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Americans Convinced Gun Homicides Soar Despite Actual Plunge In Gun Crimes

Tyler Durden's picture


In yet another example of the massive gap between the American people's perception of what is going on around them (whether by propaganda channels or simply cognitive bias) and the actual reality, Reuters reports that while gun-related homicides are down 39% from the 1993 peak, only 12% of people believe that gun crimes have fallen. Non-fatal firearm crimes declined by 69% to 467,300 in the same period but 56% of Americans believe that gun crime is higher now than it was 20 years ago, the Pew Research Center said its poll showed. The dichotomy between record food stamp usage (and non-employment) and multi-year highs in consumer sentiment comes to mind - we wonder which is more 'real'.

Highlights of the report:

  • Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011.
  • Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011.
  • For both fatal and nonfatal firearm victimizations, the majority of the decline occurred during the 10-year period from 1993 to 2002.
  • Firearm violence accounted for about 70% of all homicides and less than 10% of all nonfatal violent crime from 1993 to 2011.
  • About 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun from 1993 to 2011.
  • From 1993 to 2010, males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 had the highest rates of firearm homicide.
  • In 2007-11, about 23% of victims of nonfatal firearm crime were injured.
  • About 61% of nonfatal firearm violence was reported to the police in 2007-11.
  • In 2007-11, less than 1% of victims in all nonfatal violent crimes reported using a firearm to defend themselves during the incident.
  • In 2004, among state prison inmates who possessed a gun at the time of offense, less than 2% bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show and 40% obtained their firearm from an illegal source.
  • Males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 were most likely to be victims of firearm violence

Directly from the government:


Breakdown of homicides by age and sex:


Breakdown of violence by region:

And the full data:

The full report can be found here

Chart: H/t @Not_Jim_Cramer


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Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:18 | 3539305 duo
duo's picture

I can't believe both NBC and CBS actually mentioned this on the evening news.  Is anyone watching the Gun Control Network, I mean, CNN?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:21 | 3539323 ghandi
ghandi's picture

America, Land of the TV.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:27 | 3539347 SHEEPFUKKER

And 3D printed guns

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:30 | 3539354 oddball
oddball's picture

Piers, kindky go hang yourself.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:37 | 3539377 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Facts have very little to do with reality.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:44 | 3539391 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Facts have very little to do with perceived reality.

If they can get the masses to believe it; it becomes the truth.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:47 | 3539399 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

It's the thought that counts.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:04 | 3539426 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Americans don't even know what the Marriner Eccles building is either... & if, by chance, they were ever made aware of its existence, it would take about 5...4...3...2... before the media had people convinced that it was simply a limestone edifice... that constructed itself... & subsequently became possessed by GOZER [straight out of Ghostbusters fame]...

The damn thing just prints money all by itself and NOBODY but the Sta Puft Marshmallow man has anything to do with it...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:21 | 3539473 Aguadulce
Aguadulce's picture

Ban statistics?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:44 | 3539536 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

and .. teens are increasingly being found alive in houses

even the most normal-looking men are probably stashing teens in their basements and attics.


what we need is more door-to-door searches to find out what is in people's homes.


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:44 | 3539767 oddball
oddball's picture

I will send fiat paper to that man right now.  Charles Ramsey is fucking awesome.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:14 | 3540065 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

So from these stats we should ban southern black men from owning firearms? Is that what this study is saying?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:28 | 3540252 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




An apple a day and an AR-15 with an extended magazine keeps the lynch mob away.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:43 | 3540488 Short Memories
Short Memories's picture

What did the graph look like before '93?

Always skeptical of statistics :)

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:10 | 3540593 midtowng
midtowng's picture

It peaked in '93.  It was a little lower in the 80's.

The question is why they are focusing only on gun crime? This is a mirror of total crime.

A few months ago I had an argument with my father. I told him that crime was way down from a decade or so ago. He was convinced it was up because they talk about crimes on TV all the time.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:11 | 3540133 capitallosses
capitallosses's picture

That building was not built without Obama's help - no you didn't do that yourself.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:22 | 3539472 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Then its up to us to bypass the American propaganda machine and tell people directly about this and other gun related facts.

Some more factoids:  Your odds of being the victim in a mass shooting are far less than being struck by lightning (just check out the 10 year stats for both events).  In contrast, about 100 people die every day in auto accidents in the USA. Yet we drive and go about our lives without being overly concerned over this. 

This is hype designed to frighten people and contol them. People are being scammed and are taken to be emotionally driven fools. Do they enjoy being manipulated ?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:47 | 3540266 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

I've wondered why it took us so long to catch on. We saw it and yet we didn't see it. Or rather we were trained not to see it. Conned, perhaps, into thinking that the real action was metropolitan and all this was just boring hinterland. It was a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth,'' and so it goes away. Puzzling.


Robert Pirsig

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:45 | 3540262 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Sanity is not truth. Sanity is conformity to what is socially expected. Truth is sometimes in conformity, sometimes not.


Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:13 | 3539449 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"Piers, kindly go hang yourself."

Well personally, I think we should get back to some of the traditions of the American founders - - -

Tar and Feathering for redcoat Piers

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:30 | 3539355 Manthong
Manthong's picture

maybe I am mistaking, but it seems to me that fireworks, Toy RC control and pressure cooker crimes have increased.

somebody should start banning some of those things..  law abiding citizens cannot be trusted to have them.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:36 | 3539369 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

It's interesting to note that of the 10 largest mass murders in modern US history, exactly zero of them were committed with guns.  

Also, a few years back, a guy in his 90's killed a dozen people in Santa Monica with his car, and he wasn't even trying.  We're actually fortunate that terrorists are stupid enough to focus on bombs and guns.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:54 | 3539403 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Any 2 ton SUV or truck with full time 4WD could easily be a heinously lethal weapon of maming and death on a city street, in a festival or other crowd.

so we should ban them?


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:06 | 3539431 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Well, yes, of course we should.  Because it's the car that kills, not the driver.  Though soon, cars will drive themselves, and take us out of the loop for our own good.  Hmm, didn't Asimov right a book about that?  Plus, big trucks and SUV's are BAAAAAAADDD for the evironment.  We need to all be in coffin, err, smart cars.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:29 | 3540014 Manthong
Manthong's picture

:-)    short story.. in an anthology by IA

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:14 | 3540345 de3de8
de3de8's picture

Jeeesh, don't give them any ideas.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:51 | 3539572 farragut
farragut's picture

Do you have a source for this claim? Unless my memory is failing me, I recall a mass shooting at Virginia Tech in 2007 in which 32 were killed by a gunman. 20 were shot & killed at Newtown/Sandy Hook last year. 21 were shot & killed in San Ysidro in the early 80s at a fast food restaurant.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:15 | 3539655 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

My memory fails me quite often but I remember the world trade center bombing, the oklahoma federal building bombing, the govt sponsered mass killing at waco, the koolaid killings of the brainwashed wheel in the sky crowd, the machete hacking of migrant workers by Jaun Corona. That is a few of them anyway.  If any more come to mind I'll be sure to let you know.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:36 | 3539739 farragut
farragut's picture

Quantum stated that "...of the 10 largest mass murders in modern US history, exactly zero of them were committed with guns."

The VT shooter killed 32 with a gun. Are there 10 mass killings in US history where the victims weren't killed by guns with a body count greater than 32? If not, then his statement is not true and should be challenged--the same way you'd challenge Obama or Bernanke if they made a claim without providing a source. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but I'm just asking for a source, cause I can't find any (after only an admittedly cursory web search).

The 'koolaid killings' (if you mean Jonestown) were in Guyana, not the US. Juan Corona was a serial killer, not a mass murderer. Minor points, I know, but we should strive to be accurate, yes?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:09 | 3540169 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

#1 American flight 11 flown into WTC1, 1000+ dead.

#2 United flight 175 flown into WTC2, 1000+ dead.

#3 American flight 77 flown into Pentagon, 189 dead.

#4 Oklohama City bombing, 169 dead

#5 Happyland Club fire, 87 dead

#6 United flight 93 flown into ground, 44 dead.

#7 United flight 629 blown up, 44 dead.

#8 Continental flight 11 blown up, 44 dead

#9 Pacific Air flight 773 crashed, 44 dead.

#10 Pacific Southwest flight 1771 crashed, 43 dead.


Notice anything.... yea, airplanes. Avoid flight 11.  If you are the 44th person getting on a plane, get off!

The VT shootings are #11, then an arson, then many of the shootings mentioned in this thread.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:29 | 3540294 farragut
farragut's picture

Thanks for responding Q.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:11 | 3540406 malikai
malikai's picture

So that's 8 aviation related mass murders in a 58 year sample history. I think a low guess historically for average # of commercial flights is somewhere around 5,000/day.

That's 103,240,000 commercial flights, giving you and I worst-case odds of 1 in 12,905,000 of being a victm over the entire sample period. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:52 | 3540381 malikai
malikai's picture

EDIT: Nevermind.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:35 | 3539513 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

They must poll the same fools that they get rising 'consumer sentiment' numbers from

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:06 | 3540059 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Tv and Hollywood are for retards who like supporting The Matrix and who enjoy being serfs. Only F***ing morons watch their shit.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:31 | 3539358 surf0766
surf0766's picture

I can't believe someone watches the other communist networks nbc and cbs

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:46 | 3539548 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

They reported on it because it is proof that QE is working. If you notice, the rate started a second decline after 2008, when Ben Bernanke stared the QE programs. Kinda hard to buy a gun when you cannot afford to survive.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:09 | 3540282 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The study (and I'm guessing the US TV coverage) probably didn't mention that well over 200,000,000 ADDITIONAL firearms had been added to domestic hands while this drop in gun violence was occurring?

Those inverse correlation nutters may have a point...

(Use ATF AMFER Datasets pre-NICS period)



Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:55 | 3540389 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Good point, UR. And, shall-issue concealed handgun license laws have been passed in most states. CHL hasn't caused the bloodbath the gun-control propagandists predicted.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:52 | 3539803 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

And you would think that every other person is gay, judging by the gay-a-day news stories.

Ed Bernays would be proud of these liberal sacks of shit, a.k.a. "reporters".

Leading the masses like asses.

BTW, any new word on Linsey Lohan or the Kardashians?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:19 | 3539309 vortmax
vortmax's picture

Original Pew Research study here

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:39 | 3540188 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Michael Moore covered this in one of his movies (Columbine, I think) - violent crime was going down, but tv coverage was up exponentially, so public perception was that crime was soaring.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:23 | 3539328 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

I think that the 56%  could not name the senators from their state. So, is it valuable, no.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:34 | 3539363 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'd be willing to bet that number is closer to 90% of Americans can't name their senators.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:38 | 3539378 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

My senators are ___________ and ______.  I purposely choose not to recognize them. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:45 | 3539397 SHEEPFUKKER

Probably easier to name the senators rather than name even one thing they have done to make the country a better place. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:16 | 3539460 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

But their purpose is not to make "the country" a better place. Their purpose is to participate in the transfer of money from one set of pockets to another. They do that pretty well.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:24 | 3539487 nasa
nasa's picture

my Senators are BoA & GS

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:31 | 3539505 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

@tenpanhandle,  I am guessing you live in California.  I live in Illinois.  We have a different situation with one communist democrat and one communist homosexual republican.  Folks are voting for taxpayer provided benefits. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:02 | 3540396 918pigpen
918pigpen's picture

Inhofe  and Coburn, Not perfect but better than most!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:48 | 3539402 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I can name my two fucking bitch senators.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:50 | 3539562 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Overfed:  "I can name my two fucking bitch senators."

I take it you live in Washington state also.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:19 | 3540349 de3de8
de3de8's picture

I can name mine too, only because they have been there forever.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:51 | 3540386 malikai
malikai's picture

Don't talk about bitches like that.

Bitches are loyal, trustworthy, always look out for you, are generally independant, and of high family value.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:10 | 3539444 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

I know my Senators names, but it is really just too painful to recall them.  If I did, I'd have to acknowledge that those complete morons "represent" me.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:40 | 3539527 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

How would most answer the question "What is the legislature ?"

Likely answer given:    "Huh?"

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:43 | 3539393 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

Close: 51% (source)

Unreasonable and uninformed fear, despite a statistical decline in crime, has dominated public sentiment and especially the gun control debate for many years, even though the truth has been pointed out many times in the past.  

Here's 2008: 

Here's 2011: 

You can probably keep going back to the 80's with this, certainly back through the 90's.

This time will be no different.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:20 | 3539470 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

Yes, "Americans" are easliy convinced of any number of silly notions. But they are not unique in that. That is not what makes them exceptional. I'm not sure what does...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:42 | 3539532 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"Yes, "Americans" are easliy convinced of any number of silly notions. But they are not unique in that. That is not what makes them exceptional. I'm not sure what does... "

maybe thinking that they are exceptional ?



Well actually people have thought that throughout history - it seems to be a general human conceit

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:24 | 3539330 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

I wonder if they included all the people shot to death by police and our government?

 I bet that would make a difference in the statistics.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:40 | 3539383 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Get real.  It's a tiny fraction of deaths.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:11 | 3539446 Andre
Andre's picture

How would we know?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:24 | 3539331 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

MSM lies with impunity. Until they are held accountable, the disinformation will continue.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:27 | 3539341 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

I  wonder how many people in Water Town found themselves wishing they owned one of those evil looking military type weapons?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:21 | 3540139 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I would agree but considering more recent events, I would think those in Massechusetts would have even more reason to have a self defense weapon. After all, law enforcement was requesting people in MA to stay indoors while they hunt for a killer running loose. That is different from a school shooting where the suspect is in a known location.

But that takes away from the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. Yes, I want to protect myself (and I do) with a gun in my home. The 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens (yes I knnow felons are banned from having guns) as a group for protecting ourselves against a government that becomes tyrannical and that is the main purpose of the 2nd Amentment.

As an individual, I can use my gun to hunt and I can use it to protect my family. But if I am the only one armed, I mean very little in the scheme of things with regard to the nation. If I were the only one armed, I could do very little to stop a tyrannical government. But as a group of millions, it is a different story.

Those that that support the 2nd Amendment to prevent and fight a tyrannical government are considered extreme. But those that use other uses of guns such as hunting and personal defense, take away the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment. Do I think the government is tyrannical, maybe. Maybe it is not. It certainly isn't enough for the majority yet. But I want to have my guns if the time comes when it is clear that the government is tyrannical.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:03 | 3539422 samsara
samsara's picture

I read a story once that the spokes persons in front of the camera for the propaganda MSM starting being on the receiving end of gun violence while giving a news cast....

The effects/resullts were pronounced...... a sharp drop of those wanting to report the "news"

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3539335 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Crazy people with guns, the problem must be guns!"

"Crazy bankers with money, the problem must be money!"


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:26 | 3539339 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

People being fat : it's the fork's fault!

Words being misspelled : obviously the pencil's fault!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:48 | 3539401 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

its the fork's fault but the toilet gets punished.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:22 | 3540350 de3de8
de3de8's picture


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:25 | 3539337 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

The statist medias and the Obamabots are winning the propaganda war!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:27 | 3539340 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    The MSM is pretty good at shooting themselves in the feet?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:27 | 3539344 booboo
booboo's picture

60% of Americans under the age of 30 think they are starring in their own reality tv show.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:27 | 3539346 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

What about a graph on number of people owning guns in X area VS crime rate of said area?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:51 | 3539379 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

And 98% of remaining gun violence occurs in either the states with the highest gun control or gun free zones while it declines in the gun friendly states.....go figure.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:42 | 3539388 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

56% of all Americans also believe that dihydrogen monoxide should be banned immediatly, and only governments should be trusted with it.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:55 | 3539413 booboo
booboo's picture

I mixed dihydrogen monoxide with Dewars once and drank it, I tore up a truck, a pair of jeans, a flower bed, my girlfriends vagina and two cops,  yea thats some deadly shit there.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:07 | 3539433 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

When I was in college I drank too many DHMo and Dewars and was almost arrested for public matriculation.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:52 | 3539580 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

"Not on the rug... man!"

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:51 | 3539564 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Sounds dangerous, it has an oxide, must be as bad as dixoide carbon!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:56 | 3539581 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Only drink your booze straight or on the rocks and solve your problem


Man a drink sounds good right now. I think I'll indulge myself.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:53 | 3539804 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Meh, Absinthe requires dilution, unless you're into drinking lighter fluid...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:26 | 3540226 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Try buying real absinthe rathe rthan some generic brand pisswater.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:42 | 3539390 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Bring back the Mattel Zero M radio, it’s bound to reduce crime thru intimidation.

Let’s not forget: Mattel Shootin' Shell Toy Cap Gun


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:46 | 3539398 samsara
samsara's picture

Hey,  I still have my fanner fifty, and my belt buckle derringer....  Mattel was great....

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:25 | 3540223 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

I prefer the crickett, when you absolutely gotta wipe out every 2 year old in the room.

Accept no substitute.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:45 | 3539395 samsara
samsara's picture

What's so surprising? 


They also believe 19 ex cave dwellers flew planes,  and a guy with some fertilizer in a truck blew up the Murrah building in OK.  and that the last few elections didn't have any tampering, and the guy with the anthrax letters was identified, and died.....   and and and.......

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:49 | 3539405 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

there's a chaulkboard that explains it to all y'all.  I'll dig out a reference, but have to clean out the basement first. - Ned

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 20:50 | 3539407 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Is it just me? i FEEL LKE IM' IN FRONT OF A POLITICALLY CORRECT, firing squad!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:04 | 3539424 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Now your standing in front of the Venus Project wankers. We have already taken down the carbon tax tree hugger’s, one more to go.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:04 | 3539425 William.M.Tweed
William.M.Tweed's picture

I think that local peak in the early '90's was due to violent movies such as Robocop 2 and the Die Hard series

The appearance of the law must be upheld, Especially when it's being broken

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:24 | 3540222 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Mr tweed.

You do realise those were pretend shows using actors and not real?

If you are believing the tv is real you need help and quickly.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:10 | 3539445 titty sprinkles
titty sprinkles's picture

"Full Data" would include rates of gun related suicides as well.


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:22 | 3539478 Tombstone
Tombstone's picture

Likely most of these idjits voted for The Dictator because they are programmed to believe all Kommunist lies.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:33 | 3540219 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Nobody has voted for a dictator since roman times, thats the modern meaning of the word dictator.

You have no moral code, no rule of law, no care for the community you live in.

You are petty tribalists with M16's, no different than the somali tribes who impose sharia rule by force, except with you its god's law as written by the twelve commandments.

No diff than the muslins or the juice and certainly not as smart, their fanatics are on a front line fighting and dying for their beliefs, you fat fuckers sit on armchairs spouting quotes from books you've never read and telling yourself you are superior to the kardashian tribes because your family is in the NRA tribe.

Your pavlovian emotional responses are conditioned by fox news and tho your rage is real, your ability to affect change is negligible.

Nobody took america from you dipshit, you sold it to china for a spiderman towel.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:23 | 3539484 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Propaganda channels. Lie upon lie upon lie.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:23 | 3539485 miker
miker's picture

ACTUALLY, gun violence (people shot) has increased.  The entire reason homicides have dropped is due to emergency medical/trauma care so widespread in the country.  We are now saving these bastards at taxpayer expense.  Of course, EVERY police department touts the drop in homicides in their city.  What they don't show you is the number of people hit by bullets. 

Don't go ranting that I'm a gun control nut, blah, blah, blah.  The reality is that gun violence hasn't dropped.  The DOJ and every police dept (except Chicago) love to show how homicides have dropped; they just don't take the time to tell you that lots more are surviving being taxpayer expense you can be sure.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:30 | 3539498 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Your Mother called your sister Miker. I'm af-fraid, she has bad news.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:17 | 3541432 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Are they not one and the same person?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:40 | 3539525 booboo
booboo's picture

Guns don't get "violent" skippy, SUV's don't kill people and women don't "get pregnant" like they catch a fucking cold, stop parroting they anti gun mantra and we won't label you a "gun control nut" ya fuckin gun control nut.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:53 | 3539567 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Based on...what?

This data shows pretty clearly that the number of total incidents shown in the first graph has decreased dramatically. Hell, Chicago has a pretty low murder rate compared to the truly dangerous citites- compared to places like Detroit, Baltimore, post-katrina New Orleans, and East St. Louis its a bunch of shiny happy people holding hands.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:57 | 3539590 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

"ACTUALLY, gun violence (people shot) has increased." ...but I can't take one minute to provide you with the hard statistics, so you will just have to take my word for it.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:34 | 3539704 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

ever since the movies showed gangstas turning their guns horizontal and shooting like they're punching something, the real live gangstas have been missing most of their shots.  Between the marksmanship of the police and the gangbangers, fatalities per shot have been dropping for a long time.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:26 | 3539873 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

According to the CDC, there have been approximately 13,673 more Non-fatal injuries from firearms in 2011, than there were in 2001. (the CDC does not provide statistics before 2001 in the program)  I did not take the time to do every successive year between these two dates.  There were 26,622,962 more Americans in 2011, than in 2001.

I removed b/b gun injuries from calculation, and self inflected numbers were about the same for the two years.


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:33 | 3540149 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

My guess they were mostly liberals or leftists.

Unfortunately I don't have data to throw at you, just a hunch.


Fort Hood - Islamic leftist

Columbine (kids raised by leftist

9/11 Islamic leftist

Sandy Hook - raised by leftist mother

Boston Islamic leftist

Virgina Tech leftist

Unibomber leftist

And the list goes on .....


About the only one the leftist like to try to use as a right wing killer is Timothy McVeigh, who was not conservative or religious right.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:18 | 3540213 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

You believe in a god as do the muslims amd the jews together you god botherers have killed more than anything except malaria, i dont mind you killing each other but please leave us atheists out of your petty argument over whose invisible friend has the biggest cock.

All religion is right wing as it teaches superstion as the basis for its heirachy.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:53 | 3540270 snblitz
snblitz's picture

I will counter with St. Aquinas' Summa Theologica.  I await your counter arguments.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:16 | 3541428 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Gonna take me till sunday to read it.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:04 | 3540277 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

You believe in a god as do the muslims amd the jews together you god botherers have killed more than anything except malaria,


That claim has no factual basis whatsoever.


All religion is right wing as it teaches superstion as the basis for its heirachy.


Superstitions ... you mean like ontological materialism, Marxist dialectics, epistemological relativism, human equality, anarchic political theory, leftist moralising and pseudohistorical interpretations of the origin and record of religions? All religion is clearly not 'right wing', as the existence of communism demonstrates.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:16 | 3541427 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

I give up. you win.

We are all animals driven by base instinct and will never better ourselves nor know why the sun rises or why the world is flat.

If you srsly think communism is a religion you must be reading the book upside down.


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:32 | 3540298 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Actually- you're wrong

If the victim doesn't die, it's an AGGRAVATED ASSUALT data point, with knives, fists, and blunt instruments thrown in for good for confusion, and aggravated assaults have also been declining over the same period.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:30 | 3539497 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Lag Roe v. Wade about 18 years and let us all know how the graph looks....

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:44 | 3539538 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The graph looks like the bottom left side of a parabola to me.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:46 | 3539545 booboo
booboo's picture

If guns were banned by the gun control freaks today statistics will bear out a graph called Democide going parabolic in 18 years.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:01 | 3539612 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:29 | 3539500 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Joined the NRA yesterday. Highly advise everyone else to do the same. I know a lot of people here aren't big on... big organizations like the NRA. But there are a lot of motivated people there wiling to fight this Marxist White House and its lying State-Run Media. Time to make a stand and fight back. Correct me if I'm wrong but the NAACP has 1/5 the membership of the NRA (as of Sunday. By now, it's probably even smaller) and look at all the rabble rousing those corrupt racist clowns get achieved.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:58 | 3539595 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Seriously, I've been impressed by the way the NRA actually accomplishes stuff.


I even sign up my liberal relatives for a laugh

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:01 | 3539606 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Van Halen - - - you also might wanna check out GOA  - - - Gunowners of America

Ron Paul on GOA:  "The only no compromise gun lobby in Washington."

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:37 | 3539519 q99x2
q99x2's picture

A lot of older people watch TV and that is what is on the TV. The same treasonous banksters that took over the United States of America own the TV stations. And people will say anything if you ask them in the right way.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:39 | 3539522 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Have I said "Fuck Chase Bank!" yet today?

Fuck Chase, and J.P. Morgan.  If you bank there you need to have your head examined.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:51 | 3539565 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I fucked Chase bank and BAC, and Capital One, and embraced credit unions back in 2006. I'm a share holder, and they have competitive rates.

       Imagine that!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:58 | 3539596 Blazed
Blazed's picture

There isn't a gun problem, but there is a demographics problem.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:08 | 3539638 UGrev
UGrev's picture

SO that's what that popping sound was...  liberal heads exploding. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:35 | 3539740 Future Jim
Future Jim's picture

"56% of Americans believe that gun crime is higher now than it was 20 years ago"

Isn't that the same percentage who know they are right and that anyone who disagrees with them is a racist?

Isn't that the same percentage who like Obama?

No. I'm sure those are three separate groups.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:37 | 3539747 stateside
stateside's picture

This same 56% will be the reason the liberals will be in the White House for the forseeable future.  We've crossed the point of no return.  It's useless to fight the political fight.  Time to protect yourself and your family from the catastrophe coming.


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:04 | 3539825 squexx
squexx's picture

Note how many members of the Satanic Tribe are coming out for gun control...........the same evil tribe that controls the media!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:40 | 3539906 MedTechEntrepreneur
MedTechEntrepreneur's picture

The tribe of Rome...yeah.. i noticed...And Francis Sawyer was leading the way...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:39 | 3540187 honestann
honestann's picture

This data has little significance.  Either way, people who want guns should have guns.  Besides, think about it... if violence is increasing, that's a reason to have guns, not get rid of them.  Never fall for the argument that you have no right to guns (or anything else) just because some scumbag authoritarian says you don't need them.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:07 | 3540207 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Thats true Francis, my cousins Sister julie makes $4,500 every week selling fully automatic weapons to anyone who has the cash, freshly released mental patients, violent repeat offenders, gangbangers..... the opportunities for wealth creation are endless and all protected by the 2nd amendment.


Gandalf bless America.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:55 | 3540271 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Remind me again of how all those poor natives lost their land while barely beign able to put up a semblance of a fight to the evil colonialists ... something about gunpowder ...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:17 | 3540287 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Race based genocide?

If you believe that absolute power is imposed by force and not moral authority then you are a true maoist.

Some of us believe in a law higher than that of the jungle.

Sad to see you dont.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:27 | 3540360 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Ummm ... the use of force is an exertion of power. And exercising force is one means of altering the balance of power and controlling people. Getting them to follow laws through moral persuasion might be another. The jungle doesn't know any laws. I deal in facts, not human sentiment.


So the one talking about 'superstition' in relation to God himself seems to believe in the absolutely nonsensical twaddle about objective moral laws.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:02 | 3541121 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

You seem to believe that force is the only law, whereas i believe that force is simply a tool to be used in defence of a higher moral law.

I see you are a very intelligent i'll keep it as simple as i can and try not to go too fast for you.

An ethical man feels guilty for sleeping with your wife.

A moral man refuses her advances.

If the threat of physical violence is all that motivates you then thats sad, some of us are motivated by things other than fear and greed, i appreciate that your entire culture is based on fear and greed but if other americans can break the cycle then there is hope for you too.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:33 | 3540366 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Race based genocide?


I see you're too dimtwitted to follow. Your alleged 'genocide' of native peaceniks, boo hoo, was enabled through the fact that the genocidal baddies had guns and knew how to use them, while the native peaceniks generally didn't.


Sad to see you dont.


You can whine and whinge about it all day long, but the fact remains that no amount of belief in moral laws will defend you from those who don't share your beliefs. A gun, on the other hand, could very well do just that.


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:18 | 3541437 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

You have no moral code, no rule of law, no care for the community you live in.

You are petty tribalists with M16's, no different than the somali tribes who impose sharia rule by force, except with you its god's law as written by the twelve commandments.

No diff than the muslins or the juice and certainly not as smart, their fanatics are on a front line fighting and dying for their beliefs, you fat fuckers sit on armchairs spouting quotes from books you've never read and telling yourself you are superior to the kardashian tribes because your family is in the NRA tribe.

Your pavlovian emotional responses are conditioned by fox news and tho your rage is real, your ability to affect change is negligible.

Nobody took america from you dipshit, you sold it to china for a spiderman towel.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:55 | 3540272 snblitz
snblitz's picture

I have first hand experience with the "police" choosing not to record various crimes for the purpose of making the stats look better.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:33 | 3540300 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

The author needs to graph gun sales by region, and ammo sales.  It would throw a new light on the subject?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:37 | 3540302 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

the issue is WHO has the guns..which side whould you want to be on - empty hands do no Waco the numbers killed were high in both kids and adults, fire work well for the ATF and FBI. How many police shootings have we had in this time period, and GW maintains terror is .gov at work. the leftist here on zh and media want only .Gov to murder, hypocrits and scum - Obuma the peace prize king of USSA, wants all the guns at DHS.,go figure

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:27 | 3540646 22winmag
22winmag's picture

I still recommend watching Red State for a) a cool movie, and b) a realistic idea of the *absolutely unsustainable* losses the Feds would suffer if they got into a shooting match with the American people.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:35 | 3540674 stiler
stiler's picture

I work w/ a NYTimes liberal who watches CNN and doesn't believe this. He's an inverted Nixonion era believer in the system and in evolution. Then there are the typical New England low-info voters who knee jerk tow the Dems.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:37 | 3540685 VictoryOrDeath
VictoryOrDeath's picture

Who exactly are taking these polls?  How could only 12% of those polled feel that gun crime has decreased?  Unless you have a true random sampling with equal distributions across demographics and geography, these polls will never be accurate.  I bet I can get a 100% approval rating for Obama if I create a poll at

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:42 | 3541020 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

War is peace. 
Freedom is slavery. 
Ignorance is strength.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:43 | 3541028 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

"Think about how stupid the average person is, and remember: half them are even dumber than that." - George Carlin

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