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Mapping Bitcoin's Global Adoption

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Jonathan Stacke via The Genesis Block blog,

Bitcoin has made significant progress towards becoming the world's first truly global currency over the past few years. To gain better perspective on bitcoin’s impact, we took a look at global wallet downloads, demonstrated interest by region, exchange volumes across currencies, mining node locations, real-world interactions around bitcoin, and the major companies and investors pushing the bitcoin economy forward.

Bitcoin Software Downloads

We began by looking at which countries had the most downloads of bitcoin software and then calculated the trends over time and within context of a number of other factors. Worth noting: while this likely serves as a reasonable proxy, it is not inclusive of all bitcoin users, as hosted wallets, thin wallets and holdings at exchanges would not be reflected here.

global wallet downloads

Countries listed in order of cumulative downloads

The United States is the clear frontrunner in terms of total number of downloads. China had surprisingly few downloads for a country its size until the recent documentary aired by China’s largest state-run broadcaster. As shown in the chart above and echoed elsewhere in our findings, Russia was an early adopter but has since tapered off relative to interest growing elsewhere around the globe.

To normalize for country size, we compared total wallet downloads to the population of each country to find penetration into each region. In doing so, we quickly realized the Nordic countries are the clear leaders in bitcoin adoption. As the second chart below indicates, one probable reason for this is the region’s familiarity with and access to technology – all of the Nordic countries rank among the highest in the world for internet penetration.

They also all share similar and uniquely successful socioeconomic models based on a strong mutual trust between the citizens and states. So much so that Päivi Heikkinen, Finland’s Head of the Division for Oversight of Financial Markets Infrastructure explicitly responded to a question about whether or not bitcoin is illegal by stating, “Not at all; people can invest in and use any money they prefer.”

downloads per capita

downloads vs internet penetration

 

There is a correlation of 0.7 between a country’s bitcoin downloads per capita and internet penetration

Global Search Traffic

Historical search engine traffic from around the globe tells an interesting story as well. By tracking this, we can see the waxing and waning interest from different regions. The chart below shows interest from key countries across different time scales. The way Google Trends offers data is set by normalizing search data for population size and then assigning a value of 100 to the region with the greatest number of normalized searches. Normalized data from other regions is then compared to that on a scale of 0 to 100.

bitcoin searches

The chart above offers some interesting information. Most notably, interest in China has grown tremendously, particularly in the last 30 days since the documentary aired. We can also see from this graph that interest from Russia has slowed, relative to other countries, and some new entrants like the Czech Republic are beginning to emerge.

Looking at the chart below, we can see interest from known U.S. tech hubs like San Francisco, New York and Austin. Interestingly, there is also apparent heavy search traffic from Portland, home to Gliph, the new startup offering pseudo-identities to help facilitate bitcoin transactions.

bitcoin searches us

Let the record show that the citizens of Portland, Oregon liked bitcoin before it was  cool.

Exchange Volume

Searches and software downloads show interest, but the true story unfolds when money enters the picture, so looking at exchange volumes across currencies offers even deeper insight into the evolving bitcoin narrative.

As would be expected, USD still dominates trading volume, but mapped against other currencies we can see a consistent declining trend as other countries and their currencies enter the picture in larger amounts.

bitcoin trading vol by currency

USD as a share of total bitcoin trading volume has fallen from near 100% to approximately 80% over the past two years. The most notable gain from is from CNY (Chinese Yuan), which grew from approximately 0.4% of total volume in April 2012 to an impressive 4.7% in April 2013.

Within the still-dominant USD trading, there is a healthy trend of diversification away from Mt. Gox towards alternative exchanges. As shown in the chart below, alternative exchanges have gained traction on the DDoS-susceptible leader in the space – a trend likely to continue after their recent loss of Dwolla as an account funding source and investigation by the Department of Homeland Security. Worth noting, the chart below should be viewed as an approximation, as data for exchanges that have shut down over the years was not available for this analysis.

btc-usd per exchange

Connected Nodes

Bitcoin is only as strong as the network on which it is based, so the value of connected nodes cannot be overlooked in an analysis of global adoption. The chart below shows a snapshot of the geographical breakdown of connected nodes taken on May 18.

This chart represents individual node connections, not total hashing/mining power. We’re working on an article to cover this topic in the depth it deserves, but for now we can see a story consistent with the rest of this analysis. The United States remains the power player, with significant interest from China. The Nordic countries, not represented on the graph due to their relatively low total connections, were represented at an impressive level within the data set relative to their size – as would be expected given the download data shown earlier.

bitcoin global nodes

Real World Interaction

The utilization of bitcoin in the real world, outside of the internet, will be paramount to its broader proliferation. There have been major advancements towards this, such as Kreuzberg, Berlin recently showing the world a significant step forward by deeply integrating bitcoin into the local economy and restaurants in New York City beginning to accept it as well.

As a proxy to determine the propensity for a region to bring the bitcoin movement offline, we looked at the number of people participating in bitcoin-oriented meetups across the world. The chart below shows the number of participants in the largest meetups in each city, grouped by country. The usual suspects are all present, with newcomers like Israel and Argentina demonstrating significant real world interest.

global bitcoin meetups

Breaking down offline bitcoin interest in the US even further, San Francisco and New York City remain the clear leaders, with a strong showing from Chicago and Seattle, the latter of which is home to CoinLab, the first VC-backed bitcoin startup in the US.

USA Meetups

Companies and Venture Capital

At the backbone of the bitcoin movement are a handful of visionary entrepreneurs and prescient investors. To see where the future of bitcoin is being built, we compiled a list of leading bitcoin companies and venture capitalists, focusing on the US as it has by far the greatest number of successful companies and investment capital flow to date.

Investors and Companies

The notion of international collaboration across disparate individuals has never before been achieved at this scale, outside of the internet itself. There is a bright future ahead for bitcoin, and we’re looking forward to helping it unfold.

 

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Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:36 | 3601268 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Must be Memorial Day humour

Says above

« ... There is a bright future ahead for bitcoin ... »

Ha !

The 'global future' of bitcoin is in various countries' court system dockets for 'electronic money laundering'

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:39 | 3601278 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Bitcoin will still be around when fiat will be long dead...

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:48 | 3601289 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

So will bitcoin2, bitcoin3, bitcoin(infinity)

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:54 | 3601298 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

For transactions, I couldn't care less if people want to use the peanut shells off the floor of my favorite bar.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:59 | 3601309 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

People can use whatever they want to exchange goods for allI care.  I just think people are going to get destroyed trusting in something they don't understand.  I wrote this below:

 

Bitcoin will destroy itself once people realize there are basically an infinite number of possible bitcoin algorithms that can come into existence.  Unlike gold and silver, the encryption representing the value is valueless.  Since any number of encrypted coinage system can be made, they are all worthless if not backed by anything like a government with a huge military or gold and silver which hold their own value.  Once people realize this, then its price will go to zero.  I wish I could short it.

 

I really don't think governments will care.  If they do care, it'll be because they don't want to see people being suckered.  There may be nothing they can do though and will have to let people learn the hard way.  sad

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:10 | 3601323 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"Since any number of encrypted coinage system can be made, they are all worthless..."

I believe you are mistaken. The 'worth', or 'value', of a thing is determined by individuals according to it's usefulness to that individual. Enough people seem to regard BitCoin as useful, so I expect it to be around for a while. My personal preference would be to use shells, but they are useless - currently.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:16 | 3601332 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Marginal Utility and Subjective Value... 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:39 | 3601378 espirit
espirit's picture

Sort of cherry picking here, but this one issue is rather troubling...

"one probable reason for this is the region’s familiarity with and access to technology – all of the Nordic countries rank among the highest in the world for internet penetration."

Prolly a best case scenario would be that only half the globe would be on board.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:59 | 3601545 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Satoshi takes away the sins of the fiat world!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:05 | 3602113 Unpopular Truth
Unpopular Truth's picture

Voting for Satoshi: Times Man of the Year!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:26 | 3601351 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

Yes, there are a lot of non-computer science people out there buying up bitcoins, it still doesn't make it worth something as a general curerency.  I'm not a collector of Ferby toys though enough people like them that the producer made million I'm sure.  It may be around for awhile until people learn the lesson.  It's called a fad.  Lots of people make money while it's hot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf2MNCu5oqM

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:16 | 3601576 Western
Western's picture

No sorry it's anything but a fad.

 

In fact, America's fincen rules say you can buy bitcoins, but may not buy back into USD with BTC. That leaves the door open for anyone looking to gtfo out of the petrodollar. Why would anyone rationalize holding dollars anymore.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:41 | 3601370 malikai
malikai's picture

In fact, shells have been used in-place of money for as long as they have existed.

This shell below has been used in a large number of transactions and could be considered a long favourite among some:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M224_mortar

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:43 | 3601385 espirit
espirit's picture

I'd offer up at least an Au oz for one of those...

BTC, not so much.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:53 | 3601404 malikai
malikai's picture

I'd hold on to my BTC, too.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:42 | 3601383 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

I prefer big rocks

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:22 | 3601344 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

" I wish I could short it"

 

You can.. http://qz.com/69630/how-to-short-bitcoins-if-you-really-must/

 

Good luck

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:59 | 3601416 malikai
malikai's picture

https://icbit.se/futures

10:1 leverege. I dare you.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:57 | 3601581 Haole
Haole's picture

I double dare you PR, go for it.

Thanks for the article Tylers, nice one.

It is also remarkable that how not long ago Bitcoin threads would garner pages and pages of ignorant bullshit spoken out people's asses in no time flat.  Now, not even two pages of mostly rational discussion except for a couple of people who were born to be behind the curve.  Interesting.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:02 | 3602001 draug
draug's picture

This is due to commentor self selection. Whether the majority of commentors are positive or negative to a certain topic (applies anywhere, not just on ZH) is largely determined by the headline/topic and what kind of people would click that kind of article in the first place. This article appeals to pro-bitcoin commentators like myself.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:21 | 3601469 draug
draug's picture

People already realize that. There's already a name for alternative coins - altcoins - and everybody already knows about them. None of them have much chance of threathening bitcoins dominance. You are ignoring network effects and market share - just because there are potentially infinite google clones, doesn't make google worthless tomorrow.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:25 | 3601593 Haole
Haole's picture

I think ZH'ers co ntinually calling Bitcoin "Fiat" and a "Ponzi" should research an appropriate direction for their comments, it's called Ripple.  This is the true altcoin centralized, non-open-source, non-free market, "controlled" and "rationed" scam of a digital currency.

 

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:06 | 3601707 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You just need a big household name with deep pockets - think ebay/paypal creating one and granting it the same user protection paypal has on ebay...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:40 | 3602198 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@PersonalResponsiblity

Oh good, someone saying Bitcoin will be "dead". I was worried for a minute there wouldn't be anyone willing to make that embarrassing mistake. Let me know how you'd like my sarcastic follow-up post to sound later this year.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:31 | 3602759 GoldMeUp
GoldMeUp's picture

PersonalRespons,

Your thinking is sound and I had the exact same thoughts when I first discovered bitcoin in 2011.  This prompted me to move on and dismiss it.  Since its resurgence this year, I've taken interest again and have finally figures out why the "bitcoin can be cloned" thing is not a problem.

If you look at the landscape now, there ARE clones of bitcoin (Litecoin, PPCoin, Terra, Novacoin, Chinacoin, Feathercoin, BBQ Coin, Freicoin).  Those ones that I have listed are actually worth something (purely out of speculation since you can't spend them anywhere) but their value is only a small fraction of what bitcoin is worth.  There's countless other "altcoins" that have been started, and new ones seem to spring up every day.  Most of them die off and go nowhere.  The other ones, well, we'll see where they go.

The thing that this has taught me though, is that bitcoin gets its value from the network effect.  Anyone can start a bitcoin2, bitcoin3, or whatever, but they are worthless until people decide to actually give them value.  Bitcoin itself though, has such a huge head start already, and so much momentum - talented developers, vibrant community, hundreds of thousands of users, real shops accepting them, real exchanges trading them, decent exchange volume, conferences, meetups, an amazing amount of computational power, blah blah the list goes on.  Bitcoin was also the original genius idea and everyone else is just copying it (and in most cases, also copying the bitcoin source code).  So, you can't just devalue bitcoin by duplicating it.  This is what is the real tangible value behind bitcoin - you can't print them, theyre rare, and there is so much real world activity using them and which is growing.

 

I would encourage you to spend some time getting involved in bitcoin and altcoins and you should start to get some confidence in why bitcoin is something special.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:19 | 3601339 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

  @  Skin666

 

Bitcoin will still be around when fiat will be long dead...

 

so will e-gold

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:28 | 3601354 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Agreed...

 

There will be a number of competing currencies, as there would be in any other market... 

 

 

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:18 | 3602654 WezTheJuic
WezTheJuic's picture

Then I guess you better get a "Chip Implant", to save the bitcoin.  (Am I saying too much?  Or am I stating the obvious?)

 

"Chips and dips,,,, for everybody.

 

Pens,

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:46 | 3601286 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

That's probably a little rash, but not far off.  I support the Bitcoin notion and think it would be a wonderful thing if it were allowed to evolve.

But the problem I have with it is that it is direct competition with each nations' central bank and their manipulation of the "economy" through monetary policy.  To that end, Bitcoin has a huge target on its back.

Have heard here before that Bitcoin will never fail unless the entire internet goes down.  I absolutely do not put this past the world governments if their only control mechanism over the masses (which is control of the currency) were to start to slip.

That's why Bitcoin makes me nervous.  Five years ago no one in their right mind thought that a bank would steal your savings.  How far we've come in desperate times.

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:14 | 3601330 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Let's go through a little thought experiment...

When the banking system crashes, anything denominated in fiat will also crash. The bond market, the stock market, everything will be cratering compared to real assets...

This hot money will go into anything real(real estate, producer goods, consumer goods etc)... But when looking at transferring wealth from failing fiat into other monies, where will it go?

It will certainly go into the precious metals first. This we already know, with recent shortages... As the situation gets worse, and people rush to move their money out of fiat, physical gold and silver will run out, and nobody will be selling. Gold/silver fever in 2014?

The logical next place for this hot money to go in terms of currency is the crypto currencies. And this transfer is getting easier, with each passing day. There are numerous small exchanges popping up everywhere on the interwebz. There is also a lot of capital being invested in start ups and bitcoin businesses at the moment, which will show up in the next year...

Government have been juggling hand grenades for the past five years. It is only a matter of time, until these grenades are dropped and they start exploding... Does anyone honestly think that governments are going to be able to shut down bitcoin? I would say it's impossible. Sure, they could close down the odd exchange but there will be several more to take their place. How are banks going to clamp down on bank transfers between individual traders?  Sure, they could identify a handful and close them down, but there will be several more opening up tomorrow...

How are they going to trace random number and letter wallet addresses between hundreds of thousands of wallets? The government couldn't run a bath! It's impossible... When more money is moved into the bitcoin network, how are they going to be able to tax the transactions? Impossible...

Even if they were somehow to compromise bitcoin, you move your money into litecoin, or namecoin, or any other crypto currency that are developing daily...

This is the free market against power. This is the masses against a small number of psychopathic cunts, that are desperately trying to keep the protection racket together. The free market always wins...

The loss of credibility from the coming hyperinflation will destroy governments... Without credibility they have no control. Without control of the money, they have no power...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:47 | 3601393 espirit
espirit's picture

A little logic error there thinking of a cratering fiat will purchase much of anything.  The fiatsco holder becomes the bagholder.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:15 | 3601726 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

How will you pay for your internet, if the banking system crashes (or for the utilities it relies on, for that matter)?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:20 | 3601337 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Have heard here before that Bitcoin will never fail unless the entire internet goes down.  I absolutely do not put this past the world governments if their only control mechanism over the masses (which is control of the currency) were to start to slip.

Only a tiny fraction of money exists in physical form. The rest of it exists in the digitial realm of 1000011101010. So for the government to shut off the internet to terminate bitcoin would be akin to firing the bullet into the back of it's own head.

If the internet goes down, the country would probably collapse and bitcoin would be the least of your worries.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:21 | 3601343 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Exaclty! If the governments shut down the internet, the banking system and the source of the governments power also gets destroyed...

 

There is no way out... Governments and the banks are fucked...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:01 | 3601690 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Wrong. The government & big banks have their OWN dedicated NON-Internet network for transactions.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:30 | 3601747 malikai
malikai's picture

Also wrong.

They both continue to increase their own reliance on the internet in addition to their private networks.

You clearly have not worked in either Finance or Government.

Do tell: How will people email across companies without the internet? How will that multibillion dollar SLC facility receive internet spying data when the internet is shut down?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:37 | 3601938 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're too young to remember but we had these things called FAXES that worked on these other dinosaur-age things called phone-lines.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:51 | 3601979 malikai
malikai's picture

No, you're too old to visualize the volume and dispersity of transmission mechanisms required to keep the machine running, today.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:51 | 3602090 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No, you're too naive to think that secure transit of funds is handled using email or internet of any sort. It isn't.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:00 | 3602104 malikai
malikai's picture

Idiot. I guess you don't use anything like internet banking, buy anything online, transact in any way using the internet, and of course only use FAX and carrier pidgeon to get things done.

Not worth continuing with you.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:18 | 3602811 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

idiot. I use the most security possible. For the most part that's cash in hand and I have, of course, my coins. Cash IN HAND. Period.

I guess I have what you'd call 'the paranoia'

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:50 | 3602228 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@MeelionDollerBogus

Okay genius, here's how it works with SWIFT - you provision a line into a dedicated terminal device that uses crypto to protect its payload as it moves around the world's peering points. (The simple-simon troll friendly version.)

They like to say "point to point VPN" a lot of times to give the impression that it is isolated physically from the rest of the world, but the fact is these packets are sharing transit with the latest YouTube video streaming to a kid in Kansas, the only difference is you need the right private key in your terminal to authenticate the output of your digital funny-money, in addition to the right destination IP address.

And I know, because I've actually helped set up a direct terminal before. Its a lot of work and a pain in the effing ass.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:17 | 3602810 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That's bull.

I can believe the high-speed fibre is in the same BUNDLE most of the way as other fibres but those packets will not be shared with anything on the public internet.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:00 | 3601686 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

It doesn't even have to go down: it just needs to slow down, and not for all of it, just for anything that looks like bitcoin-related packets. Look up QoS. This is too easy to smash down.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:17 | 3601731 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

deep packet inspection...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:43 | 3601948 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Look up TOR and the deep web.

Drugs and fully automatic weapons are available for sale there. Websites that people like Chuck Schumer have known about for years yet remain completely impotent to shut down.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:49 | 3601292 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

In the US, but isn't everything and everybody headed there eventually?

Apparently, it isn't the case in Finland.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:04 | 3601315 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

maybe not so funny

according to the Oxford Club, there's preemptive moves from the FED a few weeks out to crush alternates to digital $'s,

...along with useful green FRN toilet paper from the heavy hand of asswipe Ben

 

http://pro.oxfordclub.com/MONEY4979IUP/EOXFP581/?email=&a=9&o=11409&s=11...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:12 | 3601826 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

What. The. Fuck. He's talking about - is this a joke? Cashless Euro - really? As I remember it, at the struck of midnight new-year's eve 1999 (sorry, 2002), everyone rushed to the nearest ATM to withdraw their first Euro notes (physical, duh..). As for the old currency, it just remained in use, just as before, for a variable length of time, and in fact, as far as I know, at least some countries still keep them stored till this day...

But I guess the US and the EU are just issuing new notes so they can remove them all the while doing it...

Btw, tell me exactly where did panic erupted, because, again, as I remember it, everyone had really high hopes for the Euro (oh well...).

So, ok, the Euro was launched in 1999 for non-physical operations; still, since it was physically introduced in 2002, the Euro is as cash based as any other currency...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:13 | 3602278 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

bitcoin has preempted as alternative to bankster controlled currency

not to the pleasure of central banksterism

this suggests the urgency of control

trashing pm's a prerequsite

the new way unveils

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:18 | 3602417 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Keep saying it: a currency that's been "sold" on the basis that it's absolutely traceable, in the long run, is anything but an alternative to fiat. No anonymity; no escaping status quo.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:53 | 3602469 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

exactly

june 18

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:43 | 3601280 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

As you might know, I was the biggest Bitcoin booster on ZH. I still like Bitcoin to hold but I no longer trust the development community to adhere to the original underlying concepts and designs. I certainly don't trust the main exchange, Mtgox, to be an honest dealer. The guys that run it are crooks. And then there's Coinbase, the Money Powers foot in Bitcoin's door. Coinbase is run by Fred Ehrsam, Goldman Sachs operative. Coinbase is GS's way of getting Bitcoins to play with and their way of gathering intel on their "customers". 

Bitcoin was supposed to be a decentralized, P2P currency with an emphasis on privacy. The privacy angle is gone since so many people are willing to give their banking information to Coinbase and Mtgox in order to get bitcoins.

As a speculative venture, get some bitcoins if you can do it without giving up your personal info. If you have to give up your info to get bitcoins, it ain't worth it.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:19 | 3601340 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

I can just as easily send my bitcoins through a shared wallet to a private address and just claim that i sold them for cash to someone.  Plausible deniability is easy with Bitcoin.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:39 | 3601380 malikai
malikai's picture

I don't like coinbase at all either. I smell a rat with them - and I suspect that plenty of smart folks will keep clear of them.

As for Gox; it won't last. The fatal blow for them was the last crash. Everything since is just body twitches.

You want to exchange BTC privately? http://localbitcoins.com

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:54 | 3601405 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> I don't like coinbase at all either. I smell a rat with them - and I suspect that plenty of smart folks will keep clear of them.

I'm glad to hear we're in sympatico re: Coinbase. Always good to have independent backup of one's suspicions. Unfortunately, most of Bitcoin's userbase has little to no idea of the nature of the Money Powers. Most kids in their 20's don't have the background yet to provide context to the larger world.

My warnings about Coinbase to the Bitcoin kids fell on deaf ears. I'm just the wacky old guy bitching about bankers in their eyes. I guess it's payback for me thinking the same of those wacky old guys that were trying to warn me when I was in my 20's.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:08 | 3601441 malikai
malikai's picture

If you've been watching the forums at all you can get the feeling the plenty of folks (newcomers, mostly) don't quite know what they're doing. But they want to do the right thing, and they know a good thing when they see it. I find it encouraging. Although it means there are a lot of easily misled, it also means there are a lot of people getting fucked off about the fiat system and seeking alternatives.

I saw a few people on the forums saying that Coinbase was 'a good thing' because they were 'experts' in the financial sector. So I know what you're saying and I found it hilariously misguided that people could even think former goldman = 'good steward'. Apparently they haven't heard of a guy named John Corzine or Lloyd Blankfien. But then again, we're all here to lean. And learn they will - the hard way.

Nevertheless, it's important to realize that BTC is an inherently anarcho-capitalist thing. The people who participate in BTC on a basis of political alignment, not speculation, will not often make that mistake. And they are the strong hands.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:29 | 3601602 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Coinbase is a 'good thing' because they know what the fuck they are doing.  Yes, they come from the nest, but you can spread your bitcoin banking in more than one place.

Until the rest of the upstarts figure it out Coinbase is still one of the easiest ways to lock in a price (yes they deliver a few days later)

So, unless you live near a miner, (or mine a few yourself), you have to pay very high fees (BitInstant) or deal with worse troubles (Gox) than Coinbase for now

 

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:35 | 3601620 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> Until the rest of the upstarts figure it out Coinbase is still one of the easiest ways to lock in a price (yes they deliver a few days later)

Coinbase is a goddam scam. What GS operation can you name that hasn't been a scam?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:04 | 3602112 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

i haven't been scammed and used them a few times.

right now we are still in the wild west stage, you have to watch all your steps anyway.

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:04 | 3602388 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> i haven't been scammed and used them a few times.

You gave up your bank info to use Coinbase.

 

You got scammed.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:03 | 3601696 malikai
malikai's picture

I don't doubt for a second that they know what they're doing. I do doubt wether or not Coinbase's customers know what Coinbase is doing.

And in time, the exchange issue will be sorted out and we won't be having this conversation because there will be enough choices available.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:01 | 3602109 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I agree... but I don't mind using them as one way to get coins

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:37 | 3601625 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> And they are the strong hands.

I'm always glad to shake another strong hand. My $5 btc have been put away for years.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:07 | 3601706 DeeDeeTwo
DeeDeeTwo's picture

Meeting shleps at the Soda Jerk to trade Bitcoins... is quaint, so 1950s.

Ripple will make all BTC exchanges obsolete in 6 months.

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:12 | 3601720 malikai
malikai's picture

LOL

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:55 | 3602238 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@DeeDeeTwo

Sorry man, that ship has sailed.

https://bitmessage.org/wiki/Main_Page

Ripple has a pre-mined past, a centralized server structure and its a little too eager to be Bitcoin's "best friend EVAR".

BitMessage is open source and can actually do the things Ripple wish it could - in a decentralized and transparent manner.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:42 | 3601281 observer007
observer007's picture

Bitcoin will not survive! There will be a bitcoin prohibitation and spyprograms for all PCs. Fed will never allow 2nd currency - if it becomes sucessful.

like this:

US entertainment industry: rootkits, spyware, ransomware and trojans to attack "pirates"

USA Intellectual Property Theft Commission Recommends Malware: "Legalize the use of malware in order to punish people believed to be copying illegally" - Rootkits, spyware, ransomware and trojans to attack pirates

So: the fed will spy your PC for illegal bits:

http://homment.com/entertainemnt-malware

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:48 | 3601290 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"Fed will never allow 2nd currency..."

Fuck 'em.

Fuck the Fed and their debt-based, usurious asses.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:56 | 3601301 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

Bitcoin will destroy itself once people realize there are basically an infinite number of possible bitcoin algorithms that can come into existence.  Unlike gold and silver, the encryption representing the value is valueless.  Since any number of encrypted coinage system can be made, they are all worthless if not backed by anything like a government with a huge military or gold and silver which hold their own value.  Once people realize this, then its price will go to zero.  I wish I could short it.

 

I really don't think governments will care.  If they do care, it'll be because they don't want to see people being suckered.  There may be nothing they can do though and will have to let people learn the hard way.  sad


Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:15 | 3601331 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Bitcoin has crashed several times, and each time it's had a higher price floor.  The reason Bitcoin has value even though the source code is replicable is because it's a protocol.  Just like anyone can create their own language, anyone can make their own crypto currency.  But people prefer to use Bitcoin because it is used by other people.  It has the network effect backing it.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:00 | 3601412 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

You're largely right (no sane person will claim Bitcoin is money) but at the moment Bitcoin enjoys practical monopoly in the crypto currency market. It won't be so forever but for time being it's safe. I think it's (the protocol and currency) got 2 years before they attempt to interfere with it.
Government: BS, they don't give a shit about sheeple. They are worried about their revenue stream (tax).

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:00 | 3601642 Haole
Haole's picture

Congratulations, you're one of the few people on ZH who still speaks about Bitcoin before knowing of what you speak.

The encryption itself is not how Bitcoin derives it's value so much as the value is in the network and blockchain itself.

You can short it, now go find-out how and do it.  I triple dare you, go for it.

Oddly and coincidently, the U.S. "gov" seems to be the most worried about the success of Bitcoin and certainly not because they're worried about people being suckered.  Yeah, they're (administration, MSM, etc.) essentially coersing people into the $US, the stock and bond markets because the're worried about people being suckered... You speak of learning the hard way?  That's a good one.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:19 | 3601338 Skin666
Skin666's picture

So the market develops a programme to counter the malware... 

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:44 | 3601386 malikai
malikai's picture

You may be surprised to know that Your Just Government has been purchasing 0day exploits and using the very same exploits on you and your systems for a very long time.

They don't call it "Total Information Awareness" for nothing.

All the above really says is that they want to make it legal. Which of course matters not one bit, except for the fact that RIAA and MPAA want to be able to do the same thing - and not get in trouble for it.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:55 | 3601672 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no way any such spy program can make it to mine. Mine's Linux. All compiled from source, no way in.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:53 | 3601297 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

excellent bitcoin analysis...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaEEyLXN3Z0

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:05 | 3601314 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Q. At 09:38 you mentioned that you had thought of a really good upgrade to the cryptocurrencys. Would you? like to share?

 

A. For one, there is room for improvement in bitcoin/litecoin since massive computing value is flushed away to "mine" the coins. It could be set up that, although total # created stayed same, for every coin "mined" 9 were also created and given to either a basket of charities or a libertarian law firm to provide legal protection for the currency. It may be difficult to see, but this would reduce "mining" waste by 90% with the lost value given to something useful as well as providing good press.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:16 | 3601333 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

This is hilariously stupid.  Who would voluntarily use that currency?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:48 | 3601394 malikai
malikai's picture

It wouldn't happen. The principle reason people hold bitcoins is as an inflation hedge. Take that away and it's over - and everyone knows it.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:54 | 3601664 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Are you kidding?  I can send anyone in the world thousands of dollars instantly and anonymously without filling out any paperwork.  That's fucking amazing.  Even aside from the inflation hedge, Bitcoin has massive value.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:01 | 3601689 css1971
css1971's picture

Go on then. Send just 1 cent to me; payment for receiving my awesome wisdom.

 

I don't have a Bitcoin account BTW.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:11 | 3602020 draug
draug's picture

Nor do you have much awesome wisdom.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:27 | 3602043 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Give me your email address.  I can send it to you that way.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:06 | 3601702 malikai
malikai's picture

No, I'm not kidding. I said 'hold', not 'send' or 'trade'.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:55 | 3601407 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

What a great plan!
To save money and have the legal protection team hit the road running, let's appoint the Fed or SEC to provide legal protection to this new currency!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:21 | 3601468 Jay
Jay's picture

Bitcoin mining waste? Compared to the waste of digging gold out of the ground only to put it back in the ground?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:49 | 3601657 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

#1 that's not waste, that's store of purified gold

#2 lakes aren't the ground, long boating accidents

#3 wasted cpu time & electricity on bitcoin mining COULD have helped me make new inventions http://www.genetic-programming.com

A much better use of computers.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:00 | 3602254 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@Rusty Shorts

The "waste" of mining gets harped on all the time, usually by people who don't understand the network and how it processes transactions.

There is no waste - every cycle is used to verify the transactions in each "block", the collective hashing power of all the miners prevents double-spends and bad agents taking over the network.

It continually amazes me that there's this perceived "waste" issue, yet nobody goes on about how much time and energy is wasted on physical printing presses for fiat, stampers for fiat-based coins and the gobs and gobs of electricity each bank uses, the employees of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve, etc..

I'd say the government issue of currency and its subsequent mechanisms of transport and security waste magnitudes of resources beyond what Bitcoin effectively applies in the network.

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:55 | 3601303 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Well, just replace the printer for a bitcoinminer at the CB's and the party can go on. One world monetary union. Worked for Europe.

s/

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:02 | 3602257 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@debtor of last resort

The big difference here is Bitcoin isn't centralized and run by a bunch of idiot politicians who couldn't balance their checkbook if they tried.

You may want to discover the other differences for yourself before making such ridiculous pronouncements.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:59 | 3601306 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Both Bitcoin and PM take wind out of the fiat*FRB sail.  Both work nicely in tandem.  What's the problem*?  It's my money -- would the gold/silver guys be happier if I stayed with fiat/FRN's?

*If you're not a shill or cognitively impaired?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:29 | 3601356 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Fiat or bitcoin? The answer is obvious.

 

Anytime that you do not use bitcoin, you actively "vote" for the current system to continue.

 

 

PMs for saving, and bitcoin for spending. Simple.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:36 | 3601373 Skin666
Skin666's picture

+ 1

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:52 | 3601402 espirit
espirit's picture

Got to be fair to the bitcoin movement, and most refer to pm holders as "goldbugs/silverbugs".  Sooo... the moniker "bitbugs" comes to mind.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:13 | 3601695 Haole
Haole's picture

Good for those whom are all of the above IMHO.  ;)

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:09 | 3601317 InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

Bitcoin is pyramid scheme where creators and early adopters are trying to get rich in expense of those who join later. Majority of first, easy complexity bitcoins, are in the hands of creators, who keep their identities secret.

99% of people who buy bitcoins have only one intention, to sell those usless strings of jibberish to a greater fool for a higher price, thats it

I feel sorry for those who spend their hard earned cash to buy thos crap, especially at current price.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:10 | 3601321 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

I've made way more money in Bitcoin than you have in precious metals or stocks.  I guarantee that.  And I'll make way more than you in the future.

Anyone who believes Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme is a numbskull who deserves to lose out on this tremendous advance in technology.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:19 | 3601334 InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

LOL, who said that you cant make money with pyramid scheme? You can make a lot of money with ponzi, but that doesnt change the fact that its a ponzi.

>>I've made way more money in Bitcoin than you

Thats exactly the point, you made money or even got rich doing nothing, but in expense of whom? Out of thin air? No, your new found wealth came from somebody, from those greater fools who bought those usless strings with zero intrinsic value from you at way higher price, they lost, you won... thats the defenition of a pyramid scheme my friend.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:21 | 3601342 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I am hoping greater fools will buy silver at $5000 an ounce. How are silver or gold bugs morally different from any rogues who buys stuff low then sells it higher.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:28 | 3601347 InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

At least gold and silver have intrinsic value, there are A LOT of legitimate uses for them. That unfortunately can not be said about bitcoins though.

EDIT: Oh, and i forgot... gold and silver are supposed to PROTECT your purchasing power against inflation, not make you rich out of the blue.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:33 | 3601363 Skin666
Skin666's picture

No they don't. They have subjective value. The market values the PM's as money and a store of wealth...

 

Others subjectively value bitcoin as an anonymous transactional internet currency... That is the reason its value has skyrocketted...

 

The market will decide the future of bitcoin, not governments...

 

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:34 | 3601366 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Good luck getting your gold through an airport, or transferring it instantly to anyone in the world.  And who owns the most gold today?  Ah, yes.  Governments.  Good luck beating them at their own game.  Weve had gold for thousands of years and it didnt do shit to stop government tyranny.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:46 | 3601523 akak
akak's picture

 

And who owns the most gold today?  Ah, yes.  Governments.

Clearly, you do not know what you are talking about.  World central banks/governments (same difference) hold only around 15% of the world stock of gold --- and even that assumes that one believes their stated gold reserve figures at face value.  Given that it is highly likely that the US, among other governments, have leased out much of their physical gold in the (vain) attempt to hold down its price, I would not be surprised if world governments/central banks held less than 10% of the world's gold.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:47 | 3601649 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

#1 boats

#2 instant = in-person. You don't need to transact gold all around the world instantly, nor anything else. You're just a little spoiled from this era of trading. You'll learn soon enough security is worth the delay.

#3 the tyranny of infinitely printed money definitely ends repeatedly and security of transactions is restored by use of gold and silver. Every single time.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:59 | 3601682 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Highwaymen have been stealing gold in-transit for centuries.  Cant do that to my bitcoins.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:33 | 3601927 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Can easily. Just set up a shop to sell you something for BTC then send you nothing in return.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:29 | 3602046 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Why would i transact with an address that has zero reputation history?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:50 | 3602086 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Because you have no way to verify the reputation and it won't look like that.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:00 | 3602107 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

do you just hand your cash out like that??

 

think of it as digital cash and you might get a fucking clue to what you're talking about

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:14 | 3602273 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

It's the same with digital cash and that's why I consider that unsafe too.

However, with most digital cash transactions they are reversible. With bitcoin this is impossible and that's extremely dangerous.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 06:36 | 3602974 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Escrow

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 10:21 | 3603434 Saro
Saro's picture

This is exactly why eBay couldn't make it as a company, and went bankrupt shortly after coming online.

Wait, what?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:34 | 3601617 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

so how's that protection going?

are you just jelle that bitcoin is performing the way you want gold/silver to?

 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:14 | 3602025 draug
draug's picture

There is no such thing as intrinsic value. It's an oxymoron.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 07:35 | 3603029 GoldMeUp
GoldMeUp's picture

By this definition, bitcoin has intrinsic value as well.  The blockchain is useful for very strong proof-of-existance (proving a document existed at a given time), proof of overship (see coloured coins), and a whole lot of other potential future applications.  Bitcoin is a platform which can be built upon.  All of that computing power (more powerful than the top 500 super computers combined) give it intrinsic value because no one has the power to manipulate or reverse the blockchain.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:44 | 3601647 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That's a foolish bet. The day is coming when silver has the purchasing power of today's fiatbux x 5000 but those fiatbux won't exist anymore at that time. US dollars and zimbabwe dollars will be united where they belong.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:01 | 3601418 espirit
espirit's picture

Those tremendous advances in technology also brought you Chernobyl and Fukushima.  Prolly a few more waiting in the wings.

My bet is we've seen "peak" technology, and sunk costs fallacies will insure civilized society will have to move on.

I can offer you up a good deal on a "slightly" used bridge.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:01 | 3601549 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Very astute observation...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:43 | 3601641 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That's a crazy bet and I want no part of it.

Photosynthesis now hijacked for solar power: make electricity and fuel

http://intowit.com/2013/05/11/university-of-georgia-stops-plant-photosyn...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:39 | 3601790 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Here is the future of power production.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqIo4WJJL90&list=HL1369686978

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:34 | 3601930 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

nope. Transit is not generation. Electric fields of the Earth don't generate power for you, they merely allow you to move it using the ionosphere. Fuel, motion, heat, are the sources of energy from which conversion will take place or there will be no power to use.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:06 | 3602265 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@InspectorBird

Should've kept your avatar head in your hole, pal.

Some people have made money investing in stock before the others came in - by your definition that is a pyramid scheme.

Some people have made money by buying houses in the right locations at the right price and then selling to late comers - by your definition that is a pyramid scheme.

Some people buy antique cars and restore them, selling them to people later on who didn't bother to - by your definition that is a pyramid scheme.

It seems your definition of "Pyramid Scheme" is in need of an overhaul - and while we're at it, your avatar too.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:22 | 3601345 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

theres a diff between making money, and protecting your purchase power, its a sad day when the two are confused.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:25 | 3601349 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Hi Ho BitCoin.

Wow it sounds better the more you say it.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:02 | 3601426 espirit
espirit's picture

"BitBug"?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:26 | 3601352 fuckitall
fuckitall's picture

Bitcoin will be an illegal "black market currency" outlawed by US and other central-bank-controlled nations sooner or later, probably sooner. 

Bitcoin might be a great concept for a de-centralized digital currency, but de-centralized is the problem, central banks and their govt puppets don't want any currency around they can't control and track and charge people for the "privilege" of using *their* currency. 

That's what federal income tax is in America.  A rather large fee Americans pay for the "privilege" of using Federal Reserve Notes issued by a private-sector bank.  (IRS is part of the Fed.  Money collected by IRS goes to the Fed, not the US govt.  It might be credited toward money US govt borrows from the Fed, but it still goes to the Fed.) 

Of course there's nothing else available in a practical sense, US govt currency was taken out of circulation years ago. 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:35 | 3601369 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Drugs and alcohol have also been made illegal now and in the past...

 

Did/does that stop people from drinking and taking drugs?

 

How are they going to stop it?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:27 | 3601476 fuckitall
fuckitall's picture

Not saying they'll stop it.  It'll just be illegal, like drugs are now. 

It'll also give govt more "probable cause" to seize financial records companies accepting Bitcoin payments, track down who made those payments, go after them individually, seize computers (and whatever else they  wana take), confiscate bitcoin wallets, etc, then prosecute possibly.

Bitcoiners haven't thought this thing thru very well.  They're opening another door for govt invasion of their home and possessions, just like drug users are now.  Not saying it would happen in every case, just like drug users don't get busted in every case.   They're just giving govt another opportunity.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:48 | 3601527 Skin666
Skin666's picture

If governments start cracking down on bitcoin as a way out of fiat, even if said fiat is becoming increasingly worthless, the masses will revolt... 

There is no way that the government has the manpower or the expertise to even attempt shutting down bitcoin. They are powerless to stop the free market...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:23 | 3601582 jomama
jomama's picture

 

the masses will revolt... 

 

a good 95% of americans don't even know what the fuck bitcoin is.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 07:30 | 3603019 qwerty55
qwerty55's picture

a good 99 % of Americans dont even know what ZeroHedge is. This does not mean either is without value.

Imagine what will happen if even 50% of Americans get to know and some at least become interested and bitcoin users/owners?

This is demonstrated by the correlation between google searches and the price of the coin. More searches = more purchases= higher prices.

However the ultimate goal has to be a stable price. What speculators are "betting" on is that the level of that stable price will be much higher than it is now before the 95% of Americans get to know of it.

The price jump this year can be directly attributable to media reports generating interest. These reports are snowballing and as long as they increase so will adoption almost in "lock step"

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:40 | 3601632 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Actually it's easy as pie. Analyze sequences of packets to see if they look like bitcoin transactions. Make ISP's block them by law. fine ISP's that fail to do so until they're bankrupt.

Before you know it the Internet will be bitcoin free in the USA or will be very small and slow mesh networks.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:09 | 3602268 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@MeelionDollerBogus

Yeah, that didn't work so well for campuses that tried to stop torrents. Sure, the kids that installed the default client and didn't know jack about computers got nailed, but the ones that understood how to tunnel traffic and SSL/VPN had zero problems at all.

Packetshapers have limits, they aren't the magical devices that your statement makes them seem to be.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 10:23 | 3603441 Saro
Saro's picture

You can run Bitcoin over Tor.  Analyze that.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 17:45 | 3601962 fuckitall
fuckitall's picture

In America? 

Americans will never revolt.  Those xxx million guns in private hands are worthless for any 2A purpose.

Riots maybe.  Revolt never. 

And geeks rioting?  Over bitcoin?   Or anything else?  Sorry, can't picture that.  

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:32 | 3602053 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

No need to riot.  Bitcoin allows us to ignore the government.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:28 | 3602528 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

I'll jump in.

 

"Bitcoin allows us to ignore the government."

 

But, if it is outlawed, same as "drugs" (not sayin' either should be), then using bitcoin opens up the possibility that gov't goons knock down your door at 3 am to seize you and your electronics. Not because they "traced" the bitcoin trail, but because they get the records from that store you bought a teeshirt from using bitcoin and track you that way. 

 

Chuck Shumer wants bitcoins outlawed, and by goD, he will try his bestest. 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20070268-17/senators-target-bitcoin-currency-citing-drug-sales/

 

Al Capone was ever only convicted of tax evasion; not paying taxes on his "illegal" profits. 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:00 | 3601547 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Be afraid. Very afraid. Be a good sheep! And soon, Gov't will have death panels and maybe even outlaw living and breathing!

 

As I go to smoke some "illegal" drugs...

 

A person has to draw the line on who owns his body of his/her body, and bankster-ism, somewhere.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:38 | 3601629 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

true, but government is inventing opportunity by every other means too, so this angle isn't nearly as much a concern as the irreversibility of transactions that ought to be reversible sometimes and the on-grid-only problem which for me is the big nail in the coffin. Money isn't money to me unless I can use it 100% off-grid.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 13:38 | 3601375 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

BRICS: Challenging the global economic order

 

When in doubt, spread your interest into alternative virtual currency. Just don’t be caught with your wallet open, wealth assets will be seized.  

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:27 | 3601478 Jay
Jay's picture

"The utilization of bitcoin in the real world, outside of the internet..."

 

I don't understand this part of the article. I thought Bitcoin had to be used on the internet so everybody's database could keep current with all the transactions.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:39 | 3601502 laomei
laomei's picture

It should be noted that the only interest Chinese have in it is mining the crap out of the thing and selling it off for cash. 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:41 | 3601506 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

Thank you, Tyler. We have not had a ButtCoin article for the whiners in some time.

The pent up energy they have from drinking coffee in their Mom's basement had to be reaching incredible levels.

Yet again, ZH has come through!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:19 | 3602034 draug
draug's picture

Hey, I'm not drinking coffee in my mom's basement.

I prefer tea.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:13 | 3602274 TraderTimm
TraderTimm's picture

@Divine Wind

Well, when Tyler gets distracted by the latest plunge-then-rally (no really guys its going to hell THIS time - for realz) he swings around and does a piece on bitcoin to pump the pageviews/adserves.

The irony of course is when your job (you're employed, right? ... right?) presents you the option to get paid in them. But then again I'm assuming you have an occupation that doesn't involve shoveling horse manure.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:22 | 3601583 HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

The propaganda  starts with: "Bitcoin has made significant progress towards becoming the world's first truly global currency over the past few years."

 

How long has this pyramid been a buildin'?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:38 | 3601627 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

email is a fad too

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!