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Guest Post: One Experience That Really Shaped My Thinking

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

Years ago as a young intelligence officer, I served a stint in Saudi Arabia running a team of counter-terrorism analysts and agents.

We used to have regular “threat working groups,” a fancy way of saying we would get together at the US Embassy for meetings with the embassy staff, local NSA operators, and CIA operatives working in the country under official cover.

The tone of the meetings was always the same – looking at various reports and figuring out which intelligence was credible.

It seemed like every week we would hear about some terrorist with a suitcase-sized bomb, and the bureaucrats would dive into a lively debate about whether or not to evacuate the Americans.

One day, I remember, my friend who was the senior ranking non-commissioned officer interrupted and said, “What about the Swedes?”

Silence. You could have heard a pin drop.

An embassy official looked at him, puzzled. “Sergeant?”

“What about the Swedes? Do we evacuate the Swedes too?”

The embassy staff looked at each other, shrugged a bit, “Oh sure, sure, we’ll coordinate with Washington on that.” And the discussion continued.

“What about the Saudis?”

Silence again. And then he really made his point. “It’s not just about Americans, you know. Their blood is worth something too.”

I’ll never forget it. It was formative for me. But for the government bureaucrats, it was as if he were speaking Greek. They just didn’t understand the concept.

It’s so commonplace… and one of the more unfortunate aspects of humanity. We group ourselves, defining each other by irrelevant things like nationality or the color of our passports.

The modern nation state has only served to reinforce this purpose. The flag waving and bombastic patriotism drive a sentiment that other peoples are less important– that their lives are worth less than our lives… as if we’re not all human beings.

To give you a harsh example, former British Prime Minister David Lloyd George was a vocal opponent of Geneva Convention restrictions to prevent British planes from bombing certain civilian targets.

He had a long history of this, having dropped 97 tonnes of bombs and fired 183,861 rounds on Iraqi civilians in a 1920 revolt against British occupation.

According to his wife in later memoirs, George opposed any such restrictions because he wanted to “reserve the right. . . to bomb niggers!”

Though such language is intellectually appalling today, very little has changed in this sentiment: our lives are worth more than other people’s.

President Obama really drove this point home in a speech yesterday which passionately defended US drone strikes– something the White House calls “necessary, legal, and just.”

Now, it’s possible that I’ve seen a more intellectually disingenuous speech in my life. But I really can’t remember when.

As the President stated, the drone strikes are “effective” and have “saved lives.”

So says the Nobel Peace Prize recipient. But I imagine there are a number of dead civilians who would take issue with his assertion if they could.

By “saved lives,” he obviously meant “American lives”. Of course, we’ll never know since they don’t release any information and we’re all just supposed to take the government’s word without question.

I don’t. Having once been inside the machine, I know that there is zero certainty in the intelligence business... which makes the whole calculus morally reprehensible.

My dictionary defines the word sociopath as “a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.”

I think the shoe fits. At a minimum, this policy… this strategy… is sociopathic. It demonstrates a lack of conscience for the value of innocent life overseas and is another massive moral stain on the politicians who lord over the Land of the Free.

 

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Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:40 | 3597344 Rattling Bones
Rattling Bones's picture

This is written as if Obama values American blood over others; he doesn't.

 

Obama only cares about Obama's blood.

 

Benghazi proved that.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:48 | 3597377 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

if the Swedes (or anyone else) are helping us, then fine. Otherwise, fuck them. They can spend some of their money on their own peeps security instead of importing rioting Muslims and giving them lifelong welfare.  

Nothing sets priorities straight like pain or suffering.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:56 | 3597397 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Silence is golden.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:31 | 3597703 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

It's the same dilemma every super power faces before collapsing.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:36 | 3597595 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Hmmm...

 

Take the day

And walk around

Watch the Nazis

Burn your town

Then go home

And check yourself

You think we're singin' 'bout someone else

-- Frank Zappa and the Mothers

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:23 | 3597892 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

Speaking of Zappa ...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=girnJH7tvpM

 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 02:09 | 3597986 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

I see Mad magazine has come out with The Drone Ranger

 

http://www.madmagazine.com/blog/2013/05/23/barack-obama-the-drone-ranger

 

 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:48 | 3598221 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Plastic people, oh , baby, now you're such a drag.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 13:47 | 3598516 Seeking Aphids
Seeking Aphids's picture

Esp if it is someone else's pain and suffering, right D? Btw, are you sure the 'us' includes you? That could easily change you know........maybe already has.......

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:59 | 3597404 max2205
max2205's picture

Like jobs saved...what bullshit spin

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:39 | 3597355 nantucket
nantucket's picture

yea, i want the govt i pay taxes for to prioritize the people that it's supposed to represent.  that doesn't mean kill others with no reason or justification, but sometimes tough decisions must be made.  don't kid yourself, other governments aren't operated by angels or people so noble they wouldn't do the same thing.  it is what it is.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:43 | 3597366 blueRidgeBoy
blueRidgeBoy's picture

and to advocate otherwise would subject oneself to accusations of neoconservatism.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:40 | 3597501 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

When the criminals of government come for you, remember that it was a "tough decision."

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 12:07 | 3598369 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

Thats really the point is when govt goes rogue. So now you wittingly put yourself in a precarious situation and you hope or expect me bail you out. There has and always been fighting for survival so pick your friends very carfully and pick your battles.
,;)
Theres a game of russian roulette(life), you're appalled, are you gonna run over and take one for the team(blood).

The so called moral to the story simon gives is a trap. Every situation is different so are people just like sweedes and saudis.

Thia same trap has been used by the religious zealots to control the populations since eve ate the apple. Adam didn't stop her right

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:47 | 3597614 TotalCarp
TotalCarp's picture

Sorry i dont get it why you are getting down arrowed. This article is self righteous bullshit. I am very much with you on this. You pay taxes to your govt and expect services. Sweedes can be saved by sweedes. If not then the Sweedish govt can pay dues to US to protection its citizens.

US has shouldered an untold burden that Ron Paul has been rightly screaming about for years - US taxpayer extends its protection umbrella to way too many little "friends" that only whinge in UN and are utterly ungrateful. If Sweedish/Thai/Congolese govts want their citizens to be evacuated by US marines from danger zone, they need to pay up.

Its called market economy bitches

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 23:05 | 3597774 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

I can tell you why i down voted you:

 

You suggested that US Marines be sold out as mercs.

 -1 for you

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:24 | 3597894 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Read Smedley Butler (two-time medal of honor Marine) book "War is a Racket".

We are mercs. And always will be.  All wars are fought for money. Therefore, all participants are mercs.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:44 | 3597912 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

I gave you a thumbs up before realizing that you were totally OK with this. That book wasn't stating an ugly truth we need to live with, it was about reform and ending the spilling of the blood of POOR american boys to further enrich the avaracious old rich men who run the country. You missed the entire point of that book.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:56 | 3598225 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

.

You missed the entire point of that book.

+1 for being right on the money.

Anyone that is OK with the US being an empire of dickheaded assholiness is, clearly, an asshole dickhead.

BTW, you can always fo back and change a thumbs up to a thumbs down, and vice versa.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 16:01 | 3600023 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

I agree except, solders are either mercs, paid to willingly steal and kill for the the benefit of the elite, or slaves conscripted to steal and kill or be killed for the benefit of the elite.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 14:12 | 3598555 dog breath
dog breath's picture

You are confusing a US soldier's reason to fight a war versus the federal government's reason to fight a war as I believe the commentor above was implying.  History books are filled with the common demoninator that war is used to control business; be it resource or trade.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 23:36 | 3597834 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

And when the U.S. embassy was overrun in Tehran, there would have been a few more hostages if not for Canadian embassy officials that cared for more than themselves.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:25 | 3597897 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Canada is our ALLY. And a dues paying NATO member. Compare that to Sweden? What the fuck?

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:45 | 3597913 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Living up to your name more with every post.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 08:27 | 3598141 blueRidgeBoy
blueRidgeBoy's picture

don't take it so hard, TotalCarp, ZH readers always want it both ways: they bitch when the US intervenes (Jews!  Neocons! world cops!) and when we don't (famine! drought! foreign national evacuations!).  Here's the key: if the US does it, it's immoral and most likely the result of Zionist conspiracy.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 08:27 | 3598142 blueRidgeBoy
blueRidgeBoy's picture

don't take it so hard, TotalCarp, ZH readers always want it both ways: they bitch when the US intervenes (Jews!  Neocons! world cops!) and when we don't (famine! drought! foreign national evacuations!).  Here's the key: if the US does it, it's immoral and most likely the result of Zionist conspiracy.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:40 | 3598206 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

shouldered the "burden" of imperialism? poor babies

and currency control is not a "market economy"

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:27 | 3598253 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

Totalcarp, the Thais kicked the US out of their country back in 1975 because they got tired of our BS.  They have been safer ever since.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 13:22 | 3598477 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"You pay taxes to your govt and expect services."

I don't want a fucking thing from this government.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 15:53 | 3600013 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

You do not "pay" taxes. Taxes are taken from you. Try not "paying" your taxes.

Government is a con, a scam, by a group of parasites living off of other people's labor and product and only "produces" destruction--theft and death.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 01:53 | 3597977 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Yeah. It's murder. It is what it is.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:11 | 3598177 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

This government must be disarmed.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:45 | 3597369 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Obama is the "Black Bush". How could he be anything else?  Go off script in the White House and you join Jack Kennedy. You can book that!

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:52 | 3597386 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

"Vetted" = "Firmly under our control"

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:05 | 3597418 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Vetted = we have blackmail material regarding your NAMBLA ties

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:29 | 3598196 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

My NAMBLA ties have regimental stripes and are 100% silk.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:33 | 3597485 duo
duo's picture

Jack Burton from Mish's old comments session?

I thought I saw James Cole here yesterday.

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:53 | 3597631 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I am THE James Cole from Mish's! I started with Mish as Jack Burton then switched to James Cole for a long time. When that board went south, I moved here and took back Jack Burton. The James_Cole here has the little line between names.

Who were you over at Mish's?? Damn that was a good board back in 2008-9 wasn't it. Smoking hot posts.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:55 | 3597637 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Remember I always used the pretty girls or film stars as avatar. Just like here on ZH.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:07 | 3598238 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

+1 for Scarlett

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 06:51 | 3598073 duo
duo's picture

I was Opticsguy back then.  Still am over at TFMR.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:23 | 3598186 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Do they still get all excited about posting first over there?

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 12:06 | 3598366 e-recep
e-recep's picture

no, thirdson and blackswan left, too. creditcrumbs should be hanging around here with a different moniker. fedwatcher for some reason never posts here at ZH.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:47 | 3597611 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Go off script in the White House and you join Jack Kennedy."

You mean a 'lone nut' takes a shot at ya? /sarc

Michael Parenti gave a lecture on the JFK conspiracy and pointed out that a 'journalist' writing an editorial  -- following the House Select Comm. finding that the JFK assasination was likely a conspiracy -- actually suggested, paraphrasing "that it's not completely impossible that two lone nuts were attempting to kill JFK at the same time."

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:58 | 3597640 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

If one lone nut was Oswald, the other lone nut was LBJ.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:12 | 3597664 GAAP is crap
GAAP is crap's picture

ah, the Cui Bono argument.  works for me.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:35 | 3598202 logicalman
logicalman's picture

This may have been a factor too.

President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury."

http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm

We know how the banksters work, don't we.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:48 | 3597919 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

That this is even up for debate anymore says more about why this country has gone downhill than almost any other data point. If you don't accept that shadowy forces dominate our government and snuff out ANY and all who step outside that or by who's death wealth or power might be gained you just don't get it AT ALL.

Thumbs up bro.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:35 | 3598262 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

Ignatius,

I don't believe in conspiracies. But, why would JFK "need" to visit Texas a whole year before the election. Voters are not exactly know for their long memories.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 18:53 | 3600248 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"I don't believe in 'conspiracy theories', except the ones that are true."

The history of modern use of the phrase 'conspiracy theory' as a pejorative dates to an April 1, 1967 CIA memo.  The subject of the memo was how to combat the rising public skepticism over the JFK assasination.  The phrase was hardly used before this memo, but after became a common corporate media put-down of alternative explanations for major events.

Look it up.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:46 | 3597372 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

The house of saud is all that's holding the petrodollar standard together.

Bow lower fella!

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:18 | 3597567 James
James's picture

"The house of saud is all that's holding the petrodollar standard together."

 

And the House of Saud recently made agreements W/China for Oil and............................................

Saudi oil wells are currently pumping a considerable amount of water.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 12:15 | 3598380 e-recep
e-recep's picture

it's the gun that's pointed to the head of the house of saud that's holding petrodollar standard together.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:49 | 3597381 q99x2
q99x2's picture

He didn't mean American lives he meant globalists lives.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:52 | 3597388 RottenAlpha
RottenAlpha's picture
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:25 | 3597581 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

how did you do that

my menu shows

B I U ABC = = = = = = = oo U x2 x2 " HTML _ ? --- \/

 

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:57 | 3597399 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

When Simon Black was in middle school, his English teacher assigned an essay: "What is courage?" He received an A+ for turning in a blank page with only his name at the top.


Once a cobra bit Simon Black's leg. After five days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.

Simon Black can kill two stones with one bird.

Simon Black was once charged with three attempted murders in Boulder County, but the Judge quickly dropped the charges because Simon Black does not "attempt" murder.

Simon Black was once on Celebrity Wheel of Fortune and was the first to spin. The next 29 minutes of the show consisted of everyone standing around awkwardly, waiting for the wheel to stop.

When Simon Black gives you the finger, he's telling you how many seconds you have left to live.

Simon Black can kill your imaginary friends.

Simon Black can build a snowman out of rain.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:09 | 3597433 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

If a kid asks where rain comes from, I think a cute thing to tell him is "Simon Black is crying." And if he asks why Simon Black is crying, another cute thing to tell him is "Probably because of something you did."

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:10 | 3597435 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

"I now know why you cry, but it is something I can never do."

-Uncle Terminator {lowers self into molten steel}

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:28 | 3597474 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

the nice thing about simon black.  he's such an elite, i is a blessing for all of us, that he is allowed to post here and let us all into the 'the real inside' of how things 'work'. 

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:04 | 3597536 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I actually like his posts, but fear not. I will make fun of any and all. 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:17 | 3597449 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

 simon - please tell us about the time that you missed the meeting with the new pope to discuss how to handle the rumors of his recent exorcisms while still having time to be the stand in for the stunts in the new iron man movie while still having time to console angie jolie (i'm not telling brad pitt, ok?), while crossing the swiss border with 40 one ounce eagles to deposit in you usb account?  (stunts for the bond film where done in the alps of course).

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:39 | 3597597 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Did he tried to exorcise Obama? Some Rotschild folk? Bernake?

He might. After all, he's an argentinean.

 

:)

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:19 | 3597455 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

For Simon Black, every zoo is a petting zoo.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:25 | 3598190 Whatta
Whatta's picture

Comets once spelled his name in the heavens.

He is...the most interesting investor alive

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:59 | 3597405 Rastadamus
Rastadamus's picture

American foreign policy is the last bastion of naked racism.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:51 | 3597925 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Really...the last bastion?

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 19:59 | 3597406 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Sickos have taken over American schools..

http://connect.freedomworks.org/news/view/372124?destination=node%2F372124

School Promotes ‘Gender Bender Day’: Boys Dressing as Girls, and Vice Versa – WHY?

Deidri Hernandez’s seven-year-old son won’t be in school today, after officials at Tippecanoe School for the Arts and Humanities confirmed they’re still holding “Switch It Up Day” – a time for students to come dressed as members of the opposite sex.

Hernandez tells EAGnews the day was originally billed as “Gender Bender Day,” but Tippecanoe officials made the name change after she called Principal Jeffrey Krupar to complain.The Milwaukee mother was not impressed.“I didn’t have a problem with the title. I had a problem with the activity taking place,” Hernandez says. She says it’s “ridiculous” and “creepy” to ask elementary boys to come to school dressed as girls, and vice versa, and predicts that having students dress as “transvestites” will distract from the learning process. Hernandez knows of at least one other parent who shares her concerns and plans to hold her child out of class, too.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:26 | 3597471 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Sickos haven't taken control. Fucking look around. We are sick.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:06 | 3597533 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

at the tip e. canoe school of the arts, every day is gender bender day.

girls can bring guns and the boys gotta cook lunch

it better be fuckin good too, or out comes the whip ;~)

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:26 | 3597584 newengland
newengland's picture

Funny. Ta for the chuckle. Life is better with humor. Many a true word spoke in jest.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:04 | 3597407 newengland
newengland's picture

Beautifully observed, Mr Black. However, think deeper. Life is a contest of ideas, and consequences are more harsh for some than others.

A Sergeant knows that his first concern is to get his men back home alive, therefore, he is more inclined to respect individual life, regardless of politics or bureaucrats' calculations.

Inflaming religious or sectarian divides for the profit of corporatists (corrupt Big Brother) places the Sgt's men in greater danger. The 'intelligence' agencies like intellectual conversations. Death is just another concept to them.

Islamists who slayed a British soldier in London this week were known to Mi5, and therefore known to Mi6, but those agencies serve political masters who humour the Islamists, Saudis in particular, and their aim of a Caliphate.

Sweden endures the worst rioting in its history this week among the new immigrants who feel cheated by their homelands, and abandoned by their new lands. So, they too would rather burn the hand that feeds them now, and serve the Wahabbists who only ever enslave them.

The world is a complex place of many people and many belief systems.

I see no reason to sacrifice my troops for the profit of resource grabbing amoral corporatists, Islamist and Nazionists.

My troops because that is my family's tradition, now and ever. Our blood and treasure. 

I am ashamed that the Trilateral Commission and CONgress deliberately waste life of any color or nationality, for their globalist agenda which is failing, and they fear most that those they abused most will kill them, soon.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:05 | 3597421 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

While it's good to see the "sociopath" meme growing, as I've been spewing my own little warning for seven(?) years now about the pathologically self-absorbed being the fundamental problem -- the other part of my warning has been that this personality profile/disorder has now infested a critical mass of places of influence and control...

so we missed the boat...

it would've been much easier to shun this sickness from higher places, had we been paying attention -- said another way:  had a greater collective emotional intelligence.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:15 | 3597444 newengland
newengland's picture

EI is more important, useful and creative  than IQ. Agreed.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:47 | 3597512 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

"EI" is a trait that candy ass chatty-Kathy extroverts assign to themselves to feel good about their failings in the face of objective measurement. IQ is leveraged by the truly intelligent introverts who're focused on Getting Shit Done(tm) and don't have time for all your mutual backslapping bullshit.

Take your made up "EI" and shove it. IQ rules.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:08 | 3597535 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Touched a nerve, eh?

"IQ is leveraged by the truly intelligent introverts who're focused on Getting Shit Done(tm)"

While I said nothing about "IQ," nothing about introverts, nothing about focus or getting shit done,

there are those who voluntarily expose themselves as missing huge pieces of the greater puzzle.
You may be fodder for my argument, but you are certainly no surprise.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 07:29 | 3598097 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

Fuck off, you and your nerve. You're just another hand-waver, all talk. You know I'm right and have nothing to show for it. You wouldn't know a big picture if I handed you a coloring book.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 20:00 | 3598948 11b40
11b40's picture

For some reason (maybe EI), methinks Cabreado would win an IQ match with you.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:11 | 3597541 newengland
newengland's picture

You are ignorant at best; dim witted at worst. Easy political fodder. Typical of the sort that don't care who dies - so long as it is not you.

How's your portfolio doing or are you eating dirt already? Schmuck.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 07:32 | 3598103 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

That's what we call "ad hominem". You know I'm right... EI is subjective bullshit, IQ is based on objective measurements. The only science that any of that EI sociology derived bullcrap can refer back to is "behavior can be changed". Whoop de do, tell us something we don't already know.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 21:45 | 3599064 11b40
11b40's picture

So, you chose to ignore the concepts of right & wrong?

Are intelligence and wisdom the same?

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:17 | 3597564 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq01.htm

Intelligence testing began in earnest in France, when in 1904 psychologist Alfred Binet was commissioned by the French government to find a method to differentiate between children who were intellectually normal and those who were inferior...

However, Binet himself cautioned against misuse of the scale or misunderstanding of its implications...Since, according to Binet, intelligence could not be described as a single score, the use of his IQ as a definite statement on a child's intellectual capability would be a serious mistake.

 

ever hear of the statement "too smart for your own good"?   there ya go. 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:50 | 3597743 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Two modes of human cognition: socializing/mentalistic and systemizing/mechanistic.

http://www.thegreatdebate.org.uk/MentalismCB.html

 

"Much the same applies to mentalistic and mechanistic cognition. Each has its appropriate context. Essentially, what I have proposed is that values of an ethical, aesthetic, political, legal or religious kind have a proper place in mentalistic cognition, which is rightly applied in the humanities; is voluntaristic in its mode of explanation; relates peculiarly to psychological subjectivity; is the basis of mental culture; and is particularistic in the sense that mental life is individually- or socially- determined and culturally-relative. Material facts, on the other hand, relate to mechanistic cognition, which is properly applied in technology and the sciences; is deterministic in its mode of explanation; relates peculiarly to physical objectivity; is the basis of material culture; and is universalistic in the sense that scientific and technological truths are equally valid in all cultural contexts.

What I have tried to do here is to show that the fact/value problem is part of this much larger picture and finds new and unexpected insights in the study of autism and paranoia, as well as in normal sex differences in cognition. Essentially, I have argued that human cognition employs two distinct, non-commensurate and in many ways incompatible modes, each appropriate and reliable in its specific domain, but prone to fallacious or unreliable outputs if employed in the other. If I have succeeded in clarifying the differences between what I have termed mentalism and mechanism for want of better terms, I hope that I will have thereby contributed something - however small - to the avoidance of confusion between them in the future.

One virtue of this way of looking at things is that it would discourage religious, political and moral credulity, bigotry and fanaticism of all kinds by cutting mentalism down to size, so to speak. This is because all such reactions are quintessentially mentalistic, and according to this analysis, mentalism is just another human adaptation: the psychological equivalent of something like striding bipedalism, rather than some god-given, specially- created or necessarily-evolved spiritual superiority. (To use one of the few good analogies in another species, you might see mentalism as a means of communication and interaction as peculiar to our species and as quaint in its symbolism as the waggle-dance is to bees.)

Seeing culture as essentially mentalistic would also reduce literary and artistic snobbery and elitism, and would help to counter emotive, phobic and irrational reactions to scientific and technological innovation. Finally, understanding and accepting the mentalistic deficits of mechanistic thinking would also help to limit social exclusion, prejudice and misunderstanding of autistics of all kinds. Indeed, such a change in attitude might confer a new and special esteem on those who, like William Hamilton, have arguably contributed the most of lasting worth to our species as a whole through their work in engineering, technology, and science."

 

 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:58 | 3597934 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Funny thing, IQ and EQ aren't mutually exclusive traits as you seem to argue. Indeed many hugely successful people possess both in spades. I would argue in fact that most of the truly paradigm shifting people in history possed both and would have been hamstrung if they possessed only one or the other.

Going further there are many, many forms of intelligence that are extremely useful to humanity and help "get shit done".

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:59 | 3598291 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

Bring the Gold,

Many studies have shown that the score on SAT or GMAT have very little to do with your future success.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 21:08 | 3600400 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

If you replied to me, I have a question.

Did you read the article or even the part I posted?

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:26 | 3597899 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

with regard to IQ; ask someone who has one, perhaps they'll explain it you.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 04:51 | 3598038 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

That's like saying that you favor one leg over the other, and therefore the other one is just a tag-along you're stuck with.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:45 | 3598216 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Nah,

It's only sociopathic behaviour if you get an emotional pleasure from suffering...

If you're making a profit from it, it's just good business.

 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:10 | 3598241 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

It's at the point where he can't even fake stuff good anymore.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:07 | 3597426 Diamond Jim
Diamond Jim's picture

hate it when Prez Owe "drones" on and on.......

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:30 | 3597475 newengland
newengland's picture

The diplomat's son and drummer was the driving force in that band.

One world is enough for all of us.

Corporatists and their political minions think otherwise.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:14 | 3597434 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

O'Bummer the droner in Chief.

Hey Debt Brother from Planet Zero!

Have you closed Gitmo yet?

Have you pulled our kids out of the Middle East?

Have you prosecuted any Wall Street Fraudsters?

Is the Department of JustUs going after Jon Corzine?

Does "Freedom of the Press" mean anything to you?

Is the I.R.S. used as a political weapon stir your conscience any?

No?

What the FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU POTUS!?!?

What?  Too much banker dick in your mouth to answer!?!?

Tell it to Moochelle you fucking LOSER!

p.s. - A comedian in Portugal is being threatend with three years in prison for calling the President of Portugal a CLOWN.  Therefore, I exercise my First Amendment Rights to call you, Barrack Hussein Obama, a FUCKING WORTHLESS CLOWN!)

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:22 | 3597458 newengland
newengland's picture

He is a product of his environment:

CIA grandparents.

Sleezy confused CIA connected mother.

Communist father/s,male influences.

Chosen as The One by Nazionists like George Soros, major Democrat funder, and Chicago minions of his persuasion.

O'bomba is charming, and programmed to deliver for the Internationale.

I don't blame him personally. He is no different than that boy who bled out in a boat in Boston after the Marathon bombings: a dupe.

One difference: O'bomba does more harm. I think it is wrong to blame him personally for the wrongs committed mostly by those who pull his strings - including Valerie Jarrett and Joe Biden, the most hateful ones.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:30 | 3597476 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Did you see him go back out and talk to the marine after not saluting? You just know that he was told to do that like a little boy. I do sort of feel sorry for him.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:42 | 3597507 newengland
newengland's picture

Making a Marine hold an umbrella is a breach of protocol. If the President wants personal protection and respect, then he needs to show some to those would die for him, and us.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:32 | 3597571 Haole
Haole's picture

I felt embarassed and angry for those marines and would like to think the significance of these two small displays would resonate throughout the Corps.   It is hoped that U.S. servicemen and women come to know the nature of what they honorably serve.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 15:03 | 3598616 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Did you see him go back out and talk to the marine after not saluting? You just know that he was told to do that like a little boy. I do sort of feel sorry for him.

 

See it for what it WAS,a photograph was being taken.HE had to do it, or face hell in the media(esp the Cons media and the vets, and real Americans eyes).And why feel sorry for him?, he is a narcissist of the worst kind.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:35 | 3597491 honestann
honestann's picture

Every individual is responsible for his or her actions.  They and they alone are to be blamed for their actions.  This applies from the smallest transgressions to the largest.

PERIOD.

PS:  If some careless driver accidentally smashes into your car because he's distracted by his cell phone conversation, or because he's dreaming about his girlfriend or boyfriend, I am pretty certain you would blame him.  To not blame predators like Obama who know full well what they are doing, who know full well they are slaughtering and enslaving endless real, living human beings... is a travesy.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:46 | 3597509 newengland
newengland's picture

In court, it is called mitigation. You might want to go all old testament on his ass, but there is no law that would support your conclusion.

I agree with personal responsibility, but we don't live in that world, so I see no reason for the President to be an exception.

The law must be applied without fear or favor, no matter how low or high the position of the accused. 

Must be applied. It isn't now, and that is the ruin of the world.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:55 | 3597522 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Bullshit. He has a mind, heart and soul and is therefore responsible for his own choices and actions. I don't give a fuck about his upbringing or background..........

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:05 | 3597534 newengland
newengland's picture

You are naive in the ways of modern politics and finance, and malleable.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:23 | 3597579 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You are a contributing factor to the demise of a once great nation..........

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:34 | 3597713 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Using your logic no one is responsible for anything. When they hang, their sentences will be just.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:36 | 3597496 SnobGobbler
SnobGobbler's picture

!yeaaa fuck jon corzine! yeeeaaa! 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:09 | 3597540 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Rodeo clowns across America are looking to kick your ass.

Never associate that piece of shit in the white house with honest working men.

 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 14:25 | 3598565 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Clowns and Jesters play an important role, no insult intended.

When anyone OTHER than a clown pokes fun at society and people, and teases the bull rather than rides it, it is an insult to clowns.

A leader who fails to lead, who is not riding the bull, is actively insulting clowns and those they purport to lead.

Pepe Grillo and the like have been forced to lead, because supposed leaders are trying to be comedians and celebrities.

MY regards to clowns and jesters everywhere.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:10 | 3597658 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Hope and Change, our only hope, a change 3 years from now.

 

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:11 | 3597661 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

drone CLOWN!

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 01:04 | 3597939 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

If by change you mean someone other than anyone either R or D I agree. I hardly think the equally bought and controlled Repubs would be doing any better. Each president seems worse than the last...which is truly mind blowing considering how bad Bush was.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 23:00 | 3597762 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Does "Freedom of the Press" mean anything to you?"

Yes, O'bombya thinks it means He and Bernanke are free to print as much money as theyg will!

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 23:42 | 3597838 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Not a comedian, but a writer/commentator. The exact sentence was: "Beppe Grillo? We already have a clown. His name is Cavaco Silva." (the prez): http://noticias.sapo.pt/banca/economia/4108

Btw, for all those blaming the riots in Sweden on "muzzies" acting "muzzie" (ie: evil fanatical racists hell-bent on taking over and destroying peace loving western christian civilization, etc.), the victim of the police murder at the root of the riots was a 68yo Portuguese who lived in Sweden since 1975 and was married to a finnish born Swede...: http://expresso.sapo.pt/morte-de-portugues-na-origem-dos-tumultos-em-est...

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 13:33 | 3598489 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

BULLSHIT, you asshat. Quit believing the shit you read (or in this case, DON'T read) in the MSM.

"As Stockholm Riots Move Into Fifth Day, Press's Aversion to the M-Word ('Muslim') to Describe Those Involved Is Nearly Unanimous"

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2013/05/24/stockholm-riots-move-...

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 15:20 | 3598633 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

"As News from Stockholm Riots Become Public, ZH Asswipes' Aversion to the T-Word ('Truth') To Explain The Incidents Becomes Nearly Glaring"

Fixed.

Now,

Go.

Fuck.

Yourself.

Asswipe.

Clear enough?

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:33 | 3597486 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

Modern/Technical warfare removes the gore of war and justifies killing blips on a screen.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 20:59 | 3597488 Element
Element's picture

Yup, seems like everyone I see, especially in the mass-media, ignores the dozen or so bombs constantly going off everywhere where the US etal are involved in stirring the pot, or enforcing peace and democracy. Then it's just a 'war', or an 'insurgency', or 'sectarian strife' donchaknow. And the media don't even seem to realize how badly it damages their whole faux 'care-and-concern' schtick. But if a bomb goes off in a western country, ZOMFG! ... it's the end! ... freedum and liberty travail at the HUMANITY! ... the rank injustus! ... it grates on raw emotions of 'decent' and 'honorable' citizens! What twisted monsters could do such things?

OH GAWD, OH WHHYYY!?.

Then it takes about three weeks for "the story" to finally fuck-off from the evening-nu's-headlies. Meanwhile, about 5,000 slaughtered and 10,000 severely injured non-rating-humans, from other bombs, occur in the interim, which no one gives a toss about. And many are killed by the US and affiliated terrorist supplicant groups and mercs. Most countries don't do that, of course, but what is really sick is to see your own spineless country and its alleged 'leader' playing two-faced lick-spittle while aiding-and-abetting one-eyed unaccountable murderers, in the name of protecting 'national security' interests, whilst fleecing taxpayers to provide 'Aid', to same attacked countries (because we cares soooo much!!). While opportunistic refugees pile on to boats to come to live here, sucking off the work of these same generous taxpayers ... but the refos then can't help but notice and see our entrenched psychopathic one-eyed national hypocrisy, and naturally, many of them decide we were their real enemy, all along!

And they're more-or-less right, or at least they're not actually wrong.

And even returning soldiers know that's basically right, our fucking politicians have shafted us all, and made things very much worse than before. But then of course, such soldiers or intel specialists are declared to have suffered a traumatic mental illness and are now 'damaged', not thinking right, etc., all bought on by the insanity of the hypocrisy of the conflict, so not seeing things properly, they're a bit out of sorts with the authorized version of 'reality'.

But it's OK when a govt does an endless precession of feral low-acts, that would get any individual shot-on-sight.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:01 | 3597529 newengland
newengland's picture

The Patriot Act says soldiers and veterans are potential domestic terrorists.

The NDAA allows government to seize all resources.

This is fascism, brought to you by the Trilateral Commission and Nazionists who like Islamists, their thugs: Al-CIAda.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:42 | 3597602 Whatta
Whatta's picture

did you catch the story today about Iran kicking up their attempts to use cyber-terrorism against US corporate interests and inflict economic damage? We must get them Iranians, how dare they attempt to attack us!!!

Ironic that our President spiked the ball and cheered-on stuxnut as being a successful US (led) attack against them. But they attempt to "get us back".....them's is words of war.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:48 | 3597739 Element
Element's picture

Nah, not seen that yet, but been expecting it, for a long time (and much else). The US loves to open these cans of worms, while blaming everyone else, then screams like a sniveling punched-out bully when it gets the same back again.

Glass houses and stones.

Should be a bit of a clue. Like, how is the US less vulnerable than Iran, to a state-on-state dedicated high-tech sabotage program? Talk about asymmetric Iranian advantage and pay-offs, and a disproportionate US/NATO industrial downside, economic loss and material damage potential.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:04 | 3598235 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Ironic the BIS does not control Iran. Yet.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:11 | 3597548 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

To those that endured the sacrifice of a loved one;

To those that fought for the ideal and never returned;

To those that bled for us...

 

We humbly thank you.

 

Memorial Day isn't just a Bar-B-Que.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:18 | 3597562 newengland
newengland's picture

Thank you, most sincerely, our friend. Our country, for better or worse. 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 05:15 | 3598045 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If we keep our intellectual integrity, without sacrificing our humanity... consider this:

No matter how dumb, vile and evil TPTB were who pretexted and staged the various wars of bullshit, are we supposed to overlook that and just thank the poor bastards (cannon fodder, useful fools and tools) who went to war?  Just like that?

And while we're at it, and we're being oh so fucking 'honest' (sarc), are we still supposed to respect and obey the well-connected scum-fuckers who avoided Vietnam -- because they had powerful political connections (Bush!), or because they "had better things to do" (direct quote from Dick-head Cheney)?   And yet - irony of ironies -- millions of 'conservatives' and 'good Christians' voted for them.  Go figure.

No, there is no "honor" in having been forced/conscripted or duped into going to all the bullshit US wars (since 1945).  We should not "honor" them, but pity those who went.  And we should have nothing but contempt, revulsion and a wish for an incurable and painful cancer for those who caused it.

If more people said "you're a poor, naive fool and pure cannon fodder for TPTB, for Wall St, for the MIC and for the Fed", then maybe fewer men & women would drink that "glamor" or "honor" Kool Aid, and say "Fuck you, and send your own kids first!" to the Elite.

Sorry to shake up your preconceptions, but there it is.  If you hang out here on ZH and can take on many other contrarian views, I'm hoping you can handle this one too.

"To give up all Illusions and all Pretenses is the beginning of Wisdom.  All else is folly."

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 10:02 | 3598233 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

It ain't worth going to war unless the King leads the charge and the Realm is in trouble.

Otherwise, forget it.

George Washington wasthe last prez to lead troops in battle as prez.

If ophone wants another war, his skinny gay ass can go first.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 13:43 | 3598506 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Thanks for the comments, it reminds me of when John McCain called everyone in the tea party muppets..

I'm also comforted to know that some people, at least you were able to see things so clearly in the sixties, you were around then weren't you?

 I on the other hand was just out of high school and not yet educated to your level on all matters of life yet.

But I learned from my experience and so did a lot of people in my generation that maybe there is something wrong in fighting a war for unknown reasons in a way guaranteed losing and to return to a nation with a mentality shared by you and others.

we were greeted by blood thrown at the bus, and signs of welcome home baby killers..

I never thanked you if you were among them for pointing that out.

You write off a whole class of honest and lawful people as having no more worth to society as "cannon fodder" - however that sounds a bit elitist to someone like me, in fact it sounds like something that might be uttered at the dinner table at one of Jon Corzine's memorial day weekend get togethers.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 22:41 | 3599119 Shad_ow
Shad_ow's picture

Definitely.  Thank you to all of the brave from one of the formerly free.  Your sacrifice gave us lives filled with promise and opportunity in a country protected by the best. 

The greatest tradgedy of what is to come is not the loss of fortunes earned, it is the loss of freedom so many fought and died to give us.

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:12 | 3597552 Element
Element's picture

 

 

"Now, it’s possible that I’ve seen a more intellectually disingenuous speech in my life. But I really can’t remember when."

This is the relevant question:

When has Obama not done the opposite of what he claimed to be his policy?

There may be some instances, but I can't think of any right now.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:21 | 3597569 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Well, some posts above some ZH reader qualified my country as "Backardina" and he got a lot of plus.

It seems some haven't got to Darwin yet, they're stucked in the XVIII century.

Before the idea of race emerged in the U.S. European scientist Carolus Linneaus published a classification system in System Naturale in 1758 that was applied to humans. Thomas Jefferson, was among those who married the idea of race with a biological and social hierarchy.  Jefferson, a Virginia slave owner who helped draft the Declaration of Independence and later became President, was influential in promoting the idea of race that recognized whites as superior and Africans as inferior. Jefferson wrote in 1776 in Notes on the State of Virginia, "…blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind." Scientists were among those who were influenced by these ideas, and began to develop their own theories about race.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, scientists, influenced by Enlightenment philosophers, developed a system of categorizing things in nature, including humans.

Although Carolus Linnaeus was the first to develop a biological classification system, it was German scientist Johann Blumenbach who first introduced a race-based classification of humans, which established a framework for analyzing race and racial differences for the next hundred years.

By the 19th century the debate over race centered around two theories: one theory was that different races represented different species; the other was that humans were one species and that race represented variation in the human species—a view that was compatible with the teachings of the Bible.

Among those who espoused the multiple species theory, or polygeny, were Philadelphia physician Samuel Morton and European scholar Louis Agassiz. Their work was popular in the mid-19th century. The most prominent scientist who believed in monogeny, that all humans were one species, was Charles Darwin.

http://www.understandingrace.org/history/history_trans.html 


Fri, 05/24/2013 - 23:21 | 3597800 lolman
lolman's picture

> The most prominent scientist who believed in monogeny, that all humans were one species, was Charles Darwin.

I dont think anyone ever seriously doubted that

Now that, the fact that dogs are Canis Familiaris does not mean that there are no land-races  and breeds with different characterists

 

The same applies for humans

 

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:22 | 3597578 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

I don't know if ascribing morality to a sociopath fits, but this post is a nugget.

 

What if a sociopathic initiative were at work to pit one group of  Americans violently against another with the aggressing side favored by the sociopaths backed by a few billion rounds of DHS stock and its army in wait?

hmmm.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:35 | 3597589 newengland
newengland's picture

The DHS in wait.

It was created, the Patriot Act was created, the NDAA was created because professional military personnel are sworn to defend the country against all enemies at home and abroad.

The DHS is the Nazi version of politicians putting themselves first, along with their globalist central banksters.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:34 | 3597714 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

As much as I'm loathe to say it, I believe that last sentence is correct.

 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:41 | 3597911 22winmag
22winmag's picture

True... but DHS would not last two weeks in a real shooting match against the American people.

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:58 | 3597639 besnook
besnook's picture

you mean like everyone against the muslims? especially the brown ones? from overseas? like cheering for the dead one in boston?

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 22:49 | 3597745 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

worse: the red(or blue) one's vs. the blue (or red)

no religion, or skin color too.

 

 

Imagine

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 01:01 | 3597924 22winmag
22winmag's picture

What you call an "army in wait", I and many Americans call a bunch of targets that will fold up like cheap lawns chairs when the lead really starts flying.

 

The clowns at DHS would not stand a chance against millions of pissed off heavily armed American patriots, veterans, active duty military, etc. Hell, even the weekend crowd at my local shooting range would give DHS a run for their money.

 

It's time to kick back and watch Swordfish... especially the part where Travolta shoots the senator through the heart for treason and the part where he says "You're wrong, Stanley. Some men are put here to shape destiny, to protect freedom, despite the atrocities they must commit. I am one of those men. Thousands die every day for no reason at all. Where is your bleeding heart for them? You give your twenty dollars to Greenpeace every year and think you are changing the world. What countries will harbor terrorists, when they realize the consequences of what I will do?"

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:41 | 3597600 Fake_nation
Fake_nation's picture

Nationalism has been the biggest disaster in human history. If you study the history of modern Europe, you realize that pretty much every nation-state has been imposed over local customs of language and culture. They are all what Benedict Anderson called "imagined" communities. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imagined_communities

 

Say what you will about the ancients, but at least when the Greeks went to war they were doing it to fight for a polis in which they more or less knew everybody. There was nothing like the madness of WWI, where farmboys that may not even speak the language of their 'nation' go to their mass slaughter. 

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 23:19 | 3597793 lolman
lolman's picture

Nationalism is simply realism

 

Homogeneous communities are more stable than MultiCulturalism

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 02:47 | 3597998 prains
prains's picture

1984

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 04:10 | 3598028 Fake_nation
Fake_nation's picture

Except that the results of nationalism have never been homogeneous. 'Spaniards' that speak Catalan, 'Austrians' that think they are Germans, and don't get me started on the multicultural mess that is the United Kingdom of Scots, Brits, and Welsh. You get a superficial stability until people in Chechnya or Ireland wake up and realize they're paying taxes and fighting in wars for some authority that means nothing to them. The creation of a nation is always a forced homogenization, not an organic structure of already homogeneous communities. 

We can do better than to continue to draw imaginary lines on maps and pretending they work as unified structures. 

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:12 | 3598178 yatikto
yatikto's picture

Nationalism is what divides conservatives around the globe.  Liberals don't have that problem, that's why they are succeeding.  I follow russian internal politics and it amazing how they have similar issues with conservatives here.  gay rights, liberals, gun control. etc.   they have different stress points, but same agenda.  yet want to annihilate each other with nukes, at least the stupid ones do.

 

 

Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:55 | 3597634 besnook
besnook's picture

empire building requires a sociopathic mind set. whether it is in business or nation(the two are inseparable in reality, one and the same) building, sociopathy distills the goal into a narrowly defined sharply imaged end point. everything else is just touchy feely kumbaya weakness of the mind and body. if you are not with the empire then you are against it. you are the enemy because your thoughts do not conform to the goals of the empire. under the patriot act and the ndaa you are to be renditioned to a reeducation camp until you are no longer a threat. no soup for you!

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 00:01 | 3597851 Element
Element's picture

This was an excellent read:

--

'Obama must be taken before ICC for the war on terror' - Chomsky to RT

 

Published time: May 23, 2013 13:13

 

"The US war on terror is in fact the most massive terror campaign ever, and the invasion of Iraq was the worst crime in recent history, prominent liberal thinker Noam Chomsky told RT, adding that he wants to see Bush, Blair and Obama tried at the ICC. ..."

 

/.../

 

" ... A drone strike was a terror weapon, we don’t talk about it that way. It is, just imagine you are walking down the street and you don’t know whether in 5 minutes there is going to be an explosion across the street from some place up in the sky that you can’t see. Somebody will be killed, and whoever is around will be killed, maybe you’ll be injured if you’re there. That is a terror weapon. It terrorizes villages, regions, huge areas. In fact it’s the most massive terror campaign going on by a longshot. ..."

 

/.../

 

"... Take a look at the International criminal court (ICC) - black Africans or other people the West doesn’t like. Bush and Blair ought to be up there. There is no recent crime worse than the invasion of Iraq. Obama’s got to be there for the terror war. But that is just inconceivable. In fact there is a legislation in the US which in Europe is called the ‘Netherlands invasion act’, Congressional legislation signed by the president, which authorizes the president to use force to rescue an American brought to the Hague for trial. ..."

 

http://rt.com/op-edge/drone-strikes-campaign-terrorist-679/

--

What a fetid unmitigated disaster Obama has been for the United States, even worse than Bush, because the associated hypocrisy and ideological lying is that much thicker laid on, so much more sick and absurd, and that much more damaging to the US's reputation, at a very deep level, and globally, and for all sides of the US political circus, and for all Western countries and Govts, in general. What a miserable catastrophe.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 02:24 | 3597993 etresoi
etresoi's picture

History has a way of dealing with sociopaths.  I am confident that Bush and Obama will get what they deserve.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 13:31 | 3598487 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

They are the puppets. Do we just scapegoat them and leave the real culprits (cowards), who work behind the curtain alone to keep doing this with other puppets they create?

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 03:04 | 3598005 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

A good read, but I think the situation is a little more complicated.  For better or worse, America has long been counted on to be the world's police.  You can say the US has no business doing so, but it's a little naeive (sp) to think that world conflict would have "worked itself out" time and again since WWI.  The advent of intercontinental ballistic missles, advanced communications techniques, and shifts in economics and migration have led to a far more complicated world.  Have some people used this to exploit or even create conflict?  Of course.  But hindsight is 20/20 and while it seems easy to see that the US should have never gone back to Iraq (or Vietnam for that matter), nobody can say how those and other situations would have worked out.  I mean if the US doesn't help Kuwait, than where would Sadam have gone after that?  If Iran drops a nuke on Israel than the "why didn't we act" cry will be heard worldwide....because failure of action has led led to some pretty dire consequences (WWII, 9-11, etc etc etc).

The job of the US intelligence community is to first and foremost protect American citizens.  If the UN or some other wordly body was able to protect diplomats of every nation on every corner of the globe, than i'm sure they would be charged for doing so.  Unfortunately, the UN's track record of rhetoric without action is unmatched. If Sweeden is sending diplomats to areas of the world in which they cannot adequately protect, is that the fault of the US??

I think the drone and other programs are largely misused but i'm also glad certain people have been taken out.  All life is important and certainly no less important for the unborn. That asidei'd be careful about making blanket judgements based on oversimplification of an issue....which is what I think the author has done here.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 04:59 | 3598042 GoldenDonuts
GoldenDonuts's picture

The first Iraq invasion I can maybe agree with you.  Maybe.  But the second.  No that was bullshit.  Baby Bush wanted to finish the job that his daddy started and found an excuse.  Drone strikes are indefensible.  What happens if suddenly say China comes up with some device that can blow up people in America because they don't like them.  I am sure that some elements of that government could find that moral, just and neccessary.  I am thinking that all Americans would find that disturbing and maybe want to strike back.  No the road that Barry and his merry band of fuck ups has started down is a slippery slope.

The world doesn't need a policeman.  What the world needs is leaders who can play in their own sand box.  America could be the engine of world growth again if you just stop attacking other countries.   A huge part of your deficit would dissappear if you just brought the boys home like Barry promised about five years ago. 

Imagine what you could do with that cash instead.  I bet you could even fix bridges on the Washington state I5 so that they don't fall on a windy day.  You could return to what you are good at.  Making cool shit that the rest of the world copies.  Grow the pie.  But worst of all is how you live in fear.  I mean look at the stats.  Even if terrorism ran wild you would still be thousands of times more likely to die of cancer at 80 than of some terrorist attack an yet you let homeland security trample your beloved constitution.   Its sad really.

We in the west can't tell other people how to live their lives.  I think that has been proven over the past ten years in Iraq and Afganistan.   I'm a Canuck and we went to Afganistan with you and I supported it.  But now it looks to me like all of the kids that died there died in vein because about 10 minutes after we leave, and eventually we will that "country" will revert to the mean.  Another benefit of not attacking countries and droning them is that there will be fewer people who have an axe to grind and consequently fewer terrorists resulting in less requirement for homeland security.  Doesn't  homeland security sound an awful lot like the old soviet department of the interior.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 09:53 | 3598223 MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

On premise I pretty much agree with you. I said we should have never went BACK to Iraq (aka 2nd time) and Bush etc should have had much more evidence (I think they were bamboozled by Israli intelligence).  I also agree the US doesn't need to be a policeman but when real threats around the world occur someone needs to stand up at times.  No need to have US military bases all around the world, when a few small ones would probably do fine. Our foreighn policy has been a mess for a long time because, as most things the government is involved in, it is overreaching and overly complicated. When alwakawi or whatever his name was that was taken out by a drone strike (Obama's #2 I think) most cheered.  Now we take out people without names and there is no accountability. At the same time, the US needs to stop providing foreighn aid as most is not used for humanitarian purposes. However, a completely isolated, stand down US will not promote peace and everyone knows the UN is nothing but a paper tiger at best and a joke at worst. Canada, of all places, has benefited from living next to the country with the biggest sword and has rightfully outspoken about certain US policy...it's what good neighbors do. Our immigration policy is a mess and much more lax than the rest of the world. Forget terrorism, what are the statistics of how likely you are to die from violence of any sort?  Your argument of letting terrorism run rampent because of the liklihood of dying of cancer is higher makes no sense.  What about all of the failed/stopped terror/violence? Are you advocating international Marshall law?

The Middle East has always been a powderkeg but, as I said it is more complicated now and it does make a difference when talking about the capability to wipe out nations.  Letting people "live the way they want to" is fine until they infringe on your right to do the same.  9-11 changed things and had nothing to do with the US in Iraq etc.  It's like the friend of the guy who hacked the British soldier this week saying it is the British governments fault for taking the country to war because war is violent etc.  So their answer to violence is to hack someone to death with a meat clever? Muslim countries have enough infidels....why do they need to go elsewhere to right the world? Those fundamentalists are hypocrits with self esteem issues.  There are no virgins waiting in heaven for them.  It's nothing but a bamboozle of the feeble minded.  If people want peace they need to turn to the only one who life exemplified peace and that is Christ, as others turn away you get more reliance on government, more chaos, less quality of life.  Obama and others around him want the state to be dominant and controlled by the few.....well that isn't what the US was founded upon and it is what has caused most of the trouble around the globe for centuries. Statists always overspend and overreach to the detriment of their people and others. We need to value innocent life everywhere but preventing escalation of violence does save lives, isn't always accomplished by talking, and should be the goal of any military operation. With that mindset I would think the area of when to act and when not to act becomes less gray. I hope we can agree on that.

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