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First Shipment Of Russian S-300 Rockets Arrives In Syria
Two days ago we reported that the most recent escalation in the Syrian proxy war involved a bitter exchange between Russia and Israel, where the latter warned the former that it would proceed with destroying any arms shipments from Russia into Syria, specifically referencing the S-300 missiles that has been known to be en route to Damascus for several weeks now. The Israel defense minister warned that: "The shipments haven't set out yet and I hope they won't. If they do arrive in Syria, God forbid, we'll know what to do." Well, according to Lebanese newspaper al-Akhbar not only has the shipment been sent out, but it has already arrived. Check to Israel and coming through on its warning to begin an offensive action not only against Syria, but more importantly, implicitly against Russia.
More:
"Syria has received the first shipment of Russian anti-aircraft S-300 rockets," Lebanese newspaper al-Akhbar newspaper quoted Assad as saying in an interview due to be broadcast later on Thursday.
More of the missiles would arrive soon, he was quoted as saying.
Russia has said it would deliver the missile system to the Syrian government over Western objections, saying the move would help stabilize the regional balance.
A staunch ally of the Assad government, Moscow has appeared to grow more defiant since the European Union let its arms embargo on Syria expire, opening up the possibility of the West arming the rebels battling to topple the president. The embargo lapses on June 1.
The United States, France and Israel have all called on Russia to stop the missile delivery.
So much for the United Stated, French and Israel's foreign policy leverage, at least in the eyes of Gazpromia Russia, for whom preserving the veto power on Qatar gas pipelines into Europe is the only prerogative.
And just like Israel couldn't get enough of scaremongering about the Iranian nuclear facility in Fordow which was said would lead to the war if left unchecked (we are still waiting), now it is the turn to blindly accuse Syria of preemptive "defensive" violence:
Officials in Israel, the United States' main ally in the region, say the S-300 could reach deep into the Jewish state and threaten flights over its main commercial airport near Tel Aviv.
Israel, wary of any Syrian weapons being sent to Hezbollah in Lebanon, has already launched three air strikes against Damascus to stop suspected transfers.
Sources close to the Russian weapons export monopoly Rosoboronexport said last year that an earlier agreed S-300 deal had been frozen due to concerns over violence in Syria. But one of the sources said Syria had already paid 20 percent of the contract price.
Earlier this month, Israel was reported to have told Washington that Syria had begun payments for a $900 million purchase of S-300s, with an initial deliver due within three months
So if the missiles, shown below, have indeed arrived, look for red flashing headlines about loud explosions in Syria in the next 24 hours. And after that, look for even redder flashier headlines, describing Russia's response.
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Let the games begin....
Oh crap.....here we go!
Israel doesnt bluff!
When your big brother is the biggest kid in the schoolyard it's easy to run your mouth.
Size doesn't matter when you're in a gunfight.
Lovely ~ Put 'em to good use... [so much for the "WARNING" a couple of days ago]...
~~~
@maxmad ^^^^ do they "fluff"?
Finally! Someone said fuck you to Israel's face and their big bully friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtuN8UuAWTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YGaq8QW0x4
it's getting Syrias
I'm so tired of this false good guy bad guy bullshit
I hope the Russians are getting paid in gold, exactly what could the Assad regime be using to pay for advanced weapon systems? Euros? Certainly not local Syrian paper scrip.
The same way that Egypt can buy weapons from the U.S. - with the billions in foreign aid we gave them the year before.
It's all a subsidized ponzi scheme used by the super powers on both sides.
As long as you buy the weapons from our good buddies, Boeing, Raytheon, Northrup Grumman... Its all good!
How much did you say you needed in 'aid' again?
Providing 'aid' with OPM sure is easy! I also like how the article called Israel the US' main ally! Ummm, more accurately, isn't the US Israel's main puppet? With France being the 2nd most 'in the pocket'?
The key question 8s being missed. Obviously to anybody familiar with the level of sophistication of Israeli weaponry 1970nmissile systems is something they can easily avoid. So the key queston is wether they decide to humilate the Russians and their obsolete systems or they face the risk of tjose systems falling into terrorists hands.
If they humillate the Russians they may trigger an arms race again. If they dont they will increase their surbival risk. Quite a quandry for Israel.
Until next time,
Engineer
^^^^
~~~
Alas ~ we've now 'identified' Dona K's hubby...
How was the gourmet meal last night?... More importantly ~ did the wine compliment it?...
As always... Nonstop COMEDY on 'The Hedge'...
Solid fuel rocket designs don't change much, & electronics can be easily updated.
Russkie tanks worked in WW2, & their SAM's worked in Vietnam, but we'll find out soon.
Arab operators? Another story.
Bombing Israel would be a good start. Then the real cleanup could begin.
Karma is a real mother fucker.
When did Syrians become Arabs?
The diverse groups of peoples inhabiting Syria became "Arabs" when they named that area the Syrian Arabian Republic and chose Arabic as their official language.
Although not necessarily "Arabs" based on genealogical grounds, they are indeed such based on linguistic and cultural grounds.
Panethnicitically speaking, they are Arabs.
to retain their naval base in tartus this might be considered an investment not a transaction. the russians should let israel know that if they want to get cute, they will see their dimona nuclear facility razed.
"the russians should let israel know that if they want to get cute, they will see their dimona nuclear facility razed."
hmmm....yeah....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(missile)
"It is estimated that the Jericho III is an ICBM which entered service in 2008. ...three-stage solid propellant and a payload of 1,000 to 1,300 kg. It is possible for the missile to be equipped with a single 750 kg nuclear warhead or two or three low yield MIRV warheads...... It is estimated that it has a range of 4,800 to 11,500 km[7] (2,982 to 7,180 miles)."
Distance from Tel Aviv to Moscow - 1600 mi
Distance from Tel Aviv to Murmansk - 2600 mi
Purely coincidental.
I'm sure the Russians will get right on that for you.
Yeah, missiles fly two ways. I wonder how many nuclear subs are sitting in the Med just waiting to light israel's menorah. How long will that flight last?
Actually it does matter a lot. A smaller individual hit by a higher velocity rifle round has a greater chance of the bullet passing through them before fragmenting and causing massive trauma. However, if they are hit by an expanding pistol round (hollow point) the bullet has less to penetrate to hit a vital organ or blood vessel. The opposite is true for larger individuals but they are a bigger target as well.
Along those lines,
The bigger guy is an easier target (Vietnam), while the smaller guy, on his turf, is both harder to hit and has the advantage of async engagement.
If the missile batteries are operational they are not as easily destroyed as your article implies. Israel would likely lose planes and pilots in the operation. This is a big deal in that it represents the first time since the Vietnam war where bombing is not a cakewalk. If one will recall Nixon was forced to suspended bombing of Ho Chi Min City because bomber losses were too high. In fact this would be the first time since Vietnam that we have faced any advanced weapons system at all. No homemade IEDs for these guys. For us it's no longer bombing undefended civilian populations but rather penetrating air defense systems and it's been a very long time since we have had to do that. So let's see just how crazy the Israelis are. They probably think they can defeat the system without losses and will try.
I don't think so. They are quite stingy, and a jet costs a lot of money...
"If the missile batteries are operational they are not as easily destroyed as your article implies. Israel would likely lose planes and pilots in the operation. This is a big deal in that it represents the first time since the Vietnam war where bombing is not a cakewalk."
In 1991, Iraq has an integrated air defense of over 7000 SAMs, 10,000 AAA cannon (many radar directed), and 500 combat aircraft.
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Gulf_War,_Iraqi_integrated_air_defense_sy...
Allied losses to enemy action were 42 aircrft in 100,000 sorties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign
Although it could be argued that the S300 was in in the mix, the Israelis have several air launched cruise missile models in their inventory with greater (ex. double) the range of the S300.
The Russians do like their SAMs. The US (and Israelis) prefer their longer range stand-off weaponry.... a doctrine developed after Vietnam.
I agree. That said, defense systems work best when they are in an integrated strategy. The S-300's can't stand alone well. The main weakness of any SAM is you are a sitting duck while you are pinging for targets.
I'm not sure but I think when you are facing superior air power they have to do what cops do with radar guns: intermittently go hot. I would guess if your radar is in a different spot than your missile, then you only have to play cat and mouse with the radar until you launch. However, once you launch you still have to pack up and move asap.
Your comment about Vietnam is good too: it sucks to fight an enemy that doesn't care if it takes 10% casualties. If a G8 country took 1% it would result in full scale retreat and impeachment of their leader. I assume Assad would gladly pay in blood and money to down one or two Israeli fighters. What they really want is to capture some pilots, like a captain or a major, and play games, but them in orange jump suits on TV, etc.
It would result in nuclear war.
It depends on what you're fighting for - if you're fighting over stolen property, you probably wouldn't take a beating over it; if you're fighting for your property, let alone your life (and that's what this means for the Alawis), you probably would fight to death.
If the missile batteries are operational they are not as easily destroyed as your article implies. Israel would likely lose planes and pilots in the operation. This is a big deal in that it represents the first time since the Vietnam war where bombing is not a cakewalk. If one will recall Nixon was forced to suspended bombing of Ho Chi Min City because bomber losses were too high. In fact this would be the first time since Vietnam that we have faced any advanced weapons system at all. No homemade IEDs for these guys. For us it's no longer bombing undefended civilian populations but rather penetrating air defense systems and it's been a very long time since we have had to do that. So let's see just how crazy the Israelis are. They probably think they can defeat the system without losses and will try.
Pilot loss over Syrian airspace might be more unlikely than you think. At these ranges a few short-range surface to surface cruise missiles would do the job.
Send some drones over. Either the drones find the batteries or they light up the drones making their presence known.
Send some tomahawks to take out the lights.
Repeat..
What sort of countermeasures are there against cruise missiles? AAA? Didn't work so well for Iraq..
Passive radars - ever heard?
The bigger danger is the S-300's have value as terror weapons due to their range. If they can knock down planes from 200-300 miles out, Assad's crews could easily try to take down a passenger liner or two. There are also many rumors that Iran wants to see some of these diverted to Hezbollah.
Russia will have demanded assurance that this won't be allowed to happen, but it becomes an interesting blackmail tool for Assad if things get worse on his end.
Not exactly subtle is it the S300 and a bit old. How effective is it against modern aircraft?
I would imagine targeting this system (by Israel ) would be relatively easy, maybe that's what Russia wants.
Can anyone print a surface to missile yet?
Russia has had a policy for a while now, maybe 20 years, where they don't try to develop an entirely new generation of military technologies, they try to improve the current generation as much as possible. Its obviously a cost/benefit decision for them. So I don't think this S300 has all that much in common with an S300 from 1982.
The S300 can blow shit up. It's not your grandpa's SA-2. The real question is what kind of training is going to be sold with it? Give the Syrian defence teams a crash course in target aquisition against advanced SEAD operators? Maybe the sale of said systems comes with a cadre of Russian "Advisors" who actually sit in the equipment. That would be big news.
That was the point I was getting at, you can't just deliver a new system and expect the locals to jump in and it work. It would probably take them a day to find the "ON" button.
As for incremental improvements to a product there is always a limit that a system can be modernised. The S300 is big and bulky and could easily be found with modern satellite technology. OK just did some reading and they have been modifying it regularly and it has a good write up, but this version is not designed to tackle stealthy aircraft like the new version the S400.
Just maybe the Israel's know this too, and to directly attack this system would lead to Russian deaths. Then it would be game on!
The Syrians are already trained, crews were sent to Russia for training last year.
The S300 would work fine against any modern aircraft except the F22 (which I do not think Israel has any). Russia, China and India field the S300 as their primary AD weapon and the S300 seems to works perfectly fine even against the Sukhoi 30 MKI aircrafts (4.5 generation) which are one short step away from the F22 (5th Generation).
Once all the S300 have been sent to Syria, any venture into or close to Syrian airspace may not be a pleasent adventure, the Israelis know this very well and this is probably the reason for the sabre rattling from Israel.
At least they are too big to take apart and put in a pressure cooker.
Putin must want the Nobel Peace Prize....hey, it worked for obama (even before he launched hundreds of Tomahawks into Libya, surged elsewhere, increased drone strikes on Americans wo due process, etc)
I'm sure if they gave him the peas prize he'd fall in line just like O.
Hillary is next in line for the NPP. She buffed up her resume with the Lybian invasion.
Hillary is one of the sweetest, feminine, caring souls I have ever despised.
and an expert cattle futures trader, and the hero of Tuzla airport bravely staring down sniper fire
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/rich-noyes/2008/03/25/after-week-silence-tv...
What a gal. What an inspiration.
Hillary is female? Since when?
I think she had her penis removed to help her chances in the 2008 primaries. I saw it on youtube.
Saw What? Hillary or her penis on Youtube? I'm a stickler for details.
Now that Obama had made gay (GLB...) okay, when is she having her Coming Out party?
But I digress. Let's see some S&A. Shock & Awe, baby!
"Putin must want the Nobel Peace Prize....hey, it worked for obama"
And it worked for Kissinger.
May I suggest renaming this distinguished honor to ... the Orwellian 1984 Mind-Fuck Prize.
Seriously, the Nobel Committee is going to have to retract Obama's peace prize before they have ANY legitimacy (even then it will be questionable).
Those sneaky Russians!
Just two days ago they "float" the story and now they're arriving already?
They sure know how to make an impression.
But do they know if Iron Dome is effective against a 20 megaton blast in the upper atmosphere?
The EMP from a 20MT exo would take out practically the entire region's electricity, including KSA.
The immediate effect would be the loss of about 20 or so Mbbl/day of production, not to mention the wipe out of practically all nearby sats.
That is WW3.
So, Bullish!?
Goodbye ZH. last post from me.
Sadly, you are no longer relevant.
Thanks for the interesting articles on HFT and market corruption, but you have fallen victim to the whims of your conspiracy crazed readers, and your work product has suffered.
Time to move on.
Later.
Sssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ya.
Writing about impending WWIII is irrelevant? Really?
He knows israel's days are numbered and he just can't admit it.
The place just won't be the same without LasVegasDave's lighthearted, mirthful sense of humor and happy-go-lucky attitude.
thank you
http://www.voltairenet.org/article178638.html
''To spread their war agenda, neoconservatives could rely of Rupert Murdoch’s powerful News Corporation, which owned 175 written publications selling more than 40 millions newspapers each week, and 35 TV channels reaching 110 million viewers on four continents. En 2003, all of them were in favor of the war against Iraq. Murdoch is a friend of Ariel Sharon and a loyal supporter of the Likud party. He is also close to Tony Blair, who is the godfather of one of his children.''
2 Years and 12 weeks - down the drain.
"Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow"
Goodbye ZH. last post from me.
Well, I for one will miss your knee-jerk pro-Zionism.
only the elephants are relevant
especially the ones ignored in your room
Flatus!
Don't let the door hit ya where God split ya.
U plagiarized my saying
You'll be back ya little turd.
Once you bounce around in the world of MarketWatch, HuffPost, Mish and all the other "no longer relevant" websites you'll wish you'd never published your retirement on ZH.
Although, next time you decide to leave, just leave, don't stand around the door jam announcing your departure waiting for the door knob to slam into your ass on the way out the door and expect the rest of us to give two fly squats.
And, maybe Tyler will help by freezing your account so you can't slither your way back in.
Guys like that have multiple profiles anyway. Maybe his internet tunnel from Langley was getting hacked by Anonymous and he needed to cauterize it.
Dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
I like sayin that come on back when you give up being a zionist sympathizer
On this historic day, I would like to invite everyone to Einstein's bagel company. The lox and bagels are on me. Good bye Yiddy boy.
Ditto. It's sad to see the ZH economics buffs ruin their credibility and timbre of voice by engaging in arenas far outside their educations and expertise.
Have fun jacking off all the loons in this community, Tylers. I'm not interested in information brokers turned crack dealers.
Spare us the dramarrhea.
If you can't handle ZH, then just leave.
Israhell bluffs, lies, deceives and every other thing that "good Christians" are forbidden to do. It's a Talmudic Jew thing. It is actually encouraged against all goyim (anyone other than Jews). This is the viewpoint of the hardcore, Communist style Jews. Not all Jews are bad. Most are about as "Jewish" as other people are "Christian".
They have nuclear weapons, and will use them as a last resort. But they can only play that horrific card once.
WW2 didn't harm a hair on the banker's head, nor the closely held corporate oligarchy. Biblical prophesy declares Israel must be destroyed. There are a lot of Christians who seek this end to achieve the return of their Messiah. So, if this piece of desert gets blown up, you have Christian support and then you can install your new King of the World. Crazy, huh? Damn conspiracy kooks....
Biblical prophesy declares Israel must be destroyed...
It's already happened.
After the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70ad, all the records used to determine a persons ancestry back to Jacob / Israel were lost forever.
The best anyone can do is to assume blood lineage through adoption. As far as I know, there's no jew DNA test available, so every human being on the earth is free to determine the family one wishes to be adopted into. It's equally true for Abraham's other sons from Hagar and Katura. There are no records available anymore so we're all bastards at best.
The fighting is all based on desiring what someone else has.
imho.
While it is agreed that most modern Jews are no more Jewish than sons of Japhet, I suspect the records or copies thereof remain within the depths of the Vatican... There are Egyptian stories which claim to know the heritage, i.e. "Book of the Bee", although it would be suspect as any text allowed to the masses. Another text worth reading is, "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus Flavius. It is interesting to note that there are MANY different men named Jesus in this text. Hieronymous "Phonecian Antiquities" is also recommended. There is a lot of interesting reading out there. The best thing to do is to read it all, and perform a comparative analysis, looking for common threads.
Israel's entire existence is one big bluff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YorwoqFGCn4
Zionists got themselves in a very interesting situation: either they accept a no-fly zone over Israel at Russian choosing or terribly compromise zionists bankning interests in Russia.
In any case, after the Qaddafi murder, Putin is trusting nobody and needs a war to rally Russian people behind him.
Anti-Assad extremists trying to smuggle chemical weapon into Syria were detained inside Turkey.
Turkish security services assigned to combat terrorism have detained 12 alleged members of the extremist group, the Frente al-Nusra, reported Thursday by EFE.
The detention took place in southern Turkey. The investigators suggest that the militants were going to Syria to join their group fighting against the forces of President Bashar Al-Assad.
The Turkish media have reported that, during the search of the detainees, 2 kg drums with a chemical weapon Sarin were discovered. Turkish authorities have not confirmed this yet.
PS
Sarin is an extremely potent nerve agent. It has been classified as a weapon of mass destruction in UN Resolution 687. Production and stockpiling of Sarin was outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993 found.
Wow you just won the joke of the day! Israel has been "threatening to bomb iran for years now" in order to get the west to apply sanctions.
And yet, WTI crude continues to plummet.....
wait wut... you thought these numbers moved because of fundamentals and shit?
Well, one does require cheap oil in order to go to war.
and cheap people to get us there
Just perpetual fuedal serfs.
So, let's welcome with open arms our new soon to be amnestied immigrant warriors from Mexico such that once they become US citizenisms they can be immediatly drafted to fight in Uncle Sugar's Imperial wars.
with any luck we will see the al quaeda irregulars ( aka mccain's penpals) continue to be turned into hamburger, now with the odd piece of u.s. "foreign aid" fall from the sky.
p.s. in before some bald eagle skin boot wearing hoss says lol russia, 'merica pew pew pew.
All this fuz about these missiles but they are ONLY FOR DEFENSE, Syria can't attack anyone of these, just shut down planes that try to bomb them. I'd understand Israel concern if they got attack tactical missiles.
Agreed, and for a fucking 1970s missle at that. The god damned counter measures are 40 years ahead of it, so it's effectiveness is likely 0.0%. Russian scam on Syria is all it is.
just like the 1962 'cuban missile crisis',... a year later kennedy was assasinated!
,... and china invades india [LAC] in 1962
fifty-one+/+ years later and india's (very reliant upon russia?) becoming a drag on hydro-power and a deterrent (roadblock) for a quick resolution regarding "IPI" via China or 'TAPI' via China. could be an opportunity???
diversions, diversions, diversions,...
We shall find out promptly if Israel was bluffing
Izreel added: The fucking usa will do whatever we tell them to do so big brother will kick your ass if you don't knock it off.
Kewl truck.
DHS just put in an order for 1000.
I checked the sticker. Apparently it gets 40 gallons/mile on the highway.
Says something about guaranteeing you will never get stopped by the cops, but I don't understand that.
Might be because they only do 20MPH.
Isn't it your patriotic duty to prefer the comparatively over-priced one with the Made in the USA sticker?
(w/ or w/o a Patriot Missle erector/launcher)
Family Concerned After John McCain Wanders Into Syria
http://www.theonion.com/articles/family-concerned-after-john-mccain-wanders-into-sy,32601/
Family Concerned After John McCain Wanders Into Syria
Hopefully he was wearing his medical I have dimentia bracelet, and they send him home with a tag around his neck.
They can keep that asshat, no returns!
McCain bears a striking resemblance to Darth Sidious.
Without the charm and with much bigger cheek pouches.
the idiots had alzheimer and bi-polar problems for the last score... in time-outs!
he would have been a great president,... having mental-hardships like reagan? what president?, 'ouch-standing credential materials has obami other than being a fluffing hope-peddler with a pocket of fair-weather change that runs the gammit from jersey shores to moore,ok... a storm chaser with a penchant for war?!
Vlad's drawing his line in the sand. He woulndn't extend $900m in credit if he didn't think Assad could remain in power.
Gentlemen - and ladies ;)
I was at Riga airport back in 1992 when a C-141 was loaded with AN ENTIRE S-300 BATTERY, trucks 'n all.
Therein concludes my comment.
Been a few changes since '92 I imagine...
I think he is referring to the small footprint of hardware.
Small footprint, long range, high altitude, NO MAINTENANCE.
Russians can't make cars for shit, but they sure do know how to make rockets and missiles.
And SKS and AK-47. They suck for mounting a scope however.
The T-34/85 was one of the best tanks of WW2 if not THE best.
Russians are good at making practical war fighting equipment that is rugged and easy to maintain, if needed at all.
I have an AK-47, but its a hunting rifle, not an assault weapon.
The Panzer was the best tank of WWII. The caveat was that the Russkies could make 10 T-34s for every Panzer the Germans could build. On top of the 20 Shermans/Panzer that the US was shipping over.
I am guessing you are refering to the PZ5 which was a great tank, had great optics, good mobility and a solid primary gun with a steep angle of declination allowing use of hull-down defilade tactics.
But its drawbacks were that it was a complicated machine with parts to it that no other tank had and that complicated its logistics. The Germans did that alot and seemed to not appreciate the value of standardized models; their whole logisitical system was needlessly crammed with esoteric parts that only worked on one tank model and nothing else.
So the Russians could make and maintain 10 T34/85s for every one PZ5, and that makes the T34/85 a better tank due to more 'bang/buck'.
Kudos, for not trying to champion the King Tiger tank, an over-rated slow behemoth that was most often lost due to running out of fuel.
Yeah! It's like a Nuclear armed B-52. Not dangerous cuz it's old. Derp.
Edit: I think i misunderstood your comment LeMay......Deeerp. My point is that continous upgrades make old designs quite capable.
You could have just pointed out that the Patriot was also originally developed in the 60's & 70's, and I don't think those were the models the US taxpayer was buying for Israel, or Israel that was reselling to the Chinese.
S-300 missiles are some serious hardware. The question is, who will be operating the SAM sites? Russians? Syrians?
Just wait until an "Israeli" jet is shot down ... will that be the precursor for US intervention?
I'll laugh my ass off if Israel wags the dog's tail and those S300s end up being modified and capable of bringing down a B2 or five.
yeah, serious hardware that's operated by backwards ass molsems. Trust me, they could tear up a fucking anvil with a rubber hammer.
How many wars have they gotten their asses whipped in? And I'm talking all the way back to Vienna, Lepanto...
Backwards ass moslems or molsems as you wrote is more befitting the Free Shit Army. The SAA is considerably less backwards, they are actually a military force and not a splintered clusterfuck of mostly terrible people.
I hear some of those backwards ass moslems keep killing their advanced corporate invaders in Afghanistan.
In Iraq, the IEDs used electronics from cheap toys, and kept evolving ... by the week. Just saying. Underestimating your opponent gets you killed fast.
thats bearish right, minister of propaganda says that shall not be on the boob tube.
please refrain from any truth telling less u reap the wrath of the mk ultra boys and we will assimilate u
Meh, what's wrong with a few defensive rockets...these aren't scuds are the?
What is wrong with these defensive rockets? These are offensive weapons...
These rockets stop Israel from conducting defensive exercises such as flying into other nations sovereign airspace and bombing their military and civilian assets. It is clearly an offensive gesture when a nation seeks to limit Israel's defensive offensives...
bingo. from a warmongering point of view, pre-emptive strike is DEFENSE.
pre-emptive strike is DEFENSE...
Not that this is a game, but I always wondered why the NFL didn't play like flag football where the defense was not allowed to go over the line of scrimmage.
Or at least you had to count to 5 or something.
Exactly. Israel is pissed off because those missiles might hinder their ability to fly over syria with military aircraft whenever they want. Fuck Izreel.
These missiles, while formidable, can, have and will be countered.
They may change Israel's tactics, but in no way assure the security of Syria's air space.
Far from it, in fact.
Could someone please explain to me* why these missiles keep getting referred to as 'advanced' in the MSM? According to wiki they were first deployed in the '70s.
*I mean, apart from the usual MSM scaremongering
Same basic design, but a new block.
Upgraded electronics, radar, etc...
Still, they are not the best available.
The tactics for defeating them are well established.
perhaps you need better sources than wikipedia or its televised msm equivalent...
The russians themselves are using the S 400 models.
They figured the s300 are enough for the US jets in eretz israel
The reason Israel is pissed is likely because their plan to hit Iran is now behind schedule. If the IAF planned to get to Iran from a Syrian air corridor, that corridor is now potentially blocked by the S-300
In general, I'd say the whole scheme to replace Assad is in serious trouble - I can remember the MSM stooges last year heralding the advances of the Qatari/CIA mercenaries as they got closer and closer to Damascus and proclaiming the imminent fall of Assad.
I'd say the tide is turning in the other direction - a NATO "no-fly-zone" is an act of desperation IMHO and is *very* dangerous.
I suspect that in the Russian point of view, Syria is like Stalingrad.I'd be extremely surprised if Putin lets this one go. If nothing else, its a chance to pay back a bit for what NATO did to Serbia. Remember that?
Assad has held out for much longer than expected. The problem is that Assad is now getting reinforcements, Hezbollah at least, probably the Iranians, and LIKELY Russian special forces if for no other reason, than for the training opportunity - hell, even the Chinese may also be contributing...
I think Assad is going to survive this, or this "civil war" will spin out of control into WWIII (perhaps the plan?)
Well if he does survive(Assad),at least one feared Dictatorship won't be handed over the radical Islamists groups.( see Libia, and Egypt).
They will undoubtably be manned or supervised by Russian crews I imagine. Wonder what other Russian support is going to be revealed?
The Israeli Bluff or the Israeli Mistake?
"Volunteer" troops.
If they are smart the crews will be Russian. That way if Israel attacks them then it will be an act of war against Mother Russia. Israel aint got the stones, even if they had the backing of America, which they don't. Americans as a general rule could give two shits about those Tuscan raiders in the Middle East fighting over that scrap of land in the desert and in no way, shape or form are willing to commit more of our young troops to come to their aid.
Mine's bigger.
Anti-aircraft missles? Use cruise missles from Israeli subs instead.
which the newer s-300s were designed to intercept...
Well, Boris isn't here yet, so I'll take a swing.
In communist Russia, company sell big rocket to secular leader of Arab country.
West not like. Jew not like. Sharia not like. Talk like wanting fight.
Communist Russia like fight.
According to Jane's the S 300 has been deployed in Syria since 1996.
This is an upgrade to existing systems.
The fact that it has been announced means it has alredy been done,which explains
the loss of one Israeli ,and two Turkish aircraft .Rumor has it that an Israeli sub has
also been sunk by Syria.
If true, that would go far to explain Israel's tone.
Who Are The Neoconservatives?
By Laurent Guyénot
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35106.htm
This is the best bit Ive read about the stinking, lying, theiving, war starting, chickenshit, chickenHawk neo-cons..........
these neo-cons make me sick to my stomach
When I realized those guys were progressives......I felt the same way.
progressives? as if the water wasn't muddy enough.
where are the humans? why don't they open their mouths
in public as just humans, it isn't enough to give one
standing in these parts at this time? ....
are we movement dependent, party dependent units with
no measure of our own?
then a party would be established and the organizational
mandates and dictates would overwhelm the message? someone would
castigate their formality and , once again, the cons and neocons
would convince enough people in positions to do the
thing, to go along with the fiat money charade for personal
gain and profit, betraying the human in humanity.
" when the angel woos the clay, he'll lose his
wings at the dawn of the day." raglan road
.
http://imgur.com/a/Jexvo
.
moar fa lata .....
what a scam , the notion of a "world at large".
self perpetuated agony that justifies the indifference and
violence loathed, it is a scam of biblical proportion;
there are no masters of it just delinquents and fools
in full paranoia masks begging and praying for death to
come quick, but to thy neighbor.
the gods must have a sense of humor, maybe derived from
those lost by men?
The Fraud of Neoconservative "Anti-Communism"
By Max Shpak
Neoconservatives and their apologists would have the public believe that the neocons were former Leftists who saw the light and came to reject liberal or Marxist ideology as a matter of conviction and principle. Regrettably, this official line has come to be conventional wisdom, no doubt reflecting neocon efforts to hide the fact that their transformation was neither sincerely motivated nor sincerely enacted. To understand the real agenda that drove and continues to drive much of neoconservatism, one needs to look back to the origins of the movement and the cultural backgrounds of those who lead it.
It is a well-established fact that many of the early luminaries of neoconservatism (most famously Irving Kristol in the 1940's, a more recent famous example being David Horowitz) came from Marxist backgrounds, and that neoconservatism (like Marxism itself) began and continues to be a largely a phenomenon of Jewish intellectualism. In the early part of the 20th century, Marxism attracted a disproportionate pool of Jewish recruits for a number of obvious reasons. There are a number of complex psychological and social reasons for the attraction, all of which largely stem from the fact that Marxist internationalism is an ideology which by its very nature finds disciples among a rootless, anti-religious urban intelligentsia.
More important for the purposes of this analysis, however, are the practical reasons for Jewish sympathy with Bolshevism. European and American Jews alike carried deep-seated hatreds for the traditional regimes and religions of the European continent, particularly Czarist Russia and various Eastern European nations due to (real and imagined) "persecution" and "pogroms" that occurred there. Thus, when the Bolsheviks overthrew the Czar, destroyed the hated Orthodox Church, rendered powerless the landed religious peasantry, and replaced traditional Russian authority with a largely Jewish Commissariate, world Jewry (including alleged "capitalists" like the Schiffs and Rothschilds) embraced the Revolution and Marxist ideology alike.
With Russia becoming an effective Jewish colony where "anti-Semitism" was an offense punishable by death and the native gentile culture was effectively stamped out (thanks to a leadership consisting mainly of Jews such as Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev, and Severdlov (Sverdlov), held together under the stewardship of the obsequious philosemite Lenin), Jews throughout the world put their hopes in the possibility of similar revolutions elsewhere. Indeed, their comrades in arms were hard at work affecting similar changes in Hungary (Kuhn), Austria (Adler) and Germany (Eisner). The rise of Fascist and Nazi movements only served to further polarize Jewish support in favor of international communism.
This near unanimity would change as a result of two developments: a shift in the character of Soviet Communism on the one hand and the foundation of the State of Israel on the other. Stalin's purges of many of his former Bolshevik colleagues (including Trotsky, who was assassinated while in exile), his 1939 pact with Hitler, and rumors of Stalin's own anti-Jewish prejudices gave many would-be supporters pause. When Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, it became clear the Russian masses would not fight for the sake of Bolshevism, an ideology that brought them so much misery, but rather for the sake of Russian blood and soil. From then on, the Soviet leadership had to court the very Russian nationalist elements that the early Bolsheviks had worked so hard to stamp out. This lead to an increasing tolerance towards the Russian Orthodox Church and a decreased Jewish presence in the Soviet politburo and KGB. Thus, the USSR was "betraying" the very elements that made it attractive to the Jewish establishment to begin with.
Perhaps even more significant a factor in the origins of neoconservatism was the emergence of an independent Israeli state. While many Jewish Marxists eagerly supported the Zionist state, the more intellectually consistent Left opposed Zionism on the grounds that all nationalisms, including Jewish ones, are enemies of global proletarian revolution. Thus, Jewish leftists who once advocated internationalism for gentile nations were forced to come to terms with the implications of this ideology for their own nationalist sentiments. Thus, they needed an ideology which would let them have their cake (opposing gentile nationalism) and eat it too (by supporting Israel), and they found just such a worldview with neoconservatism.
At the same time, although the Soviet Union initially courted Israel during the 1948 wars of independence, it became clear to the Israeli government that in world polarized between the United States and the Soviet Union the former would be wealthier and more pliant cash cow to milk. By the 1950's and the coming of the Suez Wars, regardless of residual Jewish loyalties to Communism, the battle lines were already drawn, with Israel in the US/Western camp and the Arab nations forced to make alliances of convenience with the Soviet Union.
It is hardly a coincidence that the changing character of Soviet Communism and the status of Israel as a US ally came at the same time that neoconservatism was becoming an influential political movement. For all of their talk about "capitalism," "democracy," "freedom," and "free markets," the fact that so many Jewish leftists turned on a dime to back the US in the Cold War because America could serve as a life support system for Israel and a bulwark against resurgent Russian "anti-Semitism" makes their real agenda entirely transparent. One can witness an identical phenomenon taking place today, as many Jewish liberal Democrats switch party ranks and join the GOP because of the latter's stronger support for Israel and harder line with the Arab nations. All of the window dressing about their newfound "patriotism" and "Americanism" is a sham designed to mask the fact that the question for the neocons has always been and will always be "is it good for the Jews?"
The different agendas driving neocon Cold Warriors as opposed to their erstwhile Old Right allies could be seen on any number of fronts. The most obvious one has been the different reactions in the two camps to Russia after the end of the Cold War. While paleoconservative leaning Cold Warriors such as Pat Buchanan have pushed for normalized relations with Russia, the neocons continue to fight on the Cold War, enthusiastically supporting Chechen separatists as "freedom fighters" and advocating NATO expansion. The reasons for this difference are entirely obvious: the Old Right's enemy was Communist ideology, while neoconservative Jews nurtured a hatred for Russian nationalism. Thus post-Communist Russia is still very much a threat to the latter, particularly with resurgent Russian "ultra-nationalism" and "anti-Semitism," while in the absence of Communist rule the above are of little concern to the Old Right.
For all their talk about "anti-Communism," the real engine driving neocon Cold Warrior instincts was punishing the hated Russian goyim for the sin of "anti-Semitism," not any opposition to residual or latent Marxism. As further evidence that this is the case, one need only consider the fact that while the Old Right championed Christian dissidents such as Solzhenitsyn, to the neocons the only legimate "dissidents" were Zionists like Natan Sharansky, just as the only "refugees" championed by the neos were invariably Jewish (including today's shady Odessa Mafiosi). Solzhenitsyn represented the Russian nationalism and Orthodox Church that made so many of the neocons' predecessors embrace Bolshevism, thus Solzhenitsyn and the plight of Christian dissidents were relegated to obscurity in neocon publications, while Zionist noise-makers in the USSR were given a hero's welcome.
In this regard, the neocons are the true heirs to Leon Trotsky, who condemned Stalin and his followers not so much for their brutality (as commander of the Red Army and overseer of Lenin's terrorist CHEKA, Trotsky was no stranger to brutality and sadism) but for their "anti-Semitism" and "betrayal of the Revolution." Trotsky's main critique of Stalinism seemed to be that Stalin was moving Russia in a nationalist direction rather than working towards the establishment of an international "proletarian" vanguard. The fact that the intellectual ancestors of neoconservatism had not an unkind word to say about Bolshevism while Leninist-Trotskyite goals were being fulfilled suggests that it was not so much ideological reconsideration as tribal self-interest that drove these most unlikely conversos.
Because their move from the Left to a pseudo-right was insincere, one would expect to find a whole range of issues where the neocons retain leftist instincts and remain true to their Trotskyite heritage. Indeed this is the case. In their portrayal of the Cold War as a struggle between "capitalism" on the one hand and "socialism" on the other, the neocons try to minimize the fact that in many ways the conflict between the Bolsheviks and the West was over much more than economic systems. To most on the Old Right, the economic issues were at best peripheral: Marxism was opposed because it was materialistic, atheistic, and because it rejected nationalism and patriotism in the name of global revolution.
Most neocons came from a culture that was every bit as materialistic and cosmopolitan as the early Bolshevik leaders, so it is rather unlikely that they would have any quarrel with these aspects of Communist doctrine. The fact that neoconservatism is an ideology which is materialistic in nature and internationalist in focus (with its talk of "global democracy" and "global markets") makes it obvious that the fundamental underpinnings of the Marxist Left are alive and well among the scribblers of Commentary and The Weekly Standard. Their "conservative" pretenses seem limited to the fact that they oppose "socialism" (of the nationalist variety) in the name of "capitalism" (of the internationalist variety), and for all too many naïve people that seems to be sufficient and believable.
Understanding the true nature of the neoconservatives illuminates the essence of the struggle between the Right and the Left. It was never a struggle between "capitalism" and "socialism" as neoconservative or Communist progaganda would have one believe. Rather, it was always a conflict between spiritualism and materialism, between nationalism and globalism, between tradition and subversion, between the defenders of Western Civilization and its enemies. With the battle lines drawn as such, it is abundantly clear where the neocons stand. Many "capitalists" understood that economic means are not significant, only the desired end. Jacob Schiff understood it when he financed the Bolsheviks, just as Rupert Murdoch, Ted Turner, Marc Rich, Boris Berezovsky, and George Soros understand that their form of "capitalism" is fully compatible with the essence of the Left, and that they can find friends and allies among the ostensibly conservative neocons.
Unfortunately, many Rightists are not nearly as perceptive in their choice of allies.
Whew. That took me a while to scroll past.