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Guest Post: Would It Make Sense For The Fed To Not Manipulate The Gold Price?

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Submitted by Lucas Jackson

Would It Make Sense For The Fed To NOT Manipulate The Gold Price?

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practise to deceive!”

      -Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, 1808
 
I was having a conversation with a client the other day and we were discussing all the machinations going on in the markets and politics today.  Without being too unnecessarily long, let’s review a few of the latest “conspiracy theories” turned “conspiracy facts” shall we:

 

Conspiracy Theory      Conspiracy Fact
The TBTF banks are committing fraud in the RMBS market.   Turns out they were.  Linda Green was quite busy.  Potentially millions of Americans were evicted from their homes by the banks knowingly submitting falsified documents.  Fines were paid and settlements made but not a single banker goes to jail.  Fact.
The TBTF banks are manipulating LIBOR.   True again.  Case is ongoing but manipulating LIBOR had apparently become old hat for many years.  Mid-level executives and traders will be sacrificed but unlikely any CEO or central banker is indicted although they all had to know and approve.
The TBTF banks are facilitating global money laundering activity for Mexican drug cartels.   True.  HSBC.  Again, fines paid and settlements made but not a single person indicted.  DOJ is scared prosecuting anyone at the TBTF might upset the economy.  This position, in my humble opinion, is beyond ridiculous.
The IRS is targeting the President’s political rivals.   True.  Heaven help you (and your wallet) if you decided to exercise your constitutional rights to form a Tea Party or Patriot-type political group.
The Justice Department is wiretapping reporters whose views contradict the storyline the White House wants in the public.   True.  Heaven help you (and your wallet) if you decided to exercise your constitutional rights to form a Tea Party or Patriot-type political group.
The White House lied to the public about what happened in Benghazi.   The uprising was caused by an anti-Islamic video that was circulating on Youtube.  That’s all.  Uhhh, you sure?  This had nothing to do with the very same shady rebels we had been funding?
The Fed, in coordination with other Western central banks is suppressing the price of gold artificially                                                                       ???

 

Et tu, aurum?
 
The big question that many investors want to know is what is going on with the gold price?  The big smash down recently, at some stages reaching 8 sigma down moves on essentially no news (hmmm, fishy, but I’m sure the ‘hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil’ folks at the CFTC are on the case), has many investors tending to their wounds. 
 
However, even with the Fed pumping trillions into the market in an obvious effort to manipulate asset prices, to suggest the Fed, BIS and other central banks are actively conspiring against gold is still seen as heresy.
 
But should it be?
 
When the client to whom I was speaking said, “What proof do you have that the Fed is suppressing the price of gold?”, I got to thinking, why don’t we consider the question from another angle.
 
If I was Bernanke and was risking my entire reputation and a nasty place in history if things go badly, (nice to meet you Herr Von Havenstein) on engineering a recovery and a rising gold price could potentially unravel all my printing largess and solvency schemes, why wouldn’t I manipulate the price of gold?
 
Does it really make any sense at all that Bernanke would leave gold to trade in an open and transparent market?  Hardly.
 
Consider.  The Fed has conjured multiple trillions of digital dollars out thin air in the last five years.  These efforts have propped up the Treasury market, the domestic TBTF banks, the foreign TBTF banks, the ECB, the BOE, every European sovereign bond market, the RMBS market, the CMBS market, the equity market, the housing market and the entire industrial and soft commodity complexes, to name a few.
 
Since the price of gold we see on our Bloomberg screens is set via derivatives and overwhelmingly settled in USD, the ability for central banks and bullion banks to manipulate the price of gold is way too easy.  All the bullion banks have to do is coordinate (as in LIBOR), sell in size and punish anyone in their way. 
 
Take losses?  No problem, more fiat can be conjured post-haste.  So long as no one is taking physical delivery, the band(k) plays on.  (Actually, physical demand delivery IS becoming a major new problem for the banks but this is a topic for a different note.)
 
A quickly rising gold price upsets this fiat-engineered, centrally planned, non-market based recovery.  Gold left to its’ own devices would signal the unwinding the rehypothecated world of shadow banking where latent monetary inflation goes to summer (think of it as the monetary Hamptons where only the Wall Street elite get to play). 
 
It would signal the true rise of many emerging market countries at the expense of their creditors in developed markets. 
 
But most importantly, it would signal a huge lack of faith in the US dollar.  A currency backed by nothing more than faith in central banking.
 
A faith which is dying a little every day.  Just ask the Japanese or Europeans how confident they are in their own Oracles of Delphi.  This loss of faith in central banking immediately translates into a loss of faith in the currency and just as quickly works its magic on bond prices – meaning lower bond prices and higher rates.
 
So without being too ranty, I’ll end this one short today.  Just remember, the next time someone is questioning why the Fed would be manipulating gold, turn the question around and ask them what incentive Bernanke has to NOT manipulate the price of gold.
 
And fortunately for Bernanke, as the list above illustrates, he’s living in Washington D.C. at exactly the right moment to do whatever he wants, lie about it and get away with it.

 

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Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:19 | 3611760 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Does it matter????   They ARE!!! Consider it a gift and accumulate your physical

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:22 | 3611765 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

yeah yeah, i wonder who bought at 1800 (considered it a gift) and is now holding the bag?

gold is everything else than a sureshot.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:39 | 3611813 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I had to quit reading when I hit the line about "Bernanke risking his entire reputation and a nasty place in history if things go badly."

For someone talking about conspiracy theories, this author sure doesn't understand how history works. Why would he EVER think that history is static?

On any given day in the future, history will be written however they wish it to be portrayed, in order to empower yet another ruse.

Only chumps believe in a history that aligns with their views of the present.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:48 | 3611842 Manthong
Manthong's picture

And if they didn’t manipulate VIX, people might become suspect or lose faith in the stock market.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:01 | 3611886 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

People at office water coolers actually talk about gold prices being manipulated by the FED?

Incredulous!

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:37 | 3612008 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Gold manipulated?!!!!! Incredulous? No....... It's... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58LpHBnvsI

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:51 | 3612038 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

I hope Ben doesn't spend all his limitless manipulating money in one place.

It might make the world think the US dollar is a fraud of limitless magnitude.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:02 | 3612067 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

The FED isn't manipulating the Gold Price, their owners are!

And those no good Chinese who need to build Gold Reserves for next years devaluation; they have nice new buldings and offices ready for the big Banks to move across.

See, it so perdy! https://www.google.com.au/search?q=shanghai&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=tOanUYKBGsbJiAfW4YCwDg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1093&bih=494

Especially at night; the smog gives it that...Blade Runner ambiance.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:49 | 3614848 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

WTF,

The entire article next to the "Conspiracy Theory" points is obscured by an ad.

What gives ?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:04 | 3612044 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

I sure hope he didn’t plagiarise my recent plagiarism.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-22/irs-lois-lerner-re-subpoeaned-after-waiving-her-right-plead-fifth#comment-3590058

Does this mean we’re re-hypothecating?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:08 | 3612118 noless
noless's picture

Yeah, one of guest posters the tylers drop on here has released a couple articles recently which mimic some of my more lucid rants(within days of me posting..), with a few slight alterations(which don't material impact the sentiment or meaning..)

I wasn't going to bring it up because primarily Its not like i hold it together enough to maintain credibility, so whatever. Still though.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:04 | 3612097 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Here is some proof:

Terry Smeeton of the BOE held back the gold fix price in the 1980s by selling HMT EEA gold into the fix. Oliver Page, later at the FSA, monitored Smeeton's manipulation as part of BOE risk control. Presently, there is no transparency on how and when the BOE enters the gold fixing through the Bank's agent (the chairperson). You think they don't act through the chair? :)

Presently, the Bank of England acts as the clearer of last resort in the LPMCL clearing system (AURUM). After the 6 clearers have netted their trades (ie cleared between themselves), the BOE 'sorts out' the net clearing figure using its gold stock. So it can come to the rescue with 'physical' which isnt really physical, and bail out the 6 clearers when needed.

In 1999, the BOE, Bundesbank, Banque de France and ECB vetoed an IMF proposal to distinguish between gold and gold receivables, a veto which to this day has caused havoc for anyone trying to interpret central bank balance sheet figures.

A new gold pool was discussed in depth by the BIS governors in 1979/1980 and only stalled at that time due to German and French political issues. It was revived in 1983 by Fritz Leutwiler and took the form of a method to transfer gold to the Saudis without letting the gold price increase.

Thats just for openers...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 02:01 | 3612560 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Let's simplify things, eh?

US debt (give or take) is  $18 Trillion.

US gold reserves (give or take, WTFKnows?) 8,133.5  tons or 261,498,100 oz (Dec 2012, WGC:  short tons converted to troy ounces). 

$18,000,000,000.000,000.00 (Trillion) redeemed for 261,498,100 troy ounces, or reduced:

18,000,000 divided by 261.4981 = 68,834.1521 

Simplified, if the dollar debt alone was redeemable in gold, the price of gold in US $ph(m)oney... = 1 : $68,834.15, per ounce, give or take.

Bubble?

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:06 | 3611895 Prince Eugene o...
Prince Eugene of Savoy's picture

If those who bought phyzz at $1800/ and are now upset, then they didn't dollar cost average and gambled. Buy using an easy installment plan, and hang on to your phyzz.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:32 | 3611986 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I didn't buy any at $1800, but I gotta say that it probably doesn't matter much if buying physical because TODAY it looks like a paper loss but that magical hour fast approaches when you will either wake up and gold will be $3000/oz or it will be banned.  Something drastic is going to happen, and the potential failure of the banking system and the Fed is never taken fully into consideration when looking at the day to day price gyrations of a manipulated competitor to the Fed and their paper junk.

I'd rather buy at $1800 and hold it for a few years than be a day late when it's at $1400.  And the truth is no one knows the future, so you can say that today is the bottom but it could be $1000 in a week.

My point is the paper price is a con.  Dealers and miners are waking up to that reality.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:48 | 3612026 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I don't think these guys will "wake up" even if the price is $3000.00. They'd rejoice if it was banned though. Their game could go on.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 22:34 | 3612501 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

I never much thought about purchasing a firearm. I grew up in the country but never developed an affinity for hunting but don't have a problem with the people that hunt deer and feral hogs becuase most I know make productive use of the animals. I bought a 3030 in 2008 after Obama was elected because I started re-thinking a need to be more self reliant. Late last year I was in an Academy and had been watching this administration and the debt clock, riots in Greece and reading ZH. I decided  I needed to prepare more so bought a carbine and lots of ammo. I remember telling my Brother in law that I really didn't see the need to buy it but thought "it better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. "  Same goes for Gold and Silver.  Best to have it at whatever price you paid becuase one day it will happen that there are bids and no offers.  If you are willing to hold it for 5-10 years then ultimately you will do better. I don't think we have that much time, maybe 1-2 years but if I ever question what I'm doing, I simply go look at the debt clock and ask myself has anything changed?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 23:25 | 3612630 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Having read a bunch of SHTF fiction and several economic collapse history books over the past couple of years, I would suggest you concentrate on water and food.  Without water and food supplies there is really no point to guns and gold.  If you believe that it will never get to the point where food and water are hard to come by, then keep buying bullion and bullets.  I continue to stockpile "beans".

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:40 | 3611936 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Yeah, yeah. And who's holding money of substance? Who's manipulated the price down from the high with paper promises to deliver, which are leveraged to the physical 100 times over? Ask the Germans the same question and you will receive a look of utter incredulity. Are you from planet Krypton or something? What kind of disingenuous argument of yours, is that.

You ever heard of LIBOR, Cypress, MF Global, TARP, QE1 -2-3-4-?-?-???, The Federal Reserve, Fractional Reserve Banking, Ledger Entry loans? Derivitives? If you are on this site I'd bet that you have. Maybe you're not trying to be deceptive at all. It might be that you are simply as dumb as you portray, because after the destruction of purchasing power of the dollar by 98% or so since its inception, there is no excuse in these times of information access, for a mature adult to hold the belief that irredeemable credit notes are mponey of substance or certificates of honest intent. There is only one reason to be enamoured and that is you are a paper chasing bug bereft of foresight. I can't wait for the day that you and your kindred, myopic, dullards, join the ranks of starving billionaires, collectively digging for flecks of gold in some mud hole in exchange for a bag of white rice.

Here's some guys who didn't deserve it,  http://pavlopoulos.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/starving-billionaire1.jpg but you, you've got it coming.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:11 | 3612299 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

yeah yeah, i wonder who bought at 1800 (considered it a gift) and is now holding the bag?

gold is everything else than a sureshot.

 

I paid $300 an ounce (for Gold Eagles) when I started acumulating. I've been buying all along and I have a few Gold Eagles I paid $1,700 for. I'm still very far ahead of any other investment I could have perused. I remember people telling me I was crazy to invest in Gold (Eagles) at $300 each.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 04:15 | 3612848 auric1234
auric1234's picture

I bought at $2015. No regrets.

When funny paper money breaks down, we'll see who got it right and who didn't.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:49 | 3612040 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

God save our Central Bank
Long live our Central Bank
God save The Bank
Send her victorious
Happy and glorious
Long to reign over us
God save The Bank

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:51 | 3612221 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

the price of gold is fixed???   ___>>>>>

just google "London fix" and see how a fist of dinosaurs of the old school european oligarchy decide twice a day, in the Rothchilds building nothing less, what the price should be fixed at over the phone!!! WTF

 

also see this

for a fresh message from cpt benny...

http://zysites.com/silververitas/

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 20:56 | 3617381 papaclop
papaclop's picture

It is great if you are just accumulating metal or mining stocks. I am, however, sick of JP Morgan et al manipulating markets, selling metal they don't have, screwing small investors and raking in billions while eating from the taxpayer trough whenever their risky trades turn against them. Meanwhile, the glorious CFTC does nothing. This country is being run by slimy bankers like Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:22 | 3611764 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Like playing poker with a guy (B.S. Bernanke) that makes his own chips and can go "all in" every hand.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:23 | 3611770 seek
seek's picture

"It was probably a mistake to allow gold to rise so high."
-- Paul Volcker, ex Federal Reserve Chairman in looking back at the rise of gold from $35 to $850 during the 1970s, per "Paul Volcker: The Making of a Financial Legend" by Joseph B. Treaster

(Italics added)

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:16 | 3611920 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Yeah it's willful ignorance to say the CB's aren't manipulating gold. That our paid Shillery.

You can debate the wisdom of gold in the modern oligarch banker world, but the manipulation of gold prices? That should be a non-starter it's a freaking fact. Just read FED info from 1960's London Gold Pool to Volcker to Greenspan in the late 1990's.

Also, use your brain folks.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:34 | 3611991 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

Seriously.  Some folks are as lazy as Doug Casey.

All the evidence of gold interventions one could possibly want is right here:

 

http://gata.org/node/12601

 

One simply needs to click the link, and those on the page which opens, for the full monty.  But don't. Forget gold.  More for the rest of us.  Thanks.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:56 | 3612236 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Generally, I like Casey, but on this subject he's peculiarly obtuse.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 22:17 | 3612444 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

I he acknowledges the obvious, he will not be excepted by the boys on the other side of the field.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:32 | 3611775 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Government doesn't just need to control gold.

It needs to control/ban/regulate/tax ANY asset that could act as "money". Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, silver, marijuana, prescription drugs and so on.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:40 | 3611815 CPL
CPL's picture

Why would there need to be a government?

 

It's overhead to a situation resolves itself with free market trades like that.  I have two cans of beans, you have a one foot length of copper tube.  We see the deal is square.  We trade.  So do you want to saw 15% off the top of the tube and I'll spoon four scoops into a wrapper then we hand it over?

 

That's trade.  Where does a government fit into that situation?  It doesn't.  Its overhead and unnecessary.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:03 | 3611891 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Amen, brother

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:27 | 3611778 bullionbaron
bullionbaron's picture

It would make more sense for them to revalue Gold to many multiples of the current price and use the Central Bank holdings as the collaterall so desperately for the system to remain solvent...

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:42 | 3611827 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Ha! As if criminals had any desire, let alone ability to manage this system. They only know how to do one thing, destroy sustainability and use the ensuing "fog of war" to steal everything in order to further empower their control over society.

Solvency is simply not an option.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:51 | 3611848 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You might be right if there were any gold in Ft Knox.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:19 | 3611935 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Unless of course the goal here is to destroy national currencies and replace them witha  supranational currency which will be backed by gold (held in private or BIS/IMF hands) just long enough to restore confidence before starting the fiat scam alll over again.

It's been done, many, many times, just not on this scale.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:29 | 3611782 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

People who deny that gold is being manipulated are the same assholes who think your taxes actually RUN the government; they don't, instead your taxes go towards paying the INTEREST on the national debt.

Clueless fucking navel gazing dipshits and fucktards, all of them...

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:51 | 3611851 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Not true.  If the gold price was being suppressed, there would be shortages because it would be hoarded.  Gold is readily available if you are willing to pay for it.  Ergo, no price suppression is occurring.  If they are manipulating the market, they are doing it in both directions!

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:21 | 3611946 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

You means like the ones reported on multiple exchanges? Like calls to deliver being settled quietly for cash way above and beyond the spot price? Things like that? You know things like that, that are being reported?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:42 | 3612022 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Might be the dumbest comment you've ever made here.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:42 | 3612024 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

It is being hoarded, in backwardation, right?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:02 | 3612053 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

100:1 promises to deliver. They're using Credit Notes for false purchasing power. There is no intent to honestly deliver. There is no way they can deliver. No manipulation!!!? Sheesh!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 04:08 | 3612843 auric1234
auric1234's picture

I already have trouble buying it in single ounce quantities. I can't imagine how small giants manage to buy it by the tonnes.

Btw if gold price was falling because of market force dynamics, it would mean people are desperate to get rid of their gold. Stores would be full of surplus stocks, and they would sell at spot price (or close).

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 07:58 | 3612977 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

i can,t get a single coin in Argentina, yet i can get bullion.
There is no bullion shortage .

the shortage world wide has gone from one onz to 5 .. Big f deal.

disclosure. have made some changes latly. most of my wealth is now in real estate and paper silver.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:00 | 3613138 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

?

There are shortages at the quoted lower paper prices.

The higher prices show there's some availability but not READILY available. There's still waiting just less waiting as the refills are quicker at a higher price - showing you're wrong.

Showing that at higher prices gold is more available and at lower prices gold is NOT available. That's the OTHER guy's claim of SHORTAGE ... your anti-answer fails.

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 21:16 | 3617418 papaclop
papaclop's picture

Good luck finding gold or silver at the paper price. It costs more for real metal.

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 21:34 | 3617451 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Nonsense. Tulving has it for essentially (except for his buy-sell margin) the paper price. He pays all shipping and insurance.

Examples: OPM kilo bars Au: buy spot -$17/oz, sell spot +$11.95/oz

1,000 oz COMEX Ag bars: buy spot -$0.30/oz, sell spot +$0.59/oz

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:30 | 3611784 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Doesn't matter either way.

Situation normal, all fucked up beyond repair.

Buy the fucking dips, bitchez. 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:36 | 3611793 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

This is why I am all in on Gold. I looked across the table and I see a guy who is a physical wreck. I see no way out for him,other than fraud and manipulation . So i am convinced there is no smarter play. If I am wrong. I will be dead in 50 years and it will not matter.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:07 | 3612993 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

we might be dead tomorrow...
My best friend , my own age, is soon to leave us. Please please , i hope he doen,t read zh.
He had a perfectly balanced and healthy life, he studied his ass off while i partied, he worked his ass off to become a bankster, while i sat at home buying at the open smoking a joint. He got fired in 2009 , i lost 5 %.
in 2012-2013 i lose. ten percent , he gets terminal cancer at. age 43.

Point....i fucked everything up always, i am here and fine.
He does everything right and he gets up his ass.
He is showing courage i would never have. Our time is marked , early or late, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Make your bets gentlemen, does not matter if you are right or wrong , sleep well at night,
On a SHORT enough timeline the survival rate...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:59 | 3613132 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

word is cannabis (not just THC but the whole plant) has anti-cancer properties.

Who says you fucked up?

Mind you the consumption via eating would reduce any cancer-causing agents from smoking.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:36 | 3611799 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Or asked another way, if I were a large bank or institution & saw the writing on the wall wouldn't I want to short paper trade physical to ensure it gets into the right "fiduciary"/opportunistic hands?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:24 | 3611950 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Are you suggesting that failing Banking entities would loot shareholder and trustee value into the hands of management and associated cronies?

http://youtu.be/SjbPi00k_ME

Give me just one, just ONE example of that happening in the past few years. Also this example needs to be called MF something, something that sounds approriately global.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:15 | 3612137 noless
noless's picture

Mother fucking global.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:38 | 3611801 criticalreason
criticalreason's picture

yeah its manipulated; the fed wants the chinese to get as low a price as possible when they sells gold to the chinese.

 

i cant wait until i can go in macdonalds and buy a burger+fries with my gold coins....even if i do have to pay 50% markup  buying the coins and probably 50% mark down when i spend them.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:38 | 3612192 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

WHO has 400 tons of gold to sell at one time?

 

 

Who in their right mind would drop all of that gold on the market at the same time?

 

 

You are a fool, and an ignorant one at that!

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:04 | 3612272 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"i cant wait until i can go in macdonalds and buy a burger+fries with my gold coins"

Do you really think that your intellectual superiors don't hold both gold and cash? What are you, a fucking moron? LOL...

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:17 | 3612316 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

dude while you are waiting around for the world to end. you could make a new hat out of your phyzz stack to replace your foil one. f..tard

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:37 | 3612355 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Well, then, sell me yours! Oh, wait, I forgot--you don't have any...

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:37 | 3611805 Magnum
Magnum's picture

So China and Russia can accumulate at lower prices, The US Fed manipulates price down.  

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:42 | 3611824 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

Banker cocksuckers could give a fuck about Russia and China; they're hammering PM's so that THEY can have real money at lower prices when nobody accepts Bernanke Bux any more...

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:41 | 3611820 criticalreason
criticalreason's picture

i cant understand why the gold merchants always moaning the price of gold is too cheap.....if i can buy macdonalds 50% cheaper off then I am happier not grumpy all the time.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:44 | 3611833 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Maybe because you can't buy it at these prices?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:28 | 3611974 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Your diet might contribute to your reasoning in this thread. This is a serious comment do yourself a favor and do NOT skimp on your food bro! You are picking up pennies in front of a health bill steam roller and diminishing your quality of life and energy in the meantime! My food budget is non-negotiable. Everything else gets trimmed first.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:42 | 3611823 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Gold embarasses confetti-flinging retards, be they central bankers or governments.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.

~ Alan Greenspan (seriously)

http://constitution.org/mon/greenspan_gold.htm

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:46 | 3611838 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Watch the statists battling the realists at the 1414 level on SGX futures right now.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:09 | 3611901 bonin006
bonin006's picture

Looks like   Invasion Of The Body Snatchers  was based on at least one real event.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:43 | 3612027 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

Excellent, Commander.  Your humour subroutine has rather improved since "friendly jibes and insults."

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:52 | 3611845 brunoaa
brunoaa's picture

The Chinese and Russians are probably the manipulators, as they have the biggest incentive to manipulate the price of Gold. They are the winner of this game and their objective is to use Gold to bring the US to its knees. The Morgue is probably acting on their behalf. As Marx once said 'the capitalist will sell us communist the rope we will use to hang them. Right on!!

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:37 | 3612001 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

I dont' see why this needs to be an either or. Western CB's are manipulating prices down. Western Oligarchs are manipulating prices down. Russians manipulating down. Chinese manipulating down and so forth and so on. It's manipulators all the way down!

Unallocated accounts are piggybacked. Rehypothecated holdings of trustees, Tungsten, HK Exchange is a shell game, vaults of allocated can't be seen. On and on it goes. 

Every criminal minded power elite guy is using every scam, legitimate means (buying mining supply), dubious legal means (Cyprus and Greek gold) and outright force (Libya and to a lesser extent Iraq) to get every last drop they can into the hands of guys smart enough to see where this is all headed.

Because, all of this behavior will continue to happen until its gone, ALL GONE (at low prices). Then and only then when it is in someone extremely powerful's interest will it rise.

I think we might be closer to that point than ever before.

In the meantime accumulate and be greatful. Cost average and don't be a noob and buy when prices are spiking and most of all do your own DD and take responsibility for your actions. Don't come late to the party at 1800+ and cry a river when prices are manipulated downward for a year or two. This is a long game. Have a 10+ year time horizon and grow a pair.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 18:54 | 3611863 blindman
blindman's picture

Stop Making Sense - Talking Heads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B5MTvvT_10
.
as has been said "it has all been said." ?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 22:18 | 3612457 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Good call blindman. +1  From that genre and musical epoch I have many favorites and Talking Heads is certainly among them.

 

I always found this interesting as well. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijAYN9zVnwg

 

 As for the POG, although currently rising slightly, it will not matter in comparison to the fiat price in the end.  They can manipulate paper contracts all they want because I don't care.  What I am doing is not for me but for my children anyway.  Stack away.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:00 | 3611883 Hundred Dollar Bonus
Hundred Dollar Bonus's picture

This debate used to keep me up at night, now I don't care.  All I know, is in the spirit of this article, I'll bet my last pre-1983 penny that the Comex Price is not based on supply and demand.  I recall learning about the "observer effect" in physics and I would like to introduce the "Manipulator Effect" whereby the act of manipulation changes the non-manipulated price as well as the manipulated price.  Throw in the fact that any medium of exchange to trade for the manipulated good is also manipulated and you have the "Manipilator2 Effect".  BEEP............BEEP.............BEEP, oh excuse me, that's the backup alarm on my El Camino.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:10 | 3612297 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

+1 for the username LOL.  However, some 1982 pennies were zinc and for as thrifty as we are it pays to know the difference.

 

http://coins.about.com/od/uscoins/f/copper_to_zinc.htm

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 23:28 | 3612635 Hundred Dollar Bonus
Hundred Dollar Bonus's picture

Whoops, thanks for pointing that out!

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:17 | 3611928 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I agree with the article however we must remember the power of the fiat machine when it comes to calling in debts and the desperation of small gold holders when facing a brick wall. Both these things can cause short term turbulence to the fiat price of gold as people liquidate to meet the demands of the system.

To wit the thousands of gold shops that sprouted all over Europe and which probably went a long way to meeting some of the demand for gold.

Remember however, that with the exception of certain periods, gold is not an investment. It is primarily one of the most reliable and mobile insurance policies for wealth protection.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:17 | 3611930 CDNX fan
CDNX fan's picture

I am a Canuck educated in Saint Louis - question - am I to believe that the nation that invented free markets is incapable of removing what the citizens perceive as un-American activity? In the 60's and 70's while in your country, youth mobilzed and essentially changed foreign policy. So now that the Constitution is being assaulted, why are you not marching with pitchforks and torches? We have more tarsands oil than Saudi Arabia so you don't need the military or Israel anymore so why not throw the bums out?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:24 | 3611955 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Because the same oligarchs that control us at EVERY level control YOUR country and appparently YOU are not even aware of it......which makes YOU the sucker at the poker table......

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:24 | 3611956 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I am not sure, but I think the answer to your question may lie in comparing the youth of that period and the youth of today.

The system and the way it has crumbled has in my opinion  sapped a great portion of the youth of any determination among other things.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:23 | 3611948 Bullionaire
Bullionaire's picture

Hey Tylers,

 

Can we get a link to the original?  There seems to be a redundancy error in column 2 RE: AP ReporterGate.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:24 | 3611957 tuttisaluti
tuttisaluti's picture

I'm wondering when that foreign countrys get it, that the US buys theyre assets and products with toiletpaper.They must laughing their ass of in the US gov. about the idiots abroad.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:31 | 3611972 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Lets face it the FED does not like Gold because it takes Money out of the system.

People buy it and sit on it forever.  This does not create any productivity in the market place.  It becomes a dead asset.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:41 | 3612021 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

I'm sure that's why they don't like it.

Not because it's the antidote to interest bearing debt fiat currency or anything.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:27 | 3614715 auric1234
auric1234's picture

This doesn't make any sense. The Fed thinks dollars are money, and gold is worthless barbarous relic (just sits there).

If you think in these terms, what we're doing is just to put the dollars back in circulation, and keep the barbarous relic for ourselves which wasn't doing any good. What's wrong with that?

Now what the REAL reasons are:

  • If you hold gold instead of fiat paper, they can't steal from you by printing more of them. This is BAD. Then they will have less people to steal real wealth from (remember: only the peasants produce wealth. TPTB psychopaths haven't produced anything of value in their whole lifes).
  • When you put the paper back in circulation (in exchange for gold), some of it goes to debt serfs who sold their scrap gold in an act of desperation. They will probably use this fiat to redeem part of their debts. This must not happen! Helping the poor liberate themselves is BAD. You can give them peanuts if you like, but you can't give them hope. You must NOT help them thrive and prosper.
Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:29 | 3611975 JawsMusic
JawsMusic's picture

Saw this on Turds site...

 

 

When the FED holds 100% of the outstanding t-bill debt....

Why can't they just wave their magic wand and say poof its gone.

What is the downside?

Why do they have to sell it?

How is saying "poof its gone" ANY different than them just holding it and refunding the interest to the treasury?

Is there ANY practical difference in $  flows, or anything else for ANY market participant?

Its so blindingly obvious that I can't see any other end game?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:32 | 3611985 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Didn't you hear Jim Rickards?  It's the Chinese that are the manipulators.  At least they were pre-crimed into manipulation via that swaps vote followed by HKMex collapse and now they want to see Gensler's emails.  I thought privacy was still a social norm... at least for regulators. I don't think Bruce Lindsey had personal email.  He didn't even have a desk in the Clinton White House... just a raincoat and plenty of walks in the park.     

http://tradewithdave.com/?p=16743

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:48 | 3612037 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

just singin in the rain (before the rush)

doo-de-doo-doo (at least better than JGBs, hai?)

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:32 | 3611987 auntiesocial
auntiesocial's picture

dollars in circulation 2005

2005 $760,000,000,000 $2,553.00 

dollars in circulation 2013

2013-05-22: 1,185.803 Billions of Dollars 

TO QUOTE FOX NEWS:

YOU DECIDE! 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:43 | 3612032 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Can you repost...I'm having trouble understanding what you are saying here.

I'm pretty sure you are talking about increased money supply, but I can't tell because your post is a bit wonky.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:18 | 3612317 auntiesocial
auntiesocial's picture

hmmm, how to summarize? is it good that the money supply has increased by a half million dollars in the last eight years? pros? cons? because if the only people / corporations that are benefitting do little or nothing to help main street or our true economic growth and not just foaming the runway for the banks and letting the sacred ones trade money at zero interest back and forth while mom and dad suffer, what the hell kind of a mother freatking Keysenian horsehit recovery is that? or am I longwinded? 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:40 | 3613287 Hundred Dollar Bonus
Hundred Dollar Bonus's picture

When you are playing in a fantasy land of fractional reserve banking, who knows what is good and what is bad?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 19:51 | 3612052 Herdee
Herdee's picture

The sick part of all this is that both Canada and the United States now have to import gold in order to keep up with demand.Mint demand is at record levels,climbing and won't stop.I know Canada has next to no gold left but it's pretty clear that if Germany can't get their gold then the FED has sold out and still refuses to be audited by the American people.What's there to hide?Just storing biological weapons now?So who's selling the gold to the U.S., China?Very sick.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:06 | 3612104 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

"The big question that many investors want to know is what is going on with the gold price?"

 The big answer is "who gives a fuck" what "investors" want to know. Gold is not an investment it is money.

And the Fed is not the only ones manipulating the price of gold,have a peek and see what the USA Treasury  can do and does with the "Exchange Stabilization Fund" (ESF).

And the USA.Gov allows the so called "Fed" to operate its ponzi on the USA soil and it's citizens.

So......

Who is really manipulating what.?????

Your guess...?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:11 | 3612124 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Well, it really doesn't matter if you are stacking PM long term now does it?  Of more concern to me is the fact that I am now having ads for durable goods(KitchenAid dishwasher) appearing on the left banner margin here.  Anyone else have a Kitchen Aid dishwasher ad appear or am I the only one who hasn't looked up pron on Windows 8 yet?(that's what the old comp is for anyway)

 

BTW, did anyone post a link to the five question FINRA financial quiz yet?  Sorry if I missed it but this is my busy time of year and I can only devote three or four hours a day reading ZH.;-)  I am pretty sure that you will all ace it but what is alarming are the overall results.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:22 | 3613037 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

SRSLY?

firefox, adblock, noscript : no banners. None.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:13 | 3612128 anyways
anyways's picture

Well, when i get bored by the goldbug, it could really be the right time to buy ;-) but properly not, since ALL assets are inflated by bernak & co.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:19 | 3612147 Nue
Nue's picture

Since Ben the Magic Banker said Gold is not money and Central Banks accumulate Gold out of "Tradition" Rand Paul needs introduce a Bill to force the Fed to sell all its gold on the open market. Think how much money we could save by not having to guard all that gold. Of course if Ben thinks it's a bad idea he could go before Congress and testify why it is so. ^_^

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:52 | 3612833 auric1234
auric1234's picture

You need a Bill for that? They've already done it!

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:50 | 3612219 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

When steering people into their master plan the most important thing the Fed must do is make sure there is no apparent alternative.

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 20:53 | 3612233 Vooter
Vooter's picture

I couldn't care less if subhuman vermin like Ben Bernanke are manipulating the gold price. The key is a) to maintain the pressure on the physical supply, and b) to continue to poison the public well that people like Bernanke drink from. There are MILLIONS of very angry people out there, and keeping the hornet's nest stirred can be accomplished with continued quiet determination and pressure from concerned and patriotic Americans everywhere. People like Ben Bernanke are THE ENEMY, and people who don't enjoy having an enemy in their midst should act accordingly...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:51 | 3612831 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Bernanke gives us cheap gold. Why wouldn't you care?

THANK YOU BERNANK

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:00 | 3612253 Rimon
Rimon's picture

I don't think the Fed cares one way or another.. Gold is a religion.. You either have faith in its magical attributes or you don't.. Most posters here clearly are under the spell and if gold doesn't go up it must always be the fault of the heretics.. My guess is that if emerging markets continue to implode - gold might follow

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:13 | 3613012 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

prove to me the fed doesn't care.

I'll prove to you it DOES.

The Fed currently holds a very large collection of certificates saying they own claims to gold at 42 USD per ounce.

If they don't care about gold then they and all central banks will hold NONE.

Instead they and all central banks are seeking as much gold as possible and the Fed will NOT give up those special legal tickets on gold. Those special tickets say they get 1 troy ounce of gold, 31.10347 grams, for 42 USD and they can print USD all day every day legally forever while barring anyone else from doing so.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 21:00 | 3612255 Rimon
Rimon's picture

I don't think the Fed cares one way or another.. Gold is a religion.. You either have faith in its magical attributes or you don't.. Most posters here clearly are under the spell and if gold doesn't go up it must always be the fault of the heretics.. My guess is that if emerging markets continue to implode - gold might follow

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 22:47 | 3612524 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Rimon, of two weeks fame, I would be careful of making "Gold is a religion" sorts of statements on a gold thread that appears on ZH.  You appear to be trolling for a fight and that is what you will get should you pursue the matter.  I have 14 years of experience in the PM markets and still only have marginal respect here.  What are you bringing to the table that we have not heard before exactly one thousand, nine hundred and thirteen times already from Nadler types?  Inquiring minds would like to know why you care about what we do with our digitz to preserve purchasing power?

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 22:48 | 3612541 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Rimon is a piece of shit troll. Track his comments and you will see.

 

FUCK YOU RIMON!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 00:11 | 3612706 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

You fool Rimon , you don't understand that the REAL price of Gold is $3500 . The Government is making you see $1400  they obviously found your Room 101 you brainwashed fool.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 00:23 | 3612728 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Ok then.  Good evening all.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:50 | 3612830 auric1234
auric1234's picture

The fundamental price of gold in USD is the same as the current price in Zimbabwe dollars.

I see you're confused now, but don't worry. When that "$1400" ticker you're watching gets to "$0" and then DISAPPEARS, you'll understand you were looking at the wrong place.

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 04:03 | 3612842 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

rimon:

Don't let the GoldTards intimidate you. Somebody has to say, "The Emperor is BUTT NEKKID!!! I can see his royal wee-wee!!!"

The Turks have a saying, "The man who tells the truth will be run from nine villages." I think ZH is maybe the 10th village so you should be safe.

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:10 | 3613006 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You squeek nonsense.

It's the GOLD side people saying YOUR fiat emperor is naked.

Printed money has no value. It has force, guns, prison, corrupt politicians and liars who print it and jail anyone else trying to do the same - which is utter hypocricy and counterfeiting.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 10:25 | 3613472 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Continuing to exhibit his pathological attention seeking (perhaps Histrionic Personality Disorder?), Squiggy has now resorted to talking with one of his sock puppets.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:09 | 3613003 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, paper is a religion.

You either have full faith in the credit of printed paper with pictures of old politicians on it...

or you DON'T.

 

Thu, 05/30/2013 - 23:38 | 3612653 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

If it's true that Fort Knox holds 8k tonnes of Gold how come the chinese were asked to install the alarm system? Isn't that a secooority whisk? If the usa gov. are accusing the chinese of hacking into our sensitive military defence systems then how can we trust them with our gold? What if they pass on the 4 digit secret code to the north koreans? Where would that leave us?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 02:32 | 3612804 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

OMG!!! I finally figured out the whole Gold thingy!!!  It was just puzzling the crap out of me why people paid all that money for some stupid shiny metal and then out of nowhere, KERBLAM!!! It hit me!!! Sooo, I wrote a very special Irish Poem:

Circle Jerks
A Three Stanza Irish Poem by
Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Poor Melvin, a Gold Bug from Philly,
Complained that his critics were silly!
"Those Chinese and Thais,
And New Delhi guys
Will always want GOLD!", he yelled shrilly!

Wang Chung, a Gold Merchant in Shanghai,
Purchased all the Gold that he could buy.
"Some American twit
Will buy all this shit.
Always do, but damned if I know why???"

It's a Farce in this Absurd Theater,
As they pass the hot golden potater
It's just yen, and then yang,
And tain't no big thang. . .
Just two Fools seeing which one is Greater

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 02:51 | 3612807 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

squeek u rule

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:12 | 3612812 akak
akak's picture

yawn

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:15 | 3612813 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Squeeky, you'd be more believable if you'd also state which asset class you think is better - for the purpose of saving

of course I'd have to ask you first if you realize the difference between speculating and saving

anyway, "As they pass the hot golden potater"? do you realize that some 95% of this planet's physical gold is passed on once every generation... or even less often? And that it's often just bequeathed instead of sold/bought?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 03:55 | 3612835 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

Ghord:

Hmmm, then that would mean that all the Gold price ups and downs is based on 5% of the available Gold, or less. Sooo, like if just 10% of it was to "come forth by day" (without Death) - then prices would slide even further. As far as what asset class is better, I think the real question is "what asset class is less likely to suffer >20% price drops in a few months?" There are many to choose from. I think that sometimes you are better off to just sit there with cash in a savings account. Or some good bonds. Or higher quality type stocks. Or productive real estate with some respectable equity cushion.  Sometimes, less is more.

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 06:20 | 3612881 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you are correct, in theory if much less than 10% would "come forth" the price would temporarily drop down, like a stone. but that's the point, it doesn't

economist call this - if I remember this correctly - price sensitivity

and 95% of this privately held physical gold is in the hands of people who - ding! ding! - could not care less what the current price is. there is a name for that: strong hands

I note that you still don't mention any other asset class - you just note that recently it had a big drop. so what? strong hands don't care, and strong hands typically already have productive real estate, sensible stock portfolios, sometimes an company (or a couple of them) they own and manage, etc. etc. And because they already "have it all", they usually accumulate gold on the side. you know, "just in case". for them, it's a sensible precaution. a hedge

up to the point that they are relieved if they make "unrealized losses" on their gold - in the same way as they don't mind paying insurance fees and never have an accident

you see, they do follow your "less is more" principle. and so they don't invest only... they also... save

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 06:42 | 3612892 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

Ghord: Well, if your hand is STRONG, then I suggest you just load up on gold at whatever price. Then, when you croak your heirs will get their hands on your gold. And if it is going at $600 an ounce, and you paid an average price of $1,200 dollars an ounce for it, the LOSS will be of no consequence to you as you will be either playing a harp, or dodging fireballs, whichever is applicable. For free. As an adult, you are entitled to have a security blanket if you need one. Personally, I prefer the soft cottony kind of blankie, which only costs <$50 to slobber and drool on, but to each his own.

In the meantime, I suggest in the interest of HONESTY, that you be forthcoming and admit gold is very iffy as a savings vehicle, and dubious even as a hedge,  what with its tendency to drop like a stone when economic events actually require its large scale use. Some people here and there may find it somewhat distressing that the thing they just paid $1,400 an ounce for, fetches far less than that amount when redeemed. Or you could do a Superman Comic-ish kinda thing of thing and promote losing purchasing power as a good thing, and to be desired if one lived on the Bizarro Planet. Maybe "You Buy Gold! Me like lose lots of money! You will too!"

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 07:13 | 3612909 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

am I talking about myself? I'm talking in general about the owners of the majority of gold, part of an analysis of the market. one where by the way Indian bridal customs, Chinese family and village-clans structures and euro-asian customs in general are way more important than the price fluctuations in 2013

you request honesty? of course is anybody that bought gold only at the $1'200 levels miffed. may I ask if they were speculating or saving? because saving is usually done over the arch of 20, 30 years

and there's the clinch: do you understand what the word saving means? Webster's online dictionary says

-----------

Definition of SAVING

: preservation from danger or destruction : deliverance

: the act or an instance of economizing

3 a plural : money put by

   b : the excess of income over consumption expenditures —often used in plural

   c : a usually specified lower cost —often used in plural <a savings of 50 percent

--------

In a way, you first have an individual that feels the need to save. And then this individual starts to save, i.e. starts to put by excess income over consumption

Now be honest yourself: are you more a consumer (that speculates on the side) or are you a saver, in this particular point of your life?

meanwhile those strong hands I'm talking about don't sell gold - except as a very last resort. so yes, usually when times are so bad for them that it was a bad investment to start with. but that's the point: it means that all the other investments they had have gone down the drain

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:23 | 3613029 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

Ghord:

Well, you convinced me! I think I may go buy something that is likely to go down in price and comfort myself by saying that I am SAVING money. Then, if the SHTF, I can sell whatever I buy for 25 or 50 cents on the dollar. Because thats better than nothing. Hmmm, what to SAVE with. . . maybe a new car OR a new guitar! OH, its a GUITAR!  I want to get one of those white ones like K T Tunstall is playing with Keren when they do My Sharona on youtube. I already have a black one that is kinda like Keren's. Then, maybe next month I can SAVE some more money and get an orange one like I saw a guy playing that had a Bigsby thingy on it.

OH, thank you sooo much for teaching me about SAVING money!

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 09:48 | 3613323 swissbene
swissbene's picture

your sarcasm sucks [not funny and minimally expressive], and your posts ['reports'] are too long.

here is an attempt to introduce some logic for the benefit of readers unamused by your puerile straw man vehicle of unfounded condescension. [though i am SURE that VAST majority are simply ENTHRALLED with your incoherent pop culture references and capitalization scheme].

the basis of your argument is that gold is 'likely' to decline in price [assume you mean USD, or possibly JPY, or all currencies? do clarify].

that is a powerful basis except that you provide no support -- so it is worth nothing.

if you have an advantage in predicting the price movement of gold then you can make a very large profit quickly from the participants who lack your clairvoyance [and then you can plow that into whatever consumer garbage your heart desires].

as a thought experiment: lets suppose your understanding of future gold price is real and not a carelessly constructed fiction.  what is a legitimate strategy/vehicle for saving?  feel free to skip the sarc/mocking/caps/pop references and go straight to substance as your superior intellect was firmly established in prior reporting.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:08 | 3612996 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

saying gold will be 600 an ounce is like saying gasoline will cost 4 dimes, any kind of dimes, for a gallon.

It's nonsense.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:29 | 3613053 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Squeek, why the fuck do you care what we choose to spend our money on?  You fucking gold trolls are all the same on every blog in the world; a bunch of self righteous pricks who can't help from peddling their inane admonitions on anyone who buys and holds physical gold.  Your ilk NEVER state why you care so much about our money.  Is it because you think our money belongs to you?  Fuck off.

  "Or you could do a Superman Comic-ish kinda thing of thing and promote losing purchasing power as a good thing"

What?  You don't quite understand economics do you?  Why don't you go 3X lever yourself on some inverse ETF and shut your fucking cunthole.  Maybe you will get lucky.

Manipuflation, Physical Stacker

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 06:43 | 3612893 CHX
CHX's picture

Right. And may I add, that the physical gold market is quite small (~3000-4000 metric tonnes) relative to the global gold inventory of about 170 000 metric tonnes. Also, current price discovery is made mainly in the paper gold markets, which are leveraged by a factor of about 100x (about 100 times worth of paper gold is bought or sold than there is Crimex physical inventory). So the 400 metric tonnes dumped in the latest smack-down were not, repeat NOT, physical, it was paper gold, probably highly leveraged, and thus a paper trade. but "someone" is gobbling up all the unwanted, hated, useless, out-of-fashion, barbourous relict, at these discounted prices. "someone" is probably just very very stupid then, right? 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 08:07 | 3612991 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, if the amount of gold traded moved up to 10% the price would hit 20 THOUSAND per ounce.

The reason it isn't trading is because prices are too low. No one has any incentive to move that money because it's secure. The fiatbux are so insecure and so lacking in value the 95% of untraded gold is best left outside the dangerous fiatbux system.

squeekytroll, you fail.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 05:25 | 3612859 CHX
CHX's picture

The FED has no gold.

http://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/federal-reserve-admits-we-have-n...

so me thinks several parties have currently interest in gold low: plunge protection team / treasury, China/Russia and the bullion banks (the market makers) manipulating the gold price (spot), all for different reasons. allow no alternative currency (kill the measuring stick; gold is the canary), low price = better to accumulate lots, arbitrage and cash cow when price goes up or down.

as has been pointed out elsewhere, goldprice not = price of gold. when the physical metal gets really, really scarce (we're not there yet, but soon; eg. gld/slv inventory gone) then margins will raise to 100%, futures market becomes futile, and only then true price discovery will happen through a cash market (no more paper games). that's the emancipation of gold from paper, the Sinclair scenario in a nutshell.

Who'll have ounces (yellow and shiney) or owns surviors after this gold producer blood bath, will be doing well THEN. until then, happy stacking or trading (and good luck in the latter).

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