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Are We On The Verge Of Witnessing The Death Of The Paper Gold Scam?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

The legal claims on physical gold far exceed the amount of physical gold that the banks actually have by a very, very wide margin.  And right now the bankers are scared out of their wits because their warehouses are being drained of physical gold at a frightening rate.  So what happens when their physical gold is gone but they still have lots and lots of people with legal claims to gold?  When that moment arrives, it will represent the end of the paper gold scam. 

Many believe that the recent takedown of the price of paper gold was a desperate attempt by the bankers to put off that day of reckoning, but it appears to have greatly backfired on them.  Instead of cooling off demand for precious metals, it has unleashed a massive "gold rush" all over the globe.  Meanwhile, word has been spreading among wealthy families in both North America and Europe that they had better grab their physical gold out of the banks while they still can. 

This is creating havoc in the financial community, and at least one major international bank has already declared that it will only be settling those accounts in cash from now on.  The paper gold scam is starting to unravel, and by the time this is all over it is going to be a complete and total nightmare for global financial markets.

For years it has been widely known that the promises that banks have made regarding their gold far exceed their actual ability to deliver, but we have never reached a moment of such crisis before.

Posted below are quotes from people that know precious metals far better than I do.  What these experts are saying is more than a little bit disturbing...

-CME President Terry Duffy: What’s interesting about gold, when we had that big break two weeks ago we saw all the gold stocks trade down significantly, we saw all the gold products trade down significantly, but one thing that did not trade down, was gold coins, tangible real gold. That’s going to show you, people don’t want certificates, they don’t want anything else. They want the real product.

-Billionaire Eric Sprott: So we see all of these paper (trading) volumes going through that bear absolutely no relationship to what’s going on in the physical markets. As you know I have always been a proponent of the fact that supply in the gold market was way less than demand, and by a very large factor. I think demand exceeds supply by at least 60%. The central banks are surreptitiously supplying that gold, and ultimately they will be running on fumes.

When we hear about the LBMA not willing to deliver gold, and JP Morgan’s inventories at the COMEX have gone from 2.4 million (ounces) down to 160,000 ounces, it just makes you realize that all of this paper trading means nothing. It’s the real physical market that you have to rely on.

-JS Kim: FACT #1: COMEX gold vaults were recently drained of 2 million ounces of physical gold in one quarter, the largest withdrawal of physical gold bullion from COMEX vaults in one quarter during this entire 12-year gold and silver bull. There has been speculation about the reasons that spurred these massive withdrawals of gold from COMEX vaults, but the most reasonable speculation is that no one trusts the bankers to hold on to their physical gold anymore, especially in light of Fact #2. Note below, that both registered AND eligible stocks of gold had heavily declined in recent months. Such an event signals a general distrust of the banking system from everyone holding gold in registered COMEX vaults.

FACT #2: One of the largest European banks, ABN Amro, defaulted on their gold contracts and informed their clients that they would only settle their gold bullion contracts in cash and not in physical. So much for the supposed legality of financial contracts as a "binding" contract. So whether Fact #1 caused Fact #2 or vice versa is irrelevant. What IS apparent is that the level of trust in bankers to safekeep physical gold and physical silver is disappearing, as it should be, and as it should have already been for years now. But truth always takes some time to catch up to banker spread lies and that is what is happening now. I have been warning people never to trust bankers in deals involving gold and silver for years now, as in this article I wrote nearly four years ago informing the public that the SLV and GLD are likely a banker invented scam as well.

FACT #3: Silver fraud whistleblower and London trader Andrew Maguire stated that the LBMA was having trouble settling gold contracts in bullion as well and stated that institutions that asked for physical settlement “were told they would be cash settled instead by a bullion bank.” In plain English, this is a default. So Andrew Maguire reported that the LBMA had already gone into default. In light of Fact #1 and Fact #2, the dominoes were starting to tumble and the house of cards that the bankers had built in gold and silver paper derivatives to deceive and hide the true fundamentals of the physical gold and physical markets from the entire world was rapidly starting to crumble. A financial earthquake of magnitude 2.5 was quickly threatening to evolve into one of the biggest financial earthquakes of all time in which the world’s confidence in all global fiat currencies would effectively have a well-deserved funeral.

-Jim Sinclair: I think the reality is the supply situation is extremely volatile at this point, and even discussing it is like rubbing a raw nerve to the people who are in charge. The amount of discussion on the subject of warehouse supply, supply that is represented by the gold leases, indicated to the central planners that the demand for physical was going to continue to effect the exchanges.

Although they did not expect any grandstand delivery, the mere continued draining of physical inventories was threatening the very functioning of the paper exchange. That threatening of the paper exchange and its ability to continue functioning is really taking off the blinders and revealing the truth behind the critical question, ‘Where is the gold?’

The question now is, ‘Where has the gold gone?’ Who has all of this gold? Because of the nature of gold leasing, all of this gold has been purchased and it has gone somewhere. The reality of the empty vaults reveal that the gold has gone missing.

-Ronald Stoeferle: We’re seeing this rush to physical gold not only in the retail market, but also for the institutional players...[it's] just overwhelming…I [estimate] a 130-to-1 [ratio of paper to physical gold]…and I think in the last week we were really close to [triggering] a default of the paper market.

-Gerhard Schubert, head of Precious Metals at Emirates NBD: I have not seen in my 35 years in precious metals such a determined and strong global physical demand for gold. The UAE physical markets have been cleared out by buyers from all walks of life. The premiums, which have been asked for and which have been paid have been the cornerstone of the gold price recovery. It is very rare that physical markets can have a serious impact on market prices, which are normally driven solely by derivatives and futures contracts…

I did speak during the week with several refineries in the world, of course including the UAE refineries, and the waiting period for 995 kilo bars is easily 2-3 weeks and goes into June in some cases. A large portion of the 995 kilo bars in the UAE goes normally into the Indian market, but a lot of the available 995 kilo bars are destined for Turkey, at this time. We heard that premiums paid in Turkey have reached anything between US $ 20 and US $ 35 per ounce.

-James Turk: Another indication of the demand for large bars is the huge drawdown in the gold stock in COMEX warehouses. It is noteworthy that COMEX reports show the drawdown is largely the result of dealers removing their inventory, their working stock. When that happens, you know the availability of supply is constrained.

What all of this means, Eric, is one thing. If the central planners want to keep the precious metals at these low prices, to meet the demand for physical metal they will need to empty more metal from central bank vaults, or borrow metal from the ETFs as some have suggested is happening. Otherwise, the central planners will have to step back and stop their intervention, thereby letting the price of gold and silver rise so that demand tapers off, bringing demand and supply of physical metal back toward some kind of balance.

We've seen this same situation several times over the last twelve years. It is what I have been calling a “managed retreat.” Despite the current weakness, I firmly believe we have again entered a critical period where the central planners will need to retreat once again in order to let the gold and silver prices climb higher.

-The Golden Truth: And then I get a call from a close friend in NYC last Friday.   His career has been in private wealth management in the private bank department of the Too Big To Fail banks.  He's been looking for work and chats with old colleagues all the time.  He called my Friday and told me he just got off the phone with a very high level private banker from a big Euro-based TBTF bullion bank, but who was at JP Morgan until about six months ago.

This guy told my friend that there is a scramble by many very wealthy European families/entities to get their 400 oz bars out of the big bank vaults. He knows this personally, for a fact.  He said the private banker community is small over there and the big wealthy families all talk to each other and act on the same rumors/sentiment.  The Bundesbank/Fed and the ABN/Amro situations triggered this move.  He knows for a fact JPM tried to calm fears about 3 months ago by sending a letter to it's very wealthy clients assuring them their bars were safe, in allocated accounts.  He said right now those same families are walking into the big banks like JPM and demanding delivery of their bars or threatening to take their $100's of millions in investment portfolios to competitors.  His wording was "these people are putting a gun to the heads of private banks and demanding their gold."

I know this information is good because I know my friend's background and when he tells me his source is plugged in, the guy is plugged in. Not only that, my friend's source said that there's no doubt that someone like a John Paulson, not necessarily specifically him, but entities like him or it may include him, have held a gun to GLD and demanded delivery of physical in exchange for their shares.

Regarding the Bundesbank/Fed situation, recall that the Bundesbank asked to have some portion of its gold sitting - supposedly - in the NY Fed vault in NYC sent back Germany. The total amount is 1800 tonnes.  After behind the scenes negotiations, the Fed agreed to ship 300 tonnes back over seven years.  To this day, the time required for that shipment has never been explained.  Venezuela demanded the return of its 200 tonnes held in London, NYC and Switzerland and received it all within about four months.

And regarding the ABN/Amro situation.  ABN/Amro offered a gold investment account product that offered physical delivery of the gold in the investment account when the investor cashes out.  About a week before the gold price smash, ABN sent a letter to its clients informing that the physical delivery of the bullion was no longer available and that all accounts would be settled with cash at redemption.

I believe it was these two events that triggered the big scramble for physical gold by wealthy families/entities who were suspicious of the integrity of their bank vault custodial arrangement anyway.


So what does all of this mean?

It means that we are entering a period when there will be unprecedented volatility for precious metals.  There will be tremendous ups and downs as this crisis plays out and the bankers try to keep the paper gold scam from completely unraveling.

Meanwhile, nations such as China continue to stockpile gold as if the end of the world was coming.

According to Zero Hedge, Chinese gold imports set a brand new all-time record high in March...

Quite the contrary: as export data released by the Hong Kong Census and Statistics Department overnight showed, Chinese gold imports in March exploded to an all time record high of 223.5 tons.

And the number for April is expected to be even higher.

Does China know something that the rest of us do not?

We are also seeing a rapid decoupling between spot prices and physical prices.  In fact, it is quickly getting to the point where the spot price of gold and the spot price of silver are becoming irrelevant.

For example, demand for silver coins has become so intense that some dealers are charging premiums of up to 30 percent over spot price for silver eagles.

That would have been regarded as insane a few years ago, but people are now willing to pay these kinds of premiums.  People are recognizing the importance of actually having physical gold and silver in their possession and they are willing to pay a significant premium in order to get it.

We are moving into uncharted territory.  The paper gold scam is rapidly coming to an end.  In the long-term, this will greatly benefit those that are holding significant amounts of physical gold and silver.


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Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:26 | 3546163 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Gold, bitchez!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:30 | 3546174 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

I'm off to the LCS. comments from Mr. T?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:39 | 3546198 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Rather than paper take downs, the next attempt to scare people out of holding physical outside of the banking system will be to publicize an extremely horrific and violent breakin/robbery/murder for the victims' stash...and it will probably be real news (what else does HLS need 1.6b bullets for?).

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:42 | 3546225 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

The end of paper gold is a meme that is getting more traction lately.  Why not go to the Master himself?  But, you will need to put in the time and energy to get the most out of FOFOA:

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:47 | 3546237 true brain
true brain's picture

"have held a gun to GLD and demanded delivery of physical in exchange for their shares".


Are you kidding me? Such hyperbole, anyone with guns would be the central bankers and their goons, CIA, FBI, PD of all cities, National Guards, US armies , etc and they will blow Paulson's brain out, or your brain out before they capitulate and let there be a free market for anything. Such naivete is not worth fight club. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:15 | 3546323 Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

Tin foil hat report

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:45 | 3546430 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I don't know. All I hear people talking about is the whole abduction thing in ohio. Cheap thrills and no thought required. Good guy/bad guy. Mass judgement and fuzzy feelings of belonging and justification. That's all that really matters to the masses.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:09 | 3546500 new game
new game's picture

you are correct for another reason, they are living paycheck to paycheck and would rather buy some gold colored weed first, anyways.  they could give a shit about silver and gold. most people are worshipers of da almighty dollar and watch the nightly news.  after reading this, remember you are the fringe element of society...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:38 | 3546552 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I know... I know it just frustrates me when I entertain thoughts of justice and of humanity pulling itself out of the financial, social and political quagmire that we find ourselves in currently and then I leave my house and people are just fucking talking about their babies or their grandbabies or fucking sports for fucks sake.




I'm all like "Your world is breaking and crumbling all around you and you don't even fucking see it!"

And they're all like "Your crazy!"


Wow solid argument brah.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:46 | 3546572 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

This war has been going on for a very long time.

There are greater powers involved than the TBTF banks.

Don't worry about those who have given themselves up.

Save as many as you can.

It's our time now.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:19 | 3546640 Stackers
Stackers's picture

As the Hunt Brothers could tell you, when the paper precious metals markets turn against the powers at be, they simply change the rules of the game

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:55 | 3546719 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

When the Hunts garnered the focused eye of the federal Govt., the federals had 2 billion ounces of physical silver to fling at them.  They have gone through all of that in the ensuing 30 years.  Now they have 2 billion bullets to throw at the market.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:57 | 3546724 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

There are Powers, and there are Powers.

The ones you are afraid of have had their way for twelve thousand years.

Our time now.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:18 | 3546767 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Do the Lizard people look like geckos, or chameleons?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:42 | 3546825 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

They look like obama when he's running up or down the stairs to Airforce One.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:35 | 3546980 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

+ 1000 TPH

Only thing better would be that he was re-enacting a scene from planet of the apes ...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:52 | 3546846 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



They're chameleons cleverly disguised as inbred humans.  Think the Bushes and British Royals.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:11 | 3546897 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture


Do the Lizard people look like geckos, or chameleons?

They look like me.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:17 | 3547111 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Right on Mick +10!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:03 | 3546871 Jafo
Jafo's picture

The difference this time is that the hoards are distributed.  There are the stackers that hold an average of ten ounces each and whos number is legion.  Then there are the central banks who are hoarding that cannot be assailed by the Feds without a declaration of WAR!  The Feds will think about that but if they spreadsheet the costs they will decide that they cannot afford that option.  They will only be able to afford capitulation.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:13 | 3547094 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $55,000

Excellent comment.  

Please comment all you want to in the future, please!  FOFOA has also written that gold is worth more when it is broadly distributed.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:17 | 3546759 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I find it more productive to ask questions that require someone to conduct some research:  "What is Money?",  "Do you know what the Mandrake Mechanism is?", etc.  "It's like a splinter in your mind, Neo..."

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:41 | 3547001 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

The masses can not fathom that we have been hoodwinked....duped...perverted...lied to...poisoned...on all levels, by people that are suppose to love us and care for us.


We are out numbered, out resourced, out witted, out muscled by a dark force.


Every single nation has been inflitrated.


We could have strength in numbers...but the masses are not in tune...brainwashed...walking, sexting, pepsi drinking, facebook absorbed, narcissist, assimulated zombies.


Fri, 05/10/2013 - 00:01 | 3547200 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Every single nation has been inflitrated.


I will bite Blotto as I enjoy your comments, by who or what?

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 01:14 | 3547295 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Thank you BringtheG...


In a nutshell, imo, royal bloodlines that have been passed through the generations that started since Day 1. 'They' think its their divine right to rule over us. I believe they are sun-worshippers - masters of time and space...they rule us with the calendar, i.e, pagan holidays, that appear year round that coincide with astrology.

I believe that their is important information in ancient scriptures, texts, sea scrolls, Book of Enoch, etc...but things have been omitted and manipulated along with actual truths contained within. They also leave clues behind as they follow a different set of laws that i think go together with numerology, astrology and sacred geometry.

The last thing as a logical person i wanted to think about was occult things and hocus pocus...but i think thats exactly what it is...thats why its unfathomable for the masses to comprehend and believe that this is happenning. I know it sounds nuts...but the good people of the world can not be losing the coin-flip every single time...this unlucky...the 'best of the best' has us in this fuckin shape? Now add in all these conspiracies events, financial crisis, agendas, monsanto, vaccines, autism, perversions, unmoral behaviors, 50% of population anxious,etc,etc,etc,...its like you have to now start thinking all fantasy like...and sure enough there it is.


Its hard to describe in a few paragraphs of course to explain it would need to explain it with illustrations on a massive gymnasium wall to get an understanding and full shock value.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 03:01 | 3547402 BellyBrain
BellyBrain's picture

Yep, and that's just the tip of the iceberg showing in the visible light spectrum...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:04 | 3547069 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"I'm all like "Your world is breaking and crumbling all around you and you don't even fucking see it!""


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:45 | 3546693 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

This why in major events like mass extinctions only a fraction of a specie survives.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:00 | 3546861 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Or is that why in mass extractions a fraction of the specie survives....

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:22 | 3546527 knukles
knukles's picture

One observation about the demise of the Spot Price.

Many folks have stated recently (And I have no reason to doubt them, albeit with no personal confirmation/experience with respect thereto.) that the Spot Price for silver and gold has become irrelevant, detached from the futures (paper) prices.
That may very well be true in that one cannot transact on the buy side at the "Quoted Spot" prices, being forced to pay very significant premiums.
However, what that says to me is that the "Quoted Spot" price is NOT the "True, Effective, Real or Actual" Spot price where physical delivery takes place within a proscribed settlement time frame.

Indeed, if there are transactions taking place at their "True Spot" comprised of the Quoted Spot plus the Premium, then the Effective or True Spot is for all intents and purposes the Real Spot.

The quoted Spot is an artificially low chimera being quoted lower to constitute a fictional financial testimony that prices have indeed truly fallen in concert with the slamming of the paper prices.  Which they have not, as in fallen as far as quoted. 

So, I'd agree that the Quoted Spot is artificial and meaningless... but is in fact replaced with the True or Effective spot constituted by the Quoted spot plus premium.
The rest is a fiction comprised of lies and deceits.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:54 | 3546584 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Run Spot, RUN !!!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:54 | 3546462 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture




"Why not go to the Master himself?  But, you will need to put in the time and energy to get the most out of FOFOA"


The guy is on the right track,

if only he could learn how to write for the average person,

he could get so much of his message across to so many more people.

I'm not sure why he cannot cease writing in such dense, turgid prose,

and simplify, simplify, simplify.

A Wise Person once stated "If you cannot explain a complex concept in language a 12-year-old can

understand, you need to rethink your explanation."


So True.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:25 | 3546530 knukles
knukles's picture

If you cannot write your presentation on the back of a business card, get bigger business cards.
Or sticky tape a whole bunch of 'em together.
Business cards, not presentations.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:05 | 3546877 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Or in the case of an Elevator Pitch, hit emergency stop button.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:30 | 3546539 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


As a general rule I agree with you re being able to concisely explain most ideas in a simple way (I have heard a variation saying that if you cannot explain a business idea in one elevator ride, forget getting any money from the V.C...).

I am going to make a guess or two here.  His Freegold idea is alien and complex, and so is not too conducive to being explained quickly.  Also, I believge FOFOA prefers to err on the side of being logically complete, building his case brick by careful brick.  This makes a long version necessary.  A (much) shorter version invites attack on his logic.

Still, there is an effort underway by various followers in FOFOA-land to condense his writings into something more digesitble, so that a wider audience can be reached.  But, do note that Jim Sinclair has blurted out some FOFOA like comments recently, and Nick Barisheff just wrote a book called $10,000 Gold...

The idea of Freegold is getting around and getting traction...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:54 | 3546581 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture


I have to tell you, while I can, that I love you because you have the only avatar in all of Fight Club that shows an industrial implement.

If I care for any metal more than silver, it would be steel, and steel ball bearings.

Better than precious metals, better than money, are the people who do things, and the people who make things.

Keep doing that thing you do. 

Keep the world turning.


-------------------------- Mick .


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:01 | 3546598 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

There are two ZH-rs who have industrial-looking things (a gear, and some kind of other widget).  I feel that it is important to to emphasize the real thing...  

You wouldn't put a paper bearing in your car wheel would you?

52100 steel, the "other" PM...   :)

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:02 | 3546600 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I have industrial looking things all over my face but I can't get this goddamn bag off my head.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:14 | 3546629 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Take the bag off.

No more time to be afraid.

One half of the future for our people is industrial-looking things, and 3D printers, and rocket engines, and sunlight, and asteroids, and vacuum.

The other half is earth, and wind, and trees, and magic, and water.

None of it is reptilian bankers, or secrecy, or national security, or fake money, or fear.

Our time now.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:27 | 3546786 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"Our time now."

Who is "Our?"

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:32 | 3546803 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

the goonies.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:45 | 3546829 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Well, Spirit is good, but the nirvana-esque can be disconcerting...

When things go south, denying truth is much easier than confronting it, and I have to assume that's where the "magic" part comes in.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:56 | 3547187 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Hey mick ~ How do you know they're not cock rings?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:32 | 3546639 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ fonz...  + 1

Hmm...  Could it be:

1)  Shameful nose-piercings you got when you were 16?

2)  Battery acid will dissolve rubber or plastic.

3)  Lighter fluid & a match will take care of the bag...



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:15 | 3546631 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ mick_r

Look in the background of the fifth photo, you can see "Together We Move the World".

At one of the bearing plants of our largest supplier in Korea (KBC):

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:22 | 3546775 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

What am I (Wooden Bender),  Chopped liver?   Artisans are not constrained by one particular medium, look at Leonardo DaVinci...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:45 | 3546694 Blano
Blano's picture

I hear ya DoChen, and always enjoy reading what you have to say.  Still, FOFOA could cut those treatises in half and they would still be plenty long enough.  He loses me, and I read way more than most.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:07 | 3546869 akak
akak's picture

The essential problem with the writings of FOFOA, I have come to conclude, lies in the fact that he does not, as most good writers do, lay out his thesis and then back it up with argument and logic.  No, he repeatedly if not invariably instead skips directly to the (woefully long-winded, verbose, and painfully convoluted) (attempted) explanation of what he is trying to propose, without ever having made the synopsis of that proposition in the first place.  Moreover, I find that his attempted explanations do not explain and clarify his theories so much as they merely tie one giant semantical and logical Gordian knot after another, through which I, being no Alexander, cannot cut.

If a theory, ANY theory, cannot be summarized in one or two reasonable paragraphs, or one page of normal text at the extreme most, then there is either something wrong with the theory, or else the reader is being bamboozled with bullshit.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:32 | 3547139 fourchan
fourchan's picture

sounds bearish for gold

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:22 | 3546353 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The thing to remember is that all the truly connected have physical too.  It's not like they're so stupid they can't see that the jig will eventually be up at some point.  Gaming the system just ensures that they always have a winning hand.  We can't time things like they can since they control the timing to a large degree - but with some common sense and a steady hand, we peon PM holders may do just fine.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:37 | 3546404 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The idiots who are long GLD/SLV are just as much to blame as the moronic shorts.  If not for their bid, the price of gold and silver goes to $0 and this whole thing blows up all the sooner (yeah, that means you finally see profits).

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:40 | 3546413 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

The truly connected might have some physical (or they might not), but even if they did it would be a small % of their total value. The vast majority would be in paper assets, but I think that's why you've seen a rush to real assets and farmland (for instance) and why Buffett bought a railroad (hard assets in disguise). 

There's a limit to how much one can have in physical, especially if it's not in some JPM vault somewhere. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:47 | 3546437 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

In a global hyper-inflationary scenario - they better have physical or they will be fucked (reletively speaking).  Hard assets will always be more valuable than paper IOUs - but localization is going to screw anybody who relies on efficient global networks and supply chains to maintain their positions of power.

While there's a limit to how much physical one can round-up when everybody wants it, I don't think there's a limit to physical's value in terms of fiat.  There may be a time, I predict, when only a very few ounces could buy one a home/farm.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:57 | 3546471 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The money supply has already been hyper-inflated (even before contingent demands on money i.e. derivatives) well beyond the available supply of hard assets, much less the tiny supply of physical precious metals.  There simply isn't enough to go around. 

And it's probably better that institutions don't change their opinion on that, since shit rolls downhill.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:44 | 3546565 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I have to disagree with what you wrote:

"There simply isn't enough to go around." 

There is enough to go around.  At the right price.

The people who will get screwed are those owning paper-gold thinking that they own real gold.  Big difference...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:08 | 3546612 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Human life also has a price.  If the price of gold rises too high (ex. hyperinflation), then the motivation to trade life for gold will increase, which places the individual at a distinct disadvantage.  

At USD$100,000 per ounce (benny bucks - 2012 purchasing power) WE'RE ALL DEAD

At USD$1,000,000,000 per ounce (gideon gonno bucks - any vintage) WE'RE NO RICHER OR POORER THAN WE ARE TODAY

It doesn't even require the DHS shipping people off to camp FEMA.  What happens when you and your gold fillings check into a hospital that can turn an appealing black market profit harvesting both your organs and your dental work, in the ever more likely event you have an accident at the hospital?

(Long) paper gold holders will get screwed regardless, but they're only losing paper money. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:29 | 3546654 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Certainly the risks of holding gold do go up when it is worth $100,000 / oz.

But, how many people died in the below hyperinflations?

-- Weimar Germany

-- recent Zimbabwe

-- 1990s Peru

Not a whole lot died (to my knowledge) during those hyperinflations.  Was there lots of suffering?  Of course.

One of FOFOA's points is that gold will do lots better than the rate of future inflation.  This will mean good things to anyone who has 1% of their wealth in gold, that would then rise to 30% or 40% (his estimates).


DHS and FEMA Camps are a whole 'nother story.  That may be one reason why approx. 80% of gold owners are gun owners as well.  And there are more of us than there are of them.  

"Ahh, Mr. DHS Man, yeah well, some of my neighbors know where your kids go to school."

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:45 | 3546695 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture




"Certainly the risks of holding gold do go up when it is worth $100,000 / oz."

Certainly at that point, the value of one hundred thousand US dollars become meaningless.

At some event horizon point in time, quoting ANY commodity (barrels of oil, bushels of wheat, ounces of silver)

becomes totally meaningless. You could quote ounces of gold as ANY Order of Magnitude per unit, and it would

be an utterly useless quote.

No one in their right minds would exchange 100 Quardronillionen pieces of paper for a single ounce of gold.

Therefore . . .

"Certainly the risks of holding gold do go up when it is worth $100,000 / oz."

Clarifies Nothing.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:07 | 3546737 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

FOFOA's actual words re $55,000 were "$55,000 in non-hyperinflated 2009 dollars".  My wife is calling me for dinner now, I will see if I can post a link after...

Main point being that gold will go up faster than hyperinflation...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:17 | 3546763 Clever Name
Clever Name's picture

Whats for dinner?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:33 | 3546808 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Dognuts, because they have a hole in the middle of them too...

Dognuts, tm SuddenDebt...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:46 | 3547012 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Salmon, mixed vegetables, couscous and tomato slices.

Finished!  Now let me go look for that link...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:15 | 3546750 Maos Dog
Maos Dog's picture

This is not altogether true:

No one in their right minds would exchange 100 Quardronillionen pieces of paper for a single ounce of gold.

Remember, unless Legal Tender laws are repealed, you are in fact, during a hyperinflation, going to need to come up with insane amounts of cash to pay taxes, mortgages, bills, and other dollar-denomated debt, until the system collapses or there is a re-valuation or issuing of new currency.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:58 | 3546862 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Which makes long-term fixed interest rate loans at these ridiculous rates very appealing...

I am usually not one for accumulating debt but the allure of paying it off in 5 years with a 1/10 oz Eagle has my attention at the moment...  If only there were a secured loan with underlying assets worth owning... Real estate?  No.  Boat?  No.  Car? No.  

Perhaps a baseball team?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:56 | 3547039 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture




Promise made, promise kept.  The link shows you FOFOA's Gold Price Probability Distribution Curve, from 2009.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:11 | 3547093 ironsky
ironsky's picture

Wonder how many FEMA camps are reachable from Burlington Northern lines. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:22 | 3546776 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

I don't think you know what that word, "hyperinflation" means. It doesn't mean there's too much money around. It means that there's far too LITTLE money in the economy and the central bank/treasury is trying to make up for it with paper.

In a monetary inflation, gold doesn't simply increase in price by the multiple of money supply. Because it is both money AND currency (they are not the same) gold commands a big premium when the currency loses acceptance. Holding gold means that, when there's a sack of rice left in the store and the proprietor is offered One Hundred Bazillion Benny Bux by one man and a small piece of gold by another man, the guy with the gold gets the rice.

If you've studied the history of the Weimar collapse, you know that many ordinary people survived because they hoarded small silver coins before the presses went wild.  A 3-mark silver coin would buy more than a wheelbarrow of paper Reichsmarks.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 06:51 | 3547544 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I think I know exactly what the various definitions of hyperinflation are or I wouldn't have included one example for each of two primary definitions, the implications of your use of the word "money" are more unclear.  Perhaps it was use of "ex." and an ambiguity as to whether I was referring to hyperinflation being an example or an example ex hyperinflation.

A fractional silver coin and a one gold coin are in no way comparable in terms of the risk that they impart to the bearer.  

When you look at economic collapses there is more to a proper analysis than price histories for exchange of goods and services - crime statistics(which are systemically under-reported during such events) are a good place to start.  Even when times are good, only a fool would blindly walk from neighborhood to the next in Rio de Janeiro wearing a load of bling.  When times are mediocre (such as now for the sake of simplicity) look at the loathing of the 1% even here on ZH, if you own gold you are part of the 1% even if some here use more precise definitions for the targets of their rage. And then when times are bad... there's a reason the fortalezas aren't torn down and rebuilt into more ostentatious displays in the good years, and it's ironic that when the term is translated into American English - that it acquires connotations of poor white trash and Prepper Maddness.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 08:19 | 3547705 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

I'll make it very simple: Currency facilitates a transaction, whereas Money extinguishes a debt. Currency is a substitute for money, and has its origins in the paper warehouse receipts that substituted for real gold in Ye Olden Times.

Multiplying words does not substitute for either understanding or effective argument. Case in point: "if you own gold, you are part of the 1%".

Everything about that sentence fragment is based on erroneous concepts; It's not 1% that constitute the elites; 1% of 314 million Americans implies that we're ruled over by 3.14 million super rich people, which is grotesquely out of scale. Also, I own a gold wedding band. It does not make me even "comfortably well off", let alone a member of the ruling class. "If you own a bit of gold" is light-years from "If you're hoarding London Good Delivery Bars in your basement".

It's also an error to conflate economic collapse with currency collapse. You can have the former without the latter, but not vice versa.  I still think you don't quite grasp what happens in a hyperinflation. It is a collapse in money supply. The relative risk of silver coins and gold bars is a different debate.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 08:32 | 3547762 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Going back to what I orignally posted - There simply isn't enough to go around. 

Substituting your language - There simply isn't enough [money] relative to the [currency and/or debt supplies].

And citing your definition - [Hyperinflation] means that there's far too LITTLE money in the economy and the central bank/treasury is trying to make up for it with paper.

What exactly is your argument?

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 08:40 | 3547789 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

This is getting boring, but I'll give it one last shot. I'm quibbling with this:

At USD$1,000,000,000 per ounce (gideon gonno bucks - any vintage) WE'RE NO RICHER OR POORER THAN WE ARE TODAY

I don't think so. If the USD falls to that level relative to gold, then the dude with gold gets to buy, and the guy with paper does not. That means the guy with purchasing power is A LOT RICHER than the other.  And that's what matters, if survival matters at all to you.

The implication is that there's no advantage to holding precious metals, since you assume they will only revalue according to the money multiplier. A pretty obvious non sequitur.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 10:51 | 3548251 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I wasn't implying that that there's no advantage to holding precious metals, or that physical precious metals don't protect purchasing power over time.  However, during the event of currency collapse the practical opportunities for swapping out of physical gold holdings and into other assets (regardless of whether they are physical or paper assets) is severely restricted, so until some sense of stability and rule of law which respects private property returns, which would involve some degree of normalization of the gold price-- the gold owner's puchasing power is basically neutered, leaving him in the same boat as everyone else (richer or poorer was sloppy POOR word choice, but he's not any richer during the event, unless he's a crony of Mugabe who can capitalize on the chaos with impunity).  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:24 | 3546934 Room 101
Room 101's picture

@dochen  Exactly.  But here is the rub: the "right price" isn't all that different from what we're paying right now.  Much hay has been made of the historic premiums PM buyers are paying for gold.  And those are what, 4, 5, 6% over spot?  So fucking what!  That's chump change.  That's postage

Yeah, there are some fools who are willing to pay 20% over spot for ASEs.  There are also dummies who are willing to buy JPM stock.  So what?  If you're not a fool, you can pick up gold for 3-4% over spot and silver for 5-6%.  All you can afford, all day long.  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:15 | 3546752 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

There will NEVER be a time when a few ounces can buy a productive farm. That's a fantasy that someday you might become a king.

Gold has a place. But it does not replace the value of productive assets. A well-producing farm can simply price its products in gold, since nothing is more valuable than food.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still sad about that boating accident. But productive assets and productive skills can earn gold. I'll take either over a stagnant shiny metal. Better yet, I'll take all three.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:21 | 3546924 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Depends on your definition of "a few", I'd say.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:56 | 3546721 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Not all the truly connected have physical. I'm guessing the Fed has NONE, or it wouldn't be giving Germany such a preposterous responses. America has nothing but debt and all its assets have liens.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:18 | 3546915 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



The FED is an asset in the hands of those who create liens and you're right about the US's assets.


All Liened.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:09 | 3547080 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture



That is a bad link you are using here for FOFOA, Sir DCRB.

PS. I think I have a hall pass to go to Peru. Be well...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:18 | 3547115 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

A hall pass to go to Peru, lucky dog!  You are in for a treat.  gmail me at my moniker if you are thinking of going in July.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 19:02 | 3546596 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

A real good scare tactic they'll employ is the gold plated tungsten bars.   There will be a big scare of phoney gold to try and keep people out of gold/drive down demand.   The flooding of the market of gold plated tungsten bars will also introduce big "supply" to tamp down prices.


There will be tons of new "reported" massive gold finds too.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:39 | 3546815 beaker
beaker's picture

I get the point of this article. But you cannot think of this in a vacuum.  What will TPTB do when in a corner? How about introducing legislation for a 50% tax on gold sales.  Just the talk of this would crater the price.

Counterpoint: gold is a global price outside the US.  True, but all the central banks are in collusion with each other so several nations could announce this in a coordinated fashion. These fuckers are ruthless.

I don't have a snappy answer except to buy quality farmland.  They won't fuck around with the food supply.

Just sayin...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:48 | 3546840 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

" How about introducing legislation for a 50% tax on gold sales. Just the talk of this would crater the price."


The talk of this would quadruple the price.  The implementation of this would drive all sales underground.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:25 | 3546943 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Who they?

The food supply may very be the end game freeing the world of useless eaters.


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:59 | 3547055 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

They already are fucking around with the food supply.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:39 | 3546215 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I do not believe for a second that the price smash was an event that back-fired on the banksters.

Simply put, if I knew that this would be the outcome, then so did they.

These pages have been filled with the idea that physical and paper prices would one day diverge, with physical demanding ever increasing premiums before disappearing from the market altogether.

It is also obvious, that when the paper market breaks, they'll merely declare force majure. So, the lower they drive the paper price BEFORE that day, the less they have to pay in fed notes to settle the tab.

In the meantime, the Celentes and Paulsons of the world, end up losing big for their ability to correctly forecast the market.

This is nothing but a win-win-win for them, as there is simply no consequence concerning physical.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:45 | 3546227 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I don't know N/A

This seems like a worldwide thing happening. I have no doubt they can conceal things and bang everyone around for a while. Once it get's sorted out who is in the club and who is not, someone is going to throw a hissy fit. What the reprecussions of that are, I have no clue.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:06 | 3546292 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'd say the obvious reprecussion that I didn't notice being addressed in the article (I started skimming after I hit the "backfire" comment, is the resultant END of the physical market.

All without having to outlaw anything. Once you've murdered the last avenue of price discovery, nobody will offer gold for sale at any price (at least not measured in fiat).

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:16 | 3546330 1000 splendid suns
1000 splendid suns's picture

Don't forget to throw in the minig situation; the landslide at Kennecott, mining companies losing money at these low paper prices and closing shop, etc. It all means reduced supply coming onto the physical market.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:05 | 3546555 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

1000!  I am not sure that losing Kennecott's relatively small production means anything at all for gold.  

World annual production of gold is very small compared to gold in above-ground stock.  This means that small changes in world mining output of gold have little influence on the price.

There is a notion around that there is "not enough" gold around (and I am not saying you wrote or implied this...).  Nonsense!  There is plenty of gold..., at a price.

2011 world production: 2,700 tonnes

2011 world gold stock: 170,000 tonnes

More basic gold info at:

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:19 | 3546769 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Gold equals treasure in every language on Earth except Keynesian where it means barberous relic.  Keynesians have been leaving human nature out of their equations since day one as they think they are bigger than god/nature and know better (do-gooder mentality).  True economics are based on human nature and thats why Keynesians are dead wrong and have been from day one.  I think in their over-riding arrogance, they are completely surprized and fucked by the response that the world is giving them in regards to the barberous relic.

I for one wish to give them a "big fuck you" as I buy more treasure.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:43 | 3546228 W T F II
W T F II's picture

Completely agree. This was no "accident"...ESPECIALLY, the aftermath 'bounce'...!! "The Collaborators" have a 'plan'....

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:50 | 3546248 american eyedol
american eyedol's picture

i just broke down and turned cnbc off for good, i know alot of you have already but today was simply unbearable, i will watch judge judy and highlights of last years nfl if anyone else knows of anything i can watch weekdays while i work let me know

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:03 | 3546284 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

So I'm guessing you don't work at the SEC then.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:11 | 3546310 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The SEC watches porn

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:37 | 3546402 Pooper Popper
Pooper Popper's picture


Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:19 | 3546335 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Listen to music during the day. Everyone needs a break from the idiot box.

If you still want to watch TV, ditch the cable and use the library for DVDs (and books, duh). I can't believe I ever paid for cable. Most libraries do requests now, which makes them not much different from Netflix. And not the shitty, limited choice, streaming Netflix — the Netflix with anything you'd ever want to watch and still no commercials. Plus we're already paying for libraries with tax dollars. Might as well use them.

Most people just watch whatever crap is on TV simply because it's there. That's the only explanation I have for my parents watching the fucking Hallmark channel. If you're forced to actually hunt down your entertainment, you'll be more discerning and sift out the garbage.

Freddie probably hates this post because I didn't advocate shooting your TV.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:19 | 3546343 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

LOL but he can tell you what Lindsay Lohan had for breakfast somehow.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:24 | 3546357 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Crack on a bagel, freshly squeezed heroin, her dealer's wang...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:26 | 3546368 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

She grew up 5 mins from where I live. So i got that going for me. Which is nice.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:35 | 3546397 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Maybe you should consider a defensive driving course; or one of those surplus DHS tanks.  You know, just to be on the safe side.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:03 | 3546484 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

I just wanted to get in on this comment sub-thread.  Because it's awesome.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:06 | 3547077 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Best posts, every day. 

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 03:23 | 3547417 Hapa
Hapa's picture

Adding one more...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:21 | 3546773 Clever Name
Clever Name's picture

I found that interesting also, talking about some such celebrity and their marraiges? Odd, to say the least.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:42 | 3546417 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

Firefox + Adblock +

Any movie, any show, any time!



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:16 | 3546909 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I sometimes forget I have Adblock and Flashblock...  There's no going back, no way.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:02 | 3546730 noless
noless's picture

Sorry to soullessly promote something that i enjoy, but firefly is pretty cool, like a western in space, with a rebel spirit and zombies.. just saying is all.

Agree on all points however, music is a great way to parse the moments of your life through repetitive abstractions.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:33 | 3546806 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture (The Oasis in the City!)

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 00:30 | 3547255 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Coming back to this thread late, but I'm really glad to hear someone else out there likes Firefly (and Serenity, the movie that followed the series). I'll be damned if that show wasn't the single most libertarian thing that's ever been on television. Highly recommended to fellow ZHers.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:25 | 3546361 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Here's an idea. Why don't you work when you work.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:08 | 3546494 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Just sayin', university studies prove that you can't bang out code if you're not listening to Metal.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:31 | 3546546 MetalFillBoy
MetalFillBoy's picture

See what kind of code you bang out while listening to Rush!!



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:45 | 3546569 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I be slappin' da bass when I listen to Rush.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:17 | 3546762 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

+1 I love Rush.  Fucking geniuses.  Thanks.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:40 | 3546819 MetalFillBoy
MetalFillBoy's picture

Yes, many of us engi-nerds LOVE Rush!!  I saw them last Friday here in Raleigh.  What an incrediable show!!!!



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:35 | 3546976 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Tai Shan still gives me goosebumps. Every time I listen to it.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:13 | 3546625 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

There is always the .357 option for the telly. Works wonders and you don't have to worry about the MSM ever again.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:51 | 3546710 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture




Congrats! That is REALLY old school caliber.


Kinda like .38 special


Sigh . . . A little bit lost in this world of constant blather about .223, and 9mm.


Makes you long for the old school 1911 .45

But that's almost long gone anyway.



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:37 | 3546814 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

1911 in 45 ACP long gone? Nah, just out of stock. does have a Remington for you:

I personally like the Taurus .38 SP the best. It fits my hand nicely, feels very natural and stays unobtrusive under a vest or light jacket. When I travel in my truck, I sleep in the back with my hand on it, under a pillow.  Only five shots, though. The S&W 9mm is a little more forgiving at 16+1. Bersa .380 is a little jewel, high capacity and small size. I call it the Fernando Special.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:31 | 3546799 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I watch CNBS once in a great while -- it's like only I've read the entire script and the actors on TV have zero cluez on what's coming down the pike...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:57 | 3546267 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

@NotApplicable...............this comment you made in the John Kerry post was awesome...........''its all pipes''

''Your masters thank you for your support, as without people like you, they could never pull of their desire to divide and conquer.

The sooner you realize that we are all slaves, the sooner this whole mess makes perfect sense.

Here's a clue: WWIII is being engineered before our eyes. By the time it blows up, everyone will believe it was unavoidable. The outcome will leave no nation state in a position of strength. Then the globalizers emerge with their grand plan.

Bretton Woods 2.0''

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:42 | 3546424 alchemisteve
alchemisteve's picture

If Professor Antal Fekete is correct and they put gold into permanent backwardation, then they will set in motion a process that will lead to the inevitable destruction of the current system.  Can they really want this?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:36 | 3546681 thelibcentury
thelibcentury's picture

The destruction of the currency system is inevitable anyways, no?
So perhaps not a matter of "want" but rather one of "control"

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:56 | 3546722 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture



Sorry, no obfuscation intended, But . . .


Professor Antal Fekete, along with FOFOA, are really good on the intellectual/ideological side of things,

and while they can be interesting to read for awhile,

Neither of them are getting the essense of their ideas across to the masses.

There's just not enough Meat in their Message to captivate the large audience that needs to hear the

basis of their story.

Can't we find SOMEONE who has intellectual clarity and can also speak to the masses????



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:40 | 3546822 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Dr. Fekete is plain spoken and easy to understand. But you have to want to understand. Most people don't care; they just want someone to tell them it's all under control and everything will be all right eventually. Eventually it will be just fine. Everything nice and quiet, like Flanders Fields.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:58 | 3546864 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

while I appreciate the tone of your plea, realising that "the masses" are pre-occupied is ultimately less stressful to your psyche.

this is not to belittle any one, but is just the reality we live in.

people cannot go from dis-connected to informed in one go, and the amount of time necessary to bring most up to speed is dwindling, daily.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:41 | 3546997 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



They'll get a crash course then.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 23:11 | 3547092 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Yes, a major dose of high impact education.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 21:28 | 3546792 Clever Name
Clever Name's picture

Too many possibilities to comtemplate, but you are correct that they had to know this would happen. The fm youre referring to could come in many guises.

Smack down the price, buy up all the paper that actually represents gold (registered, eligible, I'm still a little confused but it wont matter to them) and say "Sorry, its all ours, and you get nothing. Read the fine print. Bitchez"

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:29 | 3546951 Room 101
Room 101's picture

I also don't get this "price smash that backfired on the banksters."  Please correct me, but since the Ides of April, has the price returned to what it was on April 11th? 

No.  It hasn't.  It's not even close.  So could someone explain how the price smash was unsuccessful for the banksters?  Or better, how the next price smash will be any LESS successful than this one has been?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 22:53 | 3547033 Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ Not Applicable:

The gold market commentators keep saying the same thing: "The Banksters really screwed up this time"......NO, they didn't.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

Every price knockdown allows them to buy cheaper physical metal, and/or get out from under some of their shorts.

They just caused an acceleration in the rate at which physical metal disappears from the market. Like shifting from 4th to 5th gear.

They want physical metal to disappear from the market. The $xxxxxx/oz. question is, WHY?

"I'm doing God's Work".

"He who has the Gold, makes the Rules".

“Night's darkness is the bag that bursts with the gold of the dawn.”



Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:29 | 3546175 Devotional
Devotional's picture

and I second that ... GOLD, Biiiiatcheeeez!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:30 | 3546178 Precious
Precious's picture

This might be one of those events we were waiting for, like Lehman, where the elites start cutting each others throats.  Now the action can really get started.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:40 | 3546220 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

For non-club members like Celente and Paulson, perhaps. If you think they're truly turning on each other, well, I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:07 | 3546259 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

As far as the big picture of a true default occuring? You are right. I don't know what that entails and the ramifications (if any) in the markets.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:34 | 3546391 max2205
max2205's picture

The congress has the tbtf banksters backs. Don't get too excited

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:27 | 3546369 Devotional
Devotional's picture

If you have front row tickets let me know please. Deal? Deal.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:32 | 3546189 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Freegold, bitches!

Even Jim Sinclair is now calling it by name and openly discussing it.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:41 | 3546224 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Does he do so with or without the silliness of including the Euro?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:57 | 3546265 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

The "silliness of the Euro" is simply that the Euro marks its gold to market each quarter as opposed to the US which still carries its gold on the books at $42.22/oz..  The Euro zone has problems, agreed, but it's creating a space that will be strong in gold in comparison to the USD.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:43 | 3546425 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Plus the Euro CB is inheritantly more stable. Witness the take-down of un-insured depositors in Cypress, this is EXACTLY how a bank failure is supposed to happen. No more bailouts.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:30 | 3546383 Stuart
Stuart's picture

it's time for the miners to break free and stockpile their gold rather than deliver to exchanges at these prices.   Squeeze the shorts.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:45 | 3546433 donsluck
donsluck's picture

You're being silly. You cannot simultaneously operate a mine and hoard it's product. They tried that in the futures market and got slammed in the early 2000s.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:23 | 3546528 Burt Gummer
Burt Gummer's picture

Just got back from my LCS, they are completely out of Gold and had about 500 ounces of some generic silver rounds and bars.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:41 | 3546559 UH-60 Driver
UH-60 Driver's picture

First post nailed it.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:28 | 3546172 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

...and the stupid sheep will continue to buy paper gold and think they own the real thing.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:30 | 3546179 blindman
blindman's picture

i'm done with it.
" they can continue on,
I hope they do for
the late to the party.
my eyes have seen the end
and I am not concerned
with that.
the whip will fall on air,
the people will rejoice."

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:31 | 3546182 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

The demise of paper gold will mark the start of price normalization for gold. Paper gold artificially inflated supply, and now the market grows wise to the ruse. Game over soon. Buy physical, and enjoy the price adjustment to the upside as the market adjusts to the correct supply numbers. IMHO - YMMV.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:31 | 3546183 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

This is gonna end like Mussolini inspecting his air force.


(the same planes were flown to multiple locations)

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:51 | 3546452 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

It will end like Mussolini alright, but it will be more about piano wire than airplanes.

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