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Mortgage Applications Have Biggest May Collapse Since Financial Crisis
It seems that the recent rise in interest rates, instead of the typical (pre-depression) behavioral tendency to make people nervous and rush to lock in low rates, has once again stalled any hope of an organic housing recovery occurring. While the reams of hard data show that the housing recovery remains a fast-money investment-driven enigma (here, here, and here) - as opposed to real confidence-driven house-buying; we are still told day after day that housing is the backbone of the economy (despite construction jobs languishing and affordability plunging again). The fact of the matter is that the last 2 weeks have seen mortgage applications plunge at their fastest rate for this time of year (a typically busy time) since the financial crisis began. But that doesn't matter because housing must be recovering because the homebuilder ETF is up 2% today...
January and February we saw the rate rises (blue line dropping) spark a renewed (more behaviorally normal) interest in locking in low rates and buying... but since then the relationshio has invferted once again as the Bernanke put on bonds has now found its way into the real world. The last 2 weeks have seen rates rise and mortgage apps plunge...
at the fastest rate for this time of year since the crisis began...
What could possibly go wrong?
Charts: Bloomberg
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US consumer now has the DV01 sensitivity of an IR swap trader.
Thanks Ben.
BULLISH !!
Buy the coming dip?
Booming and recovering economy.
what caused the markets to dive at 10:30am? bond, gold, oil, indexes...
All Ben's fault. Look back on the story history here just a few hours -- there's multiple stories on Ben's speaking driving algos wild.
Don't tell me they were having a Ben-gasm.
Oh no, I'm about to Catch The Vapors.
I'm sure apps are down because of the good weather
Mortgage purchase applications have remained in a rut since 2010. Doesn't match up with house price increases. FAIL! See this guy's charts.
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/existing-home-sales-rise-0-6-in-april-mortgage-applications-fall-bs-bernanke-speaks/
My mom said I should buy a house because interest rates are starting to go back up and I should lock in a low rate. I told her one, they will not go up and two, if they do the price of the house will plummet, blank stare....
I'd be giving you a blank stare too. Interest rates jumped 200 bps today, so yeah, they are going up; the ass shot out of their chair at the mere mention of tapering.
Interest rate hikes are tied to inflation. Inflation raises the asset-based valuations such as home values and building materials.
Not only are you going to be paying a higher interest rate, you'll also be paying more for your home.
There are many people here that believe in "the major crash" becasue of the FIAT and departation of currency value through expatriation and hard commodity backings. I tend to agree with them but check this out --
What Tyler and many people (who wish to learn) have been discovering is that there are macro-mechanisms in place that prevent "the major crash" at least for now, and that America's economy is recovering faster than crashed euro economies. I use the word "recovering" with tongue in cheek because there is more than enough data and charts showing that recovery is a 'cooking of the books' and a fabrication fueled by manipulation of markets.
It doesn't change the fact of the reality that we exist in. You're probably paying $200 more a month in rent than you would for a mortgage for a better home, because rent indices have been jacked with bank lending restrictions and tighening caused by investor interest and TARP funds.
That, or your mom is telling you to buy a home becuase you're living in her basement.
By the way, India Pale Ale is a shitty style of beer. It's over hopped and only fake beer aficiandos and hop-heads drink it because 'it puts hair on your chest.'
Agree to disagree about the beer.
If wages were increasing with inflation/interest rates, higher interest rates would not necessarily mean lower asset prices. The amount of money a normal person has to spend on a monthly payment does not necessary increase as interest rates increase, do how can the asset price increase?
Is that a statement or a question? Either way, I have no idea what you just said.
Thank you for the beer critique.
they just hiked PMI to crazy levels.. refi's will probably stall to a halt with the new rules (something like 11years for non-FHA and full duration of the loan for FHAs)
PMI is one of the few market forces still at work in the residential RE market. If this "recovery" was real why are the mortgage insurers leveleling up for anticipated losses?
It's low rate compensation for risk factor. They aren't "leveleling up" <-- (whatever that is) for anticipated losses. This isn't a video game. It's economics.
I think you're confused with PMI and FHA's MI.
PMI is Private mortgage insurance -- it's a lender-friendly policy through Radian or RMIC or any other insurance corporation to protect the lender in the case of default. The margins on PMI haven't changed in realtion to their guarantee coverages.
Now, FHA has hiked their Ginnie enforced mandatory MI, as well as the UFMIP -- is that what you're talking about?
Lot of ignorance in here.
"You're probably paying $200 more a month in rent than you would for a mortgage for a better home"
How can you make such a statement with anything close to accuracy? SFH own/rent metrics vary WILDLY from region to region. Not to mention the risk of locking yourself into any property in this job market. You over simplify qwuite a bit.
This was quoted from the FRB news release on market conditions regarding rent to mortgage ratios across the US.
Armchair pundits and thread critics can throw any statment through a vernacular shredder. Reality is what it is folks, stop fighting it.
30 year fixed mortgage on a $200,000 home PITI @ 3.5% -- ostensibly $1100.00
Rent on a 4 bedroom 2 bath home at $200,000 in median market $1325.00
$200K for a 4 bedroom 2 bath house!!!!! come on dude, you're killing me here! i couldn't get a studio condo for that!
Blame the good weather. Everyone is at the park with their dogs when they should be applying for mortgages.
Rates need to be MOAR LOWER...come on Ben, don't be so CHEAP!!
Easy fix for housing, push 30 year mortgage rates to -2% and let it pay itself off. Leaves a lot of extra muney to buy ishit.
Bullish!
Rates went up like .5% or something like that. It's still at around lifetime lows. And THAT is enough to crash the market?
I guess folks really are that financially strapped.
People buy payments. Not houses.
A collective voice of no confidence in the economy due to lack of price discovery. No one wants Debt, no one wants to speculate. However IMO equity will always be equity and income properties purchased with 100% cash and in locations with secure incomes are the only play, and there's not much of that to go around - until the foreclosures spill into the retail market. "Investment Companies" can lap up houses en masse with cheap money however who do they sell to, if the average would-be buyer has neither salary security nor faith in price stability?
I wonder what derivatives are based on the continuous flow of MBS.
I'll speculate.
I speculate that my ammunition investment, though maybe a bit cheaper tomorrow, will have infinite value in the macro.
IMO that's an investment, not a speculation.
Isn't speculation, investments? If not realistically defined as "above margines"?
Allow me to define "infinite value". Anything you'd gladly give your entire life's accumulation of wealth for, immediately.
"A horse, a horse...my kingdom for a box of ammo"
I speculate that my ammunition investment, though maybe a bit cheaper tomorrow, will have infinite value in the macro.
You will WIN large on that,now that the DOD, has ordered all scrap milbrass shredded and sold to China(at a LOSS!).NO more of the three or four most popular cases of once fired avail at less than 30-40% of new cost, will cause the reloaders, of remanufactured ammo either out of business,or their cost to go up 2-3x's.
You know what that translates into OTC prices.$65.00 for .22LR bricks is the NEW price.Bama got his crap stopped for now, and he is end arounding it(Clitton did the same thing, and Congress stopped that).
Rates went up like .5% or something like that. It's still at around lifetime lows. And THAT is enough to crash the market?
I guess folks really are that financially strapped.
People buy payments. Not houses.
EXACTLY, when I was a kid MANY moons ago rates were 4%.Problem now is cost of new houses(and taxes/utilities/etc), and potential loss of employment IF you are still employed.I do not see how anyone (in the current climate),would dare to buy.
The Japanese are having a well concealed effect on the 10 year bond and consequent mortgage rates.
Ben doesn't want to start tensions with them, but he's going to have to.
fkin funny crashisoptomistic.
This would be because 75% of the people buying the homes aren't getting a mortgage. When you pay cash, you don't need a loan.
Cashing out a 401k to buy that hot Vegas property you buddy flipped for a $20k profit doesn't take a mortgage either.
Somebody at Fannie better get working on a new loan sceme to get the bag holders into the properties quick.
Don't they have the technology to print more applications?
Because they're all buying two new cars now!
"People buy payments. Not houses."
Actually they sign a contract agreeing to open their pockets to taxing bodies.
Real estate isn't an investment but a promise of endless transfer payments to muni and school workers, etc.
The promise of endless transfter payments comes from just living in any place in the US that has a government and school system (everywhere in the US). It's not a function of owning / investing in the real estate, it's a function of living in it.
I own investment properties. I don't pay the muni and school workers, my tenants do (although those payments do go through me).
Where I live, I pay the muni and school workers; and that would be true whether I rented or owned.
But i was told that my house was an investment. i bought in the early stages of the bubble in 2001 for 300k. At it's peak, my neighbors were buying in for 500k. Now they are trying to get out at 400 if they are lucky. But here is what happened to me
I financed 200k over 14 years (i'm done late this year cuz i paid extra) at 4.25%= 65608 in interest
Taxes started out 5k and moved to 9k so lets average it 7k for 14 years = 98000.00
new roof = 4000
new water heater furnace = 4000
plumbing over the years = 5000
landscaping/ gardening/ lawn/ equipment / pesticides/ misc over 14 years = 10000
Painting/ remodeling kitchen and bathroom over the years = 10000
so
current value 370000
purchase price 300000
gain 70000
costs 196608
net result (126608)
ANd i'm a lucky one who is still above purchase price.
What would it cost to rent your place? Any tax deductions come with that house?
It's true. To look at the home you live in as investment is to not see reality.
A house is an asset, to be sure.
If the house is generating you positive income (like a rental property) then it is an investment.
If it is costing you money to own then it is an expense, just like your cable bill, electric bill and all other living expenses.
It is a shame that so many people think they live in an investment.
I agree that your primary residence should not be thought of in terms of an investment, but rather as an asset with various associated costs and liabilities. As an asset, it can go up or down in price in response to many factors.
This issue is not that people think they are living in an "investment," but rather that they were led to believe this particular "investment" never went down in value. That is the scam - not that it is an investment.
A stock broker who made that claim would be sued, lose his license, and be barred for making such claims (though many tried to imply this in the stock gogo years), and yet, the real estate business did this for years and, so far, with impunity.
One of the necessary components of a scam is reasonable reliance... I think it's patently unreasonable to expect an asset to increase in value in perpetuity... ergo, the reliance on this feature of homeownership is not a scam...
If it was something more than puffing, then homeowners ought to have plenty of ammo to sue their originators... someone's got to pay the difference between present market value and the proposed appreciation.
If it is costing you money to own then it is an expense, just like your cable bill, electric bill and all other living expenses.
It is a shame that so many people think they live in an investment.
This is true whether renting of owning,the only difference is you can walk the lease at the end of the agreement.(and renting is just paying off someone elses note).
Or, you paid $753.62 per month, which is far less than comparable rent, I would assume, so not a bad choice to buy. Of course, you could further back out the value of your time to arrange or perform the repairs, as this would have been handled by the landlord if you had rented. On the other hand, now that you are no longer paying interest, the monthly value of your imputed rent is decreasing as long as you stay in it. (BTW, your tax increases have been outrageous. You need to run some politicians out of town).
And so what if people told you that a home was an "investment." Were you or are you so naieve to think investments never go down in value? I bet you listen to your stockbroker, too.
But you have to pay the $300,000, which is a down payment of $100,000 and $1500 a month for the loan, plus another $580 a month for taxes. You have to sell the house at $370k to realize the $753 / month. Prices in my area and others were already elevated in 2001 and we haven't even seen the bottom in housing yet. We currently have housing bubble 2.0 thanks to Ben, but when the punch bowl gets taken away, prices will fall again.
True, but you have to live somewhere, and you pay this if you rent, too.
Avalanche!
Even though new mortgage apps crashed and existing home sales are at the level achieved in 2002, the housing recovery meme dies hard.
http://dareconomics.wordpress.com/2013/05/22/around-the-globe-05-22-2013/
But I thought that stocks, housing, and bonds rise to infinity, and, even as they do so, they become more affordable.
Was I mistaken?
the bankers will now take another bonus from petty cash
The question is what happens if there are no more MBS for the Fed to buy? An unanticipated end to QE due to lack of supply?
I just spoke to a patient yesterday that writes mortgages for a large local bank. She said it is almost impossible to get people approved these days. They are even starting to overlook certain financial issues of some just so they can approve and get some paper moving. Me thinks this problem is not over folks.
Over? It hasn't even started yet. 2008 was a walk in the park compared to what is ahead.
Anyone that has a lot of housing inventory on their balance sheet is in a bit of a quandry about increasing lending standards... On the one hand you want to stop the bleeding, but on the other hand you want to keep all your limbs.
Yes she also confirmed all the shadow inventory that is in foreclosue or should be in foreclosure. Many families living in homes they shouldn't be if they have a pulse, can keep the lawn mowed, and throw a few bucks at the bank every once in a while. True shit.
You mean MOAR Liar's Loans? What could possibly go wrong with that?
Who is this author? Reads like George Washington, not the Tylers.
And so when was the last time you read any George Washington?
The housing market is barely crawling in my area. At the end of 2012 I thought there may actually be a turnaround...but no...dead as a doornail. Only if they reduce the price 30% below list does a buyer/investor/Flipper/speculator or whatever take a peek.
Your post means nothing without a location.
Over 90% of buyers in Kihei, Maui are Canadians now.
Let that stat sink in when thinking of the massive RE bubble that exists in Canada.
Well, there are worse places to own a house... really nice place... and a nice spot to hang out when the hosers get cold... when it warms back up, head back to the tundra eh
Yes, it is a great place but most of my friends who own there see the writing on the wall when Canada goes tits up. The Canucks do not see it coming, much like the Californians never saw it coming in 2005-2007. It will be 2008 again, only worse. Tourism will get killed too as Canucks make up 60-70% of tourists in Kihei now.
I know I always comment on this whenever we discuss Hawaii (I really do love the place, especially Kauai), but it's completely crazy what the RE appreciation has done to the local/native populations... Reminds me of indian reservations or something... oh, you can't afford $30/meal? $7/gallon gas? A $500,000 house too small to take a shit in? Pretty wild... I can see why they might be resentful... I suspect that many of the hosers will get yokeled before this thing is over (much like the wallstreet and chinese money that's pumping into america's heartland farms, aka where I'm located).
Plenty of the locals depend on food stamps, welfare or other gov't aid.
And the public schools there are horrible. 49th in the US ahead of only Mississippi. It's sad.
Couldn't agree more. I live in Toronto. Selling my cottage right now for $300k because I want to get out before things get real. Heard a few stories from my friends. Homes in Toronto get sold for over $1M in less than a day on the market. Houses in the cottage country that used to be on the market for months before selling now go in days. A cottage on a street next to mine was sold in 2 days for $300k as well (less than 1,000 sq.ft). Another friend bought a house in Barrie (100 km from Toronto, a town with no jobs and low incomes) for 190k in 2009. A house next to hers was sold for $400k last year, fixed up and re-sold a few weeks ago for $792k. How's that for a bubble?!
Couldn't agree more. I live in Toronto. Selling my cottage right now for $300k because I want to get out before things get real. Heard a few stories from my friends. Homes in Toronto get sold for over $1M in less than a day on the market. Houses in the cottage country that used to be on the market for months before selling now go in days. A cottage on a street next to mine was sold in 2 days for $300k as well (less than 1,000 sq.ft). Another friend bought a house in Barrie (100 km from Toronto, a town with no jobs and low incomes) for 190k in 2009. A house next to hers was sold for $400k last year, fixed up and re-sold a few weeks ago for $792k. How's that for a bubble?!
Canada has been dodging the big one for a while,your fates are going to look exactly like the US did in '08, except 10x's worse.
Biggest problem here on ZH is that when the data suits it is accurate and unmanipulated (case in point above), when it doesn't suit, then the data can't be trusted from the Ministry of Illusory Yarn spinning. This like everything else from the government needs to be taken with a salt mine of salt. Let's just call it bad weather and Mother's Day and be done with it.
If the 30 year fixed rate gets even back to 5%, I think mortgage applications will drop to damn near zero. Quite possibly lowest in history.
Which is fucking crazy considering the difference between 4.5% and 5.0% on a $175,000 loan is only ~$50/month. I'm thinking there is another explanation...
MM, indeed there is "another explanation", and that's the one nobody wants to hear.
The difference is $63. Especially in the 175k price range, that can make or break a budget. Now, for a 300k+ house, probably not.
You forgot the sarc tags...
You'll have 2 situations;
A) everyone in the country who could have refi'ed has done it. So a move above 4.5% will send refi's literally to zero. None. Zilch. It might put mortgage brokers out of buisness and will kill bank earnings.
B) While yes.. a 0.5% move in rates won't kill anyone in any price range... moving from 3.75% (now).. to 5% is a 1.25% move. That will change your price range you're looking at. Especially at the upper end... if you were looking at 550K w/ 3.75%... you're looking at 475k at 5%. End result, you are looking at houses that aren't as nice as the ones you were looking at before. That could be enough for many to just decide to hold off and hope rates fall again. Meanwhile, that will kill sales, kill mortgage apps, and start to slowly bring prices back down again.
Flippers will get slaughtered if rates move fast.
More and more printing until the US dollar sinks to constant historic lows.
Like the equities going up daily, the US dollar sinks daily lows. It's coming.
Maybe people don't want a fuckin ball and chain mortage around their necks along with taxes and maint.
XTC: Save us from the ball and chain!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtJPyeiUjk8
One of my company's businesses is doing property verifications in 15 counties for Home Equity Loans. February thorugh late April we were averaging 125/month. So far in May we've done less than 50, a 50% drop.
This bodes bad for the economy, because HE loans are what fuel start up businesses. Long gone are the days when you'd have a plan and go to NCNB with your CPA to get a $50k loan secured by your assets. Today you're told to do a HE loan, period.
I see these very often in refis as well. Self-employed small business owners not even necessarily underwater but mortgaged to the hilt and stuck.
A house was never a decent investment. It was only the Boomer generation that conned themselves into thinking so. My Dad's good advice when I left college was to buy a house I could readily afford, IF I would enjoy being a homeower (which I do). Things like landscaping, entertaining, gardening, working on cars, etc. So I did. But I'm sure I never made much money compared to renting. But I got what I wanted which wasn't monetary.
Boomers still have to learn this the hard way.
One thing I really don't understand: I have a friend who is a Residential RE Appraiser here in So Cal, and he's busier than ever. Works night and day and has more work than he can possibly handle, and has been at this pace for many months now. Never sleeps, works all night long on reports and all day out doing inspections...how can it be, if things are so slow? Is he lying to me? I must admit (on here, not to him) that I'm a bit jealous, he has been raking in cash like there's no tomorrow for so long it's hard to believe. Makes me wish I'd gotten in as an appraiser a couple of years ago. CA is making the barriers to becoming an appraiser harder and harder as the years go on, now you're going to have to have a college degree (not joking) to get an appraiser's license in this state. He got in about four or five years ago when it was much easier, now it's nearly impossible.
I'd just like to know WTF is going on, I keep reading how things are slowing down and he stays busier than ever. And it sure seems to be true, he never gets enough sleep and looks like hell, but has plenty of cash rolling in...
Your friend has too much work. You are jealous of his income. How about..... he takes you on as an assistant!?
I actually thought about that, but he already has a couple of members of his family (son, daughter in law) working for him. So I think that's out. If it wasn't for that, he probably would have me working for him. But this still doesn't answer the question, how is it that he's busier than ever when supposedly mortgage apps are falling like a rock - if this headline is to be believed? Perception doesn't match up with reality. So I just don't know what to believe at this point.
Cash deals may still require appraisals in the purchase contract. There has been a huge pop in those. CA is one of the buble markets so a spike in purchases there isn't too surprising. Particularly if you live in one of the bubbliest cities. Also the high barrier for entry and the huge amount of job loss from 2008 to present for appraisaers could be affecting the number of appraisers out there to handle that workload. I posted just above you in this thread about the mortgage company I work with, staff is cut to the bone and they just prefer to work everyone to death. I know appraisers are usually self employed or at least 1099 it seems, so there might have been quite a few of them that didn't weather the horrible years.
KC, you could be right. Makes sense. Don't know about cash deals requiring an appraisal, though. I bought my house all cash back in 2010 and there was no requirement for one, it was up to me if I wanted to pay for an appraisal or not. It was a way under market trashed REO, so I didn't feel I needed one. I also got in on the $8K rebate for buying at the right time. I'm in the Inland Empire area of So Cal, and things here are hot with very low inventory and prices rising fairly quickly. The appraiser I'm speaking of goes all over So Cal, though, anywhere there's work. He's doing independent appraisals as well as 1099 work, and cash is rolling in in buckefuls.
He just got into appraising around 2007-08 time frame, taking a online course with no prior experience, pretty unbelievable that he's gone from zero income to making (at times) $5K a week or more.
He got very lucky to get in when the requirements were much more lax, they've made it very difficult now for anyone new to get in. He's a friend of mine, so when I say I'm jealous, I'm not upset about it, I'm actually happy for him. I just think I should have followed along and done the same, pretty much too late now for that.
Feast or famine and it only pays off if you're the last man standing in your area. The way VA appraisals are assigned is pretty close to racketeering as well. If we really are looking at another investor bubble causing another crash I would (and do) want to be as far away from the real estate sector as I could. I've noticed there's an odd taint to working in mortgages, employers don't think those work skills are transferable to any roles outside of mortgages. I can somewhat understand that bias considering I have never met people that know less about their own industry (and how it really works) than folks in real estate. Realtors are the worst (prices only go up right? no idea about build quality/construction methods, they sell houses without knowing shit about actual houses, most of them can't negotiate worth a damn anyway), Loan Officers run a close second (they don't fully understand the loan programs they sell, they tend to drive loans to whatever lender is in their ear at the moment without regard to customer benefit, they're salespeople selling a financial product that they know fuck-all about, how it's securitized how we recapitalize, etc). Appraisers seem to be the most switched on of the trifecta, but their focus is so narrow (namely just home values) that it's fairly hard for them to fuck up. They are probably under the most pressure (from realtors, borrowers, and LOs)to morally compromise themselves.
KC, since they changed the rules, appraisers are under less stress to "hit the numbers" because of the introduction of AMCs (appraisal management companies) that act as a middleman between the broker/agent/buyer and mortgage company. What happened before this change - the field was rife with abuse, and was one of the primary causes of the mortgage meltdown in 2008 or so.
However, my friend has placed himself on both sides by starting his own AMC! So he can farm all the work assigned to the AMC directly to him! If that sounds vaguely unethical, you're not alone. I have no idea if that's legal or not, but sounds fishy to me. I'm not going to report him (the AMC is under his son's name, anyway, so it's hard to prove conflict of interest) but he's pretty driven to cash in on the current madness. And cashing in, in spades, is what he's doing! May as well make hay while the sun shines, I suppose. Who knows how long this current craze will last?
I agree with you, I think we're headed for another crash, but how soon is anyone's guess. I think anyone in the industry would want to get out before it all comes crashing down around their ears. I don't think we're quite there yet. I called the last one nearly on the nose, sold my previous home the same month prices peaked here in this area (Sept 2006) and doubled my money on the sale. Sat out the crash and rebought in 2010 with the cash from the previous sale. So basically I got this home for nearly zero of my own cash, it was nearly all profit from the previous sale. Was able to move up into a much newer, nicer area and city, and larger home with a rental out back. So I'm watching this one closely, if it doubles what I paid in 2010 I may cash out and do the same thing again. YMMV.
I'm just a lowly worker at a mid-sized local mortgage company. Of course I've held a position about 4 steps up the totem pole from where I am now but the financial correction kicked my ass. I've been trying ever since to get out of this industry with no real luck. In any case, I have repeatedly waved this flag directly to the owners of this company and they just don't give a flying fuck. Namely this company focuses on refinances with even the majority of those being rate/term. They don't understand that here in Missouri there is a finite supply of mortgages out there that a) are not underwater AND b) have a high enough interest rate where the customer is motivated to refinance anyway. There is very little equity so there are very few cash-out refis out there (relatively speaking).
So... on a whim I did a bit of research and calculations. It doesn't look good. Even with rates staying completely flat for the next 2 years we theoretically run out of people to refi by early 2015. Though that's bullshit too considering companies (namely this one) will start folding when eligible mortgages become more and more rare (even a reduction of elgilble inventory by 50% would be catastrophic for refi shops). I have made a litany of recommendations for a change of focus to replace falling revenue/volume and their response has ranged from completely ignoring to actually telling me that my suggestions would certainly make more money, but they'll never do it (they actually said this).
Most states have some sort of net tangible benefit law where an originator must prove that the new mortgage is an improvement. For the most part this requirement is usually a 5% reduction in monthly payment. Some states even go as far to consider "recapture" of closing costs, that seems to be around 72 months. I wouldn't ever remotely consider refinancing if I faced those sort of numbers but...Here's the scary thing: we are frequently running into customers that can't get past this criteria even if they're dropping their interest rate by a full point. They have refinanced over and over all the way down the falling rate curve and they have nothing left.
In short, anyone in St. Louis hiring?
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I love bootzondaground people like you.
Well, why don't you take your ideas and beat'em at their own game?
Otherwize, good luck to ya guy. Great info.
•J•
V-V
Glad I got my parents to sell their SoCal house they owned for 30 years. Escrow closed two weeks ago. sold it way over asking. Got their equity out before the mini bubble popped only one way for interest rates to go up.
Over-hoppered compared to what, exactly, son? What's a good beer? Remember, every molecule of the worthiness of your forgoing comments hinges on a good Answer. Not much worth less than an armchair critic. Beer being water malt and hops plus yeast, my guess is you like malt better than hops.
Ok. Here's your purple heart. Side note, most houses, which are built of pine, gypsum, and crappy tar products, are not getting better with time. They're all the current building inspectors understand, but they SUCK GAS to stay warm. A house that can be farted out of a nozzle for 300 bucks worth of building materials is coming, it will be built by a computer in less than a day. It will boast a near perfect efficiency coefficient, and look like a million bucks.
Mirror Pond Pale Ale (Go Deschutes!), Lagunitas IPA (a most excellent,refreshing beverage), Ninkasai Total Domination...
What say you?