• Sprott Money
    05/06/2016 - 06:03
    The US, in its own decline, is showing this same self-destructive tendency. The worse things get, the greater the inclination of the citizenry to say, “Carry on, everything’s fine.”

Silver Plunges As Yen Stop Surge Triggers Margin Liquidation

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Not a moment after someone was slammed with a massive margin call following the hit of 102 USDJPY stops as we noted moments ago, was that same someone(s) forced to dump a whole lot of silver in thin, no volume trading taking out the entire bid stack on what can only be described as "get me the hell out and pay me anything" liquidation, sending the precious metal to just over $20, before yet another round of buying programs kicked in, and sent it right back up, allowing those quick enough to capitalize on some foolish macro trader's blowing up to pocket a huge profit before Japan has even woken up.

Thank you Kuroda, Bernanke and co for this total farce of a "market."

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Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:19 | 3578404 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Just put the freaking margins at 100% already.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:26 | 3578430 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

How bout 110%? You know, like negative interest rates(NIRP)

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:34 | 3578449 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Water water everywhere yet nary a drop to drink...

(Nor an ounce of physical to buy for that matter... Christ... 10 week delivery waits make me a nervous critter... )

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:38 | 3578474 indianajohns04
indianajohns04's picture

http://www.silvertowne.com/........it doesn't take that long?

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:52 | 3578512 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Maples at $29?... Pandas at $30.50?...

Thanks... but I think I'll just drop some more zantax and wait...

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:53 | 3578518 Spider
Spider's picture

If you're going to be scared out of your silver position b/c a hedge fund Yen liquidation - you shouldnt be in the metal. 

Costs of silver are more than $23-24 per ounce for miners all-in - this is setting us up for a supply crunch

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1303691-the-true-cost-to-mine-silver-complete-2012-figures

 

As for me, i'll be buying more physical - I dont care if it goes unde $20

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:55 | 3578532 The Phu
The Phu's picture

Thanks to this ZH post, I decided to BTFD and just bought eleven 10-ounces bars with about $1.89/oz prem.  I'm happy.  Thanks Uncle Ben!!!!

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:00 | 3578558 Meremortal
Meremortal's picture

That's the secret, congratulations. Take what you are given. There's always a way to make money.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:30 | 3578653 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

so a few months ago when you bought at $1.89 prem but much higher price that was a great buy too?

 

I think stackers only care about what the premium is and are blind to price swings...  do any of you ever sell??

 

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:07 | 3578763 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Riiiight!

And I sold all mine at $49/oz!

/sarc

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 22:06 | 3579127 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

I traded for Pt at < 40:1 (1815/46).  Pt has gone down 375 benny bucks per oz since then but somehow it doesn't bother me so much since 3 oz of Pt is now "worth" 200 oz of Ag. But of course that's just on paper which means NOTHING.  LCS "may" trade me at 60:1 when the paper ratio is 70.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 11:13 | 3580301 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I did sell half my stack at $47 and some of my gold at $1800 back then..  i have bought in a bit on the downward slide but those will go to the hold stacks and i wait for the next upswing to sell the other stuff

 

rotating your stacks for trading increases your stacks..  just buying blindly is kinda dumb

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:06 | 3578766 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

good to hear - I still keep buying and selling PM's but hardly ever hear anyone on this site say they sell

it is easier now when making money on bitcoins and then using them to buy since there is no credit card markup on certain sites that take btc for pms

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:10 | 3578791 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

"hardly ever hear anyone on this site say they sell"

There's a reason for that.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:21 | 3578833 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

MMMMMM  Bitcoins  looking very  strong and stable today

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:27 | 3578859 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Must be some "hot money" gettin ready to rush through the pipe ;-)

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 11:18 | 3580319 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

yes there is..  the reason is that most of you 'stackers' are just shills for your online PM stores..  that is why you just keep saying buy buy buy

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:23 | 3578843 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Heh heh...  What about those poor suckers that bought bitcoin over $250 and then watched it fall in half overnight?  

But hey, they avoided credit card charges to buy their silver. Woo hoo!  Sounds like a plan.

 

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:26 | 3578855 Nitrocharged
Nitrocharged's picture

cruel but true....

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:35 | 3578880 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

HE HEH  what about those poor suckers who bought Silver over $45 then watched it fall to over half .

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:41 | 3578900 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Something tells me there may be a sheik or 2 that bought near 50.35 and have been waiting 30+ years for it to go (much) higher.  Generational wealth still means something in certain parts of the world.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 21:33 | 3579032 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

It's not over yet.

Besides, silver has fallen more.  It nearly hit $50.  And it is now trading below $22.

I am just saying.  I bought some of my silver near that top.  But I am not that concerned.  I don't plan to sell any of them for some time.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 00:08 | 3579367 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Same. I also bought some at the high and I too am not concerned. I'm presently debating at which price to buy more... it dips daily so I'm trying to get the best price i can to offset some of that high price I paid.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 01:40 | 3579465 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

And in our advanced society and modern finance with the greatest PhDs running the show (sarc), I wonder why so many people don't understand that things traded, a market, are still subject to the same phenomenon as in the past. Greed/fear, etc is still there whether it is silver, tulips, stocks or bitcoins.

Yes, I hold some PMs. But only a portion of my assets I don't want to marry stocks, PMs, bonds or any other such instrument. I can't fuck them. But they sure can fuck me.

And that is probably the worst post I've ever made. As I've said in the past. I think PMs will rise relative to other markets. PMs have been in decline. So in my view point, we are headed for massive declines in other markets to make that comparison. Do not forget, that PMs, in fact most markets declined in a deflationary environment. What money is there or created was used to service debt. And we have worldwide debt that exceeds all the printing. That lefaves very little money for demand to buy. But all in due time. I'm glad I have my PMs. I'm also glad I don't have a ton of it.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 11:15 | 3580308 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

not a whole lot of transactions during that peak right?? how many people bought silver over $40?

 

you guys did right? you buy all the time 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:36 | 3578884 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Why sell Au with the GSR this high?  Trade for Ag while it's still available.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 22:25 | 3579175 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Nope!

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 08:10 | 3579707 Hayabusa
Hayabusa's picture

Look, I've been buying PMs for years... when I first started purchasing them I didn't understand how easily prices could be manipulated via

changing margin rates, dumping "paper physical", etc.  I've come to the conclusion we've all been suckers in this bet and the only ones making

money are those who buy/sell PMs and take their share (no matter what happens to spot) via spot plus premiums.  Go ahead and keep buying

PMs and giving the dealers their premiums (it's a lot like Vegas, the house always gets it's share/cut) but realize the deck is stacked against

you and the rules change constantly to the benefit of the "rule makers" (margin rates, dumping paper, etc.).  When some of you accuse me

of "being scared out of PMs" I say, "Nope, not scared, just getting smarter at spotting whose making money and who isn't as the price continues

on it's downward trend."  Hey I like Zerohedge, but their advice seems to ALWAYS be "buy, buy buy... no matter what happens in the market"...

uh just who are their primary sponsors again?

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 18:58 | 3578548 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

It's literally INSANE that the actions of a single firm can drop any commodity 7% in minutes. Silver is their  BITCH, and I hope they choke to death on the shiny metal. GSR now 64, even as silver stocks above and below ground are depleting. I buy and sell it for a living, and I work on good margins, but for three of the last 5 weeks they've eaten up most of my margins with their shenanigans. I will patiently add to my stacks, all the way down to $0.00. But beam me the f**k up, this is ridiculous.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:18 | 3578602 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Don't forget that Hong Kong just defaulted on every contract this weekend.  They have a good reason to push prices down going into a 100% paper settlement.

http://silverdoctors.com/hkmex-to-cease-trading-will-close-out-cash-settle-open-contracts-monday/#more-26786

And despite what they claim, I am pretty sure you don;t go all cash settlement unless you have a serious problem beyond low trading volume.  They act as if they plan to stay open.  So they have some other issue, like they let the fox in the hen house.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:30 | 3578654 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Well, they want to cash settle, but then want everyone to still consider it a commodity exchange afterwards, not just a casiono.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 21:54 | 3579082 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

It seems that if you pay for something, wanting delivery, that doesn't get delivered, you should get all your money back.  Deliver or give my fucking money back.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 23:46 | 3579336 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"got a great 500 sq foot apartment for ya if your interested. Use to sell for...6.5 million US...but for you i'll give a great deal at...2.3."

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:15 | 3578605 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

It just gets better and better.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:11 | 3578596 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Bullshit!  MathMan tells me silver only costs $5/toz to produce.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:18 | 3578821 akak
akak's picture

More precisely, it only costs $5 to dig from the ground.

Oh, and don't forget, the shit is everywhere!

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:53 | 3578936 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

akak said:

Oh, and don't forget, the shit is everywhere!

No kidding. Around here, every morning after an overnight rain, mercury dimes sprout from the buffalo droppings.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:39 | 3578893 kindape
kindape's picture

$5? source?

Its not $23-24 as claimed above. Marginal cash costs are $17-18 but average costs are lower. $5 methinks might be a decade old figure ?? (in any case its also a flow story - even if it did cost $5 to extract, you could only get XX million ounces per year and demand might be XXX)

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 21:12 | 3578982 Blano
Blano's picture

The "source" above was a former troll, I doubt anyone took it too seriously.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 02:22 | 3579503 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Ahh since nearly all Silver is a bonus of mining other ores then think on this, as the demand for other metals declines with a fall in economic output then there will be a natural reduction in Silver production. The biggest cost of mining is energy, look at the price of Brent; complete divergence with PM's to the upside, these miners must be hurting. How long before these Silver ores are just parked to one side waiting for an upturn in price.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:15 | 3578813 Alexandre Stavisky
Alexandre Stavisky's picture

Son of the morning star must've irritated Sitting Bull (missing a consonant) badly.  Where's Reno?

Looks like long yellow hair will be sitting on someone's lodgepole to prominent display.

Once more into the breach for "ours is not to reason why".  This wonderfully trained soundmoney cavalry in polish stubborn pride ride against the fiat Panzers.

Outcome?  From Li'l Big Man, it was a good day to die.  How to counter the conjurers, extortionists, conspirators, and racketeers? Hold the line, give no attention.  Mind the parapet.

Or more like Uriah, man to Bathsheba, pushed forward to the tip of the spear, not noticing his vanguard in quiet withdrawal.  It plays to the King's whimsy.  They own all that hold the power and the purse, they think.  We, tiny yeomen, look down and see we hold the boot for a mounting rider. We, cabbage and garlic eaters, hold the shoulder to steady the nobles eliminating their lobster and mignon fare.  We 99% look down to both hands and see we hold excrement of the 1%.  Vanity, pride, and presumption are their heralds, ours? Bruise, crush, calumny.  But forever topsy-turvy.

Accustomed are we to hell of their making.  Bide our time.  Bide our time.  A hard rain is coming.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 23:45 | 3579333 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

There is some kind of genius to your writing. Praying for rain here.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 20:57 | 3578950 The Phu
The Phu's picture

Thanks to this ZH post, I decided to BTFD and just bought eleven 10-ounces bars with about $1.89/oz prem.  I'm happy.  Thanks Uncle Ben!!!!

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:06 | 3578575 XitSam
XitSam's picture

APMEX (that many here hate) has maples right now for $26.01 USD in quantity 1.

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:15 | 3578600 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Provident has them for only $25.15

http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/silver/foreign-slv/can-slv-maple/canadian-silver-maple-leafs.html

 And they have US Mint AtB 5-ounce bullion for only $2.99/ounce over spot (for the monster box)

http://www.providentmetals.com/2013-atb-white-mountain-5-oz-silver.html

 

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:33 | 3578668 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Amagi Metals have 1oz in the $23's and whoa.. you can even use bitcoins 

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 11:17 | 3580312 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I believe my post proves the obvious assumption that most 'stackers' here are really just people who pump their PM store..  if ZH lets tons of 'article writers' who just pump the market of course the commentors are also doing the same

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:28 | 3578648 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

$24.75 at Kitco...

https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html

But you is going to have to be patient...

Sun, 05/19/2013 - 19:44 | 3578700 kindape
kindape's picture

you can buy all the silver you want at Tulving, so pls stop with the 'physical is unavailable' rationalization.

yes premiums have firmed up, but they have been buyers at $2.50 over and sellers (of 2011-2013 Eagles) at $3.50 over for 2 months now. you want physical, in size - can buy at tulving right now..

http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html

(scroll down to silver)

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 08:59 | 3579809 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Unfortunately, not all of us can afford to buy a monster box at a time.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!