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The NSA's "Boundless Informant" Collects 3 Billion Intelligence Pieces From US Computer Networks In One Month

Tyler Durden's picture


There's one reason why the administration, James Clapper and the NSA should just keep their mouths shut as the PRISM-gate fallout escalates: with every incremental attempt to refute some previously unknown facet of the US Big Brother state, a new piece of previously unleaked information from the same intelligence organization now scrambling for damage control, emerges and exposes the brand new narrative as yet another lie, forcing even more lies, more retribution against sources, more journalist persecution and so on.

The latest piece of news once again comes from the Guardian's Glenn Greenwald who this time exposes the NSA's datamining tool "Boundless Informant" which according to leaked documents collected 97 billion pieces of intelligence from computer networks worldwide in March 2013 alone, and "3 billion pieces of intelligence from US computer networks over a 30-day period."

This is summarized in the chart below which shows that only the middle east has more active NSA-espionage than the US. Also, Obama may not want to show Xi the activity heatmap for China, or else the whole "China is hacking us" script may promptly fall apart.

Using simple, non-AES 256 breaking math, 3 billion per month amounts to some 100 million intrusions into the US per day, or looked at from another perspective, just a little more than the "zero" which James Clapper vouched announced earlier today is the applicable number of US citizens falling under the NSA's espionage mandate: "Section 702 cannot be used to intentionally target any U.S. citizen, or any other U.S. person, or to intentionally target any person known to be in the United States." Oops.

But it gets worse for the NSA. As the Guardian reports, "Emmel, the NSA spokeswoman, told the Guardian: "Current technology simply does not permit us to positively identify all of the persons or locations associated with a given communication (for example, it may be possible to say with certainty that a communication traversed a particular path within the internet. It is harder to know the ultimate source or destination, or more particularly the identity of the person represented by the TO:, FROM: or CC: field of an e-mail address or the abstraction of an IP address). Thus, we apply rigorous training and technological advancements to combine both our automated and manual (human) processes to characterize communications – ensuring protection of the privacy rights of the American people. This is not just our judgment, but that of the relevant inspectors general, who have also reported this."

In other words, Americans are absolutely the target of billions of monthly intrusions, but said data "mining" is exempted because it is difficult to identify in advance if a US citizen is implicated in any metadata chain.

Only it isn't as it is the whole premise behind Boundless Informant.

An NSA factsheet about the program, acquired by the Guardian, says: "The tool allows users to select a country on a map and view the metadata volume and select details about the collections against that country."


The focus of the internal NSA tool is on counting and categorizing the records of communications, known as metadata, rather than the content of an email or instant message.


The Boundless Informant documents show the agency collecting almost 3 billion pieces of intelligence from US computer networks over a 30-day period ending in March 2013. One document says it is designed to give NSA officials answers to questions like, "What type of coverage do we have on country X" in "near real-time by asking the SIGINT [signals intelligence] infrastructure."


Under the heading "Sample use cases", the factsheet also states the tool shows information including: "How many records (and what type) are collected against a particular country."


A snapshot of the Boundless Informant data, contained in a top secret NSA "global heat map" seen by the Guardian, shows that in March 2013 the agency collected 97bn pieces of intelligence from computer networks worldwide.


Iran was the country where the largest amount of intelligence was gathered, with more than 14bn reports in that period, followed by 13.5bn from Pakistan. Jordan, one of America's closest Arab allies, came third with 12.7bn, Egypt fourth with 7.6bn and India fifth with 6.3bn. 


Next up: more NSA lies of course.

The disclosure of the internal Boundless Informant system comes amid a struggle between the NSA and its overseers in the Senate over whether it can track the intelligence it collects on American communications. The NSA's position is that it is not technologically feasible to do so.


At a hearing of the Senate intelligence committee In March this year, Democratic senator Ron Wyden asked James Clapper, the director of national intelligence: "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"


"No sir," replied Clapper.


Judith Emmel, an NSA spokeswoman, told the Guardian in a response to the latest disclosures: "NSA has consistently reported – including to Congress – that we do not have the ability to determine with certainty the identity or location of all communicants within a given communication. That remains the case."


Other documents seen by the Guardian further demonstrate that the NSA does in fact break down its surveillance intercepts which could allow the agency to determine how many of them are from the US. The level of detail includes individual IP addresses.


IP address is not a perfect proxy for someone's physical location but it is rather close, said Chris Soghoian, the principal technologist with the Speech Privacy and Technology Project of the American Civil Liberties Union. "If you don't take steps to hide it, the IP address provided by your internet provider will certainly tell you what country, state and, typically, city you are in," Soghoian said.




At a congressional hearing in March last year, Alexander denied point-blank that the agency had the figures on how many Americans had their electronic communications collected or reviewed. Asked if he had the capability to get them, Alexander said: "No. No. We do not have the technical insights in the United States." He added that "nor do we do have the equipment in the United States to actually collect that kind of information".

Turns out they do, and that perjury in the US is now merely another facet of the "New Normal." Plus what difference does it make that yet another member of the most transparent administration perjured themselves. Then again, when the head of the Department of Justice is being investigated for lying to Congress under oath, one can only laugh.

That laughter risks becoming an imbecilic cackle when reading the following veiled threat to the Guardian from the NSA's Judith Emmel: "The continued publication of these allegations about highly classified issues, and other information taken out of context, makes it impossible to conduct a reasonable discussion on the merits of these programs."

In other words, the best discussion is one that would simply not take place as reporters should promptly stop actually reporting, and fall back to their New Normal role of being access journalists to important people (see Andrew Ross Sorkin's rise to fame on... nothing) with zero critical insight or investigative effort. Or else...


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Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:18 | 3638168 TeamDepends
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Cheers to all of us on the red list!

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:26 | 3638182 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Fuckers! Time to impeach that MotherFucker-in-Chief.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:33 | 3638200 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Christ just erect a fence around my house and come on inside already. The games of make believe are getting old. Fuckers.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:42 | 3638225 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

the rise of the Nazis a history in posters from 1933 to 1939


compare and contrast

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:51 | 3638247 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

The German National Socialists were legit.  Hussein Obama is an affirmative action joke who can't even put together a sentence without a fucking teleprompter.

Not only does my cat have a superior moral structure to Hussein Obama, I suspect that he has an IQ at least as high, if not higher, than most of Hussein's worshipers.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:54 | 3638261 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And he was a fucking male cheerleader.  Oh, that was the other guy.  Get a grip Bastiat.  Obama is not calling the shots.  He's a figurehead and he was put in place precisely to make you hate him, just like the mindless windshield cowboy born again with a silver spoon he replaced.  You see, the idea is to get guys like you to focus on the figurehead rather than the guys calling the shots.  Seems to work quite well, doesn't it.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:27 | 3638276 AlaricBalth
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Section 702 of FISA states that the government is not authorized to "intentionally target" a person within the US.

Seems to me the government is using the power of exponentiation to get around the law. How many of you remember "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon"? The theory is, that any two people on Earth are, on average, about six acquaintance links apart. Imagine "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" on steroids as the NSA's massive supercomputers link, by association, everyone globally.

In essence, the government may be targeting Mr. X in Pakistan, for example, and then consequently search for any and all associations of Mr X. Once those various associations are identified then the government discovers new associations. And so on and so on...

Eventually, through exponentiation, the government has "unintentionally" gathered information on practically everyone in the US, although no one was specifically targeted.

9 Mr. X's to the 9th power is over 387 million people.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:26 | 3638550 macholatte
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not authorized to "intentionally target" a person within the US.


Maybe it's not even that complicated. They target everyone and by default are not picking on anybody so they are not "intentionally targeting" a person.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:20 | 3638584 AlaricBalth
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I agree that the government hides behind that word “targeting,” which doesn’t do anything substantive to prevent the NSA from reading American communications without a warrant. Yet the target must originate outside US soil. Once information on a target has been gathered, where that information leads is fair game. They are utilizing a loophole in the FISA law large enough to drive a truck through. Which is why they used the term "targeting" rather than "targeting, querying and searching".

My point being, if you have enough targets (the base number for the exponential operation), then the exponent, or power number, determines how large a population can be searched within the letter of the FISA law. As I said, it is a loophole which was inserted into Section 720 to circumvent the protections they claim are codified into FISA. The government virtually assured the inevitable spying on US citizens while being able to claim protections were written into the law.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 02:19 | 3638640 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

If a person has close friends, they probably do not communicate over cell phones, but actually talk face to face. To hear those conversations requires craftwork, not computers.  The computers are needed to sweep up all the kids playing GTA for the 5th time. 

I appreciate TPTB keeping the streets clean of home grown terrorists.  If anyone that reads this wants to impress me.  Seriously.  The Food for Less in my fathers neighborhood on Indian/Alessandro in Moreno Valley, CA 92553 is just getting ransacked all the time.  Please help the people running the store.  I might make this worth to you.



Sun, 06/09/2013 - 03:09 | 3638662 Au Member
Au Member's picture
This might be total bollocks but here's an article on govt spying: DHS insider: It’s about to get very ugly

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:02 | 3638765 GetZeeGold
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We the people.....are the enemies of the state.


I vote we do Agenda reverse.


I also vote we turn the UN into a soup kitchen.....then it can finally do some real good for humanity.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:10 | 3638851 francis_sawyer
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"You see, the idea is to get guys like you to focus on the figurehead rather than the guys calling the shots.."


Ha! That's a good one... While it's probably true [on the surface], what usually happens when somebody, like francis_sawyer, actually DOES focus on the "guys" calling the shots?... (Such as, the asymmetrical makeup of the Bilderbergs, CFR, Trilateral Commission, BIS, IMF, 'families' who are shareholders of the [non]Federal [non]Reserve, and most of the top spots in banking, MSM, jurisprudence, & political activism)...

I'll tell you what happens... <FUCKING CRICKETS>... Or worse, 'censorship' accompanied by a lot of consternation, disambiguation, & finger wagging by sychophant saps...


"You're focusing on the wrong people"... Right SMG?... Riiiiight!... It's the goddamned evil Bangladeshis...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:45 | 3638884 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Fuckin Bangladeshis...  I always knew they were out to get us.

I have been mulling on why in both the Christian and Muslim faith, usury was considered a sin.  Was this an intentional design of a new system of control, or a reaction to an old one. 

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:23 | 3638942 john39
john39's picture

God is no dummy...  usury= enslavement by satan and his soulless minions.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:35 | 3638969 francis_sawyer
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I simply take the posture that it is impossible for 'good' to exist without 'evil' [or, vice versa]... Yin/Yang yada yada...

One cannot destroy EITHER... Or, more succinctly, when one DOES destroy BOTH, then they have finally evolved...

So all I ever really do is to look at the 'BALANCE' at any given moment of time... Things will never, really, become balanced because if you consider the forces to be a pendulum swinging back & forth, then that implies motion... Therefore, 'balance' is fleeting...

These concepts should not be difficult to understand [which is why & get a kick out of my many critics who get all lathered up when I make the attempt to simply 'identify' what the imbalances are at any given moment]...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:09 | 3639016 john39
john39's picture

up to the present, it would certianly seem the case that neither good nor evil could ever fully vanquish the other...  but, if you are watching the big picture, and i know that you are, you can see that the 'new world order' is, in essence, the final push for one side to overcomethe other and eliminate the 'duality' that has been in place for all of recorded history.  my guess is that, in this final push, the forces of darkness extend themselves just 'that much' too far, permitting the golden age spoken of by the mayans and so many other mystics (of many faiths and races) to finally come about... 

in any event, we shall see soon enough.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:42 | 3639092 francis_sawyer
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you can see that the 'new world order' is, in essence, the final push for one side to overcomethe other and eliminate the 'duality' that has been in place for all of recorded history.


Absolutely!... & that is why the NWO will ultimately fail...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 14:17 | 3639401 Homernomics
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I'm not worried, this boy has it all under control.  Nothing bad will happen to us.


Just f'n frightening.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 14:17 | 3639404 Homernomics
Homernomics's picture

I'm not worried, this boy has it all under control.  Nothing bad will happen to us...


...just f'n frightening.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:28 | 3638948 francis_sawyer
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I don't like to get into the topic of "faith" or "religion" because the correlations always get confounded...


The only thing I can say [which is painting with a very broad brush]... Is that ALL 'religions', IMO, have their own version of subjugation...

- Usury

- Guilt

- Misogyny

I can't really even say 'Buddhism' or the other more 'pacifist', per se, religions escape this idea of 'control' [in practice]... Breed a legion of 'pacifists' & whgat do you end up with?... A flock of sheep...

Any 'religion' must at least pretend to have a 'higher cause' in mind... The difference [in the above examples] Mostly comes down to:

What are your essential 'flaws' that you're using RELIGION as a shield to hide behind?


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:12 | 3639025 john39
john39's picture

the problem with organized religions is that they are subject to infiltration and corruption...  take Christianity for example... most have no idea what the early teachings of Christianity were... very little in common with what is taught today...      Even later teachings, such as the prohibition of usury, are now noticeably absent.   Michael Hoffman recently wrote an extensive piece on usury and Christianty:

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:45 | 3639096 francis_sawyer
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Understanding modern day 'Christianity' is like trying to understand jazz & blues music through the eyes & wisdom of Justin Beiber...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:34 | 3638951 illyia
illyia's picture

Michael Ruppert covered this whole ball of goo in the late 1990s and early 2000s. His work is maintained, in archive, on his relatively ancient site "From the Wilderness". Although it now seems quaint, there is much good information and history, most of which has never seen the light of the MSM.

He covered PROMIS software (the predecessor to all these monitoring software types) as well as MK Ultra and several other programs. He has an interesting story, but the isolation and separation from credibility drove him somewhat crazy - emotionally, at least.

I mention him because, like Greenwald and Assange, he took the risk of telling the truth and was willing to pay the price.

Like the Tylers, the truth was more important, freedom more valuable, than his social standing.

Ruppert's latest site:

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:24 | 3639045 Pants McPants
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I was a big MCR fan a few years ago; he definitely opened my eyes to a lot of things, most notably 9/11, the war on drugs, and PROMIS software.

Too bad the guy went off the deep end, though.  While I could care less about his personal transgressions he lost all credibility with me when he jumped on the Obama bandwagon in 2008.  I haven't visited his site since.

That said, I wish him well.  He always struck me as someone who was too smart to succumb to the left/right paradigm., but alas...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 15:07 | 3639500 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

I don't think he's succumbed to that.. and I don't think he's crazy now; He's just made (a sort of) peace with the things he can't control, and probably just wants to find some happiness and less frustration in the time he has left on this planet. I don't know anyone who worked harder and spent more time, trying to expose so much within the legal framework of the system, and outside, and he felt their wrath.. It's amazing he wasn't suicided or Wellstoned, and that, I'm sure he realizes.. So he did what he could, and I have no judgement against him for pulling out of this real world chaos, nightmare. He will also be in my top ten heroes, alongside of JFK, Bradley Manning, Marine Maj Gen Smedley Butler, etc.

For anyone unfamiliar with Ruppert, his book, "Crossing the Rubicon", and the doc featuring him, "Collapse" (based on his book by the same name) are worthwhile.. If you want to learn more.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:33 | 3639199 Wilcat Dafoe
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Hagmann is a Mossad asset.

I don't mean probably.


I mean he is.   And a rather shitty one.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:51 | 3638881 spine001
spine001's picture

Listening on off cell phones. You forget that it is technically feasible to listen in conversations over cell phones that are even turned off. Only privacy you could have is by taking the battery off. Something you can not do with iphones. If it is feasible explain to me why wouldn't they be doing it on selected targets? Remember that the revolution comes from the low cost of a terabyte of storage, now around 10 usd. Voice recording takes only 8Kbps per second. This means around 11,000 days of conversations on one terabyte disk only. From a position of totalitarianism you could even say that it would be criminal negligence to not do it if it could potentially save one person's life. The, real problems arise to light, only when you start extrapolating the costs of that life in terms of freedom and liberty for the rest of the people and the inevitable abuses of power that allowing that power to exist will have both on the people wielding that power as in the people being "protected". The funny thing is that all this is known to be the second and third order objectives of terrorist activities, what they truly want is to drive governments to these activities, because they know it ends up destroying them... The US is letting terrorists win, I amvery dissapointed at the level of strategic intelligence of our leaders, both on the ecvonomic and political sides. They shouls consult wit a Bobby Fisher type thinker to u derstand why you don't just act to prevent the consequences of the first move of your opponent, since that is exactly what he/she wants you to do, and this incredibly stupid reaction in a chess vame is what we are doing in real life, foolish. I do hope thst intellihent analyst reads this looking for a threat an is able to interpret my words and trigger some smart actions before it is too late, we are letting them win where it matters most, destroying the MORAL of our people and their trust and loyalty to our government. Why, may I ask?

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:30 | 3638961 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

like your style 001. "why" you ask? because winning has nothing to do with "this." let alone "morals" or "morale." this is all about POWER...real and perceived. How do you prevent the first move you ask? By bringing in the LAWMAN. You're going to need one heck of lawman though...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 17:11 | 3639918 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

If a person has close friends, they probably do not communicate over cell phones, but actually talk face to face. To hear those conversations requires craftwork, not computers.

Someone explain to me how this Amish guy is allowed to use a computer.  You can post on ZH, yet not own any shiny buttons?

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:12 | 3638595 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Obama warned all us little people yesterday: 

"...If you can't trust not only the executive branch, but don't trust congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure we're abiding by the constitution, due process and the rule of law... then, we're gonna have some problems here..."

Looks like we're going to have some problems here. 

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:53 | 3638624 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Yeah, what's all this crap about trust anyway? Why would I trust any government? Either they're honest or they're not. Fuck trust. 

The executive, judicial and congress have all been caught flagrantly breaking the constitution - why on Earth would ANYONE trust anything they say? 

Liars want you to trust them, honest folks don't need your 'trust.' 

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 02:31 | 3638646 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

There are always lines and always sides.  Those on your side you give them a break, do them a favor.  The others?  They get punished.  Trust is for friends.

The choice is actually not black/white.  The very act of choosing is a Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle Problem.  The very act changes you.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:29 | 3638805 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture guys are talking about the Constitution?


You can't do that....especially in Texas.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 13:11 | 3639257 viahj
viahj's picture

the problem with this is not that the mic was turned off from deviating from an approved script (as the rules were known), but that the approved script could not contain elements of the Constitution.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 03:54 | 3638678 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

good point james cole.  speaking of trusting institutions, i saw a very interesting article about a german man who said his wife, who was working at the sixth biggest private bank in germany, was involved in a money laundering and tax evasion enabling scheme involving her bank and swiss accounts. he was somehow found to be "paranoid" and forcibly committed to an insane asylum for years (still there i believe).  

turns out the bank later investigated his claims, found considerable merit in them, fired his wife and others, but never mentioned it to authorities regarding the incarcerated man.  all this is now coming to light and may bring down the government of bavaria:

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:37 | 3639077 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture


I think he was released but spend about 5 years.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:38 | 3638771 phoolish
phoolish's picture

Who is the "we" that are going to have "problems here?"

I don't trust any of those as it is.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:38 | 3638615 Lore
Lore's picture




"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

P.S.  The duration of this post was 2min35sec.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 02:03 | 3638630 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

100 million intrusions into the US per day

I can't help but think the people they are looking for just do not exist online.  The people actually do exist, they just figured out how crafty others can be and did not network their computers.  Oh my god I think I just gave away some kind of secret decoder ring secret.

Fish Gone Bad

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:47 | 3638979 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



These programs are a massive giveaway to companies that did not have access to information beyond purchasing habits, magazine subscriptions, zip code, and other generic stuff like one's demographic profile.


But, starting on 9/12/2001, a US population, by and large united by the propaganda of the Terrorists, proudly said "look at me, rule me out, I'm one of the good guys and have nothing to hide" and willingly opened themselves up to electronic surveillance.  

The information is used to take the pulse of the Population.  The TEA Party was duly absorbed into a Republican brand quickly for a reason.  Occupy was marginalized and met with violence, for the same reason. ANY kind of Truther is met with ridicule, too, all for one reason.


Control.  The owner's strive to maintain it, and in so doing, will unravel millenniums of dominance.  

This is a new age.




Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:23 | 3638730 spentCartridge
spentCartridge's picture

 ... not authorized to "intentionally target" a person within the US.

The key thing here, of course, is the distinction/definition of the word 'person' and which US, there are at least two entities claiming to be 'US', the quoted statement is referring to. 

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:54 | 3638750 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

That's how police checkpoints slowly became accepted after initial outrage in the 1980's, by "randomly" stopping every 5th car or whatever.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:23 | 3638867 spinone
spinone's picture

Who cares?  Its unenforceable.  Are you going to sue the NSA for violating the law?

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:16 | 3639161 Wilcat Dafoe
Wilcat Dafoe's picture

You labor under the misconception they give a shit what the "law" says.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:01 | 3638286 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

I certainly agree that Gyorgy Schwartz is one of the pillars upon which the marxist delusions of Hussein Obama so precariously rest.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:01 | 3638288 prains
prains's picture

Work? It's pretty much DNA code now, saturated propaganda has them baffled, the noise is overwhelming

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:10 | 3638314 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

I doubt that half of Hussein's regime can even pronounce DNA. Much less DeoxyriboNucleicAcid.

The average IQ of the Hussein's regime is probably somewhere around 80.  And that's being awfully generous.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:18 | 3638333 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The Bernanke scored perfect on the SAT.  I agree that O is not a rocket scientist and he got into Harvard for reasons that have little to do with his IQ, but he's surrounded by very intelligent people.  Idiots don't get away with what they've gotten away with for all of these decades.  Don't underestimate your enemy.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:29 | 3638371 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Oh, I don't under-estimate them for a second, but I also recognize that there are relatively few of them in the country.  100 or less hardcore neo-marxist neo-Bolshevik types,  in my estimation.  Gyorgy Schwartz, Cass Sunstein, Peter Orszag, Bill Ayers, etc.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:05 | 3638756 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***hardcore neo-marxist neo-Bolshevik types***


Why do you insist on calling FASCISTS as Marxists? Is it because for years all during the cold war Americans were told that Marxists/Communists were the bad guys? They were bad guys for sure but that's not what we are facing now. We are looking at the wealthiest people in the country and their corporations in collusion with the government creating a new world order that will destroy Constitutional democracy. It is FASCISM pure and simple. Try to get that straight in you mind.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:23 | 3638762 Everybodys All ...
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It might be because has surrounded himself with hardcore marxists. Sunstein, Van Jones, and Jarrett. It might be because his daddy was an avoid Marxist in Kenya. It might be because he got his launch for the state of Illinois Congressional seat from the home of another self described Marxist Bill Ayers. Just connect the dots and believe me I could go on... Fascism and the Marxist will walk hand in hand for as long as the ends justify the means.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:40 | 3638812 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Remember that Hitler and Stalin had a pact as long as it served their mutual purpose. Both fascism and communism are secular religions that embrace the collective over the individual. Both subscribed to the notion that the end justified the means.


The apparatus of both states were frighteningly similar.  All actions were directed by psychopaths that pretended to be true believers.   Their edicts were carried out by legions of cynical drones each vying for position over his peers.  As the purges and coups played out, the populace coward in their hovels, waiting for the inevitable knock on the door.


I think it mattered little to the poor bastard that found himself on his knees facing the pit whether the bullet going through his brain is a nine millimeter parabellum or a thirty caliber Tokarev.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:16 | 3638861 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***The apparatus of both states were frighteningly similar.***

True they were both totalitarian systems. But the difference was that Marxism/Communism outlawed private property. All wealth was confiscated. The rich oligarchs were left penniless. However under Fascism the wealthy and their corporations were merged with the state. Their wealth was protected and enhanced. Naturally the rich oligarchs in this country are behind the movement toward a system that will enhance their wealth and power - FASCISM! To understand what is going on in this country it is necessary to grasp the distinction.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:51 | 3638895 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Somewhat true on the distinctions between communism & fascism.

While alive, the cultural intelligentsia of the communist party enjoyed a lifestyle completely unobtainable to "the masses". Only at their death did their "ownership" of their vacation dacha's and wealth revert to the state.

Its a distinction without much of a difference if the state can then turn and grant wealth & property, essentially a patronage system. 

What we are witnessing is a morphing of the two with the state still large & in charge. There is no other way to explain a "public servant" becoming a millionaire while spending his life in the senate.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:39 | 3638772 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The Bolshevicks were backed by the Bankers' dollars and the MIC's guns- neo-Bolshevik is quite accurate since they are peddling the same communal bullshit to sheep deserving of a slaughter in order to facilitate that very slaughter.  Rinse, Repeat.  

Save your romantic fantasies of revolution for the young dumb and impressionable.

Wealth isn't any dividing line, collusion with the State is.  If you don't see that, then you really are useful idiot.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:45 | 3638821 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

The very word "Change" in the empty slogan "Hope and Change" comes from Karl Marx.   Look up Karl Marx's quote on the point of consolidating political power being to "change history".

Know Thy Enemy

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:07 | 3638447 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

The Bernanke got a perfect score on the SAT, big fucking whoop.  The SAT is a measure of how well people take tests, that's all.  So The Bernanke is a good test taker.  Doesn't translate well to running the economy of a fucking nation, does it?  For reference, see QEInfinity.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:10 | 3638453 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I disagree.  No good test taker gets a perfect score without raw intelligence.  What I see is that QE is intended to crash the economy and enrich the bankers.  And the smarts are used to sell it to the masses as a well meaning (soon to established) mistake.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:35 | 3638560 macholatte
macholatte's picture


What I see is that QE is intended to crash the economy and enrich the bankers. 

Review the entire Soros-Clinton-Obama Machine objective. See Cloward Pivon Strategy. 

The intent is to collapse the system and it is working. Obamacare will have a major detrimental affect. The spying is just a vehicle to enable to kind of tyranical control the left needs. Gun confiscation is their weakness.  Only thing missing is a vision for what happens after the collapse, which is now inevitable. I'm afraid it will be one of those moments when the perpetrators look at each other and say, "Now what?"


and yes, the entire Progressive team is very intelligent however misguided.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:15 | 3638722 malikai
malikai's picture

When they're all paid for by the same people, they're all on the same team.

There is no progressive. There is no conservative.

Also, LTER. You're pretty fucking smart sometimes. Yaknow.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:30 | 3638864 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Test scores are overrated... They don't show how many "smart" people there are... Instead ~ they prove how just many fucking IDIOTS there are...


Anyone ~ with half their wits about them can ace ANY test cold... I got invited to do a math SAT when I was in 8th grade before I'd even taken trig or analytic geometry & scored in the high 600's... I never even cracked a book in high school [except for reading the Great Gatsby]... It was the biggest waste of time in my life...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:45 | 3639099 Rustysilver
Rustysilver's picture


I agree with you about high school being a big waste of time. I was working full time on the second shift (about 7 months) in a factory in my senior years.

So, please explain why we have less than 50% gradulation rate in D.C., Detroit, and many other cities.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:08 | 3639137 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Easy... It doesn't PAY [in aggregate] to have a diploma in any of those places where the motto is "Get Rich or Die Trying"...


Let's put it another way... The idea [once offered by MsCreant], that 'homeschooling' was one of the major factors for the supposed 'higher intelligence' in cheesepopes... That's a load of horseshit [because it implies one thing & one thing only]... That WEALTH & CAREER are the defining characteristics of INTELLIGENCE...


Nepotism & Indoctrination have a hell of a lot more to do with [who becomes what] than anything else: Cheesepopes dominate in these areas:

Banking, MSM, Jurisprudence, political activism

- All we ever do on ZH is criticize the flawed 'wisdom' of eCONomists & bankers... They fucking make the shit up as they go along & most of it is a joke... When it finally bends against them, they lie & change the rules... How fucking smart do you have to be to have a money printing machine where you give all the money to your friends?

- MSM ~ How fucking smart do you have to be to read a script on a teleprompter of a story that came in from AP or Reuters [who are owned by Rothschild]

- Jurisprudence ~ Ha!... That's the biggest laugh of all... All "laws" are synthetic & they're all subject to interpretation [& mostly corruption]... All 'law' is is a money making machine, same as banking... It's the JUST US system [which resides in the 'Executive' branch of government], go figure...

- Political activism - this is really just an offshoot of banking, jurisprudence, & media propaganda all rolled into one [you know ~ for people who don't like sports]...

All of the above are impossibly represented by cheesepopes... & even the ones who don't follow that path usually are still influenced by the gravity of their tribe to 'excel' in whatever area [no matter how mindnumbingly inconsequential ~ as long as it draws a good salary]... For that you need INDOCTRINATION... Which is why the 'educational system' is utilized...

It's like the end of THE WIZARD OF OZ... All the scarecrow needed [in the wizards opinion] was a diploma...

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:45 | 3638737 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

This is bipartisan, man. Anyone who can't see that is butt dumb.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:27 | 3639182 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

When you look in the mirror do you see that fish hook?  You are falling for their trick.  This is not a conservative, liberal thing?  It is not a Oblama GW, thing????

Stop drinking the coolaide

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:59 | 3638629 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I agree with you that most of those guys are very smart (including Obama who is not only obviously highly intelligent but also the best presidential liar since Ronald Reagan) but disagree with you about tests.

People with mediocre intelligence can do well on those sorts of tests, memory is more important for that than critical thinking. Not quite to level of being able to score perfect, but I've come across lots of people who've done well on similar tests and been unable to hack it later on when the smart are separated from the average.  

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:56 | 3638835 Oleander
Oleander's picture

My brother and I both took the LSAT in the early 90's and scored around 93%. 

We realized all those in law school could not have all scored so well.

We skipped law school, and additional debt, by realizing a lot of stupid people become lawyers.  

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:25 | 3638477 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

SAT and IQ scores are very highly correlated, to the point that they are more or less proxies for one another.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:32 | 3638484 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Had I scored perfect on the SAT, I would have gone to work for the Fed.  Endless money and chicks for free.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:11 | 3638534 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

you're right rand, Barry is no genius, but his handlers are radical leftists. They only get away with what they do because the liberal MSM has been covering for Obama since the primaries in 2008.  The "liberals" are being led by the radicals right now which in the end is going to ruin their cause. They're dangerous but not hard to figure out.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:22 | 3638542 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And case in point on the propaganda.  "Liberal media."  You mean the media that defines the debate by whether we are bombing enough children for the safety of our children, or the one that says Ron Paul is crazy (Fox too -- look it up).

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:24 | 3638548 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You deny the obvious which is why there's no getting through to you.  The MSM is liberal.  The liberals control the schools.  The liberals control hollywood.  The liberals control the court system.  The liberals control the Institutions.  This whole failed system is one big fucking liberal experiment.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:28 | 3638551 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

And the winner is... THE FUCKING CORPORATIONS.

Don't be an idiot, the banks and corps are winning.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:33 | 3638557 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Oh did I forget to mention they run the Banks.  There's nothing conservative about fractional reserve banking.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:06 | 3638589 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Holy-b-fuckin' jeesus, man,  your definition of "liberal" is as 'solid' government's definition of a "terrorist".  Try thinking instead of givin' out handjobs to ditto heads for a change.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:14 | 3638597 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Harbanger isn't giving out handjobs.  It's all anal.  Think about the name.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:21 | 3638600 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

When faced with truth you always revert back to a whiny bimbo.  Am I getting on your nerves? Good.  Hows your blood pressure?

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:26 | 3638603 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Bimbo is as bimbo does.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 01:31 | 3638607 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Real smart, genius.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:38 | 3638563 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

It doesn't matter who is winning, freedom and liberty are losing.

How much you support the right or the left  is inversely proportional to how much you support freedom and liberty.

We live in a world of dueling control freaks and it's past time for all of them to go to hell.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:52 | 3638746 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

+10 for "world of dueling control freaks"!

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 04:04 | 3638680 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the new york times, bastion of "liberal press" in the minds of most movement conservatives, was highly instrumental in promoting the war in iraq and sat on the story about warrantless wiretapping until bush was reelected.  the msm suck up to power, wielded by whomever. as you note, the banks and the corporations are winning (so far).  most of the "liberal/conservative" "republicans/democrats" is to keep the muppets distracted.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:28 | 3638553 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Point propaganda.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:24 | 3638547 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

It's the corporate media -- you're distracted by the drama, focus of the reason.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:48 | 3638739 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

He's distracted by the phony occultist dialectic of the corporate/bankster-imposed left/right paradigm. Like a cheerleader with pom poms.

It's amazing how people smart enough to understand Cloward Piven can't understand divide and conquer.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:29 | 3638555 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

They're radical left-handed collectivists.

One-half of America's problem.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:01 | 3638839 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

The Iranian-born communist Valerie Jarrett is the one who puts the words on the teleprompter.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:15 | 3638929 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

"the liberals are being led by the radicals..."


Same as the repubicans.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 02:15 | 3638636 JohnG
JohnG's picture



As George Carlin famously spake:

"If you take the average IQ (50th percentile), realize that half are stupider than that.

--emphasis mine--

We might be OK.

I still don't trust that.


---I should think that Cheeky was ahead of the curve on this one.  I still miss him though...



Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:39 | 3639085 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Agree re: Carlin, and I miss him too.

But he used the wrong word in his quote; I think Carlin should have said "median" instead of "average"

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:09 | 3638305 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Nailed it.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:12 | 3638310 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Break the 9/11 Myth and it all tumbles down.

Then we can go back to wondering why are stocks aren't performing.

For fuck's sake, people, the evidence of the 9/11 fraud is overwhelming at this point.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:15 | 3638328 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It took me the better part of a decade and extensive reading and constant "get out of the matrix!" arguments with my wife to finally see it.   I was stuck on the idea that maybe they let it happen but didn't actually cause it because that would be unthinkable.  Unfortunately, 95% of people aren't even thinking about it, and when they see a country video of some guys jumping out of planes to go get Saddam a tear comes to their eye.  Never going to happen.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:22 | 3638348 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Took me a few years till after I saw the BS/WMD Iraq War and the torture scandal.  That opened me up to look further.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:33 | 3638378 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

In hindsight, I'm embarassed how long it took me to figure it out.  But then again it makes me give a pass to everyone who still believes the propaganda.  I'm sad to conclude that most people will never see it.  Not in one year or in fifty years.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:31 | 3638442 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Had I not read Crossing the Rubicon, I might not have figured it till Loose Change. As to the current breaches in privacy and its effects: knowing that Obama's goons had damaging goods on everyone from John Roberts

(Rumor has it that Roberts has a son who was adopted........ The records indicate that the boy was adopted in South America...However......... The slime in the WH found out he was actually born in Ireland and Ireland has strict laws forbidding adoption of any child...............If Roberts knowingly broke International Law, he would be finished as Supreme Court Justice)

to David Petraeus (affairs) not to mention the 100's of people refusing to testify is easy to see how it all tumbled into a giant shitstorm after the Patriot act and NDAA became abused daily against anyone who did not go along with the blackmailer in chief's puppet masters.

The slippery slope of breached privacy coupled with the target of certain citizens has undermined almost every federal organization. 


Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:38 | 3638494 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

It really needs to split up, IMO.  The blue hives would be much better off pursuing their rainbow utopias without this pesky Constitution standing in the way of their dreams.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:44 | 3638501 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Dick Cheney famously said that the next President would like the Executive Presidency that Cheney and his cohorts created for whomever it was.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:39 | 3638735 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Sep 12, 2001, I thought there was something fishy about the whole thing.  Couldn't put my finger on it.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:54 | 3638747 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

September 11, 2001 AM when the networks had Jerome Hauer(Kroll) on telling us OBL was the bad guy who done it, no investigations needed. He also already knew why the buildings collapsed...Right.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:42 | 3638498 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

something had me wondering how (1) the buildings fell so perfectly (2) they breached the pentagon after fair warning and (3) NORAD fell asleep 

Peak oil helped  

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:19 | 3638539 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

To complete the political picture -- why? -- check these interviews:

and... (all 6 parts at this link)

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:43 | 3638816 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I knew as I watched the buildings come down that planes never caused it.

But then I had studied the construction techniques of the WTC complex long

before 9/11

It was an obvious demo job after the smoke and dust cleared ,the debis field confirmed

The actual  spec ops assets were probably terminated that same day.

Its amazing to me that others cannot see it.

The power of self delusion is truly astonishing.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:49 | 3638740 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Ignatius is right.

If you're too dumb by now to see that 911 was an inside job, give up already, and let the smart people talk so that everyone can learn.

Good site, too, Iggy.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:29 | 3638369 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Well said.... create diversions for the unemployed and unruly Plebs.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:10 | 3638454 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"You see, the idea is to get guys like you to focus on the figurehead rather than the guys calling the shots."

At least Bastiat referenced, in a roundabout way, the sycophants.

As far as "the guys calling the shots" go, you neglected the support structure altogether.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 09:02 | 3638840 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Exactly! It is only worse because the technology is improving. If Clinton's or Reagan's NSA had this capability, they would've used it too. It will get more intrusive with every technological advancement and It won't matter if a donkey or an elephant resides in the White House. What shocks me the most is that people are so shocked! I thought this was common knowledge for a decade. Doesn't make it right, but it is here to stay.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:27 | 3639181 Wilcat Dafoe
Wilcat Dafoe's picture

letthemeatrand appears to me to be an unremitting cunt, the sort of fathead who can present a well-written argument for why someone is wrong which nevertheless demonstrates no significant understanding of the position he is attacking, and whose hipper-than-thou, bloviating screeds are as tiring as watching Chris Matthews or Bill Maher pretend not to be aging, shameless shills for a corrupt political organization...

but in this, he is entirely correct.

Obama was picked early on by a cabal of Chicago Dems based on his race, pedigree, speaking ability and psychological narcissism.

If you recall, his chief of staff and closest advisor were ultra-Zionists.  That ought to tell you something about who installed him, claims that he's a secret muslim or whatever are absolute nonsense - a side effect of the zionist effort to demonize muslims as much as possible, and partly a rift between Obama's 'moderate' Zionist Jew backers, and the batshit crazy Jewish Supremacists in the GOP - men like Bill Kristol and Dick Perle...  men who, if the citizens of this country had any balls and capacity to think a thought not pre-packaged for them by the popular culture, would have been tarred and feathered - old school - years ago.


Sorry, thought police - I'm still waiting for the majority of Jews who are in fact not neocons to call out and rein in their right wing neocon brethren.  I don't see that happening.  I think its important to talk about, even if it means losing my right to talk about it.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 00:56 | 3638572 Reptil
Reptil's picture


both were extensions of the same powermongers
IG Farben, Krupps, Siemens, BBH, UBC, IBM etc. etc.

after the war this continued and the USA security machine was set up, with the current predicament as the result.
this has nothing to do with democrat or republican. it saddens me that as a ZH reader you're still falling for the dog and pony show.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 04:11 | 3638681 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

wolf and unicorn show?

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:22 | 3638728 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

Legit my ass ... Payed sock puppets inthronized by same butchers who killed America. DuPont invented SA, having a quater million of killers arsonists and batters in the twenties, backed by democrat gangsters, big money and the Espionage Act.

Shitty Nazi BIS still in charge.

My most beloved Nazi, ( in term of efficiency ), is fuckin' Allen Dulles. His heritage runs the world. DHS needs intelligence on the sheeple to use all of expensive hollow point ammo ..... Black peace of shit came out of Robert Ruben's ass ... he is just following his orders.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:51 | 3638744 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

When we talk of Nazis, always say Bush. The Dulles brothers went to work for whom when they left Princeton? Hmm....

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:39 | 3638763 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Digging deeper down the rabbit hole ... George Herbett Walker Bush was named after his grandfather, George Herbert Walker, the Democrat power broker and Jesuit who became chairman of W.A.Harriman & Co (later Brown Brothers Harriman) and financed Averell Harriman's takeover of the Hamburg-Amerika Line. Walker's daughter married Prescott Bush. Prescott Bush was a Yale 'Skull & Bones' man (a Jesuit secret society).

Not only did the Dulles brothers work for Brown Brothers Harriman, and one of them later become CIA director, but John Foster Dulles' son is a Jesuit cardinal and a Knight of Malta!

Again, the Khazarians (Jesuits and/or AshkeNAZIs) are in the background from the beginning pulling the strings ... indeed, from the very formation of the US itself (but that's another long story).

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 07:58 | 3638786 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

We have the time ...if you do Dawg...

no better way to "spend" reprise of the original dirty lowdown one more time... fore deja vu begins all over agin... on a border point not too far north of Amman... "Representative" Eric Cantor apparently doesn't believe that enuff marine expeditionary blood was sacrificied for the cause of "greater israel" way back yu no when... mo blood be needed for the greater good of the moneypowers' glory!

don't pause... put yur paws to the gapin maws what be in fronts of you! Young Peeples of Merika deserves to know what they be gonna fightin n dying for... fore long! \Country Joe McDonald live at Woodstock

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:58 | 3638829 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"We have the time ...if you do"

Sorry, ol' sock, but it would be casting pearls before well as shaking them to their very core! **

On the more pressing issue: I find it highly amusing that Assad pulled off the Al Qusayr rout on the very same day that the US landed 1,000 troops and armour of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Force in southern Jordan...a day late and a dollar short....

Also amusing that Austria is pulling [has pulled?] its troops from "the 40-year peacekeeping jaunt" on the Golan Heights and the UN has been unable to find a replacement yet. Croatia also pulled out in March and the Philippines is also wanting out. Russia offered to fill the gaping hole, but was rejected (probably because they would actually stop Israeli incursions into Syria...LOL).

Not so amusing, though, for those innocent civillians on both sides of the Syria-Israel-Jordan borders who will be the victims of the coming Khazarian power play to merge yet another secular muzzie state...or two...into the expanding Globalist ME Caliphate.

How's tricks in Anatolia?


** perhaps I should enroll at Georgetown and submit it as a doctoral thesis, eh?! Dr. Dog and Deputy Dawg 2016!

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:19 | 3638926 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

The Free Swine Corp** of Inner Anatolia(Yunus Emre Division) DEMAND you to deliver the bacon...

inquiring porcine peeples want to know.... which ever way the ill winds blow!

Eschew Georgetown... and Jonestown(s) too....keep sending out msg... one's sure to get thru!

**here we refer to bein 'shakin to the core" ...

as merely dry... not stirred. Shakin yur bacon... on the other hand... is when the dock party proceeds... after the iman and other obligatory invited guests of the religious establishment have retired for the night.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 19:13 | 3640335 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Skull and Bones is a luciferian/occultist society, and I have seen it successfully linked to Russell Trust and the German Thule Society. I have never, however, seen it linked to Jesuits. Feel free to explain w/links.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 00:15 | 3640848 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Again, you need to dig deeper. Who and what does the Russell Trust represent? Who do the skull and the bones belong to? What is their significance? Who is represented in the initiation ritual, and why? Why do you believe that the Jesuits are not luciferians/occultists?

Anthony Sutton provides a start, but barely scratches the surface of the above questions. Rely on original and wide-ranging research, not wiki-CIA-pedia links....

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 12:20 | 3642438 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I read quite a bit about that frat, so put your money where your mouth is, and throw up some links that provide evidence that Jesuits controlled Russell Trust or control or even influence Skull and Bones. Dig deeper? Where?

Put up or shut up.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 20:29 | 3644206 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Since you couldn't even answer a few simple questions from all of your reading, I certainly won't waste my time any further here.

You don't know who is behind it, but you believe it isn't the Jesuits. LOL.

Belief isn't knowledge.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 01:00 | 3649219 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Might as well just type "crickets" if you can't back up what you say with evidence, but that's what I expected, sadly.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 08:55 | 3638834 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

It was embarrassing to watch him unable to say anyhting w/o a script, but for once I agree with Rush, that he has to have a script or he will go off-script and say something like, "Bolsheviks Unite!" and give it away.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:22 | 3639039 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Bush and Obama and all their minions belong in prison. Any bureaucrat that supports or took part in this crime needs to be sent to North Korea where they can enjoy the security of a police state.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:16 | 3638329 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Propaganda is very subtle.

For example #4, Hitler in the foreground of Bismark (the ear), Bismark seeming to recede. Hitlers eyes should have been, softer (for our time) not so stern, but that is not what the public (in Germany) wanted at the time.

They wanted it, they got it.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 06:52 | 3638745 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

So says nmewn the 911 truth denier.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:30 | 3638780 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So say's Johnny-One-Note who has had more "truth-theory" blow up in his face than Wiley Coyote.

Tell me again how aluminum & iron oxide dust found in the area of just collapsed buildings equal proof of nano-thermite? Finding rust & paint residue there is equal to finding salt in the sea.

Fucking eureka!!!...the smoking gun!!!

Stick to what you know best professor...that is, trolling me incessantly on ZH.


Well I see you've contacted some retarded brothers-in-arms who can't answer simple questions posed.

So I have some more questions...

1) Were our "jihadist friends" on board those flights?...yes or no.

2) If yes, why...if no, prove they weren't.

3) Were there air to ground communications stating what was happening on those planes in real time before they slammed into the buildings?...yes or no.

4) If yes, another "truth-theory" of voice recognition software blown to smithereens, if no, thats all you need to prove government murdering its own people. By the way, real people heard it and recorded it.

The balls in your court spud.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:36 | 3638966 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"Tell me again how aluminum & iron oxide dust found in the area of just collapsed buildings equal proof of nano-thermite. Finding rust & paint residue there is equal to finding salt in the sea."

lol.  What a monumentally ignorant thing to say.  It takes 50,000 power just to be able to see the plate-like structures containing aluminum.  The faceted grains are about 100 nm across (that's nano scale to you, hubcap).  These nano structures are highly uniform.

The energetic red chips -- the unreacted thermite -- were found to react even more rapidly than known nano-thermite (produced by the likes of Lawrence Livermore Laboratories). 

The notion that a bunch of raw material from a building randomly mixed together in just the right proportions and (?) engineered itself into these highly uniform nano-structures of unreacted thermite is truly stupid.


Sun, 06/09/2013 - 10:57 | 3638997 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The truthers did not find "nano-thermite" they found iron & aluminum oxide...operative words are THEY ARE CLAIMING to have found evidence of nano-thermite...not me.

They also make claims it was, alternately placed during construction or after construction. Which also implies the ignition source and primary charge would have to have been evidence of that either.

I'm developing a "theory" of my own about so-called truthers hijacking every thread...whether its Sandy Hook or Boston.

They're basically nuts. 

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:12 | 3639007 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"The truthers did not find 'nano-thermite' they found iron & aluminum oxide..."

You are a liar, plain and simple.

The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:32 | 3639193 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You attached a dead link, its not loading here.

But whatevah's, I will assume your truther pdf outlines from the beginning how and where the samples were taken, what they were looking for in bothering to take them, how long after the event they took them, account for the integrity of methods used in aquiring them and...of course, the chain of custody of said samples showing up in the lab.

I'm gonna go out on a limb (without the benefit of reading your pdf) and say, no, they didn't. Truthers are more known for hyperbole & jumping to conclusions more than proper investigation.

Perhaps you could copy/paste its entirety on the last comment of this thread (so as to not clutter the comment section up here) and I'll look it over.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 14:56 | 3639474 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture






It opened for me.  "


We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in significant

numbers in dust associated with the World Trade Center

destruction. We have applied SEM/XEDS and other methods

to characterize the small-scale structure and chemical signature

of these chips, especially of their red component. The

red material is most interesting and has the following characteristics:

1. It is composed of aluminum, iron, oxygen, silicon and

carbon. Lesser amounts of other potentially reactive

elements are sometimes present, such as potassium,

sulfur, lead, barium and copper.

2. The primary elements (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) are typically

all present in particles at the scale of tens to hundreds

of nanometers, and detailed XEDS mapping shows

intimate mixing.

3. On treatment with methyl ethyl ketone solvent, some

segregation of components occurred. Elemental aluminum

became sufficiently concentrated to be clearly

identified in the pre-ignition material.

4. Iron oxide appears in faceted grains roughly 100 nm

across whereas the aluminum appears in thin platelike

structures. The small size of the iron oxide particles

qualifies the material to be characterized as nanothermite

or super-thermite.

5. Analysis shows that iron and oxygen are present in a

ratio consistent with Fe



. The red material in all

four WTC dust samples was similar in this way. Iron

oxide was found in the pre-ignition material whereas

elemental iron was not.

6. From the presence of elemental aluminum and iron

oxide in the red material, we conclude that it contains

the ingredients of thermite.

7. As measured using DSC, the material ignites and reacts

vigorously at a temperature of approximately




C, with a rather narrow exotherm, matching

fairly closely an independent observation on a known

super-thermite sample. The low temperature of ignition

and the presence of iron oxide grains less than

120 nm show that the material is not conventional

thermite (which ignites at temperatures above 900




but very likely a form of super-thermite.

8. After igniting several red/gray chips in a DSC run to




C, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and

spheroids in the residue, indicating that a very hightemperature

reaction had occurred, since the iron-rich

product clearly must have been molten to form these

shapes. In several spheres, elemental iron was verified

since the iron content significantly exceeded the

oxygen content. We conclude that a high-temperature

reduction-oxidation reaction has occurred in the

heated chips, namely, the thermite reaction.

9. The spheroids produced by the DSC tests and by the

flame test have an XEDS signature (Al, Fe, O, Si, C)

which is depleted in carbon and aluminum relative to

the original red material. This chemical signature

strikingly matches the chemical signature of the spheroids

produced by igniting commercial thermite, and

also matches the signatures of many of the microspheres

found in the WTC dust [5].

10. The carbon content of the red material indicates that

an organic substance is present. This would be expected

for super-thermite formulations in order to

produce high gas pressures upon ignition and thus

make them explosive. The nature of the organic material

in these chips merits further exploration. We note

that it is likely also an energetic material, in that the

total energy release sometimes observed in DSC tests

exceeds the theoretical maximum energy of the classic

thermite reaction.

Based on these observations, we conclude that the red

layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC

dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating

nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or

explosive material.



Crimes don't just have PHYSICAL evidence.

The suspect's behavior is often telling

Tell us why, in violation of so many laws, they immediately sezied and shipped off all the steel? Key physical evidence in one of the biggest crimes (no matter what your suspect theory) in American history? Of course they couldn get it all (damn said Dick) and thus, things like the above.






Sun, 06/09/2013 - 17:07 | 3639897 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well it didn't for me Davey but with you I'll accept thats what it said...your trust has been earned with me.

So did it speak of when & who collected it?

I have no personal vendetta against Steven Jones (or Niels Harrit) but the idea that thermite could have been planted on 47 load bearing I-beams (in both buildings, totalling 94) during or before passenger jets slammed into the buildings takes more faith in a theory than I can muster. There has never, in the history of controlled building demolition, been a building taken down with thermite. Then think about removing walls and everything behind to get to the I beams...47 of both buildings, then replacing all that, if beforehand.

Then factor in, the buildings collapse started from the exact floors the planes impacted. If done during the would be "uncomfortable" to say the least walking around with primary ignition sources to ignite the thermite...and thermite...I'll assume on the floor directly below the one closest to the ground, while its on fire...and then expecting to get out.

Finally, no explosions were heard (working in concert with "thermite" one would suppose) in order to drop them without them tipping over...thermite cuts and/or doesn't explode.

I know what thermite is, I've used it.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 19:14 | 3640344 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

TY DJ. Never trust a 911 truth denier about anything. NEVER trust them. Period. Always remember who they are, too. Many of them lurk here, and their purpose is to hide truth.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 21:09 | 3640648 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Right here Clashfan, right here, right now, the Fight Club way.

Lets discuss your "evidence".

  Is   it   right   that   Steven   Jones   organized   the   samples?     Steven   Jones   is   known   as   an   absolute   believer   in   the   911   conspiracy   and   folks   out   there   do   not   step   back   from   accusing   him   of    mixing   the   dust   of    with   explosives   to   finally   bring   the   "proof"   for   the   controlled   demolition.   Dr.   Niels   Harrit:   This   is   an   absolute   insult   to   an   honest   scientist.   Furthermore,   it   is   a   stupid   question,   in   as   much   as   we   are   anti ? conspiracy   theorists.   We   oppose   the   official   conspiracy   theory.   That's   all.  
Sun, 06/09/2013 - 21:57 | 3640881 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well?...are you gonna defend yourself or slink away again?

Rock the casbah baby ;-)

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 12:25 | 3642465 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Not that I see much use in debating you on it but merely reminding others that you are a truth denier, but at least three labs have found nanothermite in the rubble. To fake it, you'd have to have access to nanothermite, and not everyone does.

But the absolute proof is in the speed of collapse, and that's simple math.

Not to mention NORAD, USAF, and FAA telling radically different stories. Not to mention the clear sequence of lies coming from a variety of official sources. Not to mention Cleland's resignation or the whole Commission, basically, saying their report is a work of fiction, etc. We could go on, but we've been down that road a few too many times, nmewn. You are a 911 truth denier, and I am determined to remind people of that whenever I feel like it.

Peace and blessings.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 20:22 | 3644308 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, we've argued over it many times, you seemed consumed by it and for some reason with me not going along with your version of "truth".


Did you even bother to read the interview with Harrit in the link I provided? He's being evasive and admits an agenda driven group (truthers) had a hand in gathering the samples for analysis. Doesn't this scream WTF? 

Whut, ya'll don't trust us? The "evidence" was gathered under the strictest guidelines & ethical standards and kept in a mayonaise jar on Funk & Wagnells back porch!

Steven Jones stepped out of his field of interest (he's not a structural engineer) and made some pretty wild statements which he doesn't have the expertise to make and got canned (one supposes) for it.

The floor joists gave way from the fires, they are what connect the I beam load bearing supports to the bedrock pancaked (for the most part) because of that, the weight of the floors above is borne by the I beams NOT the floor joists below that floor, they can't handle it obviously.

Some say they heard explosions, thermite doesn't explode, it burns. If explosives were used to cut the floor joists they wouldn't have needed the thermite at all. What they heard was tons of top floors slamming into the next floors down...dig up any footage of a skyscraper demolition, its unmistakable.

And finally, again, it started collapsing from exactly where the planes hit.

Now you can call me a denier and I'll call you a truther hysteric grasping at straws. The "truth" for me is, I don't care if its opened up to investigation again by real professionals in their fields...architects, engineers, explosive & demolition experts.

I'll end in reciprocation, peace & blessings...until you troll me again ;-)

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 00:55 | 3649214 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Calling out 911 truth deniers is the opposite of trolling: It's a public service. Blessings back atcha.

Trusses giving way would not account for freefall collapse anyway, but the trusses were tested at 2K F, under load, for hours, before they were put in.

Each floor on the way down would have offered some type of resistance.

How fast did each building fall? How high was each building? Do the math if you can. It's simple math.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 11:23 | 3639044 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The truthers did not find "nano-thermite" they found iron & aluminum oxide

fighting with a strawman is pretty nutty

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:34 | 3639200 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The old adage of arguing with fools comes to mind ;-)

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 14:40 | 3639451 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the most amazing quality of nano-thermite (and extreme muslim sects) is how they give the BBC the ability to see into the future, enable loser Cessna pilots to do things with big jets no pilot can do, and, most amazingly, convince authorities to hide all video evidence of the Pentagon strike so they can shut all the (growing number of) weirdos up 

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:25 | 3638359 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Germans tend to be pretty smart and industrious people. Some German chicks are hot, too.

Hussein's worshipers, on the other hand, would quickly starve to death without food stamps and government jobs.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:40 | 3638382 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You are falling for the propaganda again.  Many of Obama's supporters are quite wealthy.  Some of them are the wealthiest people in the entire world.  They have the foodstamp people voting for him because that's a huge voting block and it allows them to further consolidate power.  And they don't care if the Red Team wins the next election because they control both Teams.  And they use the Marxist versus God and Country divide to shit the pendulum back and forth while no one sees who they are.  Don't underestimate your enemy.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:45 | 3638404 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Not the masses.  The supporters you're referring to are quite small in numbers.  A few hundred, max.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:51 | 3638416 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

A few thousand people control most of the wealth of the world.  They are your enemy who put Reagan, then Clinton, then Bush, then Bush II, then Obama into office.  You don't see it, but perhaps one day you will.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:56 | 3638426 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Well, I wouldn't go that far.  Difference of opinion, I suppose.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 22:58 | 3638433 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Wait 'till Red Team wins the next one and nothing changes.  Then maybe you'll start to see it.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:02 | 3638440 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Well, I just don't buy the argument that Ted Cruz, for example, is equivalent to Hussein Obama.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:16 | 3638457 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

When Ted Cruz is on the Red Team ticket for President (and I mean the real deal, not a few primaries that he'll lose), I'll vote for him despite my disagreement with many of his views and I will happily admit I'm wrong.  I voted for Ron Paul despite my liberal tendencies.  Cruz will never be on the ticket for the big show unless they turn him first, like Rand Paul.

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