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Worried About Global Warming, Then End The Fed... And Other Thought Experiments

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by MickeyMan via The World Complex blog,

Denial of authoritarianism--no, end the Fed

Salon has an article on denial of science by mainstream society. The article asks why people deny the unpleasant truths that modern science has to offer--apparently preferring to chance of the impending hell of global warming and non-fluoridated drinking water.

The thing the authors don't understand is that the general public is not pushing back against the science per se. They like the science. Science gives them big, flat-screen TVs, Blu-Ray players, cars, airplanes, special effects, laptops with more computing power than ENIAC, the internet, and so forth. They love science.

They don't like authoritarians telling them what to do. So bugger off.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

Okay, I'm a little calmer now. There is another point in this entire discussion I would like to mention.

Past environmental issues have been dealt in a top-down, authoritarian fashion. Acid rain and ozone depletion were both attacked, with considerable success, by legislating against the sources. But this only worked because the main sources were few in number, easily tracked, and there were solutions available for the problem. CFCs were replaced by other coolants with less effect on the ozone layer, but this solution was only possible because the alternate coolants existed.

In earlier articles we have discussed the issue of multistability in the climate system. During periods of relative stability, negative feedbacks dominate, with the effect that the system appears to resist changes. The capacity for resistance to change is not infinite, and eventually a tipping point is reached, beyond which positive feedbacks dominate, leading to very rapid change. This idea would suggest that the climate system will resist changes to atmospheric composition for a time, which may be why there hasn't been the warming that was predicted by the IPCC models (pdf).

Governments would like people to stop emitting so much CO2 (through driving, power requirements, and industrial use). Well, alright then. 1) What replacement is there that won't significantly impact on lifestyle; and 2) has the government considered its role in the CO2 problem?

In an earlier article I discussed how the increasing number of disasters in the US is more a function of urban sprawl than any increase in frequency of natural events.

A big part of the reason that per capita CO2 emissions are higher in North America than in Europe is our urban structure--in particular the vast suburbs that surround most city centres. The big suburbs mean lots of people commuting, but the density of the sprawl is too low to favour high-capacity transit.

Big suburbs are only possible due to easy money. With no easy money, working families would not aspire to owning (alongside their bank) a huge home with a vast lawn and with neighbours within 5 m. Without easy money there wouldn't be two or three cars in the driveway.

Governments like this model of city development--it gives people hope, which helps keep the system going. Banks certainly like it--there's a lot of interest payments stretched out over 30 years, and until recently, people would practically starve rather than miss mortgage payments. People imagine they are happy, although I wonder what the future generations will think of people who willingly bought homes that took 30 years to pay for, instead of the more historically common few weeks to months. But I don't think the owners of these houses have done as well on the deal as the government or the banks.

So having created the template for massive CO2 emissions, the authoritarians wish to deny responsibility and shift the blame to their debt-serfs. Because the debt-serfs are refusing to absorb the costs, the authoritarians decry their denial of science.

If you really care about global warming, end the Fed.


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Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:08 | 3602473 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Hmm.. He has a point with the economics of burbs.

But DAMN if I'm moving to downtown Chicago!! F- that! I like my burbs. Fewer liberals and fewer gangsters (one in the same).

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:10 | 3602506 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Ending the Fed would actually increase productivity and the amount of goods being produced. It's keeping the Fed that reallocates resources unproductively, ultimately causing humanity to produce and consume less and holding back population growth. The Fed is a progressive, socialist, huge government, global warming watchdog, animal lover, people hater's dream.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:22 | 3602527 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

The current big-city structure is impossible for middle-class Americans (especially with children). It is full of wealthy liberals and people sucking on the gov't teet. The middle class drives in to work... then drives home to a good neighborhood.

If the cities are to be livable, we need some huge reforms. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:25 | 3602530 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

The "browning " of the cities-"white flight"-they(we) just keep moving further and further out.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:54 | 3602616 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

You REALLY want to end global warming (which aint warming anymore anyway) end the SUN because that is the primary cause.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:49 | 3602699 erg
erg's picture

True that. I was tired of this subject years ago. I enjoyed rubbing the Copenhagen results in scientists faces. Good times.

Maurice Strong's First Earth Summit in RIO '92 quotes...etc.

Global Warming, Global Cooling, Global Dimming. A cricket can't fart without it being blamed on climate change.

I hear earthworms are next to be blamed for planetary flatulence.

I'm not sure what their problem is with those little fuckers. They'll probably have to raid our gardens...not just the ones on the front lawn. In back too. And rip out community gardens a day before they're planned to be harvested by the locals.

You can offer all the logical claims a sane mind could muster and they don't care if they're wrong. They forge ahead despite the fact. Relentess.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 03:02 | 3602882 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

In Chernobyl proximity, earth worm is to grow excessive of 18cm. Glow in dark and when cut open, emit most potent aroma. This is certain to cause global warming!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 04:36 | 3602929 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 05:14 | 3602944 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Some is grow to 30cm and even to 40cm, but is problematic. Is sometime found inconvenient placement.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 06:24 | 3602968 msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

And if they are like that for 4 or more hours you have to call an ambulance or the police.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 06:46 | 3602980 negative rates
negative rates's picture

End in z Fed.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:44 | 3603118 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

.039% of the atmosphere is CO2

we are responsible for 5% of that

or, .00195% of tha atmosphere

and has no bearing what so ever on weather or temperature

water vapor however is a major climate driver due to the circulation of water cycle

a major driver of the water cycle is the sun

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:39 | 3603669 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Even better than ending the Fed would be to end property taxes.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:45 | 3603674 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Even better than ending the Fed would be to end property taxes. That way we could all stay on our property and be self sufficient, without having to leave just to chase the almighty green paper. Then it wouldn't matter who printed paper, or who they gave it to. All that would matter would be growing your own food, and getting along with your neighbors. Just like humans have lived since the beginning of time. 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 06:28 | 3602971 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Tovarish Alatovkrap, you are one funny mf. It`s comments like yours that justify my time spent here.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:38 | 3603279 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Nyet. Too cold.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:49 | 3603707 dynomutt
dynomutt's picture


Continue to be patriotic, tovarisch.  The central planners are our saviors!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:25 | 3603872 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Down with Volcanoes!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:52 | 3602608 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Tying global warming to the Fed is a bit of a reach.  But let's not forget, this is the Fed we're talking about.  Oxygen should be made illegal if they breathe it. 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:03 | 3602633 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Tying global warming to anything is a bit of a reach...


This is a stupid topic & therefore I expect a lot of stupid comments... I know ~ Let's just blame the Syrians & Iranians...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:20 | 3602641 kujo
kujo's picture

We are all the frog in boiling water, the Fed is irrelevant at this point.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:22 | 3602744 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Face it:  The article is a hit-piece to stir up climate warming wars on a thin holiday evening.

Gotta get those page views...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 02:43 | 3602868 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Face it:  The article is a hit-piece to stir up climate warming wars on a thin holiday evening.

Gotta get those page views...

Watch out for this one, the Racoon is on to Tyler!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 03:03 | 3602883 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Beware of Racoon with pliers!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 07:46 | 3603039 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

You should ask if Racoon knows squirrel and moose?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:54 | 3603343 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

More familiar with Gideon's Bible.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:33 | 3603652 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Was it the only thing you found in the room?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 10:02 | 3603382 PT
PT's picture

Rocky Raccon sez:  "Face it:  The article is a hit-piece to stir up climate warming wars on a thin holiday evening."

+1 000 000 if I could.

I'll start thinking about global warming after the whole world adopts a one child policy.  But as long as our govt pays people to have babies, I'll believe that the global warming propaganda is more about making people feel guilty for being alive than anything else.  Are we wrecking our planet?  Probably.  But the fact remains that all the so-called solutions presented are terrifically one-sided:  inconvenience and tax the fuck out of Joe 6Pack while telling him it is all his fault for being alive.

Again, our govt pays people to have babies.  But then those babies grow up and are supposed to feel guilty about wanting clean water and electricity and refrigerators and washing machines and TVs and a decent sized home / block of land etc etc, well to all those greenies and guvfucks I say, "FUCK OFF AND EAT SHIT AND DIE YOU HEAP OF SHIT DICKHEADS!!!!!!  YOU WANNA SAVE THE PLANET???  YOU FIRST!!!"

Stop flying overseas all the time.  Why do we need yet another tallest building in the world?  At what height do the energy inputs become ridiculous?  Why can't people afford to live closer to where they work?  Why don't we have shops within walking distance?  Can we now ban built in obsolescence?  No, if it makes some rich fuck richer then it'll never be on the environmental agenda.  For example, here in Australia the guvshits banned the old fashioned incandescent light globe, because it was "bad for the environment", and made us replace them with compact fluoros.  What they totally ignored was the fact the old incandescents aren't trendy any more - modern places have dozens of down lights.  I once counted 18 downlights in an area that could have been serviced by three incandescents or three fluoros.  Lemme think about this: 18 x 50 W = 900 Watts, versus 120 - 150 Watts using old style lighting.  I wonder what's better for the environment?  But not a peep from guvfucks because someone has to make money selling downlights and compact fluoros.  No incandescents for you, granny!

On the other hand, if you make J6P really poor, then he can't afford to buy anything and he won't damage the environment.  If J6P doesn't have a car or a job to drive it to, then he won't damage the environment.  If J6P is homeless and lives under a bridge, he is minimizing his carbon footprint.  THAT is how the govt and the greenies plan to save the world.

When our ancestors lacked water, they built dams and pipelines.  When they lacked electricity, they built hydro-electricity machines.  These operations took brains, and balls, and created real jobs and gave real infrastructure to society.  But the current mob of shits just make everyone feel guilty for being alive and puts everyone on rations.  If we're already on rations, how would we survive if disaster struck?  We won't.  Because the current shits in power don't have brains, don't have balls, and can't create anything.  I partly blame the modern university system, where instead of only the smartest going to uni, the richest go to uni, regardless of brains.  They get a job in the water board and instead of trying to source new water supplies, they just put everyone on rations.  Some idiot gets a job developing power infrastructure and instead of trying to discover better power sources, he just tells everyone to use different light globes.  Then the stupid shitfuck gets promoted because he saved the government / some big corporation bucket loads of cash because they didn't have to build new infrastructure and they spent SFA on Research and Development.  Did you get a discount on your power / water / any other bill because dickheads in charge no longer spend money on infrastructure or R&D?  Didn't think so.  Oh yeah, and in case any water authority or govt scumfuckers are reading this, lemme give you a hint:  "Water saving toilets" DON'T SAVE WATER IF YOU HAVE TO FLUSH THEM THREE TIMES!!!!"

You wanna make someone feel guilty for owning a piece of land?  Well fuck you, you heap of shit, you owe them your life!

This is the abridged version of my, "Even if we are destroying the Environment, TPTB are just using it as a reason to fuck us all over and have no interest in solving the problem, especially if it impacts THEIR quality of life" rant.  One day I may make a complete version.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:40 | 3603281 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Not in the least; explain any other way that America would be able to manage reserve currency status without being the world's biggest credit-money behemoth.


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 04:32 | 3602927 Death and Gravity
Death and Gravity's picture

"It's keeping the Fed that reallocates resources unproductively, ultimately causing humanity to produce and consume less and holding back population growth."

Population growth correlates extremely poorly with money supply or money supply rate og change, and far better with a measure of social development, say, the Human Development Index.

Much as I dislike the Fed and its cohorts or enablers, this is taking the bashing too far.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:29 | 3602539 GoldForCash
GoldForCash's picture

All this and still no real proof of global warming. Except Al Gore stands to make millions once we do believe.....

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:36 | 3602555 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Global warming? Global cooling is here. You can't deny science!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:47 | 3602832 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

 "Global cooling is here."

I can believe it - in San Francisco for Memorial Day and it is raining.

If you want to bet on Climate Change, bet on a new ice age. 

BTW. The scientific Global Warming Theory predicts a change of about 2 degrees per century. This is too small to even be noticed on a decade to decade basis. All the hyperbole about hurricane Sandy and the Oklahoma tornado is pure BS. 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:29 | 3603889 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Up with Volcanoes!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:38 | 3603104 Drachma
Drachma's picture

There are three levels of 'science' IMO. On the bottom, there is of course the popularized, denatured, pseudo-science fed to the rabble, used to facilitate sociopolitical agendas and to keep the status quo in check. There is the military/black-ops level science, always many steps ahead of the current consumer applications, and dutifully keeping the rabble believing in aliens and chubacabras. Finally there is the always hidden-hand of ascendant knowledge of the priesthoods, which has been used throughout the ages to make the profane believe in magic. How does that saying go, "Knowledge is power." Our hierarchical civilization is the result of hierarchical knowledge; the pyramid of 'truth' so to speak. The way I see it, the worlds inequalities exist ultimately as a result of unequal dissemination of knowledge, both in quantity and quality.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:51 | 3602605 prains
prains's picture

Ken  Lay was CEO of a criminal enterprise called ENRON and their crimes were aided and abetted by Anderson Accounting

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 04:16 | 3602918 prains
prains's picture

wow ZH thought police didn't remove this comment yet removed similar comment on the weekend, shift change from the minions perhaps

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 04:20 | 3602922 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Frito Lay is CEO of culinary enterprise and is make very crunchy snack.

Is hard for finding in Minsk, but now is become popular item in large Russian city like Moscow. Boris anxious for to stock up, maybe is good investment.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:42 | 3603289 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

And I want Paprika Pringles only sold in Zooropa.

Prisoner exchange?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:56 | 3602475 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

If you like humanity - end the FED

If you want prosperity - end the FED

If you don't want to see your children enslaved - end the FED

If you believe in God - end the FED

If you don't believe in God - end the FED

The only question is: HOW?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:04 | 3602635 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Print yourself up a bunch of counterfeit money... give it to your pals & go to town... Oh wait!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 03:06 | 3602884 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

LOL! Boris is se what you are do there! You are approximate behavior of Central Banker, print own money and go to town. You are very sneaky. Boris is report you to Secret Service!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 03:22 | 3602890 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Boris, question on you off the topic but is wondering. Do you are still finding the ample supply copper ores? Is found solution satisfactory removing the plastic contaminates? Much wishing you is the continued successful minings.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 04:16 | 3602917 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is supply mother of wife with pick axe, so now much is for safer extraction from ground. For extraction of ore from polymer contaminate, Boris try organize "stripper party" and invite both adult and child to participate. Is not go so well with Apartment management and now Boris family is to search new rental accommodation. For now, Boris invest in cardboard.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 04:24 | 3602924 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


For now, Boris invest in cardboard.

Is temporary setback. Perhaps can having local constable with interest in copper ore lean on apartment management. After all, is impinging on his share the profits when copper ore is delayed processing.

Wishing you havings is all the good luck.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 05:10 | 3602940 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

You are very much to be kind! Unfortunate for copper extraction, local enforcer of civil code is replace. During copper excavation, how do you say, sink hole, is swallow police car... with policeman. Boris is now move operation, but is find more use is cardboard.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:56 | 3602476 PiltdownMan
PiltdownMan's picture

But what about Brazil, india and China? No expansive subdivisions, but plenty of CO2.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:01 | 3602484 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

When they see that we stopped the pollution, they'll be so ashamed that they'll stop too.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:03 | 3602494 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

No, they will not be ashamed nor will they stop emitting CO2.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:08 | 3602502 malikai
malikai's picture

Who'se gonna buy all their crap and pay to ship it many thousands of miles if not for the FED?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:46 | 3603311 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

It's assumed that once the Gn (for some n >= 7 and <= 20) have crippled themselves and their industry, that the developing world will follow them quickly down the drain.

I'm not sure trading credit-money manipulation of sustainable resources for our current manipulation of dwindling resources is a win per se, but there are plenty of ways to solve the science without involving the goobers or corporate kleptos to play slopjockey man.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:58 | 3602481 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I don't have any idea how he got there. But I agree with his last 3 words.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:19 | 3602519 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I haven't read the Salon article, likely won't, but I think the interesting trend of late are the articles critcal of those who don't conform to the manufactured POV. The NYTimes had an article last week about "conspiracy theories" that sounded nearly identical to one the week before in the Huffington Post and now this one. They are working hard.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:29 | 3602818 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

I'm doing my honours thesis in cognitive psychology (don't laugh!) and all of the professors and half of the students are researching what the best forms of propaganda are for convincing serfs to accept more taxes and less wages. This research is being funded by a government grant too. They talk about 'free marketeers' and 'conservatives' as if they are the enemy. I questioned their views last week and since then I've had a very poor reception amongst them. I feel like I'm in some Orwellian institute. 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 05:13 | 3602942 Acet
Acet's picture

Modern Marketing was born in the late 1950s when ideas from Behavioral Science were adopted.

Or putting things in other words: today's "consumer" was created by the application of scientific principles into training and motivating humans to do things like buy on impulse. This is the basis of Consumer Society: people trained in a maner not too dissimilar to training dogs.

So yeah, abusing psychology to manipulate people has been going on for quite aa long time - it can even be said that it's the basis of today's Western Society.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:31 | 3603094 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I think you're off by 30-40 years. Edward Bernays was on this as early as WWI. Here is a quote from a book he published in 1928:

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.

His clients included governments, politicians and corporations... the lines between these became increasingly blury. Today there are no lines.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:33 | 3603096 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

read Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent". You will discover how such an Orwellian institute can come to be.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:58 | 3603363 malikai
malikai's picture

An excellent book.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:03 | 3604066 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Self-described "Free Marketers" and "Conservatives" are usually nothing more than statists of a different stripe these days anyhow.  "Free Markets"=rigging the game in favor of preferred industries.  "Conservative"-restricting the choices of people they don't like through the strong arm of the start but just voice an opinion you think their religion is stupid or the contradiction of their love of all things military and police with their supposed love of liberty and you are oppressing them.  They have learned so well to mimic the same behaviors of the ultra-PC left they only thing that distinguishes them apart are the slogans they bleat. 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:01 | 3602488 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

How much CO2 did this horseshit article pump into the atmosphere? 

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:04 | 3602492 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The CO2 problem? omg lolololololol!!!!


The CO2 component of the Earth's atmosphere is .035%


omg omg omg lulz lulz lulz

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:01 | 3602630 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

And I thought the 'scientists' said that snowy winters would soon be a thing of the past. To be fair of course snowy springs and summers are a totally different matter...

During the deep solar minimum of 1816 (we are currently experiencing another) recurrent frosts devastated crops in the NorthEast. The Detroit river even experienced some amount of ice on it in ALL the months of the summer. Incidentally low solar minimums also correlate with higher levels of seismic and volcanic activity...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:27 | 3602670 kujo
kujo's picture

The scientific community is pretty fucking scared, that scares me. Drink the good wine now.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 10:57 | 3603564 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Polar bears in Detroit will straighten some shit out.


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:37 | 3603662 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You do have an ability to completely bugger things up... Not to mention the creation of flawed strawmen and the like... 


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:47 | 3603317 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

400 ppm and climbing.


Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:02 | 3602493 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Less CO2 in Europe?


Bull fucking shit.



Tue, 05/28/2013 - 07:04 | 3602989 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Less urban sprawl, higher city pop densities, more train commuting, less cars, shorter commuting distances, and nearly no McMansions

fact is, the US is now more "urban" than europe. that is counting the suburbs, which btw in many eu cities it's where the poor live

make a comparison of how much gasoline the two consume for driving, if you want to shock yourself - all in all, eu cities are more energy "efficient"

of course europe has the advantage of cities that grew more slowly and "organically", and the big ones swallowed villages that were old, too

meanwhile gasoline was always a big target for the taxman, here

funny how the article connects authoritarianism (& the FED) with what imho was more a lack of smart urban planning, mostly allowing btw whatever developers wanted - which was "Just The American Dream", though from a continental perspective it's more the AngloSaxon "One Family, One Castle" dream

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:05 | 3602497 BandGap
BandGap's picture

WTF are we worried about CO2? Global warming is an utter farce, fucking CO2 isn't even in the top 3 of greenhouse gases. For fuck's sake, more greenhouse gases are produced by rotting organic matter and farting cows (methane) than any other source of greenhouse gases. CO2 is a fucking lagging indicator, that's why it is UP and the earth is COOLING.

Hey, and guess what? There still is a hole in the fucking ozone layer, asshole. Over 98% of CFCs are produced by nature, the fucking ocean off gases CFCs formed by sunlight and halogenated salts. The ozone layer was more control bullshit.

End the Fed and end the use of science for political purposes. Fucktards.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:09 | 3602505 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Fuck global warming, it's a scam pulled by the likes of the Fed - debt pushers.
What a bullshit article.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:25 | 3602531 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Virtually everything the government does is a scam to transfer wealth to the politically connected.

Of course the global warming Lysenkoists are no exception.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:33 | 3602547 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:37 | 3602561 malikai
malikai's picture

Oh, dear god. Not a drought in Texas. Shit.

Everyone turn off your everything because a drought in Texas spells it out plain and clear to us all.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:40 | 3602569 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture



Might want to check your aquifiers and long term rain patterns. Seriously: get back to me when you've read the science on it.



Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:52 | 3602609 malikai
malikai's picture

I'd rather go to bed.

Good night. And good trolling.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:00 | 3602620 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Aww. That's SO passive-aggressive, we LOVE it. You're a cute cuddly kitten!


Puts forward stupid opinion based on nothing > Gets called out > panics, feels all inadequate, can't answer > pussies out and claims I'm trolling.


Dude, You need to go to Egypt, and find the source of De Nile.




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:20 | 3602644 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Yup that drought in Texas sure was bad... and those record temperatures still stand to this day!

(FYI that was the 1930's...)

And the Texas record high temperature was August 12th 1936... before they started measuring the temperatures in parking lots in city cores.

Read it and learn... or don't...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:25 | 3602664 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yeah, might want to get back to me when you consider the average height of farms dropped 3 - 7' in the last 50 years and know the science about aquifers.

No, really. Look it up, check the data. You've lost so much top soil, even when ferrying it in by the lorry load it's not funny, not to mention all that oil based fertilizers you were using. Go Google it: there's a classic set of photographs from farms showing just how much the land dropped (due to a mixture of top soil loss and aquifer draining causing subsidence).


Seriously. Get back to me when you know the science behind it. You might want to look into weather patterns and so on, but why do I bother? You want the world to continue in your little dream land, which is understandable.


But it won't. This isn't Disney Land, I'm sorry to say. 'MURICA, land of DE NILE. You're fucked, and denying it isn't going to solve it. You can either deal with it, or pray to a God who hates you.




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:40 | 3602683 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

WTF are you on Bro'?

I'm talking heat and drought and you are talking aquifers?

I have forgoten more about weather and climate than you have ever learned. That's a fact. Now what about Trenbreths "missing heat"... the absence of the predicted heat signature above the tropical tropopause... the failure of the Southern Pole to warm... the failure of the predictive climate models to account for the ACTUAL temperatures recorded by even the warmistas' HadCRUT and NASA GISS (uAH and RSS are even farther misses) ...the bullshit treemometers used in the Yamal reconstructions (every good dendro knows it's precipitation that leads to thicker growth rings not heat...

Anyway you are too fucked to even talk to about this.

Enjoy your religion...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:45 | 3602691 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture


Dude, you're so far behind it's not even funny. Heat --> Ocean. Try reading a paper this side of 2000. The lack of heat in the atmosphere has long been proven to be taken in by Oceans.

Might want to look up what happens when all coral dies (OOPS - 90% bleaching and death already, that's 25% direct species death, not counting higher troposphere predators like sharks, octopuses etc) let alone when it hits the real currents. Or are you one of those "scientists" who don't "do" ecology? If so... fuck off, you're useless.


No religion, you're just pig shit out of date old man. Get with it, start reading something this side of 2000. Heat has been going into the oceans for a long time now, and there's multiple papers proving it. Or are you just another one of these "pretend scientists" they get out for Fox News?




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:48 | 3602695 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

How about May of this year?

Too bad about that 90% figure...

I say this again... drop the religion and read and learn...

Indeed the claim that there has been a 50 per cent decline in coral cover at the Great Barrier Reef appears to be largely an artifice of the survey method. In particular, coral reefs most severely affected by bleaching in 1998, and reefs disproportionally affected by crown-of-thorn starfish outbreaks, and also reefs with insufficient time to recover from cyclones in 2009 and 2011 were targeted for repeated sampling, while more representative reefs with healthy corals were ignored.


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:00 | 3602702 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Ye Gods, you're not a Scientist, you're a fucktard.


Took 20 seconds, you twat.


There's NO scientific disagreement that globally corals are being fucked. Hint, mother-fucker, that paper you posted only counts from 1986 onwards. It's the same as claiming that "Whales are the healthiest they've EVER BEEN" when counting from 1986 onwards. Hey, MUPPET, might want to look into the devastation that occurred before that point, if you want to do real science. Oh, wait... you're telling me that 90% of all Whales were killed off for oil in the 19th / early 20th Century? Gosh, I guess my paper IS FULL OF SHIT THEN.





/culled. Now fuck off.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:02 | 3602715 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Might want to look up what happens when all coral dies (OOPS - 90% bleaching and death already,


Kindly stop inhaling the nail polish remover and buy better drugs...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:11 | 3602724 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

You've no idea what 90% of the Great Barrier Reef means in terms of KM2 do you? You've no idea about the difference between bleaching and death, do you?



Here's a source you can respect:

High ocean temperatures this year are being blamed for the bleaching, which experts fear could be worse than a similar event in 1998 which saw an estimated 16 per cent of the world's reefs being destroyed...

Scientists in Thailand have reported reefs suffering 90% of their corals being bleached and up to 20% of the corals dead.[Telegraph]


That was 2010, you fucking muppet. You think it's gotten better since then? REALLY?



Seriously: you know nothing about this, and you're a cock for arguing about it. Please fuck off, you're an ignorant cunt and your ego is getting in the way of progress. Oh, and you're a twat.



Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:45 | 3602773 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

IPCC Head Pachauri Acknowledges Global Warming Standstill
  • Date: 21/02/13
  • Graham Lloyd, The Australian

The UN’s climate change chief, Rajendra Pachauri, has acknowledged a 17-year pause in global temperature rises, confirmed recently by Britain’s Met Office, but said it would need to last “30 to 40 years at least” to break the long-term global warming trend.

And no doubt the $30 billion in annual research grants to find more evidence for catastrophic anthropogenic global warming... throw some of that love my way and I too will prove this blue iceball (90% of the time during the last 2MM years) is melting at an alarming pace... 

This shit is for real Sparky...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 02:51 | 3602873 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Aurora Ex Machina don't bother arguing with this nonsense, it's like trying to convincine someone with a phantom limb they're missing something. You'll never get there no matter how absurd their argument. 

IMO if you want to argue people on AGW you gotta start at a point which you agree on and basically ignore the bits you disagree on. Otherwise there's no going. 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:01 | 3603060 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

AGW?   Al Gore's Warming

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:32 | 3602761 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

There are multiple causes of coral loss - ENSO, fertilizer runoff, raw sewage, predators - besides that caused by warmer water.

To claim otherwise is bullshit.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 03:31 | 3602894 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

My understanding is that ocean acidification is a major factor in coral destruction. The oceans absorb a lot of CO2 and this in turn lowers the pH.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:46 | 3603693 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

yadda yadda, carbonic acid.  already shown to be vastly overstated.  we'd need to get to 15,000ppm for this to be an issue.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:55 | 3602789 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

What's even funnier is when suburban hillbillies use well water to water their lawns for a few days on end to keep their lawns green. Hey it comes from the well on their property so it's their water.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:00 | 3602590 Lore
Lore's picture

Forgive the author for naiveté. Most among the masses have no idea about pathocracy.  They think GWOT is about stopping terrorists, and AGW is about ice caps and sea levels, and elections are about choosing new governments.  Deprogramming takes a little doubt, a little alert observation, a little initiative, and study time -- and even then, it's hard to find honest and readable books and articles that tie it all together without distortion.  The personalities of most devotees are so subsumed by dogma that they take any criticism as a personal attack, making open discussion difficult. And, harsh as it sounds, most of 'em aren't too bright.  They WANT to think that they're part of something that entitles them to power over others.  They WANT to justify their jobs, usually in local government.  And the people behind Agenda 21 are quick to reward that with a strong sense of community. (Note the preponderance of the royal colllectivist "we" in their propaganda: "We" must get people out of their cars; "We" must stop using fossil fuels.) 

It's utter BS, of course.  Big, amoral government is impossible without the propagation of Big Lies to serve as policy vehicles and smokescreens for darker things. 

That bit about people not needing space is also BS.  The Agenda 21 doctrine of "densification" translates as cramming people into shitty little shoebox apartments.  Visit any communist or even vaguely socialist country with neighborhoods like this, and you do not see a bright future.  You just see a lot of shitty little shoebox apartments.  HUMAN BEINGS NEED SPACE -- TO BREATHE, TO THINK, TO BE BY THEMSELVES, TO ENJOY PRIVACY.  The elites certainly appreciate space and privacy!

I'm convinced that you have to get burned personally by some kind of con or fraud, and understand that you've been burned, before you can begin to wake up. For this reason, it's reasonable that ZHers remain extremely bearish on America's future.  Buckminster Fuller was right: comfortable people will tolerate much abuse to avoid freedom.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:55 | 3603348 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"The thing that bothers me is...someone keeps moving my chair."

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:10 | 3602507 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

water vapor is a greenhouse gas too, let's get rid of all the water!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:19 | 3602518 malikai
malikai's picture

Are you talking about DiHydrogen Monoxide (DHM)?

That shit kills lotsa people.

I just don't understand why they don't protect us from that. I swear. It's like they don't even pay attention to the really important stuff.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:32 | 3602544 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 Dont put your gold in that either !!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:32 | 3602545 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:35 | 3602553 malikai
malikai's picture


Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:44 | 3602565 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yeah, please explain the Venus CO2 atmosphere to me.


You seem really certain of your science. I'll wait on you explaining how Venus' atmosphere works.



Awww... after three responses down thread, no response. SAD PANDA :(

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:46 | 3602585 malikai
malikai's picture

No, you're the one who seems pretty certain.

By the way, this is planet Earth. I know, it's a similar color to Venus, so it can be confusing sometimes.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:48 | 3602595 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Nah, that's a cop out. Please explain how the high CO2 atmosphere of Venus works, its surface temperature and so on. (Including Weather patterns if you're feeling frisky)


I am certain, I know the Science. You. Do. Not. That's why I'm giving you the chance to Google that shit and learn something.




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:07 | 3602634 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

What a douchehat, I logged in just to downvote him...CO2 and global temperatures have been on the rise since the last ice age.

Take your cap'n'trade and shove it up your ass!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:11 | 3602643 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Actually, they haven't. The rise was very small until about 200 years ago (and yes, there were peaks where civilizations such as the North American Indians started organizing or Rome or whatever, but the scale is a lot bigger).

Might want to actually quote some science there champ. You know, not to look like a total fucktard or anything.



And, btw: I've never said anything about "cap and trade" or "carbon credits". That's your own fucking paranoia, not me. WHOOPS.




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:28 | 3602668 Braverdave
Braverdave's picture

I have no idea 'how the high carbon dioxide atmosphere of Venus works" but I am willing to learn. I would guess it has something to do with proximity to the sun but then again I am not a Venus atmospheroligist ;)

I do know science fiction though and can highly recommend "The Mote in God's Eye" written by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle (and the sequel "Gripping Hand" too).

Circle of Life (and death).

We can evolve (or mutate ... but that's another bedtime story) or die :)


Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:48 | 3602697 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Nope. It's largely due to organic life moderating the atmosphere.

Venus has no life, and so the CO2 (and other far nastier gasses) form an enveloping cloud so dense that the surface is hotter than Mercury and has acid storms across it.


And yeah, the Russians landed a probe on it in the late '70's / early 80's. Might want to check it out.



/not culled.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:26 | 3602817 Braverdave
Braverdave's picture

Thanks perfesser :) I will check that out.

And also thanks for not culling me, bro ;)


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 03:37 | 3602897 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

If I recall correctly, the Venus probe didn't last too long on the surface (and wasn't expected to). The Venusian atmosphere is highly corrosive, containing clouds of sulfuric acid.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 07:09 | 3602996 malikai
malikai's picture

There's another planet without any known life, but has an atmosphere of mostly CO2.

The name of that planet is Mars.

What's the average surface temperature of Mars?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:15 | 3603611 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

are you fucking retarded???


its called atmospheric pressure.  look it up.  high values tend to make things hot.


or did you miss the part about checking the venusian temperature at a point up in the atmosphere where the pressure equals that of earth - and finding it to be damn near exactly the same?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:42 | 3603676 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hee, hee, hee....

You are truly a DK delight....

Oh, DK is Dunning-Kruger...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:48 | 3603701 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

I see you already subscribe to the idea that when you dont have data to support your assertion, you make up a model that says what you want to believe to be true and work backwards from there.


So stay away from actually addressing the point, ad hominem will do juuuust fine.


*rolleyes*  trolls...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:05 | 3603783 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Buddy, there is lot more to Venus than just the atmospheric pressure..

You make so many wrong assertions that one simply does not know where to start....

Besides this is about the role of anthropogenic CO2 in Earth's atmosphere and the known effect:

You should also read this History of Climate Science before making even more asinine statements:

After all, it is only from the American Institute of Physics....

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:19 | 3603848 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

"climate projections have model uncertainties that overwhelm the uncertainties in greenhouse gas measurements."


well at least they admit it in the first couple sentences.


what was that article around here the other day, the approximate present doesnt necessarily correlate to the approximate future?


there you go with argumentum ad vericundiam again

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:56 | 3604021 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yes, care to elaborate on those uncertainties within the context of the predictions? Didn't think so...

Any measurement has an uncertainty, that is what error analysis is all about...

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:11 | 3602510 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

You don't expectd these govt grant scientists to have to work for a living do you?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:01 | 3602543 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yep, you know nothing about how Science works.



Tue, 05/28/2013 - 07:12 | 3603000 malikai
malikai's picture

Luckily for us, we have you around to berate and insult everyone who does not agree with you.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:44 | 3603681 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You can count on me to identify fucktards pulling stuff out their ass here as well...

If you don't know what you are talking about, simply STFU or ask questions...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:51 | 3603714 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

No pal, we can count on you to be perfectly representative of Academia on High™ and act like the rest of us are utter and complete fools should we disagree with the little stones of perfect knowledge you have so graciously kicked down from the lofty heights of the chairs you sit in.


Regardless of how badly you abuse and bastardize statistics to aseert what you do.  We're not fucking stupid, dude.  We see a charade and call it for what it is.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:07 | 3603792 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So explain why AGW is wrong in correct scientific terms, the floor is all yours:

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:31 | 3602526 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

I really hope someone is paying you for this shit. I'd give you sources, but I suspect your employer wouldn't look at them. Suffice to say, 97% of global scientists really aren't paid enough to lie about this. Bottom line: You're either an idiot or a liar. Either way, I'd cull you.


On a serious note: No-one cares what retarded shills say now. The real planners are doing their thing, and the irony of this is that the sharp pointy teeth variety want you to be in denial. You won't see it coming then. Useful idiots.


They've already planned their escape, trust me.


P.S. If you junk me, you're signing your own death warrent. This amuses me. Your ignorance is condemning you to the cull.  



Straw poll: who replied to this crap, and +1 greened it? I'd love to know your average understanding of the world, I really would. You're about to become a dying breed. 1.0's... They even cry havok to their petty TV paid Gods for destruction.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:33 | 3602546 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

GS has some carbon credits to sell to gullible saps like you- then they'll use that $ to gas up the Gulfstream to fly to Gstaad for a weekend ski trip.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:38 | 3602558 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Nah, seriously.


I'm kinda out of your pay grade. If you want me to blast you with real Science, I can, but you've already admitted you can't understand it.


I'll make it simple:


100,000 years - Average Ice Age. Over 100,000 years 500 ppm CO2 > 300ppm.

200 years Industrial revolution etc - 275ppm > 400 ppm. CO2


200 years is not long enough for ecosystems to adapt, because evolution is slow (you do believe in evolution, right? Othewise you're just an organic robot and I can ignore you). This leads to bad things happeneing.


If you're a monkey and can't understand TIME SCALE, then that's cool, just admit it. Otherwise, fuck off, and let the adults deal with it.



Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:39 | 3602564 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture


Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:01 | 3602571 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

/Content free.




Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:27 | 3602669 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Obviously you know nothing...

Now back to your claims of record current drought and heat in TEXAS...

Please explain the current record high that was set and still stands in August of 1936 and reconcile it with your global warming thesis...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:31 | 3602743 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yeah... It's called W A T E R.

The USA's highest temperature, 134° on July 10, 1913 in Death Valley, Calif., is also the official highest temperature in the Western Hemisphere.



I'll give you a fucking hint, you idiot:

Texas 120 Aug. 12, 1936 Seymour 1,291


You tell me who grows crops at 1,291'.  That's a fucking mountain, you IDIOT. The record was set on TOP OF A FUCKING MOUNTAIN.

If you're seriously denying Climate Change (and I'm loving all these junks) then you're a muppet. Seriously. You just tried to make a temperature from DEATH VALLEY or THE TOP OF THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN IN TEXAS mean something. You're so fucking deluded I hope you never breed. Please tell me the last time ANYONE grew a crop in DEATH VALLEY or on the TOP OF A FUCKING MOUNTAIN IN TEXAS, I'm pretty sure it was ~45,000 years ago when it was a pleasant savanna.


Seriously. Are you this stupid? Please tell me you're being paid, it's desperately sad otherwise. Your intelligence is so pitiful I now feel sorry for calling you out.



Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:31 | 3602758 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If you were as smart as you think you are, you might try some tolerance and stay with the valid arguments rather than name-calling and being so abrasive.   At least we will be assured that you're no politician, and that's something to be thankful for.  Really, just try to be to the point and I might follow your comments.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:37 | 3602767 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

This thread isn't about rationality, that's the point.

It's a mirror to the unending stupidity of the climate deniers, but with the added bonus that everything I say is factual, can be backed up by science and I can cull these idiots without much effort.


This thread is not about me, it's about a reflection of them.


<That's the joke>

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:03 | 3602785 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Read it and weep... the news is out there and everybody knows. Heck even the chair of the IPCC admitted it.

It's a beautiful thing that graph.... a dazzling reflection of you :)

Sweet dreams and don't worry about sea level rise too much OK... or the polar bears or those cute baby seals they used to club to death.

Hey wait! Don't polar bears eat baby seals?


You must be sooo conflicted right now...


Tue, 05/28/2013 - 01:31 | 3602822 Braverdave
Braverdave's picture

Polar bears eat baby seals? I thought they were vegans but liked skittles on special occasions.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 02:26 | 3602857 trader1
trader1's picture

the fact that you're willing to zero in on any data supporting your view point without taking into account the big picture....




actually it should really scare us that current seawater desalination technology is grossly inefficient

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 02:54 | 3602856 Renfield
Renfield's picture

<<Straw poll: who replied to this crap, and +1 greened it? I'd love to know your average understanding of the world, I really would. You're about to become a dying breed. 1.0's....>>

Answering your straw poll about people's level of knowledge when they greened you. My level of knowledge = not much. I am not scientifically inclined, but I've seen what has happened to winter in my location in Canada over the last few years, and my mother-in-law sat through 52 degrees in Aus last Xmas, among other things. I recently saw this:

Drawing a trendline on this chart looks like temperatures rising to me. But I don't know enough about it for an informed discussion.

As soon as any article/comment on climate gets posted, there is a chorus of 'cap-n-trade', 'carbon credit' replies, arising from resistance to the (also) real problem of fascism. I feel that climate scientists have done a poor job of countering the corporate publicity that ties their cause TO the fascists. Al Gore, for example, as the climate-change poster-boy? Really? I know a few people in scientific fields who insist that "Scientists don't play politics". How unfortunate, that politics has now played them, to the point where climate scientists are associated with the likes of Al Gore. Meanwhile, as soon as we debt-serfs agree that there's a global warming problem, there will be a fascist carbon-credit 'solution' forced down our throats, which will change nothing except reducing our wealth & autonomy even further, and then we will STILL be hearing scientists who 'don't play politics' or have time to engage with an uninformed public, warning us that the problem is even worse.

Or this article. I also think the suburbs are huge waste of space & resources, dependent on 'cheap' oil. (I don't think oil was ever really cheap, but 'cheap' in fiat.) But what is the alternative here? Shoving everyone into those concrete gulags they call 'estates' in filthy urban debt-serf ghettos, where a healthy tree hasn't been seen in years and where you can't risk getting to know your neighbours? Because that's what our governments have planned for us.

So it's frustrating. Anyway, not knowledgeable at all, but since you asked. And I liked the article. Don't mind if you cull me since I freely admit I know very little, and am pretty daunted by the scope of these discussions.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 06:40 | 3602976 malikai
malikai's picture

I'm like you, except I do a bit of science of my own.

I don't deny climate change. I deny religious extremists such as the loudmouth above who is so keen on pointing out everyone who disagrees with his hyperbolic stance towards his view of science.

The problem with climate change science is that it has been completely compromised by politics and statism, combined with a very unhealthy dose of political money.

The fact is, it could all be true. We could be heading, head first into the abyss. But we'll never know, because the people who should have maintained independent views were compromised.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:47 | 3603695 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

As for real science you have demonstrated that your head is firmly up you ass...

The problem with the science of AGW is that it has been completely politicized by idologues and shills  in the pay of fossil fuel interests.... 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:54 | 3603726 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

And people like you sit there with blinders on, reciting the Gospel of Hansen ad nauseum


If you deny the tax revenue potential that governments are either willfully ignorant, or hopelessly brainwashed.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:57 | 3603741 malikai
malikai's picture

And of course, no-one in the scientific community researching AGW with their grant money has any incentive to preconclude or otherwise fit the data to the model.

Keep up the ad-hominem. What was it you called me last time? Shill was it?

I work for a living, what do you do?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:10 | 3603815 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Do you really think that researchers get money depending on the answer that is wanted by someone else?

There is a term for that, it is called paranoid conspiratorial ideation, and it is not how it works... 

Is making shit up all that you have? 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:19 | 3603850 malikai
malikai's picture

I see. You do not find any incentive whatsoever among politically charged science.

Cool. Is denial all you have?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:59 | 3604038 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sorry, denial is your game...

My position is consistent the implications of ~13,000 peer reviewed papers on climate science...

It must be one hell of conspiracy that you created... You strike me as the guy that would go to a dentist for an angiogram....

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:11 | 3604109 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

sorry flake, you're hiding behind the pal review process that was conspiritorial by any objective measure where climate "science" is concerned.


I mean really, going by AGWers arguments, your position is entirely invalid also, since you're not a climate scientist.


excpet of course that you agree with the established orthodoxy. 


its such a joke you'll mention oil companies profits but then wont look at how much tax money various governments and the UN (because I cant in any way shape or form refer to them as a government) stand to rake in if they could only convince everyone that moar co2 causes the climate systems to go parabolic.


something that is so far buried in the noise, they still cant even agree on a signal.  yet there's enough confidence to declare "human effects have largely overtaken the solar effects as main drivers of the climate," to verbatim quote Hansen.


like I said before, get that bullshit outta here.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:34 | 3604237 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

So basically as I suspected,  you have nothing scientific to argue with against AGW...  

Take your bullshit ideological claptrap to WUWT, you will fit in well there... 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:20 | 3603624 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

adding co2 to the system does not magically make all of the equations go parabolic.


unless your shitty half assed model tells it to do so, of course - but in that case, you've abandoned reality in favor of a partial description that you THINK has some predictive capacity where reality is concerned.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:52 | 3605024 trader1
trader1's picture

one word - desertification

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:40 | 3602568 malikai
malikai's picture

Please call the adults in and leave as soon as they get here.

Thank you.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:41 | 3602572 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Yeah, I called them in for you.



Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:02 | 3602713 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

In case you were wondering how he knows so much, This is the product of the "self-esteem movement" in education in the 90's. 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:30 | 3602755 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

No dear.


It's called reality.



Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:41 | 3602570 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

There has only been official accurate weather keeping for the last 140 years- I'm not talking about that drilling holes in the ground guesstimating shit they do.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 22:43 | 3602574 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Science: You don't know how it works. Dinosaur fossils / Carbon Dating / Ice Core dating.


Let me guess... Adam lived with dinosaurs, but didn't invite them onto the Ark, right?




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