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Portugal Banks Warn European Leaders: "You Can't Keep Playing With Fire"
While we are told day after day that not only is Europe 'fixed' but that Cyprus was not a template, it seems the bankers in the peripheral nations are a little less confident (never mind their record amount of reach-around-based domestic bond buying). European "leaders need to moderate their language," warned one bank CEO, and as the FT reports, another feared a "Cyprus virus," adding that "you can't keep playing with fire." The comments come in the wake of the depositor haircuts in Cyprus as a rush of clients wanted to move cash from deposit accounts to vaults: "most clients in Portugal don't trust deposit guarantees... they choose vaults instead." Fixed indeed... and why would these bankers worry about the 'precedent' if it were not a 'template' for future bail-ins?
Portugal’s top bankers have called on Europe’s leaders to stop “playing with fire” and moderate their stance towards the eurozone periphery, or risk instilling alarm among bank depositors in future.
...
“Leaders need to moderate their language. This could be very bad,” Ricardo Espírito Santo Salgado, chief executive of BES, told the Financial Times.
Nuno Amado, his opposite number at BCP, talked of a “Cyprus virus”, saying: “If someone had designed a plan to hurt the European market, it would be difficult to think of something better . . . You can’t keep playing with fire.”
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“There was huge nervousness,” Mr Amado said.
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“Most clients in Portugal don’t trust deposit guarantees and they have no means to open accounts abroad,” said one person close to BPI. “They choose vaults instead.”
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Just need a now entirely manic J. Cramer to come out and defend Portugal's bank stocks. After that, complete and total economic recovery across all of the PIIGS nations.
The New Desperate Normal.
LOL ... As if a bank vault is any safer than a bank account! Hahaha ... ROFL.
I was thinking the same thing. Can easily envision all safety deposit boxes and commercial vaults being frozen for inspection and "money laundering".
There are certain key differences between a vault and a bank vault.
None that cannot be overcome by decree.
Possession. Either ya gots it, or ya don't.
one question : what happened to safe deposit boxes in cyprus? if people could get their stuff without a haircut, then the boxes are definitely winners over the accounts. anyone in the know?
In Argentina people have 700,000 bank vaults and history has told them up to know that despite a 10 quadrillion ratio between 1 peso of 1969 and 1 peso of today, bank vaults have been respected (remember that the elite has the same problem than the plebe here, well except the Argentinean President Cristina Kirchner and a few of her partners that have built walk in vaults capable of holding billions of Euros in theiir homes in the South of Argentina).
Some people conservatively estimate that each vault holds 20,000 Dollars, which would mean that inside the Country Argentineans are holding 14,000,000,000 yes fourteen billion dollars in cash! Crazy isn't it?
The fact that the Vicepresident was flying without crossing customs or inmigration to Uruguay last week with bags full of cash may mean that the safety of safety deposite boxes may be at an end...
Does a bank stress test include an audit of the private vaults in the bank?
/sarc
Too much like work. They'll merely determine an average mark that they're comfortable with.
/sadly, not likely sarc
You can't just open a private vault without the customer's key or a lock picker and a notary (in case of a deceased customer without heirs, for instance), so I seriously doubt it - if not, just imagine its cost/time effectiveness and the social/political/legal risks associated (weren't talking about plain dumb depositors, but people with a minimum level of political/financial awareness/antibodies).
Also, they're not bank assets - not any more than your household effects are your landlord's assets, anyway - so can't see why/how that could be done.
but can you imagine if they turned water to wine and filled the vaults with the physical cash.......the hoarders would be embarrassed seeing that much trash in one place......
the safe sales have been hitting record highs in europe to such an extend France is considering a 200euros "eco-tax" on them ....
Liberty Safe Co. currently has a 12 - 16 week (and growing) wait on delivery of safes. Up from 8 to 12 weeks just two months ago.
Why is everyone buying a home safe?!!
/sarc
Meanwhile, in Greece ...
Off topic, but I just noticed this, posted by ZH about ten days ago:
Notice On RacismSubmitted by Zero Hedge on 05/10/2013 14:24 -0400
Racism, to include any religious affiliation, will not be tolerated in ANY FORM on this site, including the disparagment of people in the comments section.
To report any form of discrimination, please right click on the comment number, copy the link to the comment, and send the comment link to abuse [at] zerohedge.com.
Any user found to be discriminating against ANY race, religion, or affiliation, will be banned immediately, and have their comments removed from the system.
You have been warned.
I guess someone has put some pressure on Zerohedge- maybe Jesse Jackson, for alll of the anti-Black rhetoric in the comments section. Everyone knows ZH commenters are rabidly anti-Black and anti-Latino. I commend this new policy, and I am sure it will not only preserve the free-speech of the ZH community but actually serve to enhance it.
...
Yep ... I'm speechless, too.
Well, laying on you back cutting "Z's" like that, I suppose you are.
Are the down-votes for me mentioning the new policy, or for my "support" of ZeroHedge's new free-speech promoting policy?
if that was a video clip on americas most funniest videos clips of the last 1000 years it would win the 100mil. without a second or third place finishers....it cant be topped ever....ever...can it?...
Really? Because my first guess would have been some whining, litigious jews.
IEA Feb Monthly Electricity Statistics are showing brutal declines in OECD Europe.
It looks like a repeat of 2008/9 but more centered on Europe this time around the sun.
OECD Europe
Feb Elec. supplied : -7.1%
Jan Feb : – 2.7%
Both France & Germany down 9 % in Feb.
With Finland & Czech Rep down 11+ %
Portugal looks like a war zone with elec supplied down 21.3% in Feb & 15.5% Jan to Feb.
http://www.iea.org/stats/surveys/mes.pdf
And it's been an astonishing long and cold winter, BG came out and said their gas sales were up 18% to private cutomers over the similar period last year.
These figures are even worse than face value indicates.
@Rip
No long term government investment in nuke & coal allowed since 1986 ~ in these countries.
Dash for gas filled the void.
Now gas not available in quantity especially after jap nuclear shutdown (not anough Qatar LNG available)
EU not sovergin so it must transfer its energy ration book elsewhere.
Implosion.
Interesting to note that the US is among the best performing in this ugly picture with a yearly growth of ~1.7% another one is Australia ~4.1% Feb growth and 3.3% yearly
It's probably worth mentioning Japan with -7.8% in February and -4.9% for the year.
Italy with -7.6% and -4.7% is also a major blow...
and Finland with -11% for February and -4.5% for the year
Non sov Europe transfering its energy ration books to sov US & Auzie land in a world without final settlement.
Having said that - these sov countries don't really need absurd high end added value products that the euro trash region does so well.
Europe has a long history of treating its "Citizens" like Serfs and the New Aristocracy that has arisen in Plato's Republic in the EU is probably the nearest thing to Commissars with Princely Disdain. That is probably French, for nowhere else have they replaced a King with a Republic then an Emperor then a King then an Emperor then a President before arriving at de Gaulle's Fifth Republic with an Imperial President sans Empire.
Where else does a President act like an Emperor and inhabit a Palace formerly "the home of the King's whore" with an Imperial Guard and pretend their Dictator was some great paragon worthy of a tomb at the Dome des Invalides ?
France created this contempt for the Citizens of Europe in its francophone EU creation and it is going to see what a New 1789 looks like when the whole system goes up in flames. No doubt they will expect Us drone attacks to keep them in power !
The French don't want to be German or obey the edicts of Merkel's EU. They don't want to be Anglo-Saxons.
Their whims don't change the fact that they are a herd headed for the slaughterhouse of history, and no thanks to their obnoxious socialist emperor.
No indeed, but they do want their money.
"Where else does a President act like an Emperor..."
The USA?
unless the "vault" is in YOUR HOUSE, your money is still at the bank and therefore, not safe.
It may not be "safe" at YOUR HOUSE, either. It may be "safer", but ultimately it may depend on how remote and protected the abode is.
The Argentinean president Cristina Kirchner and her partners have a small army with supermodern weapons and top security around their "houses" which are in the middle of giant farms with no access and out of the way. They can be monitored via satellite...
Allocate some assets away from all counter-party risk.
This will mitigate both confiscation and future means testing.
"Off-book rich", may be one of few ways to prosper in the future.
Dark_Horse
And uninsured too - last November, in Portugal, a single customer lost 5 kilos in gold bars, in a bank vault robbery - total was estimated at over a million euro, uninsured.
This January, in Berlin, robbers dug a 30 meter long tunnel to rob private vaults in a bank; in March, in Paris, robbers dug trough an 80 cm thick wall to rob 200 private vaults; in 2009, in Montreuil, 117 vaults were also been robbed.
They're only uninsured if the customer chooses not to insure them (which there can be valid reasons for), or the customer is an idiot.
Most insurance companies that I've seen won't cover anything more than a trival amount for collectible coins on a home policy. Start talking bullion and they will direct you to a bank.
A homeowner's insurance policy is different than a vault insurance policy. Even in Europe a homeowner's policy is baseline (junk) if you have art, antiques, PM's, jewelry, cash, etc. lying around the house. If someone has enough assets to need a vault (be it bank, in-home, or specialized provider) they should have the financial wherewithall to obtain an appropriate insurance policy.
No bank in Portugal offers insurance for vault content, that I know; and if they do, they don't advertise it... also, most people won't do it for a reason: you lose all confidentiality, plus it's probably a significant extra cost on top of the (relatively minimal) vault renting.
Vaults are the best options for nearly everyone. Why would anyone want to deposit money in a bank? Credit Unions are a much better choice for those in the USA.
SafeWealth in Switzerland will buy cash notes in any of 8 currencies as well as precious metals. At least they can't automatically confiscate what isn't in the electronic banking system.
The US,UK, & EUROZONE all favor bail-ins.Why take any chances? The banksters and their politicans are all desperate which means they are looking for your cash whether in your bank deposits, IRA or 401(k). It's just a matter of time before the next theft occurs.
Bank vaults are uninsured and more attractive to robbers than individual houses, unless they have info on a particular house - read my post above.
The system is not designed to work.
Its has no sov power anymore.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/05/some-approaches-to-the-market-state-part-i.html
Link to a socialist blog? Nice try.
To really understand whats going on watch this video:
A look at banking tycoons: from the Rothschild family in Europe to JP Morgan and others in the US. How banks not only control governments but also appoint politicians through huge campaign donations.
The Banking Cartel:
http://homment.com/banking-Cartel
We have the absurd situation of France engaged in the biggest rail overcapacity experiment in the history of rail and Spain shutting down its rail services.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban-rail/single-view/view/EUR265bn-grand-paris-metro-expansion-programme-confirmed.html
http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/05/20/spain-considers-massive-cut-to-medium-distance-train-travel/
Why is this ?
The euro is not a state currency
It is not fiat in its true state understanding of the term.
It is a unit of capital and not a token of the state.
Capital will seek to build shit and then once its built will take the tokens away so it is not used.
Leaving a junk hinterland in its wake.
I posted it before but i think it's worth re-posting. http://www.globalresearch.ca/g20-governments-all-agreed-to-cyprus-style-...
Goes well with a peice by Matthias Chang that WB7 posted some days ago. http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-05-15/no-bank-deposits-will-be...
Absorbing losses..... No thanks.
These insane communists who are ruining Europe into the ground couldnt care less, as long as they get their one world utopia they lie awake dreaming about.
They'll burn the fucker down regardless, they are criminaly insane, incompetent, self-serving fucking parasites. None of Barosso's squad have had meaningful employment outside of politics so how would this lot of fucking shysters know how to run something smoothly?
Fuck me, name one business or institution that could get away with 19 years of not having the books signed off like this lot of fraudsters? Lock them in the Euro parliament, and let them burn it down themselves cos' thats whats coming.
I see the EU paid shills are out and about.
Fuck off, unskilled fucking idiots. Go and do something PRODUCTIVE for once in your useless miserable existance.
Unfortunately any mention of 'communism' in this day and age will get you nothing but strange looks from a bunch of ingoramuses who don't understand the intellectual history of the ideology of these social-engineers.
I keep having this dream of seeing Manuel Barroso hanging upside down with piano wire round his ankles in the centre of Brussels. I wonder what it means......................................
Funny how one of the biggest news items of today regarding Europe is being completely and utterly ignored by ZeroHedge so far.
Doesn´t fit the deal-book?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-business-we-need-t...
Let´s dedicate an entire article about what some bank presidents of not even big portuguese banks say instead though.
I read that article. It basically says that the illuminati wants to stay in the EU. Kinda like the illuminati in the U.S. demanding more Fed intervention.
lol right. Tin-foil hat fitting nicely I see?
Rotschild actually lost quite some money last year betting against Europe btw, if you wanna go all illuminati on my ass:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48721839
Cheers.
I see that in your topsy-turvy world a short position in the euro currency equals a 'bet' against the political construct of 'Europe'. A tinfoil hat looks less ridiculous than a propellerhead waving an EU flag, at least.
It was in reply to the Illuminati drivel above, which while making for nice Dan Brown novels doesn´t do anything in the sense of having an actual sensible discussion.
I didn´t even get started about how big of a hypocrite Nigel Farage is by the way, but I will save that for when I need more downvotes.
Cheers.
LOL ... give them (the Tylers) time. That article is a [desperation] hoot!
A letter signed by a BoE director, a former diplomat, a career civil servant and the chairwoman of a media and events company. Wow!!
I wouldn't say this is one of the biggest news stories of the day.
After all, any referendum held in the UK on EU membership will not be held until after the next general election in 2015. And it has already been flagged by myself (and probably others) that in the period before said referendum, all the Europhiles will be wheeled out to ratchet up the fear about leaving. The BBC, Sky News and most influential newspapers will do their State duty and give max publicity to the "stay in" campaign.
ALL Eu nationals living in the UK will be entitled to vote in any Referendum
Small savers aren't needed any more. The government can print what ever it needs.
Cyprus was a template, it will happen again, no doubt in my mind....no way around it.
Like Timmer confiscating US Fed employee pension funds to postpone a breach of the debt ceiling in '11? We know Cyprus will not be the last because it was not the first.
1986 - Lets Destroy Iberia................
2010 - lets destroy the landscape of Morocco
Why build stuff if there is no fiat demand ...........this is the great mystery of our time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVloYIMXddY
I was about to say something lessthan flattering about Europhiles, and then I remembered that Europhilia is an affiliation, if not a religion. So much for free speech on Zerohedge.
Thing is, who knows how many machine guns are aimed at the ZH servers?
I didn't say it is the fault of Zerohedge.