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Britain To Arm Syrian Rebels; Russia Retaliates By Shipping 10 MiGs To Assad

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Following Russia's first shipment of S-300 Rockets and the CNN-reported deaths of American and British citizens, it seems the situation in Syria is escalating 'behind-the-scenes' with little attention being paid in general. Whether it is the deaths or not, but according to the FT, the 'war-by-proxy' is growing in numbers as the UK is poised to ship arms to some rebel factions in Syria as soon as this summer. "The precise timing has not yet been finalized and no decision has yet been taken. But we are likely to be ... shipping arms to the rebels by August," one official noted, adding that "the rebels need ammunition, and a lot of it, just to keep fighting." The US had secretly undertaken significant lobbying efforts of EU member states to get the EU arms embargo amended and this week Britain and France forced through that deal opening the door for the supply of weapons. Adding to the angst, Russia's MiG aircraft makers said on Friday that it planned to sign a new agreement to ship at least 10 fighter jets to Syria.

 

Via The FT,

Britain and France this week forced through an amendment to an EU arms embargo that opened the door for the supply of weapons to opposition forces.

 

...

 

Britain’s Foreign Office insists that no final decision on whether to arm the rebels has yet been made. But a senior UK diplomat told the Financial Times that Britain could be in a position to arm the rebels this summer if, as many expect, the planned peace conference in Geneva fails to make headway.

 

“The precise timing has not yet been finalised and no decision has yet been taken. But we are likely to be ... shipping arms to the rebels by August,” the official said. “What I expect is that over the next two or three months western powers will move low-grade arms supplies in bulk to the rebels. The rebels need ammunition, and a lot of it, just to keep fighting.”

 

...

 

Syrian rebel sources are also saying they are expecting the first new arms supplies to come from Britain as early as this summer.

 

...

 

Russia’s MiG aircraft maker said on Friday that it planned to sign a new agreement to ship at least 10 fighter jets to Syria, a move that comes amid international criticism of earlier Russian weapons deals with the Assad regime,

 

...

 

Russia has said it is only providing Assad with weapons intended to protect Syria from a foreign invasion, such as air defence missile systems.

 

...

 

Syria now is Russia’s last remaining ally in the Middle East and hosts the only naval base Moscow has outside the former Soviet Union.

 

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Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:59 | 3614249 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Popcorn's up!  Who wants some?  Syria is going to end up a glassy plain before this is over.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:16 | 3614356 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

What a humongous farce.

It's all about the Mil Ind complex.

And the bankster simplex.

And the energy conondrum, which "owns" us all.

And of course these times, a change of the ages, the end of the maritime dominant world.... it's all about Air power in the age of aquarius, strange as that may sound at first glance, if you'll pardon the hashed, brown, meta-phor.

Arms and the Man.

ori

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:22 | 3614394 ACP
ACP's picture

I thought it was illegal to give aid & comfort to al qaeda, er the "freedom fighters" in Syria?

Oh yeah, it's the government. Do as I say not as I do.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:46 | 3614540 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

What's a sick bird have to do with any of this?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:25 | 3614694 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Military Analyst review

May 24, 2013

The strategic nuclear forces is in a state of irreversible degradation. Dying nuclear industry. The collapse of the Strategic Air Command. Rusty nuclear strategic missile submarines.  Antediluvian strategic ballistic missiles.  We all know the country in question. Of course - this is the United States.

 

Although the basic information on the US nuclear arsenal is strictly secret, some key elements are already widely known. Hold to your chair-from what you'll see it will be a grand revelation to many.

 

When evaluating the State of US strategic nuclear forces (SNF) over the past 20 years, the conclusion can be drawn about their ultimate and deepest degradation, which since 2005 became irreversible and uncontrollable. The uncontrollable means that this process cannot be any longer controlled by the military & political leadership of the United States and cannot be stopped.


Nuclear Warheads
 

Now the facts:

·         The last US nuclear warhead was built ?? in 1991. And it is not everything. Even more amazing is the fact  that the last real nuclear test explosion was conducted back in 1992. And this despite the fact that the average age of US nuclear warheads is more than 30 year old and many of them were built and deployed before the Reagan presidency. Where is the confidence that these warheads are still capable of exploding? Or do you think that these systems are so stable that 30 years is a no time for them? So you are very wrong. Thermonuclear device is an extremely complex device and subjects to a rapidly degradation.  Due to the decay of fissile materials, the active nuclear material is reduced. Even worse - the radiation emitted during this time lead to degradation of other system components from fuses to electronics. 

·         U.S. scientists specializing in nuclear weapons grow old and retire at an alarming rate. Already by 2008, more than half of the nuclear scientists in national nuclear laboratories in the United States were older than 50 years, and among scientists under fifty, very few have the know-how. And where will this know-how will come from if the nukes have not been built for more than 20 years  and no new were designed even a longer time?  According to the former Secretary of Defense Gates, in a few years, approximately three quarters U.S. nuclear scientists would reach the retirement age and retire. But it is already such a mess and disgrace going in the U.S. National laboratories that the government was forced to remove out all fissile materials from the Los Alamos National Laboratory since these materials were simply stolen and sold to God knows who.

·         Components of U.S. nuclear warheads are aging even more rapidly than the scientists. The United States no longer have the technological capabilities and the ability to produce some of the key elements for warheads. So much so, that the older warheads are used as spare parts for keeping others in working condition. 

 

DELIVERY SYSTEMS

U.S. nuclear weapons delivery vehicles are also in decline. 

 

 Strategic Air Force

 It was assuming that by 2000, there would be 230 modern strategic bombers (130 - B-2 and 100-1B).

By 2011, the U.S. managed to keep only 65 of which 44 are ancient B-52, who were scheduled to retire back in 1996! 

·         But B-52 are the backbone of the today U.S. Strategic Air Command. B-52 bombers are the only one in the U.S. Strategic Air Force capable of carrying and launching long-range cruise missiles with nuclear warheads. But these planes are very old. Last B-52H serial number 61-0040 came from the assembly line in October 26, 1962 - almost 50 years ago.  There are no B-52 spare engines or spare parts. To maintain these aircrafts in flying condition , in some instances, technicians had to disassemble parts of the written off bombers. There was even a project of remaking the B-52 for engines and avionics using components of the civilian Boeing 747  but the project did not work out. B-52 has yet to fulfill its task. Americans suggest to use them until 2040. But the numbers are going down.

·          Moreover, the U.S. has 19 strategic bombers B-2 and B-67 intercontinental B-1B. The funny part is that there is a big problem using them against a capable enemy. These supersonic B-1B bombers were designed using a fatal miscalculation. These bombers can carry only free-falling bombs and short-range missiles. Therefore, the latest advances of air defenses have made ??the B-1B meaningless target even before the deployment. The production was discontinued, and the already built are rusting. 

·         Then the U.S. had hoped for a stealth bomber B-2. But the opportunities to carry long-range missiles were not designed in. It was calculated that it would overcome the enemies  air defense using  their "invisibility". However, the price of B-2 (by $ 2.1 billion apiece) was unaffordable even for the U.S.  And most importantly,  after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the United States got from the former GDR the latest MiG-29 with N-019 radar.  During their tests, with great horror Americans discovered that these radars can perfectly see the "invisible» B-2 even against even the Earth background . This suggests that a more modern radars on Russian MiG-31 and Su-27 are also capable of finding such target at even much greater distances. In other words, the B-2 invisibility does not exist, and it was not clear why to pay $ 2 billion for such quite vulnerable bombers. Consequently, their production was stopped.  So, B-2 and B-1B cannot carry long-range nuclear cruise missiles. And using tactical missiles or free-fall bombs (including nuclear), these fantastically expensive aircrafts must be inside the area of enemy air defenses. Their effectiveness is inversely proportional to the level of enemy air defenses. The utilization of these aircrafts against Libya and Afghanistan are just fine. But if one tries to attack Russia or China, they will be instantly converted into a fabulously expensive metal scrap. 

·         Overall, over the past 20 years, the U.S. fleet of strategic bombers has dropped more than 80%, indicating a complete decomposition of the components of U.S. strategic nuclear forces. And there is no prospect of its recovery. Replacements of this terribly outdated  B-52 are not expected any time soon. Now, there are discussions about having a new perspective bomber.

·         Comparing with the United States, Russia situation is just perfect. In addition to the Tu-160, they have a Tu-95MS ("Bear"), the main components of their strategic air force. The "Bears" is just a little younger than the B-52, but recent modification Tu-95MS released in the early 90's is still quite young compare to B-52. And most importantly, Russian aircrafts are equipped with long-range nuclear-capable Kh-55 and Kh-55SM missiles capable of attacking from distances up to 1,500 miles, therefore, without entering in a range of enemy air defenses. 

 

Intercontinental ballistic missiles

·         The United States have only one type of land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM). This is the "Minuteman-3", the item from the Vietnam Era. They are morally and technically outdated.

·         "Peacekeeper", the US attempt to create a response to the Soviet "Satan" type heavy ICBM, has failed miserably.  This strategic missile system, whose creation, according to various estimates, consumed up to a trillion dollars (including the costs of production and deployment for combat duty of 50 ICBM), lasted less than 20 years and was removed from combat duty without any replacement!

·         Also, the attempts to create a railroad version of the "Peacekeeper" missile (similar to Russian "Stiletto") ended in a complete failure as well as the widely publicized campaign to build 500 light ICBMs such as "Midgetmen" - an analog of our "Polaris." There have been only two test launches, one of which was a completely failure - the rocket was destroyed by the flight control center after it went out of control, the second was only partially successful. After that, all the further activities on this project were completely frozen. 

·         The bottom line is that the Strategic Nuclear Forces (SNF) has in service 450 completely outdated ICBMs without decoys. And given the recent failure of the test launches of "Minuteman", it can be concluded that the U.S. ICBM probably just about gone. The decision to cancel scheduled for 2012 modernization of the "Minuteman" indicates that, apparently, there is nothing to upgrade, the system is simply not combat ready. 

·         It is not an accident that there are discussions about the need for early development of a fundamentally new next-generation ICBM and convulsive attempts to create missile defense systems which will hopefully protect the USA from a nuclear missile attack at a time when America itself is no longer capable of making a preemptive strike, not to mention of firing missiles after an enemy nuclear attack.

 

Nuclear ballistic missiles submarines 

By 2000, the United States planned to have 480 submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) placed on 20 nuclear submarines (SSBN). But for now, the U.S. Navy has only 14 SSBNs with 336 SLBMs. It is the most efficient part of the U.S. nuclear triad.  However, the "Ohio" class nuclear submarines were designed and built during the Vietnam War. A little later Trident-II D-5 missiles were installed on these submarines - but even they are more than a quarter century old.  Readiness of SLBM "Trident»-II, at this time, too, is highly questionable due to the fact that, as a solid-fuel missile, they have the same weaknesses as the "Minutemen." 

 

Where does the giant U.S. defense budget go? This is a good  question!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:29 | 3614731 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

Wow. An expert in copy, paste and format. Thanks for all that. [/sarcasm]

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:14 | 3615200 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

 

 

It sure would be a shame to see all those classic weapons go to waste.

I hope someone finds a useful purpose for them soon.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 20:24 | 3615721 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Using them would be much cost effective than having to decomission and store them at a nuclear waste disposal site for an indefinite ammount of time.

 

Lots of broken windows to restore the economy.

You know, after the banker elite come out of their bunkers in a century or so.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:35 | 3614756 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Hotels in Hawaii and casinos in Las Vegas?

Running a junkyard is a stressful business.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:46 | 3614826 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Summary of the long post:

The only way for the US to win is not to play.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:13 | 3614966 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

leave it to the English to start something anyways...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:47 | 3615116 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The "Windsors" are CheesePope lackeys... In fact ~ That's how they got to be the "Windsors" in the first place...

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 17:01 | 3618739 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Now I know why the Israelies bought several U-Boats in Germany last year. The Us was not in a position to deliver such ships. So Germany had to do it. These ships are capable to carry rockets with nuclear war heads. This are relative small boats with state of the art stealth technology.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:35 | 3619974 esum
esum's picture

why would it be "illegal" to (aid and abet) provide cash, weapons, advisors and training to al queda (our sworn enemy) in syria? we are arming the sinaloa drug cartel, we did the same with Feb 17 brigade/ansar al sharia and al queda affiliates who controlled Benghazi before we pulled the rug out from under Khadaffy, we are arming and paying the muslim brotherhood (remember zawahiri/alqueda#2).... yes of course it is TREASON.... when will congress take action? ... Obama is one of them and he has said it himself. the problem is the media doesn't report facts and the "ill informed" masses are getting tons of free shit and dont care. 

Oh i forgot, obama told us he reset the clock and we are now in the pre 9/11 world again... the war on terror is over and al queda has been devastated (better tell them).. So in obamaworld he has moved on not only back to pre 9/11 but is toying with the same snake that bit us on 9/11. Allegedly using hem to advance our interests.. Anyone who believes this will ahve a happy ending is as delusional as the members of the current regime.,,,, or has a secret agenda. 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:28 | 3614426 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I'm gonna root for the Syrian 'home team' on this one, though I can't say I ever liked 'em much.  Any bets on who makes the Finals?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:36 | 3614474 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I've always rooted for the underdog

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:46 | 3614537 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Otherwise known as the right side, indeed. Without NATO air support I can't see how these mongoloid irregulars can end up winning. I pray so anyways. IT is clear things aren't going well because the desperation of the West is going up by orders of magnitude and they are all fucking lies.

 

 

Rebels caught with sarin gas in turkey

http://rt.com/news/sarin-gas-turkey-al-nusra-021/

Syrian Army detains ass loads of foreign military officers ( trained military).

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/22/syrian-army-detains-saudi-qatari-...

 

Disgusting.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:51 | 3615129 tango
tango's picture

MOngologid irregulars?   Why do we always have to resort to such lunacy when we can't make our point intellectually?  For the record, there is zero difference genetically between pro and anti Assad folks.  Until recently, most ZHers considered Assad the latest of a minority religious family dynasty who ruled by force with the secret police. But now that the 90% Sunni have taken arms he's suddenly a hero to the ZH  crowd.  And suddenly they're concerned with Al Qaeda after years of dismissing them? What I'd like is some consistency and less mob psychology.   I swear, if Tyler opined that what we needed was a good police state for a couple of years, you'd get instant calls of unqualified agreement.  

Syria is a hard choice.  Assad is a thug but he did keep the lid on things while enriching his buddies.  It's why Turkey and Israel were so eager for him to remain in power. Now we're going to get this maelstorm of Islamists, fundamentalists and a couple of secularists.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:16 | 3615206 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

MOngologid? You some kind of mongoloid or something? :)

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:49 | 3615294 ACP
ACP's picture

A Missouri Mongoloid maybe?

@tango Some people, more than you think, have always had the same stance here. I never supported "Arab Spring" because I knew the Islamists would take power and persecute the minority (which they are doing NOW), and I don't support this. If Donald Dumsfeld made one intelligent comment in his life, it is, "There are known unknowns and there are unknown unknowns."

Syria with Asshat in power is a known unknown. Syria with al qaeda in power is an unknown unknown.

Probably the only country where it possible where a revolution would create something positive is Iran, where most of the people there don't like the jokers in power. There are people there who remember what it was like in the 70s, when women were allowed to wear miniskirts and bikinis without being tried in Islamic court and subsequently beaten.

 

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 18:19 | 3615372 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

 Assad is a thug but he did keep the lid on things while enriching his buddies.

And this is different from whom?  Ohh yeah.. way to throw in the "ZH'ers are this and ZH'ers are that.  That really makes you looks smarter than us and makes your point more valid. Not

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 20:01 | 3615657 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Looks to me like Turkey is happy to position itself to benefit from this multi-sided 'trade' going on, but is nobody's fool or errand boy. 

They are shrewd business people and hagglers, and know "the game" that is being played by the US_IDF alliance:  1. ME in turmoil, 2. water rights from Syria, 3. pipeline through Syria, 4. Trade 'cheap' (Fed-subsidized) gold-for-oil with Iran.  If the NATO (i.e. the US, i.e. Israel) wants Turkey to play ball, they will have to let them into the EU, and thus eliminate all trade barriers to the EU.  The EU is more of a joke, day by day.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:47 | 3614545 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

My money's on NATO.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:58 | 3614593 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Yes, but it gets tiresome seeing the team there every year.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:41 | 3614793 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

I suppose it would be too much to ask that the game turns into a riot and everyone ends up dead except the spectators trapped in the stadium.

Then they can leave a go about their business.

Best outcome but most unlikely.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 19:25 | 3615554 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

The winner may not the man with the plan! Just saying, once these things really start they take on a mind of their own!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:27 | 3614724 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Taking the 'american' side is a sure bet.They use performance enhancing drugs.

'Americanism' at work.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:16 | 3615205 onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

France, UK, and the US

Now known as the FUKUS

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 18:36 | 3615405 rivoniaboy
rivoniaboy's picture

Axis of Evil?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 20:04 | 3615664 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Bigus Dickus and FUKUS Maximus on tour

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:28 | 3614432 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

It's all about government and has been for 10,000+ years.

Government is the body, everything else is just its tentacles.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:07 | 3614628 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

I see it differently. The populous is the body. The body is detrimental to itself because there is a parasitic hydra attached at the brain stem. Instead of just punching ourselves in the face, we are armed with the weapon known as government for enhanced effectiveness. Of course it's not in the hydra's interest to kill its host, rather to keep it weak and co-dependent. The hydra itself is the banking system enabled by the love of money that the members of the body unwittingly embrace.

Scalpal?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 18:07 | 3615342 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

So if government didn't exist at all, the banking system would be as destructive and evil as it is now.

A free market with competing currencies would spawn the banking system from hell that we now are saddled with?

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 20:25 | 3617322 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

They've formed their own political party...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:48 | 3614845 JohnG
JohnG's picture

 

 

Government Goldman, JPM, BOA is the body, everything else is just its tentacles.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:59 | 3614254 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Why are the British working with Al-Quida now?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:00 | 3614261 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Haven't they always? :-)

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:07 | 3614307 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

Just conjuring up an enemy at the gates.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:36 | 3614476 ACP
ACP's picture

As we've seen lately, an enemy already inside the gates.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:36 | 3614759 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

pretty sure this is all larry of arabia type shit

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:49 | 3614847 Wile-E-Coyote
Wile-E-Coyote's picture

Hey the Brits have worked with the US for years!!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:49 | 3614852 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Why are the British working with Al-Quida now?

Because only the planet's various Hill People have worse teeth than they do?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:59 | 3614257 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Denitely shaping up to be a hot Summer.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 13:59 | 3614258 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

War: what's good for? Profits.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:19 | 3614374 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Sequester? What Sequester?  We don't need no stinking Sequester!  Time to rotate inventory, thanks to the 53% who pay Federal taxes and all the Unwashed Masses who keep the VoM (Velocity of Money) going.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:38 | 3614485 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Sounds like some Saudi and Qatari money heading to Britain's MIC.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:00 | 3614263 Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

the bail-in of cyprus is all part of this geo-political game

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:01 | 3614266 VonManstein
VonManstein's picture

NoDebt you are a prick its not funny.

And second this will continue to be a complete failure, no war will happen. UKUS are desperate and Putin is keeping things straight.  Assad calm and rational.

This is chess no doubt, but its checkmate already

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:12 | 3614330 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Wasn't meant to be funny.  Big wars often start with small wars.  And there's nothing you can do about it but watch.  It's out of your control.  So have some popcorn and watch the show they have prepared for you.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:22 | 3614391 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

There's already plenty of footage from syria...  if you can stomach the snackbars...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:36 | 3614468 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Butter on mine.
And some Milk Duds.
Didn't see me rootin' for the Russians, but the enemy of my military industrial complex is my friend.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:45 | 3614535 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I down-voted you for the glassy plain part.

That's neo-idiotcon talk.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:56 | 3614587 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Ah, now I understand.  I'm not a Neocon.  Guess I tripped over a "code phrase" on that one.

I was trying to point out that Syria is a much more serious conflict than any others in the recent past.  You got the big boys going head-to-head (by proxy, at least) on this one.  Usually we don't see stuff like that.  One side objects from a distance but doesn't overtly arm the other side and make threatening gestures, like sailing warships into the area (which Russia did just a few weeks ago). 

This one sniffs different to me.  The fact that it's right in the heart of the Mideast and close to Israel (and there's regionally important pipelines involved) on top of all that tells me "don't be so sure this won't escalate into something bigger."  This one may bes more than just politicians flapping their lips.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:31 | 3615057 SDShack
SDShack's picture

Agree, plus throw in a very unpredictable Iran into the pot with their support of not only Assad, but Hezbollah in Lebanon and you have a very unstable mix.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:38 | 3615087 tango
tango's picture

Why the need for constant drama and promises of massive conflict now?  Syria has been slaughtering its own citizens for decades so this is not  new?  Wat's different is the outside influences of Al Qaeda, Iran, Hezbollah, NATO, etc.  This will keep going on and on with the 88% Sunni majority slowly taking control, gradually overwhleming the minority Shia by sheer numbers.  Assad has proved he is as ruthless as his pappy and won't quit.  Hard choice - Assad and a regime that relies on secret police and force to stay in power or a harsh mixture of revenge seekers for decades of Shia domination, Islamists, fundamentalists and a few secularists.  

As for proximity, EVERYTHING is close to Israel - Egypt, Gaza, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Iraq...  You can be sure that Russia is hedging her bets since she probably sees the eventual writing on the wall - a huge, lawless mess, fodder for military training and constant fighting. 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:01 | 3614268 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Can't China offload and live field test some tech against Israel too?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:12 | 3614663 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

China's game is to watch (and benefit) no matter which way this thing ends.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:25 | 3615019 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

they;re on Syria's side actually. lot of strange bedfellows on this one. Israel and Saudi Arabia? go figure. Great Britain and the terrorists? hmmm. Turkey won't like anyone here. Neither will Egypt. And the USA? trying to grab all the attention while not doing much in particular...

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 20:31 | 3617332 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Place a bet on Mua'd Dib and the Fremen...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:03 | 3614274 Killer the Buzzard
Killer the Buzzard's picture

What kind of Mig?? Makes a big difference.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:09 | 3614318 cifo
cifo's picture

The good one, for sure :)

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:09 | 3614320 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture

What kind of MiGs? The type that Syrian pilots can fly. Unless Russian will fly for them which is not out of realm of possibilities.

Syrian jets are probably worn out hence a need for new hardware.

It also signal to the guys in the neighborhood that you can just fly around  without taking so "risk".

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:22 | 3614703 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Probably some of these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30

I doubt the Syrians will try to dogfight them against the Israelis or Brits, as they just don't have the (Uncle Sugar-backed) training budget to really be a threat. They'll like be drone-killers, and leave the interdiction of foreign jet fighter to the SAM batteries.

 

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:26 | 3615025 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Sukhoi's are not MiG's...and vice versa. actually a big fan of the Sukhoi's myself...not that i've ever flown one of course.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 19:45 | 3615603 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Remember that this story originated on FT. They'd probably identify an F-15 as a MIG.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:12 | 3614332 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Another article I read indicated these would be Mig 29's. They better ship the pilots and missiles along with the planes because Syria isn't going to be up to speed operationally on those things for a while. 10 planes won't last long given the F-15 & 16 squadrons they'd be flying against.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:26 | 3614422 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

People just don't understand.

Russia controls the table now.  They pump 10+ million bpd.  They don't have to fire a shot.  They can just reach out and close the spigot half a turn.

They will not let Assad fall and that means there will be no pipeline for Qatar nat gas to Turkey (Europe).  And that means GAZPROM is all that keeps Germany warm in winter.

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:31 | 3614445 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

even the Germans are shutting off the "green energy" boondoggle and going back to coal

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 20:12 | 3615692 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Germany build the first pipeline for the Russians from  Siberia to Germany in the 70ties. It was the answer to the so called oil shock. The oil shock was not an oil shock it was simply an extreme price hike from the Saudis  but it is as clear as glass that the US was doing this. At the same time the DM went up  within months from 1 Dollar = 4 DM to 1 Dollar =  1.7 DM.

A classical double whammy from the US to let Germany pay for the Vietnam war. Crippling the German exports via the super expensive DM and at the same time the world had to suck-up all the new printed Dollars which were needed to pay for the lost war.  This created high inflation in Germany destroying the savings of the population. Interest and inflation went up to more than 10% in these years and stayed high for 10 years. Simply said this was wealth confiscation in a garnd scale by the US. 

Germanys direct  answer was the first long distance pipeline for nat gas stretching several thousand kilometers. Poor East Germans (ex DDR) had to provide the skilled labour - West Germany provided the pipes (Mannesmann) and the financing - while Russia promised to deliver nat gas to pay for the costs.  Washington did not like it but were letting the Germans go ahead. Who knows why?

And you know what,  since then Russian gas flowed unhindered to Germany it was not one day interrupted for nearly 40 years now. Therefore its correct to say that Russia is the most reliable supplier of energy for German. Even in the coldest days of the cold war the gas was flowing and heating the houses in Germany.   

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:57 | 3614592 reload
reload's picture

It would be wrong to assume Russia and Syria have failed to see this eventuality.

Take a dozen of the best Syrian fast jet pilots to Russia for an intensive 3 months of training and they would have no problems opperating those a/c effectively in combat. Why not take a squadrons worth of technicians / armourers etc at the same time ?

The Russians are no fools, they will not throw away hardware, or the reputation of their a/c as serious weapons of war. The Mig 29 is not state of the art, and how useful they prove to be will depend on the version of avionic and weapons suite they are equipped with. I understand the most up to date version would keep you awake at night if you were an F15 pilot.    

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:14 | 3614671 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

If used at all, they'd only have value as ground attack platforms.  They have no chance in an air superiority role against modern Israeli or NATO stuff.  Russia does not export their best avionics. 

Still, lots of value for ground attack against dug-in rebel positions.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:44 | 3615077 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

You assume that Syria is not a different situation.

A better way to view things IMHO is as "Serbia II" with stronger Russia, and a weaker NATO/US in many aspects (even though some of the new weapons systems the US has are likely spectacular).

I think Russia has decided they are not going to lose this one (to prevent the Qatari pipeline) and not get humiliated like they did in Serbia/Kosovo. They've had a while to absorb the lessons of Serbia I - watch for the unexpected. I fear Russia will do whatever it takes to not lose. Whatever it takes even if it becomes a deadly game of chicken with puppet Obama, McCain and the neocons.

I'm willing to bet that within the conference rooms of the Pentagon back in the early fifties, the game planners assumed that Soviet pilots would not fly for North Korea. They were right - but they did fly for mother Russia and just for the excitement and the experience.

Fasten your seat belt on this one...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:54 | 3615313 reload
reload's picture

I think you got the picture spot on +100 !!

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 01:39 | 3616166 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Syria already has 35 MIG29s which apparently are good for dealing with ECM

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:05 | 3614288 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

All of the seven towers are in Russian territories (or under indirect influence) and one of them is in Syria, isn't it?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:05 | 3614291 Dareconomics
Dareconomics's picture

The Middle East is a seething cauldron of problems.  Let's reform the Ottoman Empire and let the Turks run the damn place.

 

http://dareconomics.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/around-the-globe-05-31-2013/

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:22 | 3614393 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

That doesn't sound Kosher to me.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:47 | 3614838 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

might want to check with the armenians on that....

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 17:39 | 3615271 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

didn't all the Armenians get killed in a battle against the Ottomen during WWI?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:05 | 3614292 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Everybody arm everybody and then shoot in all directions...everybody wins!!!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:06 | 3614295 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

And who is going to pilot the migs ???

Syrians or Russians?

or Turks, perhaps.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:06 | 3614303 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Nation destroying building at its finest.

Has the "Great Game" ever paused for one minute since it began?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:07 | 3614310 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

The government(s) really need a distraction. Correlation and causation between military aggression and the U.S. Treasury cash perhaps? Maybe the UK drew the short straw for this round?

Economist John Williams says the Federal bank account at the US Treasury Department is down to just one-day's estimated outlay, a dire situation that can only be papered over for a short time. http://lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi261.html

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:19 | 3614373 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

indeed, tick tock motherfuckers...

http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/bond/10_year

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:08 | 3614311 Smuckers
Smuckers's picture

Hand-puppet theater....with nukes.

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:08 | 3614314 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

What interest does England and France have in the triumph of muslim extremists in Syria over Assad´s regime?  This is the real question.  Could the answer have anything to do with dollar transfers from the Fed to Europe´s insolvent banks?  I wonder.  I also wonder who the French and British would view as allies should the dollar no longer be capable of saving the ancien regime.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:22 | 3614385 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

they want to get more NG out of Qatar and that means running a pipeline up through Syria-Putin wants to keep Europe dependent on his Nat Gas thus controlling the market-follow the $-sonny

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:41 | 3614504 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Chess or Checkers???

There's at least half a dozen new "pipelines to Europe" on the drawing board at this moment.

Then there's the Gazprom operating concession with Israel, where if Israel tries to back out, the WBG (of all institutions) will be used to make gas extraction cash flow negative for Israel.

There's a lot of money on the table, so I'd keep an eye what can't be obtained with a simple <CTRL-P> by a central banker.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:45 | 3614527 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

ohhh- they're on the drawing board- they're as good as completed then. you can't ctrl-p your way to a warm house in the winter- unless you have a fiat-fueled-furnace.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:03 | 3614620 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That was an intentional generaliztion, but they are further along than the Qatari pipedream, which hasn't even secured land rights yet...

Two of them were in the news today.

Gazprom is highly likely lose market share regardless.

 

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:00 | 3614609 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Adventures in Pipelinestan, bitches.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:22 | 3614395 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

They don't have any. They're just bored and have somehow bought into the nonsense that they can somehow magically placate the islamists that have infected the cultural sores initially opened by the primitive superstitions of socialism.

Socialism is like an ideological AIDS virus.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:24 | 3614405 Elijah Craig 18
Elijah Craig 18's picture

What do England, France and the rest of Europe get from toppling Assad?

Breaking the virtual monopoly that Gazprom currently holds supplying Europe with desperately needed Natural Gas. The Russians won't let Syria go without a great deal of kicking and screaming. Once Assad is removed, the theory goes that Qatar can finally build an alternative transnational pipeline across the Syrian desert to distribute its own natural gas right to Europe's doorstep.

A lot of that "rebel" funding is coming from Qatar too.

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:25 | 3614418 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Hollande, Cameron, Hague get gratitude in offshore bank accounts from Qatar. France UK get the feeling of power so long as the Us provides the insurance policy

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:28 | 3614427 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the Europeans couldn't handle Libya w/o US help- should be funny to see them get their ass handed to them by the Russians.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:34 | 3614459 Elijah Craig 18
Elijah Craig 18's picture

You have to admire the business model the Russians are employing selling planes to Syria just days after Obama orders the pentagon to develop plans for a no-fly zone over their airspace.

Sell planes > Blow them from the Sky > Sell more planes...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:46 | 3614539 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

if you think the US is going to fire on Russian-piloted(yeah-I said it) MIGS then I have some swamp land I want to sell you

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:54 | 3614579 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

That's the model for every country's Offense Industry.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:40 | 3614500 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

I would assume that is one of the carrots dangled in front of France (still not sure what it does for England).  In additional arms sales are good for the economy (stimulative and what not).

But Europe risks an embargo of energy by Russia in troubled economic times, with unrest at the doorstep of most of the European governments.

I do not think that this U.S.-European alliance can endure.  I think the only thing holding it together is the petrodollar, which for the moment, trumps Russian energy.  At the end of the day, however, Russian gas will prevail over U.S. dollars, and the U.S. will probably find itself at odds with old friends (France especially).

Do not underestimate the influence of the Jewish lobby and the Christian conservatives (especially in the U.S. intelligence agencies) on the course of U.S. foreign policy.  This is really about dislodging Hezbollah, a project which Israel cannot do alone, as proved by their ill-fated war some 5 years ago.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:45 | 3614520 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Russian Nat Gas is only 30% of EU supplies, fyi, while it's 80%+ of Russia's export market. That's not really a monopoly, but hey, and Russia relies more heavily on the EU than the EU relies on it.

Translation: you've got the right idea, but the wrong way around. If you wanted to threaten Russia, you'd push the Qatar pipeline, which is what the USA + Israel are doing.

 

Seely a bit more clearly now? The EU isn't Ukraine in this play book.

 

 

 

 

p.s. Pipelines in the region have a really shitty record of getting blown up. Ask Turkey & the PKK.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 20:10 | 3615682 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Isn't the Ukraine near/on the ancient land of Khazaria?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:29 | 3614436 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

No it is all to do with the Muslim Brotherhood being the Chosen Ones to do what the West wants.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:30 | 3614738 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Overthrowing a government is consumption. Consumption is a hallowed duty for 'americans'.

Once this government is done, they can repeat the process.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:03 | 3614929 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Overburdening a roadside with Brown Baby Mao mud monkeys is public defecation.

Public defecation is a hallowed doody for 'AnAnonymist' Chinese citizenism citizens.

Once the excretion is done, they can wok a dog and repeat the process.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 19:44 | 3615599 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Could the answer have anything to do with dollar transfers from the Fed to Europe´s insolvent banks?  I wonder.  I also wonder who the French and British would view as allies should the dollar no longer be capable of saving the ancien regime.

As far as the UK is concerned I believe they have already a Dollar printing press of their own in London. Its anyhow just electronics. Who in the haven can control when UK banks do have suddenly each several hundred million or a billion Dollars more on their account. Its that simple. Let the same amount of junk papers disapear in one of their Special Purpose Vehicles (shadow Banking system) nobody is gonna noticing it,  in exchange for Dollar cash, which is then arriving at the bank. Then shut down this SPV and forget about it.  This money is then used for purposes agreed by US/UK - for example to buy treasuries in order to show that there is still real demand for treasuries. Or whatever purpose Uncle Sam intends.  I can imagine its done also the other way round to buy UK guilts.  Dollars or Pound not produced in the US or respectively in the UK are not shown in the QE statistics of the BOE or the Fed statistics. THis is something not heard of but very practical and convenient. I would do it if I were they.   Everything is possible as long it fits into their plans.  There should be no shortage of Dollars in the UK as long the City still buys treasuries.

France is for sure not connected to the Dollar pipeline. They are starving not for Dollars but for Euros - ohhh the French would love to have a pipeline from Frankfurt ECB pumping all the Euros needed to finance their idioticy. Stubborn Merkel and Schaeuble.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:10 | 3614321 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

August? You're kidding right? Why not use them to deliver the Germans' gold instead.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:11 | 3614324 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Its Afghanistan The Sequel.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:12 | 3614329 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

well now, The Israeli's have 10 more targets to shoot down.. what is the tally? something like Isreal 60 Syrians 0? any takers?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:14 | 3614343 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

The rematch might be different if Russia and China have some surprises ready.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:27 | 3614425 Solarman
Solarman's picture

You think Israel has shown all of their cards?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:29 | 3614437 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

you mean like more Iron Dome bullshit? let's see how they do against some bad-ass Spetsnaz MFers.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:03 | 3614608 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I mean, iron rusts out, right?  Why not go for a cool moniker like Stainless Steel Dome, or Silver Dome.  Too bad Thunder Dome was taken.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 20:13 | 3615694 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Chrome Dome or Superdome have a certain ring to it.  Which is the Kicking or Receiving Team here?  ;-\,

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:48 | 3614549 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

They showed all their cards, except their nukes againt Hezbollah, in their last attempt to invade Lebanon,  they got about 1/2 a kilometer into Hezbollah territory and had to withdraw.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 18:03 | 3615333 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

OT, but what an amazing coincidence!

Both oklaboy and Solarman have had ZH accounts for 3 years and 5 weeks.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:24 | 3614400 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

fuck the Zionist pigs in Israel- this won't be as easy as shooting rock-throwing Palestinians teens in the back.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:41 | 3614503 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

The Israelis lost 2 jets when they bombed Syria earlier in the month, so your stats already started out as bullshit...

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:23 | 3614384 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

To give you the answer you already know, "Because he's not 'our' dictator/bastard."

More war from the "elite" segment of the human race (aka "apes with car keys").

 

 

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:03 | 3614621 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

It seems like the human race is evolving towards a creature with all the bad characteristics of both the Morlocks and the Eloi.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:31 | 3614741 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

'Americanism' leads an intensive human selection program.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 04:13 | 3617811 cpzimmon
cpzimmon's picture

Good name.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:24 | 3614407 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I'll take that one, GW.

A:  It's because it never was about 'dictators' and 'democracy'.

The way they fuck with language these days it's a wonder we can even think at all.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:28 | 3614430 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Good question.

It went from "dictators are bad umkay" to "we will decide which ones are bad and which are good".

 

What about the DICKTATER in the U.S.???

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:58 | 3614598 smacker
smacker's picture

 

Simple. They might be dictators, but they're OUR dictators.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:11 | 3614657 1000924014093
1000924014093's picture

<sigh> Too slow.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:10 | 3614654 1000924014093
1000924014093's picture

Because they're our dictators, duh.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:45 | 3614820 jtg
jtg's picture

How about the dictators in the US?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 19:24 | 3615549 resurger
resurger's picture

spot on

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:13 | 3614333 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

Then Britian sends SAM launchers to the terrorists... what's the end game on this?

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:14 | 3614342 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Everything goes horribly wrong and George Bush gets blamed.  The plot never changes, just the geography.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:15 | 3614349 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Note that KABUKI and BUKAKI (theater) are anagrams of each other... When stylish turns ugly.

Brit:  I say, I say, I say... Should be a jolly good show for live-theater testing of weapons and systems.

American:  Hu-hah!

/s

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:23 | 3614350 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Hey, Russia. What's with all the small toys? Don't you have a few hundred rusting nukes lying around? Sell, em! Give one to Iran already so we could put the whole "are they gonna or aren't they gonna" debate to rest.

Iran has nukes. There you go! Problem solved. Invasion plans cancelled. In fact, send nuke everywhere you don't want to have war. Saddam had none and now his entire coutnry is a US airbase / supply depot.

Pakistan has nukes. They gotta learn how to wave them around properly to have a meaningful effect. Korea's doing it hight. They mention nukes more often than George Carlin curses when he talks politics.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:30 | 3614440 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hmmm, interesting concept you got there.  All it takes is one underground nuke blast in Iran, and the Invasion is off.  "Paging Mr. Putin, paging Mr. Putin.  Red courtesy phone please."

The Likud would then have to stop yanking America's chain, and come with at least some sincerity to the negotiation table.  Recognition of a Palestinian state by the international community would give Netanyahu a coronary or stroke.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:02 | 3614617 optimator
optimator's picture

One on Dimona would solve a lot too.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:15 | 3614351 kilters
kilters's picture

Bit pointless shipping MiG's surely?

What's the benefit in getting 10 fighters when money could be better spent on more missile defense batteries?

Missile batteries with chemical warheads, now there's a deterrent.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:27 | 3614424 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

MIG 29s flown by Russian pilots should be just as effective as MIGs with Russian pilots and Chinese markings were in Korea knocking Sabres out of the sky

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:01 | 3614612 optimator
optimator's picture

You forgot about the F-80s, F-84s, F9Fs, Meteors, and even B-29s.  The MiG 15 was a vicious surprise flown by volunteer VVS aces.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:16 | 3614355 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Russia has some excellent scientist. They have created excellent offensive and defensive weapons.

The chinese have the specifications and designs for practically all of the US weapons systems. This means they how to make them ineffective.

The US has defeated itself with all of it's political correctness. Try and get a US or European spy into a Chinese PLA factory or installation. It's almost impossible.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:36 | 3614473 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Obviously you don't think like a CB or the DOD.  It's all good...  this 'spying' business just becomes a false-flag justification for spending MOAR.  Up that Debt Ceiling!  Build up that wall (of debt), Mr. President! /s

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:57 | 3614574 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"Russia has some excellent scientist."

Yes, they sure do and their limited resources due to their past, centrally controlled industry resulted in such things as rocket engines created in the late 60's that are still of an efficiency that recently amazed the US aerospace industry and which are still superior to anything we have even now:

The Engines That Came In From The Cold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZnYr94aa9E

The RD-180 Rocket Engine is a Russian dual-combustion chamber, dual-nozzle rocket engine, derived from the RD-170 used in Soviet Zenit rockets, and currently provides first-stage power for the (latest) American Atlas V launch vehicle:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:31 | 3614742 samsara
samsara's picture

They even use common sense too.  Like when NASA tried to invent a pen that would work in space, russians used a pencil.   At least that's the urban legend.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 15:36 | 3614765 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Try and get a US or European spy into a Chinese PLA factory or installation. It's almost impossible.
__________________________

Fantastic. The 'american' love for fantasy knows no bound.

'Americans' have been running the most extensive spying programs ever. It is another department 'americans' have no match.

'Americans' aim to monitor everything that can be monitored. They are beyond eavesdropping.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 16:09 | 3614954 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Craptastic. The 'AnAnonymystical' love for fantasy knows no sense.

Chinese citizenism citizens have been running the most extensive public roadside bowel emptying programs ever. It is a communautist stench which has no match.

Chinese citizenism citizens aim to cover with crap everything that can be crap covered. They are beyond dung dropping.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 19:59 | 3615646 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

God Bless You "The Fourthstooge-ing", you have a pathological obsession with Shit I hope you will seek help eventually, until then this might interest you, there is a BBC show on engineering Marvels about the sewers of London, before the sewer there where litteral rivers of Shit flowing in the streets of London, there are some pretty good sffects of this in the show but, if it is the smell that excites you well,,you will just have to imagine that, I'm sure it was strong.

Sat, 06/01/2013 - 01:02 | 3616145 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Funny as a squirrel in the convenients store.

What is stupid is to consider that the decision is not true to the AnAnonymystical philosophy.

Don't worry though, dude. It is 'AnAnonymist' way to shift the bill of wrongness onto others, so no harm in being wrong, others will digest it for you.

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:17 | 3614360 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Good for business.  Sell those weapons!!

Fri, 05/31/2013 - 14:18 | 3614366 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

My old manager's brother trained pilots in Saudi Arabia.  Said that Arabs have "spacial dyslexia" and are not able to get their bearings right when flying.  Hope the Syrians can get a grip on the stick and help protect their homeland from Western intrusions.

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