This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

This Is What Happens As America Converts Into A Nation Of Renters

Tyler Durden's picture


Wall Street got into the single-family home business about a year ago. The win-win idea is to buy and rent until prices increase enough to make selling profitable. Investors can improve neighborhoods by fixing up vacant or damaged properties and providing lower-cost housing to people who are recovering from a foreclosure. But, as The Sacramento Bee reports, a responsible landlord is not guaranteed, and while no one is bashing renters, experts say it is human nature to care more for where you live when you own.

The idea of a long-term home means more attention is paid to its upkeep and more consideration is given to neighbors, but "renters can change the culture of a neighborhood," creating instability in neigborhoods since if there is any 'issue' (such as a strip club proposed nearby), renters are more likely to say 'I'm outta here', while homeowners will band together for a common cause.

The other potential problem is poor upkeep of rental properties leads to greater costs to communities overall since "renters have less tendency to take care of their surroundings." The problems are widespread but in West Palm Beach, FL (where landlords are required to get licenses), applications are up from 296 in 2011 to 399 last year with one entity owning 150 'unregistered' homes: "it's a free-for-all, there's no such thing as a community anymore."


Via The Sac Bee,

The fragile sense of community in homeowner Bryan Melzard's neighborhood - the impromptu chats on the sidewalk, shared gripes about overzealous condo commandos - is fading.




As corporate America sops up the remnants of the real estate crash, it's not only more difficult for the traditional buyer with financing to find a home; it also has planted a niggling concern about how it could change the fabric of the American community.




"Renters can change the culture of a neighborhood," said Alan Mallach




The idea of a long-term home means more attention is paid to its upkeep and more consideration is given to neighbors. Increased stability creates a bond to protect a common interest, such as if an unwanted store or strip club is proposed nearby.


"When you have a large body of homeowners, that neighborhood organizes in a millisecond around that kind of issue," Mallach said. "If you have mainly renters, an awful lot will say, 'Well, I'm out of here.' "




"It's out of control when local people can't find a place to live," said Paige, who didn't want to live in a high-rental community. "Everything is turning to rentals."...




it can be a slippery slope. Too many renters, Nye said, can lead to higher costs to the association, which may have to put in extra effort to maintain the property.




In West Palm Beach, new rental applications increased from 296 in 2011 to 399 last year, with a hefty number coming from international and out-of-state buyers, said Sandy Wuraftic, the city's license permit supervisor.


"It can be kind of a free-for-all," Melzard said. "There's no such thing as a neighborhood anymore."



- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:16 | 3543261 docj
docj's picture

They may not have a long-term dwelling, or a job, or food - but the Sheeples will all have absolutely fabulous stock portfolios. So it's all good.

[ / Fraud Street ]

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:36 | 3543289 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

Only the top 11% have experienced the wealth effect in any substantive way.  The rest of the population are still living in the great recession.   Contemporary Central Bankers aren't elected, but have caused greater income inequality than any government.  You can't un-elect them.  Moreover, most central bankers have adopted the ideology of printing, so even if one leaves, the next perpetuates the idea.  Bernanke leaves, Yellen continues the print lovefest.  Just as Bernanke carried on Greenspan's printing hard on.

There's a fundamental law that governs all of Nature: There is no free lunch.     The hubris of Central Bankers is that they believe they can mis-price risk without any catalysmic consequences. This is not going to end well.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:09 | 3543382 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

The Greenspam briefcase disapeared but the bubble money boner continued

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:50 | 3543403 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

OT: awakening

a: I'm thinking about giving up drinking coke
b: ok

a: maybe try diet coke
b: right

a: or coke zero
b: you're a coke loyalist

a: not really .. I drink sprite sometimes
b: you know that it's a coke brand

a: no it isn't. it called "sprite"
b: same company

a: I also drink root beer. barq's root beer.
b: still coke

a: doctor pepper
b: still coke

a: fanta. fresca. mello yello. tab.
b: coke coke coke and coke.

a: nestea iced tea
b: coke

a: powerade
b: coke

a: fruit juice! minute maid! fuze! odwalla!
b: coke

a: water! evian water! dasani water!
b: coca cola

a: Hi-C
b: coke

a: no way
b: it's all coke 

a: you're just talking crazy talk
b: ok

a: shit
b: yeah

a: all those "choices" in the drink machine ..
b: they are choices within the coke product line

a: maybe I'll just exit from the coke universe
b: ok

a: I'll look something up on dictionary dot com
b: barry diller

a: excuse me?
b: he's on the coke board of directors

a: so?
b: he's chairman of the board at IAC

a: so?
b: they own dictionary dot com

a: you're shitting me
b: mm

a: you're saying it's all diller?
b: ask dot com .. about dot com .. match dot com .. newsweek .. vimeo ..

a: you're killing me here
b: have a coke

a: how come I haven't read about this?
b: read about it where?

a: I dunno .. maybe in the washington post?
b: diller

a: the post? diller?
b: he's on the board

a:  expedia .. tripAdvisor ..
b: it's all diller

a: can I get out of the diller universe?
b: why would you want to


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:09 | 3543745 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

When you buy Coke products, a good chunk of the profits go to Warren Buffet, since he owns so much Coke stock.  Ditto for shaving with Gillette products.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 04:19 | 3543793 MeMadMax
MeMadMax's picture

Diller is a democrat jew....

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:17 | 3543636 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

AbFab!  :>D

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:41 | 3543721 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Those "homeowners" sure took care of da hoods they squatted in.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:28 | 3543291 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

If a condominium association does not have by-laws that set a minimum ratio of owners to renters at a reasonable level (say 70/30 in favor of owners), it can be the kiss of death for the property.  Renters generally do not care as much about the upkeep of the property as owners do.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:28 | 3543295 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

Until home prices fall to realistic levels, I'll continue renting.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:24 | 3543411 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture


I'm also not a buyer of college tuition at current prices, either. We're living in a country where straight-A students are saying no to college education and home ownership.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:08 | 3544136 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Validating that they indeed smart!  I went to college, got a master's, then a doctorate.  Damned if I have that much to show for any of it.  But  coming from a lower-middle class background, I was enamored of the prestige and probably easily taken in by the academic culture.  Never could stand the elitism, though.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:48 | 3543458 PeaceLover
PeaceLover's picture

Thanks never going to happen.
once again
why would the 99 familys not want your servitude in the form of you pay just to live somewhere?

google and watch the TED's

ted lesterland take the time.. think about it.. its not a side unless your one of the 99..

Thinks about it.. less than 99 people rule this deal.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:00 | 3543489 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Won't this trend lead to a "renters" market which drives down rental income, (competition for tenents) but at the same time drive up home prices (owners chasing rental income? Having a higher mortgage cost closes the spread on a dropping rental income. This hotter this gets the sooner the end must come. 

The cash home buyers (flippers) could be the trigger if they decide to start liquidating homes to realize gains. How do you sell a home with renters occupying it, renters who could give a crap how the home looks to the next buyer?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 10:28 | 3544468 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

To investors, homes are worth more with a tenant/good rental history...  so, to answer the question as to how you could sell a home if a renter is occupying it...  simple, you raise your asking price.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:40 | 3543664 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Fed has turned-on housing flippers and speculators. 

Any sound fiscally responsible rules have been replaced by the casino rules.

Last one holding the bag looses all.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:55 | 3543726 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Amen to that! One metric to use, to decide if it is better to buy or rent, is to look at the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) on a dollar basis, and on a per square foot basis.

Be sure to include ALL the costs of Ownership, including: mortgage interest, insurance (hazard, hurricane, tornado, flood), utilities, maintenance and repairs (house, yard, HVAC, pool), property taxes, burglar alarm, etc...  Best to do Excel comparisons.  If your TCO is, say, $1.25/sq.ft for owning, but $0.80/sq.ft for renting, you should rent.

It depends on where you live, but your TCO is often 50% higher than the P+I of the mortgage.  Then use the 3:1 rule of thumb. If (after down-payment) the Principal is more than 3x of your income, you will be 'house poor': Too much of your income is going into the house.

If you want to be really conservative, you live on the income of the "bread winner", and you save + invest the rest.  That way, if the bread winner experiences a layoff, the war chest is hopefully big enough to ride things out.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 10:36 | 3544511 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Don't forget to subtract out the tax benefits of home ownership from the total cost of ownership, with an expectation that many of these tax breaks will be phased out/eliminated in future years...

Also, I'd put a good rule of thumb at more 5:1 of gross income:home price in an environment of decreasing/flat wages and increasing taxes/costs, with an expectation of the ratio increasing in later years...  the old paradigm is over.

If you want to be really conservative, you live on the income of the "bread winner", and you save + invest the rest.  That way, if the bread winner experiences a layoff, the war chest is hopefully big enough to ride things out.

Bingo.  But, I contend this is the MOST OUTLANDISH thing to do in the present environment...  in other words, this is the most risk taking that you can possibly do...  your costs should be somewhere that if both of you get fired, that you can each take jackoff/quick jobs and keep up with all the payments...  plus having a couple years of savings in the war chest.  The grim reality is that there aren't but a smidgen of folks who can accomplish this, although, it isn't something that is solely for the wealthy or professionals...  it can be done by any socioeconomic class.  I would also tack on local/personal food production to the "conservative" approach...  of course, this is one of the necessities to having savings, but I digress.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:28 | 3543296 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

I am in CT in a town of  70k people. The town is broke. The annual deficit is about $2 mil. All landlords that do not live on their property are assess  a fee. Started with $150 per unit per year. The mayor got sued and a lot of people were protesting by being bus in to city hall marches. The price was reduced to $50 per apartment  per year. Once this starts it never going to go down. $500 fine if you have more than 5 police / fire calls per years. The capitol of CT, Hartford has more than 50% absentee landlord.  The city is a shithole.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:28 | 3543298 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Do you want communities or fistfuls of dollar bills?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 03:49 | 3543785 Redhotfill
Thu, 05/09/2013 - 03:49 | 3543786 Redhotfill
Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:35 | 3543312 denverdolomte
denverdolomte's picture

Most asinine business model on the planet, next to the Federal Reserves / Treasury Departments. "Housing Market On The Up - n -Up!!!" said every newsreel nationwide. Denver for example, rent at an investment property in a normal inner city neighborhood is going to run you between $1800 on the low end and $4000 on the high end, they only rent to single occupancy or families, not to mention pent rent, first last and security deposits to rent for a year. With out roommates or kids, I guess a couple could afford this or should I say would be willing to give up half of their combined monthly income back to the bankers and investors. 

Reality :: People are not out buying houses and haven't been for a long time because of the cost both short and long term. Investors have flooded the markets with home rentals at prices that are well above the average income of normal folks unless numerous people live within a house here. What these idiots have done is created another bubble that will break in the same way as the first one.


If anyone on here works for BUBBLEYUM or a company that makes bubble gum, can you please sponsor the Federal Reserve and Treasury Departments? 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:05 | 3543374 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Americans do not own anything.  Even after you pay the banksters - the county owns your house and property.  You are just a tenant.  Unless you love way way out in the boonies where the property tax is low then it is all a joke.  The govt owns pretty much most of your stuff and property.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:18 | 3543402 denverdolomte
denverdolomte's picture

+10 :: I completely agree. I have recently been beginning to understand the theorum around the difference between property rights and mineral rights. Even if you live way out in BFE and paid off your land, the governments still sell your land to energy companies to posses your land and make decisions about your land rights. Its F'ed in the A side. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 10:41 | 3544532 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Taking your land is one thing (constitutional)...  Stealing your land without offering you the opportunity to get market price for it is another (unconstitutional)...  the trick is to lawyer up and duke it out with them over the price...  and, in most cases, go to a jury trial and mop the floor with them (a jury of your peers seems to have your sympathy at heart much moreso than .gov's).  However, they will likely bottom dollar your ass initially...  so don't get nailed on the eminent domain cross.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:53 | 3545257 m0w0g
m0w0g's picture

Ummmm ... heard of the Kelo decision? Where someone did what you suggest all the way to the Supreme Court and lost? Screwed is hardly the word.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:40 | 3545462 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not at all...  I did not suggest that you could avoid the taking...  only that you could get just compensation for your property (market price).  Huge difference.

Kelo was decided on the issue of "what" powers the government has to take land...  not "how much" the government has to pay for the taking.  Traditionally, the most common takings are for roads/easements...  The government's (typically a state highway commission) M.O. is to fire away with a bottom dollar offer for the taking...  and, unfortunately, ~75%+ of folks go for it.  Some of the dollar amounts in dispute are too small to litigate...  but many are not.  You won't likely win on the issue of whether the government has the right to take it...  (that ship sailed long ago, and was expanded by kelo).

If you want to curb the taking, then the most practical way at this point is to ensure that everyone contests the takings and forces the government to pay up for the pleasure.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:44 | 3543449 hamstercheese
hamstercheese's picture

JTWROS - how married couples brokerage accounts are often titled = Joint TENANTS with rights of survivorship. What is a tenant?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:15 | 3543689 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

That's right.  It does come with rights of survivorship.  The welfare state doesn't want you to pass your property to your children after you die if they can't get a piece of it thru taxes.  Who's to say what that percentage will be when most "voters" are dependent on the govt. for survival.  I'm sure a slick politician could convince them that 100% is only fair.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 10:47 | 3544568 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You can have a joint tenancy with right of survivorship with different generations of family members...  you might have generation skipping tax issues, but it has nothing to do, inherently, with the type of tenancy.

In this context, tenancy simply means "an interest in personal property"...  the type of tenancy denotes the type of interest each respective tenant has in the property...  it has few similarities to "landlord/tenant law" in the proper sense...  we're dealing with legal terms of art, not their common usage.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 11:45 | 3544760 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

we're dealing with legal terms of art, not their common usage

like in the word person

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:44 | 3543666 edifice
edifice's picture

You own the house, the government owns the land it sits on.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:59 | 3543737 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

It didn't used to be that way.  You might as well live on a Reservation.  /s

And, technically, you don't actually "own" the house till you own the Deed.  The mortgage holder holds it till then.  What many call home "ownership" is actually a nice weasel word for a kind of "rent-to-own".

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:08 | 3544132 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

That's a great comment and all, but you realize same could be said of any country on earth; ultimately someone who s isolated and doesnt have guns owns nothing, only the people with weapons and cash do.  In a SHTF situation it4s always the most violent and cohesive groups who take over eveything the weakest might "own".

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:38 | 3543313 22winmag
22winmag's picture

It's called "owner occupancy". In the old days, it was difficult or impossible to get a mortage in a condo complex or neighborhood without a high double digit percentage of units that were occupied by the actual owners.


Condo buildings and even whole neighborhoods with low rates of owner occupancy are always shitholes. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:45 | 3543331 pickupthatcan
pickupthatcan's picture

Being a landlord/owner of multiple properties is the last place I'd have capital.  I believe Weidemer when he said that the shit will go so far south, that the Sheriffs will get tired of evicting folks.  The L/O will still be paying taxes with no income stream on property that won't sell, that's lived in by squaters. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:01 | 3543488 Parisnights
Parisnights's picture

Squaters or any other resident.  Neighborhoods will evolve (devolve)? into villiages.  Better   get to know your fellow villigers--sooner rather than later.

Bartering and neighborhood watches will become the new norm of life.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:02 | 3543741 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And you get to pay the Bailiff to evict the squatters, and for the disgusting clean-up for the mess that the pig-humans left behind.  You're better off paying for house-sitters till it rents.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 11:23 | 3544698 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

Sometimes I think the only way to do it (were you so inclined) is to build a quadruplex, live in one, and rent the other three, doing regular inspections, and all the maintenance yourself.

Doesn't scale well, though.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:47 | 3543334 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Frankly, renters, we don't give a damn. 

-The 7% 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:50 | 3543344 oilseed
oilseed's picture

Bullshit. I've rented a sf for the past seven years, notsofresh out of a divorce, CS, kids with me 1/2 time. Waiting for the correction to dip the toes into the RE swamp. Well 80 a month from the fed to prop up this pig just aint going to make me swallow the worm. I continue to rent, mow the lawn and paint the porch. Furnace breaks and yes, f'it, but I take pride in where I put my head and the community I keep. Ownership is secondary.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:14 | 3543392 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

You sir, are the exception, as are most here. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:11 | 3544145 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

that's because you re undecided with what you should/are going to do, nothing more.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:58 | 3543352 Judge Crater
Judge Crater's picture

The idea that you can make a profit renting out houses may have worked in the past but no more in most places, thanks to higher costs for insurance, for paying for documented labor and for raw materials and home repair supplies.  In damp climates like Florida, during some parts of the year, mold is an ever present problem, which is why homeowners there run their A/C all the time during the summer.  Ed McMahon, well known as Johnny Carson's sidekick on the "Tonight Show," got sick from toxic mold after a water pipe broke in his Beverly Hills home and the repair was not done properly.  McMahon filed a lawsuit in 2002 over the black mold. a lawsuit that publicized the dangers of black mold to everyone but the speculators now buying up homes in warm climate states like Florida and Arizona. If you watch the show "Holmes On Homes," you can only be amazed at the hidden problems Mike Holmes finds when he fixes up a house.  On one episode, he found out that drywall used in construction during the 70s and 80s often had asbestos in the drywall.  So removing the drywall cost more to handle the problem of airborne asbestos when taking down this drywall.  In many places now along the coast, it is prohibitively expensive and sometimes impossible to obtain hurricane insurance.  Another downside is that insurance companies will sometimes fight tooth and nail not to pay out after a natural disaster.  Sometimes renters even don't pay the rent.  Somehow, speculators who buy up foreclosed homes can always find investors to jump aboard these rent for profit schemes.  Those investors better be prepared to get wiped out.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:25 | 3543412 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

The idea that you can make a profit renting out houses may have worked in the past but no more in most places

Very true. I have a friend who is a young family man. Good education, good job, wife and two kids. When times were booming he purchased two town homes and rented them out. He had a positive cash flow, the renters were paying the note plus some and the future was so bright he had to wear shades. 

Then things changed. The "complexion" of the neighborhood darkened. The language, customs and culture of the area became "non traditional". The property value plummeted. Renters were consistently late paying rent. Damages and complaints and demands for "repairs" skyrocketed. 

He's now bleeding money and owns two mortgages he can't sell because nobody in their right minds wants to buy property in that neighborhood. The only tenants willing to live in the area are those you don't want to rent to. 

Rock and hard place. Damn shame. He's a nice guy who tried to do the right thing. I've learned it pays to be the old codger sitting in the back row muttering "bullshit" to all the new fangled fancy money making schemes. 

I'll stick to stacking physical, staying out of the 'market', and catching my dinner. I may be a redneck idiot - but I'm a solvent redneck idiot

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:06 | 3543504 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

location location location!   I live in a real nice burb on a lake, metro city planners decided to put in section 8 in all the nice hoods.  just finished building a large apt building in the middle of the burbs.   out of place eyesore already.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:57 | 3543738 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Don't worry - that Section 8 shithole will drag everything else down with it like a "black" hole.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:27 | 3543757 dunce
dunce's picture

It only takes a half dozen predators in that section 8 apartment block to ruin the neighborhood. Trayvon Marten wandering around looking your stuff over. Even without section 8 govt. organized crime plagues over a few years things can change and you must move to protect your children.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:15 | 3543523 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Ha!  He should name that show epynomous with his other one (Holmes Inspection):  We call it Holmes Destruction, and at the beginning of the show, the wife and I shout at the innocent home owners:  Don't open the dooooor!  Don't talk to the guy!   Don't let him innnnnn!   Your life will be destroyed ......

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:30 | 3543651 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Mike Holmes, unsung Canadian hero!

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 21:59 | 3543362 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

I heard this from a construction firm owner in CT. The town buys 3 family houses  and tears it down. The math: 3 floors, 3 kids per floor and $12k per kid. You can do the break even point yourself.  Of course, this is not advertized.  I thought that this is one clever mayor: I wish he was in my town. Schools budgets are supportedd by property taxes.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:06 | 3543378 ss123
ss123's picture

Some renters have no respect for the properties they rent. Puts owners in a bind.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:13 | 3543390 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Some renters don't even own a plunger. They call the landlord when the drains are plugged.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:33 | 3543427 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I have basic plumbing skills and a plunger is basically useless.  May as well have a stick.   I understand your grief if you are a landlord.  Tenants I have had are usually pretty smart but man they flush some dumb things down the toilet.  Little kids also love to see what they can flush down there too. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:37 | 3543433 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

A plunger IS useless when some stupid little brown fucker flushes a towel down the shitter. The resulting stench and mess reminds them of their native land- maybe it's a nostalgia thing.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:41 | 3543441 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Given I doubt you have traveled much out of the US, I will take your typical race-baiting nonsene with a grain of salt. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:46 | 3543453 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Mostly Europe(Switz,Italy,Ger,Austria for skiing)- not big on Third World riff-raff.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:52 | 3543465 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

Spoken like a true landlord - that is why I sold mine in early 2006....!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:35 | 3546197 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Dude a plunger is a necessity when you happen to drop one of those constipated-ass-busting-logs we all have occasionaly :-)

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:35 | 3543430 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I'm in IT. I have coworkers who earn six figures, have college degrees, rent and have no idea how a plunger works. 

I had a team member call in late a few weeks back. This guy makes 70 grand a year. His car wouldn't start. He didn't own a pair of jumper cables. He didn't know his neighbors and had no friends to call upon. He had to call his insurance company. They verified he had "roadside assistance" and dispatched a service truck to his home to jump him off. 

We have a nation of people who are completely incapable of caring for themselves at the most basic level. I do not see that trend reversing. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:39 | 3543436 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I would agree with this statement but it still doesn't mean a plunger is largely freaking useless especially in an older building or a building built in an area with strict water restrictions.  Buying a plunger is a waste.  Ditto Draino or anyof the other crap that is sold over the counter.  If you have a bad toilet, you need a snake and a good one.  Not one of those $15-$20 pieces of junk. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:41 | 3543439 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

My wife wonders why I don't become buddies with some of the neighborhood douchebags-I tell them they are worthless assholes whose mastery of the masculine arts basically means they can start a mower. I prefer the company of my 3 and 5 year old boys.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:44 | 3543450 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

You constantly rant on here about racist cr@p on all types of people and generally seem to be a pretty miserable guy who thinks that almost all other people are idiots/scumbags/etc.  You must be a real treat to live with. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:49 | 3543460 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Read Machiavelli's The Prince-that is kind of my guideline for living life.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:53 | 3543468 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

That is a political treatise.  Not a guide to life.   

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:03 | 3543495 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Better to be feared than loved.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:13 | 3543629 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:11 | 3543622 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yeah but Otto's been to Italia, Schweiz, Osterreich, and Deutschland skiing and I doubt you have so you are a douchebag.  I like St Johann in Austria and Madonna di Campiglio in Italy.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:32 | 3543654 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Europe used to be a lot cheaper before the Euro. That's why a breakup would be better for the tourist-y countries.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:11 | 3543691 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture


The Prince is a very good summary about life in general.  Machiavelli observe Italian city states and how they interacted. Many textbooks were written using the Prince as basis and applying it to business practice.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:40 | 3543761 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

If you have a couple of psychoses and believe in endless internecarine warfare maybe.  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 11:04 | 3544642 Meatier Shower
Meatier Shower's picture

It's human nature.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:14 | 3543749 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If you're The Prince (Elite ruler), it's the same thing -- for all intends and purposes.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:40 | 3543760 dunce
dunce's picture

The best way to have good neighbors is to be a good neighbor and i go out of my way to be helpful and pleasant. Believe me it works, just do not count favors other than to make sure they owe you a couple and hope you never need to call on them for a payback. The payback is they all like you.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:46 | 3543454 potlatch
potlatch's picture

some renters have been making or having babies as their sole productive activity since they were in their teens.  you are asking for way, way too much savoire fare with this plunger nonsense.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:18 | 3543401 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

Some day soon.....we all will be the force.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:42 | 3543445 PeaceLover
PeaceLover's picture

LOL some day?

how many decades old is this post.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:37 | 3543431 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Most Section 8 tenants I have had too are fine.  In fact, give me a Section 8 family that works a lot of hours over college kids/young professionals under the age of 30 who live 3-4 in a unit any day of the week.  Those are the absolute worst tenants to have.  Trash the place (especially carpets/floors and walls) which your security deposit doesn't cover. 

You can still make a really nice living as a landlord.  You just have to live close by, be prepared to give up free time, and know how to do repairs yourself.  I have always found it be a good trick is that I will rent to a tenant and give him a deduction on rent if he/she mowes the lawn, shovels the snow, etc.  You almost always attract someone who is a hard-worker & will take care of your unit for a rather modest fee. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:43 | 3543447 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

You're welcome for the $ for your Section 8 lowlifes that the govt funds with my taxes. Fuck Section 8 and... you know the rest.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:49 | 3543459 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Rather have them as a tenant than a guy who is generally a misanthrope.  I can't believe you are married and have 2 young kids.  Section 8 comes in all types.   I wish there were more families around but I generally rent to Latino families with both parents work full-time (somtimes 2 jobs/piece) and don't have issues.  In fact, they are often great tenants.  They are low-wage but they work hard and generally don't screw around/trash the place as long as they don't have kids under 3-4.    

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:52 | 3543466 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Everyone is racist-don't let that "smiling mexican" act mean you should let your guard down.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 22:55 | 3543474 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I would agree to some extent that everyone has cultural bias even racist thoughts from time to time.  Hating someone simpl based upon skin color, religion, or ethnicity is just a waste of time.  End up bitter and wasting too much time.  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:14 | 3543631 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Section 8 comes in all types?  Yeah the types who ruin any decent neighborhoods where slumlords turn apt complexes into Section 8 housing.  You are as bad or worse than Bernake. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:34 | 3543657 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Be nice to see the %s in Section 8-but that's probably locked up with O's real birth certificate.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:45 | 3543728 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

The word you are looking for is "slumlord". 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:14 | 3545626 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

I hate Section 8 because it enriches gooberment connected landlords and pays them high rents for substandard housing.  The payments go directly to these scumlords and are  just another get-rich-off-the-gooberment scheme. 

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:08 | 3543510 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

Section 8 - these really must be great properties. The only good renters I had were old ladies and gay guys. They took care of the place and never called.

I just told all renters that if a fire started just take all the time you need and call the fire department in the next hour..........

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:14 | 3543519 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

2 well built houses in the 20s/30s and turn a high margin because they are free and clear.  Not a huge profit maker but they max out my ira and stuff my kids college accounts.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:17 | 3543527 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

In fact - I would have stayed a landlord is all renters were gay...the decor was excellent and they kept things very clean.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:22 | 3543539 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

Best thing is no kids under 5.  I won't rent to young kids under 30 or people with a cat.  Cats ALWAYS piss on the floor and cat urine is impossible to get rid of and it destroys the wood even under carpet if the cats piss enough in the same spot.   

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:17 | 3543528 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

In fact - I would have stayed a landlord is all renters were gay...the decor was excellent and they kept things very clean.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 07:48 | 3543917 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

You may have a new business model there.  Have good insurance and rent only to pyromaniacs and alcoholic smokers  ;-)

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:05 | 3543611 Yohimbo
Yohimbo's picture

Heh, they actually mow the grass after making that deal?

Now I know youre lying.

If they do I know its your lawnmower and they break

it or toatlly destroy it everytime they try to start mowing the grass,

then leave it broken in the rain, grass half cut,

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:49 | 3543730 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

No it is there in the shed at one of the places and no they don't break it.  I get it serviced once in the spring and keep gas there. Why do people on here assume that everyone else is a POS, degenerate, etc? 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 04:07 | 3543787 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

WTF  I never seen a  §8 tenant work/ keep a job for 30 days.  Usually they get a job long enough to buy enough booze / drugs etc to go on a week long bender then go to jail, and let their worthless relatives move in while they are in jail and destroy the place.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:03 | 3543491 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

The only way the U.S. would become a 'nation of renters' is if you did away with the mortgage interest deducton or severely curtailed it.  It was good economic policy in the 50s/60s but it has resulted in a lot of negative consequences too including urban sprawl, too much capital investment in residental housing, and a huge tax subsidy for the wealthy and upper-income levels largely.  

Frankly I wouldn't mind seeing the mortgage interest deduction only be used for your primarily residence (no secondary homes) and it reduced it size a bit.  It would really hurt real estate just like the '86 tax reform did but in the end it would be better economic policy.   

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:15 | 3543520 Icantstopthinki...
IcantstopthinkingaboutNINJAs's picture

Compare Mortgage interest rates back then and compare them now.


There is no real mortgage interest deduction when a 30 year mortgage is at 3.25%

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:16 | 3543696 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture


Only about 27% take the advantage of mortgage deduction.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 03:12 | 3543769 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

With the AMT probably even less

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:10 | 3543511 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture



Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:11 | 3543515 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Suburbs turning to slums as hoods turn to >16% renters who have no stake in caring for the house OR the community. Add that to the zero-down buyers who also have little or no stake in the place and you have the result --  a rapidly run down neighborhood/slum. It's happening all over now. I won't evcen get into the proiblem with the section 8 renters...that's for another article.

Wed, 05/08/2013 - 23:32 | 3543556 atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

So all renters are bad people.  Fuck you.  I rented for a lot of years when I was a young man and I was responsible and a good neighbor.  


Property means you get to decide what to do with it.  If you can't rent it out, you don't own it.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:38 | 3543660 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

White,male,property owners- the good old day in the US when only they could vote.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:53 | 3543675 W74
W74's picture

Very true.  I grew up in a neighborhood that had only one black family out of 72 houses, and they had jobs and their kids were already grown and gone.  Now that same neighborhood, according to the property records database, is changing drastically because a lot of the homes are owned by entities with names like Aramco Investment Properties, LLC or National Mortgage Corp or American Property Management, LLC, etc.

It's easy to check the records and see what percentage of homes are being used as rentals.  If the owner of the property has a different mailing address than the property itself it's a rental.  If the name is a company than even moreso. While not all renters are bad people it's not a far stretch to get some bad ones, especially if they're section 8 entitlement scum who care about nothing except their own immediate gratification.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:19 | 3545976 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Yes the good old days when only assholes like you could vote.  Real fun for everyone else.  I have nothing against white males in general, just the arrogant whiners who think they're now persecuted because they don't always get their way anymore.  Or bitch about how everyone but them is a loser.  Pathetic.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 10:19 | 3544406 RKDS
RKDS's picture

So far on ZeroHedge we've only been seeing one side of the story - the rentier's.  Are there bad tenants?  Sure.  Are there stupid do-nothing absentee landlords who believe themselves entitled to massive profits on their inferior product?  Absolutely.  I can't tell you how much I hate rentiers who contribute no actual value to the market yet dutifully come with their hands out and pitch a fit when the market doesn't satisfy their every demand.  And when these "entrepeneurs" are dependent on government, through section 8 subsidies, wow, don't even go there.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 00:45 | 3543667 yogibear
yogibear's picture

I hear Obama wants to start loans again to those with a lower credit score again.

Get a Obama house and live in util they kick you out. A couple years of rent-free would be good.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 02:04 | 3543743 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Wants to? It has been happening for at least the past few years.  Even longer if you are the correct skin tone.  Yeah I did not believe until I heard first hand stories on who Bank of America and others would give a mortgage too.   White people with good credit need not apply.  Not kidding.  This was about2 years ago.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 08:13 | 3543963 JMT
JMT's picture

maybe in what are considered 'up and coming areas' but not in the traditionally affluent areas (think the western suburbs of Boston or most of Fairfield County CT ). Let me just say that the people you are thinking of are not to moving to these areas...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:43 | 3543704 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

In my community of 90,000,  investors are buying homes for $20,000 to $30,000 that sold in 2005 for $100,000 and up. They are getting rents from 750 a month and up.  A fair amount of these single family rentals are section 8 subsidized.  Section 8 is still paying 2005, top of the market, calculated rent subsidies for homes that were purchased at 1970's prices.  I don't know what the rate was back in the 70's,  but I would think that a recalculation of the formula to bring the value of the subsidy more in line with the current purchase prices would be the logical and fair thing to do for the few working people left who are supplying HUD with the cash to continue this fucked up farce of a program.  I believe HUD also compensates the landlord for some percentage of "client" damage, to boot.  Talk about a profitable business. Rent to own is also frequently offered.  That way the renter feels they have some skin in the game without putting any money down beside a rental deposit.  I would think they would be much less likely to trash the property, and more likely to pitch in on the maintenance. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 04:15 | 3543791 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

As a landlord you need top of the market rents because after they leave you will burn 6 months+ of rents to fix everything, amazing how much damage those piggies do just trying to pack up their shit.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:18 | 3544180 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

It all depends on how long the renters stay. I have seen some renters stay 10-20 years, landlord makes TONS of money after one time remodeling!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 01:52 | 3543731 MeBizarro
MeBizarro's picture

I am always amazed that guys like Otto (generally a miserable prick who points out how everyone else is inferior for some various reason) get so many thumbs up on here.  Usually on the same posts around the same topics. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 06:06 | 3543836 JMT
JMT's picture

Many if not most people also believe that they are better than everyone else and constantly point out (in their mind until they are with their closest friends or drunk) how everyone else is inferior but don't actually say it because they are too concerned about offending others.  you think the average person really gives a shit about others and wouldn't screw someone over given the opportunity? 

You sound pretty think skinned and fake. stay in southern CA or the midwest where you have all these fake passive agressive types

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 06:02 | 3543833 JMT
JMT's picture

I had a team member call in late a few weeks back. This guy makes 70 grand a year. His car wouldn't start. He didn't own a pair of jumper cables. He didn't know his neighbors and had no friends to call upon. He had to call his insurance company. They verified he had "roadside assistance" and dispatched a service truck to his home to jump him off.

Why is it the neighbors or friends responsibility ???

A) Unless you are in a place like rural arkansas or Buffalo NY (you get the idea) $70,000 isn't alot of money. If you are in NYC with federal, state, local income tax and 8.875% sales tax it is barely enough to rent an apartment in any halfway decent neighborhood or out in the suburbs of Long Island or North/Central jersey that doesn't require a 90 commute each way to work. 

B) I don't own jumper cables (would have no idea how to connect them) . would just call a tow truck even if I had to pay out of my own pocket (yet sometimes you need to do those things)

C) how does having roadside asisstance make this person 'incapable of caring for himself'.?? 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 06:02 | 3543834 JMT
JMT's picture

I had a team member call in late a few weeks back. This guy makes 70 grand a year. His car wouldn't start. He didn't own a pair of jumper cables. He didn't know his neighbors and had no friends to call upon. He had to call his insurance company. They verified he had "roadside assistance" and dispatched a service truck to his home to jump him off.

Why is it the neighbors or friends responsibility ???

A) Unless you are in a place like rural arkansas or Buffalo NY (you get the idea) $70,000 isn't alot of money. If you are in NYC with federal, state, local income tax and 8.875% sales tax it is barely enough to rent an apartment in any halfway decent neighborhood or out in the suburbs of Long Island or North/Central jersey that doesn't require a 90 commute each way to work. 

B) I don't own jumper cables (would have no idea how to connect them) . would just call a tow truck even if I had to pay out of my own pocket (yet sometimes you need to do those things)

C) how does having roadside asisstance make this person 'incapable of caring for himself'.?? 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:13 | 3544156 thefedisscam
thefedisscam's picture

Your team member needs to get his head checked. He can buy a professional Booster for <$150, which will last him decades, as long as he remember to charge it at least once every 3 months. Super easy to do the jump start himself/herself, even a kid can do it.

Why depends on others for this kind of minor thing?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 07:30 | 3543898 Graph
Graph's picture

In Rockwell America (long time ago) to own a home: definitely YES

In WB-7 America (current): definitely NO.

As simple as that.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 08:06 | 3543950 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

It's very late in the game to worry about neighborhoods or sense of community - al least in the large cities in our country. The communities were killed not by renters but by destroyers of the middle class and the ability to have a job paying the salaries to support such neighborhoods.

There was a time when a 25 year old newlywed could buy a home in one of those neighborhoods where 30% of household income could support a mortgage. There was a time when this family could establish family roots with others of his generation as well as 1 or 2 older generations. There was a time where community meant that you knew your neighbors on both sides of your city block.There was a time when you lost your job you could get one within a few weeks or at worst a few months.

i could go on, but what is the point? That time no longer exists. It has been slowly erased from the collective memory of individuals and society. The biggest social crime however is that the lessons of that time will not be learned by those currently in the 20's and 30's. They will not be able to enjoy the fruits of this community while raising their children among the shared fellowship of their generations.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 08:21 | 3543976 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

I have a duplex, but I occupy both units as a single family dwelling....I need the space.

If I got my tit in a wringer, I could easily convert to two units, but I don't want to do that.

My mom did it for twenty years and she had mostly very good luck.  IIRC, she only had one eviction during the entire time.  There were lots of "good" renters to rent to from the seventies through the eighties.  My mom rented to young people, responsible types, grad students and young people/couples starting out.  It all worked out well for her; she ALWAYS demanded references and she had her lawyer craft a TIGHT lease.

Here's the rub.  I doubt that it would be so easy for me to duplicate what she accomplished now.  Times have changed, there is more competition for quality renters; and fewer of them.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:02 | 3544107 JMT
JMT's picture

{{Here's the rub.  I doubt that it would be so easy for me to duplicate what she accomplished now.  Times have changed, there is more competition for quality renters; and fewer of them.


are you kidding me? the average rent is over $2,000 in many areas. In NYC close to $3,000, in most of CT and Massachusetts it is very tough to find a one bedroom apartment for less than $1500 a month and I was paying just under $3,000 in an older building in Stamford CT back in 2009. 

Landlords typically require applicants to earn 40 times monthly rent in annual salary and credit score of at least 700. Property mgmt companies & real estate brokers now run credit even before they show you an apartment. 

Here in the Boston area, it is crazy in terms of competition to find an apartment not just the areas around Boston but in most towns in eastern Mass (east of I 495).  You are competing with alot of rich recent college grads who may be making an entry level salary but mommy & daddy are able to pay the rent for a nice apartment. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:11 | 3544148 TrumpXVI
TrumpXVI's picture

Real estate conditions are all local.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 08:24 | 3543993 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

This the final ONslaught on the private ownweship of property.When banks own the property, which means gov owns the property thIS IS the end game.  If you still think you 'own' your property they will tax it (according to their political/ideological bent) . Remember, the power to to tax is the power to destoy.  Who do they destroy? 

Look in the mirror. Left is right, right is left.

Doesn't seem to far off to say the fed gov will own a majority stake in property of the states.


Without private property, whither freedom!


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 08:51 | 3544076 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

It's not the federal government but state and local governments at the county level, that will destroy home ownership through taxation. The county will always get their tax - they will never cut back on their budgets, pension plans and infrastructure. Visit your local county assessor and county collector and see what I mean.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:20 | 3544188 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Yes, so what? The end game is that the Fed will own these assets through their mortgage financing schemata. Local taxation only reflects this reality.Budgets, pension plans? It's all a piece. And you will lose. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:04 | 3544115 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

And the moral of the story here is... if you re poor and cant afford to own your house in a good place with appeal, pay it cash, you re going to have a hard time surviving next events. If you own an house in a good neighborhood, you ll have to also own guns, ammo and have good relationships with your neighboors to defend said neighborhood from the hords of people who will want to take everything you have by force.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:21 | 3544191 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

"since if there is any 'issue' (such as a strip club proposed nearby), renters are more likely to say 'I'm outta here'"


Apparently, I am the only one who finds that statement odd and somewhat humorous.  But seriously, one reason, and a very good one at that, is that job instability is a real problem.  You have to stay mobile in the new normal.  You can't afford to have an albatross hanging around your neck.  Besides, as both a renter and a homeowner, I can most assuredly assert that you do not own the home but rather that the home owns you as well a great deal of your free time.  Now get your checkbook out and replace that rotten fascia with some cedar already.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 09:27 | 3544219 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

yup, 'the destroyers' were those who wanted more for themselves, more profits, outsource those jobs & replace them with $8.50/hr jobs!   i was telling a young man behind the counter at the gas station that we are going to a new monetary system & he needs to get rid of his worthless paper money for p.m......this young man got a blank look on his face &  said, "what's a monetary system?"    i just wanted to cry.  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 10:34 | 3544504 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

The worst renter my wife had in her property in Italy American GI.  Idiot didn't even take his trash out.  Just kept stacking it INSIDE the house. 

My worst tenant in Arizona was a shadow renter, which meant she didn't even live in the home, just let her drug running buddies store their stuff in the garage.  Their little scheme was only discovered when their competition (or maybe insider) broke into the empty home looking to score their stash.  Otherwise, great tenant (rent on time, no wear & tear)!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!