This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Jeremy Grantham: "We Have Been Conned"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The lessons of Jeremy Grantham's recent interview with Charlie Rose seem to be becoming increasingly prescient as the stock market surges to new highs amid a crumbling macro (and micro) economy. "Bernanke is whipping the economic donkey that can only grow at 1-2% as if it was a race horse growing above 3%," and unfortunately he will keep doing it "until the donkey is dead." As Grantham says, it is a "very dangerous situation to have the most powerful man in the world," doing this as simply put, the Fed, "does not have the tools to generate employment." But while Grantham's clarity on Bernanke's actions are unquestionable in their endgame, his views (below) on Keynes, debt, and wealth transfer are even more concerning. "We had this amazing experiment... but we have been conned into believing by the financial world that debt is everything."

Brief clip on Bernanke's actions...

Full interview here (no embed)...

Grantham On Debt...

JEREMY GRANTHAM: Let me tell you something about debt. In 1982, if you added all the debt up it was 1.25 times the size of the GDP. And then, and it had been fairly flat for a long time, drifting slowly up. And then it kinked 45 degrees and it goes shooting up steadily without too much volatility. Just goes straight up.

CHARLIE ROSE: When was that?

JEREMY GRANTHAM: `82, 1982 -- and it goes steadily upwards to 3.5 times. So we had this amazing –

CHARLIE ROSE: That`s when Ronald Reagan was president, `82.

JEREMY GRANTHAM: Yes, right. And so we had this amazing experiment -- the biggest economy in the world almost tripling its ratio of debt over a block of time that really counts -- 30 years. And what happened in terms of the growth rate of the system, it slowed way down. Now there are other reasons I grant you that. But there`s no room in that equation to believe that increasing debt has anything to do with long-term growth. Is there?

That you triple it, what more can you do, and the growth rate of our system slowed materially? It`s so contrary, isn`t it?

They are the facts. They are so contrary to the general belief. We have been conned into believing by the financial world that debt is everything. Let a bank go, oh my God it would be the end of the world.

CHARLIE ROSE: Would Keynes have agreed with you about debt?

JEREMY GRANTHAM: I don`t know. I really don`t know. It`s such a different world now. The levels of debt are so much higher. He would probably have some ingenuous new theory.

CHARLIE ROSE: OK but I mean most people believe that we do have, I mean they look at the percentage of GDP to debt or debt to GDP.

JEREMY GRANTHAM: I can prove that debt does not generate long-term growth. I have given you the numbers.

CHARLIE ROSE: It does not prevent.

JEREMY GRANTHAM: It doesn`t cause long-term growth it doesn`t create it. Debt, we triple the debt and GDP growth rate went down. There is no evidence that increasing debt increases GDP. And yet that mandate has been given to Bernanke who thinks apparently that it does.

By keeping interest rates low, you`re transferring money away from retirees who spend every penny and are really hurting. And by the way, there`s far more of them every year now than there ever was when economic theories were being panned out. You take money from them, and who are the beneficiaries -- the guys who run the hedge funds and the banking system in general and speculators and corporations theoretically can use it to build. But they`re building less now than practically in history. There is no major league capital spending boom going on.

JEREMY GRANTHAM: We`ve gotten into a bit of a rat hole and we should be careful getting out of it. But it is not the overwhelming thing that will dominate our future. What it does is it distracts us from the real world.

Debt is an accounting world. It`s paper. The real world is the quantity and quality of your people, and the quantity and quality of your capital spending. Are you building new machines? Are you being inventive? Are you training your people? Is your high school system delivering the same education that it used to relative to the South Koreans, relative to the Norwegians? No it`s not. We should worry more about the real world and less about the paper world.

And somehow we`re in this death grip that only paper things matter.   And so there is much too little attention spent on education, training, capital spending, finding a way to beef it up. And also I would rather stimulate the economy directly through government spending than I would like to play games with the monetary system and games with the interest rate inflicting great wounds on retirees and so on and transferring wealth to people who won`t spend it
 
We’re transferring wealth from the poor to the rich by keeping interest rates low. I`m not even sure the economy gains at all by a low-interest rate. And furthermore no one is established convincingly that it is a good idea. It`s a tradition that is a good idea. That`s not the same.

We’ve had lots of traditions like the market would look after itself. People wouldn`t be crooks because economic theory assumes that they`re not. But they often were crooks, and greedy and short-term oriented and willing to dance until the music stopped. Although Soros said the music had actually stopped long before.

(h/t M.O.)

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:43 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

It hurts when you wake up.

The very idea that paper-printers can create "wealth" for society is ludicrous on its face.

It's merely a transfer; we pick winners and losers; and, we merely steal from the losers.

This is the same as with any Central Planner system.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:45 | Link to Comment Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

“That`s when Ronald Reagan was president, `82”

A pretty sharp guy, that Chuck Rose.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:52 | Link to Comment SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

it's especially nice when he interrupts his guest

and also .. when he asks a question and then the guest begins to answer and then chuck interrupts the beginning of a response in order to embellish the question

because mostly we want to hear chuck talk

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:20 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Sorry but this guy is a luddite.  Everything he says is flawed because he has no clue about how technology across every industry is actually making the world more livable, more sustainable, and less costly.  Hey Jeremy, are we going to run out of carbon?  I hear they can make airplanes from that.  So I guess we won't need all that indeustrial metal you're worried about depleting. Carbon is only the most abundant material on earth, for God's sake you fund management, stupid tool. There is just as much progress in store across the board.  Agriculture.  Medicine.  Energy. On and fucking on.

For all Grantham claims about doomsday scenarios, there are 100 more signs of progress like this and orders of magnitude efficiency here or coming.  Wireless technology alone has the potential to eliminate hundreds of billions of cost -- just like the semiconductor chip has for the past 30 years.

Let me put it more bluntly.  This fucker is a eugenicist and he would love it if every one of you needless fuckers were dead or dying so his fucking planet can be safe for his little asswipe tribe, whoever they are.  You can be 99.999 sure you're not included.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:21 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Iron. oxygen, magnesium and silicon are the biggies...

Carbon doesn't even crack the top 10.

http://www.decodedscience.com/earth-chemistry-at-a-glance-for-earth-day/...

 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Oh fucking prove it, carbon based life form...

You can spend the next zillion years of your life digging a hole to that fucking iron buried in the center of the planet. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The American edumacation system is doomed... DOOMED I say...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

You're too fucking smart for ZH.  You should head over to HP.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:39 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

But he misspelled DUMED.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:39 | Link to Comment TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Discussing the finer points of the US Economy at this stage of the game is akin to discussing the literacy improvement of a Death Row inmate.

I only need time to warm the Popcorn.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:04 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

Charlie Rose is a complete idiot

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:15 | Link to Comment Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Charlie Rose is a cleaner for the Oligarchic mafia. He's there to sanitize all topics / guests and to plant the meme of greed and servitude to the benevolent if sometimes hapless masters.  Every guest he has on is some sort of power broking scumbag, coddled and made to look decent.

And that lovely statement from Jeremy Grantham where he proclaims that low interest rates are transferring wealth from the poor to the rich... what a fucking crock of shit... pay attention to the switch... we go from elderly folks who have savings, to all people who do not have money... he forgets to mention that high interest rates also cause the same effect, becuase the poor often don't have a slush fund or savings, the poor often borrow money and end up having to pay extortionate rates, transferring wealth to the fucking parasites who stole the god damn money in the first fucking place, so they could lend it and steal more.

That's another reason I really really hate micro loans... or better known to me as bleeding the poor sap dry. It's not enough that you devastate the poor with regular loans... once they get below a certain threshold, issue micro loans and take every last fucking cent from them.

Anyway, more propaganda and misinformation from the oligarchy... just babble... baffle them with blahter. It seems to be working.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

What we have here is another example of the ignorance of the leftist media.  No Mr. Rose, Mr. Grantham does not agree with Krugman or Bernanke.  He is arguing the opposite and your are apparently too dense to recognize this.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

NOT

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yeah but... He's got an 'unobtanium ship' with a kick ass impeller & is on a high protein diet... ROTF...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:57 | Link to Comment Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

I just checked the PE ratios of Cramer's "top six" (per the net) recommendations. They are WAY above Grantham's nosebleed bubble level yet Cramerica is still raking in the Bernanke bucks.

[can a ZH'er help out and point me to the present index weighted composition of the S&P 500?]

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:42 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

I'm honestly interested in your assertion, what type of carbon are you talking about? How is it processed? Are you talking about nanotubes and sheeting derived thereof? Any particular articles or studies you could point me towards?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:31 | Link to Comment Salah
Salah's picture

Just come visit us....and stay for a few years, you'll get all the info you care to absorb

http://www.lanl.gov/orgs/mpa/stc/nanotechnology.shtml

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

ok

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:39 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

B b but I thought you could only obtain that unobtainable stuff from that moon off Pandora by courageously droning off all the indigenous giant lanky war-smurfs?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:46 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Obviously that too.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:20 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

Interesting yes, a few years no. The majority of the information seemed to be along the lines of further refinement of alloys and materials on their current observable/mailable scale, although this could(and will) yield great results, the overall efficiency and range implied by their development does not yet rule out an apocalyptic timeline given current resource return rates.

 

If you were offering me a job, then maybe i would "stay a few years", but i operate in theoretical circumstances, and because of my botched education would not qualify based on the necessity for constant recursive searches for basic terminology.

I'll probably look at that site again, but its rudimentary nature (necessary probably on a state secret basis) leaves little that would actually benefit me.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:26 | Link to Comment tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

The type of carbon he's talking about is the type of carbon that behavioral economics (read Cass Sunstein) is based on.  It's a type of carbon based in technological scarcity rather than the genuine abundance.  It's a a squeeze play that comes from the libertarian side and the progressive side simultaneously squeezing out the middle (libertarian paternalism).  It's how Ron Paul and Ralph Nader found common ground.  It's how you get a guy like Charlie Rose and Tyler Durden singing off the same page "End the Fed...end the Fed". 

Ending the Fed is one thing when you upstream the assets to a sovereign wealth fund while ending the Fed when the gold has been foreclosed upon by private foreign interests is something altogether different. The "equitable distribution" agreement that is essentially a divorce of liquidity from risk is being put into force, but not until the wealth component has been completely hollowed out... which appears to be nearing the synthetic end game... just ask Blythe. 

http://tradewithdave.com/?s=%22libertarian+paternalism%22+

http://tradewithdave.com/?s=%22divorced+currency%22+

 

 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:51 | Link to Comment W T F II
W T F II's picture

n P,

I come out somewhere between you and Jeremy on innovation and resource repletion.

Since you obviously loathe the guy, he'll be long dead when any of his projections actually play out, if any do....So, you got THAT goin' for you...!!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:26 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"...he has no clue about how technology across every industry is actually making the world more livable, more sustainable, and less costly."

Oh sure, all those electricity sucking I.T. devices; not to mention modern agriculture completely reliant upon petroleum.

The "technology will save us" meme is the most dangerous one of the past 2,000 years or more.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:19 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

OMG what a fucking moron.  I'm sure you have a parking space for your shit though.  It's just the non-you part of the human species you lying sack of shit earth-first fuck losers don't give a shit about.  Go grow a carrot you fucking cunt.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:21 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Funny.

I thought you were talking about tech. not carrots?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:29 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

I fucking lolled at the reversal.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:45 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

For your aptitude, carrots and tech are the same problem.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:45 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

Jump.

You realize that i almost most certainly agree with you on just about every thing right?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:35 | Link to Comment skipjack
skipjack's picture

Yeah, because Frankenfood is just as good as organic, right ?  Hamburgers made from feces are just as healthy as...science can make them.  Then there are the technological wonderlands of automated license plate scanners, drones, surveillance cameras, electronic surveillance and databases of all your communications, and on and on and on.  

 

Technology is making a slave of you, and the rest of us.  WAKE THE FUCK UP, people.  YOU are not on the A list.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:49 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

How fucking hard is it to find real food?  You probably fucking have a can of Pringles in your pantry and then complain using some media-sponsored hyperbole about "frankenfood".  How about that "franken shampoo" you surely use every week for your entire life so far.  Keep rubbing that putrid shit on your head, dumb ass.  That ain't "technology".  That's fucking poison that you're too stupid to differentiate, just like all of the fucking sheep.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:40 | Link to Comment Himins
Himins's picture

@Precious:
I presume you are getting paid to shill ZH, the words Fuck, Cunt, Sack of Shit, etc...is kind of a dead givaway. Getting paid to shill is ok I guess as I do have faith in the Capitolist system as far as it goes..BUT..if you are doing it for free....how embarrasing is THAT

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

This thread just proves what fucking brainwashed tools people have become.  You call me a shill?  I'm not the one shilling for Jeremy Grantham, the phony brit stooge.  You obviously don't know your ass from an apple.  And as far as the color goes, WTF do you care?  Get your own fucking blog, and then you can censor however you want, shit for brains.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:59 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Hey eb'y, at the risk of sounding all 'dangerously cornucopian' and everything, have you ever considered examining a cross section of this planet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_gradient

And before you start feeding me the old lines about how 'unobtanium' all those juicy megajoules are, and the whole 'last year's man retired in 1967 engineer' bs:

"Well, if it's so damn smart, why isn't everybody doing it already?"

here's a slightly unrelated, but presciently apt all the same quote of Tesla's you might want to to take a gander at

"It is not a dream, it is a simple feat of...engineering, only expensive -But who knows?  Perhaps it is better in this present world of ours that a revolutionary idea or invention instead of being helped and patted, be hampered and ill-treated in its adolescence—by want of means, by selfish interest, pedantry, stupidity and ignorance; that it be attacked and stifled; that it pass through bitter trials and tribulations, through the heartless strife of commercial existence. So do we get our light.  So all that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed—only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly..."

I'm not trying to sell anyone 'hope's spare change', just saying that when our backs are against the wall that well over 2000 year old tendency towards self interested short sightedness of ours we all whine about can accomplish some pretty amazing shit right smartly when required.




Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:51 | Link to Comment Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 You're not the big fat broad are ya?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:12 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Your not the fucking NYC mayor are ya?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:57 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

so, like advances in medicine has made it so much more affordable? Got it. The problem with your rant is that government seems to suck up that efficiency and magically turn Gold into cellulose and send you a bill for the trouble. They proved this again yesterday when they took the efficiency of the internet and turned it into a stone wheel.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:39 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Sorry I don't get it.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:43 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

Advancements in medicine gave you chronic diabetes and the hoveround , does that make more sense?

Because government and bleeding heart.

But yeah, we can keep funding the obvious idiocy in place of real advancement, is that preferable to you?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:00 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

I don't want to fund jack shit.  I want the elected dickwads, the elites they blow, and the numbnuts they hire, to stay as far the fuck away from me as humanly possible. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:31 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Well Zbigniew Brezinski said they have the technology so now its cheaper to kill a million people than to control a million people.

Its sure gotten cheaper to spy on and drone kill those who are declared 'difficult'.

See, advancing technology is a good thing always !  The future always brings progress.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:40 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Zbigniew Brezinski is one of the greatest criminals of modern history, so fuck what he says.  Of course people with his mentality take anything good and turn it into everything evil.  That's their game. Zbigniew Brezinski can kiss my fucking ass.  I hope he fucking dies of the most painful form of cancer possible, and then goes to hell in a submarine filled with 90 octane.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:13 | Link to Comment lewy14
lewy14's picture

Sanctimonious deontological fuckwits.

Both of them.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:18 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

@ Precious

Technology is making the world less costly?

I wish that were true, I really do.  And in some cases, you're absolutely right.  I can buy all sorts of gadgets for pennies on the dollar now- hell, I bought a guitar in February for $80 new- the same instrument from the same manufacturer went for almost $700 the last time I played.  CNC routers made the price plummet.  I've also got a 30" monitor that cost less than $200, and a nice set of Bose speakers that set me back well under $100.

Here's the rub, though- I can't feed my kids or heat my home with those things.  Yeah, they're awesome, provided that the basics are covered- but every year, the basics are becoming harder and harder to fund.  Two years ago, I could buy two carts of groceries and pay all my utilities for well under $400.  This month, the utility bill alone is $677.  With my mortgage (which has also increased due to the local property taxes ratcheting up every year without fail,) that means that over 66% of my post-tax income goes to house, electric and water.  That doesn't leave much to feed my family, purchase gas for my car (even though technology apparently made that cheaper in your argument,) clothe my children and incidentals.  What was a sensible and responsible life decision a decade ago is now an oppressive and unsustainable albatross hanging from my neck- with no alternatives availible.

So I'm willing to concede your point- I work in manufacturing, and we do far more with far less every year.  The problem is that before your beloved singularity comes, I will be forced to rob the gas station to fill my tank and feed my kids Corn Nuts so they don't starve to death because the shits that own my company needed to have ultra-low profile rims on their new Escalades.

Don't mistake this for hyperbole.  You may be 100% right, and still be wrong.  There is a time factor to all of this, and I'm damn near out of can-kicking time- I am not talking years here.  If things aren't better by the middle of this summer, I will be forced into kinetic action.  Even if all the rainbow fart theories could come true, they're not coming soon enough- and, so sorry, if the advances aren't shared now, we barbarians are going to burn the whole rotten house of cards to the ground.  

The clock is running, tick-tock, tick-tock.  There is very little time left for me to even listen to solutions and reparations for what was stolen from me.  Even now, I think I'd rather kill, and kill on an epic scale, just to exact revenge.  The time is coming when reason won't matter- all that will matter is shattered health and broken dreams that can never be repaired, leading to a world where extraordinary violence is the only coin of the realm.

I'm at the age where I should have been saving for retirement for years- but instead, all my savings have been stripped from me.  What used to be a healthy 401K and a few hundred oz of silver has become a stunted number on a screen with no new contributions, and just enough coin to bribe a border guard (I hope.)  There's no time left to "recover" from that, and I know it.  They have tried to kill me and mine, and I will repay that in kind- the difference is, I never needed the ones who did this, but they have always leaned on men like me.

Tell that to your masters, boot-licker- and advise them to get better locks on their doors, not that it will matter.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

I never said the wealth was evenly distributed.  However, it is clearly more widely distributed.  Of course the system is completely distorted of the wealthy, by the wealthy, for the wealthy.  But that's a different problem.  Certainly the wealthy moved fast to outsource all manufacturing to China, and didn't give a shit what happened to the American worker.  On the other hand, for example, military people who are raising their families are running around in SUVs and eating lobster. Healthcare workers have never been paid more, and it's going up every year.  For these market distortions you can directly thank your government regulators, who have priced everything but captive interests out of the US labor market and overseas.

I see your issue everywhere.  Jeremy Grantham isn't your fucking answer though.  He's another one of these fucks who want's everything to stand still or go backwards.  All I'm saying is that there is plenty of opportunity.  The problem is the greedy fuckers who keep getting bailed out or leveraged by the same political asswipes everybody voted for.  You think America cannot compete?  Certainly it can.  But not with every fucking nanny, candy-ass, doucebag on the state and federal dole making up rules that hand the future of work to the Chinese, who by the way don't give a shit about our problems.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:46 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"For these market distortions you can directly thank your government regulators,"

Blame the Govt? they give the candy.  It's always easier to blame the rich.  It's the same story in every banana republic.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:52 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

In banana republics if you aren't in (control of) government you don't stay rich ... there is no functional difference.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

It's not a different problem.  Not to me.

I could give two shits about the guy in that interview- I was talking to you, not defending him.  

The long and short of the matter is that reduction in cost due to technology, which is a reality, means nothing if those gains are hoarded by a handful of psychopaths.  If they intend to force me into feudal serfdom, then as far as I'm concerned, we may as well tear the whole house down, and they can live as the feudal kings they so obviously admire- scientists and engineers won't staff their courts as slaves.  Technology will stop advancing, and they will return to the good ol' days when their kids fought with the dogs for scraps on the floor of the banquet hall, and they died in their 30's- and the Chinese, for whatever reason, aren't going to step in to fill that innovation void.  They make things cheaper by using psuedo-slave labor, but I don't recall a single instance newer than gunpowder or the mechanical clock where China lead the march of progress.

No matter how competent a manager or banker may be, they're not the people who make technology advance, and they've forgotten that.  I don't want technological advance to stop, but I'm certainly not on board with continuing to work to advance it for the benefit of people who very evidently would prefer that my family and I die.  

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:32 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

I have no love for the "singularity".  Singularity is another fucking fraud by your typical self-appointed piece of shit futurist, this particularly disgusting one also having a belief that the universe teams with life, although not one fucking sign of it has ever managed to reach Earth for some extraordinary unexplained reason.  Same caliber as all their other contrived heros like "Freud", the cocaine addict.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:51 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

I'm quite certain that you are the first one to mention the "singularity" in this discussion.

Many extraterrestrial forms of life have reached near earth, did they survive impact?

Denying that "life" can exist outside earth is like saying god is a fucking Anglo in the clouds, either intellectually dishonest, or humorously, completely shortsighted.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Well then you're fucking delusional on two counts, because 1) I didn't bring up "singularity" and 2) there has been absolutely no sign of extraterrestrial life forms contacting Earth.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:28 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Splendid.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:06 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Fuck you Otto.  It sucks.  You're a ghoul.  And he better not do anything nasty.  That's just not right.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:05 | Link to Comment acetinker
acetinker's picture

Prometheus:

I too, am in manufacturing.  My situation is different in that I actually own (if you can really own anything in this fucked-up system) the means of production.  It's a very small operation- I am the only employee.  Enough about me.

Anyway, if you've actually tried to do something productive in 'Merika during the past thirty years you have been looked down upon, penalized, laughed at, underpaid, over-taxed, outsourced and generally treated like a red-headed-step-child.  As Billy Blow-Job said; "I feel your pain".

However you feel about the parasite classes (curiously, they are positioned at opposite ends of the economic spectrum), you needn't kill them- or anybody else.  Better to use your obvious acumen to "do your own thing", and in so doing refuse in any way possible to support them.  That's what I do.  I won't do gubmint work- even if it seems superficially "good", because in the long run, it ain't.

It ain't easy.  You will find little support from those who rely on the status-quo (family included), even if they don't realize (or can't admit) they're dependent on the status-quo.  In short, starve the beast.  Yes, if enough of us do this, we will indirecty and negatively impact many we know and love.  IMHO however, it must be done.  It is the only way.  Look at it like this: would you rather struggle while making your masters rich, knowing that collapse is inevitable (it will take longer than you think), or struggle to maintain your own personal integrity.

Sorry for preaching, but if you are what you say, the world needs you.  It just doesn't know it- yet.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Right.  And stop kissing the ass of frauds like Jeremy Grantham who are simply playing you for a fool while he has his way.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 17:54 | Link to Comment acetinker
acetinker's picture

Never heard of Grantham b4 this article, and I really don't care who/what he is.  Our friend Prometheus seems near the end of his rope.  I was askin' him to tie a knot and hang on.  That's all.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Variance Doc
Variance Doc's picture

Do you grasp what technology IS, you moron?
 
It is the enablement of the use of energy.
 
Our technology has been the conversion of OIL joules into joules of other kinds...technology isn't magic that brings something from nothing.
 
Gallactically stupid people like you act like the oil age has meant less expenditure of energy because people don't have to carry shit.  It's actually the opposite; we consume VASTLY more energy in this supposed "more efficient" and easier reality than we did when we lacked the technology that is supposed to be our savior from the very issues that technology has created.

STFU until you comprehend this.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Are you fucking kidding me?  Go back to the 16th century and let us know how you like it.  I'm sure you'll get by fine with your windmills.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:14 | Link to Comment Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

 

It takes about 10 calories of fossil fuels to produce each calorie of food we eat.  Pesticides and fertilizers are made from fossil fuels.  In 1994, it took 400 gallons of oil equivalents to feed each American broken down as follows:

 

31% for the manufacture of inorganic fertilizer

19% for the operation of field machinery

16% for transportation

13% for irrigation

08% for raising livestock (not including livestock feed)

05% for crop drying

05% for pesticide production

08% miscellaneous

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:29 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

hey precious...sorry for all the red down'ies, but if you'd said 'hemp' instead of 'carbon'...i mighta got all hopefull with ya.

and promethious- you pretty much had him at the price of a pair of bose v.s. the cost of food. but that pretty much describes the misplaced priorities of those that think there are too many of us.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:43 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Hemp is excellent.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:57 | Link to Comment Quonk
Quonk's picture

...a topic about which we can finally agree.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:53 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

WTF is there to disagree about hemp? The only people who will disagree with you about hemp are the same people who get investments from stupid money by the likes of Jeremy Grantham and his tree-hugger, elitist family.

Mr. Hannelore Grantham serves as the Director of the Grantham Foundation for the Protection of the Environment. Mr. Grantham serves as a Trustee at Rare. He serves as a Member of the Advisory Board of Oxfam America. He serves as a Trustee of The Textile Museum in Washington, DC. Mr. Grantham’s professional background is rooted in education and publishing. He worked at New York based Stern Magazine, and MIT Press in Cambridge, and taught German at the Berlitz School as well as Brandeis University. Mr. Grantham sits on the visiting committee of the Museum of Fine Art in Boston. Mr. Grantham completed a B.A. and M.A. in German Literature at Brandeis University.

ZH has been conned, Mr. Grantham.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:52 | Link to Comment Random
Random's picture

Logged in to +1 hemp.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:19 | Link to Comment dunce
dunce's picture

You are the first person that made me log in just so i could down arrow you.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Congratulations.  For once in your fucking life you accomplished what you set out to do. Your parents can now be truly proud of their namesake.  Say hello to Mr. and Mrs. Dunce for me, dipshit.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Are you on meth?

Who the fuck stays up as late as you to troll this hard.

Take a pill, put down the pipe.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:59 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

Who stays up?  Somebody who thinks Jeremy Grantham is a disingenuous Brit cunt who pretends to believe in free markets while he donates money to the people who want to put an end to every form of human progress or investment.  Grantham is a fucking liar and fool.  Interest rates are irrelevant.  Sobbing chicken-littles like Grantham could give a rat shit about your job security or how you provide for your family.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:06 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

You sir are correct, watermelons are green on the outside but dark red on the outside:

Jeremy, together with Hannelore Grantham, established the Grantham Foundation For the Protection of the Environment in 1997. Substantial commitments have been made to both Imperial College London and London School of Economics to establish the Grantham Institute for Climate Change and the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment, respectively, which will enable both institutions to build on their extensive expertise in climate change research.[9] The 2011 tax filing for the Grantham Foundation for the Protection of the Environment shows the Foundation donated $1 million to both the Sierra Club and to Nature Conservancy, and $2 million to the Environmental Defense Fund that year. The Foundation has also provided support to Greenpeace, the WWF and the Smithsonian. Until 2012 Grantham funded a $80,000 prize for environmental reporting

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:20 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

You're acting like $1 million or $2 million are large sums of money, which is really funny (the avatar, oh, we get it).

2012 revenues at Exxon Mobil Corporation totaled $482.3B USD, while annual earnings equaled $8.40 per share. [source]

Exxon Mobil just missed setting a company -- and world -- record for annual profit in 2012.

The No. 1 U.S. oil company posted full-year earnings of $44.9 billion. While that was up 9% from 2011, it was about $300 million below the all-time annual earnings record for any company, the $45.2 billion Exxon Mobil earned in 2008.[CNN]

We can expect these companies, all of which rank in the top 10 of the “Fortune 500 Global Ranking,” to reveal billions of dollars more in profits, after earning $375 million in profits per day in 2011 ($261,000 per minute), and $368 million per day in the first three-months of 2012 — bringing their combined profits to $1 trillion from 2001 through 2011.

Below is a quick look at just how much these Big Oil companies are making, and where they are spending their billions in profits...

The entire oil and gas industry spent on average $400,000 each day lobbying senators and representatives to weaken public health safeguards and keep big oil tax breaks, totaling nearly $150 million. [source]

 

When people are spending $400,000 per day on pushing the "Climate Change Myth", I might buy into considering that it's a conspiracy. At the moment, it just looks like a really feeble nod to the notion that science is still important in America.

Scale: turns out you're not good at it.

1,000,000 for a year.

150,000,000 for a year.

 

I wonder which has the larger impact? (Hint: it's not the hippies)

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment Precious
Precious's picture

THESE GREEN PHONY FUCKS ARE THE EXACT REASON PROMETHIUS418 IS GETTING REAMED.

PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID NOT TO SEE IT.  THE POINT IS PROVEN RIGHT THERE.

BUT THE SHEEPLE WOULD RATHER GO AROUND WORSHIPPING THIS TYPICAL DECEIVER, JEREMY GRANTHAM, THE EXACT KIND OF PERSON AND AGENDA THEY SHOULD DEPLORE.  GRANTHAM'S NON-PROFIT CAUSES ARE THE EXACT REASON PROMETHIUS418 IS SO DEMORALIZED AND HIS EMPLOYMENT FUTURE IS SO PRECARIOUS.  

WAKE THE FUCK UP.  YOU DON'T HAVE A ROLE IN GRANTHAM'S WORLD VIEW.  EVERYTHING HE STANDS FOR REPRESENTS THE END OF YOUR LIVELIHOOD AND EXISTENCE.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:39 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

SHORT TREASURIES BITCHEZ!

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:12 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

There is plenty of technological progress and there is plenty of malinvestment and waste. When malinvestment and waste overwhelm technological progress, the donkey will fall over dead. Assuming that tech progress will always overcome malinvestment in a world where fiat is being printed and pumped at amazing levels everyday seems naive to me.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:51 | Link to Comment xtop23
xtop23's picture

Pretty tired of Rose. Bilderberg schmuck.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:57 | Link to Comment MythicalFish
MythicalFish's picture

Good questions too. "What bubble and when?". Seen this (on here?) quite a while ago though, repost shows how few sane people are being interviewed anymore.

 

(Dr Doom doesn't want to talk about his hurting butt so they invited momo muppet again. Sorry kids, Cramer on in a few minutes, just powdering his nose right now)

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:04 | Link to Comment Augustus
Augustus's picture

Rose cannot help but attempt to score a political point.

The real cause of the increasing debt level was the tremendous increase in government spending as a result of the LBJ Great Society programs compounding and expanding.  If you look closely at the numbers you can find that revenues continued to increase under Reagan.  Reagan had to deal with a Dem congress, expecially a House of Representatives which had had 40 years of Dem control.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:10 | Link to Comment dr.charlemagne
dr.charlemagne's picture

That is all true, but he also won the cold war with military spending at a pace that bankrupted the soviets who attempted to keep pace.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:36 | Link to Comment Helix6
Helix6's picture

A common misconception.  Or perhaps more to the point, a convenient fiction.  What actually sunk the USSR was the collapse in oil prices which pulled the rug out from under their financial system, which already sucked due to lacking a market economy.  That and Lech Walesa, the baltic states, etc.  Reagan gets credit for his "tear down this wall" speech, but the dissolution of the Soviet Union was mostly due to its poor economy and dissention within its own ranks.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:14 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Reagan was always an actor. He played his part well.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

Lech Walesa?  You serious?

The USSR had dealt with much worse dissent in E. Europe in the past, and they'd had a crappy economy for 70 years when Reagan took office.  I know it's chic to downplay Ronnie Raygun these days, but if you'd told an contemporary analyst in 1981 that the USSR would cease to exist in 10 years (without a nuclear war) they'd have had you committed.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:46 | Link to Comment enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

that is a myth

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:18 | Link to Comment Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Regan was good in the first term  -but he had traitors like the criminal George Bush and Ollie North  -people more interested in getting rich off the heroin and cocaine trafficing. In the second term he lost his best people  -many were indicted and harassed by a treasonous Democratic Congress - the elites consolidated power in his second term  -they really consolidated power under the evil Bush in the next term -they pretty much took over under Clinton -Bush 2 was a worthless, treasonous, piece of shit -he solidified their power. Obama ? What can I say -pure, corrupt puppet who has no real power and cant wipe his ass without permission from his Masters.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:31 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

Augustus

why did you forget to mention the $124 billion dollars the tax payer had to pay for the S&L thievery? You can't always try and hang it on entitlements and the working man. Your "Great Society" was really just a parlour trick to distract while the real criminals gamed the system ie. Rayguns buddies 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:32 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

what? and the extra spending from the pope and the chinese gold bonds that came due on 9/11 had nuthin' to do with it?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:36 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

JR

we talked about Raygun last week and you went with the: "he was an american patriot" schtick, again I beg to differ, he was in fact anything but a patriot, in fact he sold you out. Gravity's a bitch man

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

@mikla

"It hurts when you wake up." True that. Double true.

Someone close to me, when we were discussing the Swiss peg to the Euro, blurted out - "why would they do that? I mean it's bad for Switzerland, right? Why would the Swiss bank do something that's bad for their country?"

I sat back, silent. It's painful when the whole thing, top to bottom - starts to sink in.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:10 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Seize Mars - yep, all of us have been through that. It came over a period of time, or hit us all at once. The realization that all we'd been taught and believed was a lie.

And you see that your country is filled with too many criminals and traitors and childish fools.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:16 | Link to Comment Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

The Con is soon to blow up in the manipulators face. I notice more and more people waking up everyday.

 

http://sprottmoneyblog.com/

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:17 | Link to Comment vespasolo
vespasolo's picture

I watched the whole video...I think everyone should because the quotes picked by ZH seem to omit some

serious qualifiers when he talks about debt...particularly around to 50:45 mark.

 

As Zh promotes...question authority...even ZH authority.  

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Ya think? Welcome to the { local lodge meeting}...  Bend over so we can check you for cameras and recording devices<

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

It's just a matter of time.
Got rope?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Sure do, Gringo.

And the time left on the clock is running out real quick these days.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Nid
Nid's picture

It doesn't help growth, but it sure makes stocks go up...and that's all these pricks care about.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"We should worry more about the real world and less about the paper world."

Oh, you mean real things, like physical gold and silver? Maybe the paper humpers can weigh in on the GLD/SLV ponzis and enlighten us here.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:33 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

BOP are you a bit bummed out that the whole JPM vault thing went nowhere? I kind of am. It ends up feeling a bit like Geraldo Rivera searching for Al Capone's vault to me.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:43 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

It appears we will get no answers on the gold until the whole fucking thing blows up fonz...

Im 15+ years into this gold and silver matrix and not much closer to seeing where it leads. I might be dead and buried before the truth comes to light.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:54 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

15 years...holy shit. Congrats to u for keeping it together. this shit is maddening.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

15 years ago Gold was like $300-400 an ounce.  I suspect "keeping it together" is no problem for the guy.  He did good and I think he knows it.

I'm averaged in around $1100/oz. (OK, closer to $1200/oz. in reality) and I hate guys like him out of sheer jealousy.  For a LONG time I was just not a "gold guy".  Stupid asset- pays no dividend, costs money to hold.  Whocouldanodeit in 1999 when Communism was dead and the dot-com thing was "fundamentally changing the world?"  I didn't know there even was an "asset class" other than stocks.  What could possibly go wrong?  I did OK just bobbing and weaving in the stock market through that insanity, but if I had just bought gold I would have been well ahead of where I am now, minus the drama.

I'm stupid and late to the party.  As per the usual.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Tinky
Tinky's picture

Look at it this way: It's as if you arrived at the box office for a popular show and were shocked to see a long line. You stand, sheepishly, muttering under your breath about how stupid you were not to have anticipated the demand, and arrived earlier. Then, a few minutes later, you look around and the line is twice as long, and you realize that you'll be getting half-way decent tickets, while some of those behind you will either be standing, or won't get in at all.

You'll be just fine.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:00 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

<trollmode>

My biggest mistake was not committing more. The dollar-cost-average of what went overboard is about $600 for me, my first purchase at $282 per gold eagle (I think phyz was trading for $265.)

Crazier still I did after hearing the pro-gold arguments on a shortwave radio broadcast by a pretty whacked conspiracy theorist, but after contemplating them for months, I couldn't really dispute anything he said, and went ahead with a buy (though not from his advertisers, lol.).

Yeah, keeping it together isn't too hard, especially after losing it all in an accident, but drops like what we've seen still piss me off to no end, due to the sheer degree of manipulation it takes. At least it lets people get into the market, or replenish what's been lost to the sea.

</trollmode>

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:50 | Link to Comment Helix6
Helix6's picture

Drops such as you mentioned are irrelevant except if you're looking to buy or are forced to sell.  Getting pissed off at the drop is confusing value with price.  The price is whatever the algos push it to on any given day.  The value is what it will do for you or yours if there's a serious crisis.  Until then, it's kinda like being a spectator at a sporting event...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Ditto. I am sure your story is common across ZH. I too am jealous of those that were awake when gold was $400 an ounce. Well better awake then ignorant, even if our cost average is not where we would like it.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Helix6
Helix6's picture

The truth is that physical gold is a hedge against paper going poof.  Anything past that is speculation.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

This guy is an idiot,,,you need a robust economy before you build an infrastructure … The roads are built because we need to get to your jobs, don't build roads for make jobs ,,,,, If the economy is dead why build roads?????????????????????

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:01 | Link to Comment yatikto
yatikto's picture

you need infrastructure for commerce.  human commerce depends on connectivity. physical and virtual.

granted you need to be smart about it.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:18 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

What commerce do we have?????

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:28 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

You have it back asswords, If the economy was totally dead why would you need to build roads???? Yoy build roads to accomodate the need for people to get to their jobs.....BLS What jobs?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:09 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

If the economy is "totally dead" you don't need to do anything at all.  Just play X-box until you starve to death (or Syria turns off the internet).

I'm not quite at that point yet.  Even if it all collapses, I won't be at that point.  I'll be there picking up the pieces and building the next recovery as soon as the dust clears.  Or my kids will.  Whatever, whenever. 

Roads do much more than carry people to their jobs.  If fact, that use of roads is a relative after-thought.  A modern "oh, by the way" add-on responsibility for the technology.  Over most of history, roads' primary purpose was to carry goods to market and war supplies where they needed to go quickly and efficiently. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

He is a fool, however we do need good infrastructure for commerce. Businesses tend to follow the most heavily followed path. One thing that sucks ,as a business owner, is if you constantly have orange barrels blocking your drive when they are constantly half-assing the repair work.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:47 | Link to Comment nomorebuyins
nomorebuyins's picture

But wait, the O'savior promised shovel ready jobs. We will be saved soon enough.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:47 | Link to Comment Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

It was a slip of the tongue.  He meant shovels ready to pile the shit.  Paying school administrators and city employees with federal stimulus dollars was never a good idea.  It was an election idea.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:45 | Link to Comment Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Or you build roads and employers see the value of better employee and truck access, so they build factories or office.  The PA and NJ turnpikes are perfect examples of infrastructure leading to growth.  So were the east-central and west coast railroads.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:59 | Link to Comment Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

So where are the factories today? I suppose China has better roads? Is that what happened in Detroit? Their roads deteriated? My point is that a solid business infrastructure consisting of able workers, roads, favorable tax environment, fewer regulations, are some of the many things needed for investment. Roads without commerce mean higher taxes leading to dead cities like Detroit.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:58 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I will shorten Charlie's interview.

Buy gold.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Arrest him please before it's too late. How is Bernanke any different than Bernie Madoff?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:01 | Link to Comment neutrinoman
neutrinoman's picture

What he says about paper versus real is on the mark. We've been living beyond our means for 40+ years and radically piling up debt since the mid-90s.

We could have fixed this as late as the early 90s. But Greenspan and others saw to it that the challenge was avoided.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

CHARLIE ROSE: That`s when Ronald Reagan was president, `82.

No, Harriet fucking Tubman was president!?! Our media is a total joke.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:10 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And how many Reagan worshipers believe that said Gipper shrunk government?  Idiocracy.  It's not just good.  It's good FOR you.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Reagan got the whole debt boom started, didn't he?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:42 | Link to Comment Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Nope.  Reagan and Tip O'Neil got the debt boom started.  Reagan said "I'm going to cut taxes."  O'Neil said, "Well I'm not cutting spending!"  Reagan said "Fine. We'll see who ends up with the money, Tip!"  Reagan won.  His supporters won.  Union membership sank continuosly.  The factory jobs declined.  State and local civil servant pension funding was skipped, deferred, calculated based on dreamland assumptions so that MA, IL, and other workers could still be handed raises without doubling state taxes.  Reagan won.  The Soviets crumbled. The rich got richer.  It didn't have to be that way.  Tip could have had a different response.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

LTER

charlie is a subtle craftsmen, i give the benefit of the doubt and say he was being slyly sardonic to the rabid neo-repub who still pulls one off to his poster in their bedroom, in hockey it's called a face wash. You don't drop your gloves so you don't get 5 for fighting but you get to still smear some punks nose around his face with the palm of a sweaty glove that smells like an afghanny shit in it 5 years ago and it just came out of your bag for the game.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 All faith in public appointed leadership has been lost.  All faith in financial leadership has been lost.   Politicians are cartel leaders, and I'm old school. Hang em all>

  Enough kidding around. I said usd /jpy was going to squeeze.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:08 | Link to Comment Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

Charlie, why don't you tell us when the next bubble will burst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP6l39I47QA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVylJESBVv8

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:13 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

News Flash...

The Donkey IS Dead!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:29 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

So does that mean that it's no longer "ON" [like Donkey Kong]?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:16 | Link to Comment eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

OMG! What a fucking genius! We have been conned! WOW. / off

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:17 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

CHARLIE ROSE: Would Keynes have agreed with you about debt?

JEREMY GRANTHAM: I don`t know. I really don`t know. It`s such a different world now. The levels of debt are so much higher. He would probably have some ingenuous new theory.

lol...there's just what we need, another theory completely disconnected from reality.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:20 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

lol...there's just what we need, another theory completely disconnected from reality.
__________________________________

The world has already 'americanism'.
Position filled...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:24 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Roadside squatting crapmongery already has Chinese Citizenism.

Position filled --- only 1.3 billion job openings were available.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I see your new propaganda HQ is being mocked at home just like your comments are mocked here at the Hedge.

China Is Censoring Jokes About Its Propaganda Machine's Penis-Shaped HQ

"The People's Daily is the main state-owned newspaper of China's communist party, and everyone was pretty psyched about the paper's new Beijing headquarters. The building is massive, imposing, and, uh, currently shaped like a colossal penis."

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/05/peoples-daily-building-china-censorship/64845/

Dickhead.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:47 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

with sensuous ribs ;-)

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:53 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Fantasy, always fantasy...

'Americans' never grow weary of it.

As to being mocked on this site, save displaying a constant need to take shelter in fantasy, 'americans' do not something else.

But, hey, if 'americans' could stand that low level of reality, they would not take shelter in fantasy at any opportunity.

All goes that goes in an 'american' world.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:59 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Your conclusions are illogic in the AnAnonymist contextual framework and they deny the Chinese citizenist history.

As the Queen Of Hearts says:
"The rule is, jam yesterday and jam to-morrow, never jam today"

So you're just leaping in logics.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:00 | Link to Comment StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Oh, you beat me to it, mnewn!  I know it's just a transcription error, but such a good one.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:20 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

debt is a cancer. its biggest advocates have been the wealthy banksters who see debt as the way back to slavery.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Quonk
Quonk's picture

"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of merchants; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves,”

 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:25 | Link to Comment Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"but we have been conned into believing by the financial world that debt is everything."

Who is the "financial world," Mr. Grantham? 

 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:55 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Probably another mental fabrication to avoid mentioning 'american'.

The 'american' project has been built on debt since 1776, July, 4th.
Debt was intended to act as the fuel for the empire of liberty.

Way before 1913.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:37 | Link to Comment Nobody
Nobody's picture

I was telling my manager today that we were going to set up a garden spot for our employees so everyone would have something to eat if "all hell breaks loose".
His answer was illuminating: "Well, I thought everything is ok, the stock market is at its highest".
I used the ZH answer,"yeah, the stock market in Zimbabwe has reached it's highest level every year so far, too".

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

That sucks.

He's still a tightwad, but out DOO moved out of the city and got himself a farm a couple of years ago- he brings in veggies all growing season for any employee that wants them.  His reaction to the hundred-trillion dollar Zimbabwe note I carry in my computer case was a promotion and a not-very-comforting prediction that I'd be a millionaire sooner than I thought. Too bad he's a working stiff like the rest of us- I wouldn't mind much if he was the one who owned the joint.

Hell, he even offered to help me build a chicken coop.  Too bad the guard dog I got for my wife likes to kill birds- that yellow cur is fast enough to catch a flying duck out of the air, she'd be eating chicken dinners every day until I killed her or gave up.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:46 | Link to Comment Nobody
Nobody's picture

You're right...that sucks

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

Good grief ... Grantham's a fucking global warming zealot.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:44 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Well he is smarter than you.  Perhaps you should consider his position.  Or are you thoughtless as well?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Give a bankster access to unlimited money. Now there's an idea.

I just tried to ping syriatech.

From 72.129.33.0 icmp_seq=1 Time to live exceeded

I guess that settles that.

 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

2% growth/ I 'd love to see 2% growth...real GDP is -2% an dit feels like that out there also in the real world......I am anxiously awaiting this internet sales tax to kick in as well as a number of local tax increases hitting Main Street ....the postal rate increase kicked most online retailers where it hurts....these other taxes will cripple both sides of the equation--the sellers and the consumers.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:45 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

There goes UPS and FedX deliveries with internet taxes

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Fucking psychopaths.  They've eliminated any grownups from the system.

It's crash and burn, celebrated as the triumph of the evil over the virtuous. 

 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Jeremy Grantham:  For the love of God Alice! You slept with the Maid and the Cabana Boy?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:53 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

Of course Bernanke, Evans, Dudley and Yellen will keep whipping the donkey until it's dead. It's the only thing they know how to do.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!