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Ron Paul: What No One Wants to Hear About Benghazi

Tyler Durden's picture




 

From Ron Paul

What No One Wants to Hear About Benghazi

Congressional hearings, White House damage control, endless op-eds, accusations, and defensive denials. Controversy over the events in Benghazi last September took center stage in Washington and elsewhere last week. However, the whole discussion is again more of a sideshow. Each side seeks to score political points instead of asking the real questions about the attack on the US facility, which resulted in the death of US Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans.

Republicans smell a political opportunity over evidence that the Administration heavily edited initial intelligence community talking points about the attack to remove or soften anything that might reflect badly on the president or the State Department.

Are we are supposed to be shocked by such behavior? Are we supposed to forget that this kind of whitewashing of facts is standard operating procedure when it comes to the US government?

Democrats in Congress have offered the even less convincing explanation for Benghazi, that somehow the attack occurred due to Republican sponsored cuts in the security budget at facilities overseas. With a one trillion dollar military budget, it is hard to take this seriously.

It appears that the Administration scrubbed initial intelligence reports of references to extremist Islamist involvement in the attacks, preferring to craft a lie that the demonstrations were a spontaneous response to an anti-Islamic video that developed into a full-out attack on the US outpost.

Who can blame he administration for wanting to shift the focus? The Islamic radicals who attacked Benghazi were the same people let loose by the US-led attack on Libya. They were the rebels on whose behalf the US overthrew the Libyan government. Ambassador Stevens was slain by the same Islamic radicals he personally assisted just over one year earlier.

But the Republicans in Congress also want to shift the blame. They supported the Obama Administration’s policy of bombing Libya and overthrowing its government. They also repeated the same manufactured claims that Gaddafi was “killing his own people” and was about to commit mass genocide if he were not stopped. Republicans want to draw attention to the President’s editing talking points in hopes no one will notice that if the attack on Libya they supported had not taken place, Ambassador Stevens would be alive today.

Neither side wants to talk about the real lesson of Benghazi: interventionism always carries with it unintended consequences. The US attack on Libya led to the unleashing of Islamist radicals in Libya. These radicals have destroyed the country, murdered thousands, and killed the US ambassador. Some of these then turned their attention to Mali which required another intervention by the US and France.

Previously secure weapons in Libya flooded the region after the US attack, with many of them going to Islamist radicals who make up the majority of those fighting to overthrow the government in Syria. The US government has intervened in the Syrian conflict on behalf of the same rebels it assisted in the Libya conflict, likely helping with the weapons transfers. With word out that these rebels are mostly affiliated with al Qaeda, the US is now intervening to persuade some factions of the Syrian rebels to kill other factions before completing the task of ousting the Syrian government. It is the dizzying cycle of interventionism.

The real lesson of Benghazi will not be learned because neither Republicans nor Democrats want to hear it. But it is our interventionist foreign policy and its unintended consequences that have created these problems, including the attack and murder of Ambassador Stevens. The disputed talking points and White House whitewashing are just a sideshow.

 

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Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:45 | 3556069 kato
kato's picture

Intervention... True, Iraq was not worth one American life.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:50 | 3556101 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

Libya now has a BIS affiliated central bank and a fiat currency.  Mission accomplished.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:54 | 3556122 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Ron Paul Doesn't care.. Or he fears for his life.  Probably a lot of both.. 

 

Could have been a true Statesman and called Corzine and the Bernank before his committee..

 

But alas..  nothing..

 

fuck him.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:58 | 3556130 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

"Ambassador Stevens was slain by the same Islamic radicals he personally assisted just over one year earlier."

 

If any stupid fucking NSA, CIA, DICK or whatever reads this its about time you rethink why the fuck you're manipulating other countries.  The Blowback is 110% all your fault, turncoat fuckers.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:59 | 3556141 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I'm not an expert on all this "Benghazi" stuff, but it doesn't take a genius to know that there are plenty of angry terrorists out there who hate America and will do almost anything to destroy our way of life. When you are facing a ruthless enemy, you need to take every measure to fight back, and this includes military action as well as domestic measures such as wiretapping and personal data warehousing. Another thing to remember is that fighting terrorism requires a vigilant population at home that is always on the lookout for suspicious activity. It's easy to spot the terrorists overseas, but anybody could be a terrorist at home.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:05 | 3556167 IMACOINNUT
IMACOINNUT's picture

MDB

Hey jerk, read the article again and just maybe you will scratch the surface of the intended message.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:12 | 3556181 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

@MillionDollarBonus_:  You're totally missing the point.  US troops and instigators move in (via Global Corporations, Banks, etc...) and the US people are kept in the dark about that initial intrusion.  So when the oil rich citizens of a country hit back most American's are lied to thinking America is randomly hit.

 

If terrorists hated American's because they're rich and free they must like them now.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:53 | 3556586 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

And ironically most domestic "terrorism" is planned, funded and executed by the FBI (Federal Bureau of Invention) for the benefit of their own agenda.

Add in that the US government is THE aggressor around the world, and the picture becomes clear on who really are the true murders for terror.

USA! USA! USA!

Now let's sing that funny song, you know, the one with the line, "...land of the free, home of the brave." LOL, what a cruel joke.                    hujel

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:59 | 3556627 redpill
redpill's picture

"land of the debt slaves, and home of the drone pilots" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

 

BTW, MDB isn't to be taken seriously.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:44 | 3556854 jbvtme
Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:35 | 3557429 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Rogue State agrees with Dr. Paul. Cause and effect bitchez.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:58 | 3556951 PaJoad
PaJoad's picture

I think MBD is a master at setting the hook...

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 14:17 | 3557069 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

MDB does a fantastic job of parroting whatever the "company line" is in almost every field-- politics, economics, journalism, etc. Whether he is simply a sophisticated troll, or someone who just deliberately leaves off the /sarc tag for shits and giggles, he provides a valuable service in documenting the Bullshit Du Jour.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:12 | 3556200 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

I'm not an expert on all this "Benghazi" stuff

Then shut the fuck up, ass nectar.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:37 | 3556296 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Wanna know something really funny [vis-a-vis the MDB comment]?... This is a TRUE story...

~~~

I was talking to a friend of mine [who works as a 'Praetorian' for an unnamed MIC supplier], who I'd been ever so slowly, over a period of time, upping the dosage on RED PILLS for [with regards to different stories]... Anyway ~ I'm talking to this person a few days after the Benghazi story broke in an effort to help him/her see the light with regards to the "arms transfer" angle... I'm going on and on & as I am, in walks another person that both of us know, but neither knew anything about his/her occupation...

After a few minutes, CLEARLY this 'other person' became unraveled a bit & pretty much blurted out to me [paraphrasing]... "Well ~ you simply don't know what you're talking about... I happen to work for [insert alphabet soup here] & I can tell you that you're just not privy to the same information that we have"...

He/she was pretty much giving me the same story that MDB was above...

Oddly ~ the main focus of the topic of my assertations with the 'aforementioned' friend was me trying to get him/her to understand that what their bosses were telling them [IOW, the intel that they were getting from above] was horseshit...

So now you know HOW these agencies are capable of having 10's of thousands of 6 figure 'Praetorians' working for them...

TRUE STORY

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:51 | 3556332 Precious
Precious's picture

It's a riot watching these Administration doucebags try to juggle their lies.  Add "spinning bullshit" to the GNP and the USA would be growing 8% annually.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:12 | 3556425 Saint Pitbull
Saint Pitbull's picture

Not one of these countries is worthy of a warm turd, however, when they are exporting terrorists that filter through the US's porous borders and kill and maim us, and try to brainwash others, action must be taken.  The US's foreign policies have sucked for years.  It sucks in Rep administrations and it really sucks in Dem administrations.  The US effectively has NO foreign policy.  Is it any wonder with the limp dick presidents we've had for years?

And to all of the asshats who regurgitate that "we are doing it for the oil".  It seems to me that the US NEVER gets the oil!  China often does though - and I wonder how that happens?

And you know what - not an effin thing will change because the majority LoFo voters now effectively decide our elections and they:

- don't know that our young men and women are currently fighting undeclared wars

- don't know the US has military installations in over 130 countries

- who Ben Ghazi is

- think rich = bad

- couldn't find Saudi Arabia on a map

- don't know who the Vice President is (or if we even have one)

- don't pay taxes and think that the government earns its money

- think that socialism is a good thing

- can't read or write - and don't care since the reason they can't get a job is a lack of the most basic skills - it's because "life dealt them a bad hand"

But they sure know how to get an obamaphone and how to find a doctor to put them on disability and how to fill out welfare forms.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:32 | 3556498 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"when they are exporting terrorists that filter through the US's porous borders and kill and maim us, and try to brainwash others, action must be taken"

Who/what is Al-Qaeda, who funds it, and what is it's purpose?  That is your homework. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:52 | 3556580 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"Who/what is Al-Qaeda, who funds it, and what is it's purpose?  That is your homework."

First, one needs to spell it properly- It' Al CIAda.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:09 | 3557325 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"First, one needs to spell it properly- It' Al CIAda."

Al-CIA-duh!

Fixed.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:39 | 3557459 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

A Scott Adams (Dilbert) fan I see!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 16:02 | 3557604 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Lol...it's all good DINM. Thanks for the feedback. Bless.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:37 | 3556514 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Can't even finish reading this crap... Rich = $1 billion, and yes, in most cases that money was stolen, not earned.

Wealth has been stolen from 95% of the worlds population their entire life, and I only advocate returning it, nothing more, nothing less.

US is the world empire, that is the foreign policy.  China is just a scrawny kid out of high school who has been fed a steady diet of steroids and growth hormones.  Who supplied the steroids and growth hormones, and why, is the real question.   Who profited from moving all those factories oversees???

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:00 | 3556630 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Thanks for the laugh and the good cry.      hujel

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:47 | 3556339 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

MBD says "it is easy to spot a terrorists overseas." REALLY... easy?

No it is easy to spot MDB saying whatever to get a rise on ZH. I am guessing one of the Tylers makes up MBD to get more comments.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:24 | 3556472 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Well it's odd... to me anyway... that MDB comments don't, in the end, require surgical interventions by way of scrutiny from the Lodge of the juxtaposed triangular cheese popes...

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:51 | 3556348 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

A couple of people from your story may just "say something" now that they have "seen something". Do you think we will get much outside time?

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:51 | 3556558 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Good question... & I really don't know... [Nor do I really care anymore]...

~~~

Here's how a Las Vegas bookie might handicap it... [in terms of points to consider]...

- It's a TRUE STORY... [says francis_sawyer ~ but most people on this blog think I'm FOS, so the 'value' may be zero]...

- I've identified the 2 individuals as 'he/she'... Doesn't narrow it down much does it?

- Even if you take a step further, the 'he/she's' involved here have a lot more to LOSE from exposure than I do ~ because the feathers in their nests are tied into the 'cheesepopebux' system... Mine are not...

- So... Wanna TAKE IT ALL THE WAY & make an EXAMPLE out of me [which would require droning my ass, or some shit]... Fine... Do it... [In which case... it would PROVE that everything I've ever said all along is TRUE... In the end, it might be a pyrrhic victory for me]... But I'm hoping that there would be virgins waiting for me on the other side... Or, a case of Natty Boh...

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:06 | 3556171 illyia
illyia's picture

Welcome to the New World Order.

<sarc>

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:07 | 3556177 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Yes, all the gun-like-finger-pointing kindergartener terrorists must be waterboarded and brought to submission.

A bell around the neck for every patriot! Hoorah!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:14 | 3556205 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

your a treacherous SOCK PUPPET million dollar idiot.  when we have a revolution and we will, it will be nice to rid our country of the  criminal government backed diaper wearing facists like u.    If reading shit like this doesn't git you off the couch to go  buy guns and ammo, god i dont know what else will.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:18 | 3556217 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

MBD,

You do a great job here. I have griped about various posts of yours in the past "jumping the shark" or edging on falling out of character, but really, that is your point being made here. 

By working so hard to stay in this character you demonstrate for us how impossible it is to actually embody, in one consistent belief system, the strands of thought that are constantly foisted upon us by the mainstream media. It is a joke because, well, it is a joke. No one could really believe all of this, thus, it truly is bullshit and simply does not work. Ergo, they are bullshitting us because to believe as MBD does is too absurd.

You are a wonderful effigy. I personally love hating you. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:59 | 3556346 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

@MsCreant

~~~

If that's the case, you're going to simply ADORE the upcoming saga which chronicles the wacky escapades of the eclectic jazz ensemble 'Squeaky McWheel & the Yodelers'... [not to mention ~ their traveling hoard of groupies who call themselves 'The Oilers']...

"It's wonderful to be here

It's certainly a thrill

You're such a lovely audience

We'd like to take you home with us

We'd love to take you home"

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:03 | 3556395 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Well said MsC !!!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:17 | 3556228 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

MDB

I just dropped a dime on you.  It's obvious to me that you are masquerading as a super patriot to hide your real, terrorist agenda.  Nice try.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:47 | 3556341 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

Nice, I went to click the down arrow while it was at -10, and after clicking it showed -34.  Rough day MDB??

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:42 | 3556844 ATM
ATM's picture

He still gets his Obama bucks for trolling the intraweb. Good gig if you can get it.

Guess he didn't make the cut to be a Dem spokesperson.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:22 | 3556466 goBackToSleep
goBackToSleep's picture

Uh sure, and I guess jet fuel disentigrates buildings and some towelhead ass hat just so happened to take out a nice little chunk of the seal team that double tapped Bin Laden. Oh, yeah and a Youtube video sparked the benghazi thing as well. Bad news MDB, if Youtube has that much power, then surely there's an American revolution coming. Perhaps we at DHS should be datamining and preparing, oh wait..............

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:45 | 3556501 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

: )

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:36 | 3556510 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

" includes military action as well as domestic measures such as wiretapping and personal data warehousing."

 

You forgot to add door-to door warantless searches.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:53 | 3556591 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I'm not an expert on all this "Benghazi" stuff

You are an expert at trolling, I'll give you that honour.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:55 | 3556597 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

MDB, you are the best threadjacker I have seen in quite a while. You walk in here, drop a grenade, and wander off with a smile on your face, confident that everyone will be in an uproar long after you're gone. And you always succeed in your intentions.

I wish you were on our side.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 14:13 | 3557046 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

MDB:

 

Once again, a brilliant satire missed by the air-heads who respond with fire and brimstone.

 

Dear Air-heads: MDB is a satirist. His posts are ridiculing the left-wing whack jobs who rationalize the insanity in the Obama WH. He shows them to be fools without peer; masquerading as "intelligentsia" when they are, in fact, dolts.

If you are so simple that you cannot recognize satire, then you should find someone to be your Guardian Ad-Litem, because you are incapable of determining reality for yourself.

 

In this case, he skewers their tin-foil hat theories about the need for the DHS, the Utah Universal Database, drones for domestic spying by agencies forbidden to intervene in the US, warrantless searches focused on wire-taps - but now expanded by the FBI to include your private emails, and additionally by the Boston murders, warrantless searches and ejection from your home at gunpoint, and in direct violation of a specific and unmistakable constitutional prohibition, the barracking of troops in private residences without either a declaration of emergency or martial law.

 

If you can't tell this is what MDB does - just as the satirist Dr. Krugman does in his niche, you are an empty intellect.

-30-

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:45 | 3557465 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

You aren't saying anything that isn't blatantly obvious, and it doesn't make it less annoying or magically change drivel into positive contribution. It's all about the ego, nothing more.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 14:23 | 3557100 thewhitelion
thewhitelion's picture

Not sure who to call, but I'm pretty sure I just spotted an asshole.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:04 | 3556165 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

This morning's 5am radio alarm woke me up with stuff about Benghazi, saying "Americans have been lied to for over a month!"

I was too sleepy to LOL my pants off, but I did manage to get a couple of laughs in before going back to bed for another hour. I think this shit must've been NPR. Hi, I'm Mee-shalll Norris and I'm lying to your face, you idiot fuck.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:42 | 3556320 Precious
Precious's picture

+

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:11 | 3556188 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Unless the 'blowback' is intended

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:57 | 3556131 Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

Nice Wors.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:40 | 3556524 nugjuice
nugjuice's picture

Ron Paul has called out Bernank countless times, and while I'm not sure if he's specifically called out Corzine I'm sure he would if he could.

If there's one person who does care it's him.

But there's only so much one man can do. And dammit, that one man is doing a HELLUVA lot. You say fuck him to the one person who has tirelessly brought to the attention of the American people the corruption and cronyism of politicians? The one man who has inspired an entire movement of less gov't intervention and more gov't transparency?

I'd say your hatred and anger would be much better directed at...well...pretty much anyone else in the country.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 17:09 | 3557935 11b40
11b40's picture

What you say is true, but only to a certain extent.  Yes, RP has been on the anti-fed soap box for years, and raised criticizing Washington to an art form.  However, as was pointed out by an earlier poster, he never really put his money where his mouth was.  To wit, Darrel Issa knows how to use a Congressional Committee to gin up a rabid resonse to his "invertigations" and grab tons of media attention.  On the other hand, Ron Paul, who made a career out of bashing the Fed (and there is plenty there to bash), never actually DID anything about it.....and he could have. 

Official News: Dr. Paul Appointed Chairman of Domestic Monetary Policy Subcommittee


Financial Services Committee Chairman-elect Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., announced his appointments for committee leadership positions in the 112th Congress. In addition to naming the vice chairman and subcommittee leaders, Bachus announced plans to modify subcommittee jurisdictions to promote a more efficient and balanced work-load for committee members.

-Rep. Ron Paul, chairman, R-Texas, Domestic Monetary Policy Subcommittee, which has jurisdiction over domestic monetary policy, currency, precious metals, valuation of the dollar, economic stabilization, defense production, commodity prices, financial aid to commerce and industry

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:56 | 3556602 redpill
redpill's picture

 

Uh he did grill the Bernank.  And even waved some silver at him.

And as far as I know that coin is still available, I have a couple, probably should have bought a whole box, there could be a collector upside to those some day...

 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:55 | 3556125 Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

... and their bullion siphoned off...

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:03 | 3556160 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

I've tried siphoning bullion, but it always clogs the tube.  No luck yet. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:18 | 3556451 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Dammit, you made me spit my coffee. LOL

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:49 | 3556891 BeepBeepImAJeep
BeepBeepImAJeep's picture

You should ask your mother for assistance. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:21 | 3556456 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

 Lets play Central Bank of Libya  ....Gold.... Bar ...Bingo !!

 

"WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE AIR SHIPMENT WHICH WE RECEIVED SAFELY ON 23RD FEBRUARY COMPRISING 13 GOLD BARS NUMBERED FROM 1378 TO 1388 OF 996.2 FINE AND TWO BARS NUMBERED 43-44 OF 996.6 FINE STOP PLEASE SEND US AS SOON AS POSSIBLE YOUR ADVICE COVERING THE AIRFREIGHT CHARGES, THE INSURANCE PREMIUM AND YOUR OTHER EXPENSE IN ORDER TO AFFECT PAYMENT IN YOUR FAVOUR    REGARDS BANKLIBYA   TRIPOLI"

 

Lets begin ....

 

1378,  1379,  1380,   1381,   1382,   1383,   1384,   1385,   1386,    1387,   1388

 

....and finally numbers 43 and 44

 

Bingo Anyone?  Don't be shy now.....   Rebels?    Bank of England?      FRBNY?    Banque de France?      BIS?

 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:33 | 3557420 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

"Libya now has a BIS affiliated central bank and a fiat currency.  Mission accomplished."

And Libya's gold has been "secured". And the threat of the gold-backed dinar or all-africa currency has been stopped. And the largest fresh water acquifer. And lots of oil. And screwing lots of Chinese investments. Yeah...and unleashing more al-qaeda wackos on further parts of the planet.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:52 | 3556106 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Obama - One Big Ass Mistiake America!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:56 | 3556128 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

Technically, two big-ass mistakes: 2008 & 2012.  But who's counting? 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:20 | 3556237 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Leave Mrs. Obama out of it now, fight fair.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:46 | 3556333 XitSam
XitSam's picture

That's razisst.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:02 | 3556390 Hulk
Hulk's picture

and assinine !!!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:49 | 3556343 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Hillary has a big booty as well.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:35 | 3556508 Precious
Precious's picture

That's not a booty.  That's a can.  There is nothing booty about Hitlery.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:48 | 3556560 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

The only booty here is the booty being plundered from the American people. Oh and Michelle Obama's booty. And the booties on Mr. President's Superman Feetie Pajamas. Booty everywhere.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:04 | 3556166 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Because either alternative would have created a different outcome? Wake-the-fock-up.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:30 | 3556489 noless
noless's picture

Don't blame me, i voted for kodos.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:43 | 3556536 yogibear
yogibear's picture

When the liberal whack-jobs make a huge mistake it's ok to cover it up. Even go so far as to be criminal about it.

Military loss of life doesn't matter much to these junior communist.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 17:17 | 3557978 11b40
11b40's picture

"Military loss of life doesn't matter much to these junior communist."

Tell me again about Iraq.  How many lives of our soldiers have been lost there?  How many wounded, both mentally and physically?  How many more related to taking our eye off the ball in Afghanistan?

Guess mistakes are OK when done by the 'conservative' whack jobs....even if those 'mistakes' were well planned in advance.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 02:26 | 3556584 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

Not saying Obama wasn't a mistake - but there are zero good outcomes available from "electing" pre-selected puppets and extortionists to any position of influence in politics.

Voting for/against persons is a ruse.

Voting with your feet and money is a good start.

Recognizing that you are a slave is imperative.

 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:07 | 3556176 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

It wasn't worth the lives of the Iraquis killed there either...

Most of my life I have thought of the US as a great country. People died in other countries around the world... from hunger, wars, disease... because of the somehow primitive nature of their societies. It was only really as I began to realize that those of us living in the 'land of the free' were now in the crosshairs that I came to understand that these seemingly primitive people were us... Just folks wanting to raise their children and have a world in which those children could grow up...

We, all of us, are now lined up for slaughter. The only question is, will react any differently than those around the world who have been facing this kind of destruction for the last fifty years?

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:16 | 3556218 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Just remember that they were all disarmed first.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:19 | 3556232 sgorem
sgorem's picture

thanks Lord', you seem to grasp the situation well. the part "We, all of us, are now lined up for slaughter." You'll be able to recognize us "Land of the Free people" by guns WE will be carrying.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:20 | 3556236 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Sad verse I thought up in the shower a few months ago. Have yet to put a tune to it, but I imagine it will be arranged when necessary.

The culling of the herds,
We're marching along.
We know those old faces -
Death sings its song.

I also think "history is you" strikes home in more than one way.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:40 | 3556529 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Those lyrics seem to demand the Bob Seger treatment.  

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:49 | 3556562 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Gotta love nostalgia rock. <3

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:59 | 3556606 Jena
Jena's picture

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcDCvQbOdig

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:24 | 3556468 Che Guevara is Dead
Che Guevara is Dead's picture

What hippy shit have you been smoking? People are the same the world over. That's bullshit.

I've lived outside of the US in some of the places that breed terrorism. You think that everyone is the same? Tell that to the Hutu refugee I met who regrets not killing more Tutsis, or the Muslim father who spoke with pride about his hopes that his son blows himself up killing Jews the same way a soccer mom might talk about her daughter getting accepted into Harvard.

Bullshit. People are different, and just because your experience of people is limited to those of the same color, background, education and nationality doesn't mean that everyone thinks like you. It's a sign of narcissism, and a conceit that breeds folly.

Ralph Waldo Emerson once said, "The wise man shows his wisdom in separation, in gradation, and his scale of creatures and of merits is as wide as nature. The foolish have no range in their scale, but suppose every man is as every other man.”

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:37 | 3556512 marathonman
marathonman's picture

I'll give you an up-arrow for the screen name and the groovy avatar.  +1

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:50 | 3556538 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Might want to know something about the Rwandan Genocide before you spout off about "the savages".

The paper further argues that an ideology of ethnicity (which claimed Tutsi superiority over Hutu) had been in place before the Europeans arrived, but was crystallized under the Belgian colonizers who fixed once fluid labels into rigid, ethnic categories and established a system of discrimination against Hutu as a whole. And while the system would be eventually overturned, the ideology would not. The new Hutu elite would continue to maintain the myth of Tutsi and Hutu as primordial ethnic distinctions and the practice of exclusive rule of the few over the many.[source]

During the German suzerainty over Rwanda and Burundi, the authorities reinforced the system by employing Tutsis in hegemonic roles. The Belgian colonialists who succeeded them after World War I continued this policy, instituting 'ethnic' identity cards. After independence, tensions intensified. In 1972, Tutsis were responsible for a wholesale massacre of Hutus. In the 1990s, Hutus responded with counter-massacres.[Wiki]

 

The Belgians, of course, thought they were being "progressive" and "scientific". It was also, ironically, liberal Belgians who were partly responsible for the country disintergrating when they left. You can throw the CIA in there, as they were warning about the potential for massacres in 1993 and 1994.

 

Racist and Eugenic ideologies (it's called Scientific Racism) is an American and European export, and it goes back to the days of slavery (and before). That's partly why America is so pro-Jewish, your society was very involved in the ideology that lead to the Holocaust. Might want to look up who Lothrop Stoddard was. 

 

The more you know.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:52 | 3556583 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Exported to places already swimming in ethnic, linguistic, and tribal bigotries and animosities. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:15 | 3556603 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

You gotta lead from the front, that's the point of science / philosophy. Not just be the highest tech bastards who make things infinitely worse.

 

It's also why Heidegger is still worth reading, even with his rather unique background.

 

 

Oh, and you're wrong in the case of Rwanda:

The terms "Hutu" and "Tutsi" were first given significance by the early white explorers. As both Hutu and Tutsi spoke the same language, practiced the same religion, and participated in the same government, ethnographers claim that the two groups "cannot be called distinct ethnic groups" (Gourevitch, 48). Rather, the two terms referred to a caste system in which the Hutu were primarily farmers and the Tutsi were primarily herdsmen. In the Kigali Genocide Memorial, historians even claim that this status was not always permanent; by owning ten or more cattle a Hutu could become a Tutsi and vice versa. However, British explorer John Hanning Speke interpreted these terms in a different way. In what is now known as the Hamitic Myth, Speke believed that the Hutu were a typical specimen of a "primitive race," "the true curly- headed, flab- nosed, pouched- mouthed Negro" while the Tutsi were "descended from the best blood of Abyssinia" and therefore far superior (Speke, Journal of the Discovery of the Source of the Nile).[source]

 

A white English man made them different, and that particular mimetic poison is still living in them today.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 14:23 | 3557096 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Oh, I get it. A white man separated them into two arbitrary groups, which then magically caused them to start slaughtering each other.

That is the funniest line of bullshit I have heard in a very, very long time.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:16 | 3557336 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Sigh, you even got a +1 for admitting you've read nothing about the history of the conflicts at all. The Belgians issued race identity cards, and put all of one group into nice cushy offices and government positions, and the other group into the shit end of the sandwich. Which in a Belgian run colony was a VERY BIG SHIT SANDWICH.

A father looks at the severed hands of his six year old daughter in the Belgium Congo; this punishment was metered out for not meeting work quotas. NSFL.

Here's the story behind the iconic image. Also NSFL.

 

Do you think that when the white man left, the people who got fat and rich helping them were going to be popular?

 

 

Tell me again about your magical pixie land view of history, I'm sure it's fascinating to be inside your mind. I'll bring a torch, I don't like dank and dark empty caves.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:14 | 3557342 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Hey, a white man invented Crips & Bloods too. They just can't help themselves. No Agency. The more you know...

Of course you could go read primary sources from pre-colonial European explorers and learn all about cannibalism, slavery, tribal warfare, and human sacrifice, but that would upset the whole Human Equality Kult and The Ubiquitous Evil White Man Theory, wouldn't it.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:18 | 3557357 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

I think the mind-set that doesn't know about African Empires is probably immune to reality.

 

Might want to look up why Mali has a famous library in Timbuktu some time. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:36 | 3557436 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

One library (built and filled by Arab Muslims) in a continent filled with Stone Age Peoples who did not possess written languages proves what, exactly? That Africa is a stupid and savage place? Agreed.

Furthermore, the African Empires were built upon tribal warfare, theft, and trafficking of slaves. This all occurred before The Ubiquitous Evil White Man showed up. It occurs now that TUEWM has gone.

Now the genetic argument goes like this: Inclusive Fitness. Invading a neighbor's area, killing the males, raping the females, and enslaving the children increases one's Ingroup Inclusive Fitness. It has thus been positively selected for in the African environment for millions of years. Even other primates do it, presumably for the same reason.

You want to blame somebody for rampant African butchery, blame nature. This is all population biology, not a willful, selective misreading of history to advance a socio-political agenda. Immune to reality, my ass. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 16:13 | 3557555 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Seriously?

Educate yourself.

Try the Ashanti Empire (1701-1957), and try to claim they were uncivilized in comparisons to let's say, a peasant in Russia or whatever Bulgaria was then. You'll like them, big in the gold trade, defeated a few large British Empire intrusions and so on. Slavery? Yep! (A different version to the American one of the time though, and certainly nothing as horrific as the Congo). Matriarchal societal arrangements (more progressive than Europe, wink wink!) in some parts, large bureaucracy (boo!) and so on and so forth. Even had consulates for the European powers of the time, and proper houses (no mud huts!).

The introduction of the Golden Stool (Sika ?wa) was a tool of centralization under Osei Tutu. According to legend, a meeting of all the clan heads of each of the Ashanti settlements was called just prior to independence from Denkyira. In this meeting the Golden Stool was commanded down from the heavens by Okomfo Anokye, priest or sage advisor to Asantehene Osei Tutu I and floated down from the heavens into the lap of Osei Tutu I. Okomfo Anokye declared the stool to be the symbol of the new Asante Union (Asanteman), and allegiance was sworn to the stool and to Osei Tutu as the Asantehene. The newly founded Ashanti union went to war with and defeated Denkyira.[10] The stool remains sacred to the Ashanti as it is believed to contain the Sunsum — spirit or soul of the Ashanti people.

The history of the Arab (Muslim) slave trade and domination of parts of west Africa is well known, and dates back into the 12th Century. I suppose they were doing it for the inclusive fitness theory, right? Your misuse of science is so glowingly bad I can't touch it. Suffice to say it's not very accurate, historically or scientifically.

 

For the record, Europe got a massive boost to their progression due to a lot of factors; racial superiority simply wasn't one of them. There's lots of books on it, go find them.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 00:08 | 3559234 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_exploration_of_Africa

Start there, then go to the primary sources. Read what they found in Africa pre-European colonialism, and you can stop blaming The Ubiquitous Evil White Man for Africa's troubles.

And yes, Arabs are no more immune to Inclusive Fitness than any other group of hominids on planet Earth. A useful study could be done to determine why gorillas, of all higher primates, are not known to engage in this activity. Perhaps because they are vegetarian.. (oooh! so progressive!)

Anyway, Ashanti conquered its neighbors in exactly the same way I have described above: Kill the males, rape the females, enslave the children. For the record, Rome's modus operandi was pretty much the same. It is in our genes, and all empires have been formed this way.

This is not the "Europoids are superior to Negroids" thread you are looking for. This is the "debunking pithy Multicultural Marxist dogma" thread.

I've read your other posts, you have a brain. Use it to graduate from the multiculture kindergarten you've coccooned yourself in. A Mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:17 | 3559919 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

I'm aware of slavery existing in Africa in pre-European times; I've never claimed that it didn't exist, I specified that Europeans actively encouraged it (and in Rwanda's case, it appears at least to be partially egalitarian in nature prior to European involvement). For instance, among the Ndongo (who were crushed by the Portuguese - by the way, your own sources clearly show that it was European pressure for slaves that supported the more violent Empires vrs their neighbours, try reading it yourself):

Social structure was anchored on the ana murinda ("children of the murinda") or free commoners. In addition to the commoners, there were two servile groups  – the ijiko (sing., kijiko), unfree commoners who were permanently attached to the land as serfs, and the abika (sing., mubika) or salable slaves.

However, to argue that "a slave is a slave is a slave" is both true and false at the same time. Greek slaves, African slaves, American slaves. All had vastly different experiences and expectations; to argue otherwise is pure sophistry. The blanket generalization over different Empire actions is also reductio ad absurdum (I'll refer you to comments made about Coke products - same system, different ingredients, different taste at the end).

 

And now, onto Inclusive Fitness (with wiki for the gallery), which you are stretching to a massive degree to justify a racial reading of history:

In evolutionary biology and evolutionary psychology, the inclusive fitness of an organism is judged by the number of offspring it has, how they support them, and how their offspring could support others. [1] Advocates of inclusive fitness theory say that an organism can improve its overall genetic success by altruistic social behavior.

From the gene's point of view, evolutionary success ultimately depends on leaving behind the maximum number of copies of itself in the population. Until 1964, it was generally believed that genes only achieved this by causing the individual to leave the maximum number of viable offspring. However, in 1964 W. D. Hamilton proved mathematically that, because close relatives of an organism share some identical genes, a gene can also increase its evolutionary success by promoting the reproduction and survival of these related or otherwise similar individuals. [wiki]

ONE of the central dogmas of modern behavioral ecology is that blood kinship plays a critical role in understanding the evolution of social behavior, particularly of costly social behavior such as altruism and cooperation. But it was not always so, and what I would like to do in this Perspectives is provide some historical context that led up to William Hamilton's seminal work developing inclusive fitness theory. The story begins, not surprisingly, with Charles Darwin...

In Hamilton's model, natural selection favors the gene for altruism whenever r × b > c. This equation has become known as Hamilton's Rule and can be distilled down to this: if a gene(s) for altruism is to evolve, then the cost (c) of altruism must somehow be balanced by compensating benefits to the altruist. In Hamilton's model, the cost is balanced by benefits (b) accrued by blood relatives of the altruist, because relatives may carry the gene for altruism as well. But relatives have only some probability, r, of carrying the gene in question, and so the benefits received must be weighted by that probability. [source - read all about it there, especially on Huxley and Kropotkin]

 

This does not equal rape and slavery. If it did, everyone within an Empire would be altruistic to their own citizens (due to your mass rape and buggery section), something your own society clearly shows is not happening. Using your own logic (and remembering that Genghis Khan can claim 0.5% of the world's genetics) and basic math, everyone is related already. If you are of European descent, you are probably a descendant of Charlemagne. Once you are able to prove your line of descent from him, you will then find thousands of links to other royalty in your list of relatives.[source]

 

By your own logic if Empires were an expression of Inclusive Fitness to select for blood relation and the altruism gene, we would already be living in a paradise of co-operation.

 

Unless you missed it, I've already linked to "The Monkey In The Machine and the Machine in the Monkey" (it's the Vimo link labeled "Belgium thought it was being "scientific" and "progressive", you obviously missed the snark). I'm also aware that Hamilton was a eugenicist: the book (trilogy) is titled "Narrow roads in gene land", you'll want book 2.

"If humans turn out to be near the Kondrashov limit —that is, if on average every gamete has one bad mutation created during the lifetime of its producer— it is obviously not going to be nearly enough to test a baby for the subset of the few hundreds or so of well-characterized genetic defects (...) There are certainly tens of thousands more possible mutations that the baby could have that have not been characterized well enough ..." (p. 465).

Here is an excellent page on the topic.

 

The problem you've got is that Hamilton was NOT talking about specific groups, he was talking about EVERY SINGLE HUMAN GENOME. He wasn't favoring one group over another, which is where your pigmy like reading of the subject has taken you, he was looking at the ENTIRE SPECIES.

You'll also want to look into MtdEve and so on, which I've mentioned elsewhere, as Hamilton's work was on all species, not just the homo sapien genome which has the somewhat rarity of a massive bottleneck very early on.

 

tl;dr

 

My mind isn't cocooned in a "multicultural Marxist dogma", YOURS is mired in "too old, too un-plastic and too rigid" to actually grokk what reality means. I suggest getting some nootropics in your mummified mind before it ceases to function entirely. You'll probably want to sit down before trying to work out where I was going with comments on domesticated pets as well, heart attacks can kill.

 

You're getting slow, old man.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:19 | 3559985 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Slave.  Slave labor.  Free.  No cost.  It's a fucking wet dream bitch.  A FUCKING WET DREAM. and you KNOW IT.  it isn't a custume party.  Profit over everything.  Lead me to th money you whore.  You can't hide what you are. 

Cut and paste bitch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqN0ZOEO9oI

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 09:45 | 3560127 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

What I am is infinitely sadder and more pathetic than what you imagine. It's a mirror, remember? If we're on the subject of genetics, killing off all the empathic ones is a really bad move if you want a sane society. Mental health rates in America, tell you something? The sane thing to do would be to value them highly, not just the sociopaths who can function in markets. But yes, it would appear that America and so on is expressing a rather lop-sided ideology at this point; it's regressive.

The fantasy is particularily silly.

 

Capital functions like gravity, as a tip. Might want to look into the ultimate fate of Stars to get a picture.

 

 

"Cut and paste bitch". That had style, +1

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 12:21 | 3560678 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

if u 2 wish to bury the partisan beef and take a deeper look at this topic, check out the Seven Daughters of Eve:

https://www.powells.com/biblio/9780393323146

particularly interesting is the DNA haplogroup X:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)

somewhere between modern science, ancient mythology, tribal ideology & eugenic history hides a Holy Grail.    and starts way way way back when in of all places, Africa.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 13:04 | 3561117 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Thanks for providing the links. I assume Zero Hedge readers can do the readings and decide for themselves. The study of population biology and behavioral ecology is certainly varied and complex. And so, we can conclude that The Ubiquitous Evil White Man Theory is false, or at least remarkably premature. I rest my case.

Here's some neuro-plasticity for you: Inclusive fitness is not only selecting for altruism. It's also selecting for aggression. A successful rape & pillage warrior band leaves more copies of itself and controls more resources to provide for one's ingroup. Thus, more tribal aggression, more reproduction. And spare me the Lewontin's fallacy that we are all so closely related that no competition among tribes is necessary. If intergroup competition was not necessary, it would not exist, having been bred out of the primate and hominid lineage several millions of years ago.

Anyway, enjoyed the workout, & the Zedge can come to its own conclusions.

Cheers,

Beef

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 13:50 | 3561371 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

Inclusive fitness is not only selecting for altruism. It's also selecting for aggression

very true.   the question remains as to whether this is still necessary for survival of the species or whether it's a relic of times past now only necessary for the survival of the most aggressive of the species, who just happen to always be in control of the Rules of the Game of Human Civilization.   the rules of which (when indocrinated over generations, centuries, millenia) influence (the amount of which is open to friendly debate) through epigenetics how the code of inclusive fitness is written in the genome.

If intergroup competition was not necessary, it would not exist

indeed.   this is why sport & games are so important to societies.   kumbaya is cool in small doses, but it gets a little stale after awhile.    if we agree that competition is necessary, is it instead more the question as to which Game does competition serve?     if it's a zero-sum game, then is that the only game there is?   and if not, then do we all not have the life-inherent right to choose another game to play?

“No one can play a game alone. One cannot be human by oneself. There is no selfhood where there is no community. We do not relate to others as the persons we are; we are who we are in relating to others. Simultaneously the others with whom we are in relation are themselves in relation. We cannot relate to anyone who is not also relating to us. Our social existence has, therefore, an inescapably fluid character... this ceaseless change does not mean discontinuity; rather change is itself the very basis of our continuity as persons.” 

p.s. fascinating discussion, my friends.   too bad the thread is dead, but happy to keep it alive for awhile longer if you are...

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 20:19 | 3562770 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

This whole debate has been timely, there's a lot of X-pollination going on across the infosphere regarding these issues. Since you mentioned Lewontin's fallacy, once again proving never to underestimate your dancing partner, I'll provide you with a couple of links stolen shamelessly from Metafilter (so no credit for my thievery):

 

Of course not. We remain the same species, just as a poodle and a beagle are of the same species. But poodles, in general, are smarter than beagles, and beagles have a much better sense of smell. We bred those traits into them, of course, fast-forwarding evolution. But the idea that natural selection and environmental adaptation stopped among human beings the minute we emerged in the planet 200,000 years ago – and that there are no genetic markers for geographical origin or destination – is bizarre. It would be deeply strange if Homo sapiens were the only species on earth that did not adapt to different climates, diseases, landscapes, and experiences over hundreds of millennia. We see such adaptation happening very quickly in the animal kingdom. Our skin color alone – clearly a genetic adaptation to climate – is, well, right in front of one’s nose. [The Dish Bias seems classically "objective" in a WASPish fashion]

 

There is no strong evidence for specific gene variants (alleles) that lead to group differences (differences between clusters) in behavior or intelligence, but progress on the genomic side of this question will be rapid in coming years, as the price to sequence a genome is dropping at an exponential rate.

What seems to be true (from preliminary studies) is that the gene variants that were under strong selection (reached fixation) over the last 10k years are different in different clusters. That is, the way that modern people in each cluster differ, due to natural selection, from their own ancestors 10k years ago is not the same in each cluster -- we have been, at least at the genetic level, experiencing divergent evolution. In fact, recent research suggests that 7% or more of all our genes are mutant versions that replaced earlier variants through natural selection over the last tens of thousands of years.[Steve Hsu physicist outside his domain, but at least doing analysis of the data]

Our recent evolution, after the dispersal of human populations across the world, was much faster than the evolution of Late Pleistocene populations. In adaptive terms, it is really true -- we're more different from early "modern" humans today, than they were from Neandertals. Possibly many times more different.[Hsu again, discussing the Reich Neanderthal paper I've mentioned before]

 

I find it interesting that Sullivan uses the dog analogy.

The bottom line is that retrogressive Racial profiling / Eugenics is clearly bad science and a disaster, especially when used for political / sociological ends. And again, I think you're conflating vastly complicated social interactions as "selecting for aggression / violence": WWI etc were indiscriminate in their slaughter, and warfare since ancient times has been vastly more to do with tactics, intelligence, luck and tech than your aggressiveness - as the independent Gaulish tribes found out. Past the level of the mythology of Greek heroes / Anglo-Saxon epics, simply selecting for aggression doesn't help you at all. (And all of this is hiding the elephant in the room, which is just how much genetic / phenotypic expression matters - I've mentioned it before that it's merely one small part of a massive pie). I'll refer simply to my lack of concern over "race" (or "Ancestry" as Reich calls it) as an issue for the 21st Century; if, that is, if people can get out of this tribalist mindset when conceptually framing it (the Other).

 

tl;dr

 

Science is doing science on it. Doing politics while mis-reading / twisting the science is often stunningly dumb and dangerous.

Dogs snarl and fight no matter their 'breed', although you can certainly train them to be ultra aggressive or passive through your treatment of them. Kick them / stress them, force them to fight; get dogs that cannot be socialized & will bite you; treat them kindly as part of a pack, feed them, pet them, play with them; get nicely socialized family pets. Ho-hum, the lesson seems obvious, doesn't it? Apart from the potential culling, that's not really an ethical position.

 

...oh, and we're right back to the full length version of Metropolis, once again. And there's another elephant in this room, that we're not mentioning, but there we go. To infinity and beyond.

 

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 22:56 | 3563333 tip e. canoe
Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:50 | 3557531 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Actually he is very insightful, in a way you,`just don't get`, no one thought they would be slaughtering each other, then, but consequences are often intended! People never know the consequences of their actions, they only think they do!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:57 | 3557572 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

The Beligans were well aware of how badly they acted in the Congo. There was serious scandal in Europe over their King's actions out there, even in the times where "the darkies" were sub-human.

Here's a BBC documentary on it.

 

As for Rwanda, that was more just generally not giving a fuck. Belgium stripped out the country before leaving raising a large middle finger; they did not leave gracefully.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:13 | 3557338 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

I'll take Strauss over Heidegger for sake of simplicity, and sincerely hope I never have to brush up on the former.  In regards to the mess that the Europeans I brought to Africa, It wasn't Rwanda (which I avoid like the plague) but rather some other colonies I had in mind, so it's not surprising that my generalization was lacking.  Looking at Cameroon, Guinea, Kenya, and some others a pattern emerges where over colonial withdrawal where among those who stood against the Colonial powers there is a tendency for the dominant tribe to lose enough blood that it's place on top of the waste-heap of corrupted totalitarianism is taken over by a less bold tribe who relatively stands back and lets the former do its dirty work and the consequences continue to reverberate to this day.  In Kenya, the the Luo gained power on the backs of the Kikuyu, and until there is another major change in its path- they will continue to struggle as they did in 2007.  Which raises the question, do the Americans ever throw off their colonizers or are they condemned to a Heideggeresque nightmare, and if they do manage to achieve independence- can they keep it, or do we get another Luo climbing over our corpses to take advantage of the situation?  My Philosophy isn't that deep since I took the Finance & extra-circulars route through university, but perhaps you aware of someone who has pondered the issue of an exit strategy and come up with a possible solution (other than Marcus Aurelius- which is a really hard sell to the masses these days)?

html coding is not one of my strong suits BTW <a.../a> is pushing it- without knowing what I'm looking for

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 16:01 | 3557457 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Put it this way: when the Chinese, with their model of economic intrusion, are viewed as the good guys, your record has to be pretty shitty. Looking at big oil here, and of course, the good old alphabet agencies. [Arms Dealers, they should get a mention, hey-ho]. (I've certainly heard a Canadian state that their record was shit there, and the Chinese were "kicking our arses").

I can't and won't claim any real deep knowledge of current African politics, barring the obvious cases of corruption (Idi, Idi, Idi, sorry, meant Mugabe) and extractive economics. My supermarket basket is full of their produce though, so I'm just as tied into it as anyone else. (No moral high ground here). It's a continent, and vastly beyond my abilities to summarize in a forum post.

There's positive stories out there, for sure, and the press are partly blame for only ever running "look how shit this shitty continent is" headlines. Development programs are too tied to Religion in most cases, imo, but there we go.

 

It's about the only continent who loves Bush which is ironic:

"It was the Bush administration that first raised the alarm about the atrocities in Darfur, organised a massive humanitarian relief effort to save people in the displaced camps, and rallied an international coalition to send peacekeeping troops to restore order through the United Nations and the African Union," he added.

When Mr Bush arrived in Tanzania in February, President Jakaya Kikwete poured praise on him.

"Different people may have different views about you and your administration and your legacy," he said.

"But we in Tanzania, if we are to speak for ourselves and for Africa, we know for sure that you, Mr President, and your administration have been good friends of our country and have been good friends of Africa"....

What has really boosted Mr Bush's popularity there has been his decision to increase aid to Africa and the economic and health programmes he supported in the continent.

Overall, foreign aid doubled during the Bush administration, and in Africa it quadrupled from $1.3bn in 2001 to $5bn in 2008.

Additional billions of dollars were allocated to support his programmes to fight malaria and HIV/Aids and to reward good governance, programmes which have been viewed as a great success.[BBC 2009]

 

Not so sure the drone bases are going to get the same positive press.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:59 | 3556621 Che Guevara is Dead
Che Guevara is Dead's picture

AEM

I know enough about the slaughter thank you because I was in Tanzania at a Hutu refugee camp in 1994. 

So past slaughters justify current ones? Don't care because it's clear you need to go back on your meds.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:08 | 3556647 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

You missed the point so spectacularly that I'm actually going to green you for the audacity of it.

 

 

The point is how to cure said ideological / mimetic poisoning, something we're all pondering on (or should be, the ones who can frame it mentally. Please note you're not in this group apparently).

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:04 | 3556654 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Che, you are at least contemporaneously if not scientifically correct that people are different.  BUT, add to that the psycho-dogma that is prevalent in 'different' cultures, and you have an orders-of-magnitude greater chance of conflict/compassion.

Personally, I've gotten to the point that I really don't give a rat's ass if all these psycho-dogma factions wish to exterminate each other.  I think you're mis-interpreting Lordflin's main point though, and embodying the spirit of Jack Nicholson's character in Easy Rider who said; "Don't ever tell anyone they're not free- 'cos if you do, they'll get real busy maimin' and killin' just to prove how "free" they are.

Tue, 05/14/2013 - 10:44 | 3560434 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

That is not what I wrote... perhaps you should learn to follow a line of reasoning... As to my limited experience with those of other races... you do not know the first thing about me, and that was, to say the least, a poor conclusion.

Perhaps you should attempt to entertain the ideas of others after first attempting to clear your head of clutter...

And sorry for the somewhat biting response, but this line of reflexive reasoning has long since begun to irk me...

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:03 | 3556644 Che Guevara is Dead
Che Guevara is Dead's picture

I also find it ironic that many of the same people who spout off the "people are people" meme on the Left hate Jews. So it's really "people are people EXCEPT the Jews." 

Irony... It's not just for breakfast anymore. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:04 | 3556655 Aurora Ex Machina
Mon, 05/13/2013 - 14:22 | 3557090 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

From what I can see, certain people, call them banksters (Bernanke, Greenspan, Rockefeller, Rothschild), get criticized for their actions.

You know, fraud, deceit.  Usury. Fractional reserve banking, with fiat currency. They financed the slave trade back in the day.  They finance both sides of wars.  Today their goal is debt slavery for all.

Now, these banksters, by and large, self-identify as followers of Judaism.   This is where they've fooled most people, esp. other followers of Judaism.  Personally, I've always thought actions speak louder than words, and these people (banksters) were clearly not spiritual whatsoever in the conventional sense.  So the natural conclusion is they only pay lip service to being followers of Judaism?

Why?  Why would they do that?

And as a side note, why are people who criticize bankster's actions labelled as 'anti-semitic'?  Sure is convenient for the bankster, though, who never has to seriously address the criticism.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 13:19 | 3556713 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Damn, brother!  You gave an example of your own psycho-dogma before I could type and post a reply.  Kudos!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:36 | 3556511 Burt Gummer
Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:46 | 3556072 fourchan
fourchan's picture

benghazi is a prime example of liberals believing wrongly that democracy is a good thing, and the way for developing these theocracies.

this wrong headed thinking caused this socialist executive and legislative faction to relax, comfortable in the lie bubble they are surrounded by.

then as rudely as the ambassadors ass was fucked by the invaders, before he was set on fire; reality pierced into their lie bubble leaving them too speechless.

which is more evil in its resulting effects, democracy or mohammed, only time will tell.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:51 | 3556110 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your post is officially the dumbest thing I've read today, especially in response to this article which points out that "Republicans in Congress also want to shift the blame. They supported the Obama Administration’s policy of bombing Libya and overthrowing its government."   What part of both parties are the same didn't you get?

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:11 | 3556153 OpTwoMistic
OpTwoMistic's picture

Any reference to indicate support from either party?  I do not remember reading about support other than this article.

Did not king O work this thru the UN avoiding congress?

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:15 | 3556211 illyia
illyia's picture

You have not been paying attention.

Or perhaps you are two optimistic...

op·ti·mism

1: a doctrine that this world is the best possible world

 2: an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome

Examples of OPTIMISM
  1. Both of them expressed optimism about the future of the town.
  2. The early sales reports are cause for optimism.
  3. There is growing optimism that the problem can be corrected.
  4. He maintains a sense of optimism, despite all that has happened.

Origin of OPTIMISM

French optimisme, from Latin optimum, noun, best, from neuter of optimus best; akin to Latin ops power — more at opulent
First Known Use: 1759
Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:26 | 3556244 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Other Examples of OPTIMISM:

1. Bob expressed optimism about the economy, noting that the market goes up every single fucking day regardless of the bad economic news so it must be getting better.

2.     Jane expressed optimism that a currency crisis is not around the corner despite the fact that Ben prints $80B each fucking month and gives it to his banking buddies.

3.     There is growing optimism that America has not turned into a complete fucking police state where militarized police carrying high capacity automatic weapons can bust into houses without a warrant because there's an unarmed guy hiding in a boat somewhere in that City.

4.     He maintains a sense of optimism that he will ever be able to retire even though he is relying on a 401K that will lose all of its value and be taxed into oblivion to pay for the $80B that Ben prints each fucking month and gives to the banking buddies.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:56 | 3556372 fourchan
fourchan's picture

the lax mental state caused benghazi, and the state was caused by the wrongheaded

liberal thinking in both branches of government that arabs are humane, reasonable,

or want democracy in a different sense than mob rule which is all democracy is.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:26 | 3556467 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

So your answer to driving a spike into your eye is to drive a rusty spike into the other?

 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:12 | 3556202 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

Of course the official reason is wrong, but the masses are stupid enough to believe whatever they are being told. The obvious stupidity of the propaganda is directly proportional to the ignorance of the masses. You can actually accelerate and intensify the propaganda once the viewers have been softened. For those watching the show from a distance, it looks utterly absurd.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:46 | 3556078 0z
0z's picture

Why does Mr. Paul still care about political parties?

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:50 | 3556094 Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

because unfortuantely that is our predicament of 2 "diff" sides of the same coin

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:57 | 3556377 UGrev
UGrev's picture

He's cared enough to continualy point out that there is really only one party. Unfortunatey, he was to work within the system of labels. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:46 | 3556079 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

RE:

Democrats in Congress have offered the even less convincing explanation for Benghazi, that somehow the attack occurred due to Republican sponsored cuts in the security budget at facilities overseas. With a one trillion dollar military budget, it is hard to take this seriously.

Well, it used to be a $1.5-$2 trillion budget, so they do have somewhat of a point.  Pigs gonna pig.

Either way, it's all bullshit.  This is all a smokescreen for the political class to not talk about the real issues.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:48 | 3556087 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

" This is all a smokescreen for the political class to not talk about the real issues."

Exactly!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:48 | 3556088 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

"In the empire of lies, truth is treason" - Ron Paul

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:48 | 3556089 Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

3.1 trillion and counting.....

 

http://costsofwar.org/article/economic-cost-summary

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:48 | 3556090 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Fucking Neo-cons make me sick to my stomach........

12 yr long wars are by fucking Neo-con/Imperial design...........

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:48 | 3556091 j.tennquist
j.tennquist's picture

I absolutely disagree with Doctor Paul on this one:  It's not a "sideshow" when the government lies about anything, no matter how trivial.  The fact that he (Ron Paul) makes less of the deception is a reminder of why politicians get away with lying all the time. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:54 | 3556120 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Dude, "when it gets serious, one has to lie!" You didn't think that this was any different in the USA, did you?

"It's not a "sideshow" when the government lies about anything, no matter how trivial." Of course not, it is business as usual! D'oh!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:58 | 3556139 j.tennquist
j.tennquist's picture

Hardly the point.  

Why is intervention more evil then lying?   They are both equally treacherous, no? 

Anyway, you get the government you deserve.  Ron Paul should know that much for certain. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:02 | 3556157 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Oh, maybe I didn't make myself clear: I agree , that they are equally treacherous. And both should be abandoned.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 12:13 | 3556135 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Exactly...  earth to Ron, these people do not give a shit and the fact that they can bounce blame off each other allows them to continue the "interventionist" policies their benefactors so desire...  His entire article is from the perspective that these people are too stupid to understand the implications of their foreign policy...  earth to Ron, they have no stance on the matter...  they're automatons to who pays them the most...  and war pays a lot.  Neither side is incentivized, in the slightest, to de-escalate the situation.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 15:05 | 3557309 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

hmmm, I didn't pick up 'trying to reason' with the automatons. I picked up it's time to fucking nuke them.  But that's just me and where I am at this point in the cluster fuck.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:49 | 3556096 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

Not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier

Otto von Bismarck

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:49 | 3556098 irie1029
irie1029's picture

Bottom line the US government it too big NOT to fail only a matter of time.  The majority of US citizens are too stupid and lazy to get government under control.  They deserve what they get. 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:09 | 3556185 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

The size of the the government is a symptom of the the problem, not the problem itself.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:50 | 3556102 orez65
orez65's picture

We spend $4 to $6 Trillion on wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia.

We sacrifice thousands of American lives.

So that the price of oil stays low????!!!!!!

WTF!!!!

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:52 | 3556116 kito
kito's picture

oil prices are low?????

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 10:58 | 3556134 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Well, oil prices are relatively low; as in "the rest of the world pays $6-$10 for petro, and we only pay $3-$4.50 bc if we can't sell it at that price, we will fucking bomb the shit out of you."

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:05 | 3556169 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

If you think this is cheap, fill up your Ferrari in Riyadh

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:29 | 3556272 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

or Vietnam

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:39 | 3556302 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

much closer Venezuela! 20 cents a gallon

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:23 | 3556249 OpTwoMistic
OpTwoMistic's picture

Shizz

Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 56 percent of the pump price.  Same as O wants for you.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:24 | 3556252 e-recep
e-recep's picture

>oil prices are low?????

you need to get out more often........ i mean to europe or south america and see what they are paying for oil.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:02 | 3556156 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

When you consider that the petro dollar is backed by the might of the U.S military it's an accurate statement. Do you really think that oil prices would be this low, compared to the rest of the world, if trade wasn't forced to settle in crazy Bernanke bucks? 

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:09 | 3556183 kito
kito's picture

doc with the worlds largest economy using gasoline at levels not seen in over a decade, my guess is that without the bennybucks flowing into oil futures.......oil would be much lower on its own right now....................

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:17 | 3556224 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I don't think Benny bucks has much to do with the real cost of oil, only the nominal cost. It's about dollar hegemony, mostly.

Mon, 05/13/2013 - 11:26 | 3556261 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Kito is absofuckinglutely right.

$1.26/gallon by napkin calculations.

Enforcement [lack of] and racketeering set the price of oil, not real discovery.

Warfare is a red herring and fun to talk about.  The skinning is done by banks and Bernanke's fraud-press.

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