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Apple Meets The "Fairness Doctrine", Is Set To Pay A Whole Lot More In Taxes

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Last September, when we exposed the heretofore unknown entity actively managing Apple's $100 billion+ in offshore held cash (and thus untaxed in the US), we made the following "bold" prediction: "with the topic of finding effective tax loopholes which are perfectly legal, yet which apparently are unfair, serving as the basis of the entire presidential race to date, what Apple can be absolutely certain of is that once the farce culminating on November 6 is over, the government's eye will finally turn to minimizing "externalities" among such companies which have been able to pass through corporate tax savings to end consumers by abiding within the legal system that countless other muppet congressmen, senators and presidents have developed over the ages. Because while AAPL may have built the iPhone, very soon it will be only fair that it share its profits acquired over the years, and thus its cash balance...with the general public." Or in other words, in September we predicted the Apple "tax witchhunt" would take place shortly after Obama won his reelection. Today, it has officially begun.

For those confused, Congress has just announced it is shocked, SHOCKED to learn it has over the past several decades passed legislation making tax shelter loopholes - such as those used by AAPL, GOOG and every other multinational company - perfectly legal, and which will now be turned against those very companies in a kangaroo court of law, seeking nothing more or less than to extract all those pounds of flesh that the government so generously let slip between its fingers for so many years. Which is expected: when the entire world is broke, the government has no choice but to call in every favor accumulated over the years, because all is fair in, well, the fairness doctrine and in a world about to unleash global trade, and tax, war.

Of course, we have covered the background of this topic extensively in the past knowing quite well what direction the wealth redistributor-in-chief was heading. From Apple And Taxes:

As we have shown in the past, perhaps the one thing Tim Cook's company has loathed more than anything in the past, is to pay taxes, which is why it has some of the most convoluted legal tax shelters imaginable. Indeed, in the current quarter, according to the company's cash flow statement, a tiny $2.4 billion was paid in cash taxes. Putting this number in perspective, the company had an operating profit of $12.4 billion.

 

 

Or, cumulatively, since December 2008, AAPL has generated a grand total of $149 billion in operating profit, while paying just $21 billion in total taxes.

 

Which brings us to today. From Bloomberg:

Apple Inc. (AAPL) has created a web of offshore entities to avoid paying billions of dollars in U.S. taxes, including three foreign subsidiaries the company says have no home country for tax purposes, congressional investigators say.

 

The world’s most valuable technology company has $102 billion in offshore accounts and shifted billions in profits out of the U.S. into affiliates based in Ireland where it negotiated a tax rate of less than 2 percent, according to a report by the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

 

The offshore entities of the Cupertino, California-based company have paid little or no tax in recent years, the probe found.

 

One Apple affiliate -- Apple Operations International -- generated net income of $30 billion between 2009 and 2012, and declined to declare a tax residence, filed no corporate tax return and payed no income taxes to any nation, the report said. AOI is Apple’s principal offshore holding company.

 

“Apple wasn’t satisfied with shifting its profits to a low-tax offshore tax haven,” Democratic Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the chairman of the panel, said at a news conference. “Apple sought the Holy Grail of tax avoidance. It has created offshore entities holding tens of billions of dollars, while claiming to be tax resident nowhere.

Of course, in AAPL's defense, what it has done is not illegal at all, and is in perfect compliance with both US and international laws. But that would mean Congress would have to read the laws it has passed over the ages: something which everyone knows never happens. One also knows that Congress is unparalleled when it comes to the hypocrisy of accusing others for following the rules it itself has enacted.

In prepared testimony to Congress posted on its website today, Apple defended its practices, saying it paid $6 billion in U.S. taxes last year and is one of the largest taxpayers in the country.

 

Apple’s cash is largely held in U.S. banks in U.S. dollar-denominated assets, segregated into a portion that can be used for domestic operations and a portion that can be used only for international investments, the company said. The company doesn’t use foreign subsidiaries or gimmicks to avoid U.S. taxes, said the testimony.

 

The company also said the Irish subsidiaries, which are cost-sharing arrangements, have helped to fund Apple’s research and development activities and taken on risks, leading to bigger profits and higher-paying jobs in the U.S.

None of this matters, however, in the abovementioned kangaroo court, in which...

Lawmakers in both parties are seeking a bipartisan agreement on how to tax income that U.S.-based corporations earn outside the country. Democrats and Republicans on the panel say Apple’s tax maneuverings, while not illegal, will help frame the debate about how to make the corporate tax system more fair.

 

Senator John McCain of Arizona, the panel’s top Republican, said he and Levin are seeking to craft a bipartisan proposal that would end some of the tax benefits, although the timing of an agreement isn’t clear. He said both parties in Congress should seek to address the matter, even if it isn’t in the context of a broad rewrite of the tax code.

 

“When you see egregious behavior like this, why wait?” McCain said.

And there it is again: "all in the name of fairness."

What is left unsaid is that Apple is merely the first Guniea pig in what is sure to be a long trail of wealth "redistribution" of evil companies (to benefit the Federal and State governments) who have used every legal loophole affored to them by the US tax code, in order to pad the government's soaring spending habits, and to assist in making it even bigger.

Sadly, for AAPL, and for many others like it, this means that the excess profits they generate are now known, in financial parliance, as "negative externalities" and Fair Uncle Sam is coming for his fair share.

Sadder for AAPL, and all those like it, it means that the company is now truly a utility in the eyes of the government, and one can stick a fork in any hopes that the growth company created by Steve Jobs ever has a chance of coming back.

 

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Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:31 | 3582425 Spider
Spider's picture

Good tax those companies - large MNC's screw us anyhow.  Small businesses cant compete with their tax maneuvering so lets level that playing field

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:41 | 3582458 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It will take a lot more then taxes (which will be passed on to you) to compete. The mega corps own the regulatory regime as well. If they can't buy you, or out compete you they will regulate you out of business.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:11 | 3582557 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

just came back from the aapl board meeting

item one: buy tons more lobbyists

item two: give more aaplstockoptions to lawmakers and regulators

item three: move hq overseas, let cupertino revert to its mean: fruit orchards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupertino#History

 

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:40 | 3582644 espirit
espirit's picture

I'd think that if someone was trying to take a billion or three from me, they'd be suicided for a whole lot less.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 22:58 | 3582887 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

.......Annnnnd it's gone.......  "We're going to need an additional five percent".

Add infinitum.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:55 | 3583148 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

No to worry, Apple is just to raise tax price on iPhone. Or maybe is make new service, call "iTax" (as in take an iTax in the iHole).

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:57 | 3583156 prains
prains's picture

race to the bottom to commence in 4,3,2

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 04:22 | 3583233 wisefool
wisefool's picture

fruit orchards, whose profitable market was created by the population boom in southern california, which was only possible with the water, electricity, and "defense" industry jobs that the hoover dam provided.

When the factories and off shore profits are nationalized overseas, dig up old smedley butler, and at least be honest about it. Nobody, even 5 year olds, believes the Krugman/Keynes shtick anymore.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:43 | 3582463 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

Agreed.  Sorry, but I am unable to shed tears over multinational corporations being forced to pay taxes at something close to the mandated tax rate.  You and I pay close to the mandated tax rate.  If the huge multinational corporations don't pay close to the mandated tax rate, then the government will either borrow the money or tax the rest of us at a higher rate to make up the difference.  Screw the multinationals.    

 

       

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 22:22 | 3582781 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

So, you want the jackboot of the state to stomp equally hard on everybody's neck?

I don't want there to be a jackboot.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 23:59 | 3583014 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

What a naive comment. The "foot" in the "jackboot of the state" are the multinational corporations and their owners. Apple can avoid the"jackboot of the state" because it and the other multinationals wrote our laws. Laws that apply to you and me, which are enforced by the jackboot, do not apply to Apple.

Some people on ZH seem to believe that our government is inherently evil, and hate it, but they worship the wealthy interests that control that government. This makes as much sense as hating the puppet, but loving the hand that makes it move.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 02:04 | 3583163 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

The monied elite (e.g. corporations) do not have complete control over the state. There is still a political aristocracy with considerable clout. This political aristocracy cannot servive without looting the coffers of the corporations especially in the state's currently overindebted condition.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 09:56 | 3583725 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

The next corporation that has its coffers looted will be the first. Shit, at least Apple is paying something, instead of getting money from the IRS like GE.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 02:14 | 3583169 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

Excellent comment. 

Thank you. 

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 05:21 | 3583200 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Hey meatpuppet-

"huge multinational corporations don't pay close to the mandated tax rate" - they shouldn't-- they're MULTI national, that means they are subject to taxes in MULTIPLE jurisdictions.  It's retards like you who merrily bounce through life with the long arm of the law up your ass that are going to bring the American experiment to an unhappy close.

These companies took a system that was put in place for a legitimate reason, then these companies illegitimately bought local politicians create to "apparently" small loopholes which they could (with an army of lawyers and accountants) run massive revenue streams through (that had nothing to do with the jurisdiction used).  BUT THE ISSUE OF THE NOMINAL RATE PAID BY A MULTINATIONAL TO THE US GOVERNMENT, AND THE PUBLISHED TAX RATES IN THE US, ARE DIFFERENT ISSUES.  

Furthermore- multinationals SHOULD pay less in US TAXES than domestic firms - the US represents only a portion of their total tax bill.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 10:07 | 3583770 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

If you read the article concerning Apple, you will see Apple claims that it does not have to pay taxes in some instances because it is stateless.

You believe Apple should not have to pay US taxes when it pays taxes to another government for the same event or transaction. However, the article states that Apple does not pay taxes to any government. This is a vastly different situation from the one you are defending.

Furthermore, the fact that these so called "loopholes" exist in the first place and are never closed when "discovered" only proves my point that these corporations control our elected officials. Our laws are written to increase the wealth and power of those who already have huge amounts of wealth and power, and to keep the jackboot on everyone else's throats.

Wed, 05/22/2013 - 07:51 | 3587056 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

 

You stated "Screw the multinationals." (You didn't even mention, much less single out Apple- ergo.. BS).

Furthermore, the IRS taxing an Irish company is entirely relevant to what I was pointing out.  If there is a loophole that allows an Irish-domiciled company to avoid even filing a tax return - that is an issue for the Irish authorities to fix, not for US authorities to get involved in.  The natural person corollary would be an American citizen being directly taxed by the Chinese government to cover any perceived losses on their UST holdings.  Moving from the moral to the legal- a corporation cannot be stateless, it must be incorporated under the laws of a specific territorial jurisdiction- if it wants the privileges and immunities of corporate citizenism, if Apple is claiming otherwise, then the smart thing for Irish authorities to do would simply seize ALL the assets of Apple Operations International, but I suspect that the case isn't exactly as presented by Bloomturd's troglodyte untermenschen since the nuances of these structures is way above their pay grade

State, DoD, and Treasury are the unholy triumvirate of power in DC, and US history is littered with their testaments to the Law of Unintended Consequences- not that there aren't people behind the curtain who understand precisely what the consequences actually will be, but their motivation has nothing to do with justice, increased tax revenue or even liberté, égalité, fraternité... 

 

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 00:54 | 3583083 Seeking Aphids
Seeking Aphids's picture

@TimmyB....totally agree....why is it 'sad' when a multinational has to pay the same taxes as the rest of us? It is no wonder the govt can't pay its way with so many mns not paying any tax or very little....if you don't want these guys to pay taxes then why should anyone pay??

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 04:51 | 3583253 StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

Why indeed?

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:01 | 3582524 notadouche
notadouche's picture

Do you think all of those large MNC's were born large MNC's?  Somehow they managed to start as a small business, some of the one's you refer to right out of a garage yet they managed to grow into a large MNC because of talent, creativity and producing a product people wanted to buy.  Do that and you will compete regardless of tax structures.    I have yet to be screwed by a large MNC.  

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 00:00 | 3583016 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

If you haven't been screwed by a MNC yet, then you must live in a cave.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 07:50 | 3583386 notadouche
notadouche's picture

No it actually has more to do with perspective and understanding what's important to my personal life and what is not and an MNC such as Apple has done nothing to harm me.  Now if we were talking insurance and pharma then I would have a different perspective. I see commercials about the "New New York" and it's "tax friendly" environment in order to lure businesses back.  Gee I wonder why that is?  Could it be that they need the tax revenue that is generated by workers that are employed by the business they wish to lure back to New York?  Yeah let's get those evil MNC's that actually drive economies and provide the best jobs and benefits, at least in the world we live in now.  Sounds like a real fine plan and should lead to astounding growth the economy so desperately needs, not.   In reality it sounds like a government that has dug itself a hole in buying votes and now the check has come due and now they look for one off monetary windfalls that is short sighted in nature.   If the government didn't mean for the tax laws to exist in it's current form then they shouldn't have written the legislation that way.  I would blame the government not the "evil MNC's".  The government and it's legislature's have gotten exactly what they wanted and are now looking to point the finger at the outcome they created instead of actually looking in the mirror fo the blame.  

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 10:22 | 3583843 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

Errrrr, multinationals include insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. So yeah, you have been screwed by big multinationals.

Moving to your other points, our tax laws were written for and by the large multinationals so they can escape paying taxes. They are the ones who have gotten exactly what they wanted. If the big bad government were an independent actor as many here mistakenly believe, the government would not put in place laws allowing Apple and many others pay little in taxes. Instead, the government would suck these corporations and the wealthy dry to fund itself, instead of borrowing money year after year.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 07:15 | 3583341 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You socialist! Report to upper management right NOW, you level playing field egalitarian scumbag.

On a related news: oh shit, they're going after billionaire companies... oh well, if poor Tim Cook ever needs counseling, he can always depend on the unwashed crowd, for expertise on how to cope with the grievance.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:34 | 3582436 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Furiously digging through past votes by Levin & McCain concerning corporate taxation...I mean, they've been there for at least century between them ;-)

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:34 | 3582437 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

would this change eventually seep through and affect these companies dividend payouts?

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:35 | 3582439 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

Obama didn't know

Holder didn't know

The IRS didn't know

Congress didn't know

 

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:44 | 3582465 jon dough
jon dough's picture

I should know

 

Dirty Vegas

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2CxoS7iBkc

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:38 | 3582450 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

How will this impact the iPhone 6 and iWatch release?

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:38 | 3582451 Whatta
Whatta's picture

Levin is a total douchehat.

I'll translate what he said: "We want to assrape AAPL and get our "fair share" outta them." Yeah...lets go all populist and make it sound like they pay no taxes. At the same time Uncle Warren does the ol sidestep every time he can.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:40 | 3582456 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

whenever I hear levin speak all I hear is "GET OFF MY LAWN".

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:46 | 3582469 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"The word bi-partisan means some larger-than -usual deception is being carried out. "

~George Carlin~

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:55 | 3582501 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"You could throw darts at this market, and unless it hits Agnico Eagle, Barrick or Newmont, you're doing well," he said. "When you see the airline stocks move, when you see the mortgage insurers move, wealth is being created. It's just not trickling down fast enough."

Jim Cramer

it's so ridiculous that we are doing this all over again.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:10 | 3583406 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

When the Soviet Union fell, P. J. O'Rourke went to Moscow to give a talk on the American political system. He explained that in America, there are two parties: The Stupid party and the Evil party. He explained that he was a member of the Stupid party. He then went on to explain that, in the spirit of bipartisanship, now and again the parties would get together and pass legislation that was truly stupid and evil.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:50 | 3582482 Colonel
Colonel's picture

Short!

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:53 | 3582493 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Steve Job's boad is ugly as sin, but in a pinch you could headquarter Apple in international waters.  I guess they'll be relocating soon.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=steve+job%27s+boat&qpvt=steve+job%27...

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:55 | 3582502 seek
seek's picture

Ugh. “When you see egregious behavior like this, why wait?” McCain said.

Something that's perfectly legal is pretty hard to tag egregious, don't you think?

I really hope that statist RINO exits the political theater sooner rather than later. In his mind he's a stateman, in reality he's a two-bit grifter.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:10 | 3582553 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Ask Carol McCain what she thinks about the slimy little toad.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:44 | 3582658 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Yes McCain and Levin. Two of my favorite nation wreckers. Always working hard like the good little termites they are.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 05:31 | 3583266 Acet
Acet's picture

While I agree that he's a two-bit gifter, I have to disagree on the "prefectly legal" makes it right part of it.

What's in Law and what's (morally and ethically) Right are two very different things, specially in the corrupt, rotten system we've had for the last 3 decades.

 

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:57 | 3582511 alphamentalist
alphamentalist's picture

This is bad for price. If they get pulled through a tax knothole on their untaxed cash, net of the recent bond-funded payout--what is left? Not very much but their collapsing margins and failing pipeline. If you are long pretend your name is Mortimer. You know what I mean.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 20:59 | 3582518 max2205
max2205's picture

Good.   GE you are next. Then ExxonMobil

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:09 | 3582547 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

 

 

Argentina faces IMF penalties over failure to meet inflation deadline Sanctions such as exclusion from G20 could be imposed as country's inflation rate appears at odds with independent assessments

The Guardian, Sunday 16 December 2012 13.10 EST 

Thank goodness the IMF is expanding efforts to reduce Global Poverty. Yes, this was last year. Ask yourself, how much compounded interest points did it take to borrow more money & pay back the initial IMF loan obligation under Global debt poverty.  

/Sarc 

NGO contact information

The Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative | April 18, 2013

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/mdri.htm

 

Google: NGO foundation tax abatement, guess what you find?

https://re.clintonfoundation.org/SSLPage.aspx?pid=4460

http://www.cagi.ch/en/service-ong/fiscalite.php

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:idD8K8JGAHkJ:swimmablenyc.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SWIM-presentation-on-GR-Tax-Abatement-.pdf+NGO+foundation+tax+abatement&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShIysSsHbjChG1RA9XBgH7ANf7mcPv3Syy68vQDJeBmrwR3cTIdhnD5MlieXNR3U7nK1zpP2c3174Q0hSFLosvrxukr4U9C69WzFyjDN_VpcQKUvJzIKvqUw1pqYileKYCMEpV6&sig=AHIEtbSpNfqYmktLs1j1sJ0CKLOOL4mD4g

 

The NGO list goes on.. Building new money laundering shell companies under subsidized IRS tax rules. Winks

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:11 | 3582554 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

or maybe they'll use the AAPL example to shut the loopholes down not in the interest of fairness but to raise the amount companies must pay these congress cretins  to get on the exclusion/wavier list...either pay me nigga or pay the tax...hurry there's only so many slots available on our special list.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:26 | 3582601 azengrcat
azengrcat's picture

Which staffers held AAPL and sold knowing the fairness police were coming? 

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:55 | 3582700 Roger Knights
Roger Knights's picture

Not just staffers. Washington insiders and their cronies on Wall Street.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:15 | 3583412 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

You mean Congressmen and Senators, don't you? (And their family and friends and business associates, of course. [A fish rots from the head down].)

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:29 | 3582612 Z_End
Z_End's picture

What Bullshit. Apple IS paying taxes as opposed to other companies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/general-electric-taxes_n_285209...

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:34 | 3582624 WelfareFTW
WelfareFTW's picture

haha! does this mean i get to say 'in yo face' to all my liberal obama loving relatives that also own large amounts of apple stock.... sheep deserve to get slaughtered..

 

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:41 | 3582649 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

It's more like 'in dey ass' and they seem to love it.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:42 | 3582653 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

How much tax is Samsung paying to our treasury? Which brilliant economic mind in this discussion thinks that business pays taxes? Business customers pay the taxes and every tax a business pays goes straight to its customers. People screaming for businesses to pay more taxes are the same ones looking for anyone and everyone else to pay taxes rather than themselves. If you want to tax rich bastards, go after them directly but quit acting like taxing business is anything different than raising taxes on ourselves. Redistributionists by any other name.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 22:15 | 3582760 centerline
centerline's picture

Deflationary feedback.  DC morons preach one thing and then turn around and create an opposite effect.  In the end creating an even bigger mess.  Either between a rock and a hard place, or stupidity at it's best (or both - lol).

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 02:04 | 3583159 Pseudolus
Pseudolus's picture

OW: Thank you. Absolutely the best thing written on this page.

Because of the tax basis: natural person debt serfs are taxed on income as it arises (exhange of labour without profit) and companies are taxed on profits that remain.

Corporations function as tax collection vehicles in the new regime.

Cheer on fools!

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:01 | 3583397 Freddie
Freddie's picture

No.  I pay taxes.  I do not buy Apple or Samsung products so I end up paying their taxes.  Small businesses pay taxes.  The crony facists like Apple, GE, Berkshire Buffet, many of the banks do not pay any taxes. F them.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:43 | 3582657 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The iPhone just went up $100.  

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:48 | 3582671 clagr
clagr's picture

duplicate

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:47 | 3582672 clagr
clagr's picture

As the Canadians will show us by shipping their oil to China, APPLE should also by headquartering in Ireland and closing down several US offices.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 05:53 | 3583276 Going Loco
Going Loco's picture

Bollocks: "in Ireland where it negotiated a tax rate of less than 2 percent"

Truth here. Never trust a politician.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 21:50 | 3582680 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

The power to tax is the power to destroy, and that's what government does best. I think everyone can agree on that.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:09 | 3583101 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Some asshole from the IRS is downvoting all "taxation sucks" posts.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 06:54 | 3583318 booboo
booboo's picture

I guess the asshole went to bed, he needs to get up early to harrass someone with his fully automatic word processer and his High Capacity banana hammock clip on.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 22:29 | 3582802 Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

Well, if Companies want to be a person in the eyes of the law, let them pay taxes like a person.  Since I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes, I find it very hard to weep for Apple and all of the Chinese that assemble thier products.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 22:46 | 3582853 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I believe that when most corporations are forced to pay 35% taxes, they are being taxes as people, and as one of the basic tenents of our founding is based on no taxation without representation. The fact that we tax these corporations gives them the right to influence taxing policy just like you and I should be doing. If we don't want them doing this then stop taxing them. When America was actively using a protectionist tarriff system we funded almost all of our government, including the military in its first big foreign adventure (Spanish American War) with import tarriffs. Today, through our modern tax system we have effectively reversed that so that we tax virtually tax all domestic production, business as well as private labor and tax hardly any foreign goods brought into our country. And we all bitch about evil corporations sending our jobs out of the country. We buy the the cheap shit because we aren't willing to pay the higher priced domestically produced goods.

The ONLY thing important is JOBS. If we have no jobs, especially jobs that will pay our bills for food, shelter and healthcare, we are done. The symptoms of our failure to respect this fact has been papered over with printed borrowed and stolen money that cannot be sustained indefinitely and will end. But we can keep sucking up every dime from the cushions, putting off the day, but it will still come.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 23:36 | 3582963 Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

I would argue we buy the cheap shit becuase the features and benefits of the more expensive item are not valuable to the consumer.  And I also agree that the only thing that is important currently is jobs.

 

Where I disagree is the idea that somehow taxing corporations in the US is a bad thing.  We could probably resolve the issue by replacing the term "Tax" for "Rent", "Licensing" or "Product placement fee".  Whichever you prefer, but I believe these terms are more accurate.  Afterall, in exchange for a portion of the companies profit, the company gets 1) access to the US market, 2) A stable legal system 3) A capable military 4) and a relatively ameniable bsiness environment.  Let's not forget access to the infastructure paid for by the real people.  Perhaps its time to just call the fee the companies pay for access to our market just whatit is, a fee.  And I've never met a company that didn;t enjoy extra fee's.  Why should the American Company?

 

At the end of the day, companies have a choice.  They can pay the licensing fee, or go form up in Rwanda.  I don't think they will leave.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:11 | 3583106 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Afterall, in exchange for a portion of the companies profit, the company gets 1) access to the US market, 2) A stable legal system 3) A capable military 4) and a relatively ameniable bsiness environment.

I believe Elizabeth Warren was vivisected here and elsewhere for saying essentially the same thing (without the typos).

Were you on that bandwagon then?

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 06:39 | 3583306 Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

Yes.

Mon, 05/20/2013 - 23:19 | 3582929 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Tax is theft. Even when it's taxing APPL.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 00:10 | 3583031 alfbell
alfbell's picture

 

 

Income tax is theft and is destructive. It kills business. It stems from a parasite. Income tax was one of the key reasons for the depression of the 30's. We shouldn't have our income taxed, nor should APPL or any other business entitiy. No income tax. To punish production, innovation, entrepreneurship and creativity is to destroy a nation. Tax consumption if anything. Government should be small and doesn't need huge revenues to do its job: infrastructure, rule of law, regulation, defense. We are light years away from this now.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:06 | 3583097 Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

I thought people speculating too much on margin as well as market manipulation and the dust bowl were the cause of the great depression.  Never heard the income tax theory.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:06 | 3583098 Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

I thought people speculating too much on margin as well as market manipulation and the dust bowl were the cause of the great depression.  Never heard the income tax theory.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:14 | 3583110 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'll agree that taxes in general and income taxes in particular are immoral, but until you can eliminate the system in its entirety, all should pay equally.  It's not about being "fair" or any such sophomoric principle; it's about not pissing off the proles.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 00:18 | 3583043 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

Stupid AAPL, offshore billions wise, $500,000 DEM donation stupid.

They never heard of Corzine?  The guy raised a few hundred grand of other peoples money and obama let him to blatantly rip off account holders of mf global for over a billion. 

Cheap insurance.   AAPL should have dropped a few million to king obama like buying puts insurance on tax liability.

The growing govt intrusion is to ensure every citizen and company runs afoul of some law perpetually so the govt can lean on them for payola and extort political support.    From fines for towing your fishing boat around with the plug in, to offshore billions, they gonna get ya.

 

 

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:36 | 3583130 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

A smoke screen for out of control government spending.

However, the Department of Education is meeting its objectives - Amerians are now so bad at math that they can't figure out that at the rate the Federal Government is spending that $44 billion will not last 5 days. 

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 01:47 | 3583146 dunce
dunce's picture

When asked why he robbed banks , Willie Sutton replied "because that is where the money is". Apple may have the biggest cash stash, but there are many more slipping and sliding.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 03:26 | 3583201 dynomutt
dynomutt's picture

With all of the money at play in this whole event, I'm surprised that Apple has not stood up an army to countervail these tyrannical governmental demands.  I'm sure there are loads of mercs that would want to be paid handsomely to be in the first mounted AAPL division.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:24 | 3583424 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

How 'bout an ap that somehow magically appears on everyone's iCrap thingie simultaneously exposing the various perfidies of the government, its actors, and its henchman. A Julian Assange/zero day kind of approach might be fun.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 10:48 | 3583958 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Plenty of near-term Sci-Fi stories involve MNCs getting militarized security forces that rival/outclass most national militaries.  Good example is Steven Pressfield's "The Profession."  

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 03:43 | 3583213 brettd
brettd's picture

Spending is the problem, not taxes.

 

 

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:26 | 3583430 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

I gave you an up arrow, but ... taxes are a real fucking problem, too. The two most destructive of liberty are real property taxes ("Say, nice place you got here") and income taxes, which are inherently counterproductive.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 05:17 | 3583259 smacker
smacker's picture

Nothing is new and nothing has changed on this for decades...

The US & UK governments have known about these corporate tax loopholes for decades. They created them as a matter of policy.

Why? Because by letting multinational corps get away wth rigged transfer pricing and profits held in offshore havens, thereby producing lower tax payments, it improved employment prospects in these countries and supported corporate capital investment at home and abroad. It also increased corporate donations to the political parties to keep them on side!

A win-win for everybody ...except the ordinary taxpayer.

This arrangement was kept under wraps and the US-IRS & UK-HMRC are forbidden to divulge tax affairs of any taxpayer, meaning that no journalist would get anywhere trying to investigate. It has always been ordinary taxpayers who've picked up the bill for these deals by having to pay more tax on their earnings and spending to keep the parasitic beast fed with money to flush down the lavatory.

The notion that the political filth is now "shocked" to learn of these tax deals is a 100% lie. But the theater being played out is almost amusing.

Some of the corps currently in the frame in the UK:

- Starbucks

- Google

-Amazon

-Marks & Spencers

-Next

There are many many others using these loopholes.

Interestingly but not surprising is that hardly anyone commenting on this issue in MSM or elsewhere ever mentions that the main driver behind tax avoidance are high tax rates. If governments were seriously downsized and tax levels reduced accordingly, it would not be worth anybody spending time/money setting up avoidance measures.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:34 | 3583459 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Just a couple weeks ago, ZeroHedge informed everyone paying attention about this scam:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-04/taxodus-playing-global-tax-avoi...

Not that it was any secret theretofore.

I'm not all that smart. And, I do not work for, oh, the NSA, for instance. I don't have a college degree. Etc. And yet ... I've known about this for years.

Question: If *I* know about this, how the hell could anyone else not? Especially, Congressmen, Senators, those in charge of the tax code, etc.?

The answer, of course, is they did. In fact, they facilitated it.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 09:34 | 3583658 smacker
smacker's picture

Quite right.

As I would expect on ZH, they explained the big picture about corporate tax arrangements and avoidance scams.

And let's have zero doubt about this: governments know and have always known about it; it's been going on for decades. Govts set up and are in control of the tax systems which allow it. And the US-IRS & UK-HMRC also know about it, after all they're dealing with it on a daily basis and they know exactly what's going on.

The main reason they allow it is because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that it leaves more money in corporate bank accounts to invest and create more employment. But they deny it's really corporatism ...And then there's the $$$ bungs which are paid over to the political filth to keep the scams going and not to close the loopholes.

The ordinary taxpayer pays more tax because of these scams.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 06:38 | 3583303 Hedge Fund of One
Hedge Fund of One's picture

Do you think that Obama's cronies @ GE, etc., will get the same treatment?

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 07:39 | 3583373 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

I'm guessing Apple will pass what ever tax increases it incurs right on to the consumer.  People are fucking stupid, only people pay taxes.  Corporations are fictions, they are only a conduit for people to act through.  Cheer on the rasing of corporate taxes and you will pay the bill!

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:29 | 3583439 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Government should be careful.  Apple's next move is to headquarter in Singapore.

Tue, 05/21/2013 - 08:59 | 3583541 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

We all know Barry is tight with Google. Exhibit A of Google trying to codify punishment of their enemies via the IRS.

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