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Gold And Silver Inverse Baumgartner'd
UPDATE 1: Chatter of a potential US downgrade from Moody's is being blamed (but that news out hours ago)
UPDATE 2: Silver futures trading volume 82% higher than 100-day average
While the mainstream media will likely be loathed to mention it, gold and silver are surging higher. Gold has retested $1400 and Silver $23 on no news... so it seems the demand for 'cheaper' precious metals was enough to warrant a 4.6% rally off overnight lows in gold and 12.5% in silver amid heavy volume in futures markets...
Charts: Bloomberg
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E ticket rides.
Sweet! I bought silver last night!
Look at it reverse. A nice FUBM!
Live: http://www.pmbull.com/silver-price/
IT IS MANIPULATION!
Now, they loaded their lifeboats and the manipulation is changing to UPSIDE ... still manipulation though...
Why do all the precious metal bugs continue to cry manipulation? We have free markets at a level that the world has never seen before. Why invest in a unproductive asset like silver/gold? It's just a shiny metal of no use; buy US equities instead.
About time we have a Billion Dollar Bonus... Reserve your "Trillion Dollar Bonus" and "Quadrillion Dollar Bonus" names now!
;P
Now if only that hedge fund that imploded yesterday had been able to survive one more day.
Someone made a killing buying overnight under $20...
Oh yeah - a bunch of Asian shorts are going to get creamed tonight as they wakeup to a 10% change in the silver price from overnight close to NY close. I think i'm feeling a buy today and watch them suffer tonight...
Did somebody mention Kate Upton?
Could a ZH regular reference the post yesterday describing the terminology of a proceedure whereas the "heart is removed through the rectum"?
Methinks this will become commonplace practice in the days/weeks ahead, and would like to quote it.
100% normal market. lol.
Also, did y'all see that the headlines continue to read "US Fed may slow QE." LMAO! Bernocchio the liar - has to QE until the end and continues to be completely ineffectual and emasculated so headlining is now the Fed's only policy.
The Fed is a JOKE!!!!
Word on the street is there is a Bank Vault run by the 1% Oligarch ETF paper holders that want physical delivery with a future 100% margin call.
Paper silver will continue to move toward zero on high and increasing volatility as the market continues to be confused about the nature of paper in relation to physical. Physical prices will decouple, and will eventually ignore the spot price altogether.
When the exchanges fail, the industrial panic will come, and we will get an explosion to the upside, culminating in a blow off top before silver eventually settles back into a price range that is much closer to that of gold than it is now (think platinum or palladium, most likely the latter).
But of course, I have been saying this since before it rose about $20 for the first time, so I could be wrong. But this all looks like a bunch of volatility and illiquidity to me.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-19/silver-plunges-yen-stop-surge-t...
Bastiat: transrectal cardiectomy.
+1 Thanks.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-19/silver-plunges-yen-stop-surge-triggers-margin-liquidation#comment-3578573
Damn you Loco!
You can't beat me, my comments are now posted by an algo in milliseconds
Wow! That's a huge green candle that just got shoved up Blythe's backside...
the shorts on pms are going to be squeezed to death.
I hear she prefers porcupines and pineapples.
Key reversal day
I've never seen a bigger bullish engulfing candle ever.
guys/gals, arguing without arguments is foolish and I enjoy the smart people here and hate wasting time with the foolish.
Anybody who has any financial knowledge knows that the value of anything is equal to the discounted value of the cash flows it generates. With cash flows in a day of fiat worthless currencies something very hard to measure. But lets use goods and services. While there is a higher net present value project available to investors (thanks to the CRAZY QE, that project today is SPY or equivalent), they will go for that project at a similar risk. And that is why Gold / Silver are down, it is only because there are better, more efficient ways to offer REPPO leverage on your collateral, giving that CBs are accepting shit that you can buy at discounted prices (of fiat money true, but in the end who cares) and offer as REPPO as highly inflated prices since they are not marking to market (if they did they would have to show the world that the financial system is broke).
All this could revert on a dime and Gold go to the sky, but in the meantime by doing what they are doing they will be able to flip and buy more gold. The key is to guess right when is the FED going to stop or slow down QE.
Untili next time,
Engineer
"Anybody who has any financial knowledge knows that the value of anything is equal to the discounted value of the cash flows it generates."
Man. And I thought the folks who commented on Zerohedge had at least a tiny modicum of rational thought.
The "value of anything" is determined by a buyer and a seller in a non-coerced transaction. It has little to do with the "discounted value of the cash flow it generates", unless both parties agree to that. Which, increasingly, they don't.
Its the same argument you hear from shills/paid disinformation agents/trolls, all the time.
"The price is low, but you should wait for it to go lower." Instead of buying low?
"The market is manipulated, so why not jump in with both feet. Buy into the already overpriced market." Instead of recognizing that only insiders will win in that kind of market?
Its always the same defeatist "If you can't beat em, join em" BS.
"The key is to guess right when is the FED going to stop or slow down QE." - LMFAO!
That's easy, never. Who will buy bonds and alow the deficit spending to increase? The system is set up such that sovereign debt must increase, period. Who will lend the U.S. money and buy those bonds? Sure as hell won't be me.
Not to give them any ideas, but, a new little provision requiring all 401K's and IRA's to hold a minimum of 50 % of US Treasurys in their portfolios would probably work well, until the people said f*ck that and cash out.
Forcing people to do anything is a sure-fire way to kill the system, bring it! Shit, I know several who cashed out in 2007/2008, simply because they remembered 2001.
I was one of them.
US will have a currency/debt crisis in 5-7 years. At that point interest rates will go to the moon, along with Gold.
Why 5-7 years? I already see commodity brokers saying "take a cash settlement or take nothing" now. This would imply you scenario is just around the corner.
"Anybody who has any financial knowledge knows that the value of anything is equal to the discounted value of the cash flows it generates"
Buffet used to say that until one day Munger was heard to remark that he'd never seen Buffet do a dcf. Then Buffet stopped saying it.
HA!
I was just doing the cat daddy.
Prolly should make that "Zimbabwe Trillion Dollar Bonus", DoChen.
lol.
Avogadro's number is only a little less than a trilllion trillion. And then ther's Aleph-null.
Using Avogadro's number(6.022 x 10 to the 23rd power), we have 2.8 picomoles of debt. Stated that way, it don't sound all that bad !!!
In due time he'll need to get familiar with the "googol" and "googolplex" notions.
Would this be big enough?: (9!)^(9!)^(9!)^(9!)
I Missed Silver in Asia yesterday night, at least I bought a bit of Gold early in the morning...
IF you like Gold and Silver, you have a to love JC Penney. Why? As nominal interest rates rise with inflation (while they stay negative in real terms) all retailers have rising rent expenses and pass along that in consumer goods, but JC penney will start to see the benefit of below market leases in that environment....
'About time we have a Billion Dollar Bonus... Reserve your "Trillion Dollar Bonus" and "Quadrillion Dollar Bonus" names now!'
They're only $19,999,999,999,999.95!
And we'll throw in a Robot Trader FREE!!
CALL NOW!
Why do you collect pieces of paper with drawings of old dead men on them? And why do you give those pieces of paper to gangsters that charge you to protect said paper? Sounds like the actions of a crazy asshole.
Come to think about it....
The "value of anything" is determined by a buyer and a seller in a non-coerced transaction.
The "value of anything" is equal to the discounted value of the cash flows it generates.
The value of anything is just as ephemeral as female beauty.
Its all in the eye of the beholder.
So you live in a world without risk? I'm so happy for you.
The "value of anything" is determined by a buyer and a seller in a non-coerced transaction.
Is "If I don't get this job then I'll lose my house and starve to death" the same as "non-coerced"?
Just askin'
because live men won't be caught dead pictured on that shit !!!
i'll need proof that we "have a free market", otherwise you remain irrelavant.
They want thier bonus back...
looks like hyper-inflation is taking its toll...
1000%
Nice!
;>P
First thought that came to mind here :-)
Well, most portfolios have some allocation to cash or cash equivalents. You and your ilk are missing the point by a wide margin. Most metal bugs do not see gold as an alternative to owning productive assets/companies. Instead, they believe gold will allow them to buy more productive assets/companies in the future than they would be able to purchase with a fiat currency held over the same time period. Your "shiny metal of no use" has served as the pre eminant currency of the world for the whole of recorded history. Furthermore, if you understood mining, you would understand that we are rapidly pushing up against the top end of cash costs for many new mines. At the same time, physical gold is barely meeting demand. You are buying into a hillarious narrative set forth by central banks the world over that is meant to mute the effects of their profligate and unsustainable money print. You were probably advocating real estate purchases in 2007 as well, citing the whole "buy real estate cause they ain't makin any more of it" mantra. This too shall pass my friend. Any unsustainable activity will come to an end.
RealTime Paul Craig Roberts: No Bear Market In Gold —
by Paul Craig Roberts
You know that gold bear market that the financial press keeps touting? The one George Soros keeps proclaiming? Well, it is not there. The gold bear market is disinformation that is helping elites acquire the gold.Certainly, Soros himself doesn’t believe it, as the 13-F release issued by the Securities and Exchange Commission on May 15 proves. George Soros has significantly increased his gold holding by purchasing $25.2 million of call options on the GDXJ Junior Gold Miners Index...
In addition the Soros Fund maintains a $32 million stake in individual mines; added 1.1 million shares of GDX (a gold miners ETF) to its holdings which now stand at 2,666,000 shares valued at $70,400,000; has 1,100,000 shares in GDXJ valued at $11,506,000; and 530,000 shares in the GLD gold fund valued at $69,467,000. [values as of May 17]
The 13-F release shows the Soros Fund with $239,200,000 in gold investments. If this is bearish sentiment, what would it take to be bullish?
more here: http://www.degaray.com/?p=3348
someone has the FOMC minutes perhaps?
The fat boy in the pool can hold the beachball under the water for only so long...
Manipulation is a hell of a drug.
Who knew if you go short that at some point you have to cover?
At least until he farts and dislodges it from his rectum.
Nah...
Come on, that could never happen.
Jesus... you Conspiracy Theorists...
(whistling happy random tunes)
@ knuk
You are blinded by the silver lining that surrounds you, lol.
Anyone seen Clarence Beeks lately?
He's cuddling with a male gorilla somewhere and Corzine should be with him.
made 10% on AGQ today
If you're going to report your winners please report losers too. Otherwise STFU!
If you are going to post your trades do so at the time you enter and give full details (except for quantity); then report your exit immediately you make it and provide the comment number of your entry post. This enables you to be called out on idle boasts, outright lies, sell-side puff, and other similar crap.
By the way. this isn't really a trading board. It's fight club. You just got punched in the face (figuratively speaking of course).
There are lots of them, Cant I have one shining moment?
No. For one, I don't want to hear about a lucky find for some stooper.
You gotta fight until somebody taps out. Ain't gonna be me.
This is just the beginning, long way to go.
Let's see where it closes....but indeed...two years of silver selling coming to a close.
And here come the criminal syndicate Wall Street analysts to suggest further commodity price depreciation on "Global growth slowing." Not that the broader markets know anything about slowing...
Need moar "retirements" in Wall Street analyst land!
Jim Sinclari called "bottom" last week (wrong)
Turd Fergusons turn this week surely to be wrong?
Anyone talks bottom (shit) it's Turd, his calls (failure rate) are 99% wrong which matches the morons of Rob Prechters Elliot Wave village idiot organisation
Be that as it may...Cdad thinks silver has quite possibly bottomed today. We shall see, as we are not closed yet...but if the AGQ closes in the green today on heavy volume...add Cdad to the bottom call list.
[no position yet]
only 6 down votes? ....sheesh, even the Turd Ferguson crowd/losers/chumps are running out of steam
Turb admitted last week his call/failure rate was 99% ...what don't his followers understabnd about "Exit This Way" signs flashing in neon ...he'll have left you all in the lurch, much the poorer, by year end ...like the Elliot Wave Merchants of Death
FWIW Cdad is one of the few I take any notice of here.
If this is the bottom then my prediction for gold yesterday will come back to haunt me!
Nice of you to say.
Yes, what happened? That was a pretty fast and serious spike.
Could FOFOA be right?
"Gold Arithmetic"
http://tinyurl.com/ba7um78
More buyers than sellers !!!
(yuk, yuk, yuk,,,)
im sort of sitting here waiting for some sort of news item which could explain this.
Actually I was sitting here trying to decide whether they were going to take down the paper price further, or should I apply dry powder as needed.
Not looking forward to "another" boating accident.
I was just getting ready to add a touch of DUST....
Now I'm really confused..., nothing new.
Hey Escape, May I recommend the collected works of Tyler Durden and the ZeroHedge dancing commentators review.
It is likely that the very aggressive selling in illiquid Asian markets overnight was by a large hedge fund or bank or a combination of hedge funds and banks with deep pockets. Reuters quoted an analyst at a Japanese bank who said that silver’s price falls were due to one “unidentified investor.”
Short covering would be my guess. Things are probably getting a little too volatile even for paper players.
Short covering would be my guess.
This phenomenon only happens in practically every major stock on the index. But when it happens in pms it's selectively claimed as some big mystery. People do understand what short covering means right?
Other than basic technicals it could also be the fears of South Africa but that would affect silver less.
In any case, this is the futures which is worth noting because a lot of people on here like to pretend the physical price is diverging from the 'paper.'
"like to pretend the physical price is diverging from the 'paper." ummmmmmm yeah, you mean like the 2 local shops that I go to charging $31 per on any type of silver, generic or state issued? Keep thinking there Cole...it does the world good.
you mean like the 2 local shops that I go to charging $31 per on any type of silver, generic or state issued?
When they pay you 25% over spot to buy back I'll believe it. Just because your local dealer is ripping people off doesn't mean the phys / paper prices are diverging on a larger scale.
Someone on here a week or so ago said his 'LCS' was charging 37$ for Eagles and so asked the dealer how much the dealer would pay for Eagles (because of the huge shortage and all) and the dealer said 23$ (spot price) explaining that no one was selling... hmmmmmmmm
Industrial phys (big chunk of the market) has always been much cheaper than spot.
How do you explain Tulving's buy prices?
90% Silver Coin Bags (Our Choice Dimes Or Quarters) $1,000 Face Value
Figured at 715 Ozs Per $1,000 Face
YouTube Video 90% Silver Coin Bags US $1000 Face Value Junk Silver
$1,000 Face Value
Minimum
We Buy @ Spot + $1.80
Per Oz
(Spot + $1.80 X 715)
2009-2013 Sealed Mint Boxes Of 1 Oz. Silver American Eagles - Dates Our Choice
Brand New Coins
500 Coin Minimum
(1 Sealed Box)
Buy @ Spot + $2.40
Eagles are a specific product which should trade at a premium. I tried to go through the Tulving site to see their general prices but it's a total mess - awful website!
On kitco (just as a general price barometer) they'll buy AmEagles for 25.24$, rounds for 22.74$, which is what you'd expect.
They sell eagles for 27.87$.
https://online.kitco.com/selltokitco/selltokitco_USD.html
The paper and physical price have not been one and the same for a long long time. A premium is a divergence between spot and the physical price, you know. Lately premiums are bigger, and people are commenting on what they see. Like, for e.g. you can get AG American Eagles for $26.60, which people will then say, that doesn't mean silver is worth $26.60 as thats just an ask price.
Correct. But the unfilled bids are above $25! So take that to mean what you will, but the silver futures price is still a long way below $25!
I am talking about bids and asks on Nucleo Direct, btw.
The paper and physical price have not been one and the same for a long long time. A premium is a divergence between spot and the physical price, you know.
Of course the price you pay for a phyiscal refined product will be higher than a futures contract for obvious reasons. But we're talking divergence, which would suggest that the two markets have separated relative to each other (the 'paper' & the physical).
I.e. this kind of nonsense:
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/5/16_Pr...
Futures operates a lot different than the physical delivery market obviously but not in the way guys like that are suggesting.For obvious reasons? Why should there be a difference between a 100 oz Good Delivery bar of silver, and the price of futures, which supposedly are as good as silver, you just have to take delivery. Personally, it seems to me obvious that THERE SHOULDN'T be a difference between the price of bullion bars (physical = spot + premium) and spot price (of futures). I'm not talking about premiums on coins here.
Why should there be a difference between a 100 oz Good Delivery bar of silver, and the price of futures, which supposedly are as good as silver, you just have to take delivery. Personally, it seems to me obvious that THERE SHOULDN'T be a difference between the price of bullion bars (physical = spot + premium) and spot price (of futures).
You're buying a forward contract, so basically you're agreeing on a pre-determined price. Like going to your local dealer and agreeing to buy at a specific price next month - you don't set the price only to add an
arbitrary premium later.
Especially as the whole reason you're doing the forward contract is to protect your current production / holdings etc.
Of course the price you pay for a phyiscal refined product will be higher than a futures contract for obvious reasons
LOL did you just say that backwardation is the normal market behaviour for a commodity metal?
And it's even obvious?
We were talking about premiums.
Yes, the premium for spot over future delivery. Which is also known as backwardation.
Ironically, backwardation is normal for gold only because of the fact that it is money.
That's not what we (or at least I) was referring to, gold backwardation is a whole other argument.
The argument about premiums was related to this idea a lot of goldbugs have at the moment that specifically because the premium in their coinshop is much higher relative to the spot price this must mean that there's a disconnect between the physical and 'paper.'
i.e. the June contract @ 1387 is smoke and mirrors because some 'LCS' is charging 1470$
That's not what you said before.
Of course you can't derive reliable data from a single coin shop, but even less reliable is the data from rigged markets like the LBMA.
The coin shop is constrained by real world supply and demand mechanics. The LBMA is not.
Proof of this is that it is possible for supply to run dry at the coin shop, regardless of what its clients are willing to pay. This can never happen in the LBMA because it doesn't trade gold.
You can get a clearer view by looking at how much the coin shop pays for buybacks. Calculate the mid price between this and the price it charges for sales and... surprise! It's repeatedly and consistently over spot.
And when this premium isn't high enough, surprise! Artificial scarcity.
That's what people are talking about here all the time. Of course if you mix it with the price spread associated with the costs of running a store (somebody has to pay the rent, right?), you manage to confuse things and then can pull silly arguments like saying the store is just ripping you off (which was the whole point all along, wasn't it).
Volumes are just off the charts. That's a full blown short squeeze.
Technically, it's a key reversal if we can hold it into the close!
And last night's "winning" squeezee is...
Hold tight. The Buttnaky put is about to push the ponzi over!!
Volumes off the charts because algos flash crashed it last night in anticipation of shorts closing out positions. This is 100% planned, gamed, and executed among the bullion banks. The recent purchases of physical has them now changing positions and, yes, technically this is a reversal if held. But technicals mean nothing in this poker game.
Yeah, looks just like Volkswagon and Tesla! A short squeeze in Futures is very different than what you are seeing today. Get some experience first.
Uhm tested $1400 a second time just a few minutes ago. And the second bottom is far above the first one.
If this was a normal market, I'd say it looks very bullish.
Could it be that no-one is fooled by the naked-short volumeless takedowns anymore?
Our commodities guys told me theres been big clips of 100lots go through a few individual times starting at noon on the June13 gold contract. Huge size, considering people trade this thing with 1 lots and 10 is considered big size.
Perhaps the Cninese have had enough of this bollox?
China takes physical, the west gets left with paper. Works for me!
Squeezy peasey
...Japanese-y.
Plus one for the Seventies' Disney ride ticket references.
Where is Million Dollar Bonus when we need him? LOLOL
Yabba dabba doo time?
HK futures Exchange went under last night. Is this not newsworthy?
http://www.commodities-now.com/news/14514-hkmex-voluntarily-surrenders-automated-trading-services.html
I assume there is some reason ZH is not covering the delivery default.
You must've been sleeping, or cannot master teh googles.
Edit: errr... nevermind, it wasn't put on the blog by a Tyler, but a contributer at the top of the page.
OMG! I haven't seen that. This is significant!
Hey lj,
This avatar was dibbed a long time ago.
Could be worse, Pinch your avatar and call himself... noced
Tyler doesn't need to ...
not with you keeping us informed.
Got Silver ?
Pfizz, that is.
Yeah, seems like big story to me. Only the first of the paper PM rackets to die unless they let real price discovery take place.
Pay no attention - after all, I've been told repeatedly that gold is in a bear market, and although there's anectodal evidence that 4 billion of the worlds population is buying their share of the total 7 billion oz,Adrian Ash informed readers this morning that the falling prices have resulted in 'waning' retail demand out of Asia. So clearly, this physical demand and falling prices is both
- the new normal bear market and
- not even happening.
Fuck it, I'm not making any sense - what I'm trying to say is that price is going to keep going down, I don't think I should have to explain myself.
Adrian Ash informed readers this morning that the falling prices have resulted in 'waning' retail demand out of Asia. So clearly, this hysical demand and falling prices is both
- the new normal bear market and
- not even happening.
Fuck it, I'm not making any sense - what I'm trying to say is that price is going to keep going down, I don't think I should have to explain myself.
With all due respect to Mr.Ash, the Indians, and Chinese, and Rooskies did not get his memo.
this is what pathetic looks like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7XpiFu0M_g
I was wondering when you would show up.
You should have James Cole write on your blog.
what's more pathetic - a shill who convinces people to buy a depreciating asset or the downvoters who come to his defense?
I'm not defending Turd, just bashing your sorry ass.
for what reason?
you're not defending someone who calls himself "Turd" - good for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFO-C97rxzc
Why do you troll this board? Thats the question.
to help people make better investment decisions, like not owning precious metals over the past year
http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/search/label/GOLD
i have posted extensively on this subject - what's your reason for being here other than "bashing" me?
do you have a blog or any charts or articles online that would be helpful to anyone? if so i'd like to see them
i'm waiting...
http://chartistfriendfrompittsburgh.blogspot.com/2013/05/this-is-what-pa...
take your spam to another neighborhood.
do you have anything useful online or are you only capable of whining?
only capable of whining
ya got nothing, just a lot of whining
You were looking for this chart I think:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZAty98f4Lv4/UZpqFsro8TI/AAAAAAAAl4U/VPdUBWe7oX...
that's my chart showing when Shithead Ferguson started his website
you got any charts worth looking at?
Wake me me it "depreciates" to under $300 and ounce (current dollar cost average on my physical gold), I'll take delivery of more then. Will be happy to sell some equities at that point.
TOTAL. F*CKING. CHAOS.
Congratulations, Bernanke.
Isn't it nice that we now have "bucket shops" setting the prices of key commodities?
poor paper suckers..having some issues with some shorts ?
i think i'm gonna cry. not . only wish some of them would die in the process.
I wonder how Soros feels losing 16% right after he boughgt JCP.
He didn't loose any money!
He's still got stacks and stacks of jeans, underpants, socks, wife beaters, sweatshirts, nighties, bras, lipstick, shoes....
It's Bush's Fault
Anyone out there care to dig into PM history and tell the rest of the world what happened last time there were these epic swings back and forth based on no news? If I recally correctly, things broke.
Things are already broke, so we are going to need a new reason...
Laomel, maybe markets don't move on news, ever thought of that?!!
Anyone else got a bad feeling in the pit of their stomach?
Several websites I've been on have mentioned something going down between the 24th and 31st of this month.
I have an unerving feeling we are in the end throws of the whole shit show. Take care folks, its all uphill from here.
Everyday somebody's forecasting the end of the world ....
They're right.
Just got the dates wrong.
All the time
Thats right Knukles,
But it has to end at some point doesnt it? I have a bad feeling that something ill this way blows. And as usual, we will be the last to know.
400 years and counting.
Relax boys (or buckle up, as you please), today's just an astrologically fucked up day with a cardinal square by 2 heavy planets.
This shit's far from over, but it seems something's gonna pop soon coughNipponcough.
If only Johnny Smith would just hold my hand...
The end is going to come on a date no-one predicted, like maybe "tomorrow" ?
I am calling for May 21st, so we can all know tomorrow is safe.