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White House Says Ignore Facts, Assad "Likely" Behind Syrian Chemical Weapons After All
When it comes to the deep hole of lies and inconsistencies that US foreign policy is vis-a-vis Syria, it has two options: stop digging or double down. Following the earlier report by the UN that outright rejected the full blown White House propaganda push to make it seem that it was Assad's regime that was using chemical weapons as a front to stage a military incursion against a very unappealing despot, that it was the Al-Qaeda assisted and potentially US-armed rebels who had in fact been using toxic sarin gas, there was some hope that the digging would stop. Instead, the doubling down began.
The White House says it's highly likely that Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime, not the rebel opposition, was behind any chemical weapons use in Syria.
White House spokesman Jay Carney says there is certainly evidence that chemical weapons have been used. But Carney says the U.S. is highly skeptical of claims that rebels put them in play.
Indeed, when presented with fact, Carney gets highly skeptical. Recall from earlier:
Carla Del Ponte, a member of the UN independent commission of inquiry on Syria, said that testimony gathered from casualties and medical staff indicated that the nerve agent sarin gas was used by rebel fighters.
"Our investigators have been in neighbouring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated," Ms Del Ponte said in an interview with Swiss-Italian television, broadcast on Sunday.
"This was used on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities," she added, speaking in Italian.
Ms Del Ponte added that the inquiry has yet to see any direct evidence suggesting that government forces have used chemical weapons, but said further investigation was required before this possibility could be ruled out.
The above is trivial: who needs facts when you still have the world's reserve currency, and the "moral high ground"?
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Hypocrites? Try sociopaths.
They are occupied now with Cambridge big-mouth Roger Nicholson --- their new sociopath hero.
He seems to be the 12 ounce version of Michael Moore.
so, jews and Al-Qaeda are now on the same side.
or were they always?
Like on 9/11, may be?
two faces of the same evil coin
Can't say that this is what actually happened, but if I ran the Fed, had endless QE, and had a 'Global Missionary Zeal', I'd ...
Create a whole bunch of "ideological magnets" or "fly strips" to attract the populace. If you ran these magnets (fly strips), then you essentially control the bulk of potential trouble-makers. The LEA's would serve to handle the rest, if/when they popped up. Simple, effective, efficient.
But you'd have to be an extremely well-funded, creative and a devious SOB. And rather sociopathic too. Know of any people or entities who fit the bill?
p.s. If you wanted to get really cynical (and a bit paranoid), there is nothing stopping the same sociopaths from creating control-magnets for Contrarians, Libertarians and Survivalists. All the while these people think that they have a safe venue and outlet of like-minded Red-Pill people, their Blue-Pill leadership reports to Mr. Smith and The Matrix. The only safeguard to this, is to recruit over decades and generations. The way ancient societies and orders do, cause it's the only thing that works.
/s
Yes, but they're consistently inconsistent, that's got to be worth something?
Also consistent with the fine art of making something look like nothing, and nothing look like something.
Claytons, "the war you are having when you're not having a war"
I sadly feel as though we are trapped in a Monty Python skit.
Unfortunately The Matrix scoffed a few of the brown acid tabs on 9-11 and never quite snapped out of it.
What the fuck is truth good for anymore? Let's be real. The shit-for-brains sheeple don't know the difference anyway. Rule of law, morality, truth - these are all things of the past - there is no place for them in our 'brave new world'. Paraphrasing your POTUS, 'Some will say your goverment is tyrannical. Don't listen to them.' Such statements can only be compared to totalitarian failures of the past.. I weep for the future.
Then pray for comets. Not too small, not too big. Just the right size and right distribution. Paging novelists, paging novelists.
Rule of law, morality, truth - these are all things of the past
Yeah, fucking Fukuyama (CFR) "The End of History" shit they wanted us to believe.
However, it's gonna keep rolling.
Enough already. If Israel wants war with Syria and by extension Shia-dominated Iran and much of Iraq, it should declare war. Otherwise, Israeli missile and fighter-bomber attacks are nothing more than state terrorism fully backstopped by the United States.
If war means nuclear and chemical and biological weapons used by all sides, so be it. It will eventually happen anyway, so it might as well be launched now and, as is likely, involve aggressive anti-Shia states like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, whose oil fields will no doubt also suffer massive damage, and Turkey, a NATO nation, will also be drawn in and suffer its own extended civil war as a result. Even Israel, which has many sectarian divisions within its Hebrew religion, may suffer civil war after the Black Flags are unfolded and they too suffer mass casualties.
Declare war? Cowards never declare war. They want to incite war and let someone else fight it for them.
Stay out of Syria. It is not our fight.
Is there oil?...gold?.....Then it is our fight. Manifest destiny says it's our right and therefore our fight. We've conquered the west now it's time to conquer the east. It doesn't matter how many people of color we bomb the shit out of. We must have our oil damn it!
Remember the communications deputy serving Sadaam. He stated Sadaam's perspective/lies better than Carney states Obama's perspective/lies.
People get elected by stating lies and soon they can not comprehend reality if reality differs from their perspective. Pretty soon, they become a tragic comedy. Sad truth when moral relativism rules and absolute truth is terminated.
That's the FEDs military saying that (the mercenaries) and not the United States of America's military. Right now they are sort of combined. The two will separate before long.
"Look into my eyes, not around the eyes, my eyes, 3... 2.... 1...., you're under...
You will believe Assad used chemical weapons as the pretext for another
Western military intervention in a Middle Eastern country and overthrow of a government...."
Syria needs to be taken out before the real prize can be taken on - Iran. (How do you say
"encirclement" in Iranian?) And this time around all those extraordinarily lucrative oil and
gas contracts had better go to the Seven Sisters and let's not have a repeat of the cock-up
in Iraq where many of them went to Chinese and Russia companies. Hell, the Indians
may even be involved in "The Iranian Job"; that way they can finally get their hands
on some oil and gas!
In Obozo We Trust! -- Endorsed by Clarabel The Clown with two mighty HONKS from his trusty horn.
Bath House is too coked up with Reggie to pay any attention to this.
Well if it really was a red-line incident, wouldn't that mean Obama should be pro-Assad now since his Al-Qeada affilitated groups used them? Or is it just a red-line if one side used them but not the other?
Especially when they were only put at risk to begin with because of funding these guys we have been at 'war' with since 2001, but funding since the 70's.
Glass-Steagall
When you can't make an argument with facts, you make an argument with lies and let your state run media pass them on as facts.
Then you can claim the real facts are just a conspiracy theory.
I wish you Americans would wise up and fire Obama and get rid of the CIA, a terrorist oganization that makes Al Queda look like amateurs.
It is about time you had a leader that was honest.
I thought the form was to blame Assad for the Boston bombs then to start another war to boost the US National Debt ! Amazing how quiet North Korea is now, and how little is said about the Chinese taunting the Indians.
Israel should sink a US carrier and blame it on Assad. It seems to be able to command more US resources than any NATO power. I mean Israel has a PPP GDP/capita just behind France and ahead of South Korea and not far behing Japan and the UK which is amazing and the revenues of its defence industries about equal the annual US miliary aid budget
Israel already sank the USS Liberty. I communicated with one of the survivors and to be honest there was a huge coverup there.
As far as I am concerned, Israel is far from innocent and about as trustworthy as its enemies.
So, we're supporting the "rebels"...
The rebels used chem' weapons...
Does that mean we just crossed the "red line"???
Does that mean we can attack this administration and their handlers with a military coup?
Ah yes, who to believe, the liars at the WH or the liars at the UN...
It's "lather, rinse, repeat" with these guys. Thing is, they think we're stupid enough to believe this crap, which is an even bigger problem.
Nobel should come out with the Pinochio Award and exchange it for Obama's peace prize.
And don't forget the UE/NATO Nobel Peace Prize!
Willful ignorance? Or deliberate massacre?
‘Flaky’ Syrian Chemical Weapons Evidence Does Not Deter Neo-Cons
Posted by Daniel McAdams on May 6, 2013 | The LRC Blog:
Col. Lawrence Wilkerson appeared on the Young Turks program late last week to reveal that the "varying degrees of confidence" with which Defense Secretary Hagel proclaimed that the Syrian government had used chemical weapons was in fact based on "really flaky" evidence, according to Wilkerson's sources in the intelligence community.
"There is no way I would say my red line had been crossed and start something serious in terms of US intervention based on this very flimsy evidence," said Wilkerson, an academic advisor to the Ron Paul Institute.
Now we hear that, according to UN investigator Carla Del Ponte, it appears that the rebels rather than the government had used the banned weapons. Hardly a surprise, as they are the ones to gain by sparking a US/NATO attack.
Nevertheless, the interventionists for some reason never suffer criticism or loss of reputation when their lies are exposed. They will turn on a dime from "Assad used chemical weapons we must go in" to "the rebels in Syria have used chemical weapons we must go in," expecting no one to notice.
Case in point is today's NY Times op-ed by Bill Keller -- the same Bill Keller who cheered for the 2003 US war on Iraq, defended the lies of media-Goebbels Judith Miller, and wrote a love note to neo-con prince Paul Wolfowitz, calling him the "Sunshine Warrior".
In today's piece, Keller tells us to ignore the fact that he helped lie us into war with Iraq, blithely calling it "our ill-fated adventure," as if it were some sort of Sunday drive gone wrong.
Best to forget the millions whose lives have been destroyed in the war he pushed -- because he is back without shame to promote the next one.
Although he "admires" President Obama's caution about intervention overseas, he warns that:
"[I]n Syria, I fear prudence has become fatalism, and our caution has been the father of missed opportunities, diminished credibility and enlarged tragedy...in contemplating Syria, it is useful to consider the ways it is not Iraq."
Translation: "It'll be different this time...honest."
The "flaky evidence" that Col. Wilkerson cites above, is absolutely sufficient for Keller and his ilk.
But Obama had better act fast, as the interventionists' patience is wearing thin.
He writes:
"The administration is now preparing contingency plans along those lines in the event that Assad’s use of chemical weapons forces our hand. Why wait for the next atrocity?"
Translation: "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."
Keller finishes with a line that should be carved in stone on the grave of neo-conservatism, as more than anything it encapsulates the mendacity of the warmongers:
"Whatever we decide, getting Syria right starts with getting over Iraq."
Just get over it. Stop complaining. Start another war.
This is neo-conservativism laid bare.
(Thanks to James Porter for additional comments).
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/137274.html
Can we use the same anti-terror laws to prosecute government officials who have funded the terrorists in Syria and put them all in Gitmo? We've arrested people for a lot less so why not arrest the current administration?
The president himself is not immune from prosecution - it only took lying about wanking with a cigar to put Clinton away, right? I would be delighted to see our own foreign secretary, William Hague in prison for life.
You mean that British politician who said he was influenced by the "compassionate conservatism" ideology of George W. Bush, who’s been a member of Conservative Friends of Israel since he was 15 years old, and who confirmed in 2010 that he had "occasionally" shared a hotel room” with 25-year-old Christopher Myers, a history graduate he’d employed as a parliamentary special adviser? That William Jefferson Hague?
Yes, I think he's a fitting candidate to enjoy life prisonment with the rest of the neo-con terrorists.
But, whether he meant it or not, I agree with Hague's warning in January that prospects for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are almost dead if Israeli voters returned Netanyahu's hardline government to power - which they did, albeit weaker.
"There is a clock ticking with potentially disastrous consequences for the peace process," he said, warning that Israel was losing international support because it was expanding Jewish settlements in occupied territory (an enormous understatement, of course).
But, then again, look at whose page he's on when it comes to supporting the Syrian rebels.
What a guy!
Thanks for the info on the bastard. Now his behaviour makes perfect sense.
So, basically like Iraq's WMDs. 3rd parties said no WMDs, common sense and logic said no WMDs and the Bush admin said WMDs. Trust those in the white house and the U.S government in general though. They never lie unless of course when they do but when that happens it was just a lone incident...that continually happens.
Some news from United Nations website (As expected):
http://www.un.org/apps/news/region.asp?Region=Middle+East
In a statement, the International Commission of Inquiry on Syria said it wished to clarify that is has not reached any final findings on the use of chemical weapons and “as a result, the Commission is not in a position to further comment on the allegations at this time.” !!!
That sounds just like Hans Blix 11yrs ago. I've seen this movie before. The WH response was also exactly the same with Bush.
Also de UN is corrupted to the core. Too bad.
If I were Assad, I wouldn't take ANY retaliatory action. I'll take my case to the La Haya Internatinal Court of Justice.
Yes, I Know, you can't trust that court either, but nodoby could ignore the very act of goig to the ICJ.
Hadn't considered that one. I like it - sort of 'the best defence is offence' strategy and way unexpected.
Well, it's as corrupt as all large organisations paid with other people's money, and it's only "bad" or "good" dependent on the whether their results tally with Washington.
As I said in another post and the number one reason why they can get away with all this shit . . .
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-05/syria-declares-israel-attack-ac...
Here is the title of a "news report" on the Israeli attack in our local English paper in Jewish-dominated and Jewish-owned Buenos Aires called the Buenos Aires Herald (BA is the home to one of the largest Jewish populations in the world):
Israel to Assad: air strikes did not aim to help Syria rebels
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/130428/israel-to-assad-air-stri...
You cannot make this shit up! Oops, of course you can if you own the mass indoctrinating media.
Hey, Syria and President Assad: We, the Righteous Jews and Chosen People of Planet Earth, didn't mean to weaken you by bombing the shit out of your military research facility this weekend or that attack last week, using radioactive "depleted" uranium. We only did this wonderful service for your good health and well-being . . . and "in an effort for Assad to save face"!
And to our compatriot CEOs and managing directors in our Jewish mainstream media: Thank you so much for covering up our asses once again!
I asked a Palestinian friend of mine, an engineer, why the animosity between Arabs and Jews. There were two reasons, the Palestinians were upset they were kicked out of their homes after the State of Israel came to be and the second reason was, "If they are God's chosen, what about the rest of us? What are we, dirt?"
The rest of us are Goyim and a few are useful Goyim.
When one's ethnic group has been living in open-weather concentration camps for the past 60+ years, the conditions of which are 10 times worse than any of those depicted in the perennial holocaust-reeducation feature films, one might just be a bit hostile and antagonistic. Wouldn't you say?
In reality, the "Palestinians" (Arabs) were asked to leave by the Arab dictators because they were going to destroy Israel during the 1948 War. Israel offered their return if their Arab slave masters signed a peace treaty at the Rhodes armistice talks, but it was refused. They have since used the Arab refugees (aka "Palestinians") as propaganda purposes so that people like you will spread it.
Your "Palestinian" friend can't be blamed for believing such lies however. It is what they are taught from birth. That and Jews are pigs and dogs that need to be killed.
This comes as no surprise.
There will soon be a new round of Benghazi hearings.
This round is sure to make Obummer and Hillary look particularly bad.
Within those hearings it will be revealed that arms from Libya were being sent to Syria, via Turkey, to arm the same groups they have just decided to formally start arming.
The entire operation was being run out of the Benghazi "mission", which in fact was not a diplomatic facility at all.
One of the best ways to make these hearings a non-issue is to start another war.
Perhaps throw in a few domestic false flags here and there to really take people off the balance.
Obama's Al-Qaeda boyz now using chemical weapon Sarin, and he's blaming Assad for being a terrorist?
Obama is so pro-gay he can't even keep his own propaganda straight.
Bachi-baz BitcheZ.
Assad? Oh I thought you said Mossad. My bad
Just because I don't believe Obama, does not mean I believe the UN.
You are right. However the UN tried to get George W to hold off his invasion of Iraq and the administration basically ignored it. The UN is no prize. However, it is between the Syrians, a domestic dispute, that no other sovereign should be involved with.
almost everyone has forgotten that the un inspectors were recalled from iraq just before they finished their quest for wmds in iraq and reported there were none.
as a balance of creibility between 2 .orgs with very little credibility the scales tip towards the un especially in light of the fact that the report of assad using gas originated with israel, who has such negative credibility that the sky is no longer blue over tel aviv if israel says it is. i read a report somewhere that usa intelligence thought the evidence of assad using chemicals was dodgy, also.
so the back door channels are embarrassing israel and obama tentatively supports them. i would trust the game in the back door channels. israel is being set up.
"Pentagon to bomb Whitehouse after concrete evidence emerges that Obama-sponsored Syrian rebels used sarin gas."
If Syrian planes bombed Israel's Ramat David Airbase because it houses US-supplied weaponry, what would the appropriate Israeli reaction be?
They call it "war" for a reason. There are no rules.
What difference does it make if chemical weapons are used, or a flame thrower, or shrapnel or a nuke? Once a person is dead, he or she is dead.
War demeans the human race.
I think we are past the point where old-fashioned black vs. white, good vs. evil, false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideals, are useful. On the contrary, that old-fashioned way of thinking is now our worst enemy, because we DID change the way we thought about things like physics and chemistry. Therefore, we CAN make weapons of mass destruction.
Here are couple of often quoted truisms from Albert Einstein:
http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking.
... the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind."
The most profound place to begin thinking differently is within the basic concepts about energy systems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy
Our basic idea about ENTROPY became backwards.
The history of science had an ARBITRARY minus sign inserted into the entropy equations, which reversed the meaning, or the orientation, of that idea to all other ideas. Since thermodynamics was later developed into information theory, (because information is power,) we have been developing all of our basic philosophy of science, as far as it relates to everything else around it, in profoundly BACKWARDS WAYS!
That expresses is the growing paradox that plagues our civilization, which is growing worse every day. Progress in science and technology is NOT being matched by progress in political science. There is deep reason for that, namely, the oldest and best developed social science was warfare, and success in warfare was based on deceits.
This news story demonstrates the historical pattern of the biggest bullies pumping out their bullshit to double down on their deceits, in order to start more wars.
Those wars serve the established social pyramid systems, which were primarily based upon debt slavery, but which have been astronomically amplified in size by technology to become debt insanity, backed up by the threats of causing deaths to degrees which are so utterly insane and irrational that they can not be imagined.
However, there are NO possible solutions to these problems by going backwards to old-fashioned ideas about the "truth."
Assuming enough of us survive science making it possible to create substances like sarin gas, etc., ... the only ways that we might be able to do that is IF our political science goes through paradigm shifts comparable to what have happened in chemistry, in order to make it possible to create such chemical weapons. Chemistry no longer thinks in ways which are remotely like believing in "Earth, Air, Water, and Fire," as the four elements, (although it has abandoned belief in the fifth element.)
Our chemistry has become advanced in many ways, which required profound paradigm shifts with respect to our BASIC understanding of chemistry. Those are what enabled the technology to make chemical weapons. However, the ways that we think about chemistry are totally backwards, because the history of that chemistry stuck an ARBITRARY minus sign into the entropy equations, which are at the root of understanding everything else which transpires in chemical processes.
The mathematics itself says that all measurements for power and information have negative values, not positive values. That kind of NeoPytagorean insight allows us to work toward creative synthesis of ancient mysticism within postmodernizing sciences. Thereby, the "fifth element" begins to be able to be brought back into chemistry, because after we go through the paradigm shift to see that all measurements of power and information always actually give negative values, then power and information are perceived as relative forms of illusions, due to relative SUBTRACTIONS, which are dependent upon relative definitions of subtracted parts, across which boundaries there are energy being taken, which processes are defined in the English language as ROBBERY.
There are a number of basic scientific axioms which then apply throughout "economics:"
Reality is always organized systems of lies operating organized robberies.
The debt controls are always backed up by the death controls.
The monetary system is always within the military system.
Money is always backed by murder.
Throughout the history of warfare, false flag attacks have been very common. It was typical for the biggest bullies to project the blame for things onto someone else, in order to start a fight, which those biggest bullies believed they could benefit from starting. This news story is about yet another of those kinds of false flag attacks being blatantly promoted ...
The government of the USA has paradoxically become dominated by the people who are the best at being the worst. The government of the USA is run by the best professional liars and immaculate hypocrites that money can buy. However, there are NO good resolutions to those problems by going backwards towards the false fundamental dichotomies, with their related impossible ideals about finite forms of "truth" or "justice."
OF COURSE, the government of the USA operates through legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. HOWEVER, most of the comments made on Zero Hedge reflect only the first level of recognizing that is the actual social situation which we are in ... BUT, then, most of those comments still recommend various kinds of impossible ideals, dependent upon false fundamental dichotomies, as the way to resolve that runaway social insanity situation of being dominated by War Kings directed by Fraud Kings.
"... the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind ..."
Metaphorically, as well as literally, to the degree that "literal" is ever possible, in a world where all information and power have negative values, not positive values:
Energy is spirit. Entropy is satan.
We should develop paradigm changes in our basic ideas about human ecology and political economy, such as I have hinted at above. It is only to wake up to the first superficial level to recognize that our governments are usually being arrogantly dishonest. To wake up more requires that we go through profound paradigm shifts in our understanding of political science, and especially in our understanding of militarism.
That is acutely necessary in the context of the topics covered on the Zero Hedge Web site because, obviously, the monetary system is backed up by the military system. Militarism is the self-organizing and self-justifying supreme ideology. Where we need profound paradigm shifts more than anywhere else is with respect to understanding the murder systems. That is constantly becoming more imperative due to more progress through paradigm shifts in sciences such as chemistry, that are making chemical weapons possible, which are orders of magnitude worse than anything else that existed before in human history. However, such paradigm shifts in politics are in a head-on collision with every established social system on the planet, since those are all the localized versions of their biggest bullies' bullshit, since the dominant social stories are ALWAYS necessarily some systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies.
The problems we have can not be resolved by going backwards to old-fashioned false dichotomies used to still understand those problems. The future solutions must continue to be dynamic equilibria between different systems of dishonesty, backed by violence. We need to develop a more scientific spirituality, "... in the heart of mankind ..."
I suggest that that could be developed through recognizing the minus sign inserted in the entropy equations has arbitrarily inverted the meaning of everything that we understand as an energy system. The biggest bullies have power based on lies. Throughout the history of the development of sciences, there has been a constant pressure to pervert science to serve the biggest bullies, which means there was constant pressure to use technologies to get better at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence. While the biggest bullies continue to double down on their deceits, to start more wars, to back up their debt slavery systems, and especially while that is being astronomically amplified in size to become debt insanities, backed by death insanities, we need to go through more levels of waking up, no only to the first level of facts, that those bullies are lying, but also waking up to the deeper and deeper levels of lies regarding how the ways we think are backwards.
We can never have any better solutions to these kinds of problems unless we understand them better. However, understanding them better means we must go through profound paradigm shifts in political science. As our technologies become trillions of times more powerful, through weapons of mass destruction, able to be made due to progress in physics, chemistry, and biology, etc., going through equally profound paradigm shifts in political science constantly becomes a greater and greater emergency philosophical debate!
(Of course, within the current worlds which are almost totally dominated by the biggest bullies, any such philosophical debate is still mostly relegated to the fringe of the fringe of the fringe of our civilization. But nevertheless, what I have been saying is still theoretically valid, even though I agree that it appears to have no practical political point, at the present time.)
And in the "heart of mankind" there resides love or hate, good or evil, don't they?
"lies in the heart of mankind."
There is either truth, or lies and delusion. No middle ground.
My view, Mad Cow, is that there is nothing but "middle ground!" Everything we know is necessarily some relative illusions. There is no objective "truth," and there never can be. The inherent limits to measurement make it impossible to have any finite "true" statement which is both complete and consistent at the same time.
As I suggested above, the history of science, especially in mathematical physics, has logically driven us past ever being able to have any finite system of understanding which is the "truth." There is nothing that human beings can do but always live in the existential "middle ground," amongst different systems of lies and delusions.
It is profoundly unscientific to believe that it is possible to have any finite system of understanding which is perfect truth. One of the most important aspects of the advancement of the paradigms of science is that ideal of perfect clockwork truth had to be left behind, as being innately impossible, due to the inherent limits to measurement, which must exist in principle.
I understand that this physical universe is flawed, and math can't explain it. I will still strive for the truth however, even if I am deluding myself in the effort. ;)
I don't quite follow. It seems to me that world is following the second law of thermodynamics, it is certainly becoming more chaotic, if you want to use that as a metaphor for entropy. Are you saying that entropy is order? entropy is evil?
I suppose if we are moving toward a New World Order that could make sense.
Well, cherry picker, and The Joker,
I am attempting to move beyond the superficial psychology of "love vs. hate" or "good vs. evil" etc. ... I am attempting to provide more of an energy systems approach to the ecological selection pressures which have selected for different conceptions or ideas about "love, hate, good or evil." The primary problem has been that successful deceits were the preeminent selection pressure during the human history of conflicts. Those who where the best at being deceitful, and backing that up with destruction, became the War Kings, that then sustained the development of the sovereign powers of states, which then were taken over by the Fraud Kings.
Thus, we have a monetary system within the military system. That always existed, from back in the days of sticks and stones, but has gotten amplified through swords and spears, to rifles and cannons, to NOW when there is an abundance of weapons of mass destruction, such as that sniff of sarin is enough to kill.
Obviously, love and hate, or good and evil, are within the "heart of mankind." However, our understanding of all other energy systems has gone through dramatic paradigm shifts in physics, while not so much in psychology, and that is especially so because psychology manifests inside of the context of human ecology, but human ecology is dominated by militarism, or the established systems of death controls, (which in turn back up the debt controls, and all the rest of human economic activities.) Therefore, our understanding of psychology and morality is profoundly unscientific, since any more scientific understanding of human beings ends up always in direct conflict with the dominant social stories being maintained by whomever are the biggest bullies in that society.
Therefore, our ideas about love and hate, or good and evil, tend to be developed in a free floating way, since they are deliberately not connected to the social conditions that surround them, because, whenever we more scientifically attempt to do that, we are always discovering that human beings were operating as robbers in their environment, and that the richest and most powerful human beings tended to be the best robbers. However, precisely because the biggest bullies ARE the biggest bullies, their bullshit social stories always end up dominating the society that they manifest in. Therefore, the dominant social stories always end up being hypocritical.
Governments are always the best organized gangs of criminals, and biggest terrorists. Those who control government the most (which these days tend to be the banksters) are the supreme gangsters. There are no fundamental dichotomies between people. On the contrary the government is always simply the best organized gang of criminals, which, however, get to dominate their society with well-developed bullshit regarding the basic social facts.
With the Internet Reformation rapidly underway (for however long that might last), more people can easily and quickly learn about FALSE FLAG ATTACKS. Those were always standard ways that governments, and the people who most controlled those governments, developed justifications to start the wars that they wanted to start. The differences today are that the threat of destruction from such wars constantly risks the use of atomic bombs, which are trillions of times more powerful than any time before in human history, while, the electronic communication systems allow millions of people to check out alternative news sources, (IF they want to) that enable them to discover that the official stories they are being told are LIES. Clearly that process of millions and millions of people waking up, and becoming more aware that their governments have been lying to them, has profound political consequences ... which so far are as yet unknown ...
What I was writing about in my comment above touched upon the topics of how to cope on deeper and deeper levels with discovering that our whole society is almost totally dominated by legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which primarily take the forms of MOAR privatized fiat money as debts, which runaway away at the same time as MOAR wars based on deceits are started ...
Most of the people who write or read on Zero Hedge are well aware of those trends ... However, I am attempting to push all of those kinds of perceptions on through to more profound paradigm shifts, which are mostly based on taking much more seriously what the physics, chemistry, and biology, etc., are telling us! What I am saying is that time and space do not actually exist. Energy exists, as it has boundaries in time and space. The distribution of energy in time and space is what we call entropy.
Of course, everything I am saying ends up being similar to the transcendental poetry spoken by ancient mystics, throughout time immemorial. IF we take the special theory of relativity seriously, which we should do, because atom bombs go boom, then matter is a form of energy. Moreover, space and time are relative, and at the speed of light, i.e., for pure energy, there is no distance between things, while time is forever. Those are the basic ideas behind WHY atomic bombs go BOOM! Furthermore, as one goes deeper into fields like quantum mechanics, the world gets stranger and stranger, and appears to become more and more like the transcendental poetry spoken by ancient mystics.
Therefore, one can generate very different kinds of notions about morality, or good vs. evil. For instance, when we use the analogy of good and evil to light and dark, we encounter a metaphysics that could be modified by the physics that it goes beyond. Namely, dark does not exist. Light exists as a form of energy. Darkness does not exist in itself. Of course, the common language used to talk about this is full to the brim of contradictions, but nevertheless, ideally we should attempt to up-date our morality by having a metaphysics which continues to attempt to be consistent with our physics.
Metaphorically, the supreme good would be infinite white light, which was all colours simultaneously. However, such a white light would be impossible to experience. We can only experience colours, which are some black mixed with the white, in a hyper-complicated way, whereby the various shades of grey could be an infinitely different set of possible colours.
The same metaphor applies to heat, or sound. Cold does not exist in itself. Silence does not exist in itself. Temperature and noise have unitary mechanisms to scientifically explain their manifestations, the same as light, as a form of energy, has a unitary mechanism to explain how it works.
What I am suggesting is that our basic ideas about energy systems repeat everything that human beings have been saying about good and evil for as long as we have been telling each other stories. Meanwhile, our abilities to tell ourselves stories through science and technology went through a series of profound paradigm shifts, while our social stories were caught and stay trapped within the context of them being dominated by the biggest bullies' bullshit.
Therefore, we ought to try to apply unitary mechanisms to understand political science. BUT, when we try to do that it becomes obvious that governments simply are the biggest and best organized gangs of criminals, and that they can not be anything else. Therefore, there is nothing surprising about discovering that governments have been routinely engaging in false flag attacks, to have excuses to start wars. It is not surprising to comprehend that our financial system is fundamentally fraudulent, since the best organized gang of criminals, the bankers, were able to take control over governments, in order to legalize their supreme crime of being able to create money out of nothing, as debts, while continuing to have a strategy to start wars, as necessary, to keep that system able to grow bigger.
However, what is different with my ways of talking about these phenomena is that it makes it more theoretically possible to work out better dynamic equilibria between the different systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies. However, right now we are STUCK in the insane rut of the biggest criminals, with weapons of mass destruction, brazenly lying that they are the "good guys" while the others are the "bad guys."
Anyway, to try to answer your question, The Joker, I am NOT saying that entropy is order. I am saying that the concept of evil and the concept of entropy overlap to the degree which they are practically the same. In that view, then energy is spirit. In that way, God is the Universe, in the sense that the Universe is energy. Of course, as our understanding of energy systems can evolve, and perhaps qualitatively change, in profound, paradigm shifting ways which we have not yet gone through, our current ideas about energy are NOT the last word about infinity. However, within the world that we do relatively know about, such as the world of chemistry, there are lots of profoundly different paradigm shifts that have taken place, which, in turn have made awesome new technologies possible, including the creation of various weapons of mass destruction, like poisonous gases worse by orders of magnitude than any other poisons that previously existed in human history.
I am suggesting that we should be changing our politics by going through profound paradigm shifts, just like we already did in other sciences, such as chemistry. Indeed, it is imperative we do that precisely because we now have the runaway insanity of weapons of mass destruction being used in false flag attacks, to justify perhaps using worse weapons of mass destruction!
I am saying, quite appropriately to The Joker, that the kind of paradoxical transcendental poetry that ancient mystics were fond of using returns when we try to broaden our understanding of energy. After, what does it really mean if energy is infinite, and neither is created, nor destroyed, but always only transforming???
How does the concept of entropy define that energy as distributed in time and space? Empirically, it looks like we are living in an exploding universe, where everything is fire. Life is a fire, which has all the problems of being able to spark more fires, which would need more fuel. That is basically what economics is about. Clearly, putting those fire out (relatively speaking) is extremely important, and the central issue with respect to controlling those fires.
Warfare becomes extremely paradoxical, since it is the largest scale manifestation of one system of fires putting out other systems of fires. Obviously, what I am saying is that we are all one energy. We are all ultimately the same fire. Biologically, we all speak the same DNA code, and so on and so forth. However, we are deeply divided according to having different styles and rates of transforming the same energy. Clearly, we have the runaway paradox of advances in science enabling us to have weapons which are trillions of times more powerful, but the purposes those weapons are used to advance are the same old-fashioned big bullies' purposes, which are primarily old-fashioned bullshit. Furthermore, most of the controlled opposition to those bullies still operate within the same systems of understanding as those bullies also do.
We are necessarily evolving towards some New World Order. Indeed, basic English language tells us that we must necessarily always be transforming towards some kind of New World Order. To be against there being some kind of New World Order would amount being against English grammar.
The world is changing, and there is nothing constant except the power to change, which is energy. However, the ways that those flows happen are due to their structures in time and space, which are all of its entropic limits, which govern the probabilities on how that energy flow will happen in the future. What I am saying is that human realities are always organized systems of lies operating organized robberies. We can not define any parts that we subtract from the Whole, which do not then automatically have all the boundaries which we thereby defined them to have. Through the means of that kind of language, I am attempting to speak about the problems we are having more and more, due to progress in all other sciences not being matched by progress in political science.
However, like I said, doing that adequately takes us through tunnels of infinite deceits, since any and all governments are always going to be based on some systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. Right now, those are the dynamic equilibria of those things that can be gotten away with. What could be gotten away with is changing fast, since millions and millions of people are waking up, relatively speaking, to the realities of false flag attacks, and therefore, are not so easy to for the government to trick and fool as before.
Waking up enough to the realities regarding social pyramid systems would drive us beyond Neolithic Civilization, into developing some Translithic Civilization. Right now, we are watching the runaway social insanities of weapons of mass destruction being used to advance the social pyramid systems in ways which are potentially almost omnicidal. The past successes of false flag attacks no longer looks quite so successful, because the existence of Web sites like Zero Hedge is contributing to those kinds of huge lies backfiring, instead of working, as those lies used to more easily do in the past ...
I am merely attempting to point towards where any such Translithic Civilization may go, as a better New World Order than the one that the current crop of ruling classes are driving us towards, which they are still relatively able to do, because enough people are still being tricked by the lies ... At some point, within an advancing philosophy of science, the "truth" itself is no longer what people used to think it was. Indeed, as I said, since our basic mainstream concept about entropy is BACKWARDS, pretty well everything we think is being thought within an overall Bizarro Mirror World, since our governments are the biggest criminals, and worst terrorists ... while, so far, we have no effective means to evolve those towards better dynamic equilibria ...
Everyone wants to speak of 'solutions', but I don't see any in all that. The most salient fact in all this is that the vast bulk of humanity have drone-ish minds that give themselves over willingly to be programed by the State. They aren't going to do anything the State doesn't want them to do for as long as the state looks 'legit'. So the State spends a LOT of time trying to look really legit. And you of course don't have to be legit in order to look legit.
And this works very well, and much too easily, shockingly easily.
So 'change' is not going to come to them, it can only come to you, assuming that's even possible, and in no one else, whatsoever.
As for a solution, it is quite unimpressive and stark; adapt or die ... and you will do that ... both.
And that's how the 'problem' is ALWAYS 'solved'.
I'm not a psychologist, but my wife is and I hope I don't do her a disservice here but, psychology for many years has been behind "scientifically" until the last few decades whereupon it has now become more based on chemical reactions of the brain. The science of psychology is evolving rapidly as we learn more about the brain.
Nature doesn't selectively discriminate between love and hate and good and evil. It selects against behaviors or traits that are not successful in passing on DNA. In some cases that may be love, in some it may be hate. In some cases it may "good", in some it may be "evil". None of those predominate the other. I don't believe in God so I don't equate good and evil with morality. I view it in more a biological perspective. My 5 year old daughter always things like "cats are evil cause they kill birds". I explain, cats are not evil, cats have to eat too. Snakes and spiders and lions are not evil, they are survivors. They eat, and when they eay they usually eat the weak. In doing so, they make the rest of their prey strong. There is no good, and there is no evil, there is only survival and the fittest survive. If those in charge have found a way to cheat the system then they are survivors. They are the sneaky copulaters. Like male lions killing the young of a female lion. Are they evil, or are they increasing their reproductive success? Like Element says below, adapt or die.
The psychologicl paradigm shift, in the empirical study, is happening faster than you think. In the applied world, as you speak sociologically, there are too many distracted dummies to ever be able to keep up. They are the weak and they will be selected against in the long run.
The political paradigm shift, I don't see happening anytime soon. It's a nice to dream the impossible dream. The world would have to start from scratch. Maybe. Maybe some movement could be made in this direction by eliminating the lobbyists and campaign funding, practically speaking. We are so far beyond that point now that something radical has to happen. In order for politics to have a paradigm shift, the current political landscape would have to be overthrown, impeached, or jailed for treason. In any case it would need to drastic. That's not out of the realm of possibility as it has happened in the past. Problem is there are so many sheep and freeloaders it would be extremely difficult to do that through the court system, not to mention the corruption of the court system. That's a tough one. Reset, I say. You are speaking philosophically about political paradigm shift. You are speaking to the ideal. I'm afraid that would take more time, to change over time, the culture of politics, than we have. We are at a breaking point, the time is past for paradigm shifts. The time is nigh for action.
Interesting, your basis is that energy is change, and so we must change the energy flow in order to invoke change. It's interesting because evolution is change. Ergo energy (power to change) = evolution. The world has been changing since the world began. I don't agree that the human realities are always organized systems of lies operating organized robberies. Humans are part of nature and nature is not always organized. Some events happen randomly such as mutations or meteor strikes. There are different means to be reproductively successful and most critters, humans also being a critter in nature, do what they can to survive. I hop back and forth across the fence of whether or not the world is over-populated, and usually lean towards yes. Look around and it seems obvious. Like Mr. Smith said, we are more easily classified with a virus than we are with mammals. We don't live in balance with nature anymore. We are approaching K. When we hit K, we will crash. The only reason we have come close to K is because we interfere with natural selection, because humans are ignorantly afraid of death (also the reason they invented God). The TPTB know we are approaching K (the critical threshold) and that is why they are doing what they are doing. If you were one of the TPTB would you rather have a random population crash which was indiscriminate or a controlled population crash where you could ensure your survival?
I'm one beer over the line right now and forgot my point. Wish I had a doob so I could keep up with you. Good talk anyway.
What's the bottom line? I don't fucking know. Those in control have the power to control natural selection, to control who live and who dies, who is successful and who isn't. That's a fucking lot of power, never seen in 100,000 years of evolution. If you think a paradigm shift is going to change that then that paradigm shift better come in the form of some rebellion like has never been seen before on this planet.
Can't believe it
http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/IDF-complains-to-UN-over-Syrian-morta...
Have faith, the people are waking up.
I was wondering how the WH would press on after the UN report. To their credit, I never would've guess they'd just ignore it. Bravo!!
If I lived over there, then there are things far worse then chemical attacks that I'd fear. If cornered, they could turn to biological weapons. That's why I would not push any powerful enemies (Iran) too far.
Eventually, someone will -- because the War-Whores don't know when to quit, and their political masters are even bigger Whores to the Banksters and Special Interests. Bibi and Obama think they can 'manage' or 'contain' the sitution. But what if they can't? Then what? Can we join them in their bunkers? MFers!
It might be prudent to hedge and plan accordingly: ABC defense.
Their shit is endless.
"You're either wit us or again us...."
GWB, Jr.
Nuclear Weapons Used By Israel On Syria?
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jimstonefreelance.com has a detailed analysis on the massive explosion(s) in Syria at approx 2 am Sunday. The details continue at his site.
May 6, 2013
I was blown offline to prevent this from being posted. I am back, for who knows how long . . . . Analysis of the video from Syria proves it to be a nuclear air burst beyond all doubt.Permalink
The referenced capture is from the video linked below. If you cannot get that exact frame to pause well enough to be captured, it is because your computer is not able to handle the distraction of the pause button while playing video - pull the video into an editor to grab the frame if this happens
It is fairly easy to prove the blast was a nuclear air burst with terms anyone can understand.
Many people said the blast could not have been nuclear because the color was wrong. But a frame analysis of the exact frame that captured the initial blast proves the camera maxed out in all 3 color channels, which by itself proves the blast was nuclear. Further analysis proves the camera captured more blue than any other color. The following eyedropper sample of the explosion from an un edited frame capture proves the camera went to 255 in all 3 color channels across a majority of the frame, which is the maximum value a camera can record, or pure white.
..........continues
Wow, maybe if you tell Alex Jones he can add it to his long list of fact finding missions.....ROFL
"If you go down in the woods today
You're sure of a big surprise"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOWFV55hxlo
Probably has been mentioned, but it is highly suggestive that within days of the meeting between Mr "Big Ears" Potatus and the jpEnronMorganGoldmanChaseBuffetEtc coven of richer than thou hags, Bibi bombs assad. Quid Pro Quo, eh Clarice?
We don't know but a fraction of whats goin down behind closed vault doors.