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US Mint Resumes Selling One-Tenth Ounce Gold Coins... At A 40% Premium To Spot

Tyler Durden's picture




 

When news broke a month ago that the US Mint had suspended selling one-tenth ounce gold coins, perhaps the most surprising news was that there were thousands of consumers willing to pay the exorbitant retail premium demanded by the US mint, with the resulting order deluge promptly sapping the mint's stretched inventories. Well: we have good news - as of moments ago the US mint has once again restocked on the popular denomination (with a 20,000 production limit), and without a limit per household. The even better news: the coin will set you back just $195. This means a "tiny" 40% premium to spot.

Is there indeed a massive disconnect between spot and physical as the Mint is telegraphing? Nah: must be all those shipping and wrapping costs for the fancy box the coin is put in. Oh wait, the gift box is another $5.95 per order. And no, it isn't the shipping and handling either: that is another $4.95. In other words: the full delivery of one coin to your front door step would cost $200 per one tenth of an ounce. Oh well: we are fresh out of ideas then.

 

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Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:48 | 3603702 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Get your piece of Ft Knox history! 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:59 | 3603725 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

HURRY....HURRY....

Get 'em while they're hot!

(if you're that much of a believer, why not buy a couple of good miners at a 40% DISCOUNT)

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:59 | 3603752 malikai
malikai's picture

There you have it, $1900/oz, confirmed by the federal government.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:02 | 3603765 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Wow!  Even the government is acknowledging that paper is crap and the great disconnect is happening already.  Who'da thunk it?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:10 | 3603814 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DCFusor writes:  "Who'da thunk it?"

Only those of us who bought..., even the fractionals!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:13 | 3603826 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Vindication DoChen?  I recall you saying you liked the fractionals and I was expressing skepticism over the premiums.  

I considered scooping up some 1/10 ouncers when sales were suspended, but failed to do so.  Doh!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:17 | 3603840 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

You get the premiums BACK if you sell, to your LCS for example.  But, note that they are selling proofs!  Which always cost more.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:22 | 3603863 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

CNI (California Numismatic) is selling a tube of 20 1/10 oz Austrian Philharmonics for $3260. Still a hefty premium, but at least you're not feeding the Federal government.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:46 | 3603958 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Well, with the Phillies, you are simply feeding another corrupt government.

Although you can at least look at a different design, pay less premium and feel as if you are paying homage to Austrian Economics with them.

But you can also skip the coin premiums and buy 1 oz. bars for significantly less, and get all the pretty designes you want.

BTW - Did anybody notice that spot prices spiked as soon as floor trading opened?

Check it out live: http://www.pmbull.com/gold-price/

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:06 | 3604085 A is A
A is A's picture

This is for the proof coins not the uncirculated. They always sell the proof coins for insane premiums. Unfortunately they STILL aren't selling the regular uncirculated 1/10th ounce coins. WTF?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:36 | 3604252 derryb
derryb's picture

correct. Nothing has changed. Proof prices are determined by US Mint pricing matrix that is based on weekly spot average.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:06 | 3604355 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Hey Fusor ~ to someone like you... paying a 40% 'markup' to the government on a gold coin should be a bargain compared to your Government Motors Volt...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:36 | 3604645 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

At least someone gets it -   This is  THE PROOF VERSION

For God's sake - the article makes it sound like this is the bullion coin.......Proofs are always grossly overpriced.

Nonetheless, the Mint is charging one hell of a premium on gold these days - you'd never know that the 'official price' of the metal is under $1400.   

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:15 | 3603833 greyghost
greyghost's picture

this article shows 20,000 coin mintage and is for the "proof" coins. "proof" coins have always had a premuim. what is the mark up on the non proof coins?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:08 | 3604089 akak
akak's picture

The only proofs that I give a damn about are 80 and 100.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:36 | 3604253 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Yes, the same "proof" coins that were exhausted a month ago and when the Mint stopped selling them due to record demand.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:19 | 3604404 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Posters are calling you a liar Tyler. (see below)

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:39 | 3604468 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

oo if you calc inflation as  dolars vs gold, ....

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:38 | 3604467 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

To my knowledge, there is no law requiring the mint to produce any amount of proof coins. If we wish our govco agencies to operate at something close to profitable, it only makes sense to limit the number of numismatic coins released so as to keep values for them high. 

 Record demand? One can only truley measure 'record demand' if one allows the price discovery mechanism to function freely, not by setting a price and selling out. For all you and I know, there were customers willing to pay even higher premiums for these coins. In fact, go on over to the internet bidding site and see what they are selling for in a relatively free market atmosphere ($200+ at the moment). 'Record demand' would be measured in the price the consumer was willing to pay for a coin which was released in 'limited supply'. 

 This site has gone down fast since it became a member of the ABC media family.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:24 | 3604606 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Well, I find the US Mint extremely shady with their sales reporting in general (and for good reason), especially with ASE's. Look at this months totals. 2.6M? That's a joke, and everyone here knows it. Probably double that number.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:29 | 3604883 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Well, it is difficult to produce bullion coins when your COMEX positions are settled in fiat and not bullion. :)  I take any govco reports with a pound of salt, and I don't follow the Mint's sales reports as a rule. But perhaps the reported sales are simply a reflection of a limited capacity to produce bullion coins for whatever reason there may be, wether limited capacity or limited raw materials or limited desire to produce.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:41 | 3604671 Diablo
Diablo's picture

Nope. the bullion coins were suspended, not the proof versions. 

Heres your story, just to refresh your memory: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-23/us-mint-halts-sales-runs-out-inventory-one-tenth-ounce-gold-coins-due-strong-demand

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:14 | 3603832 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

$1950/oz

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:20 | 3603861 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

Coming soon: $950/oz. gold

S&H, on the other hand, is $1,100 per ounce.

But it's still a great deal!!!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:11 | 3604111 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

as the tylers like to say...

presented with out comment...

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:23 | 3604169 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Hmmm.... $195.00 + $4.95 s&h = $199.95 X 10 = $1,999.50 per troy ounce...  hell, let's just say $2,000.00 per troy ounce... sounds about right to me.  :D

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:42 | 3604274 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Now up to $1930!  Woo Hoo!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:09 | 3603801 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

But wait,order two today and get a free Spiderman towel (s&h extra).

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:13 | 3603824 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

... and they have a very sharp Ginsu edge for slicing and dicing.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:44 | 3603946 monoloco
monoloco's picture

The agency that's supposed to be in charge of our currency has been reduced to a trinket vendor.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 04:22 | 3606556 OZZIDOWNUNDER
OZZIDOWNUNDER's picture

Yes Indeed !  Hurry hurry Hurry !!!

Only those with SFB would BUY  ANYTHING from the USA Mint -let alone pay that sort of Premium.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:07 | 3603794 SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

As the West continues to Print Money and Fabricate Derivatives, the EAST exchanges worthless FIAT money for Gold.  Looks like the Russian Central Bank is adding more gold to its stockpile:

Russia, Kazakhstan expand gold purchases as prices tumble

http://srsroccoreport.com/russia-kazakhstan-expand-gold-purchases-as-pri...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:02 | 3604055 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

The Feds are selling "money" for 40% above the cost of money....what a deal!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:07 | 3604542 Economicreason
Economicreason's picture

Free 1oz Silver Coin.

I dont mean to spam, but would appreciate your opinions for my survey. The survey will take less than 5 minutes to complete. In return, your name will be entered into a draw to win a 1oz silver coin from Sprott Money.
http://www.economicreason.com/goldismoney/enter-to-win-a-1oz-silver-coin/

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:49 | 3603703 GOLD AND SILVER...
GOLD AND SILVER NATZI's picture

Reminds me of what they're doing with ammo.  Make it more rare and more expensive.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:57 | 3603742 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

No, no. Gold is 'down', didn't you hear?

No one wants it anymore.  That's how-come it's so expensive.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:59 | 3603750 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Reminds me of what they're doing with ammo. Make it more rare and more expensive.

Yep, and the DOD is back up to their past tricks of making the military shred the once fired cases(sell as scrap to China),rather than sell to bulk reloaders (and losing money in the process).This adminstration is dead set on anything to take down the 2nd, and to bankrupt this country.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:19 | 3603852 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Once china slips in the Ginsu knife they'll not have time to reconsider...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:49 | 3603708 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

How soon before the premium is 400% ?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:54 | 3603729 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Fed Centennial special edition 1/20th oz ?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:38 | 3604261 MissCellany
MissCellany's picture

Shoot, we're WAY past 400% already. The U.S. "official" valuation of an ounce of gold is $42.22. So a tenth of an ounce is officially valued at $4.22 (that's why the 1/10 coins say "5 Dollars," I guess).

So...a 1/10 gold coin with $4.22 "worth" of gold in it, selling for $195, is already at a premium of...wait for it...

4,620%!!!

Yep, your beloved gummint...makin' a killing sellin' these buggers! There oughta be a law...oh, wait...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:50 | 3603709 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The big clue is the limited Production of only 2000 oz. TOTAL

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:55 | 3603735 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Why is it the US buyers pay the highest premiums over spot (at least what I have seen).2000 only, well that explains it, the question is why?,why just 2000.(is this for plain old tenth ounce, or limited run?).Pee Pee on them buy Mapes,or any other soverign small denomination coin.(higher prems than one ounce coins but at least not off the charts.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:05 | 3603781 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Because they don't want to sell any at all. If they have to sell some, it is going be a very small amount at a very high price.

Look ma! The new plan to stop gold is really high prices!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:44 | 3603950 mt paul
mt paul's picture

the mint must have found

5 good delivery bars

that weren't tungsten 

in the back room ...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:51 | 3603716 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Premiums on small coins have always been high.  What was the premium before they ran out?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:53 | 3603727 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

great question.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:06 | 3603755 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Current eBay/24hgold.com gold premium/price widget shows eBay offers for 1/10 oz AGEs at $178.80 or about a 28% premium to spot.

The widget can be found at 24hgold.com at the bottom of their home page.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:06 | 3603789 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"Demand for one-tenth ounce gold coins is up 118% from a year earlier". (April 24, 2013)

Not that supply and demand have anything to do with gold or silver prices. :/

http://silverdoctors.com/us-mint-suspends-sales-of-small-gold-coins-premiums-rising/

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:20 | 3603855 machineh
machineh's picture

More odd-lotters than evar, pouring into the big tent.

This way to the egress!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:02 | 3603762 seek
seek's picture

When I bought 1/10th oz eagles in 2010, the premium was 11% over spot. 1 oz premium bought the same day was 3.6%.

40% is insane.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:06 | 3603786 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I have bought a few 1/10 AGEs from about 2011 - recent.  They cost me about 20% premium over spot.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:02 | 3603763 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Premiums on proofs are even higher. Yo Tyler, whaddup widdat?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:35 | 3603805 Swarmee
Swarmee's picture

I paid closer to 22% just before they halted sales recently. While I don't have hard numbers to track it, I can confidently say that 40% is very high for just BU coins without a grading for these pieces in my experience. Just another anonymous data point so take it for what it's worth, but between that premium and the 20k limited run it begins to raise some serious questions about the disconnect from spot.

Edit: I see after my post that these are prices for proof coins. My reference point is for BU, non-proofs. Proofs always command a higher premium because they require multiple strikes and wear out dies faster, also smaller features for these tiny coins wear out faster on than on large dies as well. 40% still seems high but I don't know what the proof premium was prior to now. If BU coins are still not even available for sale then that implies an infinite premium at the moment, no?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:45 | 3603955 mt paul
mt paul's picture

20 %

for the last 5 yrs..

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:51 | 3603717 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

And watch them sell out anyway.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:02 | 3603764 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Even though they probably did this praying no one would buy anymore.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:03 | 3603769 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

40% is a very high premium, but, yes, I think you are right Bay.  tulving.com is selling 1/4 oz AGEs for about 8.25% over spot, problem is you have to buy 80 coins (20 oz).

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:07 | 3603793 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 tulving.com is selling 1/4 oz AGEs for about 8.25% over spot, problem is you have to buy 80 coins (20 oz).

And that is just part of the cost of dealing with that screwed up old man.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:46 | 3604311 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

That's how he is able to charge less. He isn't screwed up, just running a very large coin outfit and doesn't want to deal with small orders. 

And I never did hear why his "in stock' silver items were taking two weeks to ship out. He always shipped within 48 hrs before the smashdown.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:24 | 3603868 Iam Rich
Iam Rich's picture

Bullion direct nucleo exchange has the 1/10 AE at ~160

https://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo/lp/American_Eagle_Gold_Coin_%280.10...

40% is retarded.

Makes it seem like they don't actually want you to buy them.

However, like Bay says, they'll be gone anyway.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:51 | 3603719 Triple A
Triple A's picture

you would have to be a dummy to pay a 40% premium right now.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:52 | 3603723 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

LOL! Then they come take it back because it has the word "liberty" printed on it, so it is technically the property of the government to begin with.

 

Stoopid sheep..

 

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:04 | 3603772 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

"Liberty" ain't free bitchez.....Pay up 40% if you want it. 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:15 | 3604562 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Yeah, I realized buying from the Mint was stupid after I did it. Gives them a list for confiscation time. Shame about that boating accident...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:55 | 3603736 russwinter
russwinter's picture

It appears that in June the Comex is rolling out a new 1000 oz physically deliverable silver contract for smaller investors. First stand on this one would be September. What happens if a bunch of small investors use this to buy physical silver well below dealer costs?

See fourth story: http://www.scoop.it/t/precious-metals-investing

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:08 | 3603798 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Allegedly the current 5000 oz contract is also deliverable....Allegedly.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:12 | 3603820 DosZap
DosZap's picture

It appears that in June the Comex is rolling out a new 1000 oz physically deliverable silver contract for smaller investors. First stand on this one would be September. What happens if a bunch of small investors use this to buy physical silver well below dealer costs?.

 

 

Does Crimex deliver in 1000oz bars on their settlement of these cotracts?, if so not many small investors are going to go that route, I wouldn't.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:05 | 3604073 Conax
Conax's picture

That's why they can offer it up.  The cost of manufacture for a thousand rounds, or a hundred 10 oz bars would make it a total losing proposition for the sell side.  (At the 'spot')

I like the idea, but an ugly, rough thousand oz bar isn't very liquid at a gun show or flea market.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:00 | 3603739 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Well, since Sebelius' effort to extort insurers to help fund ObamaCare has been uncovered and deemed unseemly by those darned Constitution lubbin' types, Gub Boyz gotta get that funding some other way

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:05 | 3603779 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Well, since Sebelius' effort to extort insurers to help fund ObamaCare has been uncovered, Gub Boyz gotta get that funding some other way

 

Yep and the THOUGHT that having younger folks pay into the Unaffordable Act exchanges is crashing, if their prems rise even 10%, they are dropping all insurance and paying the penalty.IF they get sick they then buy insurance(no one can turn them down),and they are home free.So another rip in the hull of Unaffordable Care.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:09 | 3603740 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

dealers were selling at 18% + over spot*, art. said that 2 weeks ago about 1/10 oz AEG...but 40% is not right because we are talking PROOF COINS NOT B.U!!!

http://zysites.com/silververitas/

 

 

 

*wholesale price

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 11:59 | 3603751 walküre
walküre's picture

Demand for gold in Germany has doubled since the price has come down. And yet some are predicting further price declines over the next 5 years.

I have never witnessed such a massive propaganda effort to try and distort the price and value of this unique currency and store of wealth.

Future historians will shake their heads in disbelief and examine this time and its people with the same discernment and discrimination that is commonly applied today with regards to ancient civilisations and cultures.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:14 | 3603828 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

walkure

It is probably not a propaganda effort but rather a sickness at the heart of the paper gold market. Paper gold is dying but there is so much of it that it does not know it is dead yet. When the first guy leaves the COMEX complaining that 'they won't deliver'...well then we shall see.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:53 | 3604002 walküre
walküre's picture

It just occured to me that the paper metals market will have to be absorbed by the taxpayers just like the paper toxic mortgage market.

Let's entertain this further. Paper metals market goes kaboom.

Can CME have an orderly unwind in the same manner as the HKMEX just had? In other words, can they suppress the paper market long enough to settle the contracts at the suppressed paper price?

If not and prices run away, CME will need to get a bailout and Fed will need to print an awful lot of Dollars to cover.

At that moment, the era of the United States of Weimerica will be ushered in.

United States of Weimerica (tm walküre-ZH)

Spread the word.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:10 | 3604101 akak
akak's picture

+1 for "Weimerica".

I'll take Weimerica any day over Cramerica.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:23 | 3604415 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The blobbing up of US 'weimerican' citizenism is unstoppable.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:26 | 3604614 akak
akak's picture

Welcome to the 'weimerican' world. 

It's a busy place, you'll see.

Don't forget your wheelbarrow.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:54 | 3605043 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Funny as blattering illeterate hondurian pufferfish, but cogenter.

Made me laugh strongy.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:37 | 3603923 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

If the future is anything like the present, future historians will still be tossing the establishment's salad. Bernanke and Obama will go down as underappreciated heroes, regardless of the damage they do.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:22 | 3604594 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I read that last sentence as "Bernanke and Obama will go down as underappreciated herpes.. Wishful thinking on my part.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:13 | 3604116 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

You should have tried the good old Soviet Union.

These guys are still amateurs...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:01 | 3603756 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    You gotta be kidding me! Are they going to hire the "Sham Wow" guy to sell them on late night infomercials?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:11 | 3604106 akak
akak's picture

LOL, I actually met that guy once, and somewhat surprisingly (or not), he talks pretty much that same way in real life, too.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:17 | 3604397 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    That's funny akak. Did you give him a bottle of "blue pills"? That guy could talk me to death inside of 30 seconds.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:01 | 3603760 IMACOINNUT
IMACOINNUT's picture

Proof gold from the mint has had this premium for quite a while(not sure how long)a couple years I suspect. Hell, the proof silver eagle has a 100% + premium ( silver bullion - 22.60 mint coin -- 57.95). Gold and platinum had a price guideline on the site.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:04 | 3603774 Dutch Knight
Dutch Knight's picture

1/4 has a face value of 10 dollars and a 4/4 is 50 dollars. so if you change 1 once in quaters what do you get? 4 or 5 coins?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:14 | 3603827 IMACOINNUT
IMACOINNUT's picture

I'm assuming your changing one oz. into 1/4 oz coins. From a coin dealer probably 4 coins with additional upfront cost for the premium, you have an increasing premium on proof gold as it descends in size, 1oz, 1/2oz, 1/4oz, and 1/10oz. from the mint.  

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:08 | 3603799 Blano
Blano's picture

Not a gold buyer (yet, just silver).  Why would anyone pay that premium?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:19 | 3604402 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

For the same reason anyone purchases numismatic coins. In hopes that a greater fool shall soon come along.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:38 | 3604465 walküre
walküre's picture

Not true. You pay a premium if you know its worth it and you really want it. Toilet paper in exchange for gold.....hmmmm. I'll take gold and give you toilet paper +200% premium.

Do you see where this is going?

I'm a farmer and produce crops and livestock. My customers pay in cash. How long do you think before that cash gets converted?

What the fuck does it matter how much of a premium and what the ficticious paper value is? Paper is worthless when the shit hits the fan. Good customers will pay with coins already because they know I'm stacking. They get a discount which is the equivalent to an additional premium if you think about it. I don't care. My crops grow, my livestock breeds and produces and my input cost is what it is.

If I'm not mistaken, that is how the system was supposed to work. Reinvest profits in either expansion of stock and land or convert to PMs. That's what I own, that's what I can touch and no government, bank or other useless parasitic paper pushing imbecile ninkampoop will have it.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:38 | 3604933 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

One would need to consider that we are discussing the additional premium paid for proof coins, above that of bullion coins. I may have misinterpreted his question to be 'why would one pay that premium (when the premium for bullion coins is so much lower)?' When speaking of proof coins, the additional premium is paid for the added value of rarity, not for the gold content, as the gold content of proof coins is no different from that of bullion coins. 

 If you feel that having an extra shiney piece of gold is worth more than an ordinary piece of gold, then true, you may feel it is 'worth more'. But it only your subjective feeling, and you rely on someone else sharing that belief, and being willing to pay that extra premium. If you see gold as a future currency, then the shin of the coin makes no difference in it's value.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:09 | 3603806 e-recep
e-recep's picture

must not let gold pass $1400, must not let gold pass $1400, must not let gold pass $1400.....

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:09 | 3603809 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Do any of you realize how much a velvet, satin-lined presentation case costs ?????

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:06 | 3604081 ironsky
ironsky's picture

Are they inscrutable?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 18:20 | 3605406 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

Laugh all you want, I have US Mint gold proofs in hardwood, brass hinged display boxes that now are worth far, far more than I paid. Ditto for proof silver eagles.

The coin market has always segmented buyers into numismatic, collector and bullion buyers. Do you want to give your high school grad a scuzzy old worn silver dollar or a nice shiny silver Eagle in a velvet case?

PhD grads get Athenian silver tetradrachmas, 4000 year old silver beauties. Except Paul Krugman, he gets a box of rocks!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:10 | 3603810 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

APMEX has 1 gram bars for 20% premium...why buy a 1/10 for 40%?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:20 | 3603854 DosZap
DosZap's picture

If your smart you do not buy Gold bars.I do not care who makes them,they will always when selling to individuals,need to be assayed(if the buyer is smart),and that brings the cost prems WAY up.Stick w/ soverign coins.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:12 | 3603819 Silver_K-9
Silver_K-9's picture

Apmex has 1/10 Kangaroo's, Phils and Maples for $19.99 over spot. ($159)...

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:13 | 3603822 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

Um, this is the proof version which was never sold out. Proofs are always overpriced compared to bullion. The price of this coin actually went down when gold dropped.

The bullion version is what sold out and it goes for about 9% over spot to the wholesalers, for these tiny ones. The 1 oz. is something like 3% over.

If you don't know the difference between the Mint's bullion program and the proof program, you should not be investing in metals.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:19 | 3603851 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Thanks for setting us straight. We all feel dumb now.  

Come on Tyler's, we know you can do better!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:20 | 3603860 Blano
Blano's picture

Thank you.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:30 | 3604212 Diablo
Diablo's picture

EXACTLY.

what kind of bullshit story is this TD? you know very well that these are proof versions and they always have a high premium to them.

the price is even predetermined: http://catalog.usmint.gov/wcsstore/ConsumerDirect/images/catalog/en_US/PMPricingGrid.pdf

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:16 | 3604293 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Why would they stop selling the proofs with record demand then?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 19:49 | 3605642 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

They never stopped selling the proofs. They stopped selling the bullion version because they ran out. They may have made more by now as most dealers seem to have them. Check http://comparegoldprices.com/ where you can see one dealer has them for less than 6% over spot. Guess the Mint doesn't charge much to distributors of bullion.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:15 | 3603835 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

This only means that when the premium comes down to %30 in a month, Bloomberg will publish "US MINT GOLD PREMIUMS COLLAPSE 25%, FASTEST RATE SINCE 1980"

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:19 | 3603841 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

The stench of corruption hangs over every aspect of .gov activity; is there nothing it will not inundate?

I would suggest that circa 2013 FedGov can be assessed as differing little from a metastisizing cancer.  That is my model, anyways.

The remaining healthy cells, recognizing early enough what is going on, still have options.

As a cell, you stay mobile by avoiding debt and, I am afraid, by breaking rules.  Study shadow economies, black markets, subterfuge, obfuscation, methods of avoidance of the cancerous center in all aspects. 

Most of your friends and family are already sucked down; it does not take much questioning at the dinner table to ascertain that.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:39 | 3604265 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

hongcha

why?

In a potentially hyperinflationary environment would you advise 'avoid debt'?

The correct strategy is to borrow to the limit of what you can service and buy gold (or other real assets). Avoiding debt is good advice if you are talking to the sheeple who have no financial sophistication.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:19 | 3603847 cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

1/10 ounce x $195 then physical IS  $2000 / ounce!!  The bullion banks should all match that price tomorrow, then see what the paper traders have to say about their $1350 spot.. fuck them.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:24 | 3603869 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

In totally unrelated news, tungsten detectors have been used in a terrorist attack and are henceforth illegal.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:26 | 3603875 Quinvarius
Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:28 | 3603884 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

It is very simple.

The reason they are so expensive is because they are.........snicker........limited edition

ROFL!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:31 | 3603890 monad
monad's picture

apmex is pitching $20 for 1/10.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:33 | 3603898 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I've had this outfit convert jewelry scrap into 1/10 oz gold coins. I like the design, and though they aren't from a national mint, they're clearly gold, so should have some utility for breakdown commerce. I've sold some on Ebay at decent prices. The great thing is they charge $3/coin to mint them, and they'll convert any .999 as well as refined scrap. You can't beat a 2.5% premium for fractional gold: http://www.prospectorsgoldandgems.com/buy-gold.html

If you want to purchase them outright, the price is quite a bit higher, $160/coin.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:31 | 3603899 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

Theses guys think their the appl of the gold market.

When your roaming the streets lookin' for food whos going to trade on premium?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:46 | 3604290 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

I would guess that if you are ever actually "roaming the streets lookin' for food", the premium wil be the last thing on your mind.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:36 | 3603918 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

"Your Goverment"

Ripping you off every chance they get.

When are the people going to remember who are the public servants...?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:36 | 3603920 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

That makes physical gold $1,960/oz.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:37 | 3603924 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

I seriously wonder about fractional coins like this.

If every other aspect of the gold market is scammed, who is to say that they are not trimming the actual amount of gold in these fractionals?

Their corruption knows no bounds.

Once everything starts to implode and the system becomes jammed (ala Alinsky), I doubt there would be any chance of recourse if it is discovered these coins are, say, a few grams short.

At least with 1 oz coins and bars it is significantly easier to tell exactly what you have stacked.

Strange times.

 

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:50 | 3604497 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

who is to say that they are not trimming the actual amount of gold in these fractionals

 

For Christ's sake, have you never heard of a scale? Do you know what is meant by 1/10 ounce?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 17:45 | 3605286 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

#1 WEIGH it

#2 displace in water, measure the water volume

#3 use a rare-earth magnetic slide to see if it moves too slowly, too quickly or sticks to the magnet

you should be paranoid & it's incredibly hard to beat all these tests.

If you are still in doubt, acid-test, but you know what that will do to the coin.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:47 | 3603936 Frank N. Beans
Frank N. Beans's picture

this is what I paid for a 1/10 oz proof eagle from a bullion shop

of course that was when gold was around, what, $1600/oz

Edit: by the way, this was just $10 more than what the shop was asking for a non-proof version, which I thought was quite fair, but there was no pretty box or certificate with it.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:53 | 3604000 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Wow...

The Hedge is going Bloomberg on us....

Sensationalism sells.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 12:56 | 3604025 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Of course it costs more, it's MADE IN AMERICA.

Mint "proof" coins are not worth the premium attached.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:17 | 3604137 Magnum
Magnum's picture

Certainly not worth the premium but some collectors have to buy one each issue for their sets to be complete. Proof are not investment coins.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:04 | 3604070 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

"Proof Coins" are for the "patriots".

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:14 | 3604119 akak
akak's picture

The foreign evildoers hate us for our mirror finishes.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:42 | 3604677 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Should you come to need to purchase bread, cheese, weed or ammo with gold, the dude isn't going to want to hear any of this "proof" shit.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:16 | 3604128 Magnum
Magnum's picture

That is a proof coin that collectors buy. Don't blame the mint for charging what the market will pay. The Australian mint charges even higher premiums on collectibles.

The actual situation is that 1/10th oz eagles are readily available at 10% premium, and sometimes it gets up to 12%. Just buy here all you want.

http://tulving.com/goldbull.html

ZH always seems to miss the mark on issues with coin buying, but maybe it's always seeking sensational hype.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:16 | 3604135 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Kinda funny complaining about the "transaction costs" of trading fiat for gold.

 

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:18 | 3604147 Watson
Watson's picture

Offering, of course, is not the same as anyone buying.
Also, it _is_ worth something to be dealing with the US mint.

However (tin hat on):
If retail buys this stuff in size, at a 40% mark-up, you have the end of the gold bull market confirmed in spades...

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 08:22 | 3606863 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Every major bubble always ends with retail buying frenzy driving prices up in parabollic fashion, then a sudden drop when they run out of "greater fools", followed by a panic. You can't have a bubble without that. It is basic human nature.

And if you look at the chart, you don't see anything ressembling that.

Now if you look around in the street, it's still full of "we buy gold" pawn shops. The sheeple are still selling, or those shops would be closed by now.

You must be really stupid if gold looks like a bubble to you.

 

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:28 | 3604192 They Tried to S...
They Tried to Steal My Gold's picture

I'm waiting for the GOld Nickel bag @ $2,500

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 13:57 | 3604328 FreeBull
FreeBull's picture

Website with Mintage Figures for 1/10th oz. American Silver Eagles, 1/10th oz. Canadian Maple Leaf, 1/10 oz. Austrian Philharmonic, 1/10th oz. Chinese Panda, Australian Lunar & Kangaroo ... www.free-bullion-investment-guide.com

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:24 | 3604420 wstrub
wstrub's picture

http://www.mint.ca/store/buy/silver_coins-cat120006

How about $100.00 for an ounce of silver at THE ROYAL CANADIAN MINT????????

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:39 | 3604470 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

here's the sha-bang for 1/10 gold.

 

http://comparegoldprices.com/

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 17:38 | 3605251 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

not listed there is 0.1 oz gold maple for 170 (cdn) that is at silvergoldbull -  however if you're looking for 0.1 oz Eagles they aren't even in the inventory list there.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:49 | 3604493 kragsquest
kragsquest's picture

I'm hoping Honey Comb cereal will be offering gold flake tokens in every box, probably no one here remembers that when they actually offered a sliver of gold in every box....

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 14:54 | 3604506 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

No, but I remember the HoneyComb Kid, he's a hero!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 18:03 | 3605338 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

When I was a kid, some cereal company sold "title" to one square inch of the Moon. I have aluminum tokens from cereal boxes celebrating Olympic sports. Those cereal companies know how to use popular topics and causes for promotion. Their tokens, etc are worth less than fiat as they are not serious collector's items and are most notable as artifacts of marketing programs. Now old Coca Cola bottles, there's a collectable for you hard asset fans. Like real estate, they ain't making any more of 'em.

Collectors stuff and the tone used to promote it is more of a plus-minus indictator for the public's penchant for speculation. Beanie Babies selling for far more than the rag doll's original $4.95 is a classic mania, like tulipimania in Olde Hollande of yore.

Don't take any wooden nickels, a phrase now passed from common parlance was once a humorous warning to avoid marketing promotional fiat. "Love tokens", stamped metal disk tokens issued by whorehouses, good for one night's stay or one ride, etc. were "fiat with a bang". Now when the FED issues a token, we all get screwed. That's some Love Token!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:26 | 3604620 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

Proof vs. Uncirculated vs Spot + Volume Discount + Availability (not the same as supply) + Supply + Demand + Source of Purchase + source of production + type of product + various risk factors

(All these things make a difference in the premium paid)

 

4 Coin Proof Set includes a 1/10 ounce coin

Mint: 28% over spot

Apmex: 26% over spot

ebay: no available

1/10 Proof Coin alone

Mint: 41% over spot

Dealers: not available

ebay: not available 

 

But moar is not always better

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungsten-filled-10-oz-gold-bar-found-middle-manhattans-jewelry-district

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 15:41 | 3604654 tchild2
tchild2's picture

The Mint selling 1/10 oz. gold at a 40% premium for proof coins (or 26% for business strikes) does not mean that physical prices have diverged from physical prices, it means that people who buy this type of gold are ill-informed about how to buy gold.  The mint has always sold to collectors at a premium because collectors will pay the premiums.  There is a shortage of these specific, cute little gold pieces, so, there is now a hefty premium.  

If people want to exchange their "worthless fiat" for 1/10 gold, only to exchange it back into less units of "worthless fiat" down the road...knock yourself out!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:16 | 3604810 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 the us mint............................

 

 now the Franklin Mint

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:56 | 3605058 Odin
Odin's picture

Annnnd supply/demand wins again... Surprise surprise... Keep manipulating you morons... Even with a 40% premium I'm still buying at discount bitchez... Got phyz?

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