This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Visualizing The Great Gold Rout

Tyler Durden's picture


After a decade long rally, gold recroded its biggest two-day drop in 30 years during April. What caused this sudden decline? Is the gold cycle over, or is this just a dip in the market?



- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:07 | 3570923 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture



Keep the phyz, and the faith.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:11 | 3570936 Devotional
Devotional's picture

I am keeping my physical but I am beginning to worry ... should I worry???

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:13 | 3570940 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Worry about what?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:20 | 3570953 Devotional
Devotional's picture

should I worry about the value going to the dogs?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:23 | 3570962 espirit
espirit's picture

As the price goes down, I'm going to keep buying until there isn't any more.

SOP in Bizzaro World.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:41 | 3571011 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

A paper market in gold will always go lower without support. Support has been withdrawn. The paper gold market is dead. After that we will get a physical only market if we are lucky.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:38 | 3571126 malikai
malikai's picture

All I wanna know is..

Can I buy gold with an EBT card?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:47 | 3571147 nmewn
nmewn's picture


But ya gotta use the ATM outside the local titty bar.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:04 | 3571475 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

This is bullshit. Ask yourself this, if we live in a world where any central bank can print enough new money to buy all the worlds' gold, why isn't it constantly being shipped from one country to another at ever increasing prices? Why are China and Russia constrained to adding to their reserves FROM MINIMG SUPPLIES, and why will it take 7 years to repatriate one 10th of Germany's gold to the Bundesbank?

The answer is that gold is still, and has been for 50 years now the only 'commodity' that isn't for sale FOR ANY AMOUNT OF PAPER MONEY in the central banking system.

Why is that?

The answer is IMO because TPTB after WWII required collateral to make loans to rebuild a devastated Germany and Europe post war when there was no effective collateral other than gold. They needed to create new collateral to fund the rebuild, fast, and that collateral was debt. It was a requirement. They've done this before, they know how this ends, they knew how this would end back then and so do we now if you have any sense. It ends in both inflation and default, and when it does the only countries with gold will still be the post WWII powers i.e England and the US. Every other country including Asia knows that when the default finally comes the asset side of their now somewhat T Bill bloated balance sheets will implode, counterparty risk will be 100% and they will have no gold for their currency.

Try as they might there is no way the Fed or the BoE will allow any central bank to take gold paid for in post war fiat hence China and Russia scrabbling for mining supply.

If you want to go invest in the stock market go knock yourself out, I'm sure when push comes to shove you will find plenty of very tall fiat paid for buildings to jump off.

Me, I've got gold so I'm still struggling to give a shit.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:17 | 3571513 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Excellent summation.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:27 | 3571538 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Thanks, the gold market always was and still is THE most important market in the world, ever.

All these efforts at reducing interest rates are all ultimately to one end, to suppress the real price of gold, and they and we know it...

Let's face it, it might be some time before the gold price goes up, but ultimately it will be the only thing left.

So where's the risk? The answer is tax, watch out for that...

'The tax man cometh, and he drives a big fucking truck'

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:40 | 3571612 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Understood...but the tax man doesn't know what fiat "price" I exchanged at...the date is only when it was minted, not when I exchanged.

It could have been yesterday or forty years ago. So its an issue of trust without a paper trail.

And time is one of their mechanisms for assessing value...and so it is with me. Of course we already know how trustworthy and above board they are, with the news of late ;-)

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:50 | 3571657 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

True. I think we've had this discussion before, my choice is to hold my gold in a different country in a recognised vault and behind a compliant tax plan.

The tax office is not one I'd choose to pick a fight with.

Different horses for different courses I suppose...

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 07:01 | 3572191 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...well stated.

I'm not picking a fight with them but they extract their tax at the point of my earning it, before I even get my hands on it. Federal, progressive income taxation.

In a fair tax system that should be the end of it. Now that would make a great separate ZH post, to see how the statists define "fairness".

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 01:51 | 3571970 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

How big a truck do you need to collect something that was lost in a tragic boating accident.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 07:03 | 3572195 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You'd be surprised how many boats I've lost over the years.

So I'm thinking I could do it on a motorcycle ;-)

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 13:38 | 3573453 DadzMad
DadzMad's picture

+1 for "I'm struggling to give a shit".  I'm going to borrow that one.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:20 | 3571363 auric1234
auric1234's picture

I recognise your FOFOA-speak but can't understand it.

What does "support" mean?


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 02:47 | 3572015 dunce
dunce's picture

I think it is like a jock strap, it holds your family treasures safe and secure.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:25 | 3570970 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

my dogs eat gold for breakfast

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:26 | 3570973 blindman
blindman's picture

dogs eat their own shit, not gold. they have
no use for it.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:36 | 3570997 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Gold dogs only.  The value of those paper dollars will eventually go to the junkyard dogs.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:41 | 3571010 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

No you should not worry about your gold

In Europe our fondness and respect for the value of gold is very, very ancient ... it goes back centuries.

Unlike Americans, we tend not to talk about it, partly because money-talk is often not so 'polite' here ... and partly because with things like gold, the value is assumed and understood, more than discussed.

Europe has seen revolutions, wars, foreign military occupation on a grand scale ... still within the living memory of elderly Europeans

Currencies come and go ... governments and armies come and go ... we know that here, so the place of gold among assets is almost instinctive ... we don't doubt gold's value ... this recent volatility in 'paper gold prices' barely registers with us. We think more of ounces and grammes.

When the Nazis occupied Belgium in the 1940s, a lot of gold went buried deeply into the garden dirt ... and stayed there till after the swastika flags were gone.

There is lots of gold here, very quietly ... no one really knows how much, because it is truly 'private' here, ha! (lots of privately-owned guns here, too, which we also don't discuss that much) ... Both the guns and the gold were useful for surviving the Nazi era ... and as we know in Europe, the wheel of history can turn

Keep the gold ... and the guns ... and like they say, a getaway or at least hiding-the-assets plan

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:45 | 3571022 Devotional
Devotional's picture

now that is a reassuring comment! Thanks :)

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:46 | 3571026 Devotional
Devotional's picture

now that is a reassuring comment! Thanks :)

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:48 | 3571028 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Good to know. Here in 'Merica, we're pretty dumb.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:57 | 3571052 knukles
knukles's picture



Hey Madge, git me 'nuther beer, girl.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:02 | 3571066 nmewn
nmewn's picture

In Amurika the one demanding is now named Clara ;-) 


Such a sweet

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 02:53 | 3572017 dunce
dunce's picture

Black plastic sewer drain pipe is cheap and rugged and makes a good underground vault and if you rent a post hole digger the metal will be deep enough not to show up on a metal detector.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:22 | 3570958 Hangfire
Hangfire's picture

The only thing you should be worried about is that the IRS now knows you have gold.  Get ready for the audit!    

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:26 | 3570974 Devotional
Devotional's picture

luckily i am across the atlantic :)

i have read what the IRS has been doing in the USA. Sad to say the least and that is something Zimbabwe or any other dictatorship would do. Sorry guys, you ain't in the land of the free no more :(

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:50 | 3571032 nmewn
nmewn's picture

First post...4/25/2013...I don't think you've fought yet, its in the rules.

"Should I worry?"

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:59 | 3571056 knukles
knukles's picture

Punch him. nmewn.



Wherz thet God damn beer, Madge?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:49 | 3571153 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Yah, Yah, hit him so hard that he'll see stars, bars and old popeye cartoons !!!

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 01:39 | 3571954 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"I'm gonna beat you till candy comes out!"

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:01 | 3571062 Devotional
Devotional's picture

true, i just signed up recently. so, where is the fight? I am in!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:04 | 3571067 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Why do you value gold in fiat...were you programed that way?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:19 | 3571097 knukles
knukles's picture

Kick him in the nuts when he ain't lookin' nmewn


Madge, where's that fucking beer, woman?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:50 | 3571157 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You lost already man, better cut back on the alcohol...

(Stop getting him that beer Marge)

(but she do like it when he has his beer goggles on...)

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:06 | 3571197 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"luckily i am across the atlantic :)"

That made me laugh.  No one will watch your back like your brothers in spirit.  Mark my words, you will be tested and asked.. "who are you Mo Fo."

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:26 | 3570977 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Tell them you traded it for crack.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:29 | 3570983 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Come and git it, boys!  The IRS just dipped below cockroaches on the "necessary life form hierarchy" for most Americans, and will be dealt with as such.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:17 | 3571088 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

For what it's worth, went down to the wholesaler to pick up another MB this week and asked him whether gold was reportable. Just some but not eagles in rolls.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 02:00 | 3571984 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

You people are really struggling to grasp the hole in bottom of boat concept today.

This is the one of the truly valuable characteristics of gold that often gets over looked. It is one of THE ONLY entities that has intrinsic value (rarity) that can be held completety outside of the banking system and away from prying and despotic government hands.

Power hates gold, hates it to it's very last atom. It's something TPTB cannot control. Real estate can be seen and taxed, stocks can be taxed if they don't just vanish, bank accounts can be stolen, . Gold, tragically lost in a boating accident cannot be traced, ever and this is like an ice pick in the temple of tyranny.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 02:00 | 3571985 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

You people are really struggling to grasp the hole in bottom of boat concept today.

This is the one of the truly valuable characteristics of gold that often gets over looked. It is one of THE ONLY entities that has intrinsic value (rarity) that can be held completety outside of the banking system and away from prying and despotic government hands.

Power hates gold, hates it to it's very last atom. It's something TPTB cannot control. Real estate can be seen and taxed, stocks can be taxed if they don't just vanish, bank accounts can be stolen, . Gold, tragically lost in a boating accident cannot be traced, ever and this is like an ice pick in the temple of tyranny.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 07:10 | 3572201 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Oi, who down arrowed that, bit harsh isn't it . . . . . oh, I get it, double post.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:23 | 3570965 blindman
blindman's picture

don't worry, be happy.
you have not been foolish, right?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:37 | 3571578 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

This fiat fraud will end when you least expect it and the last man standing will own Gold, not Google stock.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 00:18 | 3571847 MicroSecession
MicroSecession's picture

If you have physical gold for the right reasons there is no reason to worry.  If you have your heart tied to the $$ value of your portfolio, feel free to worry.  If, instead, you are looking for a multigenerational store of value, then you shouldn't worry at all.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 04:04 | 3572062 natty light
natty light's picture

You can eat with gold.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:13 | 3570939 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

The is a 100% probability that physical gold will retain value and paper fiat currencies will not.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 03:05 | 3572024 dunce
dunce's picture

PM is a great way to fund your kids college if you start preschool. The ups and downs from month to month and even year to year can be safely ignored. All 529 funds are registered and can be swapped for a govt. fiat debt instrument plus they are subject to market risk. Look what happened to people that planned on putting a kid in college in 2009 after their fund took a 40 to 50 % hit.

Sat, 05/18/2013 - 09:31 | 3572345 worldtraveler
worldtraveler's picture



Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:10 | 3570934 DutchR
DutchR's picture

It's only one element of life....

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:27 | 3570978 blindman
blindman's picture

the one that represents "money".

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:12 | 3570937 blindman
blindman's picture

if a scam was to be devised to acquire something
valuable and precious on the cheap the thing to do
would be control the price AND supply or availability.
this implies influencing the public perception of
relative value of things for a time, the time period
in which the scam is operative to relocate or
redistribute the element/s in question.
who is buying what and how have they come by the means
to buy it... and are they capable of influencing the
price at which they buy? these are some questions
one might wonder on/over and out.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:38 | 3571002 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


The gold moves from West to East. You will find the answer you seek in the East.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:09 | 3571076 blindman
blindman's picture

there is a link for that.
14 May 2013
Gold Daily and Silver Weekly Charts - South Africa Imports $1 Billion In Gold Bullion From NYC?
and his more recent posts are most fascinating, for another time?
oh hell. check em' out
"16 May 2013

SP 500 and NDX Futures Daily Charts - Back On Suffragette City

Hey man, I gotta straighten my face,
This mellow thighed chick just put my spine out of place.
Hey man, my schoolday's insane
Hey man, my work's down the drain
Hey man, well she's a total blam-blam...

Oh don't lean on me man, cause you can't afford the ticket
I'm back on Suffragette City...

Ohhh, Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am!

This mispricing of risk is going to leave a mark.

But you can't stop dancing while the music keeps playing." jca

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:17 | 3570946 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Oil for Gold, Blood for for nuthin' and tricks for free!  Long live the USSA!!!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:21 | 3570956 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Just unloaded my Registered Retirement Account for cash. Bought gold coins.  Let's see the Candian government try to "bail in" my hidden treasure


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:25 | 3570969 espirit
espirit's picture

I can foresee a boating accident in your future.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:26 | 3570976 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

we have ice fishing accidents in the great white north

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:51 | 3571036 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Hey Canada, you guys know you can't take all of the credit for having ice fishing accidents.  Here in Minnesota, we have boating accident season and ice fishing accident season.  Both are great ways to lose hard assets.  I prefer boating accident season however.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:27 | 3570979 DavyRoySixPack
DavyRoySixPack's picture

The Spinach and cake meme. Your cake eaters right now are blowing as much air into that balloon that has holes in it. Except the cake eaters says the balloon has no holes and can continue to expand ad infinitium. The spinach eaters say the balloon has holes and eventually will pop. 

As a spinach eater, let me say that the cake eaters are blowing everything they have and will try everything they can to distort reality due to their lack of Vitamin A intake. 

The cake eaters are not dishonest, they are just insane and most straw men.

Japan will falter, Charles Biderman is right about the current silly "reducing deficit meme", 

Europe is another workshop where caker eaters have been busy a little longer than in the US.

The dip in gold ... is the ghost called "the death of hegemony"

its Bitcoin .... or its Dark Ages ...

its gold ... or its Dark Ages


.... whatever it is ....


.... the Keynesians are pure sociopaths and flesh eaters ..... that eat cake flesh 




Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:07 | 3571071 knukles
knukles's picture

Ahmericah, luv it er leave it!


God damn it Madge you don't git me thet beer I'll be sendin' you back to Jelq, Alaska were I found ya.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:41 | 3571414 bilbert
bilbert's picture

Ummmm...........  Thanks for that, Zip.

I learned something new today.



Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:28 | 3570981 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Money can be made in a bull gold-market and a bear gold-market.  And pigs (dumb, greedy) get slaughtered by the predators.

Allocate & hedge accordingly.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:30 | 3570986 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

OH, I just told you Gold Bugs so!!!


10 Best Reasons to Buy Gold:

1.  It's never been worth nothing!

2.  It's really, really SHINY!

3.  Poor people in 3rd world countries just LOVE the stuff!

4.  Bullion sellers need to make a living, too!

5.  Somebody somewhere said some day, it'll hit $10,000 an ounce!!!

6.  Leprechauns and Elves will repair shoes for it!

7.  You can bend it into all kinds of shapes, and it won't get stuck in your carpet like Play-Doh!

8.  It will really keep you occupied watching all the price gyrations!

9.  It is NOT radioactive like some of the heavier elements!

10. It will really impress the chicks who work at Waffle House!

PLUS, 2 to grow on:

11. You get to go to Heaven when you die because it is very Christian to pay more for something than you can sell it for!!!

12. Unlike a pet snail, you can put your gold in a terrarium and NOT have to clean it weekly!

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:36 | 3570998 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Damn, someone beat me to the down arrow!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:45 | 3571023 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture


Well, you can just down arrow me all you want, but one day you will just grovel around on your knees and cry and moan about how you wish you had listened to me. It will be too late then, when the stuff is going for $300 an ounce or something.

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:53 | 3571041 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Cool, I dumped my IRA in December...any predictions as to when it will hit your fiat price target?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:55 | 3571046 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

I'm laughing at you, not with you.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:07 | 3571063 akak
akak's picture

Queefy Fromm, Girl Nadler

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:38 | 3571337 fuu
fuu's picture

Squeeky Fromm Civis Mundi

She reads, Sun Tzu.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:37 | 3571595 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

+10 can't stop laugh'n!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:57 | 3571051 Devotional
Devotional's picture

is this before or after you are cyprused?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:53 | 3571165 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I can only pray gold goes down to $300. I will take out a second mortgage and max out my credit cards buying it. I didn't down arrow you because I think you like it.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:22 | 3571222 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture


ZH is fight club.

We do not grovel, cry or moan.

Don't project your weak mental state into OUR fight club.

Men and Women here only. Kids go home.

Gold will never trade at $300 again. Unless we redefine the dollar.

You are the one with the delusional thought process.

Educate yourself, then maybe you can play with the big kids.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:35 | 3571589 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Hey Squeeky,

When Gold is $300oz, how much will gasoline be?? How much for the average home, and car?

Just ask'n

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:38 | 3571601 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

Wont matter because it will be lights out!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:40 | 3571008 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

13. It can't be printed by retarded bankers ie fed

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:33 | 3571577 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Stop slagg'n retards...they are way better people.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 00:46 | 3571889 theliberalliberal
theliberalliberal's picture


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:51 | 3571037 blindman
blindman's picture

@"10. It will really impress the chicks who work at Waffle House!"
that is a good one. it seems to also have a similar affect on
everyone else including kings, queens and central bankers.
that the waffle house workers recognize the
value, does that diminish the value or just sustain and support it?
this is the perennial question.
funny is funny.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:25 | 3571103 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture


Think of a very good looking hooker. . . Now at $50, most playerz will be impressed. Maybe still impressed at $300. But SMART playerz will be a whole lot less impressed at $1,500. Unless, they got more dollars than sense. That is the problem with Gold Bugs. They are pretty much price oblivious. If Gold is going up, then buy gold---"It's going up!" If Gold is going down, then buy Gold---"It's getting cheaper!" Gold Gold Gold Gold Gold.

That kind of thought process is kinda Koboldish. Gnomish. Trollish. Combine that with what I assume are limited resources for most gold bugs, and you got a bunch of financial train wrecks waiting to happen. Which is appropriate for people with "one track" minds.

Which, is why I keep mentioning this on the off chance there is a Gold Bug here or there who is capable of actual rational thought. I mean really, some of the gold bugs here are using the desire of poor people in India and China to own gold, to rationalize their own OCD beliefs. Like there are sufficient peasants in India, with the extra funds sitting around, to bail them out of gold for a profit should the SHTF.


Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:52 | 3571127 blindman
blindman's picture

let me say I love everything about your virtual
presentation. the stick figure, the manson reference,
the girl part and the reporter implication. cheers !
please do not assume I am a bug of any kind: a biological
and bacterial dependent complex of organic evolution is fine,
not a bug, we be human.
I have little interest in hookers, even young and attractive,
they be the worst. I am not making a Hollywood m ovie.
price discovery is a fiction in the fiat federal realm,
fiction like a Hollywood tramp on the boulevard, young and
sexy and cool and -- doesn't exist. just fucked and stupid,
that exists in spades.
ocd. yup, it is the stuff of genius if cosmically oriented
and grounded, with sessions or disorientation al exploration
and discovery, as long as the energy lasts.
at delusional thought process alert, welcome to the human race ,
the truth and ongoing dialogue; discovery of what was, is, and will be

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:38 | 3571128 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Your stupidity apparently knows no bounds on this topic. Poor people in India and China? LOL, who is delusional here?

How do you expect rational discourse when you aren't rational or logical yourself?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:55 | 3571166 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture


You are so wrong in so many ways it is hard to know where to start.

Gold and fiat currency are substitutes, and opposites. You can always exchange one for the other.

They both have one of the characteristics of money, they can be used for transactions. However, only one is a long term store of value and cannot be debased.

The value of gold never changes. The value of paper money, not so much.

So these price changes you allude to in gold are really just valuation changes in the value of paper.

The value of gold as measured in dollars will one day be infinite.

Get it?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:21 | 3571225 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

"The value of gold as measured in dollars will one day be infinite."

but will you be alive??  I guess you will 'pass it onto your next generation.. your estate'

that's all well and good, but we are on this planet to actually do somethings while we are here..  funny how so many here missed this play:



{tip jar for impulsive racist defense fund}



Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:35 | 3571241 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

At 56 years of age I am sure I will be alive. The event horizon approaches.

So, what is your point?

Using gold to protect my savings prevents me from making contributions to the world?

Bit coin is volatile.

Where is the worldly value in your comment?


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:00 | 3571304 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"but we are on this planet to actually do somethings while we are here.."

Like what?

Leave the world a better place than the way we found it? Stop the criminal enterprise in its tracks by saving instead of spending that (by design) is meant to be spent in the here and now?

And you know what I'm talking about DPS.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:56 | 3571445 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

you fear the TPTB so how can you do what you say?

You are going to wait under a rock and hope for that freedom you desire

Saving vs this current inflation is a fail and you know that. If you woke up to bitcoin's resilience, even if it is just a stepping stone, it is the one path right now.

Keep your gold and silver, as I do but to not use this is foolish.  You are on the interenet, I was on BBS/Fido nets way back in the early 80's and it is pretty easy to see the same opening we have here

same with 3D printing... that is going to be very creative as the years come.

There is much to DO now..  not sit on a pile of gold and cry manipulation


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:26 | 3571541 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Go see my comments on the bitcoin thread, I'm not the antagonist you're looking for...I know what it is...and I'm fine with it as long as everyone else knows what it is.

There may come a day when I need a Western Union office in every country real fast too ;-)

But, its not money.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:36 | 3574639 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

we'll agree mostly then.. I think since much of our realm is virtual now, it does bear the definition of money in these times.. and sure once 'the lights go out' then that will be a new era with new (and old) needs



Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:39 | 3571255 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture


You said: "

The value of gold never changes. The value of paper money, not so much.

So these price changes you allude to in gold are really just valuation changes in the value of paper.:

This is where you head off into Mary Baker Eddy Land. She was the person behind Christian Science. And, according to her DEATH was imaginary. Of course, Mark Twain pointed out that if there was no such thing as DEATH, perhaps her followers should go dig her up out of her grave post haste.

By saying that the value of gold never changes, you are saying that REALITY is imaginary. There is no practical intrinsic value to gold, outside of what someone else will give or trade you for it. If what they will give or trade you fluctuates, then the value changes. PERIOD.

One person may desire your gold, and give you an acre of farmland for an ounce of it. At the same exact nano-second, another person may demand 4 ounces of it for an acre, and won't take anything less. "Paper" hasn't entered into the calculation. The value is not dependent on any math or graphs or charts, but simply what the Greater Fool, or Greater Genius, is willing to give you for it.

You might as well say that Fantastic Four#1's value never changes. Hmmm, once it was worth 12 cents. Now, somebody thinks it is worth a million. There ain't been that much inflation since 1960 whatever year. 

You should examine your fundamentals. As long as there are people who think gold is valuable, then it truly will "never be worth nothing." But that fact will be of little worth to you if you buy it at $1,800 and have to dump it at $800. Unless things like paying your utility bill or buying food is neither here nor there to you, in a Mary Baker Eddy sort of way.

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:42 | 3571262 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Squeeky you have told us in the past that you rely on your family to manage your assets.

Start calling your own shots in life and then feel free to weigh in and offer advice to others.


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:55 | 3571444 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

quit feeding the trolls fonz...

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:46 | 3571272 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

PS: Here is the Mark Twain book about Mary Baker Eddy for those who have never heard of it. My father had a bunch of Mark Twain books in soft red leather, and this was one of them.

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:07 | 3571320 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture


You ignorant, misguided...... oh never mind, you probably were not born when Akroyd made the comment.

Listen, we are trying to help you.

"By saying that the value of gold never changes, you are saying that REALITY is imaginary."

Say what?  I said no such thing.  I think you are projecting.  Then you say:

There is no practical intrinsic value to gold, outside of what someone else will give or trade you for it. If what they will give or trade you fluctuates, then the value changes. PERIOD."

And paper money is different is what way?   You can burn it for heat?

Yes, gold  has a price in other goods.  But the other goods are fluctuating not gold.

IN A FREE MARKET PRICES FLUCTUATE.  The piece of gold is the same piece of gold.  It did not change.  It is a constant.   Furthermore, there is intrinsic value to gold.  It is used as jewelry.  It is used in electronics.  But MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, IN THE FREE MARKET PEOPLE HAVE USED IT AS MONEY IN EXCHANGE.

I have seen your posts in the past and obviously you have issues with people promoting gold and talking their book.    So do i.  The asset class is volatile and people can get hurt. But that does not invalidate the argument that for 5.000 years and with 6 billion people on the planet gold is accepted as money, with real value, because it cannot be printed or easily replaced.  This value may be a psychologic artifact, but so is the faith in paper money, and throughout history EVERY paper form of money has been debased and failed.

EVERY.   Get it?

So explain to me again why you post here?  What are you trying to accomplish?  What does any of this have to do with some dead Christian Scientist?






Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:17 | 3571349 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"By saying that the value of gold never changes, you are saying that REALITY is imaginary."

No, you are.

"There ain't been that much inflation since 1960 whatever year."

The REALITY is, gas was nineteen cents a gallon in the 60's. I'm fifty three, I remember, I know.

Thats reality.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 00:26 | 3571864 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Last I checked, gas is still 19 cents a gallon in my delusional pre 65 money. It's only $3.65 in Squeeky Reality Bucks.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 05:14 | 3572120 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

And like Mark Twain you appear unable to distinguish between reality and the mere mental construct you have formed of your perceived materialist 'reality' that informs all your talk of it.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:06 | 3571321 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture


Respectfully, I think you're missing that the fact that the poor are scooping up gold in record amounts - is a cultural thing, but WHY? Because it has worked in the past with a 5000 year history. When governments fell and currencies dried up, gold was still there. When you have to run away, you melt down your gold and run away with it. Same for silver. Gold goes down, you buy more. Gold goes up, you're worth more. This is a fact.

That being said, I understand (I believe) where you are coming from - that many have been screaming $3000/ounce gold and here we sit at $1300/ounce and heading south rapidly. But fluctuations occur. We are of the mind that this is an ARTIFICIAL smackdown. That being so, it will rebound significantly when the artificial aspect is removed either by time, force, or when the artificial aspect decides IT has had enough and wants to send it the other direction.

It certainly can't hurt to pick up some gold and silver, can it?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:20 | 3571356 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Squeaky, to a large extent you are right (about what has happened) and maybe or maybe not right about what will happen (in our lifetimes, which is all that counts), but you'll never convince anyone who is "all-in" emotionally to the asset.  You do provide a social service, however (and I think you know this and seem to take some delight in it), by allowing yourself to be on the receiving end of all the frustration PM aficianados are feeling now.  I cannot imagine what "non-awake" wives and families are saying to hubby all across the US right now.

I'm not necessarily for or against PMs, though I do consider them merely assets and trades (I'm also one of those weirdos who doesn't care at what price I bought, but rather where the price is right now, because the market 'don't care' where you know, like APPL holders who rode the thing down from $705, even though they bought at $20 years ago.)  I do think their time will come again (at least gold), but not right now.  What baffles me, however, is all of the hype that surrounds them, espoused by all the promoters who have sprung up and can now make a living preaching to the choir.  In particular, this "paper" price thing.  I can listen to every argument saying it's all "manipulation" and that "phyzz" is way above "paper", then I just go to a major non-US, non-retail dealer and ask the spread.  Last week, when gold was trading in the low to mid $1400s, I did this.  The quote?  $1430 bid, $1431 offer.  For physical.  Right there.  Bars in plain site.  Exactly spot at that moment, read off the screen in front of the dealer.  That Jim Willie guy was trying to convince his congregation that large scale price was $2000.  Nonsense.  Large scale price is, for all intents and purposes, spot.  I also asked who was selling size.  The answer I was given?  Chinese.  Go figure.  If that is accurate, then the Chinese elite types are fading their own masses (though Asian coin shop traffic is a ghost of what it was when prices tumbled in April vs. now).

I am left to conclude that when the promoters say "phyzz" what they are really saying is retail.  Retail includes the cost of melting ingots and minting, plus the local LCSs overhead, personal salary, and most probably includes an attempt for the LCS to recover the cost he paid before prices slumped.  Was there a shortage of coins in the US?  Sure, look at all the retail buying there has been.  It takes time to melt down those good delivery ingots, stamp out new coins and get them delivered to small LCSs and online dealers.  The same thing happened when silver tumbled from $48.  Initially there were huge premiums, and then, as new coins were stamped out, the premiums fell.

What is also baffling is that all these PM communities now exist, and most likely represent a lot of buying power.  Why they all go about buying odd lots individually, rather than forming a cooperative and buying bulk in international markets, is a puzzle.  If they cooperated, they could buy "phyzz" at the paper price, and leave that seemingly (from my experience) erroneous paper-phyzz belief behind.  Sprott's fund is essentially this type of cooperative, as an investor can cash out and take delivery.  If paper and phyzz are really so different, his fund should be trading at a huge premium.  Is it?  Go check.


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 23:41 | 3571775 Arius
Arius's picture

"rather than forming a cooperative and buying bulk in international markets"

it reminds me of the old ladies investment clubs getting together over coffee and cookies and picking stocks on the newspapers .... it got quite a lot of attention in mass media in the us

quite an idea - you might be into smt

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:09 | 3571075 knukles
knukles's picture

Damn, Sqeeeky!


Wouldju git me a beer?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:04 | 3571191 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Give it up knukles, ain't no damn woman gonna get ya a beer. Ain't ya heard, dey all done been liberated.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:20 | 3571099 blindman
blindman's picture

good post but you have not identified the 10 best
reasons, I suggest you think about it for your own

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:55 | 3571168 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I luv Squeeky.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:32 | 3570988 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

The paper gold market is dead....Long live the gold market!!!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:34 | 3570990 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

when gold was $200 @ ounce the talking heads said gold is going nowhere, when gold was $800@ ounce again the mouth pieces said gold was going nowhere! now gold is at the end of a cycle? I don't know about gold at the end of cycle but I think ben is at the end of his.


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:33 | 3570991 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Well, then there's this:

The Cashless Society Arrives in Africa. The “Multipurpose” Biometric National Identity Smart Card

It was recently announced at the World Economic Forum in Cape Town, South Africa that MasterCard and the Nigerian National Identity Management Commission (NIMC) under the government of Nigeria would form a partnership to distribute a new identity card to every Nigerian citizen.  The purpose of the card is to have all Nigerian citizens participate in the financial services sector under the control of MasterCard, a multinational financial services corporation headquartered in New York.  MasterCard’s press release ‘MasterCard to Power Nigerian Identity Card Program’ stated:

As part of the program, in its first phase, Nigerians 16 years and older, and all residents in the country for more than two years, will get the new multipurpose identity card which has 13 applications including MasterCard’s prepaid payment technology that will provide cardholders with the safety, convenience and reliability of electronic payments. This will have a significant and positive impact on the lives of these Nigerians who have not previously had access to financial services.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:37 | 3570999 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

Mark of the Beast in CC form.


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:11 | 3571080 HeavydutyMexica...
HeavydutyMexicanOfTheNorthernKingdom's picture

this is version 0.1  

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:07 | 3571072 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Figures it is from Nigeria. I get mail from there all the time.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:16 | 3571086 knukles
knukles's picture





Clerk:  That'll be $7 dollars US.  May I see your biometric card, please?
guy:     Uh huh
Clerk:  Do you have some ID?
guy:      Uh huh (Pulls out dingle dangle to match to penis size registry)
Clerk:  I'm sorry sir, but your ding dong is much smaller than indicated, we can't accept your biometric debit card
guy:     Uh huh  (yanking on it)

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:48 | 3571641 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Why come you got no tattoo?

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 18:57 | 3571053 SuitablyIronicM...
SuitablyIronicMoniker's picture

The rout in gold is also a sign that the global economy is recovering.


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:06 | 3571070 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Is "recroded" a chimera between recorded and corroded? Inquiring minds want to know.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:17 | 3571087 knukles
knukles's picture

This price action shit is just not funny anymore.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:57 | 3571298 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Knukles - you are right, but may I respectfully suggest to take a slightly different approach. Recognize that indeed it is NOT funny and is in fact CRIMINAL. But start to think like the criminals responsible for this are thinking - how can YOU benefit from this? Just LOOK at those deals in gold, silver, etc. right now.

You may have already figured this out; I'm half writing this for those who have been despairing about the fact that nothing makes sense in the markets. They are correct, but should be looking for deals that pop up no matter what is going on.

Happy stacking!

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:48 | 3571428 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Rock on VH...

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:46 | 3571145 bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

Well there's another smackdown. Tempting to BTFD now but if the CB's want it to  go lower, might as well wait?

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 19:42 | 3571236 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

then BTFBTC instead


{tip jar for impulsive racist defense fund}


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 19:59 | 3571174 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Have you noticed that people are still buying gold and nothing seems to stop them.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:00 | 3571181 WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

shoot....for awhile the gold in my teeth were worth more than i paid the dentist to put it there.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:02 | 3571187 Gromit
Gromit's picture


Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:46 | 3571423 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

what dip?  take it to 900 already.  then i'm backing up the truck...

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:05 | 3571193 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Overlooked in this graphic: Everything fundamental supporting the gold market. 

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 10:55 | 3571227 blindman
blindman's picture

yea well,
"...(As an aside, don’t you ever find it ironic that those who shout the loudest that gold is but a ‘barbarous relic’ are those who live and work atop the bullion vaults under the NY Fed or the Bank of England, for example?)"
Vol 3, 27 November 2012

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 20:54 | 3571290 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Look who was able to get out of the gold market RIGHT BEFORE the rout occured...

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:18 | 3571354 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Yeah, but he also added to his holdings of the miners.

Soros only acts with insider knowledge.  He was convicted of same in France, I am told.

I view his miner adds as a positive.  Something is brewing......

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 21:04 | 3571308 sleestak
sleestak's picture

@ Squeaky Fromm

Ironically, you miss and make the point at the same time.  It is because people like yourself, who think well enough, but not all the way through, that the central banks have been able to use the fiat value of gold (the one you care about) to fund bank systems, wars, etc. by leasing it to bullion banks, who sell it and use the fiat for the purpose of the day.  Because it's vague and confusing to people like yourself, they've done this ad nauseam to the point where it's leased and pledged many times over.

People who do value it have been calling this scheme out recently, and it's not poor Asians, but (did you forget?) the Bundesbank and the Bank of China.  Now when bullion bank X gets the margin call, guess what, the guy they sold it to doesn't have it, nor does his customer, nor his, and so on. 

And so a short squeeze is on.  Can't very well have that if we're trying with all our might elsewhere to protect an insolvent banking system, now, can we?  So let's take a market (Comex) in which we don't need to deliver any actual metal, which just so happens to be one where we can operate with massive leverage (for impact) and trash it, see if we can shake people like Squeaky Fromm into selling on the weakness, cover up some.  Likely, if you had owned any, you would, and so their scheme is entirely sensible.

But if you thought about it more than your very thin analysis betrays, you wouldn't sell, but recognize that gold is the only collateral that cannot be manufactured at will (but in fact with great difficulty) and might recognize that this theater actually advertises it's value.  And you'd hang on, perhaps add in the newfound understanding that central banks, and in fact the whole banking system, relies heavily on this collateral (tier 1 asset, Squeaks, look it up).

Just guessing from your glib online persona that you wouldn't get that far.  You gave up at "it's going down in fiat price," just like a good sheep.

Good for you.

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 22:48 | 3571643 NOTfromSanFrancisco
NOTfromSanFrancisco's picture




Honest officer... I wasn't anywhere near the airport when this happened!... And yes, the tail end of my car has always drug along the ground like that... Why do you ask?...

Thu, 05/16/2013 - 23:24 | 3571745 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Heavy gold bullion in the cargo hold?  Can you imagine the pre-flight announcement on that flight?


"Folks, I'm gonna need some of you to change seats for weight and balance purposes.  If you are seated in rows 7 thru 31, please move forward to the front of the plane.  And in the event of a boating accident...err, I mean water landing, your seat cushions will serve as a floatation device."


Fri, 05/17/2013 - 00:17 | 3571845 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

For those open minded folks who are tired of hearing 'gold to the moon.....someday' and would like a different perspective than you will get from every other gold writer on the planet....try fofoa.

Last December fofoa observed that it appeared that various central banks were withdrawing support for the paper gold market. (I know...heresey here at ZH to consider that the paper gold market had been supported rather than 'taken down') anyway...

This came after a observation in late 2010 that 2013 might be the year that this was allowed to he is not jumping on the bandwagon trying to explain why it (falling gold price during hyperinflationary money printing) is happening.

This information gave me confidence to buy gold (the metal) AND hedge it with DGLD (a tripple ultra inverse ETF.) Needless to say I'm doing well as my physical sits safe in a safe and the DGLD generate plenty of profit.

His view is that the paper markets will collapse ...soon...and a physical only market willl eventually emerge...with a price of about $55,000 per ounce (current purchasing power dollars, not hyperinflated dollars)

If none of what is happening makes sense to you (gold is down again today and GLD inventories are down 300+ tons since January.) and you would like to understand why everyone at his site (OK almost everyone) is tickled pink...visit his site. He has just published his 400th article (so 'catch-up" will be a bitch). There are a couple of contributors who have done condensed versions and reading guides. The time of the great reckoning is near (scary music).

If you are lazy and don't want to read thousand of pages of 'wooly' essays here is the punch line: hold physical gold because a reset/transition is coming. We will not see a 'bull market in gold prices). Do not be worried about a drop in the price because this is just the last gasp of a dying paper market. DO be worried that the market could croak tomorrow and all that $1300/ounce gold may be withdrawn from physical sale. All that will be left then are folks who own paper getting settled out in paper and lots of sad people who 'were gunna' buy physical gold soon.

PS: lots of people don't like fofoa because he does NOT see silver taking part in the reset and does not see miners doing well either. He has good reason but those are the complaints you'll hear here (Akak doesn't like the length of the articles either)

I'm getting tired of preaching his gosple but I really do want to see good libertarians doing well in the 'new world'. I am planning on seeing this tranition in the next month (not saying it will happen then just making plans for it by then). That is not a promise that the bank holiday won't come this weekend either.

and no....I am not fofoa

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 01:01 | 3571905 theliberalliberal
theliberalliberal's picture

Needless to say I'm doing well as my physical sits safe in a safe 


Take the advice of Ron Swanson.  "That's decoy gold.  Do you think I would keep my gold in a locked safe underground where anybody can find it?"


Sealed plastic pipe - lead flashing wrap - concrete

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 01:50 | 3571968 akak
akak's picture

LasVegasPersona, that was a very good post, and while I remain agnostic to somewhat skeptical of the whole Freegold theory, I am keeping my mind open on the subject, while trying to constantly question most if not all of my former assumptions.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 00:47 | 3571892 theliberalliberal
theliberalliberal's picture

infographic huh?


is see the graphics.

where's the info?

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 02:00 | 3571966 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

A partial list of enemies of the Fed and their Globalist Feudal Elite masters:

Money: Gold (for gold-backed currency), Bitcoin/Crypto-currencies.

Religions: Islam.

Regimes and countries: Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Russia, China.

Ideologies: Anarchism, Libertarianism, Original (pre-Nicean) Christianity.

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 06:18 | 3572159 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

Yep, the economy is going gangbusters!!!!!!




Is it recovery summer 3 or recovery summer 4 now????????

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 08:53 | 3572404 Chappy
Chappy's picture

I am a gold bug for sure.  Although, I do struggle a little with the reasoning for gold's value.  Yes, it has been money for 5,000 years and it is rare.  But aside form that, it's value is based on faith.  I can't eat it or power my car with it.  It does have industrial applications in electonics and heat transfer but those are small.  It's shiny, pretty and doesn't corrode but I can say the same thing about Wham CD's. 

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 14:54 | 3573729 Tursas
Tursas's picture

They are now playing the paper gold game - the last real ounce went to China, the rest of it is still in ground.  At JPM, left and right hands are busy trading paper gold at downward spiraling prices on the way to $450/oz as "per my instructions".  Then "my hands, if anyone pays cash on the way down take it as long as we are still above $450.  Don't worry of anything, our paper derivatives portfolio is largest on the planet and with that we can bust anyone out there, including the USA  - and they all know it!"    

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 09:03 | 3572405 Chappy
Chappy's picture

double post, sorry

Fri, 05/17/2013 - 16:58 | 3574277 jmk
jmk's picture

Before the deflationary cycle ends gold will break below $500/oz.  After that comes the hyperinflation which will take it to God knows where!  At that point the government may attempt confiscation but more likely will implement confiscatory tax rates on the gain.


You may believe you will be able to negotiate your gold in complete secrecy and avoid paying any income taxes.  All I can say is "good luck with that strategy".


Having said all this I will say that if you don't have at least 20% of your investable assets in metal today you are most likely fucked.


What's coming will take your breath away and most likely your investments and even your life if you aren't careful.  At the trough of the collapse the only asset classes that will have any value will be precious metals and producing farmland.


All this naive blather about boating accidents is childish.  During the worst of the crisis the government's intrusion into one's private affairs will be both intolerable and frightening.  Better that you have a practical and viable plan to deal with that issue and forget your cute boating accidents.  That's the real challenge!


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!