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Detroit Bankruptcy Imminent
Following the State's takeover of Detroit's finances in March, it seems the end is growing 'nigh'er for the troubled city. According to the WSJ, Kevyn Orr, Detroit's emergency manager, plans to call unions and creditors to a meeting in mid-June to lay the groundwork for a bankruptcy within a matter of months. The meeting is designed to restructure the long-struggling city's liabilities of over $17bn and is an attempt to "have a mature and sober discussion" of repayment terms following its delayed payment in April of $226 million on pensions and other obligations. Several unions said they are willing to come to the table, but believe "it's a scare tactic." Up to now, Gov. Snyder and Detroit elected officials have said they want to avoid using bankruptcy (Detroit would be the biggest muni filing ever) to clean up the city's mess. But in recent days, their positions have softened, adding that, "I don't want to go to bankruptcy, but I do know that it is a strong possibility." Mr. Orr's office confirmed it was evaluating the potential sale of prized assets such as the artwork at the Detroit Institute of Art, a collection potentially worth billions.
Via The WSJ,
Kevyn Orr, appointed by Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder in March to take control of the long-struggling city, plans to use the meeting to present a detailed restructuring plan for Detroit's liabilities, which he says total about $17 billion.
...
Over the coming weeks, Mr. Orr is expected to ask the city's largest unions, pension funds, creditors and bondholders for concessions. It is unclear whether such moves could stave off bankruptcy - or pave the way for it by serving as a template for a court-supervised reorganization.
A bankruptcy filing likely would be the largest ever by a U.S. municipality in terms of debt outstanding, surpassing that of Jefferson County, Ala.
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On average, since 2008, Detroit has spent $100 million more a year than it collected in taxes and other revenue.
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On June 15, the city is due to make a debt payment estimated at more than $30 million, according to a person familiar with the matter. It is possible Mr. Orr will decide not to make the payment to conserve cash
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Detroit had $64 million cash on hand in April but owed $226 million in payments on pensions and other obligations, forcing the city to delay paying its bills to stay afloat,
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Union representatives criticized city leaders for failing to implement cost-saving reforms. Some dismiss the idea that Mr. Orr might push Detroit into bankruptcy.
"I think it's a scare tactic," said Ed McNeil, assistant to American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 25 President Al Garrett, the city's largest union for municipal workers. "It's been something like six times that the city was going to go bankrupt. But it never happened and they never had a payless payday."
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Mayor Bing said in an interview last week, "I don't want to go to bankruptcy, but I do know that it is a strong possibility."
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Mr. Orr sharpened the debate about bankruptcy in late May when his office confirmed he was evaluating the potential sale of prized city assets, including the artwork at the Detroit Institute of Art, a collection potentially worth billions.
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First to become America's Chernobyl.
Hah ha ha ha ha ha
Coming together to "have a mature and sober discussion"....
Gotta be fuckin' kiddin' me gotta take a cut in damn pension?
Where be Obama and his stash, like a dat GMotors, Yo?
Wall Street is giddy about this. Good for another 200 points up day tomorrow.
I dunno about that but the Snake Plissken pic kicks ass
I thought he was dead?
I thought he'd be taller
Goldman Sachs has already purchased Detroit.
"Kevyn Orr, Detroit's emergency manager, plans to call unions and creditors to a meeting in mid-June to lay the groundwork for a bankruptcy within a matter of months. "
yo! mario!
man up! be like Kevyn!
there is no plan B
detroit will default, wayne county will default and hamtramck will default on their bonds.
the art and prime real estate will be bought by the same people who set this up, its a public art heist.
So who's the next AIG that will blow up when the credit default swaps, CDO's, synthetic CDO's, and other fantastic financial instruments cause the daisy chain destruction that was so awesome to behold in 2008?
artwork worth "BILLIONS"...wtf moment
One would hope the guards are paid well and are of the highest integrity ;-)
Insiders get the inside track to purchasing city assets pennies on the dollar and the taxpayers again take it in the corn-hole and are left holding the bag.
bingo.
Are there any taxpayers left in Detroit? Methinks that's part of the problem. Detroit is the result of 50+ years of liberal policies.
Yeah, can't be much left of the city either...just toss a match and walk away...
But that would wipeout the USD$ 1Billion in Detroit real estate holdings of the pensions of the Fire & Police Unions...
(Not that the same couldn't be achieved with the stroke an honest accountant's pen)
You should take a look at what the ass clowns who manage the Detroit public sector pension funds think the derivatives that they have on their books from Lehman Brothers are still worth... (when not being brought up to date on the latest accounting scams at a posh Hawaiian resort)
was it donated? now they are going to reap the benefits....for a few months, anyways.
Snake Plissken bitchez!
Obama's stash is back in the woodpile where he came from.
"I don't know, from his staaaash!"
That shit is/was classic.
$18 billion in debt? There is nothing there any more just derelict buildings, welfare leeches and misery.
Meanwhile - the Democrats and RINOs was 11-20 million illegals made citizens plus 25 million of their family members. We are watching a country committ hari kari. The Russian professor was correct when he said the USA will broeak up and implode.
Freddie, I tried to give you a thumbs up and got an error notice. Why does this happen for some comments but not others?
Freddie, install this on your computer. http://afterthedeadline.com/ It will help people take your posts seriously.
The best use for Detroit at this point is an artillery range.
Ah come on, Drone range
Artillery is so last century.
"Detroit? I heard you were dead."
Nice one, Injun-ear! +10! Excellent movie trivia knowledge!
Send ALL welfare recipients to Detroit and see how many want out (of Detroit and the welfare system).
Detroit retirees outnumber workers by over 2-1 and the ratio is growing!!!! Outrageous and the unions want MORE!
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2013/05/26/detroit-pension-woes-worsen-while-trustees-splurge-for-5500-each-for-conference-in-hawaii/
No kidding, when this city implodes it will send a shock into the muni bond market. Also if you think Detroit is the only one, think again.
i live here too, we are the beginning.
Buck
It's relatively priced in.
There will be no 'shock'
Been to the "D" many times. Detroit is the canary in the coalmine. It is "Exhibit A" for what happens when you have a complete liberal-induced breakdown of the family. A feral wasteland, devoid of any semblance of morality, decency or respect for anything or anyone.
Chicago ain't far behind.
And the craziest thing is.......wait for it......the fucking stupid ass liberal deomcraps who created this mess with their "compassion" actually blame conservatives for what is happening. Despite being repeatedly warned about what exactly has transpired.
Democratic liberal politics and economics on display (for at least 4 decades) for your edification.
The place is a feral wasteland. Not even Mad Max would go there. Neither would Jake "the Snake" Plissken, nor Rambo.
You stupid fuckers in Cali and such that think you can get away with this bullshit because of the sunshine tax....just wait. Winter is coming.
And I got plenty of popcorn.
what happened? central banking happened...
"Detroitification" is a symptom of globalization and NWO
why the city didn't go BK when GM did is beyond me
only good part about Detroit default is the domino effect and the wake-up effect for Americans everywhere
Hello! Party is over! We're broke and done spending our kids and grandkids money. It still wasn't enough.
One of their excuses why Detroit imploded was that "whites moved away."
Can you blame them? The "Whites" that is....
The "Ofeys"?
White collar jobs! Detroit is a dive, everyone moved to Troy....
and Novi
that's a declaration of failure in my book
World leading boomtown to world's biggest ghost town in a hundred years.
Thanks to our lord and master - the government.
Coincides nicely.with 100 years of tyranny under the federal.reserve.
Took only 30 years, really, although the seeds were planted earlier.
Ain't gonna be there No Mo........town.
lol You honestly think it's the Libtards fault. Dream on camper. The entire system repuke and libtard is 'broke', and even with the FED stuffing money via helicopter drops to select clients can't fill the tank enough for anything to trickle down anymore.
Glad you have popcorn because you are one of the many who are just sitting back doing nothing while the entire system is folding in on itself.
Society has shown it can survive the fed. Society can survive depressions, wars, plagues, anything.
What it cannot survive is a total lack of individual or collective morality.
The government affects you tangentially if you are decent and hardworking.
It controls your life if you are a welfare recipient.
See the difference?
If not, go to Detroit and see for yourself.
"What it cannot survive is a total lack of individual or collective morality."
Bravo! No society can survive a lack of personal responsibiity which the basis of morality. And this, fellow ZH readers, is the essence of liberatarian lifestyle. Freedom (i.e. leave me alone), competence and ability, and personal responsibility.
It's called the Model Cities Program. Model American-Communist Cities. It didn't work out so well, somehow.
"Democratic liberal politics and economics on display (for at least 4 decades) for your edification."
Idiot!
It ain't just the democrats. It was the guns and butter LBJ, Nixon, Reagan and Bush administrations that spent, spent and spent, but wouldn't tax the voters enough to pay for that spending.
"Reagan proved deficits don't matter.” -- Dick Cheney
Detroit is about to do an au contraire on that BIPARTISAN economics philosophy.
Just got back on Sunday from a week in Detroit. Grew up there. Went to visit family and some business. It's not even worth describing it unless you've seen it. Embarrassing that this country has a city like this. Very sad.
Under the new rules, I can't get banned for linking to this, can I?:
Somewhere in Detroit...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f86_1369435450
@Harold Wang:
"Embarrassing that this country has a city like this."
Harry, my boy ... our country has a hundred cities like this. The others are less photogenic, though, because they are not home to shuttered Packard plants. But, otherwise?
Maybe two hundred.
Central Africa is a shithole which never evolved past tribal culture. Fascinating to see that the descendants from that culture are reverting back to their roots several centuries later in a completely different environment. Is it genetic or is it a genuine degeneration of mankind? I don't think there are examples of caucasion people who are quasi evolving backwards as opposed to going forward. This display of tribal culture is still common in many African shitholes and no matter how many TV sets and satellite dishes the people have access to, they are not progressing.
You can get the people out of the bush but you can't get the bush out of the people.
Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore and several other places are modern testament to that.
Something else was noticeable. The apparent lack of language skills. Hard to understand if the people were speaking English or some derivative of an African English dialect which sounds very similar to the English language attempts by Africans on their continent. No audible differences.
Fascinating. Removed by centuries and thousands of miles and yet so closely connected to the original.
The same argument could be made for the "barbarians" of northern Europe in classical times. They literally lived in the stone age compared to ancient Rome and the rest of the civilized world of the time. What you're seeing in the US is the result of the socialist slave master central planners. When you have some time, listen to what an American conservative brain surgeon, Dr. Benjamin Carson said to Obama. I'm sure this speech never made it to the European press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb6NU1giRA
Sure socialism is to blame for the dependency cultural phenomenon. But men chasing tail like there's no tomorrow and women spreading their legs and popping out kids is clearly and very much geographically limited to one area of this world. The similarities between the descendants in the new world and the people of the same heritage in their original and genuine habitat cannot be denied. I'm just citing one example. Aggression and violent outbursts accompanied by tribal chanting and cheering is another example.
Whoever would tackle the research on this topic should receive a Nobel Prize for Anthropology but alas, that won't happen in our life time.
Trust me, it's cultural, not genetic. We are not born knowing anything. We only advance because we are taught the wisdom of our forefathers. Remove this and Whites can revert back to their tribal nature faster than you think.
Have you ever been to Central Africa??? I have, and you are full of shit asshole. TV and satellite dishes = progressiveness...hahahaahaha. A Tribe is a community, thanks to King Leopold, and the rest of the fucking robber barons of old, some parts of Africa is a shithole. Guess what, some parts of America is a shithole thanks to the same motherfuckers einstien!!!
"Something else was noticeable. The apparent lack of language skills."
Contrariwise....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWKLuwR_bFw
I thought it was called black majority rule.
So who's gonna restructure US debt when it goes bankrupt? The IMF?
Mr. Orr's office confirmed it was evaluating the potential sale of prized assets such as the artwork at the Detroit Institute of Art, a collection potentially worth billions.
More strip mining of the plebe ressources by those gaming the system aka billionaires.
Here's a cost saving plan for ya : bulldoze the whole area and turn it into farmland... at least it'll be productive... Detroit as a ``city`` is finished and has been for the last 40 years.
First the Income Statement; then, the Balance Sheet..
I propose the UN.
To minimize disturbances, a US rep from a third world country can be appointed the interim president.
We already got that shit and ain't workin' out so well now, is it?
Ya think??? Good one there....
I just wanna see dem Columbia University grades, and find out which sheik paid for the Kenyan's skooling...
CB
To be fair, we've only tried a US senator from a third world country. Maybe we can try a US representative from a third world country next time.
mjcOH1, you forgot to mention the fact that the state of illinois allows illegal aliens to run for the office of state senator.
Hey -why not-our dumbfuck govenor gave them the right to acquire a legal id -a driver's license.
May I suggest Robert Mugabe. What that dude did for Rhodesian agriculture once he got it out of the hands of whitey!
A Country that at one time produced sufficient to feed ALL Africa, with plenty left over to export.
Now the predominantly white farmers have been either killed, or driven out, Zimbabwe cannot even feed its own population.
We saw the same in Namibia, South Africa, even Kenya. Re-emergence of tribal feuds / squabbles, with "the locals" far more interested in booze and infighting than productive work.
China
People donated that art to the museum for everyone to enjoy and those fuckers are going to sell it off to billionaire collecters - probably in foreign countries where it will never be seen again. You can bet your ass there are phones ringing at city officials' homes with offers of cash in brown manilla envelopes and the best whores money can buy if Prince Waleed Mohammed Bin Mohammed or Chang Kai Shek Ping Woo Fun gets first dibs at the good stuff. I'll bet Beyonce and Jay Z even walk off with a piece or two.
Times have changed.
Besides, the DIA is mainly a suburban playground (read whites).
ping woo fun was my mothers name and i resemble that coment.
Did she have any children that lived? I'll bet she regrets that!
Just goes to show you should never donate to dot gov. If you want to be generous, go ahead. Lend it with the clause that it always comes back in the end.
There is a large area of the lower East Side that has been purchased by a corporate farmer from Macomb County by the name of Hantz who is clearing the area of abandoned structures and unused streets. He is planning to plant a crop of hybrid cotton and use older experienced local residents to till the fields and pick the crop. Many of the residents protested this scheme because they see that their lives have now come full circle.
Well... if they are not happy, they can move to another liberal city like Detroit... Chicago or anywhere on the west or east coast.
I hear Philly, Camden and East St. Louis are nicer.
That is one of the best things I have ever read.
'Massa, Tyrone ain't pickin his share
If he's white, that's why they protested.
Can't let "them" take over "our" town. "They" want to take "our" riverfront from "us."
And other assorted code word bullshit.
ah, the 31st microclimate in mi, sweet.
Posted earlier - wrong spot. "Hantz" is not your friendly neighborhood farmer. He's not a farmer. He's one of the sleeziest brokers I have ever met.
"full circle" LOL - no shit
home is Africa. mining jobs are available as well.
Thanks god for the 1% to save us and come in and buy the scribbling’s of some unfortunate under-trodden with artistic talent.... Whew....
Whatever it takes to keep the free healthcare going......
'Murika's #1 Shithole.
Fuck Yeah!!!!
Bankruptcy filing was imminent as soon as they appointed a bankruptcy attorney to get all of its ducks in a row prior to filing.
The union leader quoted fails to understand that the city has been bankrupt for awhile . . . It had Simply not filed yet. I guess Mr. Orr did not find the black-entrepenuer funded cultural center an adequate boot-strap to pull upon. Even if it was the best idea yet....
I and others in my family/those i know have considered emigrating to Detroit on multiple occasions, but the racist development policies and social programs make it unpalatable at best to whites. I don't have much, and would gladly offer my skills in rebuilding, but i am unwanted because of my ancestry.
You would probably be killed within 15 minutes of your arrival and your bones picked clean before sunset.
Actually, I've spent time in Detroit, on the street/homeless. As long as i have my voice and my weapon, I'm certain I'll be alright.
It's a beautiful place, but depressingly mismanaged.
I live in a place like that, trying to change the dynamics.
Me too, San Francisco.
A middle-aged man sleeping in a racing car bed is less ridiculous than sleeping on the streets of Detroit.
noless, how do you manage to access the dumpsters at Renaissance Center? That place has pretty tight security.
Good grief, noless, why Detroit??? Why not Maine, for instance??? If you don't mind cold weather - and you must not, if Detroit beckons - why don't you and your relatives buy a big farm in rural Maine for nearly nothing??? Why be surrounded by crime and despair and destruction, when for peanuts you can live in an absolutely beautiful rural setting with very decent, sane, non-addicted, hard-working people as neighbors?
It sounds like you have had such harsh experiences that you EXPECT things to be painful in certain ways, and are not trying to avoid that pain. But there is NO REASON to live in a hellhole in this country, unless you are completely and utterly physically incapacitated and cannot crawl to a nice place, like a cheap part of rural New England. Or if you have a particular fondness for dying industrial, New England can provide that, too, in quantity. Loads and loads of old dying mill towns, that are not horribly crime ridden.
The mere fact that you are looking at Detroit as an option, likely means that you do not properly see that life is hard enough, and you don't need to needlessly make it harder for yourself than it already is.
If your great goal is to save a near-dead place, consider this: it is just as important for people to keep other places from reaching that stage. Go to one of those other places, that is not yet a wreck, and prevent the disaster.
Lol, multiple upvotes. Come Fuckers, done and serious.
Locked and in play, i look forward to the repercussions, if any.
No, no, you were upvoted because people want you to do well, and empathize with difficult situations.
Not because it is a good idea for you to live in Detroit.
BTW, you speak of wanting to have a family (kids) someday. Detroit will not be in good enough shape for that in your lifetime. It would be a really unkind and destructive thing to raise kids in a place like that, unless there were NO other options. But there are many other options, that are already quite decent.
No less...that is unfortunate. On the bright side, they spared you from having to relocate once again. Go to where your skills will be appreciated
I would like to believe that my home state will get it's shit together and i can work a job and raise a family, if that doesn't materialise then other options are in play. This is my last option from an on the ground perspective before leaving the country, and Australia was my best bet, so I'm guessing moving at this point won't get me anywhere.
Right now south America maybe if i get my Spanish/Portuguese going, or Africa, but all the same problems arise, the only sensible solution to me is to stick it out here.
I'll be a peon and lose any possibility of building a house, but at least I'll live i guess.
I don't see any localities that respect individuals.
australia will not give you a visa. sorry
No, noless, you're not going to find any localities that respect individuals. So give that a rest, and go for something tangible, like not being shot and not having to drink polluted water and not raising kids on a diet of vacant-lot lead paint bits.
If you have very little money, find a farmer in Maine or upstate New York who will give you room and board in exchange for labor. People are kind around there, or kind enough anyway, and everyone can use cheap farm labor. Then find a similar position that pays a little, and save the money and buy land with a rundown place on it. Take it from there. Detroit is not the only place with nearly free land; it is just the most dangerous one and the one you're familiar with.
You've...considered emigrating to Detroit? Really? Must be on the dust? If you act now, you and your family can pre-purchase your own shallow grave down by the rail road tracks.
Unrelatedly, I know I can sell you and your family my last basket of Magic Beans; only 10K for the lot, but I can see your group is clearly of the right IQ to buy every one of them.
Unions coming to the table. HAHAHHAAH fire them all for supporting maxist and socialist.
Go eat your peas.
""I think it's a scare tactic," said Ed McNeil, assistant to American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 25 President Al Garrett, the city's largest union for municipal workers. "It's been something like six times that the city was going to go bankrupt. But it never happened and they never had a payless payday."
Classic!
Yeah, you got us. We're bluffing. Just wait here for your next paycheck while we get the hell outta Dodge, er, um, Detroit, before you cash it.
Somebody's gotta come to help us. Right? I mean you're not justy going to let us sit here without our paychecks, pensions and free healthcare, right?
Right, dude. Right. We'll be right there to help out. Please hold.
FYI pension funds are insured - by you.
FYI no shit
Ben's gotta print a heck of a lot more than 85 billion a month to keep all this shit going
FYI- mercifully only to about $58K/year through the PBGC. Beats the shit outta the mega-millions they were promised (and foolishly believed they would actually receive).
"Only $58k."
$58k is a fortune compared to the private sector. Sure hope they can survive on just three or four times what the average Social Security recipient gets.
The unions supported the president and PPACA. Now, they realize that they are going to lose a major part of their reason to exist. Stupid, stupid, stupid
The Dems continue to use the unions as a cash cow/voting block and the unions continue to believe that the Dems are in their corner- LOL.
What's taken so long?
Round up all those past fiscally conservative mayors immediately Holder!
This cannot stand!
All of the world's wealth has been funneled to a few thousand oligarchs fair and square (or not, but it doesn't matter). The useless eaters can eat shit and die. And retirement is for lazy people who could not accumulate 7 figures in retirement assets on their own, which is easily what you need these days if you plan to live much past your retirement date and also be unfortunate enough to have medical problems.
"useless eaters can eat shit and die"
Already happening my friend.....
True.
They truck it out of the cities, full of heavy metals & pathogens...and dump it on top of where the city gets its drinking water supply.
Bottoms up! ;-)
Dem belly full, but we hungry, is that it, LTER? Equitable distribution based upon need? Was Detroit bled dry by the oligarchs?
Detroit has it all. Strong unions, multicultural government, high taxes, and plentiful social welfare programs. Weird that it would be collapsing, eh? Must be those rich fuckers in Grosse Pointe, amirite?
The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he does not exist. The oligarchs greatest trick was convincing the sheep such as yourself that everyone should fend for themselves and that poverty cannot be cured in a world where a few thousand individuals own more wealth than most of the world combined. Detroit failed for a lot of reasons that included management building shitty cars deliberately thinking that the Big Three monopoly could never be challenged. Then they shifted gears so to speak and moved their factories to low wage countries. They still have their mansions in Grosse Point.
I find it curious that you would classify me as a sheep. You follow the statist party line (and parrot it back quite fluently) but decry my mindless following of the herd when I imply that people are best off when left alone.
Are you under the assumption that the folks who live in Grosse Pointe created Detroit? The truth is exactly the opposite. This is the saddest part of the story, because your dependency on the state will never allow you to see the truth in that.
Like most of your ilk, you miss the point. The vast majority of people do not want to be left alone. Do you think everyone in Germany was a fan of Hitler in the 1940's? Of course not, but they were subject to his rule. What I advocate is a balance that recognizes the fact that humanity as a whole tends to line up behind assholes who promise them something for nothing. What you advocate is a fairy tale.
Not granting that what you say is true, why is it that those of us who do wish to be left alone must abide by your rules? Is it because the parasite really wishes that the relationship was symbiotic, but will take whatever it can get? As far as I can tell, the only reason that anyone would subjugate themselves to the complete will of others is if they plan to be the ones in control.
As for fairy tales, you are correct. We have only caught fleeting glimpses of true capitalist freedom. We do, however, have history books full of the telling of your story. For some odd reason, we keep trying to tell people to learn from it.
I think it all comes down to the fact that most people want to be told what to do even if they don't admit it. Some of the most ardant "conservatives" I know who claim to be in favor of personal freedom line up behind total tyrants who promise them what they never deliver, and those same people just keep coming back for more. Some of the most "liberal" I know ignore that Obama is a tryant and find excuses for everything from drones to massive expansion of the surveillance state. And the reason why those of us who want to be left alone are not, is simply that the sociopaths who convince most of society to allow them to lead don't want us to. Believe it or not I love your philosophy. I just don't think it would work in practice.
Looking around you and saying, "these guys are stupid assholes" will not get much disagreement because they will look at you and think the same. Telling them that they are a stupid asshole and you know what is best for them; well, now it is a discussion about self-esteem, and likely emotional confrontation.
And, sometimes love forces irrational behavior. Come join us in rejecting the State. If it doesn't work for everyone, having it work for no one is not an acceptable substitute.
Most people want to be told to do what they would already be willing to do, and want force to be used on those who are not willing.
They want the collective to be in their image.
If you really believe most people have a proclivity for accepting and ignoring or supporting tyranny, it would make little sense to believe the sociopaths need to do much if any convincing in order to get their way.
You can't change this proclivity, and you can't eliminate all the sociopaths. What you can do is make it so that the sociopaths have no power to take, but rather would be forced to create it through personal effort. Instead, we provide them with the psychological power equivalent of a hydrogen bomb, prefabricated and ready to use, and then let them compete for it such that the only the worst of the worst ever get anywhere near it.
You cannot use such a weapon for peaceful, productive purposes, and it is impossible but through sheer chance that anyone who ever had the opportunity would want to, let alone have an inkling as to how. That is the nature of the system.
If destroyed, it would require enormous effort to rebuild.
And yet you think such a weapon should be allowed to continue to exist, even if you don't think it can be destroyed entirely. Makes no sense.
The issue is of practicality... as a draftsman, I can see no system devised nor a way of reducing it to paper where these problems would be solved... We can mitigate them for certain, but I'm not sure that they can be eliminated or even significantly limited in any material way. In fact, the same virtues that we value for creative and productive purposes are often indistinguishable from machiavelian guile. In many respects, the arguments against "sociopaths" are really just arguments of jealousy (equity theory) leading to re-distribution schemes. Remember, fairness is something that is ever-present and constantly in existence... fairness isn't an issue to discuss only after the wealth gap gets out of hand.
PS, sociopaths, in the truest sense, are rare creatures.... what we often times chalk up to sociopathy is really just a competitive action of a self interested person... sociopaths also generally do not lend themselves to psychological oversight and, as a result, their numbers are clinical guesses at best. Those who are "caught" and allow themselves to be studied are few and far between (and, frankly, display characteristics much more obvious than any of the people who this board frequently refers to as sociopaths).
Oligarchs killed Detroit? Management built shitty cars?
Bullshit.
I grew up in the city, still have family in the Lilly White Northern Suburbs and can tell you that it was liberalism, union greed and good ol' corruption that killed Detroit and has forever hobbled the town.
There's plenty of blame to go around. Unions were corrupt and workers suffered from the greed and corruption of their leaders, and the sheer laziness of some of their members. But to ignore the greed and stupidity of management as a major factor is to suffer from ideologically induced blindness.
laziness, drunkeness and absenteism of some of their members. fixed it for ya.
in a true free market management can do what it wants, so long as the bottom line keeps being met. The problem there and throughout the economy is wussification as bankruptcies are postponed/extended and pretended away from, and capitalist consequences haven't been allowed to occur.
The free market, the scientific method, and nature evolve in a similar fashion.
But some people just don't support evolution.
Typical union babble.
Management makes more, management is filled with idiots, management is greedy, blah, blah, blah.
It is not just Detroit. Everyone seems to be pulling out of heavy union towns.
Here is a recent article about Boeing do the same, specifically to get away from the unions.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/01/Boeing-Moving-Hundreds-Of-Jobs-To-Nonunion-Locations
Henry Ford -- who had his faults -- understood that his workers needed to be able to afford his cars. The management types of which you speak believe in the bottom line which is easily buoyed in the short term by finding cheap labor. It is not a long-term business model that works, as evidenced by the fact that the average consumer is living almost entirely on credit. That cannot last forever, and when the credit bubble bursts so will demand for the products and we'll see a depression that will make the 1930's look like a cake walk. But keep believing your management propaganda that the Chinese consumer will step up the plate and keep the low paid gardners busy at the mansions.
but investors would catch on to how the mgmt. is not worried about long term prospects, and they wouldn't put up with it. I agree there is tons of BS in accounting. (and of course most of this is mandated by government such as GAAP and other additions and Sarbanes and all this other one size fits all template). But in LT only companies that have prudent management are viable, and voters will be wary of this.
"Henry Ford -- who had his faults -- understood that his workers needed to be able to afford his car"
Henry Ford also could and would fire your ass if you didn't work, work being necessary to produce the car and all. Tough to run a business profitably when production for the paycheck becomes viewed as a burden by your labor force,
Still more union babble. I have heard these argument for decades.
The statement was also made at a time where there was little competition.
What has clearly been shown to be unsustainable is a bitchy, arrogant, thuggish, overly demanding union workforce.
Now, the consumer has a choice.
As for me, I buy Japanese exclusively.
Problems are rare. And when there is an issue, the manufacturer is gracious and eager to fix the problem.
Best of all, the Japanese do not intentionally design a car to fail after a few years (planned obsolescence).
Fuck those riceburners bullshit.
GERMAN ENGINEERING
multicultural government
You mean mono-cultural government.
Look lter, i get it. I fucking am it.
Once snap runs dry real leaders will ascend. I don't know why you attempt your play for partisan points, health care is run by the cartels, insurance, this is something we should logically agree on, there is no health "care" and fed government intervention in the current climate will only lead to more crony bullshit.
Any dipshit that believes (especially citizens of the usa) that they will be able to "retire" is either certifiably retarded, or exploitative.
Please don't waste both of our time by responding, you already know we basically agree.
Real money, fuck the banks, fuck the fed gov, real democratic representation in economic affairs; regardless of affiliation, separation of powers, and fucking blind justice.
Insert text of constitution here.
It would be far easier for productive people to retire if the cost of government were removed from the price of all goods and services.
I would dare to guess that the price of things, excluding land, would be about twenty five cents on the dollar.
Only thing good about Detroit is seeing it in your rearview on your way to Windsor for high-class all-nude all the time. Am I right, Gents?
No comment...but Windsor was a lovely when I was there in the 80's ;-)
Just FYI, I'm not your down arrow tonight.
Paranoid much?
Why, do you have it out for me?