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White House Defends Its Wiretapping Of Millions Of US Citizens

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Blink and you have likely missed Obama's latest Watergate moment, this time following the disclosure that the White House has instructed the NSA to collect millions of daily phone records from Verizon (and likely all other carriers). What is surprising to us is that this is even news. We reported on just this in March of 2012 with “We Are This Far From A Turnkey Totalitarian State" - Big Brother Goes Live September 2013" and then again in April 2012 "NSA Whistleblower Speaks Live: "The Government Is Lying To You" using an NSA whistleblower as a source. Still, no matter the distribution platform, it is a welcome development for the majority of the population to know that the same Stazi tactics so loathed for decades in the fringes of the "evil empire" are now a daily occurrence under the "most transparent administration in history." This is especially true in the aftermath of the recent media scandals involving the soon to be former Attorney General.

So what was the latest largely regurgitated news? Overnight te Guardian's Glenn Greenwald reports that the "NSA is collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily" following a "top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama."

Some more from the Guardian:

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

 

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

 

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

 

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

 

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

 

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

No it won't. Because those who care, have known about this for a long, long time. Everyone else... well, they have their soaring 401(k)s to comfort them, sprinkled in with a little class warfare to keep things "fair", and of course Dancing with the Stars.

Finally, the White House was quick to explain why living in a crypto-fascist, totalitarian state is the New Normal: it's for your own good, you see.

From Reuters:

The Obama administration on Thursday acknowledged that it is collecting a massive amount of telephone records from at least one carrier, reopening the debate over privacy even as it defended the practice as necessary to protect Americans against attack.

 

The admission comes after the Guardian newspaper published a secret court order related to the records of millions of Verizon Communications customers on its website on Wednesday.

 

A senior administration official said the court order pertains only to data such as a telephone number or the length of a call, and not the subscribers' identities or the content of the telephone calls.

 

Such information is "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States," the official said, speaking on the condition of not being named.

 

"It allows counter terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States," the official added.

 

The revelation raises fresh concerns about President Barack Obama's handling of privacy and free speech issues. His administration is already under fire for searching Associated Press journalists' calling records and the emails of a Fox television reporter as part of its inquiries into leaked government information.

 

It was not immediately clear whether the practice extends to other carriers.

It does. But what is most stunning in all of this is that the benevolent rulers who are here to "help us" have not made selling of any security illegal and punishable by death. Yet.

 

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Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:46 | 3629416 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

Bullshit

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:49 | 3629423 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Boycott Verizon.  That might help

Seriously... if no one's willing to put these SOB's in prison, hitting them in the wallet night be what WE can do.

(BTW: VZ has a sordid HFT past)

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:49 | 3629433 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Pointless.  It will be revealed on a gradual basis that all carriers are doing the same thing.  For your own good.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:50 | 3629445 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Use encrypted communication.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:53 | 3629455 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

So no bankers should hang either, right NoTTD?  Same argument.  Its weak. 

Hit one to let them know we're serious.  watch the dominoes, bro

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:58 | 3629485 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

If it saves just one life it is clearly worth it, unless of course you have something to hide.

 

(says the skin and bones soccer mom sipping a latte while updating her FB page on her iphone as she cruises through another stop sign)

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:02 | 3629502 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

A senior administration official said the court order pertains only to data such as a telephone number or the length of a call, and not the subscribers' identities or the content of the telephone calls.

...

"It allows counter terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States," the official added.

 

Soooo, if you're not keeping track of the subscribers identity or the content, how do you know if it is a known or suspected terrorist making the call?  Or is terrorist in the eye of the be-Holder?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:08 | 3629529 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Until you all vote for the name on the ballot you have never heard of this shit will continue

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:20 | 3629579 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57587005-38/justice-department-tries-t...

I'm sure the g-men won't look at who the actual user is typing 'goatse' into the search engine/mail/g+/maps/etc.  Kaczynski may have been on to something.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:39 | 3629670 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Fundamental Transformation..

It’s a good thing, comrades.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:50 | 3629726 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

I wonder how long before they start monitoring our posts here on ZH.

Oh.., wait...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:00 | 3629794 General Decline
General Decline's picture

If you have done nothing wrong, then what do you have to worry about?....... I can't wait to say that to a cop next time he threatens me for videotaping him while he is hassling somebody. I guess I'll prolly get to find out what it feels like to be tazed.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:03 | 3629816 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Its for your Freakin Safety ...dont you understand ? Peasants!

 

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:17 | 3629894 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Its time to end this tragicomedy.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:09 | 3629829 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Obama's plan is to make the USA such a thoroughly unappealing state in which to live that terrorists will have no interest in bothering us.  I mean, who wants anything to do with a lowly slave, especially a docile, moronic, unfit one?  No need to knock the USA off a pedestal if the USA has already done it itself.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:16 | 3629886 tango
tango's picture

Well, this is one thing he's succeeded at and quite brilliantly, getting reelected after refusing to defend his first term and offering nothing for his second.  Oops forgot, turn us into an unappealing nation.  Done!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:56 | 3629767 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

This is a good example of why Dick Cheney never used a cell phone to communicate business info while he was VP.  He sent letters or runners with his messages. 

Cell phone conversations are about as private as emails. 

Everyone knows that, right..??

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:20 | 3629909 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Brother Nathanael on the Utah Data Center: http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=714

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:43 | 3630374 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I see he takes Bitcoin.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:27 | 3629948 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Hey! He operates just like Al-Qaeda!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:49 | 3629722 spine001
spine001's picture

We did that in MN and elected Jesse Ventura, a joke guy thzt got into the candidates list for governor just to get some free publicity. He told people a lot of hard truths... that we talk about here, a famous one was "that religuions are for the weak minded and have always been a way to control and manipulate people" you shoukd have seen the reactions to these simple historical truths... it was real fun. The poor guy spent his whole term scared shitless that they were going to kill him any minute... He didnt run again nor did he want anything to do with politics ever again. So forget about the "new guy" being a solution... The whole system is what is not working... personallychaos math tells me that I have once chance in hell of seeing the next attractor...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:51 | 3629740 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

"Until you all vote for the name on the ballot you have never heard of this shit will continue"

 

Yeah, sure. Keep voting.. over and over and over again. Keep pretending that the a piece of paper called The Constitution can limit the size, scope, and power of Gov't. Knock yourself out!

 

If voting would change anything, they'd make it illegal.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:16 | 3629891 tango
tango's picture

So your alternative solution is ???

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:45 | 3630208 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

The solution is something that I don't necessarily expect to see within my lifetime, but that doesn't mean that I won't keep striving for it. The solution, in my opinion, would mean that the rules of society would come from where they are supposed to actually come from, from society! Not from a tyranny of the majority/mobocracy. I firmly believe that you do not get representation at a voting booth.

 

The solution, if that is what one wants to call it, has gone by many names. Anarcho-capitalism, a stateless society, a free society, libertarian, anarchy. It is my belief that there should only be businesses. No Government. Instead of Government, we would have governance. That means that businesses could only exist if they were contributing something of real actual value to society. In a free society no business could exist for very long unless it really truly was profitable.

Many anarchist believe, as I do, that the word anarchy was stolen long ago. Just like Liberal used to mean that you believed in freedom and liberty, but was taken over by people that do not freedom. So it then became Classic Liberal, then that was taken over, so freedom lovers started calling themselves Libertarians. I have been told that the original (Greek)definition of the word Anarchy is... ana, which means without, and arc, which means ruler. Anarchy means without rulers. It DOES NOT MEAN, without rules. Anarchists such as myself believe there would be rules. The difference is, where those rules would come from.

 

Am I trying, to begin, to describe Utopia? NO! There is no such thing. There is no perfect answer/solution to all the problems in the world. Neither I, nor anyone else, can solve all the problems in the world no matter how badly I might wish that I or "we" could. So, I, and I hope other Libertarians, seek the "least imperfect solution".

 

If you are wanting to know how a free society could work, the guy in my avatar, Stefan Molyneux, has thousands of videos and podcasts explaining, in his vision I suppose, of how a many different aspects of a free society might work. But alas, as Stefan says, since we've never had or seen a free society, no one can know exactly how it would look/work.

 

Here are links to a couple of example Stefan Molyneux videos:

they are not short in length!

 

An Introduction to Anarchy

Anarchy Means "Without Rulers" -Not "Without Rules!"

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:49 | 3630405 tango
tango's picture

I'm a Libertarian so I understand completely.  BUT...experience has convinced me that anarchy is possible ONLY for a well-educated, critical thinking citizenry that manages to balance long and short-term plans and avoids trouble from pesky outsiders who do not share their view.   Our evolutionary psychology developed such institutions as marriage, meals, religion, manners and government for a reason.  I am convinced that policies countering foundational psychological creations are doomed.  Alas we are only human. 

You did touch on something important.  Who can best provide for human needs - a bureacratic government of elected officials or the marketplace?  I have no doubt that the marketplace is far superior but am not convinced that people can self-regulate themselves since that involves constant diligence, rational discussion and compromise.  I much prefer a very limited State whose duties are truly national - printing money, defense, enforcing common tax and business laws, etc

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 13:28 | 3630576 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

So....how do you limit the state? The state, government always acts in its own self interest so the idea of limited government is a myth. An important question that needs to be asked is this: is man inherently good or evil. If man is good then he doesn't need government. If he is evil (sorry, I'm using male gender to describe people here) then government is bad because of the amplification effect of monopoly of use of force. When you say that you "prefer a very limited state whose duties are truly national - printing money, defense, enforcing common tax and business laws, etc" what exactly does that mean? What kind of tax system would you put into place? Would taxes be compulsary and enforceable by the threat of force? If so you are advocating a system no different than what we have today, a system (direct taxation) that is "constitutional" but immoral. Would government have a monopoly on the printing of money? If so, what would the nature of that system be? Fiat or backed by some commodity (gold)? How would we consent to being governed and by whom? Would consent by implicit or explict?

The devil is in the details and when someone suggests that they are libertarian yet advocates a "truly national" system of government I'm a bit suspicious.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 14:56 | 3630944 tango
tango's picture

I no longer mentally design elaborate systems.  Institutions evolve naturally; those that are imposed are short-lived.  All systems reflect the universal struggle between individuals and the group. Again, anarchists are almost always talented, educated,critical thinkers who will do well in any setting.  They forget that most folks are NOT like this nor have they ever been.  I don't want Utopia - simply a system that works well most the time.  

As for taxes, we need roads, bridges, hospitals, schools, clean water, food and air, basic R&D, protection from bad guys, enforcement of laws.  This requires money whether tasks are performed by the private or public sector.  One of the selling points of a central power was that it would prevent businesses from facing 13 different sets of taxes and rules.  Except for religion, I like the ideas of Ron Paul

 

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 13:47 | 3630606 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Hello again tango,

 

I am very happy to hear that your are a fellow Libertarian. You would be either an Objectivist or a Minarchist Libertarian, if labels were to be used. I don't put a whole lot of stock into labels though.

 

As an an anarchist libertarian, and I know I am not alone(see Jeff Berwick, Anarchast(#72 i think) on youtube) in saying this... I am not absolutely 100% certain that Anarchy is the "least imperfect" solution. I think that Stefan Molyneux believes it 100% though. I'm fairly close but not 100%.

 

Is There Hope for Liberty in Our Lifetime? | Jacob Huebert - YouTube

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 14:08 | 3630730 tango
tango's picture

Certainly not an Objectivist - too cultish.  I guess I'm an old-fashioned 19th century liberal favoring experience, tradition and common sense.   I can still remember the time (and it was not so long ago) when folks first turned to their local governments, then state governments and only as a last resort, the federal government for help/consultation.  All the anarchists I have met are well-educated, erudite, knowledgable and critical thinkers - values I do not associate with the vast majority of the American public today.

It's so easy to get depressed - woeful education, the lack of convivial discussion, the rush to demonize any who disagree, the seeming inability to plan beyond the next day, a static, inefficient, bankrupt, corrupt  State  - BUT, having traveled the world, it is still the best.  (And what does that say about our species?).   Returning to the evolutionary theme, humans need something visceral to believe in, to trust in, to turn to in times of conflict.   Being good for goodness sake is a great atheist line but we also need laws enforced neutrally, protection from the bad guys, a system of checks and balances and a way to change things peacefully.  Limited government fits the bill for me. 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:53 | 3630426 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

What you are describing is voluntaryism. Something I support and practice as much as possible given the tyranny we live under in this country. The question I wrestle with is this: how does one - or can one - withdraw their consent to be governed? Frankly, I don't think it's possible to do so given the fact that government has a monopoly on the use of force which the wield quite effectively. And liberally. I do not vote and haven't done so since 1992 because that was when it became apparent that the whole thing is a charade. Voting is used by the power brokers to give the illusion that people are in control. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Also, I am not a big supporter of the constitution or libertarianism. Frankly the constitution was a coup d'etat by those wishing to expand and centralize government. On this subject I'm with Spooner when he wrote - “But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist.”

I would suggest another link - Everything Voluntary and also No More Cages

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 13:49 | 3630640 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

You sound a hellava lot like me! I voted the first one or two times I was of voting age and was left with a terrible taste in my mouth. That was probably around 1988. I never voted again.

 

And yes, Voluntaryism, or Voluntarism, is yet another word for a free and stateless society.

 

As I have posted before, and I get this from a Mike Shanklin interview with Ben Stone...

 

We can pretend that the Constitution limits the size, scope, and power of Gov't... but that's all it would be, pretending.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTsPUfITaN4

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:18 | 3629572 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

this is a false flag.  you think these reprobates are listing to us talking about justin gaga?  they don't want another egyptian/turkey spring. and this shit is a veiled threat.  fuck those cocksuckers

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:34 | 3629642 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

These lying POS scumbags!! They all SWORE that they would NEVER track or record electronic communications that originated and terminated within our country! LIARS! Filthy, worthless, despicable filth – being paid, BY US to spy ON US!

This PROVES that our federal system of government is no longer worthy of any respect, as they exhibit the most immoral actions that one can envision. Every single person who reads this post – your government believes that it is prudent & justified to treat you as a threat. We are NOT to be trusted. TSA grope-downs – WE PAY FOR – not by choice. We are not to be trusted. Free speech zones. We are not to be trusted, nor respected. Our RIGHT to privacy – it just doesn’t exist. We are not to be trusted. Topping it off is you wielding this enormous power that you direct at your discretion to intimidate anybody who merely disagrees with your political viewpoints : See – IRS. We are not to be trusted.

Our greatest fears about what you might become one day are manifesting as each day passes by.

We, the people, are NOT the problem. We LOVE this Republic. We aren’t the ones who casually dismiss the pillars of rules and laws – the moral fiber that is necessary for the functionality of the delicate balance of power that MUST exist or our “Experiment of Freedom” has failed. You are failing us.

You constantly lie about what you do – but when you get caught, you just lie more – with NO adverse consequences or punishment. You lie to us about what your intentions are. Your obviousness is vile. Why shouldn’t Americans be outraged?

The entire world now just scoffs at us – WE are now the punch line. Some pity us, very few revere us. This is all due to your behavior. There’s nobody to blame but yourselves. You’re disgracing everything that we are supposed to represent – the very best of mankind.

You’ve brought shame upon us all.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:57 | 3629779 Johnbrown
Johnbrown's picture

"For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken, and so cause Him to withdraw His present help from us, we shall be made a story and a by-word through the world."

The state is a false god. The great default is coming. The world is watching.

http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/sacred/charity.html

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:58 | 3629781 spine001
spine001's picture

the number one objective of terrorism is to create this totalitarian reactions on the part of governments. Their theory goes that by destroying the freedom and civil liberties they will be able to destroy the system. All of this was exposed in the argentina terrorism wars of the 1970s. How do you feel their tactics are working out?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:53 | 3630085 V in PA
V in PA's picture

The number one objective of all humans who seek political power is to create a totalitarian State that keeps them and their kind forever in charge. 

 

If they need to pretend to fight against one another (R vs. D) to trick us into thinking they are not one in the same or create terrorist world wide (by indiscriminately bombing people or stealing their resources) to scare the sheep.

Then so be it!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:23 | 3629925 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

It's not even a government anymore -- properly defined, which it was under our Constitution -- it's an occupying force.

That's the baseline.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:42 | 3629668 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

It's not like one should expect a dumb quota-monkey carny like Carney to grasp the notion that a TELEPHONE NUMBER is the SUBSCRIBER IDENTIFICATION, and that they already have name, address, SSN, DL# etc. which is added to another Federal database when the account is opened.

At some point one just has to accept that these "individuals" either do not have the higher brain function associated with human beings- which would entitle them to human rights protections, or that they are lying traitors.  Regardless, some judges should look into the matter, and determine whether these individuals need to be protected from themselves or the nation needs to be protected from them.

Is there really such full employment and a lack of competition for jobs that the uber-prestigious WHITE HOUSE can't even find an air breather capable of stringing together a coherent three-sentence lie?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:51 | 3629733 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

Just sound out the acronym.
NSA is Nazi?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:29 | 3630280 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Billing for all cxr's by AMDOCS...owned by...

I wonder when this will induce paranoia in the very people propagating this madness that it may also be used against them???

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:26 | 3629599 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture
@Zerohead

Because she's high on prescription "medicine".

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:39 | 3629669 Georgiabelle
Georgiabelle's picture

Geez, guys. What's your beef with soccer moms? Most soccer moms I know spend their days volunteering at their children's schools and after school activities. 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:52 | 3629731 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

Stop the sufferage of women.

Down vote, really? Doesn't anyone remember the Man Show.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:16 | 3629887 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

It's the blatent, self-righteous, hypocricy that I can't stand.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:48 | 3630041 Georgiabelle
Georgiabelle's picture

It's 'blatant' and 'hypocrisy'. I learned that drilling my kids on their spelling lists, which I did in between running a household, volunteering at their schools and after school activities, volunteering with Meals-on-Wheels and other charitable causes, going back to school for a masters degree, and running a small business from my home. I guess that makes me a blatantly self-righteous hypocrite, somehow?  

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 13:32 | 3630595 harami
harami's picture

No, you're the exception, not the rule.  Most soccer moms drag their kids to their daily 'activities' and never take the time to get to know them or be involved in their lives.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 14:57 | 3630946 Georgiabelle
Georgiabelle's picture

I think you guys are watching too many TV shows titled "The Real Housewives of......". Most of the soccer moms I know are more likely to be accused of being "helicopter moms". Whatever. 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:24 | 3629934 tango
tango's picture

It doesn't matter to this crowd  - they hate em all:  soccer moms, bankers, preachers, politiians, entertainers, CEOs, atheletes, scientists, Jews, the British, past presidents, the Founders - you name it and they'll froth at the mouth.  Actually, many are deeply troubled folks who need anger management courses.  It is extremely unhealthy to be eye-popping, fist-clenching, obscenity yelling mad 24/7.  It's as if  the idea of mature discussion much less emotional control has vanished.  

It's ironic that someone who spends all day hammering angry posts on a keyboard would get upset at someone out actually doing something.  LOL

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:48 | 3629710 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

I hate that bitch.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:03 | 3629815 spine001
spine001's picture

Zer0head I don't want to argue, but what you say, eventhogh it sounds very nice is equivalent to seeing only one chess move ahead in a very complex game of preserving our freedom and liberties for the long haul. I invite you to consider what you said but now look at least 3 or 4 moves ahed at the future for our kids.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:07 | 3629832 Lendo
Lendo's picture

Well put sir!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 15:13 | 3631005 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

There's one sitting right next to me in Starbucks let me ask her what she thinks about wiretapping

Reply:"Was that something I missed on America's got Talent?"

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 15:41 | 3631113 BattlegroundEur...
BattlegroundEurope2011's picture

Depends on the life.

 

If it is a banker or Politician then NO.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:54 | 3629466 F.A. Hayek
F.A. Hayek's picture

Such as???

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:55 | 3629473 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

smoke signals, pony express?  Sorry, that's all I got.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:00 | 3629490 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Susan Rice says they've been doing this because of an online video that al qaeda produced.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:07 | 3629520 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Cell phones are modern day smoke signals...You get the same message, just faster.

.

Nothing New Under the Sun,

History is Repeating itself.

.

And a high majority of women (and to a lesser extent, men) just love to check those fucking cell phones....errr...'smart phones', every 5 minutes due to their weakness of vanity...

.

Just a mental cluster fuck.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:34 | 3629647 pods
pods's picture

So if this was ostensibly about the Boston Bombing, couldn't the FBI just walk down to the handler department and ask who the guys contact's were?

pods

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:40 | 3629673 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Then drive to Florida and shoot them in the back of the head.  "Look out!  He is coming right for us."  Bam.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 14:26 | 3630822 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

I remember reading about using MMO games like Second Life (or something similar) as a means of secure communications and planning.  Might be time for a Zerohedge Friends 4 Life fire team on World of Warcraft.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:54 | 3629467 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Encrypted with what? Have you seen the size of that new computer in Utah?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:56 | 3629474 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Good luck factorising a 2,048 bit number.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:00 | 3629491 CH1
CH1's picture

Good luck factorising a 2,048 bit number.

Or 4096!

Or PGP inside of Tor, or Cryptohippie, or I2P, or.....

If people give a shit, they can protect themselves. If not, they are the Stasi's bitches.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:34 | 3629626 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

Notice how the focus is on Obama? Very little mention of NSA or FBI so far...

 

It's like DavyJones says below, this is much bigger than the Obama admin.  The admin. is just defending the power structure that exists over them and if it comes to it Obama and crew will go down in flames because a certain few (those best at defending the established order) have cushy jobs awaiting them lobbying foreign govs or in the highest offices of academia, or contributing to thinktanks/roundtable groups etc.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:52 | 3629749 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Obama is a hologram

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:57 | 3629778 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

that's the most accurate description i've ever read of the Big O.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:50 | 3630060 Fake_nation
Fake_nation's picture

And... boom goes the dynamite!

Bush gave us "Mission Accomplished". Obama gave us fake reform of that "mission accomplished".

http://www.fakenation.info/please/hyde-park-dreams-forgotten-obama-jeffrey-immelt-and-relationships-of-selfinterest

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:22 | 3629914 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You are of course right, Presidents as a rule always defend the expansion of their own powers. But we must assume that Obama is using these powers and agencies for internal political purposes, because his track record has been very consistent in this regard. And, we must entertain the idea that he might even be an agent of a foreign power.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:16 | 3630036 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

and perhaps you should entertain the thought that any president of the United States needs a long, long time to even grasp a fraction of what the millions of state employees actually do, and even longer to change anything

put it differently: why did Congress ever give those extraordinary powers to the president, either by law or by omission? year after year, electoral cycle after electoral cycle?

ordering the killing a foreigner on foreign soil used to be an Act of War - any US Congress before 1898 would have skinned any president doing a thing like that without an explicit, written permission - the equivalent of such an Act. but after 1945 the same Congress does not even bother to declare wars in the old, "Law of Nations" way

the simplest explanation I can give: you have a constitution made for a Republic* - a cousin of other Nations and a sister of other Democracies**, and a Congress that supports (with laws) an Empire

but go on and blame foreign powers if it makes you happier. after all, you might be right and most electoral propaganda money might well be flowing from foreign powers. but of course this is not possible to detect, then your same Congress made laws that make it impossible - in a time when this kind of contributions is increasing exponentially

you know as an outsider what is really maddening about US Republicans and Democrats? you don't even listen to each others anymore - this is a "Dem" complaint I'm repeating, and so I suspect you will probably reply with some Koch-Brother's one-liner or just dismiss it as an "other side's" "weird conspiracy"

rant end

------------------

(*) yes, a Republic, and (**) yes, a Democracy - no, you can be both - to paraphrase Franklin - if you don't stop wanting it

------------------

just to keep inside of the wire-tapping theme: here in europe, Italy has a similar issue. on one side they want to strip the judiciary the right of ordering such wiretappings, which are approaching the million per year (in a country of 65m). on the other side they defend the prerogatives of an utterly self-regulated and independent judiciary. a similar case of stuck politics, imho

------------------

btw, I have another comment for you here - I'm not picking on you, you just bring some stuff others bring in a more "absolute" manner

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 15:12 | 3631002 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

We both agree that the US has gradually fallen into the hands of despots over the last 100 years.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:51 | 3630067 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Yeah, but Obama was Mr. Hopey Changey. How's that working out?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:39 | 3629665 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Good luck factorising a 2,048 bit number.

Or 4096!

Or PGP inside of Tor, or Cryptohippie, or I2P, or.....

If people give a shit, they can protect themselves. If not, they are the Stasi's bitches."


It would require 1000 workstations 29 years to factor a 4096 bit number using GNFS, but it takes a 100 MHZ quantum only 4.8 hours.

http://adityalive.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/nsa-building-a-2-billion-quan...

http://singularityhub.com/2013/06/05/google-buys-quantum-computer-for-ar...

Go ahead with your bad self and your 4096 bit encryption......WELCOME TO PRISON PLANET....Stasi bitch.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:42 | 3629678 CH1
CH1's picture

Quantum computing is a LONG way from doing what you propose... Stasi Bitch!

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:13 | 3629858 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

CH1 is right. Encryption works for now. It's a constant battle between the opposing forces of anonymity and cyber-security.

At the moment the playing field seems somewhat level in cyber-space. That's why when nation-states feel threatened by the information that comes out via the .net they respond by shutting down the INTERNET for the entire country. No data leaves or enters the country. Talk about a blunt tool. This has happened in Egypt, China, Syria, N.Korea and many others. This kind of strategy implies that anonymity on the web is not only possible, but it's pervasive and they don't have any efficient ways to combat it at the moment.

How else could tech-savy, teenagers hack the CIA among others?

In the digital world, the playing-field is MORE level than anywhere else. For the meantime...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:51 | 3629739 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Oh another "quantum computer" reply.

Yeah, let me know when one actually exists.

And not one of those bullshit "specialized" non-peer reviewed D-Wave ones.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:59 | 3629783 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

And in terms of your 4,096 time scale - uh, no.

 

http://www.digicert.com/TimeTravel/math.htm

DigiCert's base standard is to use 2048-bit keys in secure SSL certificates - that is enormously stronger than anything Lenstra et al attempted, in fact, it would require factoring a 617-digit number. RSA Labs claim (see: http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) that 2048-bit keys are 2^32 (2 to the power of 32) times harder to break using NFS, than 1024-bit keys. 2^32 = 4,294,967,296 or almost 4.3 billion, therefore breaking a DigiCert 2048-bit SSL certificate would take about 4.3 billion times longer (using the same standard desktop processing) than doing it for a 1024-bit key. It is therefore estimated, that standard desktop computing power would take 4,294,967,296 x 1.5 million years to break a DigiCert 2048-bit SSL certificate. Or, in other words, a little over 6.4 quadrillion years.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:14 | 3629865 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"It is therefore estimated, that standard desktop computing power would take 4,294,967,296 x 1.5 million years to break a DigiCert 2048-bit SSL certificate. Or, in other words, a little over 6.4 quadrillion years."

<Chuckle>.......

Hey girlie girl.....if the Feds think you have something REALLY, REALLY, important stashed away behind your 4,096 bit encrypted cloaking device....it will take less than an hour for Fed backed goons in assault gear to kick down your door.

You use that strong enough encryption...and while NSA's Quantum computer is churning its way through it....they will flag you as a possible terrorist....for why in the world would you encrypt a phone call or a text message about you banging the neighbor's husband while yours is at work.....unless you're not REALLY banging the neighbor's husband....but are banging away on a bomb?

<Chuckle>.....you guys and your Hollywood fantasies about encryption......


Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:17 | 3629898 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

First off, my avatar is Anna Chapman. You really should try to keep up with events.

Second off, if you actually bothered reading my link below before spouting your uninformed nonsense, we could both have saved time.

Thirdly, you were wrong about something as basic as timelines for 4,096 bit encryption. I mean, FFS, all you had to do is google it, but you didn't - your number was an order of magnitude off. And now you think you're a fucking expert on a supposed NSA quantum computer. Uhuh.

Finally, I don't know why you even bothered posting some bullshit made-up-number, when your argument essentially boils down to "they're all brutes, and you can't possibly protect yourself". Pathetic.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:52 | 3630074 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I still prefer to imagine that you are Anna Chapman, aka EscapeKey ;-)

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:50 | 3630412 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I'm Anna Chapman, and so is my wife.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 16:20 | 3631186 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"First off, my avatar is Anna Chapman."

<Chuckle>....I already assume 99.9% of the posters here are male....but still.....girlie girl still applies .

My knowledge...though admittedly rumdimentary on the exact subjuct of quantum computing...is still more informed than yours since it is also based in common sense.....which you do not have.  You throw out numbers like a typical geek thinking that ....WOOH BIG NUMBER....means BETTER, FASTER, STRONGER.  Hey asswipe....ever stop to think why we need ever stronger encryption in the first place?  Because yesteryear's REALLY, REALLY BIG NUMBER got hacked by a 16 year old in an Eastern Bloc country.....now probably China.  Hell, the Russians have been putting us to shame on this for decades.

Also....my comment stands also that the FEDS do not need to crack any encryption at all.....it's just enough to have a suspicion of bad thoughts......

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/06/05/dept-of-homeland-security-lapt...

The NSA already has eyes and ears over EVERYTHING you do or say.....ever heard of behavioural algorithms....search function algorithms....keyword algorithms.....

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/06/nsa-spying-verizon-analy...

Ever heard of the "Internet of Things"?  Can you encrypt your dishwahser or your refrigerator....how about that Smart Meter showing what an energy hog you are at 3:00am in the morning while your hydroponics and lights are helping you grow your pot.......

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/

Yeah....go ahead girlie girl.....use your 4.096 bit encryption on your worthless little messages......when the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, Homeland Security, Google, EVERY PHONE COMPANY, and others....sees that you are trying to encrypt EVERY THING with 4,096 bit encryption and more when it comes out.....your behavior will be duly noted, tracked, and possibly punished throught the IRS.

<Chuckle>....all your intelligence.....ruined by a STUNNING amount of bullshit on the  brain.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 16:45 | 3631346 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Finally, I don't know why you even bothered posting some bullshit made-up-number, when your argument essentially boils down to "they're all brutes, and you can't possibly protect yourself". Pathetic."

<Chuckle>.......Sigh...another libertarian lunatic fantasy......"YEAH....I got me some 4,096 bit encryption so the FEDS can't see my grocery list."  YEAH.....!!!!!!

The Feds do not give a fuck at all about your encryption.....they know everything they need to know about you right now from PODM.....(P)lain (O)ld (D)ata (M)ining techniques.  They have for years.....and if they don't right now....it's just a phone call away from your bank, your ISP, your credit card company, Google, your phone company, your place of employment, your taxes, your GPS, and a WHOLE HOST of other things as well.....

And now, the FEDS give even less of a shit about your so call strong encryption....they are even so bold as to make a website for ALL to see, including our enemies what they are building, and why.  HELL....they even have a virtual MAGNIFYING GLASS to show you details.

http://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 16:55 | 3631376 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Oh....and I LOVE this little bit of "truthiness" from an NSA spokesmouth....particularly in light of today's revelations.....

An NSA spokesperson said, "Many unfounded allegations have been made about the planned activities of the Utah Data Center," and further said that......

"one of the biggest misconceptions about NSA is that we are unlawfully listening in on, or reading emails of U.S. citizens. This is simply not the case."[5]

 

Well.....OF COURSE you're not UN-LAWFULLY listening in on, or reading emails of U.S. citizens.  We have just learned from Congress (specifically Lyndsey Graham) and the executive branch (OBUMMER) that it is indeed LAWFUL to do so.  That wan't the point asshole....the point is....that you are doing it at all.....lawfully or unlawfully.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 21:14 | 3632136 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

OOOOOHHhhhhh....and the HITS just keep on COMING !!!!!.......

Good luck with the 4,096 bit encryption for your grocery list girlie girl.... LOL !!!!

"US SECRECTLY MINES DATA DIRECTLY FROM THE SERVERS OF NINE OF THE NATION'S LEADING INTERNET COMPANIES

They are: Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, and Apple.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100797046

The companies are "participating knowingly" in the operations, the Post reports.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 13:24 | 3630557 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You guys amuse me... such linear thinkers.  You need to...

 

(1) read and re-read^n Sun Tzu's THe Art of War, 'The Prince' and perhaps Von Clausewitz (Vom Kriege / On War).  This is mandatory reading for all mid and high level military people.  The first two books are also almost mandatory in many MBA schools.

(2) Think Asymmetric Competition.  We know from Sun Tsu that, when dealing with a stronger opponent, to never ever take them on in a full-frontal situation or on their terms. 

One asymmetric solution they can't get around (since you make the laws of physics your BNF) is:  Inflate their Bandwidth needs beyond belief.  E.g. you encrypt everything.  Especially if it's insignificant gibberish you don't care about.  This is the 'Distraction' part of the Magician's Trick (Distraction & Action), that you are now against them.  It's Info-Jiujitsu.

The 'Action' part is... If you have personal or otherwise sensitive stuff, be creative in moving that info (a) via low-tech that requires precious people resources, and (b) do it in plain sight.  You're now flooding them with 'Noise', not 'Intel'.

Let them know that We The People take our Constitutional rights to privacy seriously!

Their only counter-move, would be to force everyone to have an RFID implant -- thanks, you boot-licking sheep and pricks at Intel! But then we will have reached the proverbial "666" scenario, where no one is able to buy, sell or transact w/o them knowing about all the details.  Welcome to the Serpent's Prison Planet.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 16:29 | 3631282 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

One asymmetric solution they can't get around (since you make the laws of physics your BNF) is:  Inflate their Bandwidth needs beyond belief.  E.g. you encrypt everything.  Especially if it's insignificant gibberish you don't care about.  This is the 'Distraction' part of the Magician's Trick (Distraction & Action), that you are now against them.  It's Info-Jiujitsu.

<Chuckle>.....sort of like the digital version of Occupy Wall Street?  LOL....yeah...we saw how that went, didn't we?

 

  Once enough of you, who even have the wherewithal to use encryption on such a large, daily scale to someone with the appropriate knowledge and the key to unlock such encryption....which is a MINUTE FRACTION of the typical sheeple in front of his porn terminal....once enough of you do what you say.....there will be the expected digital jackboot response from the FEDS.

Encryption is simply sticking a red flag in the face of the bull.

You, we, are all going to have to go DEEP, underground and NON DIGITAL in order to survive....now that the FEDS control ALL TELECOMMUNICATIONS on this planet.

Always remember.....the internet was developed by DARPA during the Cold War in order to aide us in destroying Communist Russia during a nuclear attack.  And Google was seeded money by the CIA.

The apple does not fall far from tree.  But.....there are other types of fruit out there....if you know what I mean.  They just have fallen out of favor.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:47 | 3629708 slyhill
slyhill's picture

They dont need to crack it, or convict you of a crime. They can simply jail you for not giving them your key. 5th amendment? Ya, right...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:50 | 3629728 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

In the UK.....RIPA

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/contents

When the act was passed in 2000, only nine organisations, including the police and security services, were allowed access to communications records but privacy campaigners say that too many public bodies now have access to the information. In 2007, there were 519,260 requisitions of communications data from telephone companies and ISPs.

The nickname "snooper's charter" has clung to the act amid widespread public anxiety about the misuse of these powers. Concern was heightened in June 2008, when 121 councils revealed they had used the legislation during a 12-month period to monitor behaviour by examining the private communications of residents.

James Welch, legal director for Liberty, said: "It's one thing to use covert surveillance in operations investigating terrorism and other serious crimes, but it has come to a pretty pass when this kind of intrusive activity is used to police school catchment areas.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:56 | 3629757 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Ever heard of "plausible deniability"?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption

Deniable encryption allows an encrypted message to be decrypted to different sensible plaintexts, depending on the key used, or otherwise makes it impossible to prove the existence of the real message without the proper encryption key. This allows the sender to have plausible deniability if compelled to give up his or her encryption key. The notion of "deniable encryption" was used by Julian Assange and Ralf Weinmann in the Rubberhose filesystem[1] and explored in detail in a paper by Ran CanettiCynthia DworkMoni Naor, and Rafail Ostrovsky[2] in 1996.

 

Encode your message along with some embarrassing (but not illegal) porn. Give away the key to the porn.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:52 | 3630071 PlausibleDenial
PlausibleDenial's picture

Yes

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:22 | 3629919 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

How do you propose to encrypt your location and the calling and receiving numbers? Those numbers are indexed with your credit card information and activity and your Walgreen's, et al loyalty card purchases. Welcome to smart phones and "loyalty" and credit cards. Sheep have more freedom.

Encrypting the message makes you A LOT MORE interesting to the ones that are collecting this data.

When then deck is stacked this extensively, it's pretty hard to win.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:08 | 3629841 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

a one time pad (OTP) is unbreakable, or so it is said. Letter frequency is the first tool they use, looking for "e" in English for instance.

One time pads of out of date magazines (not found on Google books, etc) imply pre-arranged transfers of matching pads, so there is no spontaneous organizing with OTP.

I would suspect anyone offering a project with OTP to be agent provocateur.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:23 | 3629928 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I'd say a decent high-speed stream cipher would suffice. Salsa20/20 for instance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa20

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:53 | 3630081 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Nah, tin cans and string. Pure P2P. Almost quantum like. Almost.

The only secure system is one that doesn't exist.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:02 | 3630127 bullchit
bullchit's picture

Have you seen the size of the program that clones any number? it's tiny!

It seems Obonker has been ......oh, wait....
Regards. 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:03 | 3629507 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

drop phones paid with cash (while you can) or disposable debit.

....false names.....throw the phone away and buy new.....

 

FUCK Ma Bell and her evil fucking children.....

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:34 | 3629628 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

And keep them inside a shielded or metal ammo can from the store until you are ready to use.  Also don't use one near your house.   GPS and cell records are pretty good tracking records over time. 

Govt agent with a copy of phone records and Palantir Gotham:  Oh look, 5 disposable cell phones have been used around this one cell in the last couple of months.   Hey look, these also correspond to this one address in the business district. 

IRS agent with Palantir Gotham:  Oh those addresses correspond to these two people (Target #1 and Target#2) 

Third Agent :  Interesting findings, let's run that information across Google+, Facebook and the backend data inside pipl .... 

<Several Oracle/SQL queries later .... >

Third agent:  There's your guy .. <data dump commences> 

Give it a few more years (if not already) and all this shit will be automated.  

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:40 | 3629674 XitSam
XitSam's picture

It has been shown that that a home-work pair with a raduis of (as I recall) two blocks, can almost always uniquely indentify an individual. Can probably find the paper if necessary.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:32 | 3629632 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Or say whatever you want to whomever you want whenever you want and don't be a timid little pussy who's afraid of the state.  

(Not you, just in general)

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:17 | 3630224 V in PA
V in PA's picture

THANK YOU! About time someone said it.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:08 | 3629531 snr-moment
snr-moment's picture

Remind me again what that new spy center in UTAH is for...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:09 | 3629536 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Protecting the children, of course.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:41 | 3629679 XitSam
XitSam's picture

That was Janet Napolitano's theme when she was US Attorney for Arizona, and AZ attorney general and governor.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:25 | 3629603 Hundred Dollar Bonus
Hundred Dollar Bonus's picture

check out true crypt for open source entription of files.  It's great, especially if you use dropbox or google drive or others known to willing turn over private data to "investigators"

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:05 | 3629822 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"Use encrypted communication."

Why the FBI's plan to require weak security in all American technology is a terrible, terrible idea - Jun 4, 2013

http://boingboing.net/2013/06/04/why-the-fbis-plan-to-require.html

"CALEA II is the FBI's proposal to require all American computers, mobile devices, operating systems, email programs, browsers, etc, to have weak security so that they can eavesdrop on them"

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 12:03 | 3630133 seek
seek's picture

As EscapeKey says, use encryption if you must communicate.

For starters, try the Tor Browser Bundle: https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en which will at least let you surf the web anonymously.

EPIC provides resources as well: http://epic.org/privacy/tools.html

However, the prying eyes are everywhere. Your cell phone is not a phone, it's a tracking device that happens to make logged calls on demand. For years the world worked fine without wireless tech, just "forgetting" your phone a couple times a week goes a long way towards making the spy's data sets useless to them, since you could be hitting starbucks or the local AQ cell during those gaps in tracking. Pay with cash as well. Take different cars or carpool, anything that leaves with with a million terabyte shit sandwich is good.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 19:25 | 3631709 mkkby
mkkby's picture

@EscapeKey "Use encrypted communication."

Wrong.  This is about using the data to deduce everyone's contact list.  It's guilt by association.  If you are calling or being called by suspected terrorists, then you are suspect too.

Anyting electronic, wired/wireless has been captured and saved for a very long time.  Once your number is in a suspect call list, you can be targeted for listening into the content.  Of course, the real terrorists have known about this for over a decade.  They are using burners or other forms of communication. So it doesn't work, except to move us closer to the utopian police state, where the gov is safe from the people.

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:16 | 3629453 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

Another thing we can do this very moment is get on our knees and thank the merciful Lord for Zerohedge!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:39 | 3629666 bogbrush
bogbrush's picture

And the bastion of the Liberal Free Press, the UK Guardian for exposing this to a wider audience than you boneheads.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:06 | 3629525 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Absolutely, this is much deeper than Verizon, much deeper than "the Bush Administration" or "The Obama Administration" or any other paper "administration." This is a FUNDAMENTAL and DRAMATIC now BLATANT move to utterly destroy most constitutional principles under the guise of the "War on Terror" and "the Patriot Act" and to bring every single citizen under complete, constant and total surveilance 24 / 7. Don't take my word for it, listen to the 30 year veteran of the NSA who bailed out not long after 911 revealing the same games with AT&T. Utterly illegal. Remember that? More IMPORTANT, remember the COMPLETE IMMUNITY the "new administration" helped broker with the loyal puppy dog legislative branch lapping along?

(there is a decent disucssion with him and others on Democracy Now with morning) By the way, this NSA member was attacked in his home by the FBI not long after. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. As things hit the fan, the PTB are getting more and more nervous, paranoid and trigger happy. They have good reason to be. Like any criminal, they are getting increasingly worried that we dislike them and unlike the typical criminal, their information is special and guarded and their crimes are dramatic and global

MOST IMPORTANT: This entire "process" whatever the hell it is, is utterly secret and unconsitutional. It gives us no idea what content their are reviewing, how often they are reviewing, who they are reviewing etc etc etc. They should stop calling it The Patriot Act whose purpose is to monitor "foreign terrorists" and start calling it its true name - the Monitor US Citizens Act.

I laugh with near insanity as I go about my day to day pleas to judges for my minor "criminal" clients with their ounce of drugs and bar fights arguing that what the police did or what house they entered was illegal all the while realizing what an absurd theatre I'm playing knowing that at the highest levels this is all one sick joke....       

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:10 | 3629542 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

2 words : jury trial

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:48 | 3629716 pods
pods's picture

Or "jury nullification."

Juries judge the evidence AND the law.

pods

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:54 | 3629756 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

indeed, trick is how coax the jury into judging the Law when the word "nullification" is not allowed to be used in the courtroom.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 16:29 | 3631287 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

I would think the word would be used in the juryroom, not the courtroom. And even then, if you think about it a little, you would not necessarily "need" to use the word itself. You would just bring up the reasons/beliefs that, as a juror, you do not believe the law itself that the person is being prosecuted for is a correct and just law.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:51 | 3629741 machineh
machineh's picture

17 words from the Supreme Court:

“Criminal justice today is for the most part a system of pleas, not a system of trials.”

-- Justice Anthony M. Kennedy

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:57 | 3629764 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Jury trial to prosecutors is like a vacuum cleaner to dogs...  They'll gang rape you in traffic/municipal court, but get them outside home field advantage and the burden of proof magically appears.

Had a local traffic judge say this in open court, "I find that the state has not met its burden of proof and so I'm only going to fine you half."  Fucking hilarious...  Same judge also got busted by the state for charging additional fees for people who changed their plea...  Same judge who had a court reporter (paid for and brought by a defendant to transcribe the proceeding) forcibly removed from the court for just being present... 

Different ballgame on (de novo) appeal though.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:37 | 3630004 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

When I said the magic word "nullification" at jury selection, the whole panel was

dismissed.The judge was not amused.

I have never received a jury summons sinceC10 years), so I'm definitely

on a shit list somewhere.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:48 | 3629721 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Absolutely, this is much deeper than Verizon, much deeper than "the Bush Administration" or "The Obama Administration" or any other paper "administration." This is a FUNDAMENTAL and DRAMATIC now BLATANT move to utterly destroy most constitutional principles under the guise of the "War on Terror" and "the Patriot Act" and to bring every single citizen under complete, constant and total surveilance 24 / 7. Don't take my word for it, listen to the 30 year veteran of the NSA who bailed out not long after 911 revealing the same games with AT&T. Utterly illegal. Remember that? More IMPORTANT, remember the COMPLETE IMMUNITY the "new administration" helped broker with the loyal puppy dog legislative branch lapping along?

(there is a decent disucssion with him and others on Democracy Now with morning) By the way, this NSA member was attacked in his home by the FBI not long after. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. As things hit the fan, the PTB are getting more and more nervous, paranoid and trigger happy. They have good reason to be. Like any criminal, they are getting increasingly worried that we dislike them and unlike the typical criminal, their information is special and guarded and their crimes are dramatic and global

MOST IMPORTANT: This entire "process" whatever the hell it is, is utterly secret and unconsitutional. It gives us no idea what content their are reviewing, how often they are reviewing, who they are reviewing etc etc etc. They should stop calling it The Patriot Act whose purpose is to monitor "foreign terrorists" and start calling it its true name - the Monitor US Citizens Act.

I laugh with near insanity as I go about my day to day pleas to judges for my minor "criminal" clients with their ounce of drugs and bar fights arguing that what the police did or what house they entered was illegal all the while realizing what an absurd theatre I'm playing knowing that at the highest levels this is all one sick joke...."

 

George Carlin had it right......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7LvUDCcNss

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:51 | 3629735 slyhill
slyhill's picture

It's a nightmare. The best way to deal with the "legal" system is to stay the hell out of it.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:31 | 3629623 Georgiabelle
Georgiabelle's picture

Long carrier pigeons?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:46 | 3629698 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

I just called AT&T on it.  They dont have a clue.

In order to seize phone records en mass by court order, means every single account holder by name is  a listed suspect. It's the only way that can happen even if the "Threat" card is played.

The good news is, that is a direct violation of privacy, all the way up to the point you find out you are a named suspect in whatever they deem you suspected of.

A great opportunity to break the phone contract without being charged the cancellation fee! Nothing in the contract about the NSA  getting your phone records with out your knowledge or written consent.

Call Verizon, tell them they can have the phone records, the phone, the charger, your faceplant page, your google glasses and email account, the computer, the television, the news papers, the magazines, and shove 'em because your dropping out, tuning OUT and turning on.  Get it right..

 

How's that fascism smelling this morning??

 

The worst enemy of these fucking retards in the govt is TUNING OUT.

Refuse to listen to them, they hate that more than anything.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:56 | 3629765 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

From the desk of Randy Milch @ Verizon (212)395-2384

You may have seen stories in the news about a top secret order Verizon allegedly received to produce certain calling information to the U.S. government. 
 
We have no comment on the accuracy of The Guardian newspaper story or the documents referenced, but a few items in these stories are important.  The alleged court order that The Guardian published on its website contains language that:
compels Verizon to respond;
forbids Verizon from revealing the order’s existence; and
excludes from production the “content of any communication . . . or the name, address, or financial information of a subscriber or customer.” 
Verizon continually takes steps to safeguard its customers’ privacy.  Nevertheless, the law authorizes the federal courts to order a company to provide information in certain circumstances, and if Verizon were to receive such an order, we would be required to comply.
 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:30 | 3629961 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The US MSM can only report on it because its already been published overseas,

otherwise they can't say a thing.National Security Letters:you are not even allowed

to say you received one ,let alone appeal it.

Orwell must be spinning in his grave.

a solar flare seems our best hope at this point.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:53 | 3629462 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

We are all ending our calls with a hearty obama sucks and he is married to a wookie.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:55 | 3629472 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

That made milk come out of my nose, Boondock.  Brilliant!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:10 | 3629538 moonman
moonman's picture

Best post this week. Soince we know they are also trolling ZH.....obama sucks and he is married to a wookie

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:10 | 3629540 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I wonder if the NSA can profile this?

http://www.filmsound.org/starwars/wookie1.wav

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:22 | 3629589 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Make sure you belch into the phone for a "Hello" and then fart into it for "Goodbye".

Oh, by the way, Obama fucks a Wookie.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:38 | 3629663 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

We are all ending our calls with a hearty obama sucks and he is married to a wookie.

 

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about.  Fuck these band geeks that found success in the only place they could...government.  I think I'll begin my calls with I'd like to welcome the NSA cocksuckers listening to this call.  I'm reading the Constitution and cleaning my AR-15, just in case.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:52 | 3629743 Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

More specifically, he's married to Princess Leia the Vulcan Wookie...

http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2012-02-11T161746Z_01_WHT202_R...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:37 | 3630003 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

That was fucking terrifying.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 15:56 | 3631161 nc551
nc551's picture

We actually do the team america world police muslim interpretation... "Derka derka Allah, Muhammed Jihad"

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:58 | 3629486 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

The NSA also tried to eavesdrop on AT&T calls......but they kept getting dropped.

Things this confirms:

A) You know that conversation you've had with your friends at the bar when this topic comes up, and we all half heartedly joke that "Well, they're watching and spying on us, anyways". 

Well, we were right: THEY ARE IN FACT SPYING ON US ANYWAY.

B) Soon the NSA will be contracting out records for suspicious spouses and sig others. That's one way to "drive revenue" and will be sold to us as a way to "pay down the deficit"

C) In the end, this is a net positive for Wall Street.  Confirms that the statist thugs they employ are doing their job spying on protest groups, and this news will also create jobs as  various internet and cell providers will now have to employ more PR and marketing people to basically start their, "We won't share ur info with the govt/We are the anti-establishment cell provider!" campaign. 

DOW 36K!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:02 | 3629499 CH1
CH1's picture

AT&T and the NSA, since 2006 at least: http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/04/70619

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:56 | 3629768 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Personally I plan to write them a check for exactly $0.01 this month and write STOP GOVERNMENT SNOOPING on the front and the back.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:52 | 3629452 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

I dont' have anything to worry about as long as I'm not doing anything "wrong".

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:03 | 3629508 CH1
CH1's picture

as long as I'm not doing anything "wrong".

If you're not sucking your overlord's toes, you're doing something wrong.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:51 | 3629734 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Until you are a 'made member' of the current and rapidly growing administrative mob, everything you are doing can be deemed "wrong".

 

 

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 11:31 | 3629971 Jena
Jena's picture

Until you get blamed for something that you didn't do, or maybe do something that you didn't realize was against the 'new' rules...

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:04 | 3629516 stutes33
stutes33's picture

and the alternative is?

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:10 | 3629539 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Oh no he di'ent.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:46 | 3629699 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

But when the Russians call and specifically tell us theres a couple of terrorists in Boston???? ..theyre only interested in allowing one attack after another to take away every last glimmer of freedom.. " govt sponsored terrorism" they know it's coming and THEY SALIVATE!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:47 | 3629419 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

"But of course" Quote from an old "company" man when I asked him about the JFK "thing"

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:47 | 3629422 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

All your conversations is ours.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:53 | 3629460 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

...and so is your DNA.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:01 | 3629492 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

There is one and only one worldwide terrorist enity in the world today and it is the government of the United States..........

obummer is GWBush's little bro.........and all the fucking Zionist/Neo-cons from GWBush are still pulling the strings....

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 09:50 | 3629424 A is A
A is A's picture

Seriously, at this point, I'll take anarchy over the system we have now. I am sick and tired of this shit..........

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 10:04 | 3629511 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

You say that like it's a bad thing. Anarchy gets a bad rap based on actions attributed to it that should not be. The act of fighting an existing state and our existence without a state are two different things.

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