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New York Fed Sees Five More Years Of Stock Increases

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Normally the New York Fed would not have to bother itself with such Series 7, 63-registration requiring, "financial advisor"-type things as predicting where the stock market will go, especially when it is its own trading desk that provides the impetus for more than 100% of the current equity rally. However, these are not normal times - they are New Normal. And as a result, Fed economists Fernando Duarte and Carlo Rosa have penned a "research" paper titled "Are Stocks Cheap?" in which they view the same reflexive "evidence" that Ben Bernanke himself used to answer a question during a recent press conference if he would still be buying stocks at record levels, namely the risk premium. This is what the NYFed's economists say on the matter: "We surveyed banks, we combed the academic literature, we asked economists at central banks. It turns out that most of their models predict that we will enjoy historically high excess returns for the S&P 500 for the next five years."

They find, not surprisingly, that based on various economist models, the risk premium has never been higher.

As a reminder, the equity risk premium is "expected future return of stocks minus the risk-free rate over some investment horizon." It is this record high risk premium that leads the two to agree with Wall Street and to forecast that stocks have nothing but upside for half a decade more. Of course, what they try to not highlight is that the previous near all time high equity risk premium was seen in the days just before the Lehman collapse, when the same poll and the same models, would have predicted smooth sailing for a long, long time, instead of the 60% modest correction that transpired in the coming months, and which would have led to the end of the Western financial model as we know it if not for the same NY Fed injecting a little over $10 trillion into risk on short notice. But don't worry, there is an economist "explanation" for this particular fly in the ointment: "It is difficult to argue that we’re living in rosy times, but we are surely in better shape now than then."

Surely.

So assuming one buys into the explanation that this time it's different and "we are in better shape now than then" (even if said shape is purely due to the trillions in excess liquidity injected by the world's central banks over the past five years, something which is completely ignored by the very same Fed's economists), here is how an economists goes about justifying an equity valuation:

Why is the equity premium so high right now? And why is it high at all horizons? There are two possible reasons: low discount rates (that is, low Treasury yields) and/or high current or future expected dividends. We can figure out which factor is more important by comparing the twenty-nine models with one another. This strategy works because some models emphasize changes in dividends, while others emphasize changes in risk-free rates. We find that the equity risk premium is high mainly due to exceptionally low Treasury yields at all foreseeable horizons. In contrast, the current level of dividends is roughly at its historical average and future dividends are expected to grow only modestly above average in the coming years.

 

In the next chart we show, in an admittedly crude way, the impact that low Treasury yields have on the equity risk premium. The blue and black lines reproduce the lines from the previous chart: the blue is today’s equity risk premium at different horizons and the black is the average over the last fifty years. The new purple line is a counterfactual: it shows what the equity premium would be today if nominal Treasury yields were at their average historical levels instead of their current low levels. The figure makes clear that exceptionally low yields are more than enough to justify a risk premium that is highly elevated by historical standards.

 

Keep the above bolded, underlined sentence in mind for a second.

So let's fast forward to the authors' summary:

At face value, this result means that the models are actually helpful in forecasting returns. However, we should keep in mind some of the limitations of our analysis. First, we have not shown confidence intervals or error bars. In practice, those are quite large, so even if we could have earned extra returns by using the models, it may have been solely due to luck. Second, we have selected models that have performed well in the past, so there is some selection bias. And of course, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Actually, at "face value" the models have been horribly wrong at forecasting returns especially in situations in which confidence in the entire system collapses, and as a result five years later, the Fed, and all its central bank peers, are forced to inject more and more liquidity to keep the house of cards: both the market and the economy from imploding.

Which actually is also the biggest failing of the paper.

Let's go back to the bolded sentence above:

"The new purple line is a counterfactual: it shows what the equity premium would be today if nominal Treasury yields were at their average historical levels instead of their current low levels."

Looking at the chart shows that the Risk Premium would be negative in a "normal" environment - or one where bonds were back at their historical averages, where even the Fed, not to mention Congress and the President, see them reverting to one day when the Fed supposedly exits the market.  And what is most stunning about this entire paper authored by Fed economists, is that the authors completely ignore that the only reason the Treasury yields are low is because of the Fed's distortions of the bond market itself. In other words, nobody at the Fed has even the faintest understanding of recursive, circular logic, or what Soros famously pegged as reflexivity.

Which in turn means that the longer one chases stocks relative to a baseline "normal" risk free rate, the more negative the premium would be, and the greater the stock market fall, once things are allowed to normalize (if ever).

Perhaps, instead of coming up with this sad attempt at pitching stocks, the NY Fed were to come up with something relevant like where the 10 Year bond would be not only if the Fed was out of the market, but if it had never entered, the general public would have a sense of just how massively overvalued stocks truly are when factoring out the biggest artificial component to the "rally", and also why, intuitively, virtually everyone hates what has become a daily no volume levitation on nothing but the expectation that i) the Fed will continue the liquidity tsunami indefinitely and ii) the Fed will not lose control of the market and the economy, as it did in 2008.

Is it any wonder why the occupation "economist" (not really a job, more of a clerical position) and especially one with a political bent, sent here from above to justify an ever-encroaching government, and a ruinous central planning regime that only serves to perpetuate capital misallocation and wealth transfer from the middle to the upper class, has become the most pejorative "four letter" word in existence?

 


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Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:43 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

Hyperinflation raises all boats. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

...and starves the majority.  Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. If all ya'll don't mind I am going to go over to the other side of the boat now.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:53 | Link to Comment Jekyll_n_Hyde_Island
Jekyll_n_Hyde_Island's picture

There's salt water and snow everywhere -- the muppets and sheeple have been gulping it down from the sides of their life rafts for 45 days, err 6 years, err forget it.

  http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/what-if/what-if-you-dri...

  http://en.allexperts.com/q/Hiking-Backpacking-Camping-331/t-drink-snow.htm

 

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market_crash

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

If only the global snowpack/ice sheets were increasing.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment JethroBodien
JethroBodien's picture

Nothing to see here move along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4VGoXV5vYg

Just a minute someone is at the door...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:09 | Link to Comment Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

What does "pejorative" mean?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

That the word 'bank' qualifies as a four letter word in more ways than one.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment nobodyimportant
nobodyimportant's picture

They are increasing.  See iceagenow.info

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

That is patent nonsense.  Glaciers and icecaps are melting and retreating worldwide, on every continent and in every region, and have been for over a century now.

 

EDIT:  I can only shake my head at the ideologically-drive no-nothings who downarrow me for pointing out an unassailable and undeniable scientific fact.  Your willful ignorance apparently knows no bounds.  Funny how all of the down-arrowers never actually respond to my statement of this fact, perhaps because they know that they cannot refute it.

And for the last fucking time, pointing out a scientific fact IN NO WAY implies that the person doing so is pushing a particular political agenda, or has any political agenda at all.

2nd Edit: Wow, 6 downarrows and counting!  And STILL no rebuttals, logical or otherwise!  The level of head-in-sand denial here is off the charts.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Are you kidding, a century? Really. How about more like several thousand years. My house sits in the Ohio valley that used to have mile thick glaciers. The cave man fucked up and started global warming with the flintmobil. 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I think you're forgetting about a number of intervening episodes such as the Little Ice Age, for example, during which Swiss alpine villages were overrun by advancing glaciers, and the Norse in Greenland were starved into extinction.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

LOL, holy crap.. really folks?  Talk about the cultural tryanny of political correctness - here it is in all its glory. 

 

Science 101:  The Earth is about 4.5 Billion years old.  Temperature and sea level fluctuations, glacial advancement/retreats, tidal patterns, weather patterns, tectonic plate movements - ALL have been occuring over for billions of years.  This planet is dynamic and ever changing.  Junkers: Get over it.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:30 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

TIME/SCALE: YOU'RE NOT GOOD AT IT.

For the last 24,000,000 years, CO2 levels have been under 500ppm (that includes a couple of ice ages for the record, and unless you're blind, you'll notice that stuff like mammoths are no longer around).

In 200 years, CO2 levels have increased the  by 100+ppm, and have just hit 400ppm in certain places (notably: the Arctic, you might note it had a lot of frozen water once) and it's still increasing, and there's ample proof that this is impacting regional climates (further hint: the last ice age took ~100,000 years to end, it takes a long TIME for masses of ice to melt on their own, but if you put a heater next to it, you can certainly speed the process up. Like a putting an ice cube onto a hot stove)

 

Now work out how much time was required for each species to fill its ecological niches (allowing for mutations leading to species becoming new ones and the whole beautiful dance), and how many species died out and so on, and so forth, and how fast current ecologies are changing.

You might want to look up how long mammoths were around, or perhaps even how long it took for homo sapiens to appear. Hint: longer than 200 years.

 

If you can't grasp TIME involved, I'll help you out. When humans deliberately breed a species to fulfill niches (i.e. domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, horses and so on) and provide them with the perfect environment (i.e. pamper the living crap out of them, and remove all predators, parasites and so on) and actively select against any random mutations (i.e. cull the ones not fitting the model you're aiming for, and only breed from those, which certainly doesn't happen in the wild), it takes decades to centuries to achieve the goals, depending on the species and what you're aiming for.

When Rome fell, it took centuries for the breeding programs to regain a footing and produce a decent warhorse [wiki]. Now, tell me how a wild species will adapt to ecologies changing as rapidly as they are? Hint: you can't, because they cannot.

The planet is going through the 6th great extinction of species in the Earth's history, and your response is "SCIENCE 101".

 

 

Sorry, but you're an idiot. (And this post won't change your beliefs, because they're not scientific, just beliefs, but it might inform others). The ignorance of basic evolution and ecology is stunning in 'MURICA.

 

"Faith-based community" = "Nihilistic death cult" at this point, just for the record. What amazes me is the belief that God likes you trashing the Universe. Unless you worship Cthulhu, and even that one would prefer if there was something left to terrify.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

LOL, and your unreferenced load of coprolite is 'scientific'?  Say, how many peer-reviewed journals articles have you published?  As many as I have, I wonder?  You are a narcissistic dolt, be gone.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 10:17 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

...in what field? Please drop a link to a sample, I'd be interested, and I'll be highly amused if it's geology and nothing to do with biology (I smell an engineer or "oil sciences" man from your tone). If you want to call me out for not sourcing, that's highly ironic given your initial claim.

Coprolite? So... animal breeding is "unscientific" now? And it's not a demonstration of genetic manipulation? And it doesn't take X number of years? And it's not got a huge source of data via bloodlines that can be checked? Tell me more about your world of magical pixies where twelve thousand years(+) of domestication aren't anything to do with science. Please do.

 

 

Oh, and so much for your disdain for junkers; narcissistic dolt indeed. Way to blow out a crappy response that tackles none of the points raised by the way: as I said, belief not science being challenged.

 

 

p.s. You'll be wanting to source how quite a lot of geology is actually biological in origin, and so the biology of the Earth is fundamental to understanding the mechanics of it. Hint: oil, limestone, stuff like that. Life is part of your "dynamic system", and is the engine of a large part of WHY it's dynamic. It's not as if you don't have two other models (Venus / Mars) to compare it to either.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 10:51 | Link to Comment Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Laconic, as usual..

 

Well, at first I thought you needed references for the fact (not theory) of a dynamic Earth.  But behold, you support this 'crazy' fact in your p.s. statement. 

Look, I'll take this one opportunity to cut through the bullshit and get to a root cause.  Humans overall are not the problem here, it is the insanity of an unsustainable growth mantra pushed by a very small percentage of humans at the top of the corporate food chain.  Your opposition (people like me) do not want that small percentage of humans who run everything to further consolidate power and financial wealth through fucking carbon taxation.  I'll assume here you are a progressive liberal... If your type and my conservative type actually joined - rather than gleefully partake in the great Divide - we could actually end the corporate takeover of this planet. 

I'm done, the next overly long post is yours...

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 19:25 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Well, of course: my position is about reality, nothing more. And fish. Very not pleased at the oceans dying out and the untold wealth of genetic data within complex ecosystems and solutions to niche issues being wiped out for plastic toys, it's insanity. Oh, and climate change really is here, the scientists aren't lying; the planning is already in for the worst case stuff. I'm more Deep Green than you could probably imagine.

I still want to see your papers. When I say I'm interested, I don't lie.

But, No, I'm not a progressive liberal, although I support some of their points. As do I support some of "your team's". This is the problem: you're assuming a dialectic dualism where I'm in your spectrum. This isn't the case. I am what I am. Traitor to some, failure to others, just because I won't pick sides (and those sides really aren't the sides you imagine).

 

Still working within the egg until hatch date. The problem is, I don't think I fit any of your paradigms. It'll probably crash and burn, but it's always worth a shot at something new. (And I get told off for posting here, woof woof).

 

 

p.s. Of course humans are part of the problem. They create the systems, then can't see wide enough to steer said systems, or see the probable results of said actions. I don't think weak AI is your answer, btw. There's a reason I mentioned domesticated species, you might want to think on it...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:46 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Try walking into the back yard of our hunting cabin in the Canadian rockies (there use to be a Glacier nearby (when I went there with my dad in the 70's, it's gone now) or try some peer-reviewed material.  Let me guess, you think Wikipedia is a reliable source.  Morons.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Jekyll_n_Hyde_Island
Jekyll_n_Hyde_Island's picture

Bloomberg's buzzword of the day: "trade-at-rule"

  "Dark Pools are driving up to 40% of activity on the market, and yield is drying up in the public arenas."

 

  A trade-at rule is an attempt to quantify the forces that exist without specific measuring tools.

 

  The search for dark matter continues.

 

  Good luck making money in the oligarchic shark tank, nope, matter and energy bending black hole our markets have become.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 19:42 | Link to Comment Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Go see Iceland's Glaciers. (Example) I was watching seals swim in the famous Bond set while people were photographing the blue icebergs recently, and two companions couldn't muster even the enthusiasm to leave the rental car for more than 15 minutes.

 

I could only remember when it wasn't a lake.

 

The warm period from 1920 to 1965 caused great changes in Breiðamerkurjökull glacier. It retreated very quickly, leaving a lagoon up to 190 m deep where the glacier snout had been, and several kilometres of glacial moraines were exposed on both sides of the lagoon. The lagoon grew from 8 km2 in 1975 to nearly 15 km2 in 1998. Large blocks of ice break off the edge of the glacier, which is about 30 m high, keeping the lagoon stocked with icebergs.[source]

 

Still, I'm sure you can make a profit from it, it has done wonders for Icelandic tourism.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Martial
Martial's picture

May 09, 2018

 

CNN: "DOW Soars Past 50,000 with Better-than-Expected Starvation Report of Only 25,000".

 

WASHINGTON,DC- The US continues to recover as the DOW soars past 50,000.  DHS released their weekly death totals, reporting a 6-month low of 25,000 deaths inside the 200 plus FEMA camps located throughout the country.  Fuhrer Obama has again stated he expects Martial Law to be lifited at the end of the month and the constitution to be reinstated shortly after.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Happy reading, everyone.
http://thirdparadigm.org/doc/45060880-When-Money-Dies.pdf
History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

....lifts all turds on tbe Ganges

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:26 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No possible way could I endure 5 more years of this insane bullshit.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:43 | Link to Comment Hopium Dealer
Hopium Dealer's picture

A gallon of gas in 5 years: 6-7 dollars.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

add a zero and you may be close

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment nobodyimportant
nobodyimportant's picture

 

The "price" of gas is not increasing -- the value of the dollar is decreasing.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:58 | Link to Comment nevadan
nevadan's picture

True story.  Melt value of a silver quarter is $4.32 today.  One gallon of gas aprox.  Same as it was when a silver quarter would buy a gallon of gas when I was a kid.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

It's already getting close to that now. How about double the current price if not more.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment venturen
venturen's picture

You are off in you estimate...you meant 5 months!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:51 | Link to Comment ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

I just set a personal record filling up my 1999 classic Expedition yesterday.  So it cost me more to fill my tank than ever before, and that is WITH record gas inventories across the nation.  If the supply/demand curve is not functioning properly(gas should be much lower) then the increase in price must be due to a weaker dollar and inflation.

The weak demand is masking the true amount of inflation already built into the price.

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:43 | Link to Comment camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

USA USA USA USA.

Bread will be $50 a loaf and the DOW at 50,000!

 

YAHOOOOOOOO

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

That was my sentiment on CNN money re: Obamacare. It wasn't received so well. Truly swimming up the falls on that one.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:46 | Link to Comment CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Bullish!!!  Buy Moar!!!!

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:47 | Link to Comment monopoly
monopoly's picture

Oh, just 5 more years. Well, I better get my short list ready. Did not realize it would be so soon.

We are so fucking doomed!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:10 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

I agree.  I didn't realize the tipping point was that close but...

When you think about it, stock market is being supported by Fed print and 401Ks and potentially a few remaining retail investors.

High income and middle income jobs are being replaced by low income jobs.  Low income jobs do not have 401k plans nor do they provide the worker with excess cash for retail investing so...

As boomers with high and middle income jobs retire, contributions to 401ks drop and...there is a need for the 401k plans to sell more than buy since the retirees are drawing out of the plans.

A look at the demographics probably does show that in 5 years, 401k plans will be selling more than buying, retail investors will have disappeared, and the Fed print machine may be able to print to infinity timewise but may not be able to print Infinite amounts of money for Infinity.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I think if a Fed guy is out there yelling about 5 more years of stock ramping it will probably last about another month at most.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

"Stock prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals."

"Stock markets are cooling a bit. Our expectation is that the decline in activity or the slowing in activity will be moderate, that stock prices will probably continue to rise."

"We’ve never had a sustained decline in stock prices on a nationwide basis. So, what I think what is more likely is that stck prices will slow, maybe stabilize, might slow consumption spending a bit. I don’t think it’s gonna drive the economy too far from its full employment path, though."

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:48 | Link to Comment venturen
venturen's picture

what are you smoking...the stock market is cooling? 10% in 4 months that is a 30% per year with almost zero increase in economic activity?  

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:09 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I was being sarcastic, of course, having substituted the word "stocks" into quotes by Bernanke on the housing market pre-2008.  Sorry if that was not obvious.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

What would that return be again since we crossed DOW 14,000 for the first time?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

How did the Ministry of Truth not catch that, and correct it?

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment spaceduck
spaceduck's picture

fuck you! 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

So says the King of the Deadbeat Depositors....

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

I'd trust a mafia hit-man before I'd trust the NY Fed.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 16:53 | Link to Comment ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

At least the Mafia has real targets that can be verified.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

New York Fed Sees Five More Years Of Stock Increases

 

and I see Zombie Bank People

 

Give us a break already. Just turn yourselves in.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Misean
Misean's picture

Wow, a great gawdam big sell signal!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

The new normal has been more QE, which gets used to buy equities, which leads to short covering, which results in much higher prices.

The Fed has been laughing at any shorts while they get slaughtered. 

This goes on until the US dollar crashes big.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

These idiots just write shit to write shit. They never examine their logic, and their only motive is to sell stawks. For cripes sakes do you guys ever stop to think that if stawks were to go down that you might actually sell more? It's called a sale. Value investors look for them. What a bunch of imbeciles.

 

 

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:53 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Just wait till rates go negative. It will be glorious. Immediately followed by breaking the buck on the money markets. Wait till that wall of water gets moving! Look how much higher we still have to go before they run out of juice. Stocks and bonds. The 10yr at 1% will be fantastic, especially if you own one at 1.5%!!!!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:52 | Link to Comment W T F II
W T F II's picture

I read this as ....crash sooner, crash deeper...!!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:52 | Link to Comment jubber
jubber's picture

DAX, FTSE,  and IBEX just hit new highs although closed over two hours ago!, fuck you Bernanke

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Moe Hamhead
Moe Hamhead's picture

By then Putney Swope will be out of the White House!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:22 | Link to Comment robochess
robochess's picture

Putney Swope........... gotta love it!!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment OpTwoMistic
OpTwoMistic's picture

Senile bastard.  Hope it does not effect the Republic of Texas.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:00 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the only thing the pigs at the fed care about is lloyd blankfuck's bonus

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment dolph9
dolph9's picture

They want all of your money.

Don't give the bastards a cent.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Vooter
Vooter's picture

I'm predicting that most alcoholics will still be alcoholics in five years....

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Permanently high plateau for the win!  Jolly good show.  Backpatting all around.  Now that all the leveraged capital has been deployed, all we have to do is sit back and let the returns come rolling in!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:24 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

"We may have broken the economic cycle and found permanent prosperity"- Alan Greenspud

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:04 | Link to Comment W T F II
W T F II's picture

hey,

we tried to warn them...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment W T F II
W T F II's picture

as a minor aside....how has EVERY one-sided trade in history ended...?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:11 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Told ya!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:11 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

The stock market will continue to rise in dollar terms.  But if the dollar is worthless, then what does that make the stocks?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:12 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

It goes on until the Fed panics when the US dollar crashes.

Will they try and save the currency when it crashes? Maybe they intend to drastically devalue the US dollar. Seems like they do.'

The Fed intends on forcing the loss of the reserve currency status?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

This is America! We will show Zimbabwe how things are done!!!

Dow 5 trillion..here we come!!! (unless there is a complete system failure and we skip right over hyperinflation into the era of the 'New Dollar')

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:15 | Link to Comment eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

FYI Tylers, this Fed article is written by an Argentinian, not an American.  Check out his CV

http://economics.mit.edu/grad/duarte

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

Sounds very much like "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." Irving Fisher stated 3 days before the great Crash!

And Bernanke with his 'sub prime is well contained.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

The irony here for me is immense.  I have been updating  stock ressearch based on the five year profit potential for many companies this am.  I've been doing this for over 23 years, and I have never seen such a limit on potential returns going forward based on potential earnings growth.

 

In the past that has always indicated to me a top.

 

But what the hell do I know?

 

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:18 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

If free markets no longer exist and the ruling class is telling you to buy stocks that they control then why not? They can make any mumbo jumbo they want as a reason. BTFR (the R is for ramp since dips are extinct.)

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Uncle Zuzu
Uncle Zuzu's picture

2013: "we will enjoy historically high excess returns for the S&P 500 for the next five years."

1929: "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau."

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:22 | Link to Comment pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

"we will enjoy historically high excess returns for the S&P 500 for the next five years"

... only if you buy low and sell high.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:22 | Link to Comment DavidC
DavidC's picture

The problem is, when it breaks, and it surely will (does anyone think that China, BRICS etc actually LIKE what the Fed is doing?), it will be quick and sharp.

I've said it before, Bernanke et al should hang their heads in shame.

DavidC

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:25 | Link to Comment khakuda
khakuda's picture

Someone of even average intelligence should be embarassed to put his/her name on this paper.  They could have saved time and tax payer dollars and just written, "If money is free, everything is cheap"    At some point it becomes clear that ZIRP and QE have broken the real economy.  As long as the asset inflation game goes on, no one cares.

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:26 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

More and more currency debasement until the Argentina/Zimbabwe final currency crash moment occurs.

Higher prices going forward with  gasoline,  food, taxes and the cost of living.

Food stamps just won't make it anymore at some point.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

God help us if the food stamps fail.

Millions of oxidizers who feel its their right to be fed.

 They have abdicated  control of their very existance to another.

The mind reels.

 

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:29 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

In other news, Air Force generals procliam their jets can just keep climbing thru the stratoshpere and head straight to Pluto, no problem!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:35 | Link to Comment VictoryOrDeath
VictoryOrDeath's picture

Gee what a brilliant extrapolation.  If I get out of a cold pool, and measure my balls over the next 5 minutes, I forecast that they should be as big as bowling balls by the end of the night!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

As an investor -- not as an economic ideolog -- this is exactly what I need to know:  How long till our "Golden years", my Precious?

Note to self:  a. Bull-market 2013-2017.  b. Be smart, Don't fight The Fed.

1. In spite of daily The End Is Near plackards on ZH and similar sites, assume that life and the world will go on next week, next month and next year;  

2. Buy more PM only on massive price dips; 

3. Invest in stocks etc, but allocate globally.

4. "People make money in Bull markets and Bear markets.  Pigs get slaughtered." - Gordon Gecko.  Ergo, don't be pig.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

You could be right. The fed and it's peers may keep merrily printing fiat for the next five years and the markets may go up, up, and away. However, if that is the case, we can expect Weimar like results, where in less than five years (I believe it was about 3 years actually), the price of a loaf of bread went from the modern equivalent of $1 to over $300,000. So, if you were to sell your entire portfolio at the end of that wild ride you could afford one trip to the grocery store if you are lucky. Ummmm...........Yippee?

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

2 Minutes to Midnight

And All is Well!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:42 | Link to Comment venturen
venturen's picture

Where the hell is my 1% rise in the stock market today? I want 1% a DAY!

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment beentheredonethat
beentheredonethat's picture

This is a really deep question, and the fed guys are certainly asking the right questions even if their answers are circular and dumb.

Going back to the capital asset pricing model we always used 5% risk free rate and a 2-3% risk premium for stocks if my memory serves.
That gives you the 7% stock returns at a beta of 1. It was the rule of thumb.
Now this equation is inverted. We have 6 % risk premiums and 1% risk free giving you the 7% stock returns in the market.
The implications of this inversion I have not yet thought through but I suspect it's deep. What does it say when the stocks return is 80% risk rather than 80% risk free in the return.. It says you might still be getting the same 7% but IT IS ALL RISK! Liable to be much larger swings about the risk free rate. What they are arguing i think is that your premium for holding stocks is so much larger now you simply have to own them (wish they had just come out and said that).
Need to thing more on this one, but great article

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:05 | Link to Comment XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

I am ready for a THIRD era of "excessive" returns since 1992! I want to get rich this time.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:53 | Link to Comment Jackagain
Jackagain's picture

You, starring Charlie Brown....Wall Street & the Fed as Lucy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlzVDDSfeeA

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:10 | Link to Comment Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

ZIRP for 5 more years then, eh.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 15:35 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

This is a signal that there are still sheep that have not come into the holding pens. In effect, they’re saying, hey you, the gate is still open.

It’s a trap - because there might be a couple of sheep that aren’t in the stock market yet. The Fed can no more see six months into the future than I can, let alone five years.

Beware the siren song of the Fed and its private owners - the international banking families.

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Jackagain
Jackagain's picture

Wow...they must really want that retail sucker money bad now...

Thu, 05/09/2013 - 18:59 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

"we will enjoy historically high excess returns for the S&P 500 for the next five years."

Sounds like guidance that would come out of Goldman Sachs, MEANING, thing are likely about to crumble.

Not long ago, Kyle Bass pointed out that the best performing stock market in 2012 was Zimbabwe, though most of the portfolios would not even purchase two eggs.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 06:36 | Link to Comment Smells_like_sALT
Smells_like_sALT's picture

They say with magicians, don't watch what they say, watch what they do.  Tyler notes what the Fed/Treasury (one and the same) is saying.  What they're doing Tyler also said in earlier notes: getting prepared to issue floaters. At least they've got Preps.

Sun, 05/12/2013 - 12:37 | Link to Comment cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

Does it matter?  

Sun, 05/12/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

Here is the issue, Money or more aptly Credit, has de-linked itself from productivity.  You have 9 Million on disability, X million on EI, another soon to be 100 million on welfare. Plus the banks / federal reserve issuing massive amounts of currency.. But who? is left in this country to create wealth?  The stock market goes up de-linked from increased sales, de-linked from a faltering economy.  The stock market is to Gold certificates, as people are to physical.  Eventually the stock market might as well not be reported on the news because none of the citizens will be able to interact in it anyways, and the central bank is propping it up for whose benefit?  The corporate elite and the Fed Reserve elite..  It's time for the people to disengage from it all and de-link their productivity and labor from the US dollar.  If someone could make a currency that is only linked to productivity, is untrackable, not speculative like BitCoin, it would destroy these ponzi schemes overnight 

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