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Visualizing The Collapse Of Fiat Currencies

Tyler Durden's picture


Presented with little comment - aside to note, it's never different this time...



and as a reminder...



Source: Ian McAvity


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Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:42 | 3539758 flacon
flacon's picture


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:45 | 3539770 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I'm not a crook...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:53 | 3539801 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Personally I blame Disco and Mr. T in the 70's and Gangsta Rappers from 2001 on...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:17 | 3539810 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

a 20 year miracle 1981-2001

fiat collapse put on hold


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:29 | 3539891 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The early 1980s is when Russia dumped 330 million ounces of gold on the market to support it's economy.  That act will probably never be repeated again.


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:50 | 3540201 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

One day, in the not too distant future, somewhere, there will be a board meeting a lot like the one in the movie ‘Margin Call’ where, it became obvious that the demise of the US Dollar was inevitable, that they should leave first, that Mark to Market was a joke, that fundamentals had been ignored if not forgotten, that the true value of Gold was well north of Spot and as limited in space, that the seemingly endless bouts of stimulus did little more than steal media coverage, that they had waited far too long to address this issue, and that rumblings were being heard.

That meeting, and the subsequent fire sale of US Bonds and/or leveraged assets which derive securitisation from US Bonds, will be the day everyone snaps out of their Fed induced myopic dream-state.

What is the value of all the assets, and leverage, which are supported by US Treasuries?

Sorry, aren’t we there right now……..who’s gonna pull the trigger first?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:57 | 3540274 Room 101
Room 101's picture

It won't be the US where it happens first.  IMHO, Japan is the first horse to go to the knacker.  Much more government debt relatively speaking, a long term demographic disaster looming, and a real trade war that could become a hot war with China.  And gold won't be the trade, US treasuries will be. For awhile.     

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:26 | 3540357 duo
duo's picture

and when Japan runs out of money, they will tell the ROW to clean up Fukushima or it goes critical and kills us all.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:59 | 3540797 screw face
screw face's picture

Fukushima / Zero Hedge............Bullish!

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:14 | 3540414 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

All the fiat sloshing around the world right now is shit paper. Only difference between them all is a slight deviation in pretty pictures and the label: "Made in (insert country name here)".

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:34 | 3540254 Freaking Heck
Freaking Heck's picture

Don't be so sure. There is always a Mr Brown lurking in the confines of politics. Stupidity is a pre-requisite for political office and central bankers have their memories wiped on entering office. Any knowledge of history is cleansed so that they can do "gods work"

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:38 | 3540371 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

so that's ~1000 tons or about 2.5x britain's dump 1999-2002? it seems that the correlation between gold & fiat is much more closely related to whether or not real interest rates are positive or negative over long periods.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 18:55 | 3542887 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

No, 330 million oz t is about 10 264 metric tons. That's a huge amount, similar to what the statists on the opposite side of the Atlantic dumped in the decade before the speech of the gentleman from the video.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 18:38 | 3542845 Long_Xau
Long_Xau's picture

I didn't know about that one. I thought them Ruskies were too secretive about everything and wouldn't release such info. It sounds plausible though. What is your source?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:44 | 3540033 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Yeah, the miracle of Derivatives and Credit Cards.


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:10 | 3539824 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

if fiat could speak

"I still exist!" -- Fiat, circa 1957

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:39 | 3539904 flacon
flacon's picture

A very good clip. I've often said, there is a fine line between zero and infinity. 


What is the price of gold in Zimbabwe dollars? Zero or Infinity? Yes. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:08 | 3539973 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

you had me at "zimbabwe"

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:42 | 3540189 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Get a room.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:10 | 3539976 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

you can't be serious.

The price of gold in Zim dollars is infinity. If it was zero I could buy the entire world's supply of gold for my $100 trillion note and have $100 trillion left over.

Where you're getting confused is $100 trillion Zim dollars will buy you zero ounces of gold. So $100 trillion / 0 = ? 

The only place you might say zero and infinity are similar is the center of a black hole, unless of course if it spews out into a white hole in another brane multi-verse.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:44 | 3540035 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

paraphrasing flacon:

a: how many zimdollars would you take for that ounce?
b: zero

a: ok! here are zero zimdollars!
b: sorry. no. I wouldn't take *any* zimdollars for this ounce.

a: that means infinity
b: no. that means zero. nada. no sale. 


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:31 | 3540452 flacon
flacon's picture

Yep. That"s what I meant. :)

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:11 | 3540864 Greshams Law
Greshams Law's picture

You're forgetting only Chuck Norris can divide by zero. And zero and infinity are only similar at the center of a roundhouse kick to the face.


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:09 | 3540063 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Dunno, Mr. T loved his gold.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:18 | 3540068 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

That's interesting, since old wrinkled white men have pretty much been in control of the whole show for centuries.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:57 | 3540117 putaipan
putaipan's picture

i am not responsible for my brother billy- reo speedwagon, bad company etc

i did not trade arms for hostages- spyro gyra.

i did not go into bagdad (kill jfk. etc) - madonna

i did not penatrate that woman- p.diddy

i accompished that mission.- american idol

i hopey changey. -lady gaga.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 15:22 | 3561822 HedgeHammer
HedgeHammer's picture

As sure as the shit that came flying out of his mouth ya have to hand it to him as he did say it with a straight face. AMAZING!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:46 | 3539771 american eyedol
american eyedol's picture

how come i never learned this in school?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:47 | 3539784 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You shoulda taken 'Contemporary American History' with professor Turgeson...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:14 | 3539849 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I was a junior in high school and was talking to my history teacher and somehow national debt came up ('71?) and I remember him quite clearly saying "The national debt doesn't matter because we owe it to ourselves." and looking smug. I knew there was something wrong with that statement but I didn't know what it was. I'd like to slap him with today's national debt.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:41 | 3539908 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

XXXXX doesn't matter = wrong.

How many times have we heard something doesn't matter when we know damned well it does?

Shit, if it doesn't matter then why even bother measuring it?  Your gut tells the truth when everyone else says otherwise.  It ALL fucking matters.  And you goodamned well already know it does.  Just a question of degree, based on the particular circumstances of the situation.

Right now the national debt and the yearly budget deficit don't matter because interest rates are at zero.  If they rise just 1%..... it will matter a fucking LOT.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:50 | 3540160 Debugas
Debugas's picture

interest rates can stay at zero forever because printing fiat money is easy (one does not even need to print it nowadays just enter some zeros into a computer)

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:31 | 3540363 wintermute
wintermute's picture

And this is the tipping point that Japan will find first.

Printing will eventually overcome credit destruction, then interest rates spike upwards. Govt goes bankrupt beyond all doubt, hyperinflation begins. Argentina on this road too...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:53 | 3539935 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

About the same time I had a teacher explain to me that governments could borrow money and never pay it back, just keep rolling the debt over forever. He was smiling as he explained this as if it was the cleverest trick ever.

This was just about the time the wheels were falling off the Keynesian gravy train the country had been on since he came of age in the Great Depression.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:20 | 3540174 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"We owe it to ourselves so it doesn't matter."


Yeah, like telling your spouse that you having an affair doesn't matter because it's just between the two of you.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:16 | 3539994 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Soon that chart will turn into a straight down waterfall.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 13:59 | 3541867 daveO
daveO's picture

Same beady eyes as BHO. Should've been imprisoned.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:43 | 3539764 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

This is your currency......This is your currency on fiat. Don't do fiat.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:54 | 3539938 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

They call it Fiat because it depreciates like a rusty Italian car.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:43 | 3540235 upWising
upWising's picture


Wed, 05/15/2013 - 02:06 | 3563774 ILLILLILLI
ILLILLILLI's picture

My friend from Europe says that FIAT translates to "in every part a little problem"...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:21 | 3540175 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

For some reason I'm picturing two eggs in a frying pan.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:32 | 3540365 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Was just one egg...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:40 | 3540259 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Maybe it's the fractional reserve part that's more of the problem than the fiat part...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:43 | 3539765 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

Bitcoin will be the inverse of this chart, naturally. Because that is where it is all being converted. Ever see a black hole? You can't, and when sovereign currencies pass the bitcoin event horizon, it takes another bite out of the conventional system, until they collapse on themselves.

The trend is just beginning, and it will start to accelerate over time.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:46 | 3539774 W T F II
W T F II's picture

Plus, people will be able to again say, "I'll give ya two-bits for it" and mean it....!!

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:46 | 3539781 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Ask any bit coin participants how they are feeling right now. Oh you can't because all web access has been shut down. If you can't touch it you don't own it.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:50 | 3539789 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

what do you mean?  mtgox is trading ~110 fiats

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:51 | 3539794 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I meant to say in Syria... Don't know what happened there.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:54 | 3539808 statelessman
statelessman's picture

All the bitcoin transactions going on in Syria will just merge with the blockchain when it comes back online, or they could be in the main blockchain right now just by a secret satellite connection.



Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:00 | 3539817 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Syria was just a test run for a future larger target.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:22 | 3539872 XitSam
XitSam's picture

But in this situation, as I understand, there will be a Syrian blockchain and rest of the world blockchain proceeding in parallel. When Syria comes back onto the internet, the two blockchains will be in conflict and the one with the most transactions since the split wins and the other loses. Or maybe the Syrian transactions get applied to the winner at reconnect time. However it is, because there are no "chargebacks" in btc, there appears to be a way for a smart person to use the same bitcoins in both blockchains and eventually someone gets screwed.  As always, I welcome corrections.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:36 | 3539892 akak
akak's picture

Good point.

You know, to me there seems something fundamentally flawed about any putative "currency" whose value and functionality inherently depend on dragging along the ENTIRE transactional history of that currency unit, however ostensibly anonymously.

When somebody gives me a silver or gold coin, or even a dollar, their prior transactions are irrelevant to their value or validity in the current transaction.  Not so with bitcoin, at least to my understanding.

Doesn't this strike anyone else as an inherent, unwieldy and eventually fatal flaw?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:59 | 3540051 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Absolutely, when everyone here is always saying the banks just move 1s and 0s around instead of actual cash.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:59 | 3540114 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Pretty sure TPTB will try to kill BitCoin this way.  I am guessing they will do it before BitCoiners have the ability to take over the silver market (which would require $3000/BTC).  Would say TPTB have a good shot at it too.  Time will tell if the nerds are smarter.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:02 | 3540243 css1971
css1971's picture

It is. It doesn't scale.

Distributing the block chain to everyone is a trivially dumb technical solution if you look at how it works for 5 minutes. It's ... naive ... In fact, it's more than that, It's so dumb that I'd personally have to describe it as sabotage at the design level. It doesn't pass the Hanlon's razor smell test.

Say it becomes hugely popular and you have half the world; 5 billion users and each performs 1 transaction per day. You have to distribute daily 5 billion Bitcoin transactions to the other 5 billion (minus 1) Bitcoin users ... you have to distribute 2.5 x 1019 transactions per day. That's 25 with 18 zeros after it. 25 quintillion transaction distributions.

To have any chance at all of making it work, they'll have to centralise the transaction history to a few transaction "gatekeepers" who provide some interface to the set of accounts which the block chain will become. The gatekeepers will be the TBTF banks. So you'd have 5 billion transactions * 4 TBTF banks or 20 billion transactions to distribute daily. It still doesn't really work but at least is manageable.

The alternative is multiple block chains, divided up between many gatekeepers, but you can then only transact with other people who use the same gatekeeper. i.e. Bitcoin becomes multiple regional currencies and you simply don't distribute transactions at all.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:44 | 3540309 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I don't think each user needs to have the whole blockchain. Definately do if they are miners. And I think there are other nodes that just help process blockchain transactions that do.  But I believe your analysis is correct, the NSA could overload the blockchain with transactions making it unweildly in a practical sense. The blockchain is now about 6 Gb.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:00 | 3540548 css1971
css1971's picture

The problem with centralised "gatekeepers" is we're no better off than we are right now. Peer to peer is done away with and we're back to centralised credit. Bitcoin doesn't give us any benefit.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 08:16 | 3540425 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

Dude I downloaded the bitcoin client and it took so many days to download the blockchain thingy, in fact it's still not finished, that I gave up. I wanted to just buy a couple of BTC and make a purchase to understand how it works. I decided not to bother anymore when BTC went sky high, crashed and then back to what it is now while still waiting for the blockchain to sync.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:51 | 3540194 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It's like anthrax.  Man knows that anthrax exists in nature and it kills people with some frequency.  Man also knows anthrax can be manufactured in lab to be far more lethal to wider segment of the population.  When a helpful person from from the government gets on TV and warns the sheeple about the massive threat of wealth destruction... you know to check your wallet. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:28 | 3540019 indygo55
indygo55's picture

I've got my bitcoins on a thumb drive. In my pocket.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:36 | 3540153 Likstane
Likstane's picture

I left the combination to the lock that fits on the cabinet that houses the map which locates the field that contains the hole that i buried the box that houses the key that fits the security box which contains the microfilm that discloses the location of the lake which is used for a decoy against my real stash of BTC written on the doorpost of a dilapidated shack 7.6 miles east on the trail bisecting Rte 47, 3.8 m N of Fontain MT. 

just kidding, I keep my Bitcoins in my underwear drawer.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:54 | 3540164 Debugas
Debugas's picture

someone with secret satellite can double spend his bitcoins once in syria and once in the rest of the world

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:02 | 3539961 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Syria has no Wall St and no online turbo tax. They can afford it.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:51 | 3539798 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Participants in Syria that is.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:48 | 3539786 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

gold, silver, land, food, energy & guns will also reflect that.  

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:24 | 3540180 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I can see it now...

The prostitute or the guy with gas or eggs or the person with the medicine you need BEGGING for your Bitcoin instead of Gold, Silver, Guns, Ammo, or your own food product in exchange.

I'm all for alternatives to fiat but TPTB are going to go after Bitcoin like flies on a carcass.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:44 | 3539766 W T F II
W T F II's picture

Any coincidence that Fiat re-launched the brand in Amerika recently..??

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:46 | 3539776 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Not really, but when they launch the Lira over here, you'll know the bonfire is about to be lit...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:44 | 3539772 Surrealist
Surrealist's picture


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:45 | 3539773 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's transitory.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:26 | 3540010 prains
prains's picture

not if that graph was an xray of a boner

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:47 | 3539783 buzzardsluck
buzzardsluck's picture

Holy Fucking Shit, thats all.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:49 | 3539788 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

You ain't seen nothing yet...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 22:58 | 3539812 GoldForCash
GoldForCash's picture

I sat in front of the TVthat night and thought well this is it. The beginning of the end. Took a little time but here we are.....

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:00 | 3539818 jeffgroove102
jeffgroove102's picture

Best post on zero hedge, EVER! Vindication! Especially for us goldbugs(for now) that are used to getting clubbed over the head!

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:26 | 3540140 Helix6
Helix6's picture

Clubbed over the head?  Are you selling??

PMs are more a hedge than a typical investment.  It's nice to see the price rise -- unless you're looking to buy -- but being bummed by current prices makes me wonder about the reason for acquiring them.  Speculation?

I'm a dollar-cost averager when it comes to PMs, mainly because I don't have the resources to do it any other way.  I personally loved the recent drop in price because my dollars go farther when that happens.  I would never sell except in a financial crisis, which is the reason for me to acquire them in the first place.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:37 | 3540993 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

I rthink he means a figurative clubbing.  You know, like a hypothetical baby seal.  Whap.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:08 | 3539819 akak
akak's picture

Fiat currencies don't "float", they sink.

Continually, everywhere and always.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:27 | 3539886 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Well, from personal experience with a boating accident, PMs sink really fast.  

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:34 | 3539898 akak
akak's picture

Someday, there is going to be a very rich man with a set of scuba gear and a good metal detector.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:41 | 3539910 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 James Camerons' clone.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:47 | 3540313 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Did you mean James Cameron's avatar?

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:53 | 3539934 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Well, yes, until he's spotted emerging from the water with his glorious find. The only persistant peril of PMs.


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:03 | 3539823 SelfGov
SelfGov's picture


This crashed right around the time oil production peaked in the US.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:04 | 3539827 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Man oh man, does that bring back memories. Sends shivers down my spine. And that was just the first act of a long, long play.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:06 | 3539834 blindman
blindman's picture
World Bank Whistle-blower: “Precious Metals To Serve As An Underpinning For Paper Currencies”
May 7, 2013 By The Doc

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:39 | 3540091 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

I have been thinking for a long time that they would do this, especially if they get to keep the debts tied to those currencies.  They might even maintain honest backing for a while.  After interest payments have inevitably sucked all remaining metal out of peoples' hands, the puppetmasters will start up the paper games again and buy up all real assets for nothing.  Any kind of PM backing would be disastrous without a simultaneous debt jubilee and abolition of interest.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:05 | 3540279 Room 101
Room 101's picture

A gold standard is great.  Until someone decides to get cute and debase it.  And someone always gets cute and debases it. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:09 | 3539839 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

I wonder how many times in his life Ian has been called Phil and whoever said it thought they were really funny.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:10 | 3539841 denverdolomte
denverdolomte's picture

Fiat  :: noun 

1   : a command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort

2 : an authoritative determination : dictate <a fiat of conscience> 3 : an authoritative or arbitrary order : decree <government byfiat> STRANGGGGEEEEEEE..........
Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:10 | 3539842 villainvomit
villainvomit's picture

FCOL....WOW VV IS SPEECHLESS.  I was five when this aired, same shiit lie lie lie bs lie bs crook lie bs ad nausum.

I am not a crook.......uhm yes, you all are.


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:16 | 3539856 MythicalFish
MythicalFish's picture

"To suspend temporarily". "To our friends abroad, including the many responsible members of international banking communities."

LOL. As full of shit as ever.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:31 | 3540145 Helix6
Helix6's picture

Nixon was an amateur. 

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:16 | 3539858 q99x2
q99x2's picture


Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:17 | 3539859 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    Don't visualize it too quick. I need to accumulate moar shiney stuff first.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:19 | 3539860 seek
seek's picture

Fascinating on a couple levels.

One, going off of the gold standard to create stability. LOL.

Two, Nixon taking a few minutes to explain what's being done, and how it affects people directly, with examples. Yeah, he's a lying scumbag, but when it's the last time a high-level Pol did something similar and exposed themselves and their plan? I can't think of anyone after Carter that's done the same.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:22 | 3539871 zerohedgeJUNKIE
zerohedgeJUNKIE's picture

What happen to the temporary suspension? It's been ahhhh 42 years now?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:22 | 3540000 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Well, after all that is  the Answer to The Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

You might be on to something there...

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:30 | 3539893 nomorebuyins
nomorebuyins's picture

What a fucking lying dick! I didn't know that everybody was so fucking stupid back then to buy this shit! I mean i know that everbody now is this fucking stupid.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:33 | 3540150 Helix6
Helix6's picture

Same back then as it is now.  Everyone knew "temporarily" meant "permanently" but there was nothing they could do about it.  As is often heard in financial circles, "it's never different this time".

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:33 | 3539897 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



Can we see this chart on a linear scale?


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:20 | 3540289 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yes you can, but the collapsing country part remains.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:53 | 3539932 Aquarius
Aquarius's picture

Gold has Value and Purchasing Power

Fiat has purchasing power only (unless you have a fetish for paper).

~75% of the people of the whole World believe culturally, traditionally and  innately in Gold (and Silver) while the rest hold paper and be-damned.

Keywords: Gold | Value |be-damned|

Ho hum

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:54 | 3539937 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

I swear, it's the best freakin' racket there is: some people create money out of thin air, loan it out and get money in return from people who actually work from 9-5 and get robbed by the government so it can pay the people that created "money out of thin air...".  Every night those SOBs probably nearly die laughing over how their jamming the red, white, and blue right up our asses......

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:01 | 3540165 Debugas
Debugas's picture

now ask yourself why people work for fiat ? This is the key

the answer is because they have to pay taxes in fiat and if they refuse they go to jail

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:34 | 3540231 css1971
css1971's picture

Take it to it's logical conclusion.


What happens if it is an unfair and corrupt system and you refuse to go to jail?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:21 | 3540291 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Just out smart them and they won't want to prosecute you.

Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:59 | 3539955 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Krugman claims he can fix the economy. 

So is he an Alien?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:01 | 3539957 chump666
chump666's picture

He is off his f*cking brain.  Aliens?  What does he smoke?  When they attack us (if those little midget green men are on the galactic prowl), they'll f*ck up goverments first, hit the central banks, destroy our crappy technology, take out our food supplies and kill us all. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:26 | 3540077 Aquarius
Aquarius's picture

You mean then that they are already here.

Ho hum

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:31 | 3540229 trebuchet
trebuchet's picture

Oil inflation will slow german growth:

using a quick and dirty regression: 


Dependent Variable: GDPCHANGE

 Method: Least Squares

Sample (adjusted): 1999Q2 2012Q4

Included observations: 55 after adjustments

Newey-West HAC Standard Errors & Covariance (lag truncation=3)

Variable Coefficient Std. Error t-Statistic Prob.  


C 0.004013 0.002491 1.611071 0.1132


GDPCHANGE(-1) 0.907337 0.088601 10.24067 0.0000

WTICHANGE(-3)       -0.023329 0.009709 -2.402767 0.0199

R-squared 0.733483    Mean dependent var 0.013119

S.E. of regression 0.013465     

Sum squared resid 0.009427     

F-statistic 71.55469    

Durbin-Watson stat 1.613371

Prob(F-statistic) 0.000000



... if oil prices are 10% higher this quarter compared to last year, German GDP 3 quarters from now will be 2.3% lower over the year.

  fitted values German GDP % p.a. of which oil 2007Q1 3.82% 4.19% -0.65% 2007Q2 3.92% 3.32% -0.25% 2007Q3 3.39% 3.25% 0.00% 2007Q4 3.52% 2.16% 0.20% 2008Q1 2.53% 2.06% 0.19% 2008Q2 2.10% 3.08% -0.15% 2008Q3 2.22% 1.06% -0.95% 2008Q4 0.16% -1.89% -1.20% 2009Q1 -2.78% -6.69% -1.48% 2009Q2 -6.67% -7.69% -1.04% 2009Q3 -5.52% -5.13% 1.00% 2009Q4 -2.33% -1.59% 1.88% 2010Q1 0.65% 2.79% 1.68% 2010Q2 4.18% 4.89% 1.27% 2010Q3 4.21% 4.43% -0.59% 2010Q4 3.00% 4.15% -1.39% 2011Q1 3.52% 5.06% -0.61% 2011Q2 4.70% 3.04% -0.25% 2011Q3 2.88% 2.54% -0.26% 2011Q4 2.28% 1.36% -0.41% 2012Q1 1.00% 1.68% -0.62% 2012Q2 1.54% 0.50% -0.37% 2012Q3 0.62% 0.39% -0.23% 2012Q4 0.54% 0.11% -0.21% 2013Q1F 0.70%   0.21% 2013Q2F     -0.07% 2013Q3F     0.11%


based on oil prices development to end of 2012 German GDP experiences a mild drag on growth in 2013Q2 and positiv boost in Q3.





Tue, 05/07/2013 - 23:57 | 3539947 chump666
chump666's picture

Add now the CAD, NZD and AUD to the list.  Central Banks are in overkill. Oil bid.  Great move you f*cked up academic Keynesian a-wipes

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:19 | 3539997 FinLen
FinLen's picture

ECB looking at buying bad loans from southern Europe: Die Welt report

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bundesdank not in favor but it could be that the ECB and Germany are preparing an early summer drama around "EU-QE".  The timng would be perfect.  We get the 1 month drop off the highs in May so the MM's can sell their current longs to the suckers now and then buy them back cheaper in a month or 2 before the ECB makes the announcement in a press conference that Germany is on board and Europe is saved........  Also, Germany will want time to be sure their terms are met, ie, political and financial control of the southern states.


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:46 | 3540039 chump666
chump666's picture

Could be.  The ECB has drawn a line on 1.30EUR.  They got that sweet spot, they will do anything to hold that line.  I hope the Germans get rid of Merkel with their elections, problem is EUR collapses, inflation will rip into Germany via oil inflation.  Either way, trouble will come from all sides. The ECB is fully funded by Fed loans/swaps to stay liquid without total devaluation of the EUR.  The USD is under attack now via the Fed and Obama, Asia/South America won't let the USD fall that hard.  It's messy and getting more chaotic.

Something is going to blow. Just when and where.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:02 | 3539963 Spectre
Spectre's picture

I fully believe right now that worldwide Central Banks will continue to print in concert. They will keep the fiat in check for quite sometime. They will continue to aggressively soften the precious metals with the help of the media. Therefore I am thinking of a further rebalancing to include more "Dirt & Diamonds".

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 00:03 | 3539964 Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

That chart seems off.  in 1975, an ounce of gold was about $150, in 2000, it was around $300 an ounce.  Not sure what the above chart is supposed to show but it seems misleading.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:37 | 3540154 Helix6
Helix6's picture

Looks to me like the classic "here's what's happened to the dollar since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913" chart.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:29 | 3540176 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

It also shows the Yen price crossing the dollar price. WTF??? Something is screwy here. In currency units per oz, Yen should be the largest number since there are ~100 Yen per dollar, and then dollars, Euros, and Pounds in that order. Excel error perhaps?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 01:02 | 3540053 Jungle Jim
Jungle Jim's picture


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:11 | 3540132 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Math/mind challenge (to see if people really understand math and money):

1. Km, m, mm, and nm are all SI units of measurement.  The difference is 'scale', which is absolute (rigid) and constant wrt a physical reference frame.

2. USD, EUR, DEM, YEN, and BP are all IMF units of money. The difference is 'scale', which is not rigid but is 'elastical', and not constant wrt a physical reference frame (gold).

As long as the USD or any other currency provides the global reference frame, who really cares!?  Math or Excel games allows one to navigate both worlds.  One could even argue that as long as one prints in unison and revalues in synch, that nothing really changes.

Challenge = Spot both:  the truth and the falacy.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:29 | 3540143 Debugas
Debugas's picture

80-ies gold crash on the graph looks like a minor set back. One can hardly even notice it

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:32 | 3540228 css1971
css1971's picture

It's all about energy. Oil became cheap & plentiful again. Productivity soared as machines replaced human labour, debts were easily paid.

What're the chances of that happening now? Cos that's what is required to "save the system". Are OPEC deliberately keeping oil price raised? Or is it involuntary this time?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:25 | 3540355 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

For OPEC to do that, they should have that power in the first.

They dont.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:29 | 3540144 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

I'm like every message I FB people I start with You fuckheads.....Oh I need to relax...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 02:31 | 3540146 dognamedabu
Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:26 | 3540182 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I'm thinking this means that most with a job who got a raise this year are making less than last year.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:23 | 3540351 espirit
espirit's picture

@ ebworthen

Ah, the old "greatest trick the devil ever pulled" meme for the sheeple.

Less = More

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:29 | 3540184 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

This is an epic speech. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:01 | 3540195 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Ah fuck there it was.. The American prez stated how it was to be.. Then we all were like shut up.. In the end - American hedgeonmy wins the day

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:28 | 3540362 espirit
espirit's picture

From another ZH poster, with slight modification:

Taoism: Shit happens.

Buddhism: If shit happens, it isn't really shit.

Zen Buddhism: Shit is, and is not.

Hinduism: This shit has happened before.

Islam: If shit happens, it is the will of Allah.

Catholicism: If shit happens, you deserve it.

Rastafarianism: Let's smoke this shit!

Bernankeism:  Let’s print MOAR shit!


Wed, 05/08/2013 - 03:58 | 3540200 observer007
observer007's picture
Former french Primeministier De Gaulle talking about Gold Standard


De Gaulle said a monetary standard based on gold would keep government spending in check and prevent the sort of economic crisis we are now enduring at the hands of the money masters.


Video from 1965:

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:14 | 3540210 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

That is great! Thanks!.


Seems we live in a time where they all scared to tell it like it is.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:21 | 3540217 FreeBull
FreeBull's picture

Here's another way of looking at the collapse your purchaising power...

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 04:26 | 3540225 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

OK so he really stated how this was to be. He really spelled out the way it was to go down. Read between the lines. Nixon totally stated what is what. Then Charles De Gaulle

This is solid gold..


Can you guys just hear the black and white bankers freaking? 




Wed, 05/08/2013 - 05:22 | 3540248 css1971
css1971's picture

Man, Nixon was either a cheating lying piece of shit who should have ben put up against a wall, or a moron puppet.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:27 | 3540358 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Have you considered the possiblity that he was both, much like our current ruler?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 09:18 | 3540624 css1971
css1971's picture

I prefer to think of them as evil rather than dumb.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:11 | 3540284 Shevva
Shevva's picture

Well speaking for the sheeple 'What you talking about?' my ten dollar bill still has a ten on it so how can it be worth less/worthless.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:13 | 3540285 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Repeating what has happened to 599 other fiat political currencies. The politicians and how they will screw the holders of these currencies is the counterparty risk that you must avoid.

Gold and silver can only be naked shorted for so long and the central exchanges for math-based bitcoin can only be subjected to DDOS attacks for so long.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:23 | 3540353 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

'Americans' have put the world on the path of depletion of resources.

No currencies will resist the impact.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:50 | 3540384 espirit
espirit's picture

"Americans have put the world on the path of depletion of resources".

No blame on the Spaniards, or Brits?

You are a fucking geographical racist.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 06:31 | 3540296 More Lint than Coin
More Lint than Coin's picture

Republicans are Democrats

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:32 | 3540964 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

War is peace. 
Freedom is slavery. 
Ignorance is strength.


We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:22 | 3540352 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Very funny. Best. Gold is somehow such an expression of the 'american' mindset.

-Gold is not circulated as a currency. Comparing to currencies as if gold was one makes only 'american' sense.
REAL currency and stuff...

-'american' goldbugs are a success story of fiat currencies. They are loading on gold through the massive use of fiat currencies. They do not trade gold to get more gold.

-'Americans' have put the world on the path of depletion of resources. In such context, currencies are going to lose value as they are going to buy less and less. 'Americans', contrary to their claims, never overcome the environment. They simply consumed it faster and bigger than anyone else.

-In another article blattering about the downfall of empires, speculation was put forward as a main cause.
Goldbugs are speculators, hoarding gold.

Welcome to an 'american' world, a world where 'americans' suspend any connection to reality save to run their excellent extorting of the weak, farming of the poor business.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:33 | 3540367 espirit
espirit's picture

Still own no gold, eh?

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 10:29 | 3540953 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

You missed another chance to buy onthe drop yesterday, not to mention last month's opportunities.  Moron.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:25 | 3540354 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Paper or digits or clad coins redeemable in more paper, digits or worthless clad coins. No inherent value, debt money except for the clad coins.  All can be taxed simply by printing (or creating) more, and they certainly have been (printing and creating more).


Did someone think this was going to end well? The only escape is to die before the collapse. No matter how well you prep, this will have an effect on you and your life, you can bet on it. When? Hindsight will be perfect, all other sight will be inperfect.


Mark my words.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 07:40 | 3540374 espirit
espirit's picture

+1 No truer words have ever been spoken, but you are preaching to the choir here on ZH, and the few detractors are most likely paid trolls seeking to defuse growing popularity for sound money.

Consider your analogy as a starting point for the uninformed, I may use it in the future.

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