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White House Defends Its Wiretapping Of Millions Of US Citizens
Blink and you have likely missed Obama's latest Watergate moment, this time following the disclosure that the White House has instructed the NSA to collect millions of daily phone records from Verizon (and likely all other carriers). What is surprising to us is that this is even news. We reported on just this in March of 2012 with “We Are This Far From A Turnkey Totalitarian State" - Big Brother Goes Live September 2013" and then again in April 2012 "NSA Whistleblower Speaks Live: "The Government Is Lying To You" using an NSA whistleblower as a source. Still, no matter the distribution platform, it is a welcome development for the majority of the population to know that the same Stazi tactics so loathed for decades in the fringes of the "evil empire" are now a daily occurrence under the "most transparent administration in history." This is especially true in the aftermath of the recent media scandals involving the soon to be former Attorney General.
So what was the latest largely regurgitated news? Overnight te Guardian's Glenn Greenwald reports that the "NSA is collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily" following a "top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama."
Some more from the Guardian:
The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.
The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.
The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.
The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.
Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.
The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.
No it won't. Because those who care, have known about this for a long, long time. Everyone else... well, they have their soaring 401(k)s to comfort them, sprinkled in with a little class warfare to keep things "fair", and of course Dancing with the Stars.
Finally, the White House was quick to explain why living in a crypto-fascist, totalitarian state is the New Normal: it's for your own good, you see.
The Obama administration on Thursday acknowledged that it is collecting a massive amount of telephone records from at least one carrier, reopening the debate over privacy even as it defended the practice as necessary to protect Americans against attack.
The admission comes after the Guardian newspaper published a secret court order related to the records of millions of Verizon Communications customers on its website on Wednesday.
A senior administration official said the court order pertains only to data such as a telephone number or the length of a call, and not the subscribers' identities or the content of the telephone calls.
Such information is "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States," the official said, speaking on the condition of not being named.
"It allows counter terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States," the official added.
The revelation raises fresh concerns about President Barack Obama's handling of privacy and free speech issues. His administration is already under fire for searching Associated Press journalists' calling records and the emails of a Fox television reporter as part of its inquiries into leaked government information.
It was not immediately clear whether the practice extends to other carriers.
It does. But what is most stunning in all of this is that the benevolent rulers who are here to "help us" have not made selling of any security illegal and punishable by death. Yet.
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People often confuse anarchy with chaos.
I like to point out that we already live under a chaotic regime.
Only true anarchy is a step in the right direction to get those in power to stop throwing chairs through the proverbial Starbuck's windows.
"People often confuse anarchy with chaos."
Well, considering it's the black flag types who are typically the ones who start destroying things during a peaceful protest which then gives "the authorities" the excuse they need to shut the whole thing down, I can see where they get that impression.
With or without government, we will always live in some sort of "Animal Farm" because that's ALL we are. No matter how much we try to glorify ourselves, we are just slightly evolved apes with car keys.
Learn a little about your history, especially with that Avatar. Or do you really need me to link to multiple cases of agent provocateurs?
Oh, and please: Violence against property is nothing more than an Economic issue (for Krugman's sake, the "Broken Window" is even an economic theory); Violence against People is entirely different. Failing to make this distinction makes you a fool.
Conflating the two is the first rule of State domination, and how Corporations conflate Economic Violence with Organic Violence, then can pay meagre legal fees to avoid penalities for the latter. (If you need more; cf Anglo-Saxon Law, then Danish Blood Eagle - Weregild is a start, then move onto Christian "morality" punishments if you really need a lesson in the ).
Fucking pretentious twat: this is 101 level theory on violence. Orwell was part of the Spanish Revolution, remember?
p.s. If you don't think the current mish-mash of pathetic responses to Object / Organic damage in Law are stupid, you know nothing. Nietzsche was writing about this in the 19th Century, ffs, and modern America is *less developed* than his descriptions. Let alone Bentham (Oh, wait - Prison Labor, check) or later authors.
"Anarchy" is definitely a human and political term used by criminal powers to trick regular folks into disliking natural systems like well... captialism. The more I study natural systems, like permaculture and animal behavior and geologic truths the clearer it gets - letting things "work" their way out naturally is the only way it works, the only way things actually get "fixed." There has to be a balance, there has to be competeing interests, there has to be a very very wide diversity of players or the system, however devious or "brilliant," is destined to collapse
You may be my favorite poster on this site.
Thanks mom
forget what I said, we CAN make it to dinner on Sunday
Anarchy for the USA. It's coming someday, maybe.
I think there's a song for that. Sid Lives!
Not until the CheesePopes have stripmined all the wealth from the lower & middle classes & fled to CheesePopeistan homeland where they can't be extradicted.
Well that's kind of part of this Marxist con man's game plan.
There are 87,504 governmental units in the United States. Getting rid of ONE would hardly be anarchy.
Don't make it a binary thing, it scares the shit out of those still hooked on the blue pills (not viagra)
BULLISH!!!
What can we do? literally ....
bend over
Good question. For an answer, see my post above
Boycott Verizon and hit them in the only place they care about... literally THE ONLY PLACE
Stupid idea... Phone companies are victims here as well. There really is no solution. All empires over reach, then crash and burn. Afterwards, something new and hopefully better can happen -- but not until. Goliath is too powerful now.
Withdraw... revolution, one act at a time... http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/random-acts-of-revolution-06012013
Great link. thanks.
What can we do? literally ....
Stop Obeying Them!
> What can we do? literally ....
Self-censor. It's what the Soviets and E. Germans did... until they started killing themselves.
Seems the Boomers already have a head start.
stop being such a good consumer, for starters.
Laugh in their faces.
Do it in public with a lot of media around. It hurts them and there isn't shit they can do about it (for now)
Avoid debt and wait for the FED/FEDgov to implode.
It is baked into the cake already.
pods
I"m sure none of it will be used for political purposes.
I'm sure the NSA under Obama is totally apolitical. Like the IRS. And the DOJ.
Don't forget the EPA and NEA.
Yes, the NEA. Because to change the meaning of words is not easy.
"We reward our friends, and punish our enemies."
Let's say some opposition leader (as if, but bear with me) has a mistress. There's a repeating number in his cellphone records. They track it. Then if they're serious, they do the PI thing and track her, get some pics of them together. Done.
Maybe like the head of the CIA?
Yeah, kinda like that. But there I think they used an agent.
--Adolf Hitler.
del
As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children...
"Newtown Committee Votes to Raze Sandy Hook School"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732374460457847621022299189...
"Malloy Signs Bill To Withhold Homicide Photos, Other Records, After Newtown"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/hc-secret-foi-newtown-060...
Why destroy and/or hide all the evidence? Why, for the kids, of course.
"Why destroy and/or hide all the evidence?"
To be honest I never saw hard evidence of anything backing the main story of that event.
Unfortunately, the American masses of today are nowhere near as intelligent as the German masses were back then.
The MSM is silent on this...because its Obama..this is the big problem....just think if it was Bush....the screams....
...uh, one of the stories is from Reuters. How much more MSM can it get?
You realize that Bush was doing the same exact thing right? The only difference is that Bush didn't bother to get a warrant from a court, while Obama actually got a warrant from Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
The difference in media coverage is that Bush's spying really wasn't covered that much, while Obama's is front-page news everywhere.
wrong jbeyer. Read the article. Bush did do similar things, but not indiscriminantly, not on this scale, and not against presumed innocent Americans.
Irrelevant though, about Bush or Obama. THIS NEEDS TO END NOW!
wrong Big Slick, here is what Bush did, he collected plenty of CDRs of innocent Americans: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm
I knew it would be Bush's fault.
I'm not saying it is Bush's fault. But where was the right-wing outrage when Bush did it? Very few on the right spoke up when Bush was ramming through the Patriot Act.
Actually there was quite a bit of right wing outrage, on sites like this, and elsewhere, even that 'loon' Alex Jones.
Of course, those same voices were drowned out by the same MSM which works with whatever administration is handing out the milk bones. So, those that spoke out were branded lunatics, conspiracy theories, etc.
Let's not forget there is NO difference between the two parties. And, since the left appears to be the church you attend, let's not forget who authored the majority of the Patriot Act....Joe BIden.
Wake up
We were too busy being cat herded into the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.
The evidence is pretty clear to me. There are jackasses on both sides that are taking are freedom. No doubt. But are you ready to call out your side of the ailse for infringing on our freedoms as the Tea Party people are doing on their side? I have yet to see anyone. That my friend is very telling.
oops, replied to wrong post.
I'm not here to defend Bush. But if you read the story that you linked from 2006 closely, you'll see that the Obama administration has gone several steps beyond what Bush did.
From an information-gathering perspective, Obama seems much more concerned with what is happening INSIDE the country than outside the country.
Why, it's almost like he's a foreign agent working deep behind enemy lines. Or something.
the propagandists win if u try to discriminate. I hated Bush too but this administration has only increased every unconstistutional thing they did. This will continue with each one until this place blows.
Obama got a warrant from FISC to take EVERYBODY's phone records? Are you an idiot?
It's called reading comprehension. Try to actually read some of the article content, instead of simply reading the headline. FISC did provide a warrant for what the current administration is doing.
You're right, I skimmed past that. And once again I was deceived by the remnants of my belief in the judicial system: a blanket warrant? Oxymoron. A blanket warrant is martial law and suspension of the Bill of Rights. But its comforting to know that we have this kind of oversight.
Back when we had the Rule of Law, I believe judges would classify something like this as a "fishing expedition".
In colonial times, they were called Writs of Assistance allowing an officer to search any place, at any time and the officer was not responsible for damage he caused.
FISC is a Star Chamber armed with a rubber stamp. Can you really call it a "warrant" if it never gets turned down??
"It is also rare for FISA warrant requests to be turned down by the court. Through the end of 2004, 18,761 warrants were granted, while just five were rejected"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveill...
He's a typical "but...but Bush" Obama apologist, so yes he's an idiot.
UUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH! This is NOT POLITICAL! There is the state and it works in its best interest which works against your best interest. There are NO good guys in this equation. Don't be an idiot.
Stalin had a name for people like you....umm, 'Useful..." I can't remember...but you know, it fits.
A warrant means he got permission from another branch of the government. Which means there can be no assumption that someone will be protected in court. All the cards are stacked against you. And forget Bush, Newt just said he supports it "if used in counterterrorism". Which means he supports it fully. So there is no political opposition to this whatsoever.
This is not directed at you, but the "yeah, Bush did it to" underscores the hopelessness of this
It's a little bit late to blame Bush, he's been passed out in a pool of his own vomit for five years now.
Brother Nathanael on the Utah Data Center: http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=714
Your brand of cognitive dissonance is what has proven fatal to the republic.
You snivleing politico prick.
I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!!
Say it.
Repeat after me as many times as necessary...
I will not comply
I will not comply
I will not comply
Maybe they'll figure out just how worthless their "do not call" program is.
OT - As of this morning JPM has 412,530 ounces of gold registered, and been notified it must deliver 582,900 ounces, meaning they are 170,000 ounces (~5 tonnes) in the hole.
Your margin is calling! Awesome!
who talks on the phone anymore?
A secret judge approved it, so it must be AOK!
Correction: It was Roger Vinson, Judge, U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court
Roland Friesler on vacation?
I wonder how fast the NSA will catch searches for Vinson's home address?
I can hear the judge now saying "where did I put that rubber stamp?"
Right on top of the envelope of full of pictures of you with your boyfriend?
Pay as you go unlocked cell phones and change the sim cards every so often. Yeah it is a bitch having to change your phone number each time but it solves this problem real quickly.
The fallacy of this whole thing is these draconian dragnet approachs never catch the people they are actually looking for only the bottom of the food chain types (no shortage of stupid but stupid is not the real 'national security' threats).
Agreed.
This is why the entire NSA/Utah data center is just another contractor rip off of dot gov funds. Nobody in their right mind thinks for one minute that this will catch terrorists. Everyone has known about this for over a decade and can take simple steps to work around.
"data such as a telephone number or the length of a call, and not the subscribers' identities"
I'm sorry Sir, can you explain how, having the phone number, the subscriber is not identified? Thank you.
Pay as you go sim cards, phone cloning, etc. Still have to deal with issues like geo-locating but it is possible to anonymously use cell service without encryption.
Incoming calls are a problem if your contact doesn't know your phone number.
Let's assume you'd convey that information beforehand to those you wish to communicate with using your pre-paid/cloned phone. How to do it is a whole 'nother topic in and of itself as far as privacy and anonymity goes.
You can buy a trac phone at Walmart. Pay cash. No data/email, just calling. Pay cash for additional minutes. The Gubmint won't know who is using the phone, at least til their computers determine that based on who you've been calling when and from where.
From 'hope and change' to how best to fight this evil monster in just four years...
.....if you hear something, say something.
I think the govmint can still drop a missile on your head based on where the cell phone is.
Not if you take the battery out when not in use. The rules of the old days apply still about not talking too long on a line to avoid be located by triangulation which is still needed even with cell phones.
- Forward Link
- E911
So, no, not even that method is completely safe. The only way to win is not to play (or, in this case, call).
Removing the battery is a hard off (unless on the new phones they have a coin cell or equivalent battery hidden in the guts now, easy enough to find out with a little dissecting ) .............. E911 only applies in the US either way a hard off is off as opposed to a soft off which can be turned back on remotely cough *qwest* cough.
There are lots of ways to block the transmit and in turn receive capabilities of a cellphone even with only a soft off. They only operate on a few certain fixed bands and that is all public information.....
If the phones for shits and giggles are operating outside these bands then they weren't meant for being put into the commercial distribution chain, fast and furious bitchez either intentionally or not with one caveat as we know.......
Well, a brilliant young lady from CA just invented a supercapacitor for recharging a cell phone in a minute.
Betcha that's going to be standard equipment that negates any battery removal.
Nope technology is not there yet to run on 'free energy' alone yet and even if you could at this point it ain't going to fit in your pocket let alone a cell phone. And for shits and giggles if she did, the big battery manufacturers/corporate parents will squash her in 2 seconds to protect their revenue streams just as JP Morgan did to Tesla by pulling his funding on Tesla coils when he realized all the dollars it would have cost him if he was successful in creating wireless power transmission network that actually worked.......
Go on, buy it on credit card ......
..on someone elses yeah
bingo
Apparently Bush started it all....
"
The collection of communications logs — or calling “metadata” — is believed to be a major component of the Bush administration’s program of surveillance that took place without court orders. The newly disclosed order raised the question of whether the government continued that type of information collection by bringing it under the Patriot Act."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us/nsa-verizon-calls.html?hp
EDIT: It doesn't matter whether you swallow the red pill or the blue pill.
OK, let's throw him in jail, too. But it doesn't excuse that it's happening...
gotta go, Honey Boo Boo is on
The western Governments are wiretaping the countries.
Wouldn't you think that that is a lot more difficult than buying up all Dow and S&P along with most of bonds?
What is more complicated:
1) Buying up the whole stock market and bond market?
2) Wiretapping a whole 300 million country population?
ekm crude is just having a good laugh. This little selloff in the market has done nothing to drop the price. Crazy.
Follow crude and crude only. Then you'll see the game.
Nixon by comparison was a saint and should take the place of Lincoln at the memorial.
. . . and Johnson was piece of shit who should have been buried in a compost heap.
After careful consideration, I must concur.
Johnson was offal so foul that I'd be reluctant to use any compost containing his remains. My fear is that its use would render the ground a wasteland upon which nothing wholesome would grow, similar to what H.P. Lovecraft described as a "blasted heath" in his story The Colour Out of Space.
Johnson is probably (though we can't be sure) the only president who murdered his predecessor.
Means, motive, opportunity. Reroute the motorcade for mah Dallas homeys ...
He bankrupted us with Vietnam and the Great Society. That led directly to Nixon's default.
I hate Al-Qaeda and their plans for world domination so much, that I'm OK with this.
9/11.....Never again.
you forgot the sarc....
Meanwhile, the spin doctors are still working on excuses (er justification) for spying on people through their TV sets and cameras in their phones and home computers. Stay tuned, that story isn’t due out until next month.
But hey, it isn't all bad. Everyone who behaves is going to get a free pizza on the 4th of July.
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=baf1ddf4-78a0-422a-9736-8493b389b169
I covered that thing up years ago. My wife and friends laughed at me. Called some sort of conspirarcy nut. Then I get the "you're not doing anything interesting anyway". Bullshit. Not to paranoid, anti-social government workers. The most mundane things are interesting to them.
"Meanwhile, the spin doctors are still working on excuses (er justification) for spying on people through their TV sets and cameras in their phones and home computers."
The new Internet connected Xbox One should be very useful for that with its always on HD video camera and microphone, always on to await your command. I'm sure that will be heavily malware hacked as will be any other future device in something that will probably be the trend for home entertainment electronics.
Wouldn't that be fun to route it back to the spy that's spying on you?
... we live in a country where kindergartener is suspended from school because he brought a tiny lego gun to class.
What's this site about anymore?
I'm a few weeks from my 4 year ZH degree and it ain't the same school I enrolled in
Having a real hard time dealing with reality are we?
Please define reality. Everyday it seems as if everything gets less and less real.
> What's this site about anymore?
Pointing out the fact that we live in a fucking cartoon? That reality has gone completely virtual and that silly shit you learned in History and Social Studies classes in Publik Skool is a meaningless fairytale.
WTF do you want? Charts and graphs and 'investing' conversation? Go to Yahoo.
L0L.
and once you get the message you can put down the phone
In the four years since you enrolled at ZHU, the Gubmint of the country in which ZHU is located has gone totalitarian.
You'd prefer that this rather important development be left out of the curriculum?
It's just gallows humor at this point.. if this site really wants to discuss these points they should include a class on TOR network next semester but that would be boring 'work' and 'effort' and not fear factory click and bitch stuff right?
How about a guest post on TOR network from you?! I will read it....
I'm headed that way... write ups on 3d printing, bitcoins and tor.. sure
high time I left the peanut gallery I guess
from the "kinda OT" link from onetinsoldier, CAF answers that question here:
http://youtu.be/m-xjFkW2NuE?t=23m44s
The internet may hit peak sarcasism snark after this news
It's an absolute fucking outrage.
If they can do this, they can "place" you anywhere. Including the scene of a crime. Or "conspiring with suspicious people". Then some federal prosecutor shits down your throat and freezes your everything. That's how you make people publicly disappear.
They deserve no benefit of the doubt on this.
And quite frankly, all telecom providers should destroy the ability for this data to be collected. But they're not real Americans working for these companies. They're tools.
And the courts? Embarrassments. Of course they agreed that their employer is allowed to do whatever the hell they want.
Let's let that fuckwad press secretary answer a few softball questions on this and snarkily tell us it's a dead issue. There's a special place in hell for these people.
I have no cell phone, and am weaning myself off from the I net. Comcast is cancelled this month, and the chickens and the garden need a tending too. Not to mention, the rotty needs a long walk in the wilderness, where I can establish detailed communications with God almighty, for the foreseeable coming of our Lord Christ Jesus. Amen
Good solution! Ignore the problem and it will go away.
Good luck with that.
Jesus is the solution. An gold and silver and food and ammo........
and That is the whole point.
In order to have supreme power, the fuhrer must be able to have anyone declared a state enemy.
these people are going to create a lot of death, my friends.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
ron paul was the only GOP presidential candidate who did not want the Patriot Act extended
I junked ya for thinking Ron Paul was a real contender for a fake position and not a ConOp ragdoll.
"Dr. No" - lol.
KGB
Yeah, but I sure feel a lot safer now. S/off
“This confirms what we had long suspected,” says Cindy Cohn, an attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), a civil liberties organization that has long accused the government of operating a secret dragnet surveillance program. “We’ve been suing over thissince 2006.”
The order is based on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows law enforcement to obtain a wide variety of “business records,” including calling records. EFF has long criticized Section 215, which sets a threshold for obtaining records much lower than the “probable cause” standard required to get a search warrant.
But Cohn argues that the kind of dragnet surveillance suggested by the Verizon order exceeds even the authority granted by the Patriot Act. “Section 215 is written as if they’re going after individual people based on individual investigations,” she says. In contrast, the order leaked to the Guardian affects “millions and millions of innocent people. There’s no way all of our calling records are relevant to a terrorism investigation.”
“I don’t think Congress thought it was authorizing dragnet surveillance” when it passed the Patriot Act, Cohn says. “I don’t think Americans think that’s OK. I would be shocked if the majority of congressmen thought it’s okay.”
“I don’t think the government’s been getting away with this because everybody thinks they’re right,” she argues. Rather, it’s because “they’ve kept the details sufficiently secret” to prevent public discussion of the program.
Cohn believes the Verizon order is part of a program that Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) began warning the public about in 2011. “Most Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted Section 215 of the Patriot Act,” Wyden wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. last year. But until now he has been legally prohibited from sharing details of the government’s secret program.
Wyden ties Section 215 to “secret law,” taking swing at Justice Dept. transparencyhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wyden-takes-swing-at-justice-departments-transparency-on-intel-collection/2011/09/21/gIQAJJFLrK_story.html
The Federales liked the way Lockdown and Search Everyone worked in Boston. But wait, there's more !
Kind of OT:
I found an interview that, to me, FINALLY explains in a clear and easy to understand way, just what the hell is going on in this world. Although Gold and Sound Money is in the title of the interview, it's actually less about that than it is about the OVERALL BIG PICTURE.
Will this be some kind of big revelation to most ZH'ers? Probably not. But, like me, you might find that it's a excellent explanation of what's been happening to (most of)us, and I believe is an excellent piece to show to others so that they too can understand. I wish this would go viral!
Again, the interview isn't so much about Gold. It's is more about everything else.
USAWatchdog - Greg Hunter Interviews Catherine Austin Fitts
Gold Going to More of a Sound Money System
Catherine is one of the Good Guys. Some really good stuff by her over the years.
Would highly recommend;
Follow the bottom links for each segment.
http://www.dunwalke.com/1_Brady_Bush_Bechtel.htm
"How the Money Works" in the Illicit Drug Trade
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/narco.html
And interview with Chris Martenson
Straight Talk with Catherine Austin Fitts: We Are Victims of A Financial Coup D'Etat
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/straight-talk-catherine-austin-fitts-we-are-victims-financial-coup-detat/51951
Thanks so much for the Catherine link.
The government wants to know everything about everyone...You are all enemies of the state unless proven otherwise...
Ding ding ding!
Correct. You now move onto the next round, which is Going Galt!
Incorrect. The State is our enemy.
So the Founding Fathers believed but since Woodrow Wilson Americans have not been so sure
How right you are!
I stand corrected. I thank the stars it's not politcally correct we're talking here!
What political party did verizon donate to?
Unleash the homing pigeons..
There's no material difference between the intellectual vanguard of today's democrat faction and its marxist, socialist, and communist ancestors.
They're Fascists, not marxist, socialist or communist. Fascist. Unfortunately, in America today people react a lot more negatively to "Marxist," "Socialist," and "Communist" than they do to the word "Fascist." Misuse of the term "Marxist" is almost universal, on both the left and the right. When you merge State and Corporate power to facilitate the accumulation of wealth and control to a small elite, it's not "Marxism," "Communism," of "Socialism." It's Fascism, and I include the USSR, North Korea, China, etc. in that.
The trend in American politics over the past 40 years has been nakedly Fascist. That's the end-stage of corporate finance capitalism.
You are correct on the history, however, Obama is ideologically speaking, a Marxist. That is absolutely clear.
Because fascism and marxism are both forms of socialism, Obama is comfortable working with the fascist infrastructure to accomplish his marxist goals.
Remember that fascists typically focus most of their aggression outside their national borders, while marxists prefer to focus on internal suppression and slaughter.
That's why Obama is winding down the external wars, and focusing on internal "threats". That's the way marxists operate.
Buckaroo Banzai, when it comes to ideologies, there ain't such thing... in America
face it, you have the wrong electoral system for an ideology based political discourse where minute differences in a continuum from fascist to conservatives to centrists to social democrats to socialists to communists are relevant for the electoral outcome
and this is only the Left to Right spectrum that leaves the Statist to Liberal to Libertarian to Anarchic continuum out of the picture
your "fascist...outside / marxists...inside" is utterly undefensible if you look in history - but this would be foreign history
Obama would be a social democrat or at most a socialist, here, and a failed one, too, because he didn't introduce a single payer system in healthcare
but go on and use non-American labels for American political stances. That's the way you operate
btw, I have another comment for you here - I'm not picking on you, you just bring some stuff others bring in a more "absolute" manner
"Obama would be a social democrat or at most a socialist, here, and a failed one, too, because he didn't introduce a single payer system in healthcare"
How do you like living under Communism? Because that's what you are living under. I don't give a shit what you or anybody else calls it, that's what it is.
I complain a lot about this country, but with full knowledge that the rest of the world is a complete shithole, politically speaking.
BB, which one is cheaper? The current US system or the UK single "communist" payer system? look at the numbers, from time to time
"It allows counter terrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States," the official added.
Sooooooooooooooooo, if the purpose is to help identify who was in touch with terrorists......why can't they just subpoena the specific numbers that were in contact with the terrorists?
Why would they need the whole database?
It started with Bush
"imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever" - 1984 - than we where made a promisse of change ..
..
and all we got was Obama puting The Boot on the Left leg and icreasing the shoe size
Obama: "Peace Prize Muthafuckas"