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Tesla Model S May Sales Of 1425, Autodata Estimates
Curious why (formerly) government-subsidized, ultra-luxury battery operated car maker Tesla has a market cap of $10.6 billio (a little over 25% of GM's market cap). Here's a hint
- AUTODATA ESTIMATES TESLA MAY U.S. MODEL S SALES WERE 1,425
And that's with the surge in daily publicity, the headline news articles resulting from the epic short squeeze, and the nearly daily CNBC infomercials.
But don't worry: it's a fixed cost model. In other words the company's market cap right now translates into $7.5 million per car sold per month. But just wait until TSLA is selling 142,500 $100,000 electric cars per month to the world's infinite (for it's own sake) billionaires. Then you will see scale like no one has seen ever before...
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thats amazing, those are per day figures right?
That's in a month. Are they counting sales to the end user or do a dealer which may have to meet a quota?
Booming economy, Booming stockmarket.
We are in the Great Bull of 2013.
FED owned market-cap trap. Can't short this fucking beast, even thought it makes total sense to do so. Next up is sovereign defaults because no market participant is allowed to fail - until they ALL fail at the same instant.
Whats the number excluding channels stuffing?
GUYS!
I saw a Volt today!
And on its side it had these humongoloid decals taking up the panels from front to back which said "Volt!"
Still, I've seen more UFOs than Volts
No kidding....
next gen Volt will be good.. catch is, can it survive until a next gen?
Wow, I feel super special now for actually seeing a Tesla on the road somewhere.
Only seen about 3 or 4 Volts.
there was one around here a few years ago.. the roadster.. at a pepboys.. i had to ask, uh.. you aren't getting parts here right? and he wasnt, was getting parts for his other car
there should be a dealership opening up in a few months here... i'd take a model s for a test drive for sure
I worked on a private guys electric car here in Hawaii, (electronic engineer), I built the battery charger and straighened out some stuff for him; he took it to Honolulu for an Electric Car Race; there was a Volt There, (he took me to Hono. too, it was a job bene.), so I got to see it. they sent a company driver with it and he put it in forward instead of reverse to back out of the parking space, which was fronted by a brick wall. Not too good. So, as the racers say it was a DNF. First was a porsche conversion with a lady owner, but her husband was an engineer for Mercedes, (she came all the way from Germany for this race), and my guy took third. The cars had to do terrible and unnatural things for electric cars, like go uphill. (engineers joke).
They're pretty horrible. Maybe we could make a competitor called an Amp.
ROFL, I saw one too & I only drove 3 mi.
This isn't even funny anymore.
I cant take it.
$7.5 million per car sold. Why not $10 million? Why not $20 million?
Seriously. What's the difference between batshit-fucking-crazy, and batshit-fucking-crazy squared?
'Seriously. What's the difference between batshit-fucking-crazy, and batshit-fucking-crazy squared?'
What's the difference between 0x0 and 0x0 squared?
Nuthin' plus nuthin' means nuthin'.
you got that quote wrong. here's the right one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ5-BTdcqjk
Hyundai is a better bet for the long-term than Tesla. They now have a hybrid Sonata. Korea is apparently ahead of Detroit in battery and magnet technologies.
Whatever proprietary technology Tesla may have now will not stays exclusively theirs for long. Once the demand and infrastructure are there, Toyota and Hyundai will eat Tesla's lunch. (IMO of course)
So, the question is, when to start shorting?
Now seems like a good time. What a ridiculous value for this company; it's another Pet's R us.com.
My little sister is ahead of Detroit in battery and magnet technology; Tesla doesn't have any significant tech. it's just a synchronous motor and an inverter and a bunch of lithium-ion batteries. Good power weight ratio; ridiculous price. There's been a man carrying airplane built and flown already; kind of a normal looking small plane; with the propellor directly attached to the synchronous motor, (that's where the super magnets are; but they're just a product, anybody can buy them). It used the same power train as a Tesla, lithium ion batterys fairly sophisticated inverter and a synchronous motorl; nothing very amazing. I can design you one if you want.
"they" don't care what we mere humans perceive of as reality... in their plans for the utopian future, they plan totally shape reality to fit their agenda... we are still in implementation phase, however, and there is still time to stop the madness.
Tesla sells their cars direct, no dealers
Fuck You Tesla
make sure your house is properly earthed after statement like that.
Now that is Funny
WHo gave the red arrow, FFS?
if only Tesla sold cars with a nuclear powercore I would have bought one.... but than a second problem would arise... my wife doesn't want me to put a nuclear reactor in the garage... she thinks all the lead panels would be bad for the kids if they scratched against it.... woman... go fish....
WHat happens if your car gets hit by a Tsunami ??? Man you just haven't thought this thing through...
EASY!!!
Than I just give it away to some poor people!
That is correct Sir !!! That correct answer now qualifies you to run the FED !!!
Or, possibly the DOE; sadly enough.
Only to be revised down....like the constrution spending number went from 1.7% m/m to be revied to -0.8% m/m
Also, http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=logarithmic&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1370289600000&chddm=97750&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NASDAQ:NFLX&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:TSLA&&fct=big&ei=Zt-sUZjmBaLA0AGBDQ
blame Texas instruments I always say...
TSLA has annual shareholder rmeeting tomorrow AH. Batman will be there.
I would have figured that Flash from Gordon Enterprises would be on.
nah... he had a quarel with Picard from starship enterprise so he'll be a no show.
don't forget soda stream today. welcome to the new econmy
When I was an active RVer, there was a guy on the RV group who followed Tesla closely and was buying it hand over fist. Although I don't follow the group anymore, I've often wondered if he's cashed in or is holding on. If he's cashed in he'll be RVing in style for many years. I hope he's done well.
What on earth was his rationale? It couldn't have anything to do with fundamentals...
In the casino, all rationales are invalid... (other than the house's...)
>> What on earth was his rationale?
I honestly don't have a clue. I thought he was going to get his ass handed to him. Seemed like a real nice guy and I certainly didn' wish anything bad to happen, but it sure seemed like a fools errand. But then I've always come from the perspective of it's all about to crash down. I thought industrial America was on borrowed time during the Carter administration, and ever since. Half, or more, of the people on the group were buying the "dip" and setting up for the next big move. Folks like me, we were smirking in our smugness knowing those sheep are about to get sheared. As has been my forte, my perceptions didn't reflect reality. It's a damned good thing I've always been happy living a simple life.
'RVer'... remote viewing?... oh, 'recreational vehicling'?
you wanna roll like the US government? buy an RV- you will be in over your head in debt just buying the thing, if anything breaks it will cost a minimum of $1000 to fix no matter what, and every time you take it out on a trip something will break and you will spend at least $400 in gas just getting there.
then when you get sick of wasting money and you decide to sell it, you will only get about 1/3 of what you paid for it.
the RV salesman should use the pitch "debt doesnt matter" when explaining the cost of ownership to prospective buyers....
>> you will be in over your head in debt just buying the thing,
Sure, if you follow the herd. I bought a top quality used rig and paid about 1/3 of the original owner, $20K. I ripped out the generator and made it a full solar unit. Yeah, I puked up some cash for diesel as I spend 7 months on the road, going round trip from South Florida to Fairbanks Alaska, with a stop in Mexico. I saw shit I never thought I'd ever be able to see. As it was full solar I didn't have to hang with the crowd. We spent two months camping on the beach in Seward AK and another six weeks on a bluff overlooking the sound opposite Valdez. Absolute trip of a lifetime for a guy like me. My best friend sat right beside me (my dog), my cat rode in the rig, and my very ill wife saw things she'd always wanted to see. Right after we got back she had a heart attack and spend three months on dialysis getting her kidneys working again. Thank god that didn't happen on the trip, but I knew she was on borrowed time.
Since then I've used it as a base while I rehabbed a couple of derelict country properties on acreage. I've still got it and it gives me some comfort knowing if the grid goes down I've still got a pretty nice off the grid cabin sitting right out back. Not a panacea, but better than nothing. I spent 5 days with no power after one of the hurricanes and I'd have ponied up some bucks to have had this rig to hang in.
Yeah, the bulk of the RV thing is a financial disaster for most, but that's pretty much like anything else in our society. For me it was a good move. Expensive on my level? Yes, but well worth it.
Even with a generous profit of $15,000 per vehicle that is just a little over $2 million in profit.
Not much for $10.6 Billion in market cap.
More .gov loans?
Fisker!
Better PE than Amascam.....
Go look at Amazon's margins and get back to me.
eps NEGATIVE 19 cents per share.... TESLA at least makes an infinitesimal amount of money per Giverment dollar.
"and that is why you fail." Yoda.
They could do their channel stuffing in a Walmart parking lot.
I think the average cost of $70,000 is out of the price range for us little folks and too high to qualify for a subprime or lifetime payment car loan.....
Then you have this issue.
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/05/31/tesla-promises-to-add-charging-st...
Currently Tesla has eight supercharger stations in California and on the East Coast. It has plans to add four stations in California this summer. Stations also will be added during the summer so drivers can go from Vancouver, British Columbia, to Seattle and Portland; and from Austin, Texas, to Dallas. They also will come on-line quickly in Illinois and Colorado.
Kind of a limited driving market now isn't it. Not saying it will catch on but without an infrastructure to refuel them yes electricty in this case is fuel well the sales numbers are surprising if you break it down I bet them sales all cluster around Silicone Valley and places like Burbank, Beverly Hills, and Hollywood.
those fueling stations better come with a room with a bed because it takes between 8 and 16 hours to fully recharge the batteries.
A 16 hour fueling stop....kind of takes the fun out of a road trip huh?
Brothel.
The most efficient kinds of electric transporation are the ones that don't rely on carrying the dead weight of batteries around - trains and trolley buses. The problem is that they don't offer anywhere close to freedom provided by private transportation. You can't choose where you're going and you can't easily skip pass vehicles in front of you.
I do know one kind of battery free vehicle that has no such constraints - a bumber car! How'bout that!
Instead of putting charging stations everywhere, let's pull an electrified steel mesh over every street and roadway.
People won't be complaining about a boring commute ever again.
this is an almost flawless example of just how totally fucking retarded this market has become.
(if they had murdered the car, then it would be a flawless example)
Sort of a Bobby Kennedy thing?
Fisker Karma Jr.
Yep, about the same story as Fisker- minus the fires, of course- lot of excitement over the first couple of months of deliveries, then that was it- all the people who were going to buy a Fisker did, and sales died- won't be any different for Tesla, who will learn they should have had the $30K car all ready to go by now......
Free and efficient markets at work. Now all we need for the farce to be complete is for GE to take them out at a premium.
Great, now you can add a 16 hour fuel station stop to a 2 hour commute - that'll sell like hotcakes......
Tony Stark's character in the Iron Man movies was reportedly inspired by Elon Musk - a fictional billionaire.
Fisker Karma Jr. Here's 2 Fisker(underwater) Torches, that sold for a 50% discount, last week.
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img109/7742/fiskerkarma.png[/IMG]
So that's one for each CNBC viewer, right? Hope they find some other places to advertise.
Its all that "pro forma income"..thats the ticket.....and he better build 200,000 charging stations or he is toast....what good is a car that just does 18 holes....
Bunches of them in Seattle.
Lots of them around the Bay Area....as common as Posche's. Nice looking car but the range is still an issue.
Range issue? If you plug your iPhone into the cigarette lighter, you can drive an additional seven blocks. Real Apple fanatics can make it all the way across town using all of their devices.
Seattle sucks.
/former Seattleite
I suspect that a fair number of people buying Teslas are doing so as an investment in a soon to be collectible car once the company files BK...which seems inevitable with those sales figures.
IT seems that this idea didn't work for the Fisker Karma, which are trading for as much as a 50% discount to MSRP 1 year later on ebay LOL!
Moar stalks please.
It's a limited market, just like every other exotic car.
Market cap shmarket cap. Only stupid investors focus on that. The cool guys drive the product and laugh at billionaires with obviously more money than brains.
the only thing that isn't limited about a Tesla is the fucking repair bill charge these suckers are going to get when these buckets break down.
no need to bash it.
ceo is a genius, he also cofounded paypal afaik. tesla is awsome. overvalued yes but still a great company.
yep - there's something great about a company that sells $100,000 cars for the masses.
get up, shower, change and leave my public housing project with my $100,000 Tesla, go to the welfare office and get my foodstamps - go buy some beer - and the off to the disability office to collect my entitlements check.
tough day.
drive my Tesla home and get drunk.
Actually the CEO is a genius. They aren't making money on the cars. The money is made by being a electric car manufacturer. The government gives you these things called carbon credits. The companies manufacturing gas powered autos that can't make unrealistic quotas have 2 choices; pay fines or buy carbon credits from auto manufacturers that don't need them. Voila, Tesla makes huge money from selling the credits because they don't need any of them.
So here is the business model.
1. Borrow free money from US Govt under green initiatives.
2. Set up a factory that can produce 1 electric car.
3. Get carbon credits from US Govt.
4. Sell stock.
5. Sell carbon credits to big auto makers.
6. Payback loan and show profit.
7. Stock price through the roof.
Free-Market Capitalism, 21st century style.
It's not free. Not really a market. And it sure as heck ain't capitalism.
But that's not really "beef" you're eating in that cheeseburger, either - so it's all good.
"Gangnam Style"
http://www.ibtimes.com/teslas-first-ever-profit-came-thanks-selling-zero...
Profits manufactured out of thin air, courtesy of the US Government.
..and courtesy of the BS "green" agenda...
This is the fundamental flaw in electric cars and why they were doomed from inception. That is, humans remembering to charge their car. I cant even remember to charge my smartphone most of the time.
Expect an average joe (with his case of Keystone light) each night to remember to plug his car in?
He wont make it to work after day 3. He gets fired. Family goes on welfare (if not already). The entire economy in domino effect.
Musk is a genious indeed. The poor have their EBT cards. The rich have their SZ (subsidized, zirp) cards.
What card does the middle class get? Joker
Great company? I knew a guy in the OC that was an engineer at Tesla ... very smart guy ... they laid him off
If they sold for $20,000. They would have sold a lot less of them.
That's funny, because it's true.
I'm sure they'll make it up in volume.
Of BS.
Tesla the band is doing better than Tesla the car company.
It all makes sense. 1,300 of those cars were bought buy the government to give out to the welfare crowd. Just another freebee from your statist evolved government to lock in votes for 2014.
Tesla price chart looks like Bitcoin's
They are going to be selling leasing rights to there battery technology. They won't have to sell a single car to make millions.
Dr. Evil agrees.
People betting on Tesla arnt buying it for the current level of production, they are betting that Tesla can tread water until the Gen 3 model goes into production. Tesla getting a 35K car on the market is a game changing event in the auto industry. Basically doing the same thing Apple did to Nokia and blackberry to GM, Chrystler , and anyone else not getting fuel efficient.
In case people forget tooling a factory, creating fueling network and designing a car is capital intensive. And to all the uneducated, it takes 20 minutes to charge 200 miles at one of the Tesla stations. Not exactly 8-16 hours as implied above. At current levels the price is inflated but its time that tesla needs not exponential growth in Model S sales.
They also dont recognize any sales until the unitl is delivered and the owner has signed off on it. They are also starting to ship cars to Eurpoe which wont be delivered until the end of the quarter and next quarter.
Good thing I'm subsidizing each one sold in the US.
Glad I can contribute to the purchase price because God knows - the people buying them need all the help they can get.
20 minutes is 20 years in HFT.
Never understood why they wouldn't just make the batteries swappable so you pull into a charging station and swap out the dead battery for a fully charged one in less time than it takes to pump 20 gallons of fuel?
What a novel idea.
200 miles from 20 mins of juice? Yeah, why don't you show us some documentation on that, because my education involved some physics, and based on Tesla's own numbers, 30 mins on their supercharger will give you maybe 150 miles, verified by a Motor Trend test last Sept- http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2012/1209_tesla_supercharge...
Of course, Tesla's own numbers have already been shown to be more than a tad optimistic.....
But hey, don't let facts get in your way.....
Or you could just click on the giant hyperlink on their website...
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
They seem a little pricey until you consider that they come with free floormats and "ice cold air" standard.
They must all be in Silicon Valley. I see at least 2 every day, each way, on my commute.
Classic. Let's drive electric cars in the wettest parts of the lower 48. LMAO (granola heads)
If sales are this low overall then one could conclude that many of these sales actually come from channel stuffing.
Maybe they can be monitized. It's all harmless in the end and I was told monetizing electric cars is effective against global warming, ehh, climate change.
WTF1425
Nobody here seems to get what Tesla is doing. They have a very high performance electric motor that does not use any permanent magnets. Which means that you do not need any rare earth metals, and the motor does not need a cooling system because it is just an aluminium cage.
This kind of motor (called an asynchronous motor) was invented by nikola tesla. Hence the name. All the intelligence is in the controller, which is just silicon and software.
Sure, elon musk is a master of grabbing subsidies. And the value of tesla is highly speculative. But at the core of the business is some genuinely new and genuinely useful technology.
AC motors are nothing new, as you pointed out yourself, Arch- all Musk has is some battery technology, but that's only temporary.
Don't be one of the dupes that isn't following the money- it's ALWAYS about the money- the car is nice, but it's just a widget in Musk's equation......
Of course AC motors are nothing new. But so far they have been used with the AC from the grid, which only allows them to run at a fixed frequency with good efficiency.
The key innovation is to have a variable frequency inverter that creates just the right AC frequency to get maximum efficiency at the currently required RPM.
If you think this is trivial technology, consider this: electric motors from all other major manufacturers (toyota, in the prius, and GM in the volt) use synchronous motors with require rare earth metal permanent magnets and constant cooling to prevent overheating, which would permanently destroy the rare earth magnets. You think e.g. toyota likes buying rare earth magnets from china? They don't. But so far they did not manage to develop an alternative. Which is why they are interested in tesla technology.
It's not trivial technology- in fact, it's well-known-
Again, it's about money- Toyota buys rare-earth magnets because it's CHEAPER than the technology that Tesla is engaging-
This isn't rocket science- it's economics. Tesla's engineers didn't appear from thin air- they're GM and Toyota guys (among others) who followed the money. Other companies who have pursued this technology have deemed it economically unfeasable at this time- simple.
Show me the profit margin on a Tesla car right now- oh, you can't.... Toyota and GM are in the car business to make money from selling cars, not from leveraging a temporary opportunity in an obtuse government funding program that will ultimately blow up Tesla unless they can leap an enormous economic scale fast;
Still waiting for that $35K car from Tesla? Never gonna happen, given current technogy and scale- and 1425 cars sold this month says it all- let's see how Musk dances around THAT reality tomorrow......
Do you have any clue what you're talking about?
If you are using variable frequency inverters (which is not a new technology at all), syncronous motors are the most effective.
Asyncronous motors only were preferred when NOT using variable frequency inverters, as they produce very good torque even if the rotor's RPM is way off the (fixed frequency) AC frequency.
Okay, so they have an induction motor instead of a synchronous motor; big deal. it's not new technology. The Volt used to have an induction motor; I don't really keep up with these things; but there's nothing new there.
Okay, I went and looked it up. It has a four pole three phase induction motor; which is forced air cooled. The original lead acid battery Chevy many years ago, had an induction motor also; which happened to be liquid cooled. Variable frequency drive for induction motors is a very common and mature industrial technology. also; FYI, the present US Patent Office is full of shit. They patent stuff all the time that's legally un-patentable; and lots of people know this, and make use of it; it costs too much to get the patent re-voked in Court. The original Tesla Induction motor was a two phase motor, which was un-patentable, because both two phase and tthree phase induction motors were already demonstrated in Europe; Westinghouse bought his patent because it was cheaper than busting it down in court; and at that point they had the selling point with the public, (who know nothing, of course), that's it's "patented technology". Tesla never did produce a three phase induction motor; so the idea that the car is somehow related to his "work"; which was basically a con-job in the first place; is nonsense. It's a buzz-name amoungst technical illiterates; and therefore marketable.
Agreed, SAT- in fact, I converted my golf cart to AC from DC a few years ago- it takes a more serious controller, but that's about it, and yeah, no rare-earth magnets in the motor is a plus- she screams now.
But that's part of the illusion, ya? Create numerous patents out of thin air- a great marketing tool, really nothing more.
Tesla does have some interesting battery technology, granted- but no one is lining up to license it, because the technology is likely to be obsolete before serious tooling could be completed- we'll be onto the next trick tech pony before long-
Elon Musk- in a flash POOF!- he was gone...... (Keyser Soze)
I am confused... These new cars can charged up in a few minutes and can go 500 miles on that charge, right?
150 miles on a 30 minute charge. Imagine that cord gets pretty hot...
Edit: And that's at a Tesla Station. I highly doubt you could pull that kind of juice at your house.
Give the battery a couple of years to wear down..and that 15 minute charge gets you 50 miles....and wiat until winter..when you need some heat as batteries lose alot of power when cold....in two years the bugs will be known...this is a collectors car...or a rich liberals toy..
Do Tesla make drones ?
They recently moved into abandoned toyota-gm facility (NUMMI) which made Toyota Tacoma before. This new location only 1-2 miles away from abandoned Solyndra building. Have a fun next time drive thru highway 880 between fremont and milpias.
Here's a scary thought. Take Tesla's $11 billion market cap and work back into the kind of volumes you'd need to support it, giving the benefit of the doubt that this could actually happen. Then multiply that by $7,000. That's the tax credit given by the US per vehicle. Using price to sales ratios of other car makers, I come up with an annual subsidy of about $600 million.
... Or in other words, half a day of POMO.
It's called "Tax farming". It makes me sick. What bullshit.
No sign of Marty McFly's hoverboard yet.
In the meantime - Elon will use the profit to buy diesel generators to throw in the trunk of his tesla, when you run out of electricity grab a bite at circle K and let the generator repower your subsidized white elephant battery with half the efficiency of a gasoline engine