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Obamacare To Double Cost Of Insurance For Average Californian

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Last week, the state of California claimed that its version of Obamacare’s health insurance exchange would actually reduce premiums. But, as Forbes reports, the data that the executive director of California's 'exchange' released tells a different story: Obamacare, in fact, will increase individual-market premiums in California by as much as 146 percent. The exuberance that Peter Lee exclaimed over the 'savings' is a misleading comparison. He was comparing apples - the plans that Californians buy today for themselves in a robust individual market-and oranges - the highly regulated plans that small employers purchase for their workers as a group. If you're a 25 year old male non-smoker, buying insurance for yourself, the cheapest plan on Obamacare’s exchanges is the catastrophic plan, which costs an average of $184 a month; but in 2013, on eHealthInsurance.com, Forbes explains, the median cost of the five cheapest plans was only $92. In other words, for the typical 25-year-old male non-smoking Californian, Obamacare will drive premiums up by between 100 and 123 percent. The desperate spin of the PR disaster is incredible as talk of a 'rate shock' is now very prescient, "these extraordinary increases are up to 15 times faster than inflation and threaten to make health care unaffordable for hundreds of thousands of Californians."

 

 

Via Forbes,

Last week, the state of California claimed that its version of Obamacare’s health insurance exchange would actually reduce premiums. “These rates are way below the worst-case gloom-and-doom scenarios we have heard,” boasted Peter Lee, executive director of the California exchange. But the data that Lee released tells a different story: Obamacare, in fact, will increase individual-market premiums in California by as much as 146 percent.

 

...

 

“The rates submitted to Covered California for the 2014 individual market,” the state said in a press release, “ranged from two percent above to 29 percent below the 2013 average premium for small employer plans in California’s most populous regions.”

 

That’s the sentence that led to all of the triumphant commentary from the left. “This is a home run for consumers in every region of California,” exulted Peter Lee.

 

Except that Lee was making a misleading comparison. He was comparing apples—the plans that Californians buy today for themselves in a robust individual market—and oranges—the highly regulated plans that small employers purchase for their workers as a group. The difference is critical.

 

...

 

If you’re a 25 year old male non-smoker, buying insurance for yourself, the cheapest plan on Obamacare’s exchanges is the catastrophic plan, which costs an average of $184 a month.

 

... But in 2013, on eHealthInsurance.com (NASDAQ:EHTH), the median cost of the five cheapest plans was only $92.

 

In other words, for the typical 25-year-old male non-smoking Californian, Obamacare will drive premiums up by between 100 and 123 percent.

 

...

 

Obamacare’s impact on 40-year-olds is steepest in the San Francisco Bay area, especially in the counties north of San Francisco, like Marin, Napa, and Sonoma. Also hard-hit are Orange and San Diego counties.

 

 

...

 

How did Lee and his colleagues explain the sleight-of-hand they used to make it seem like they were bringing prices down, instead of up? “It is difficult to make a direct comparison of these rates to existing premiums in the commercial individual market,” Covered California explained in last week’s press release, “because in 2014, there will be new standard benefit designs under the Affordable Care Act.” That’s a polite way of saying that Obamacare’s mandates and regulations will drive up the cost of premiums in the individual market for health insurance.

 

But rather than acknowledge that truth, the agency decided to ignore it completely, instead comparing Obamacare-based insurance to a completely different type of insurance product, that bears no relevance to the actual costs that actual Californians face when they shop for coverage today. Peter Lee calls it a “home run.” It’s more like hitting into a triple play.

 

...

 

So, Forbes' Avik Roy summarizes:

Supporters of Obamacare justified passage of the law because one insurer in California raised rates on some people by as much as 39 percent. But Obamacare itself more than doubles the cost of insurance on the individual market.

 

I can understand why Democrats in California would want to mislead the public on this point.

 

But journalists have a professional responsibility to check out the facts for themselves.

 

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Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:23 | 3619327 Magnum
Magnum's picture

How many millions of Californians work for the govt and get free insurance anyway?

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:25 | 3619334 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Obamacare was designed to create a health insurance oligopoly (5 companies will dominate the market) and put the peasants on Obamacare.  The peasants will get death panels and rationing. 

The insurance oligopolies will rule the rest of the market share as the fascist dictates from Washington.

 

What the fuck else is there to say?

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:46 | 3619387 dryam
dryam's picture

BTW, it's called The Affordable Care Act.  That's because if you say it over and over enough times you can hypnotize yourself into thinking white is black, and down is up.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:57 | 3619415 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

I worked for Kaiser Permanante in the mid-90s. Back then, we covered over 10 million lives and the cost for a person under age 25 with no pre-existing conditions was $59 a month. Those were the days...meh.

 

EDIT: I need to learn to spell.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:22 | 3619470 kareninca
kareninca's picture

Ah, and Kaiser Northern California does a fine job in meeting health guidelines for its patients!

I know this because the last time I went for my female exam, the nurse (who is from a developing nation) took my blood pressure and it was REALLY high (due to the SSRIs prescribed by my Kaiser psychiatrist, who is also from a developing nation).  So the nurse said, "let me take it another way!"  She had me hold my arm up nearly over my head, and took the measure again.  Voila!!  It was an acceptable measurement!

I mentioned this to the gynecologist (who is one of the few who is not from overseas), and she was kind of embarassed.  But she didn't fix any of the readings to reflect reality.

Win, Kaiser!!!

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:58 | 3619538 Bear
Bear's picture

Exact same thing happen to me at Kaiser in Hawaii. I think that must be standard procedure. You are infirmed until you have to use the services, then you're just fine

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:16 | 3619616 mophead
mophead's picture

None of you guys get it, it's transitory.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:24 | 3619622 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

We have to pass the bill so you can see whats in it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 03:03 | 3619670 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Third world skill-level workers (even if EVERY adult worked) can have free first world medicine?

Not possible.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:04 | 3619917 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

25 y/o non-smoking male

Try to find one of them in large portions of northern California or other locales.  Or is medicinal smoking not considered smoking.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 11:01 | 3620207 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

during the housing pop, i imagined millions saying "fuck it" and not sending in mortgage payments...

I'm getting a similar vibe here...Suppose they threw a fascist health care system and nobody came?

all i see is a CLUSTERFUCK coming down the tracks...

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:37 | 3619726 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

And the lies and corruption keep spreading- scary stuff!

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:37 | 3619725 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

A good, old school BP exam could take a hour. Sitting , standing, left arm up, after a bit of exercise....

And then it would be nice to have it done multiple tines , over a few months.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:55 | 3619734 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"But she didn't fix any of the readings to reflect reality."

And you didn't insist?  Are you a stupid bitch?  Your negative association of people from overseas origin with incompetence or corruption, along with the implicit racism of your tone, suggest that you might be a bitch.  Accepting medical care and, especially, drug presciptions from people whom you condescend with your worldview seems possibly pretty stupid.  Btw, why are you on SSRIs in the first place?  Might it be because you're an unstable, crazy, stupid bitch?  Take your stank twat and stank twat stories of what a sheeple you are, and GTFO of here.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 08:23 | 3619832 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Tell us how you really feel!

She should count herself lucky the nurse didnt try to put a leech on her cooter. It's common overseas.

Wed, 06/05/2013 - 12:36 | 3626587 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"Tell us how you really feel!"

Good laugh from you, thanks.  I had a strong suspicion that last comment would net me a few more reds than greens, but, hey, I still think MDB is good comedy, too.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:08 | 3619440 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

My dad's policy started rising directly after this law was passed. He complained to the insurer but they repeatedly explained it was to cover costs of Obamacare. It has risen 48% since that time just a couple of years ago.

 

He may have to drop his insurane altogether soon. Can't afford it.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:17 | 3619558 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

Are you saying that the Affordable Care Act had nothing to do with making healthcare affordable? God damn you George Bush!

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:25 | 3619578 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

Let's get real.......

If my insurance premium went from $100/month to $200/month I could give a shit. What has already happened is that it went from $800/month to over $1400/month, the deductable went up, the co-pay went up, the drug benefit went up and so on and so forth.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:54 | 3619739 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

I'm sorry, this is nothing too personal, but all can hear in this thread so far is, "I live in the USuckAss--WAAHHH!!  I live in the--WAAAHHH!!!"

It's a big world, folks; if you care to save yourselves, get out of its fascist shitholes.  Or don't, but the complaining is fucking ridiculous when there are so many other options.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:34 | 3619783 Acet
Acet's picture

Most people don't have what it takes to emigrate.

As an emigrant myself, I can understand that: it's one of the biggest changes one can make in one's life and it's not something for everybody.

Thus, it's not a solution.

Wed, 06/05/2013 - 12:41 | 3626603 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"Most people don't have what it takes to emigrate."

And thank goodness because if all those hordes of sheeple did suddenly head for the exit, all of us in the rest of the world would be flooded with shit.

"Thus, it's not a solution."

But it is for me.  Bottom line.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 08:06 | 3619820 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

The IRS follows American Citizens demanding they pay taxes everywhere they go in this world. This requires the American Citizen to not only leave his/her country but to renounce his/her citizenship as well. Immigrants that come to the USA not only keep their citizenship to their country of birth and can attain dual citizenship in the USA. This allows the  Immigrant to come to the USA, take it's wealth, and return to his/her country of origin and live a very good life.

Wed, 06/05/2013 - 12:44 | 3626615 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Your options are not so narrow as you seem to imply, friend, nor are the cards stacked against you.  The world is a pretty free place, actually, when you make the choice to set yourself free.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:15 | 3619939 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

In other words....when tyranny begins to metastasize in your homeland....run. Then when you get to another homeland and tyranny begins to metastasize there as well....run again. And so on.

Running is not an option for alot of people. Soon enough, the complaining will shift to action. In the end, it will be up to each individual to decide whether to stay, fight, and possibly die....or kneel before whatever shape this growing tyranny takes when it decides the time is ripe for hardcore squashing of all dissent.

Wed, 06/05/2013 - 12:47 | 3626630 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Basically, I suppose I agree.  Moving, though stressful and inconvenient, seems, to me, a relatively small cost compared to living under tyranny.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 08:30 | 3619843 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

I would like to meet the person paying $200 a month for healthcare, and see what they are getting

My Employer is supposedly paying 15k for my family plan (ha ha).  For my portion of the plan I am paying for the plan about $900 a month... not so bad... right?

800 dollar per person deductable...... 80 / 20 split on reasonable and customary after that.  $40 a month per script.  No Vision, No dental etc....

This is what a 25K a year family plan looks like now.  (Yes I know my employer is lying).  I cant wait to see what happens to next years premiums.

 

 

 

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 03:59 | 3619686 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Government solutions...the gift that keeps on giving.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:49 | 3619406 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Its NAZIcare with similiar final objectives ('solutions')

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:04 | 3619434 Bear
Bear's picture

NaziCare ... Keep it cheap, Kill 'em soon

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:49 | 3619407 Bear
Bear's picture

No ... Obamacare was designed to create so much havoc that the sheeple will beg (on their knees) for .gov to create a savior-single-payer system

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:07 | 3619648 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"No ... Obamacare was designed to create so much havoc that the sheeple will beg (on their knees) for .gov to create a savior-single-payer system"

Hello bear.

Yes, that darn Hegelian dialectic is a son-of-a-gun, eh!

CHANGE!!!

Stupid is as stupid does.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 04:05 | 3619688 CutOut
CutOut's picture

HEART, we are still waiting for an explanation but you refuse to respond. Why ?

ZH readers are curious as to why HEART intentionally posts disinfo such as Boston bombing fake injuries / fake blood / crisis actors garbage which is 100% DISINFORMATION.

http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?name=the+heart
Boston bomb disinfo reposted again by heart #3616167

I have screen caps of your Boston bombing fake injuries / fake blood / crisis actors disinfo posts.

......................................................

ZH is being targeted by FedGov spambots & human operatives saturating the comment sections with garbage and disinformation in addition to down voting certain posters.

They are not harmless trolls, they are professional operatives attempting to undermine and discredit ZH via multi nic sock puppets.

Attacking this post by constant down voting speaks for itself: the shills have exposed themselves.
Case closed.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:53 | 3620013 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

How do you KNOW the hoax theory is fake? And I'm no shill. 

Actually, how the fuck do you explain this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8yEat5_8xI&bpctr=1370269387

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 04:00 | 3619687 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

If you think it's expensive now, just wait till it's free.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:12 | 3619450 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Maybe they will ration and death panel the peasants, the ones who voted for free stuff, to death.  Then we can liquidate the criminals and traitors and get back to what America was meant to be instead of the 'Merica crap.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:21 | 3619472 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"Obamacare was designed to create a health insurance oligopoly (5 companies will dominate the market) and put the peasants on Obamacare.  The peasants will get death panels and rationing. "

No

Obamacare was created to collapse the system...

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:43 | 3619514 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

Probably written by Cloward and Piven

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:28 | 3619960 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Yes, everything with their stink on it is designed to overwhelm the status quo in a destructive manner.

They learned that blowing things up would never work, but imploding them will.

They successfully bankrupt New York many years ago.  Successful test completed... now onto bigger fish.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:35 | 3619587 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

single payer was the eventual goal, yes, but i don't think they meant to get there by demonstrating breathtaking incompetence.  they were genuinely hoping a fascist system could be installed where some private companies "competed" under govt mandates that dictated almost every aspect of the business (witness the cap on marketing expenditures), and that the system would at least be somewhat stable.  eventually the argument would be made that the insurance companies were needless middlemen extracting their needless tithe.  since every insurance company had to operate under regulations that micromanaged everything, there would be no differentiation amongst the insurers - they would become utlities.   and so, hey voters, why don't we save you an amount equivalent to the entire industry's profits and excess salaries, and just do it ourselves?  after all, every single business practice is codified into law so innovative private sector thinking has no benefit.

but what you're seeing now, and will really see starting in Oct (when the state exchanges are all supposed to go live) is incompetence on such a massive scale that plans for single payer are now empty dreams.   even most Obamabots would rather go back to a semi-free market than buy the argument that Obamacare only failed the because govt didn't have 100% control.

obama, reid, pelosi, and baucus genuinely believed this monstrosity could live long enough to bridge the gap between fascistic and communist control.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:37 | 3619632 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

JPM Hater001     "No

Obamacare was created to collapse the system..."

 

Comment:

I agree with you with the notiion that liberalism collapses the system. Obamacare and other methods are just the tools. And we must keep in mind that it isn't just democrats that are the liberals. Republicans have had several opportunities to defund Obamacare but haven't. If it weren't Obamacare, it would be some other liberal tool that liberals would use.

Obamacare is a policy. It is the ideology that is the problem.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 17:20 | 3621497 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

I down voted you b/c like a lot of the other dupes on here, you are associating what is being done here as "liberalism".  It is most certainly not.  It is "corporatism" or more correctly fascism (as Mussolini most correctly described it) - a merger of corporate and state power.  A bunch of politically connected middlemen (FIRE sector) using their friends in government to extract every last dime out of the peons.  But oh no, there are still so many here who still see in terms of left/right blue/red as if Mitt the shit wouldn't have done something with the exact same effect under a different pretense.  You did at least notice "Republicans have had several opportunities to defund Obamacare but haven't" - hmm wonder why.  Could it be that the money gets extracted to their very same friends in the FIRE sector but allows "the other guy" to be a target of most of peons' ire.  Convenient, isn't it?

You have half a clue.  Just use your brain a little more and you might get the idealogy correct.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:29 | 3619584 Fail2Deliver
Fail2Deliver's picture

YES WE CAN! ....pay more for health insurance...YES WE CAN!

 

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:08 | 3619924 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Yes We Can.  But Lets Not.

I rest my case.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:03 | 3619605 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"What the fuck else is there to say?"

The American Medical Mafia....

At a point all this corruption is just gonna blow up in our faces.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:57 | 3619353 ACP
ACP's picture

I just had a vision of a 2,000 pound mosquito sucking the life out of a 100 pound human.

 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:22 | 3619476 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Did someone mention my wife...

I'm gonna pay for this comment some day...

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:16 | 3619562 olto
olto's picture

Hey, ACP

Where can you find a hundred pound adult in this country?

Maybe, a twenty thousand pound mosquito and a thousand pound human is possible

BTW, is this insurance mandatory?

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:42 | 3619729 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

You will soon find plenty of 100# people at Camp FEMA.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:45 | 3619396 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

So enightened, liberal Californians are going to be bent over and pounded (without lube) by this plan they supported with their votes?

There is a God.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:20 | 3619571 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

My thoughts exactly. They've finally run out of other peoples money. Now they must use their own.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:18 | 3619617 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~"Obamacare To Double Cost Of Insurance For Average Californian"~

How, just! How proper! We Californians voted for these weasels like Obama and Pelosi. We so richly desreve all the evil we get for our sins. Serves us f**kin' right. For the record, no one I voted for got elected this last go-around. Not a single one. I am also seriously contemplating moving out of the state, though I've been here since 1977. If Brown signs this new set of gun-rights limiting crap, I'm gone.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:30 | 3619628 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Ditto for me save 1975. unfortunately my second choice is nearly as bad (Colorado)

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:06 | 3619437 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

if my offer to clinton to broker the sale of this la raza community to the chinese back in the 90s would have been accepted we could have cut this land off the mainland and into the sea by now...couple problems solved.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:34 | 3619663 piceridu
piceridu's picture

"Today in America there are nearly twice as many people working for the government (22.5 million) than in all of manufacturing (11.5 million). This is an almost exact reversal of the situation in 1960, when there were 15 million workers in manufacturing and 8.7 million collecting a paycheck from the government.It gets worse. More Americans work for the government than work in construction, farming, fishing, forestry, manufacturing, mining and utilities combined. We have moved decisively from a nation of makers to a nation of takers. Nearly half of the $2.2 trillion cost of state and local governments is the $1 trillion-a-year tab for pay and benefits of state and local employeesIs it any wonder that so many states and cities cannot pay their bills?

Every state in America today except for two—Indiana and Wisconsin—has more government workers on the payroll than people manufacturing industrial goods."Consider California, which has the highest budget deficit in the history of the states. The not-so Golden State now has an incredible 2.4 million government employees—twice as many as people at work in manufacturing."

http://www.topix.com/forum/state/ca/TG5QS6TN2977KU7UI


Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:41 | 3619728 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

OMG, that means there are only about 47 people with jobs in the whole country.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 08:46 | 3619870 rogeliokh
rogeliokh's picture

Millions of Americans uninsured today due to the fact that American Healthcare is unaffordable, how rising prices

can help them to get insurance? I guess mostly simply going to get Medicare.

Why simple blood test should worth 300$ in 21 Century? This is ridiculous. Root Canal in Portugal cost 30-50 Euro in USA $500-$800 WTF is wrong with that? How come people should work 1-2 weeks to fix 1 tooth? Bizarre.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:35 | 3619973 artless
artless's picture

NOTHING is free. Someone, somewhere is paying. The California public workers are just the "more equal animals" for now until, of course, it all blows up and they have nothing.

 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:25 | 3619329 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

it's going to raise the premiums by 146% for the 7 californians who don't work for the government.

nice job magnum that was close

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:26 | 3619331 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

 

 

" Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. " -Universal Declaration of Human Rights, XXI,(2). 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:47 | 3619402 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

The way I read it no one should have it for free or subsidized. That'd be equal, wouldn't it?

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:01 | 3619425 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

It's your right and your country, you decide.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:26 | 3619337 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

This is insane. I'm basically 25 (actually 22) yr. old white male non smoker guy. 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:32 | 3619361 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

Try being 60 year old white female non smoker... limited income, but still don't qualify for any of obummers 80 welfare give aways... not the SNAP, not medical, not housing, not cash.. nothing.  But I can double or triple my health care premiums... 'cause I'm higher risk than you as a young whipper snapper.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:38 | 3619377 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

This is just so criminal. How much more of this are we who want the 19th century laissez faire America of peace and prosperity back going to take?

Seems like to everyone I talk to, though, I'm just a tin foil hatter. Nevermind goverment agencies buying enough hollow point ammo to put at least 5 bullets in every American, never mind the perverted TSA, never mind the IRS and Benghazi (which go WAY beyond 'incompetence' as this was not 'spontaneous'). 

I'm in a tough spot myself as I have to make a career of it myself, most likely as a cmdtys and futes trader here in an urban area, when I'd like to just go Galt. I'll do what I can, buy PMs, lead, etc.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:45 | 3619398 Bear
Bear's picture

The perverted 'unionized' TSA and perverted 'unionized' IRS ... what the hell do these bloated-salary a-wipes need a union for? Oh, yeah their employer is some kind of niggardly Scrooge.  

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:46 | 3619399 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

You are right FreeMktFisherMN but, this is what happens when people trust liberals and communists!!  When the blacks, Latinos looking for a handout that Mexico will not give them, and the white trash liberals voted trash into power you can kiss your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness goodbye!  The first sign I see that people are finally fed up, I am ready to go take my country back with the rest of the American patriots.  Time to say goodbye to liberals and get them the fuck out of our lives. 

 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:59 | 3619417 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Its not about 'liberals' - - - Thomas Jefferson was a liberal, that is one who believed in Liberty. The language has been co-opted and abused. Up is down and Down is up. -Americans have been dumbed down in the public 'schools' and know very little about their history or the founding principles of the nation. -- The system of Big Govt/Big Business/Big Banks living off the rest of the people they enslave is fascism. And the so called 'liberals' and 'conservatives' are all for it. They steal power and wealth . . . we lose our Liberty.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:09 | 3619442 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

it's all semantics. Classical liberal=libertarian=old fashioned (non-interventionist/laissez faire) conservative. 

modern 'liberal'=statist=pretty much communist='progressive'

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:24 | 3619480 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

This is the place where progressives scored their first victory - stealing the word liberal for their own.  Fighting to win means fighting on all fronts.  They must be discredited and we need to take our language back.

It isn't semantics.  They are not liberals.  They are tyrants and theives.  Stop giving in to them.  Stop using the words they want you to use.  Call them what they are, not what they are not.  Obamacare is not affordable.  He is not a liberal.  Get it?

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:34 | 3619498 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

I hear you, man. Heck whenever I mention 'liberal' as in the modern definition, I always put quotes around it and explain how they really are the statists. 

 

The political spectrum to me ranges from where I reside, anarcho capitalism, to statism. It doesn't matter whether it is socialism, fascism, whatever. It's all control/confiscation of wealth, so I don't get bogged down in that.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:25 | 3619624 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

When the carriers of Europe's disease - progressivism - came in droves to the US in the 19th and early 20th centuries, they faced a choice of two main parties: Republican/merchantilist, which was not a good fit, or the Democrat/libertarian, which was not merchantilist nor for a rigid class structure. So they gravitated to the Dem party and, as their numbers continued to increase in the population, took it over.

If you check out Jonathan Haidt's research on morality, libertarians emphasize liberty over the other five moral spheres, liberals favor care, fairness, and liberty over loyalty, authority, and sanctity. and conservatives rank them all about equal.

When the progressives took over control of the Dem party, some of the libertarians stayed, left-libertarians, others moved to the Repub party as libertarian-conservatives, and true libertarians became homeless.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:11 | 3619762 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Actually after the failed communist/socialist (the terms meant the same thing at that time) revolutions in Europe in 1848  - many European socialists fled to America. The political party that they embraced in their new land was the Republicans. They were attracted to the big, central government theme - which could be used as an instrument to spread communism. They were of major importance in electing Lincoln. Several of them served as generals in the union army and one was an assistant secretary of war in the Lincoln administration.  (He was a railroad lawyer and in favor of big government/big business cronyism - but there is no evidence that Lincoln was a socialist).  Websearch "Lincoln's Marxists" to find out more. The big move to the left in the Dem party got going with FDR.  Its all about Big government and the destruction of the power of the individual states and the people, by people who get off on controlling others lives.  And now we have the monstrosity of a central federal government in D.C. that tries to dictate every aspect of everyone's lives, including how they choose to care for their own health. And 'government' is the only growth sector. People have been dumbed down in the mandated public 'schools' so that they are unaware of whats been done to them. Mandatory public indoctrination is another communist platform - its to control the next generation.

P.S. - Anusocracy - btw, I didnt down arrow you.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:50 | 3620008 marathonman
marathonman's picture

I think the lurch left for the Dem's took place a lot earlier than FDR....  Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat after all. 

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 12:18 | 3620452 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

marathonman: "I think the lurch left for the Dem's took place a lot earlier than FDR.... Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat after all."

Yes, youre right about Wilson. He pushed the globalist agenda and got America into a completely unnecessary war after promising the opposite.

IMO the 'left' and 'right' labels are just tools used by the psychopaths/sociopaths to divide and divert the citizenry.  They are after profit and power. Most of us don't get that these criminals will say and do anything to get these things.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:47 | 3619520 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

In reality they are Luciferian vampire Globalists, everything else is just a front

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:13 | 3619752 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Yes . . . very true. Its abuse of language, and actually all the various 'isms' are nothing but scams used by criminals to get over on everyone.

Young men die defending such criiminal lies.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:29 | 3619627 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The conclusion of the Liberal train of thought is actually Welfarism. Socialism comes from Liberal ideology.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 06:43 | 3619756 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The banksters have destroyed the value of peoples money - their earnings & savings - by over 97% through money printing. Taxes and debt take much of what's left. They have raped and plundered the nation's people, most of whom are completely unaware of what has been done to them.

The plan now is to completely bankrupt people so they become dependent and easily controlled.

This is not about 'right' versus 'left'/ 'Dem' versus 'Repub'.  Republican administrations have spent more on what they derisively call 'entitlements' than Dem administrations.  The politicians are paid off errand boys.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:45 | 3619996 artless
artless's picture

Wong. Socialism come from Marx. The current form is almost worse BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IMPLEMENT IT. Sodilaism and Communism has always been a utopian fanstasy. More of a philosphic excercise than an true viable socioeconomic system. What is referred to as Liberalism (read a little Mises for that) today has nothing to do with the original meaning. Let's call it what it is - fascism.

The Progressives stole the vocabulary and went to town instituting the aspects of Hitler's and Mussolini's ideas that they admired and could accomplish. Blame Wilson, Both Roosevelts, LBJ, et al and then give abig shout out to the shitbag mass murdering racist clown Lincoln who set the foundation for all that was to come.

Keep falling for the scam of left vs right conservative vs liberal and the result will be the same. If you notice that the ones with the power don't ever change regardless who is elected you might beging to understand.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:10 | 3619556 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

C and S Americans fucking love socialism-it's what they know,expect, and want here in the US- it's completely incompatible w/ the original ideals this country was established on.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:37 | 3619727 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Take the white out and you will be eligible.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 08:33 | 3619851 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Simple solution discover that you are either 1/64 black or American Indian, and suggest you convert to Islam... Problem solved.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:12 | 3619448 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

Oh, I'm sure it's going to be way worse for others. I just hate that even if I maintain health I still with these collectivist policies am on the hookfor others' Popeyes and Dunkin Donut diets, since it's basically a subsidy from the healthy to the unhealthy.

 

And have you all seen the diabetes #s and prediabetes? People in their teens are showing heart disease already. This is going to be overwhelming.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:36 | 3619724 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I'm going long on pharmacy robberies and doctor kidnappings.

 

 

"Just fix it, Doc, an' we'll let you go. Promise."

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:27 | 3619340 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

Blood is boiling right now. This is so insane

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:29 | 3619348 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I pay almost $1,500 a month for health insurance. you don't know blood boiling.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:40 | 3619365 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

I hear you, man. It's just another another astonishing mile marker on the road to serfdom. Health care is one of the few industries where tech. increases cause prices to go up, and quality of provision goes down. all thanks to government. They've fooled people into thinking health care is 'different' and 'too important' to be left to caveat emptor free markets.  

 

 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:17 | 3619461 ACP
ACP's picture

If it's that much, why not just do what the illegals do and go to the emergency room for everything and give a false name?

Dan Sanchez.

You are an illegal alien who was born in Mexico, went to an English school, and whose parents died leaving you nothing, so you had to go to the US for opportunity.

Problem solved. Just don't sign anything.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:00 | 3619597 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

My wife's is an ER nurse in D'Bronx. People do this ALL DAY LONG. One chick took an ambulance ride to get close to the deli for cigs. It's wrong, but Hell!! Maybe it'll collapse the system a few years earlier for quicker reset.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:37 | 3619375 seek
seek's picture

Dayum, I hope you have family on that. I pay about $400/mo for a pretty shitty plan with a $5K deductible. I miss the days when you could actually get a catastrophic plan.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:56 | 3619536 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

lack of catastrophic plans (which is a result of states larding up their mandates, so guys are covered for mammograms and women covered for prostate exams), and the outlawing of interstate commerce in healthcare, are the two most infuriating conditions imposed by our govt betters.  its completely insane that health insurance is not insurance in the true sense of the word, but rather pre-paid coverage.  and because no one pays for health services out of their own pocket there's absolutely no market dynamics on the consumer level - i can't tell you whether an MRI costs $500 or $5000, and i don't care because i'll never buy it directly.  as rudy guliani has mentioned, if car insurance operated the way health insurance does then an oil change would cost $200 and no one would be aware of it on the consumer level.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:59 | 3619419 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

$8500 / year for the two of us, late 50s, non-smokers, basic plan.

We are not in California!

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:30 | 3619491 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Wisconsin education association company" (WEAC) health insurance young family of four healthy all the way around - $14000 a year...

Of course we busted the system in 2010 but there is this haunting quote...

"I'm back!"

REDRUM bitchez...

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:13 | 3619452 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the drum beats slowly but steadily the death knell of the American middle class.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:24 | 3619479 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

Yep. Pretty much might as well allocate one class as the 'government class'. 

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:35 | 3619976 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:38 | 3619506 Bear
Bear's picture

Do you have a co-pay for blood letting?

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:53 | 3619533 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"I pay almost $1,500 a month for health insurance..."

Which means you make some money, which they want to bleed out of you via fear of bankruptcy.

I would ask "why do you bother" but maybe I already answered my own question.

I'm not criticizing you, just pointing out that this law is designed to bleed more assets out of the middle class and funnel it to the insurance and corporate healthcare cartels.

It has nothing to do with affordable healthcare or improving healthcare, only enriching the elites further and crushing free markets.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:55 | 3619534 knukles
knukles's picture

Finally.  Somebody who gets it.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:54 | 3620015 artless
artless's picture

Almost gets it. See below.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:38 | 3619634 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

Bingo! Now what is so hard to understand about that?

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:26 | 3619773 Binko
Binko's picture

Exactly true. Our entire nation, at this point, consists of a number of politically powerful corporate cartels who have constructed complex legal structures for extorting money from the public while erradicating any possibility of true growth or innovation. 

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 11:12 | 3620262 laomei
laomei's picture

Screw that robbery... take the $1500, stash it.  If something comes up pay for it, if you can't afford it, charge it on a CC, or multiple CCs.  Then Default and hello bankruptcy.  Rinse wash repeat, it's the way of the world now.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:10 | 3619651 natty light
natty light's picture

So Health "Insurance" Helps You, Right? Wrong

"Folks, wake the hell up -- you are being and have been scammed:"

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:52 | 3620011 artless
artless's picture

That's 18,000 / year. Have you even spent that amount over the course of your whole life? You do not have "insurance" you have a "health plan" much like the $1500/month condo fees that folks here in NYC pay to have some serf stand at their building entry or carry their garbage to the curb while the building owners just sit back and laugh their asses off that their TENANTS are that fucking stupid becasue it's basically free money in their pockets after paying out all the expenses and salaries.

Pay cash brother. And if the shit hits the fan have savings (I can think of about 18 large a year you might be able to find) or use crdit or just fuck the system and drop on their doorstep.

I feel for you. It is extremely difficult to break out of the system that uses fear and coercion to bleed you dry.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:10 | 3619650 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

If the republicans had a single testicle between them all, they'd be mentioning this every time they open their mouths. Sadly, they don't have any better ideas (like how about banning comprehensive insurance (catastrophic only) and instituting medical savings accounts? No one gets car insurance that covers oil changes, and no one cares how much someone else is paying for their goodies; you have to make it personal. Of course we'll still pay every dime for the less fortunate - you know, the ones with all that 'skin in the game'.)

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:21 | 3619772 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The Repub politicians are on the same team as the Dem politicians. They pursue the same big govt/big banks/big corporation fascist objectives. The 'us' versus 'them' act is nothing but a circus to deceive people into believing that its a 'government of the people, by the people, for the people'.

It doesnt Have to be this way. But a helluva lot more Americans would have to wake from their slumber to make a difference.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:29 | 3619344 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

"But journalists have a professional responsibility to check out the facts for themselves." - -

We haven't had "professional journalists" in decades, hell the young people have no idea what that is and most old timers have forgotten...

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:31 | 3619351 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

sure there are. Just look beyond the mainstream ones.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:29 | 3619345 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

WTF??

How could this possibly be?

Somebody must be attempting to earn a profit somewhere.

I smell a thief!

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:32 | 3619356 booboo
booboo's picture

Mission Accomplished 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:38 | 3619379 Bear
Bear's picture

He should have announced this at the headquarters of the 'carriers'

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:32 | 3619358 traditionalfunds
traditionalfunds's picture

Not an apples to apples comparison. eHealth doesn't sell long term comprehensive policies. They don't sell to people with pre-existing conditions. People on ZH tend to see right through corporate shills and their talking points. If you want to hate on Obama then go ahead but remember we understand math here.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:13 | 3619652 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

There's nothing good about Obama or his intentions. If you think he's out to improve the lives of taxpayers - the only people with 'skin in the game' - you're an idiot.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:33 | 3619723 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"You didn't catch that."

 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:32 | 3619359 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

More than that

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/31/how-obamacare-disincentivizes-inexpensiv

When you subsidize something, you get more of it. Obamacare is set to spend about $23 billion on private insurance subsidies next year, and more than $130 billion annually by 2021. And, so we’ll end up as a nation with a lot more health insurance.

But there’s one type of insurance that Obamacare doesn’t subsidize: the relatively inexpensive, high-deductible insurance plans that can make a lot of sense for a lot of individuals, especially the young and healthy. And that’s going to create a significant disincentive to utilize those types of plans, explains Jed Graham of Investor’s Business Daily:

For a bit less, $137 a month (after subsidies), a 21-year-old can get bronze coverage [Obamacare's lowest coverage level for non-catastrophic insurance]. Yet while the price is more realistic, the deductible of $5,000 may be so high that young people wonder whether the price is worth the sacrifice.

More good news: Those under 30 will have yet one more option, buying catastrophic coverage. These policies come with an even higher deductible of $6,400, but they are less expensive.

But here's the final piece of bad news: Because such policies come with no federal subsidies, workers earning 250% of the poverty level would pay the exact same $137 a month out of pocket for the cheapest catastrophic coverage as they would for the cheapest bronze-level plan.

The existence of these sorts of incentives will probably drive up overall health spending: The evidence is pretty strong that people with more insurance utilize more health care services (although it’s far less evident that they get commensurate improvements in health). It will also drive up costs for taxpayers, as more individuals like Graham describes are likely to take the publicly subsidized insurance option rather than the catastrophic plan at the same price. 

What this really does is highlight how absurd it was for President Obama and others to suggest that the health law would bring down insurance premiums for most people. Even with expanded insurance pools, a big part of the point of the law was not only to get more people to buy insurance coverage, but to get people to buy more insurance coverage — broader and more expensive plans designed to please folks like Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius who think that catastrophic insurance, the kind that's actually focused on protection from major financial shock, somehow doesn't count.

 

So basically those low cost plans are not so low cost when you factor in the deductable if you actually have to use them. And what is even worse than deductable is pretty much the same as what doctors are charging for cash concierge service which will guarantee you a timely appointment and care if you pay cash up front for the year while with these plans no doctor is going to see you in a timely manner if at all. The only place you are getting timely care is at the hospital emergency room and you'll have to wait in line behind all the illegals that use the emergency room instead of private doctors for basic care.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:22 | 3619952 DOT
DOT's picture

Remember, Health Care Insurance is a basic human Right.  The government in it's wisdom has decreed that it shall be made available. Taxes are required (not premiums) to assure coverage of all of the current population.

Pay your taxes.

Eat your peas.

 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:36 | 3619372 Bear
Bear's picture

I pay for Aetna now ($400) per month ... I am waiting to see what I pay in 2014, since the Federal (Smuck) Government forced Aetna out of California.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:37 | 3619373 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And remember that thing about everyone has to be covered regardless of pre-existing conditions.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gao-hhs-already-rationing-enrollment-oba...

A pre-existing condition health insurance program established by Obamacare is already straining its own budget and, to control costs, the administration’s Health and Human Services Department (HHS) has stopped enrolling any new people in the program, according to an audit by the General Accountability Office (GAO).

In addition, to further control spending, HHS has directed the program to shift more of the costs onto the current enrollees, thus raising the out-of-pocket health care expenses for the people with pre-existing conditions.

“Finally, due to growing concerns about the rate of PCIP [Pre-existing Condition Insurance Program] spending, in February 2013, CCIIO [under HHS] suspended PCIP enrollment to ensure the appropriated funding would be sufficient to cover claims for current enrollees through the end of the program,” states the GAO report, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act: Enrollment and Spending in the Early Retiree Reinsurance and Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan Programs.

The rationing or denial of health care coverage in the marketplace for people with pre-existing conditions, or insurers charging higher premiums to people with pre-existing conditions were among the reasons cited by President Barack Obama and most congressional Democrats for implementing Obamacare, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care.

Not only that but in some cases they are lowing reimbursement rates for doctors to control enrollment costs. I'm telling you now the only health care professionals seeing you in a timely manner if at all on an obamacare plan is going to be a hospital.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:38 | 3619378 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

Perfecto!  I hope it quadruples for every person in California.  You voted this communist into power, now live with it!   Be sure to re-elect Pelosi and Fienstein too!!

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:03 | 3619430 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes they did!

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:19 | 3619465 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the problem is not 100% of Californians voted for this nitwit- many good and decent people are getting sucked into the vortex of destruction and insanity. we were warned 250 years ago by wise men that the majority voting for instant gratification in their own self-interest would eventually come to pass- we are now living in that era.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:29 | 3619493 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

exactly. There are conservative, mind my own business people everywhere. As the one guy said, though, 'evil triumphs when good men do nothing.'

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:04 | 3619549 seek
seek's picture

Seriously, they should relocate if possible. Cali is way ahead of the curve when it comes to the death spiral.

I've talked online with two soon-to-be AZ residents escaping Cali just this week. The good news is unlike the previous Californication exodus that shifted many states left, I think the new exodus is going to be people leaving expiicity on political (and financial safety) grounds, rather than cashing out on home appreciation and living the good life elsewhere while fucking up the local economy. These types will be an asset come post financial reset.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:13 | 3619559 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

The Mexs taking over AZ will turn it into Cali within 10 years- their worship of socialism will spread like a cancer as their candidates get put into office.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:44 | 3619995 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

If you've not left or are not nearing completion on you plans to leave that shit stain of a state, then you are in fact supporting it, and its Fascist policies.

You are voting with your feet-by standing and taking it instead of fleeing.

Don't try your retard whine of 'we didn't vote for this' on the 'hedge as it won't hold up; by remaining in Kalifornia you are complicit, you are an enabler, and may you and yours, burn.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:04 | 3619503 SgtSchultz
SgtSchultz's picture

Yes!   And keep raising those Califoria taxes to support ANY new spending plans - no matter how ridiculous!  Oh, and keep taking away the few remaining rights of gun owners.  When the productive class finally leaves, lots of luck.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:38 | 3619507 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Well if your RINO boys in AZ - scum McShame and Flake pass amnesty - you will be just as f*cked-ed-ed as Calif.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:07 | 3619551 seek
seek's picture

Actually, since senators have zero input on state level politics, let's rephrase that: we will ALL be fucked if amnesty passes, nationally.

I'm not sure what the hell happened with Flake. He was with the program when he was in the house and then has drifted into RINO land since getting the senate. Wonder what he was promised?

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:15 | 3619560 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

"Boys on Film"

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:30 | 3619722 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

and "dead Girls on Film."

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:40 | 3619589 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I heard that Flake is a rich kid Mormon.  I generally like Mormons but when it comes to business, a lot of them have a weird ethical blind spot.  The Dems will not run strong candidates against RINOs if the RINOs sell out.  

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:11 | 3619611 seek
seek's picture

He is, and he came from a heavily Mormon district, though that same district is also heavily freedom-oriented, and his early voting record in the house was pretty libertarian-ish. That's why his (admittedly) short record in the senate is so weird, it's like it pains him to vote the way he did in the house. His handling the the gun control debate post Newton was truly bizarre. McCain has been a lost cause for a while, but even he seemed to have a dramatic shift right after the presidential run.

It really makes me wonder what events/information/threats/rewards they get exposed to that makes them turn so obviously.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:29 | 3619720 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

McPain got re-elected, but next year is a chance to get his butt-buddy, Miss Graham, out of office.

You guys in SC better get on the stick.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 10:00 | 3620025 marathonman
marathonman's picture

They justed voted super-majorities of these kleptocrats at the state level.  California is beyond redemption. 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:43 | 3619390 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

The public employees say too bad . You all could have been public employees too.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:22 | 3619477 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

The union firefighters that make $100k+ locally had a shit fit when they started to have to kick in 50 FUCKING $ A MONTH to their insurance on their last contract.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 23:35 | 3619499 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

Otto, you're in Illinois aren't you? I'm from MN but in Evanston now finishing up school and doing a trading internship at a place near Wrigleyville. Did you see how pension reform got shelved again?

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 00:04 | 3619546 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Yes- they are kicking the can because the fucking unions in this state run it and any cut to their gravy train will be felt in the elections. At least the gay marriage got shot down. I'm also impressed how the Dem gun grabbers are getting their asses kicked. I think that that dyke L Madigan will be guv unless the repubs get it going with a real ass-kicking social and fiscal conservative- wishful thinking. There are a lot of conservatives in this state that would get out to vote for a good candidate.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:20 | 3619657 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

Yeah, it's same in MN. Most of state very red on political map; just the Twin Cities and Iron Range (unions) vote liberal. Tyranny of the majority.

 

I seriously cannot believe what is going on in Illinois. I heard $17 million/day with this pension problem. 

 

It's absurd. I saw on the local news highway patrols retiring in mid 50s and they double dip and get paid elsewhere while picking up pensions. It's all corrupt.

 

Fortunately conceal and carry is going to be allowed. I'm sure they'll appeal it and try Chicago style tactics. 

 

 

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:32 | 3619781 Binko
Binko's picture

When I was young everybody mocked the lamers who had to settle for government jobs. Who would have thought that 30 years later government work would be the gold standard in secure and high paid employment? Crazy to think I would be on financial easy street if only I had become a mailman. 

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:45 | 3619395 Hundred Dollar Bonus
Hundred Dollar Bonus's picture

I will just cancel my insurance, was hoping my dad wouldn't have to test my testicals, but everything has a price.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:48 | 3619405 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 All points aside. I'm expatriated> Forward

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:54 | 3619414 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

it's getting tougher and tougher to hide. I read about Estonia the other day, though. What a great story about how they took the pain and went through gasp austerity, and now have a very resilient booming economy. And this is a former Soviet republic, isn't it?

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:26 | 3619718 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, it is.

I am looking for jobs in Baku.

I figure another year and my farm will be nationalized.

Russia isn't looking bad, either.  At least Vlad isn't trying to get rid of Christianity.

Plus, he makes Dick O look like a pussy.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:23 | 3619716 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Soviet!

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:53 | 3619410 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Shit my rates have doubled in preparation for the upcoming changes. They will move up another 22% this year. If I wasn't for the fact that I'm a father of three I'd dump it entirely.

Sun, 06/02/2013 - 22:53 | 3619412 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA

You voted for him, you dumb fucks!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!