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Guest Post: Is It Fixable?
Via Simon Black (from 2011 but perfectly relevant) of Sovereign Man blog,
In the 15th century, the highest standard of living in the world belonged to China. Places like Nanjing had reached the pinnacle of civilization with incredibly modern infrastructure, robust economies, substantial international trade, great healthcare, and a rising middle class.
Across the globe, Europeans were living out short, mud-filled, brutish lives in squalid poverty, dying off by the thousands from the bubonic plague. They were practically Neanderthals compared to the Chinese, and explorers like Marco Polo wrote fanciful tales of wealth and opulence in the east.
If you had told a Chinese merchant at the time that, over the course of the next several hundred years, global primacy would shift to Europe (and a relatively unknown American continent), you would have been laughed at. It was simply unthinkable given how advanced China was over the west.
And yet, it happened. History shows us that the great things about western civilization (Industrial Revolution, technological achievement) and the not-so-great things about western civilization (imperialism, slavery, genocide) caused the tables to turn and primacy to shift from east to west.
Ironically, the tables are turning yet again, and its driven by a number of factors.
At the tail end of World War II, a new global financial system was concocted that was heavily biased to disproportionately benefit the United States. Over the subsequent decades, foreign countries would obligingly mop up US government largess and finance out of control retail consumption.
It got to the point where people felt it was a natural right of Americans to have huge homes, cheap gas, and oodles of junk, as well as a government that could buy anything it wanted without giving a second thought to fiscal discipline. Much of this was made possible at the expense of peasant workers overseas.
For years, they imported US inflation and suffered a tremendous disparity in standard of living, all because of how the global financial system was set up. This system, based on the United States as the center of the economic universe, is now completely fractured, and it’s the biggest game changer in centuries.
Is it possible that such a force can be stopped or reversed? Highly unlikely.
These huge sea changes in the global order happen slowly, like titanic ships changing course in a tight canal. The initial seeds of change were planted decades ago when the US began running consistent budget deficits in the early 1960s, and even before that when the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 (which forever corrupted the nation’s money supply).
The negative momentum has been building for an exceptionally long time. Today’s debt, inflation, and unemployment crises are merely the latest symptoms of a cancer that has been growing for decades.
In total objectivity, the patient is beyond cure at this point… and the math is quite simple.
The US debt situation is already very precarious, and even the government’s own budget shows continued deficits for years and years to come. Undoubtedly, this represents some level of risk for the nation’s creditors, and market participants will require a greater return on investment in order to justify the risk of loaning money to the US government.
Even assuming that all existing debt is rolled into new bonds, higher borrowing costs will absolutely cripple the Treasury. The more money they borrow, the higher their borrowing costs will become; yet, the higher their borrowing costs become, the more money they’ll have to borrow to make interest payments.
Nations typically enter this vicious cycle once they start having to borrow money just to pay interest on what they already owe. The US is already way past this point.
If you study US financial conditions, you’ll see that mandatory entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare soak up over 75% of all federal tax revenue collected. That’s before paying a penny in interest on the debt. The rest of the budget constitutes several trillion dollars in other expenses like genital-groping TSA agents.
As such, given the current budget just for the sacrosanct areas like defense and senior benefits, tax revenue falls short. America has to borrow to pay its interest expense.
Is it possible for a white knight to come riding in and slash spending by the necessary (and brutal) 50%++ just to break even? Possible, but extremely unlikely without granting him/her dictatorial powers. Getting a majority of 435 members of Congress to sign up for such painful political consequences is dubious at best.
Even still, such cuts would just be enough to break even. In order to actually make progress on paying down the debt, one would have to make even steeper cuts… and that’s just at today’s levels. The debt grows worse by the day, as do useless ‘economic recovery’ spending measures.
As such, borrowing costs are set to rise, causing the budget deficit to spiral out of control towards an eventual default.
Since so much of the global financial system is based on the US treasury market, this will set off a chain reaction of bank defaults and commercial bankruptcies, not to mention trigger a wave of credit default swap and other derivative obligations to the tune of several trillion dollars.
The other (more likely) possibility is that the Federal Reserve will continue to finance the deficit by conjuring additional money supply out of thin air, eventually leading to a loss of confidence in the dollar as a reasonable store of value.
The only reason this hasn’t happened already is because there is no viable alternative yet, however there are clear signs that investors, foreign governments and foreign central banks are scrambling for a solution [especially with the demand for physical gold remaining high].
Barring a benevolent dictator or some kind of miracle, this situation is unstoppable and irreversible until the next cycle of the global pecking order turns the tables once again.
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Thank you for highlighting some of the more trite metaphorical and empty sentences.
Devoid of purpose or meaning they flounder on, into the night...
hehe... No one really "fixes" a Ponzi scheme. They just go on until they can't and then those responsible try to escape.
It's the escape that's being planned. Not the fix.
+1
Don't see a section on rigging gold and interest rates with the BIS / LBMA / Comex and central banks blowing bubbles for decades. It's not all about fiscal deficits and entitlement programs.
We now have a distorted and unsound economic structure and a massive debt bubble, which seems to be our key problem.
Don't know what caused the Chinese dynasty to fall but in America the cause is the same as all the Western Empires before it which is the costs of the wars. While it's never mentioned the costs of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I, Iraq II and the GWOT plust the interest on the borrowing almost ecactly total the national debt. Vietnam was hugely expensive in modern dollars and is what caused us to abandon the gold standard in favor of fiat currency but that is never mentioned either. Another interesting factoid is that when the war ended and the economy went into recession it took a full 15 years for DOW to reach the wartime highs set in the early 1970s.
The plague killed off 33% of the population of Europe. This caused labor to become scarce which improved the value of labor and spurned innovation to do things with less labor.
WWII reguired the building of arms for fighting with the bonus being that the armaments destroy infrastructure and population.
War or pandemic or both???
I doubt the Chinese standard of living ever approached that in ancient Rome or Greece.
Aqueducts, paved roads, indoor plumbing, mining, large buildings (Colosseum) & more reached high levels in Rome not seen elsewhere until the Renaissance in Europe.
PC propaganda aside.
From 800 to 1450 A.D., China had a paper money system with numerouse currency and economic crashes.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1216647867.php
Kudlow Ming often spoke to the people of King Paper.
Cost of wars, then why is Europe broke? They spend very little on their military and defense. How about the cost of maintaining the welfare state. The article highlights that there will be a shift in power to the east, and by looking around at the self entitled bitches we've become, rightfully so.
The cost of the war on poverty, that grand socialist experiment whereby equality of outcomes drags everyone down...
DaddyO
Open borders aka allowing the third world to flood in. Those chickens are also coming to roost in the USA.
The attack on our culture and traditions of self reliance and liberty came from multiple fronts and was orchestrated over decades by the leftist progressives that took over our institutions and hollywood/MSM. Because of how they've slowly changed us, sometimes I feel that even if we ended the fed tomorrow or it went bust, the population at large would still look to the Govt for answers.
Finance is certainly part of the reason empires fail. Joseph Tainter "The Collapse of Complex Societies" (1988) puts forth a somewhat different theory. His theory is a nut shell is when the amout of input necessary to maintain a society exceeds the benefit output - the downward spiral begins. The inputs can take many forms including energy, political/socialogical form, infrastructure, defense, agriculture, etc. Obviously the ability to pay (finance) these inputs are an important factor.
Even still, wars are only a symptom (ALL wars are about resources). It's all due to expansionism for the acquisition/access/control of resources: without expansion you don't have growth.
Is it safe?
What is it?
If you don't know about "it" then apparently "it" is safe!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG5Qk-jB0D4
"Barring a benevolent dictator or some kind of miracle, this situation is unstoppable and irreversible until the next cycle of the global pecking order turns the tables once again." I am pretty sure I have read this book somewhere before.
I read it in a theme:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrpIN4mqrN0
a masterpiece. maybe miss shields would excuse me from theme writing for the rest of my natural life...
Yes, it's "Gone with the Wind"
Simon, never ask for a "benevolent dictator". You'd be surprised what a truly benevolent one would do to your country - and imho you would't like it at all
meanwhile never ask a parliament or congress to do something that the majority absolutely does not want - like getting the financial house in order - particularly when the same majority does not do it at home
Benevolent dictator is still better than a bunch of oligarcs that pretend to be democrats and enslave the world with their 'love' for humanity.
Agreed.
The best solution is to let it collapse under it's own weight. It's cleaner that way.
No
Zombies
"eventually leading to a loss of confidence in the dollar as a reasonable store of value."
It's just a matter of time. The fed has bubblized nearly everything.The best way for a country to defeat the US is economically, not militarily. Take away it's industrial base and buy up it's political system and businesses.
What country is proceeding with this plan?
The financial P'sTB will not go quietly. As control slips away, war becomes more likely. Kill off 50-75 million and there's more for the financial jackals.
There's no good end to this.
The current Rand Inst. plan calls for the liquidation of 5 billion unfunded liabilities.
It will overshoot, and homo sapiens will be extinct, sooner rather than later.
Another failed species.
"There's no good end to this."
Don't want to spoil it, but the ending in the "Old Testament" seems to conclude along those lines...
What has been, will be again ..nothing new under the sun.
seven years of plenty and seven years of famine.
will the west see another dark age? of course we will!
Why do people need to obscure the REAL drivers? GROWTH. I dare anyone to point out where ANY nation/country/tribe/group has been able to grow without end.
It's the fucking PREMISE, Simon, the fucking PREMISE of perpetual growth on a finite planet!
All the other BS reasons (which are really deceptions put forward so people can get an advantage in some new bubble) are just that, BS (sub plots that only pad the story, they are NOT the story and do NOT drive the story).
This time it IS different because we've run out of places to exploit (before it was continent-hopping, now that we've exploited all the continents it's only other planets/stars that can be exploited, and, well, good luck with EROEI on this/that!).
It's not about growth; it's about control.
Liberate Libya and Iran. And, by the way, stick in a central bank while we're there.
If it were not for these religious fanatics, we'd have casinos at the Western Wall and in Mecca by now. With BBQ pork buffets.
"It's not about growth; it's about control."
Tail, dog... "Control" is only possible when there is growth (that's how the modern system works). The mantra is always about "growth." There's a reason why growth is pushed so heavily, why it's central/core to our paradigm. I'd further put it as: "growth" is the means in which TPTB can pitch the promises of the future, and it is this carrot-and-stick which allows them to maintain control (hold the carrot-and-stick).
The rest of your comments are excellent (if intended as sarcasm).
Growth enables controllers to maintain control, control perpetuates the growth models... the status quo. Growth is the "PREMISE!" - seer
Sup Seer!
Bullshit, control over RESOURCES insures future control, period. Infinite growth in a finite world is a myth. This is about power and control over resources, including the human kind. The paper-pushers create capital out of thin air with minimal effort, then they buy your labor and the real products derived from your labor to enrich their lives, all the while you pay them interest for that imaginary "wealth". Money is an illusion to maintain power and control. Period. Stop accepting the paper promises in exchange for your labor and kill the beast.
In this context, the context of perpetuating our existing system... A system that REQUIRES growth, nothing I said is bullshit.
Paper pushing is the SUBSTITUTE for the LACK OF INCOMING needed to support the OUTGOING in the ponzi. The entire system is based on the assumption of growth. The need to control more and more resources is a symptom of the growth.
There is nothing mythical about the depletion of resources in a finite pool of resources. THAT is bullshit.
"Paper pushing is the SUBSTITUTE for the LACK OF INCOMING needed to support the OUTGOING in the ponzi. The entire system is based on the assumption of growth. The need to control more and more resources is a symptom of the growth." - no shit sherlock, that exactly what I said. Now go sell all your paper for real assets and resources.
I traded much of my paper for real stuff years ago thx. I own gold. I bought it because it is finite and requires work. I didn't buy it because it is infinite and in abundant supply.
I said control of more and more resources is a symptom of exponential growth models. You said the magic well has unlimited water or that gold is low hanging tree fruit. And to think otherwise is a myth.
But I'm glad we agree... lol, idiot.
Good thing too, because I will happily accept your gold in exchange for the food my tribe and I provide. Nowhere do I cite any "magic well" douchebag.
Starve the bitches and take their gold.
Starve the bitches and take their gold.
Which is why you are no different than the narcissistic self-serving bankers and politicians we have now. You wish you were one of them.
You're one of their useful idiots who regurgitates their memes and diversions. If you can't see by now with all that's happening in front of your eyes I don't expect you to ever get it.
Actually, I'm not sure I'd go over so well with them... considering I'd be trying to crash exponential growth models and all. You, on the other hand, are right there. There's an entire 24 hour news cycle dedicated for you and the rest of the dime-a-dozens.
I have some of that and that ability too thx. Along with some more recent hard to finds.
And YOUR tribe? More like hermit contingent but I'm just guessing.
So now your well is finite? But, but, I thought that metaphor was a myth.
"Poor men wanna be rich, rich men wanna be kings, And a king aint satisfied till he rules everything."
Everybody wants everything all the time.
Work back from there.
Control provides a means to perpetuate systems that REQUIRE growth. And when growth meets wall, you BEG for floods to wipe out small towns. So called "liberations" are simply growth boosts in this context.
It really is like beating one's head against the wall, isn't it? For the life of me I can't figure out how people can continue to ignore the obvious, that FINITE means FINITE. Maybe people think that the world is flat, as that would be the only way in which there could be an endless source of resources to meet the needs of an infinite number of people.
GROWTH is ALL about the exponential function IF it contains no boundary for when said "growth" is to end. There's a lot of people stuck in two-dimensional thinking, and, frankly, if there's to be any evolution ahead for humans this kind of thinking will only fall to the wayside.
I'm NOT thinking that if there were infinite resources that anyone could possibly control others.
Life in most of 15th century China was pretty rough too. Unsurprisingly Kublai Khan didn't give Mr. Polo a tour of the shit-digger villages that his empire depended on.
Life in 15th century anywhere wasn't "pretty rough", it was shit. You know the story, it's the same as today, elites live in luxury while the peasant and apprentice work their assess off(compared to them the poorest of the poor in the modern west have it good, but relatively it's the same). Human existence has been a sad story of utter shit from day one.
Life is tough, period.
When you're able to heavily exploit others/resources life is much less tough. This game only works for some and for only a limited time, after which it moves on (until we realize that there are no more suckers in the room).
Couldn't we all just get along...
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/societal-ills-spike-in-crisis-s...
http://www.photographicmuseum.com/angelostzortzinis
Socialism is like an ideological AIDS virus that slowly and surely kills every host.
........
Socialism doesn't kill the host, it forces the host to make a decision at some point. The reasonable societies make the correct choice, the sick ones move to Asia...or Africa.
Two-dimensional thinking might suggest this, but in the REAL BIG PICTURE it's about growth, and as far as I've been able to tell capitalism is FAR more efficient at exhausting resources than socialism. Both, however, are based on the same flawed perpetual-growth-on-a-finite-planet premise. Nothing like pointing out the ugly horses at the glue factory, when YOU are a horse (there).
Fucking pikers.
Go ahead, present your case.
This is the distorted choir, we're supposed to automatically cheer whenever anyone says "capitalism" and boo when anyone says "socialism" no matter the logic.
Come on you fucking pikers, step up and try your hand at logic.
Almost by definition, competition MUST waste resources (since those who "failed" will have utilised resources for nil benefit). Co-operation is KNOWN to be the most effective use of resources (especially if limited), which is why the Allies Co-Operated with one another during WW2, in order to overcome the Axis powers (that also were benefited by internal co-operation).
Generally, co-operative systems (or systems where resources may be pooled for maximal utility / benefit) offer the lowest "cost" per outcome. There are also significant added benefits over "privatised" systems where competition leads to fragmentation, and inability / unwillingness to share information.
Don't get me started on the truly crap "Privatised" Imaging & Pathology services in Australia. Yeah - isn't Privatisation great!! - ancient equipment, VERY high absorbed doses by International standards (to overcome the internal defects in 10 year old ++ detector crystals), inability to send electronic imaging date (or unwillingness to do this), and very high costs to the Patients (who are responsible for the safekeeping of their films too - Private sector really can't be bothered to store imaging data as hardcopy - storage costs cut into the bottom line don't you know!) Privatised pathology services are no better, with "the best they can do" being a faxed copy of data , rather than electronic data that we can incorporate into the EMR systems (to allow electronic trends analysis, which is one of the main benefits of EMR).
Syphilis is a better analogy.
You have to get fuvked to catch it.
Its victims live for years and years as druling idiots before they go truly insane.
Is it fixable? Nope.
Maybe you should change your name to 'Meathead'.
It's not fixable WITHOUT war. War is how one comes to acquire resources that are otherwise not obtainable. And then there's nothing as stupid as to continue to build on top of what is clearly a limited resource.
This is Easter Island and we're still chipping away at the stones in the quarry. Any future generation will blame it all on either a failure to turn over the functions to "free trade" or a lack of resolve by the then "leaders" to increase the activity (not enough faith that given the right number of completed statues will magically result in salvation).
Our dear international man should read a bit more history if he believes the 15 century as he describes it. The foundations of incredible advancement was laid during that period allowing the Renaissance and Enlightenment to exist. But then our little world traveler hasn't been known to be friendly to his roots, which suggests to me he doesn't understand it. I'll take the West anyday over the corrupt societies of Asia. Oh, I live in Asia.
Why don't we be a little more specific about "where" in Asia.
Number of civilized people getting randomly assaulted/murdered by third world immigrants in Taiwan/Singapore/Japan/Hong Kong on a daily basis: next to none.
Number of same in the West: too many to count
Also no Japanese or Taiwanese soldiers getting their heads cut off in the street in broad daylight by Nigerian Muslims.
Get a clue.
"I'll take the West anyday over the corrupt societies of Asia."
And we KNOW that there's no corruption in the West, right?
As I've noted elsewhere, just because the corruption tends to be shouting at you on a regular basis as you go about your daily business it doesn't mean that it's MORE than where it happens via a middle man and out of sight (West).
Please note that the story is changing now that the mirage of the West is unraveling. Funny thing happens when the realization that resources are limited dawns on people. In the East people are more accustomed to having to manage with fewer resources; we'll soon be able to see how the West fares...
I don't agree. The founding fathers started with nothing and over 100 years built EVERYTHING. It is totally possible to do the same again. What needs to happen is indeed a massive clensing of all the corrupt non Americans values in this country. Indeed so many people shouldn't even be Americans based on their stupid beliefs. They clearly don't understand the history of the land. If Germany in 40years after WW2 could rebuild, so can America. It's not all about confidence, it's all about CHARACTER.
"The founding fathers started with nothing," bullshit, this comment is beyond ignorant. The founding fathers started with many numerous assets including abundant natural resources and slave labor. Much "cleansing" was done as well, just ask the Native Americans. Nice character there asshat. At least they did have sound money.
The injuns started off with the same assets yet they did nothing with it. It's culture sonny......
Sure, and the west used that same logical with the folks in the middle east. How's that working out for us again? either be honest about wiping out those "inferior" folks (and finish the fucking job) or shut the fuck up, but don't be a disingenuous prick. Blowback is a bitch...
@Zola
"What needs to happen is indeed a massive clensing of all the corrupt non Americans values in this country. Indeed so many people shouldn't even be Americans based on their stupid beliefs. They clearly don't understand the history of the land."
Correct. Recent examples: Students at University of Colorado thanking IRS for harrassing those evil Tea Party types and people of Boston celebrating their oppressors.
Sad.
rofl......the problem with the West is ill-educated folks such as yourself. The Middle East will cease to exist once we find a new energy source. We don't have to wipe them out, they will do the job themselves. History, math and science probably are not your strong points eh physics boy?
Ah yes, unfortunately, you actually need resources and captial in order to develop those "new technologies". How far in debt is the west again moron? Where is Ameica putting the majority of it's capital and resources again? Maybe bailing out the fucking financial sector and all those useless paper-pushers wasn't such a good idea huh dipshit?
The captial and resources mal-investment and mis-allocation continues. In the meantime I am still waiting for those fusion reactors. Well? where are they fucknut? how many cities are getting there power from them again? Troll harder.
Takes time son. Especially in an era of a big, corrupt bought and paid for gov't. But our most daunting task is the large group of folks in the US who are whining little girls and can only say it can't be done. Anything can be done. Instead of standing on the side whining about the wagon being stuck, get your a$$ down there and PUSH.
It's great to party!
I always thought that life was about staying around as long as possible. And for a "culture" to do this it has to exhibit sustainable practices spanning MANY generations. Current masters of North America aren't exactly showing their prowess in this department.
The "injuns" had plenty of food, lots of fish and plenty of buffalo. The "superior" culture has what, depleted fish stocks, no more buffalo (except some park exhibits and odd livestock rancher here and there); it has CAFO, farmed fish and Monsanto (and relies on a non-renewable resource -oil- in which to make it all work.
Hubris. Fucking hubris...
The Founding Fathers had no nation/state till they declared independence. The FF laid the basic design of the nations government, educational system and the methods of expansion. They deserve much if not most of the credit for what the USA became around 19950.
But the leftist progressives have fucked everything up in pursuit of ideological goals imported from the worst Marxist thinking from Europe. And as to the Amerindians being the victims of 'cleansing', there was no top-down plan to do that. Most of it was the result of American colonists taking reprisals for Amerindan atrocities, believe iot or not. The Amerindian tribes that were peaceful and worked with the US are still where they were encountered initially, and a good number of them have completely assimilated by their own choice. Very few want to live with crude technology and berift of modrn medicine, even the romanicized 'noble savages'.
There are more Amerinidans alive today than when Columbus arrived, and if you count people of partial Amerindian descent then they are likely ten times more in number.
There was no cleansing, not at all.
"There was no cleansing, not at all." - right, and no "trail of tears", no "holocaust" etc.
Left, right, left, right, keep believing that meme, the money masters thank you.
Dont put words in my mouth, lol. I am talking about a specific subject; how many Amerindians are alive today vrs at the time of Columbus, and there are at least 52 million today, and who knows how many more of mixed heritage that are still culturally Amerindian.
If you want to close your eyes to the facts and believe Hollyweird myth, go ahead, I dont give a fuck, but whenever people repeat this bullshit, I set it straight.
And do you really think that all the Amerindian wars were 100% solely started by colonists? roflmao, of course they werent. Many, many times the Amerindians would start wars for religious reasons (like stabbing Mother Earth when colonists drove fence poles into the ground) or because they liked raiding (comanche did it all the time) or because they were hired by foreign enemies of the US (like the Red Stick Creek).
Dont be so fucking gullible.
Ha ha! This is FUNNY. Someone with a useranme of "JimBowie..." trying to justify the "invaders'" right to "defend" themselves against the "red man!" "We [white invaders, who didn't think they were "invading" because they were empowered by a higher power] were the victims!"
HELL FUCKING YES the natives did what they could do to try and get rid of the invaders.
JimBowie was a great man, and he would have beat th shit out of little fagots like you had you talked that shit to him, but on the internet little punk ass bitches like you can run their damned mouths all day long. lol
And who is this 'we white invaders'? YOU didnt invade shit, so shut the fuck up and dont talk for people who would toss you overboard, you godamned pussy.
There's a pretty important detail our movies and textbooks left out of the handoff from Native Americans to white European settlers: It begins in the immediate aftermath of a full-blown apocalypse. In the decades between Columbus' discovery of America and the Mayflower landing at Plymouth Rock, the most devastating plague in human history raced up the East Coast of America. Just two years before the pilgrims started the tape recorder on New England's written history, the plague wiped out about 96 percent of the Indians in Massachusetts...
Historians estimate that before the plague, America's population was anywhere between 20 and 100 million (Europe's at the time was 70 million). The plague would eventually sweep West, killing at least 90 percent of the native population. For comparison's sake, the Black Plague killed off between 30 and 60 percent of Europe's population.
While this all might seem like some heavy shit to lay on a bunch of second graders, your high school and college history books weren't exactly in a hurry to tell you the full story. Which is strange, because many historians believe it is the single most important event in American history. But it's just more fun to believe that your ancestors won the land by being the superior culture.[Cracked - because it's about as high as your mental age could cope with; I can happily provide the Scientific papers on it, if you desire]
The cessation of industry, trade and wood fires is being investigated as a cause / contributor to the mini-ice age of the time.
Fun fact: if there hadn't been a plague, it's extremely doubtful that Americans would be of predominately European descent. cf India, British Colonial rule.
In other news, I find it very depressing that anyone past the age of 12 isn't aware of this (yep, I'm looking at the legacy of Ronald Reagan & John Wayne, Hollywood myths and bad faith history teaching, America). Oh, and the remaining natives? Yep, there was cleansing (reservations you muppet). Pile of bison skulls - if you're not aware of the strategy of resource denial, perhaps you need to learn a little more.
just a minor correction/clarification...it's not just north america that was impacted by this plague, but the americas: north + central + south america...
you may not believe me, but i learned this during high school and undergrad uni (american btw)...then again, i was a student of history and loved it. still love it...
I'd heard it suggested that it was somewhere around 25 million in both North and South America.
The "winners" always write the history...
The "winners" always write the history...
More bullshit yo uswallowed right out of pop culture mythos.
Who wrote the history of the fall of Rome; the Germans or the surviving Romans?
Good gawd, you are a stupid fucktard.
Yes, yes, of course. It's a Cracked Article, it's not anything above the reading age of 13 or not targeted purely towards American-Bros.
Wait till the Canadians have to face up to their past...
And what past do Canukls that are alive today have to face up to?
You libtards dont seem to realize that your entire group-guilt system of thought is based on RACISM, though an inverted form of it.
Thankfully people are starting to wize up and your bullshit is falling on increasingly deaf ears.
Yeah, I guess the school textbooks dont mention that so much anymore.
Plague did the dirty work and most of the early colonists settled into uninhabited areas peaecefully.
Or ran off to fuck them and live with them as it was pretty mensch. Women loved it.
Read the entire article dear, it's worth it.
You can take your condescending bullshit and stick it up your ass, dumbass.
I have forgotten more history than you will ever know, bitch.
So your theory is that if population levels 500 (or 200 even) years later increase. This proves there was no large scale die off?
Brilliant!
"There are more Amerinidans alive today than when Columbus arrived, and if you count people of partial Amerindian descent then they are likely ten times more in number.
There was no cleansing, not at all."
Dude, the term 'cleansing' refers to a total extermination, not a demographic bump in the road.
Most Amerindians did not die at the hands of crazed white invadeers looking to steal all the red mans wampum. whites and reds got to living near each other peacefully due to comon trade interests. This shared trade shared more than just goods, it also shared disease and cultural concepts. But there is no guilt in that as it was not intentional in the vast majority of cases.
Was there a large scale die off? Of course there was and the Amerindians were doomed to suffer it once any Old World nation reached the shore of the Americas.
It was inevitable and not anything to do with ethnic cleansing.
No.. the founders started by pillaging the natives, and then brought over slaves to do all the hard work.
Pillage? The natives had nothing to pillage. Slaves are a poor investment except for short periods of time. The real work was done by free men. But Chinese don't understand that considering they've been slaves for most of their long history.
What an ignorant fuck, until I separate your head from your body, you still have your life. whether or not you value it, is another matter altogether.
Lol, he presents ideas and facts, and you respond with threats and HE is the ignorant fuck?
ROFLMAO!
With a username of "JimBowie.." your bias is showing... Not a chance in hell that I'd take you seriously about being unbiased.
"he presents ideas and facts"
POOR, perhaps, but FACTS, um, no...
Lol, so taking the username Jom Bowie' proves I have bias?
You truly are a fucking moron.
And the dude did relay facts, even if you are too stupid and lazy to verify them.
Oh dear. I can see this thread being an absolute corker for ignorance. Americans are so bad at the concept of TIME and HISTORY. Too much TeeVee.
Let's start this round with the Chinese slur: You do know about the great railroad, and who built it, don't you?
I'd also suggest looking into who built the National Road.
Hint:
Ten thousand Micks
They swung their picks
To build the new canal
But the choleray was stronger
And killed
Ballad, 1800s.
As for "free men", you're on very shaky grounds if you want to trumpet about the early American labor movement and conditions. Really shaky ground.
Hint: There's a reason the signs used to say "No Blacks, No Irish".
Funny how you lead out with a pretty bigoted statement, then fold into PC bullshit.
1. up untill WW2, most of the common people around the world were very poor; dirt poor. If they could get a job or own enough farmland to make a living they were very fortunate. Most of them were essentially still peasants though that officially ended in the 1800s for most civilized nations, some were stuck in peasantry long afterwards, especially in third world countries. So, yes, the men who could go and build roads, bridges, railroads, etc were FREEMEN no matter how low their pay was. Unionization has greatly improved the lifestyle, health and independence of Western workers untill the 1970s when rampant inflation destroyed much of their savings and since then due to weak unions that stopped championing all workers, but retreated to defending their own narrow interests, workers wages are lower today after adjusting for taxes and inflation than in 1971. Meanwhile corporations contribution to the tax base has collapsed from its highs in the early 1950's.
2. If the US was so damned bad and godawful WHY DID THE CHINESE AND 'MICKS' STILL COME HERE ANYWAY? Obviously it wasnt nearly as bad as the PC historian/liars of today would make it out to be.
3. The cheif difficulties in building the railraods was in finding the funding and expertise to build them, not in finding muscle power to do so. Yes, poor workers swung the hammers and moved the rails, but they wouldnt have been able to do this without the leadership, financing and far-sightedness of the engineers and businessmen who directed the effort.
"JimBowie..." defending the white-man's abuse of non-whites, how unexpected!
That other countries were also enslaving people is NOT the point. This was the US, where "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights"...
The REAL Jim Bowie didn't believe that shit, and, clearly, neither do you. Coincidence?
Dude, I admitted that whites did some bad things, but I said it was mutual, not that whites were blameless. There was guilt among all groups involved.
But you are only interested in blaming whites for what was a totally natural and common system of the wealthy dominating the weak and poor, that was the point.
And Jim Bowie most certainly did believe in the Constitution and DoI principles, principles which you wouldnt even recognise today, shit-for-brains, so go fuck yourself.
Bigoted > PC Bullshit? Please assume it's deliberate. And no, "No Blacks, No Irish" isn't PC bullshit, it's reality. Look at the link dear, it's a song. A very famous song. Might want to look up who the Molly Maguires were some day.
#1 The majority of people are still very very poor. Might want to check outside the USA skippy. Even inside America, for that matter.
#2 The Irish came because of a famine and a deliberate English lead deportation drive. The Chinese came because of political upheaval (aka, backing the wrong side). They were sold some very nice propaganda, but reality didn't quite meet expectations. (Seeing a pattern yet?)
#3 I think your history is letting you down again: the contracts clearly paid for track laid, speed and targets (reach X on the map). This lead to all kinds of scams. Oh, and you're showing your knickers again. England had no problem with expertise.
Need more? I get junked for truth in these types of threads, but I'm not a politician, so I'm not going to back down.
It is PC bullshit because times were tough the world over, but the working poor in the US had it better than the vast majority of countries. That is why they stayed and also why they came here in the first place when they could have gone almost anywhere else.
Also, once they had the cash, if they felt things were so bad they could have left.
Have you left the US or were you ever on thses shores? If your here, why dont you leave? If you do not live here, then shut the fuck up, you fucking bigot.
born and raised in america...left in my early 20s and not looking back. love being in europe too much.
america is still a nice place to take a vacation and visit old friends and family.
i try to be an optimist about all things. unless there's some fundamental change in american society, culture, and politics, then i see little hope. however, there is the ocassional bright spot on the horizon...
"Pillage? The natives had nothing to pillage."
If I come on your property and take whatever resources there are, say in natural form, That wouldn't be pillaging?
"The real work was done by free men. But Chinese don't understand that considering they've been slaves for most of their long history."
Oh, great! It was OK to treat them like slaves because that's what happened to them elsewhere!
that all men are created equal... Apparently it was all BULLSHIT: we didn't believe it in the least; it was no more than marketing BS.
"Slaves are a poor investment except for short periods of time."
You are a sick fuck.
You really are an ignorant peice of shit.
Those quotes are not from my posts, you dumbass. you could at leazst get your attributions right.
And it is not pillaging to take resources from an area that is not owned by anyone. The Amerindians had no concept of property, everything was communal. So nothing was owned by them.
Of course the vast majority of europeans tried to buy rights to access resources when Amerindians were nearby, but if they were not, no one bothered.
If that is 'pillaging' to you, then you are a judgemental ass wipe.
The "founders" had little role in bringing over the slaves.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Lopez
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haym_Solomon
Moses Franks
For just a few examples.
I'd argue that THE issue is that they allowed it, after being pretty clear to sell us all on the notion of being "created equal."
Stupid shit, the American colonists had no ability NOT allow the Spanish, Dutch and Portugese empires from trading in slaves.
Please, go fuck yourself, again.
Who cares? European history is a history of bankruptcy, default, terrible loss of life and resources, terrible tragedy. Most of the time they manage to bounce back one way or another. Until at some point they don't. But that story will be told when it happens. I can't see this as the end.
We should really bring back monarchy. But decentralized monarchy. No king of America. I'll take a king of New Orleans. And empress of South Texas. Maybe a Duke of Seattle. That way if you don't like whatever's going on, you just leave or kill the royal family.
All you douchebags who keep saying "Bring out the guillotines!!!" / that shit doesn't work in democracy. Because, as Obama keeps telling you, YOU are the government. It's a giant "fuvk you" in your face. They do as they damn well please because you've given them license to do it. And they've shut off any possibly of you changing it. Think that happens in monarchy? Nope. Which is why the guillotine was effective (if you call the murderous, socialist rampage of idiocy that the French Revolution was "effective"). But it was effective in the sense that the Hapsburgs looked at the French and said "Rocco: cool. Losing my head: not cool. Let's not fuvk this up"
And please refrain from the term limits bs. The only thing a term limit does is compress the time a political leader under a democracy to steal and tip the scales in their favor for them and their friends. You actually make the situation worse. You just fit 8 years of horrible into 4. And the next one that comes along does the same. It's just a new laundry list of depredations.
Relax, it will come to this anyway as all economies are local and supply lines will not be able to deliver on all the paper promises. Get physical assets of a real value and a dependable tribe organized now as chance always favors the prepared.
I doubt it. Unless the Internet gets shut down or corrupted to the point where you can't use it. But I tend to believe that really liberty minded people are way out ahead of the goons on that one. I could be wrong. Hope I'm not.
What the fuck does the internet have to do with real supply lines? Spoken like a true sheep, at the end of the day nobody is going to give a fuck about the internet if food and fuel are not available. Certainly not a "liberty-minded" person.
The Internet will increasingly rely on more controls, TPTB HAVE to have it that way*. As LawOfPhysics puts it, the Internet isn't the thing that makes goods move, it's just an enabler. This has nothing to do with "liberty" (which is pretty much an abstract term, no matter how you or I view it to conjure pleasant thoughts/images).
* It's also a natural consequence of managing scarce resources. Data centers aren't cheap, energy isn't unlimited. AND, if one caught the recent ZH article mentioning the US military's concern over Internet/computer security (once again The Commies are Coming), "security" will only squeeze harder, something that doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies that I'd associate with "liberty."
The obsession with "Internet" and Smart phones is another sign of the times. Happy overreliance on "someone else doing the work / thinking for you". In Australia (I know, backward as hell but . . . . ) most of the long haul truckies use this thing called CB Radio. THEY are responsible for their part of the system, and they do not rely on any third party. Something that used to be called "Common sense / Self-reliance" I think.
These big datacentres DO use an AWFUL lot of electrical power. Whilst they certainly do have fallback generation capacity, one must suppose that any subversive organisation with half a braincell might have realised that this "third-party power dependency" does pose quite a soft target, since bulk transmission lines are not exactly easy to patrol, and those running through remote areas are that bit more inconvenient to fix if damaged.
As for the almost irreplaceable (short - medium term) power transformers (and associated infrastructure) - http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/13/05/22/0155228/congressional-report-us-power-grid-highly-vulnerable-to-cyberattack Sod cyberattack - one or two (at most) RPGs could knock out regional bulk power transmission for quite a long period (years), and there are a LOT of Civil War Re-Enactment Societies with artillery knowledge, and maybe the "wrong" mindset (acc. to Mainstream Media disinformation barrage!)
"Democracy" is a farce and an illusion, because all it means is that the real leaders are never really accountable for their actions.
Notice how the figurehead (Clinton, Bush, Obama) changes but the "advisors" (Kissinger, Brzezinski, Summers) never change. They're always there whispering in the ear of every new figurehead puppet. And so the left-right-left-right march of liberal Marxism/neoconservative Zionism proceeds unchallenged, because the real leaders (the "advisors") are invisible dictators for life.
This will ALWAYS be the case as long as there's a power center. Doesn't matter if it's Brand X or Brand Y, or if it's Size A or Size B; if it has power that can be grabbed it WILL be grabbed. And given that most(?) here don't believe govt is a good thing I'd have to point out that it makes no sense for anyone to want ANY kind of govt (those that disagree need to read my first two sentences again).
I tend to agree with the premise here. However, I would prefer if people evolved to the point of realizing that "leaders" aren't required.
there is a very interesting book called "evolution of civilization". In that Quigly postulates that at the beginning the social institutions drive the growth of the civilization. As civilization grows the institutions begin to entrench itself into the fabric of the civilization. As civilization matures the institutions become harmful as they become entity unto itself driven only to keep it self relevant. In this regard what is happening to global banking system can seemingly put into perspective. Once upon a time the banking sector helped cross border trade thus contributing to the rapid growth of western economy. Now the banking sector is a parasitic element that sucks the blood out the civilization.
Bingo.
Bingo! Truth be told, the banks screwed up a very long time ago - it appeared in full force with the Panic of 1907; they managed to cobble things together for themselves but appear to have been determined to get someone else to pay for their folly at that point. Someone really needs to investigate just who was behind getting the Federal Reserve enacted...dollars to donuts it was the money men, functionally bankrupt after 1907, who wanted to put the taxpayer on the hook.
The "maturation" is the product of slowed growth. The flow of punch starts to diminish, and I think this more of a natural evolution (consequence of growth) more so than a concerted effort/practice by any given group: yes, any group will seek to justify having a greater share than others, this too is common, not to mention always occurring (in the expansionary phase people are too punch-drunk to realize this).
Even if one could completely eliminate the banking sector the wheel of perpetual growth would roll on, eventually stopping (and we'd be pointing out some other sector that is responsible for the ills of no growth).
America’s standard of living was not “made possible at the expense of peasant workers overseas.” Rather, China’s standard of living has been made possible by the international corporations' transfer of America’s manufacturing base and patent rights to China and profiting, thereof, from China’s labor base.
There is only one reason to bring up these “huge sea changes in the global order” without mentioning this theft of American enterprise by the investment bankers. It’s to justify the Chinese system as a reliable and acceptable political partner in world economics.
To equate the Chinese system with the American Founders’ system is to deny the influence that freedom, free enterprise and an honest contract society had on development of the most important economic system in history: The American System.
The forces at work here (from Henry Kissinger to Bob Rubin to Goldman executives) that would try to make a tyrannical Communist system an acceptable political partner with an American private market economy need to be questioned about their motives.
Just asking: Would they favor this system for America in that it’s easier to handle for top down control?
It keeps them rich and in power. We do need a revolution and I'm convinced it can still happen at the ballot box. As soon as we get someone who will competently make the case that Big Government and Big Corproation are two sides of the same, nauseating coin, we'll be on our way.
The actual "sick man" in economic terms is China, not the United States. China just hitched itself to the very worst aspects of modern Capitalism as it entered its terminal phase - China is not economically strong because it has solid rule of law and provides better quality goods at a lower price (invariably the reason for a nation attaining economic dominance), but because they allow corrupt financial sharks to "invest" via bribery in an economy geared to produce low-quality goods at a price which destroys the makers of high-quality goods; and my bet is even with Chinese products being utter crap, they are still probably produced, per unit, at a loss...with the loss disguised by various bits of financial chicanery in the Chinese accounting system.
China looms up large right now in much the same manner that Japan did in the 1980's - appearing invincilble and ready to conquer the world. But just as Japan's economic success was built upon sand, so is China's - and just like Japan's, it will come crashing down. And when it comes down it will be much, much worse than Japan because (a) China is more corrupt; (b) China has no democratic means of adjusting policy, even in theory and (c) Japan at least did build up some real wealth 1945-1985...China has built up a mountain of debt (hidden, to be sure), a pile of bonds (a lot of them ours) and an economy which has massive over-capacity in shit anyone can build anywhere else, for the same price, and with higher quality.
Don't get me wrong - the reason I'm a Distributist is because I also despise our late-Capitalist economy, as well. An economy built on fake money and usury is just disgusting in so many ways. Of course, as a Distributist, I know the primary weakness of Capitalism - not too many Capitalists, but too few. The pragmatic facts of life are that the United States still sits on massive, un-tapped or only partially-tapped wealth. The boom in natural gas of late shows that - but that is just one of scores of areas where the United States can really get back in to wealth creation...and create enough wealth to discharge the Capitalists idiotic debts and restore economic health to the United States. It doesn't take someone coming along to cut 50% of spending in one year (as noted, this is not politically possible), but it does take someone coming along and realizing that both Goldman Sachs and the Department of Education have to go, and thus setting up some rather startling, but easily sold to the public, tax and spending reform ideas which would probably result in a balanced budget (genuinely balanced, not just legedermain balanced) in about 7-10 years, and our entire national debt paid off within 20-25 years.
Hate to break it to the doom and gloomers of the United States, but we're still the best nation in the world - even with all the nonsense we've allowed to happen, there is no other nation out there better positioned to transition back to economic rationality. Of course, it will still be very painful - the collapse is coming, globally, and its going to hurt, a lot.
Nonsense. Japan and China still have PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY so as to be able to employ a decent percentage of their citizenry in productive employment.
America has nothing but Starbucks, Chipotle, and big box retail selling imported junk. Also agriculture has been gutted. When the SHTF, there is virtually NOWHERE for the average American schmuck to be put to work to dig themselves and the country out of the rut. The whole 'natural gas boom' being able to pay off America's RIDICULOUS debt welfare state is a liberal fantasy that belongs on the pages of HuffPo.
China and to a lesser extent Japan, however, still have this productive capacity. They can still make real things. Combine that with the fact that China and Japan won't have to deal with armies of rioting blacks turning their cities into warzones when the SHTF, and they're head and shoulders better off than the US.
Those are the facts.
I agree they do have productive capacity - but so can we, if we simply want it. I'm not saying that we don't need a radical shake up; we do. We need, indeed, a revolution. But the collapse of this current system is coming - and when it does, it will allow a better system to arise - that is when to strike, but meanwhile build up the intellectual underpinnings of it and do what ever we can, in practical terms, to prepare for it.
Wanting productive capacity and having it are two different things. No matter how much you want productive capacity, it will take years to rebuild. And that's assuming a stable society.
Try rebuilding industry with hordes of blacks and other third worlders rioting in the streets because their EBT cards don't work anymore, while the Marxist Zionist media screeches about how "unbridled capitalism" was the cause of the crash. You won't even be dealing with a rational populace. It will take a miracle to restore order again.
At least the Chinese and Japanese know how to shut the f*ck up and stand in line. Japan has a culture of "gaman": keeping silent about your own personal problems because in the big picture they're no more important than anyone else's. Those are people who will make it through a crisis; not blacks who think they're entitled to a paycheck for being born and 300lb rednecks with sub-70 IQs.
You can thank the progressives and their multiculturalism.
Yeah, Nature abhors diversity!
Nature is very selective. Why do progressives want to play God?
They dont want to *play* God.
They want to *BE* God.
Obviously it does or it wouldn't have made our tribes and societies homogeneous to begin with.
Not only do they produce things the World wants (they DO sell things, so obviously someone WANTS these things), their Manufacturing programmes automatically contribute to development programmes (when you make something, you are on the look-out for a way to make it better / more reliable / less costly, so you can sell more for the same cost input), which is how businesses are supposed to run (develop, innovate, improve profitability or develop new revenue streams).
56,000 ++ American Businesses "gone to the wall" later, and the diversity of small biz. manufacturig in the USA is evaporating rather too fast. Big Biz is more concerned with the desires and "needs" of the upper floors of the Corporate Tower - which is why all those small biz. have gone.
And with those disappearing small biz. goes the broad knowledge base. Knowledge taught via apprenticeships "learning the REAL way" rather than via an increasingly suspect educational system.
You don't understand the capacity and ability of a free man.
there isn't just one 'sick man', in terms of global economic fiscal health.
Interesting post and I find myself in agreement with most of it. The detractors seem to not understand the ability or the capacity of a free man.
It's like Yogi Berra! It's unstoppable and irreversible, until it stops and reverses!
Now let's be fair and talk about other gov't expenditures instead of SS and medicare. And also.......just for shits and kicks let's throw nukes in the equation.
"like titanic ships changing course in a tight canal"
???????????????????????????????? I realize most metaphors aren't meant to be taken literally, but you do realize that ships can't change course in a canal don't you?
Anyone questioning anything is a tin foil hat conspiracy theorist nutjob... or so the sheeple tells me.
EVerything in the 1 st paragraph seems to be correct but this - "substantial international trade, great healthcare, and a rising middle class."
a) Someone got to check their facts.
b) Downfall of China to a large part could be attributed to them being asleep during the industrial revolution by not being actively involved in the global trade and blocking western innovations.
c) Chinese merchants were regarded a much lower as a class then bureaucrats, land owners, etc. They were not allowed to trade outside of China, which is one reason Portugal, Holland and later England were able to OWN the global trade in that region.
Most of East Asia is not stupid enough to fall for the self-destructive immigration policies that Europe and America have been tricked into. As long as Taiwan, Japan, China, can keep their populations homogeneous they will ride the coming tsunami far better than the multicultural sh*tholes of the West.
One upvote = one respect
One downvote = you're a POMO-loving homo
Correct, when real a real crisis comes, the countries of homogeneous cultures and values always implement real solutions faster.
You mean like Abenomics in Japan and the Cultural Revolution in China?
If you think those were bad, wait til you see how multicultural America turns out when the SHTF.
I don't believe that it'll be be cause there are multiple cultures but that we will see different cultures competing for what works in a no-growth environment.
I'm NOT betting on the TV-MIC-AUTOMOBILE-SUBURBAN culture. Hey, if I'm wrong then someone will be on the winning side of the bet- free trade!
How many do you hear/see complaining about "how hard life is"? I see a lot of dead fucking weight in the west, unfunded liabilities that will either be liquidated or kill the productive class. One way or another, something will give. There is no EBT card in China, take that away from Americans and let's see how it turns out if you are so confident.
as bad as we are, PAX AMERICANA will last our childrens lifetimes. it will get tougher. Top Gun is always the target. but when my Arab, Euro, non-chinese asian clients just think PAX CHINA, they all shudder. Drill baby, drill, save baby, save, learn baby learn