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Senate Passes Online Sales Tax Bill
As previewed previously, one half of the hurdle to enforce a universal online US sales tax has now been crossed, with the Senate voting moments ago to pass a Wal-Mart backed bill 69-27 allowing states to collect taxes on out of state Internet and catalog sales. The bill would end the era of tax-free Internet shopping. During the debate, senators offered examples of consumers who examine products in stores and then shop online to avoid paying sales tax. The pretext? Why fairness of course. “This bill is about fairness,” said Senator Mike Enzi, a Wyoming Republican and co-sponsor of the measure. “It’s about leveling the playing field between the brick-and-mortar and online companies.”
However, while the bill's success in the Senate was given, its passage in the House appears far more problematic. As Bloomberg reports, "the bill goes to the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, which probably won’t act quickly or pass a measure in the same form as the Senate. Representative Bob Goodlatte, a Virginia Republican and chairman of the Judiciary Committee, has said that while he wants to address the issue, he is concerned it would create complexity for businesses and make them vulnerable to audits by multiple states."
In other words, the House's definition of fair appears slightly off from that of the Senate.
It also differs from that of online mega retailer Amazon, which apparently has decided that if it can't fight them, to at least join them, and make the life of all other online retailers who never lost as much money as it did, or had nearly as horrible operating margins as AMZN, let alone a #Ref! P/E multiple, living hell and if possible crush and bankrupt them by any ways possible just so AMZN could finally lever up its business model of becoming the biggest at any and every price.
The measure, supported by the Obama administration, attracted a coalition of backers including Best Buy Co. (BBY), Amazon.com Inc. (AMZN) and shopping mall owners. Amazon, the largest Internet-based retailer, is expanding into more states to speed delivery, which means it will pay taxes anyway.
And why not: AMZN benefited from a no sales tax policy for decades. Now that it believes it is large enough and has enough scale (if no actual profit) it may as well join the dark side.
Luckily, there are those who still believe that handing over even more private sector cash to the government to burn at will is not the best option.
Opponents maintained that the bill would unfairly burden small businesses with paperwork and audits, create a tax advantage for foreign sellers and potentially allow state-level transaction taxes. Detractors included anti-tax groups, direct marketers and senators from states without sales taxes.
“I fear that what we’re going to do is crush a lot of those start-ups, a lot of those small businesses,” said Senator Ron Wyden, a Democrat from Oregon, which doesn’t have a sales tax.
Of course you are: that is what Amazon, Best Buy, and Wal Mart are hoping for. And since by passing said bill it merey makes government even bigger, one can bet their bottom untaxed dollar, that it is only a matter of time before the House also passes a version of the bill.
Remember: it's only fair.
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Fuck Fairness
The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients, and by parts.
- Edmund Burke
Liberty is already gone
All your Internets is belong to us...(pricks!)
Enough ain't enough until enough is enough! Fuck you Uncle Sam...
Long Craigslist.
This will be another hit to the USPS revenue...
Fuck the Free World; I want Perma-Sales!
DOA in the House...just sayin.
This is how fascism works.
someone needs to tax congress please
If the IRS can already snoop into our shopping records, isn't this moot?
Fucking assholes. All of'em!
Uh, doesnt the Constitution clearly say all tax bills must originate in the House of Reps ????
You read the Constitution. You're now on a watch list somewhere.
The solution to not enough government is always more government. Love how Amazon opposed state tax until they were forced to collect it and now they think it's a great idea.
Make it only apply to businesses with locations in more than one state, or exempt small business under a certain size.
Poison Pill for Amazon et al.
Weird, I never heard this "fairness" argument with the TBTF banks.
Yep, owe your soul to the company store & .gov always gets their cut.
So are you saying the House has our backs? hahahhaha America is screwed. At least we know the monkey court will side for the people. hahahhahahha
You think? The Senate needs to have term limits (one term max) and 3 year not 6 year terms. The House always fears elections. I f***in hate the scum in The Senate.
The whole thing (congres, presidency, SCOTUS, everything) is joke anyway so I am not sure why I even bother.
The senate bill is dead this close to mid-terms, it will be bottled up in committee.
"House Speaker John Boehner plans to send the bill to the House Judiciary Committee, a senior Republican aide said. That will mean hearings ahead. The Senate uncharacteristically bypassed this step.
Judiciary Committee Chairman Robert Goodlatte, a Republican, has reservations about the legislation, including its complexity and potential impact on small businesses, a spokeswoman said.
Goodlatte has yet to schedule any hearings on it, she said."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/06/net-us-usa-tax-internet-idUSBRE9450QZ20130506
Who woulda thunk the internet high tech crowd, rascally TPer's and republicrats had so much in common inside the House ;-)
I hope Amnesty is dead too. These evil f***s in Washington Dc are evil scum.
An incremental and less draconian approach than the one you suggest might be feasible, e.g., begin by term-limiting the Senate to no more than three consecutive generations.
@ nmewn
re: "DOA in the House...just sayin."
Weren't you also one of those who thought ObamaCare was DOA at SCOTUS...
LOL! @ you still thinking one political/ideological faction is better than the other.
Yes I was. Who would have ever thought Roberts would side with an evil old stooped over bitch like Ginsberg. But it still doesn't make it proper or fair to force anyone to buy something under threat of law does it?
Hitler had laws and judges too.
Was his faction better than any other? ;-)
If I may be so bold, here's a suggested reading assignment for ya:
Our American PravdaWow, good stuff. Thanks for the link...
You're welcome. This is the part(and especially that which I've bolded) of that I thought applicable to my exchange with nmewn:
Certainly Dis...it hasn't escaped my attention that both parties are different shades of grey.
But you are no different from me, just another shade of grey, that we (you and I) can somehow get over it, even when we don't always see it the same way, says something we both want.
If a new party is to be found among the likeminded (though not always same minded people) there will have to be some hard and fast absolutes we agree on.
Two of mine are...the government can only spend what it takes (recognize the word please...it takes) in taxation and absolute recognition of firearms as a civil right, just as intended when this thing was setup.
These are both constant attacks on our present freedom & liberty and our childrens future which are used to divide us.
Long Bartertown.
More just at this point. Where is my fucking chainsaw?
You're going to see more "Flea Markets" and things like Farmers' Markets but not only for fruits but also for other items just like in Europe and in most 3rd world countries where people set up a booth and sell everything from shoes to computers to jewelry and books. The wealthy will still buy at the higher prices online but for many people the only way to, lets say buy your kid a new iPad or Chaps sweater, will be to go to one of these 'Flea Markets' and barter or pay. Maybe pawn shop business will be the place to be in the future. I don't know. Wasn't there an article on ZH today saying 22% of the EU economy is "underground?" There's a reason for it. Could it be their 18% VAT?
I see a serious, tougher, slog ahead for most Americans.....just as El Erian said last week.....but saying the obvious.
sales tax is levied on the seller for the privilige of doing business "Within" a particular jurisdiction.. How the fuck can another taxing authority from another state go after a seller who isnt in their jurisdiction?? Every online seller will have to keep track of tax rates for 9,000 taxing jurisdictions in the US...... Hopefully this goes over like Real ID.. Where everyone just looks up at the Feds and says... Fuck You!
Cash. No paper trail.
Why is it the government's job to run around "leveling the playing field" anyway?
Because the gumnut owns both the game and the field it's played on.
No, they don't.
then try your chances and see who owns what.
"Why is it the government's job to run around "leveling the playing field" anyway?"
They create level playing fields when they drop daisy cutters and napalm - - - they are very experienced in this kinda thing.
I bet Al Gore regrets inventing the internet now.....
[sarc/on]
But it only applies to businesses with sales over $1 million per year, you know, 'the rich'.
1. It will soon apply to all, since those business will now join Walfart and Worst Buy in lobbying for it to hammer everyone.
2. The online environment is one with low margins, just about anyone making a half-way decent living online has to sell $1 million+ to get by.
3. It will in time apply in all places to gold and silver, since exluding them would be 'unfair' (probably one of the most evil and mis-used words every coined).
4. The internet is the last relatively free thing on the planet. This was inevitable. Bring the crash, bring the reset, hang the responsible.
The internet WAS the last relatively free thing on the planet.
Fixed it for ya.
Bitcoin is now a relatively free thing, and hopefully 3D printing joins it.
Private wifi Internet is easy and cheap to build, but it requires people to ACT, rather than spending the whole of their lives complaining.
@BuyingSterling
"But it only applies to businesses with sales over $1 million per year, you know, 'the rich'."
LOL...yeah, the people who invest in industry! This means that banks must be lenders across the board since they're so cashed up these days....The West is rapidly becoming a 'Banking State'.
EDIT: an 'Even-More-Banking State'
I heard a very interesting interview on TragedyandHope.com recently. The particular speaker had found a very old book by an American who had taken part in the Boston Tea Party. This happened in 1773 when a bunch of Americans (known as the Sons of Liberty) dressed up as Indians and dumped tea into Boston harbor. Well we've been taught in the public 'schools' (at least years ago when they actually taught history) that the Americans were upset at having to pay the tax. Some have said the amount was insignificant and was to pay for the upkeep of the defense of the colonies. It seems the true story was that the tax was enacted at the request of those who ran the biggest multinational corporation of the time, the British East India company. They wanted the tax to be levied in order to drive their American competitors out of the tea business. The Americans were angered at their continued exploitation by the big government/big corporate insider merchantilism/cronyism system that they found themselves subjects to. For some reason those Americans didnt think their ultimate purpose in life was to be hosts to the parasites.
Sound familiar ?
I love TragedyandHope.com. Everyone should give them a look and then donate some money. I am only a fan, and not involved with the site in any way.
This happened in 1773 when a bunch of Americans (known as the Sons of Liberty) dressed up as Indians and dumped tea into Boston harbor.
Sounds like a false flag operation.
Could you imagine today? All of Boston would be shut down, people forced to stay in their home under martial law with people forced to stay inside. The Sons of Liberty would be arrested as terrorists and they would also be fined millions by the EPA for poisoning the harbor.
LOL
Poisoning Boston Harbor
Oxymoron
LMAOSOAA!
Laughing my ass off sitting on an airplane. Freddie, that was an all-timer! Well done sir!
+1
Have a safe flight. I used Bongo (?) on a flight once to connect to my desktop at the office using LogMeIn. It was crazy fast like I was sitting at my desk. I had to contort like a pretzel to see my laptop in coach seats. The AH in front wanted to snooze and put their seat back. LOL! Why can't I be a bankster with my own jet.
I am done with being groped by TSA and being irradiated like dead chicken at their checkpoints. F them! Safe travels. ;-)
AppleseedUSA.org
Rifleman patches, bitchez..
OK. Some of those states - Wyoming I think - are declaring gold to be money. This implies that one doesn't have to pay a cap gains tax if its worth in dollars went from say...$1,500...to James Turk's $11K. So what if you live in Wyoming and want to pay a non-gold money state in Wyoming's coin of the realm?
Just think about it. It makes my head hurt.
I am against this because of the non sales tax states - as in Sen Wydens's. (BTW - Wyden is a toad) get hosed. But my main reason is that it establishes the infrastructure for a national sales tax. No true Republican would vote for this for that reason alone. Of course there have been no republicans since Barry Goldwater. Maybe Reagan. Certainly not Nixon.
What did Nixon say....."We are all Keynesians now." What a little turd.
Nixon is reviled. He is reviled for the wrong reasons. He is reviled for continuing Viet Nam and Watergate. When the long shadow of history is cast, he will go down as the one who took us off the gold standard. He was a cynical little prick. BTW: I am a registered Republican - but only because the state in which I live requires one to register in a party - has to do with the primaries. And because I wanted o vote for Ron Paul in said primaries. Best vote I have ever cast. I am glad he is still active and didn't go back to Texas hang up his spurs. I hope everybody saw him on the stage with Jimmy Rogers last week. I love it when Rogers goes anti-Bernanke ballistic.....'He doesn't understand economics, he doesn't understand foreign exchange, he doesn't understand the great depression - the subject in which he professes superior knowledge. All he understands is printing money.'
Nope. Not Wyoming. Just because Wyoming state government is run by Republicans doesn't mean they have any interest in hard money, or liberty for that matter. The gold-is-money bill died very quietly in the legislative session a couple of months ago. The GOP good old boy network that runs Wyoming is a just a gang of federal government welfare teat suckers, not all that different from the crony capitalists that run many other states.
And FWIW, Wyoming Senator Enzi was a sponsor of the Internet Tax Bill, having made it one of his pet projects for several years.
Utah
It's gotten to the point that I'm ashamed to admit I'm an American.
think of this as the first stepping stone to the much desired vat tax......that is what we will use to simplify the hated sales tax mess
+500
Bingo
Just what I said in my other post. Are you my identical twin, separated at birth and lost in the hospital by an ObamaCare nurse?
+1 for re-uniting!
The other problem with this is that it (IMO) is trampling on states rights. These pathetic states should be working with each other to figure how to collect the tax. Why bother Uncle Sam about it.
When I was a young fool in college in Philadelphia, we would sometimes drive to Maryland on Delaware to get low/no tax liquor. There were several liquor stores quite close the to state lines. The PA cops would be there with their field glasses watching for you - bringing untaxed liquor back into PA is a no-no.
While i sympathize with the states trying to avoid the expanse of having cyber cops parked on the virtual border, f'em. It ain't Uncle Sugar's business. Uncle Sugar should have not even taken this matter up.
This is all about establishing the infrastructure for the national VAT.
Maybe why Amazon is in favor of it. They will get their vig the same way JP Morgan gets its for running the foodstamps program out of Bangalore.
Uncle Sugar? Odd, most of us call him Uncle Slaver.
Maybe why Amazon is in favor of it. They will get their vig the same way JP Morgan gets its for running the foodstamps program out of Bangalore.
It would be interesting to see what kind of deal Amazon might have with the IRS in such a scenario. You're right that vig could be a % take of the IRS rake...let's call it an admin fee to the 800 lb gorillla of retail...take that Walmart!....Mercantalist Whore 2.0...in your face!!
We already know Amazon is in bed with the CIA...why not the IRS too.
Fuck Amazon.
In the early 70s, Cecil County MD sheriffs arrested or actively interfered with the PA cops who crossed the state line to observe liquor buyers heading back into PA. These hard feelings between the two states remains to this day along the border.
Every summer weekend the "Pennsylvania Navy" arrives pulling boats on trailers or cluttering up the marinas on the upper Chesapeake Bay with their floating house barges and sailboats they don't know how to sail. As long as they buy lots of liquor and ice, things are cool. Someone put up a crudely rendered billboard on their property near Route 40 that was pretty clear about the situation back in that era. It said "You've enjoyed our Bay and the fishing. Now go the hell home Dutchmen!"
Yes, Cecil County is where we would go. Small world.
And yes, there were lots of "Clorox Bottles" on the upper bay. Quite disgusting actually. I sympathizew with the Cecil County folks. Of course they probably weren't complaining about the liquor sales.
Leviathan needs revenue...as it feeds, it scents those fat demand accounts and penned up 401Ks...
...and it's hunger knows no bounds...
I hear that you can by parts on Amazon now.
But you'll pay the state sales tax.
ka-POW!
These tards in the House and Senate will probably double down on dumb, and make this tax a " destination " based tax, so the poor slob seller will have to try and keep track of the tax rates of 50 states. NY state already does this by county, so if you sell to someone in NY over the internet, and you are based in NY, Then you are supposed to charge them whatever tax rate they have in the county they live in. It is insane. The accountant I have spends a lot of time performing this waste of time sales tax nonsense for his clients. It would be like Walmart having to ask you where you live before checkout, and checking your ID, and then charging the sales tax from the County that you live in. New York State has completely entered the land of crazy when it comes to sale tax for internet sales.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that NY requires online sellers to charge sales tax on both the item sold and on the shipping charges !!!!
The loss of the sales tax advantage for online sellers will make the added shipping cost a deal killer when it comes to online sales. The spillover effect will be felt at the USPS, UPS, and Fedex. I hope these idiots know what an economic shitstorm they are going to cause if this is put into law.
I live in Delaware... It don't change a thing for me....
This is just the first of many. Once DE see the free cash they will jump right in.
Could the towns around the Delaware state line set up drop shipment locations to help the MD/PA/NJ online orders?
and tempt the MD/NJ/PA citizenry to not self-report their excise tax? Surely you jest.
No. That's shit's been locked down for years. If you buy in DE and have it delivered in PA they have to collect the sales tax. You find a friend with a pickup truck and pick it up yourself.
Part of the reason DE can exist without sales tax is that they are so small geographically it's easy for residents of many surrounding states to drive in, make their purchase and drive back home again (basically your idea already exists). They don't collect sales tax revenue but their entire retail economy is significantly boosted by residents driving in from surrounding states where sales tax is high enough that they'll drive a little ways to avoid paying it.
Amazon.com does have a new distribution warehouse in Middetown, DE, however. But sales tax has little to do with why.
(PA resident who lives right on the PA/DE line)
That's exactly my point. Create drop shipment warehouses in nonsales tax states and forward the freight to a tax state. The drop shipment location is an agent, not a vendor.
You might want to Beta-test that scenario logistically by first setting up an Amish farm in the Detroit inner city.
Just to work out all the bugs first.
Q: what goes clip clop, clip clop...bang, bang...clippity cloppity, clippity cloppity?
A: Amish drive-by
Delaware also has an outrageous property tax which supports the Democratic machine that helped inflict Joe "douchebag" Biden on the country. Ever wonder why Delaware gets away with charging a toll on an interstate highway (I-95)? One of the most corrupt states in the union with almost no redeeming qualities.
Find and call your congressman here:
http://www.house.gov/
Fairness would be to make multinational mega conglomerates pay their fair share - GE, Cisco, Warren Buffet, Microsoft, Google, Face/fuckbook, GM, Ford, etc. Start there, and then we'll talk.
They just can't allow fellow humans to get a break can they. You know what will happen, people will start buying stuff from Canada websites and overseas to get the same thing that American online retailers have. Amazon is killing itself because it can't decide what it is. I bought Amazon Prime thinking it was a good idea and I'm ticked off. They don't show old series of the show but only the new ones and maybe go back to the old seasons. If they wanted to compete with Netflix, they should show everything at all times regardless of what it would cost (remember the old Amazon Amazon). They do what they did years ago and operate at a loss. When people start seeing these shows at anytime and any season at will for paying 79 dollars a year people (both HD or not), people will always go to Amazon and will also shop there too while watching their shows via the flat screen or monitor.
You want "Fairness"?
Eliminate all sales tax!
PS What The FUCK does the Federal Govt. have to do about states collecting sales tax??????
PPS FUCK bERNANKE and all his incestious cornies!!!!!
Well, I didnt even need to read the article. Of course we all knew they would pass the bill - robbery is part of the job description. We also knew they would spin all sorts of b.s. 'justifications' for passing the bill, lying is part of the job description.
Now we will be given the 'treat' of articles asking whether the House will also pass the bill. Hmmm . . . anyone want to bet against ?
I wonder how much of an impact this will make in the economy ? Afterall increased taxes do stifle economic activity.
Not that the blood suckers care a damn about that.
Well at least these assholes can be prosecuted for insider trading... wait...
Fuck you Congress!
*$#@!
I've been waiting for this day, when the government would finally step in and kill the goose. It was only a matter of time.
They not only are killing the goose, they are stomping on all the eggs and little gooslings in the nest to make sure they are also dead.
in other legislation .. it is now against the law to charter a new corporation
or to operate as a private individual
fixed it!
in other legislation, next week Congress will vote on a tax on air for every US resident
Afterall, people should 'pay their fair share' for using U.S. airspace, which is under the jurisdiction of the federal government.
There is expected to be a very heated debate between the Repubs and Dems on this issue . . . . and then they will pass it into law, . . . . as usual.
next week Congress will vote on a tax on air for every US resident
Yes, and 99.9% of them will pay it without a fight.
Obedience is the road to hell.
If this will hurt eBay I'm all for it.
it will send millions more to the electronic breadline with the elimination of etsy and ebay, how will people who get their wum pum from overseas at slave labor get gainfully employed?
Bend over, your Government loves you...
long time
Bull fucking shit.
<delete>
Reason for deletion: screw it. what else can you say about all this shit
Amazon is fucked if this passes. Their margins are razor thin.
They will get a waiver
That's the only explanation. That or they'll get a bailout... or some ``private investors`` will back them up until all other internet retail shops have closed...
Amazon is more focused on scorched earthing its competition and putting all other online retailers out of business than being profitable. It believes when it is the only online presence left it will have all the leverage it needs to boost margins. Needless to say, an idiotic business model.
Yeah. Totally insane and destructive. I don't think they can pull it off.
from now on.. we just need to grow or deposition print everything we need :-)
Pyrrhus employed the same strategy.
Amazon is trying to pull an online walmart.
Soon it will be goodbye Amazon, hello brick and mortar local guys. Not HD, walmart or Lowes.
It will be Bob's hardware selling REAL goods. Not walmarted POS junk.
pods
Can't happen soon enough.
just what bank is giving Bob a loan to buy the REAL goods?
and what factory, are you referring to, that produces REAL goods, and manages to pay a living-wage to its employees, that isnt soo strapped they have to borrow money weekly from the bank to stay open?
We could all be 'Bob' if they ever take their thumb off of silver and let it correct...
And if they keep squeezing the people, they will go to barter and exchange among themselves. Bob may not sell goods out of his storefront, but trade it for something out the back door. Human beings do what they need to survive.
There may even be the added benefit of people discovering that a lot of the stuff that Madison Ave convinced them they 'need' . . . is useless crap. We may rediscover local craftsmanship, and buying things that last, and buying things we would be proud to pass on to the next generation.
Tyler,
Same strategy employed by Wall-mart. Kill all of the small competitors in towns less than 100k.
Not to mention Starbucks, which is now as synonymous with "coffee" as Kleenex is for the tissue-thin solace of Starbucks' erstwhile competitors.
And this is Amazon's Internet neutron bomb.
Part 1: Destroy all small competitors and/or mortally wound middling rivals.
Wet Dream Endgame - Part 2: How to leverage your now dominant Internet share and superior logistic distributions (synergized by your now dominant share!) into parasitically inserting yourself into Wal-mart's brick and mortar for local delivery, on Wal-mart's dime. Let's call it a "synergistic partnership"...("mercantilist allotment"...tomayto...tomawto....)
Walmart has a worm crawling in its ear...if it doesn't realize it already....
Yeah, I think they suspect something but as habit would have it...they seek to plumb maximum margins on the backs of the weakest
http://reason.com/blog/2013/03/28/wal-marts-proposed-customer-assisted-del
It's been a race to the bottom for years. I think we finally hit it. Not many corners left to trim off.
Of course Amazon is going to charge vendors for the "service" of collecting the various states sales taxes for them, so they have a possible revenue stream there now.
As for the bill that just passed..... Clint Eastwood said it best in 'Unforgiven'. "Fair's got nothing to do with it." (OK, he actually said "deserve" not "fair" but same difference). Governments need money and they don't give a crap how they get it as long as they get it.
And the hits keep coming.
Next...they will tax free porn. Let's see AMZn try to swallow them up.
If they don't care where they get it, why not just print some moar? Don't tell me they believe that this acid trip in which we are living will end some day. Why bother with all of those fiilibusters and such nonsense. That means more time away from the mistresses.
Sales tax happens at a state level (at least currently- give it some time, though!). States can't print money or believe me, they would. Like individual countries in the Euro zone, they have to deal with cashflow problems without the aid of a printing press.
It is known.
But I'd disagree, and Tyler you're showing your age, and you're completely incorrect here.
Take a moment to look over the plans of every Amazon distribution centre (they're very deliberately identical). The people are treated as Machine Units (down to the second; much like a garment factory is calculated to the 0.001 cent ~ do a GREP on their computer attached units that track them, Slate or someone did a decent piece on how exacting their demands were through computer tracking) and the plan is obvious. If you need to know the strategy of any business, look at its internal architecture.
Amazon is counting on robots. It spent $775 million [just do a Google, ffs] on acquiring a robot company. The future does not include humans. Do the math yourself ~ what's the highest Capital Expenditure that Amazon has?
People. The future is not made of people.
Sorry Tyler, but you're wrong. Amazon has already won. Middle class people shop in malls; poverty stricken consumers click.
Who is left now? (and yes, I junked you)
Ooooo...... that's actually...... pretty persuasive. Up arrow for making me think.
Still, I think the application of technology/robots in a retail environment, while no doubt cutting overhead costs, isn't even the biggest factor. It's Amazon's SCALE that gives them their pricing leverage with vendors. Agreed, the two go hand-in-hand to a certain extent. One begets the other if only in indirect ways. But if the local mom-and-pop retail operation was given a fleet of robots for free (or all their labor was costless), Amazon would likely still bury them.
I'm not talking theory, I'm talking praxis. All of this has been planned over five years ago. As for scale. Jesus wept, did you miss Walmart and the carbon copy blight it spread all over the USA? Amazon is already balls to the wall with Walmart [look into tax code battles ~ oops! did that bill pass? Who sponsored the internet sales tax? Yep, WALMART ignoring all the butt-fucking favors it gets on zoning the entire of America to sell pointless Chinese crap]
These fuckers have no soul. They own the police, and the politicians and everything this side of beyond, and you're still wondering if this is good for you?
Rule #1: the real predators are currently sitting all confused by this bizarre acquiescent behavior and the total inability to deal with reality (you know, stuff like - OMFG fish stocks are at 10-15% of totals globally, surely they'd realize this?). The parasites are winning, and neither side has any real idea how to combat it. [Hint: we do; the issue is really about the ethics of genocide and where to draw the line. The "nice" ones want to preserve some of it; the "realist" ones want to get rid of about ~6 billion.]
It's very weird to look on humans from the outside ~ it's like watching a tiger, trapped in a cage for too long, pacing up and down, up and down and bloodying it's head against the Pyrex walls as it goes insane in a tiny cube ~ and have the observers NOT FUCKING NOTICE IT. And if the Tiger dies (hint: your economy), they just put another Tiger in there, and think it's going to end up differently, while cheering and tapping the fucking glass, while publishing "scientific" papers about how Tigers don't have a "mental space" large enough for psychosis. Oh, and they all do it for silly bits of paper, otherwise they won't get heard.
That's your species. It's not a great advertisement for survival. And I'm one of the ones on your side.
"Stranger from another planet, welcome to our hole; just strap on your guitar, and we'll play some rock n' roll. But the money's no good... just get a grip on yourself." -The Stranglers
excellent comments, Aurora. note that "them" is not individual people, it's a certain kind of organization. it's a question of size, which then leads to a lack of humanity. the soulless megacorporation, which somehow achieves sociopathic behaviour by aggregation of lots and lots of otherwise very civil employees
I don't shop at the mall or on Amazon.
I do like Rakuten, though. :-)
How many order clicks from robots can Amazon count on I wonder...
i've been following your posts Aurora, and they are all quite thought-provoking.
but, the above statement is a sweeping generalization. it's not entirely true, and i would say it becomes more true when you switch the subjects of both independent clauses.
I used to like Amazoin but they (their sellers) charge 300% higher (or more) then most other online stores.
All you have to do is look at the fee schedule. It's damned near impossible to make a dime off of items under $20, even in volume.
Consider:
You have a $20 item and by that I mean it costs $20 at Toys R Us. As a small seller, you're paying $15 wholesale by the time it gets delivered. $5 is pretty good, right? Sell 10 and you can buy a new video game or something. So you list it on Amazon for $20....and it sells. Hooray!
Amazon takes $1 flat fee right off the top. Then, they charge 15% of the final sale price. Next, you forgot to look at the shipping and thus didn't see that you were vouchered at $5, whether the customer was next door or cross country. Oh, and that voucher? They took 50 cents, plus a nickel or dime depending on whether the customer chose Parcel or Priority. And they're going to demand a tracking number, lest they unilaterally find in favor of the buyer in any kind of dispute, so there goes another buck if you don't order postage online.
So you've got this $5 margin, right?
They take their fixed fee and you have $4.
They take their 15% commission on $20 and you have $1.
They take $0.50 out of your shipping budget and you have $0.50.
That 50 cents has to cover packaging and shipping overruns. It usually costs me $6 minimum buying postage online so now you're 50 cents in the red. We haven't even paid for the box or peanuts which probably run another 50 cents between them.
End result is losing $1 on every single sale, while Amazon itself takes $4.50 of the $5 margin you thought you had. If you sell through the case, you're out $10 and Amazon has "earned" enough to buy that game you had your eye on from the beginning.
And that's under the best of conditions! It assumes they all sold from you in PA to somebody in NY or OH. What if comebody from CA ordered? Shipping there could run $12. You'd lose money hand over fist unless you accounted for it. But you can't do it the sane way, no, Amazon forces flat rates for the continental states, so you have to build it into your price which is then subject to higher commission fees too.
You'd have to push your item up to around $27 just to break even. All this time, Toys R Us is selling the same item for $20 and profiting. A couple people might pay your price for lack of local options but the majority are going to do exactly what you did and complain that sellers' prices are too high.
And now sales tax is going to be levied on top of that?
Their tax calculator is already to go in check out. I wonder if they know something we don't? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
Ebay is fighting it, Amazon is embracing it. Ebay Mom & Pops will be hit hardest. Amazon with it's infrastructure and distribution will more easily be able to cope and it won't hit their 'margins', they charge Mom & Pops or big vendors a basic rate for using their network and sales tax is just an added cost to the consumer and/or the vendor. I think Amazon could care less. Brick and Mortar outfits are crumbling and they'll still have a huge advantage on availability and selection.
Regulatory capture by any other name.
The big companies always go for moar laws, moar regs, they staff for it, have the accounting for it. Cut out the competition. Hell, they got lawyers on retainer (like Knight & Holland) as a part of doing business just waiting for the go signal.
I already shop around on Amazon, then find an online retailer not in my state to buy from. Amazon is my brick and mortar store, figuratively.
Enter Bitcoin.
If the bill says it's a percent of the sale, it could easily be extended to bitcoin. (I think.)
As if the "consumer" isn't strapped enough? LOL
Never double down on stupid.
pods
Ooooops
Shameful.
535 people and the Federal Reserve have ruined this country.
Here is another example .
There are 270 million of us and maybe 1,000 of them.
Think it through.
Revolution 2.0
dude, have you tried to TALK to anyone lately?
zombie nation. dont kid yourself. try to have a serious conversation with someone.
there could be 5 billion of us here, and none of them would want to get in "trouble", or do anything that God dosent approve of.
i, personally, cant wait for the carnage, shock, and suffering to begin.
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."
Niall Ferguson as reported here on Saturday:
The Decline of Civil Society
Lastly, the decline of civil society is most disturbing. One way to look at this is by looking at the active membership is voluntary associations which has plummeted in recent years. Americans are no longer actively involved in civil society and now depend on the government to “solve problems.”
The problem with this, of course, is that the decline of the civil society also leads to a decline in economic output. Dependency on government to solve social issues has very little economic benefit. While the rest of the world is getting better in term of building better institutions – the U.S. is getting progressively worse.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-04/niall-ferguson-%E2%80%93-great-...
Is that the same Niall Ferguson who wrote a biography on the Rothschilds and is the un-official historian for the Bilderbergs?
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/f/ferguson-rothschild.html
http://www.infowars.com/niall-ferguson-bilderberg’s-history-er-wait-economics-guru/
That Niall Ferguson?
I think you can find his pic under the entry for shill in the dictionary...if not, it should be.
Hope and Change. After the muslim was elected - people dropped charity because they went into survival mode. Tens of millions knew what he was about and how it would lead to the end.
When the system collapses, as it must, people will figure it out.
You are correct. The common man is asleep, or confused. But hyperinflation will change that right quick. The first shall be last.....
Wouldn't want to be a government official or a banker.
See France, 1789.
Yes, but I figure the the global elite have about 2.7 million of people in the US under direct control and placed in very powerful positions. It's not going to be as easy as you think, still it must be done.
It is really the Senate that is the lynchpin. Same thing in Rome. They sent the bravest off to die while they looted the country. Sound familiar?
So the senate is more of a grenade pin that will take everyone out
More like a malignant cancer to the Republic like they were in Rome.
Needs to pass the House. It will not happen. As with gun legislation it's only to make some people "feel" good.
It is the fact that millionaire assholes try this shit in the first place. Keep your hand out of my wallet and off my firearm.
Stupidfuckingcocksuckingguillotineneedingworms
Won't matter when nobody has money or a job to by shit with anyhow.
Fairness would have been wiping out brick n mortar tax. Aholes
Right. are they going to charge property taxes on online outfits as well to "level the playing field"? Intellectual property taxes?
Question is: if you buying Ag or Au online does this apply. May have to hurry up and finish my Christmas shopping.
Fairness my Denmark sandwich. There go the last few jobs in the US.
I don't live in the USSA any more, but everyone I know personally who still lives in the USSA has sworn to never purchase anything ever again from Amazon, once this interstate sales tax scam begins. Good for them.
Just watch people order from companies located in Canada, Mexico or elsewhere that are not subject to this atrocity. Yup, this will boost the US economy. NOT.
Also watch for people to start companies that let anyone have a nano-residence in Oregon, Delaware or other state that has no sales-tax. Their "family member" or "representative" or "friend" will purchase the product in the no-sales-tax-state (without sales tax), then sometime will send their property to their other home. UPS will love those guys! Go long Oregon and Delaware (Joe Biden).
Amazon, BestBuy and other traitors... your days are numbered!
Disclaimer: I used to like and frequent Amazon.
Oh, BTW, in case nobody noticed. Internet retailers need to pay UPS to ship sold goods to their customers, which approximately equals and thus offsets sales-tax. So this is not about fairness, this is about state governments stealing untold billions of dollars while destroying a significant portion of the US economy.
This bill is totally mad, not merely yet another way to squeeze money from the serfs. How insanely desperate with hunger must the govt be, to kill and eat all the chickens that could otherwise have provided them with eggs and new hens for years? As you've demonstrated, people will find inventive ways around it.
I'm glad you're out of the 'states Honest, and hope you've found yourself a nice place. I am curious but I won't ask where. If I had the funds and the sense of adventure, I'd be doing a Simon Black myself to grow avocados in Chile. :).
I used to get all my books, especially the expensive text books from Amazon, but stopped after learning about their profits going to Israeli soldiers via the Jerusalem Post. They say they stopped that relationship and they don't advertise it any more, but I know several "Friends of Israel" type of charities that get funding from Amazon still. How "Creating positive awareness of Israel" can possibly be described as a charitable exercise beats me. Nothing against jewish folks, I just can't support apartheid, illegal settlements, military occupation and the subjugation of palestinians among others things I find appalling about them.