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Ron Paul On Government Spying: "Should We Be Shocked?"
From Ron Paul
Government Spying: Should We Be Shocked?
Last week we saw dramatic new evidence of illegal government surveillance of our telephone calls, and of the National Security Agency’s deep penetration into American companies such as Facebook and Microsoft to spy on us. The media seemed shocked.
Many of us are not so surprised.
Some of us were arguing back in 2001 with the introduction of the so-called PATRIOT Act that it would pave the way for massive US government surveillance—not targeting terrorists but rather aimed against American citizens. We were told we must accept this temporary measure to provide government the tools to catch those responsible for 9/11. That was nearly twelve years and at least four wars ago.
We should know by now that when it comes to government power-grabs, we never go back to the status quo even when the “crisis” has passed. That part of our freedom and civil liberties once lost is never regained. How many times did the PATRIOT Act need renewed? How many times did FISA authority need expanded? Why did we have to pass a law to grant immunity to companies who hand over our personal information to the government?
It was all a build-up of the government’s capacity to monitor us.
The reaction of some in Congress and the Administration to last week’s leak was predictable. Knee-jerk defenders of the police state such as Senator Lindsey Graham declared that he was “glad” the government was collecting Verizon phone records—including his own—because the government needs to know what the enemy is up to. Those who take an oath to defend the Constitution from its enemies both foreign and domestic should worry about such statements.
House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers tells us of the tremendous benefits of this Big Brother-like program. He promises us that domestic terrorism plots were thwarted, but he cannot tell us about them because they are classified. I am a bit skeptical, however. In April, the New York Times reported that most of these domestic plots were actually elaborate sting operations developed and pushed by the FBI. According to the Times report, “of the 22 most frightening plans for attacks since 9/11 on American soil, 14 were developed in sting operations.”
Even if Chairman Rogers is right, though, and the program caught someone up to no good, we have to ask ourselves whether even such a result justifies trashing the Constitution. Here is what I said on the floor of the House when the PATRIOT Act was up for renewal back in 2011:
“If you want to be perfectly safe from child abuse and wife beating, the government could put a camera in every one of our houses and our bedrooms, and maybe there would be somebody made safer this way, but what would you be giving up? Perfect safety is not the purpose of government. What we want from government is to enforce the law to protect our liberties.”
What most undermines the claims of the Administration and its defenders about this surveillance program is the process itself. First the government listens in on all of our telephone calls without a warrant and then if it finds something it goes to a FISA court and get an illegal approval for what it has already done! This turns the rule of law and due process on its head.
The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing. We need to turn the cameras on the police and on the government, not the other way around. We should be thankful for writers like Glenn Greenwald, who broke last week’s story, for taking risks to let us know what the government is doing. There are calls for the persecution of Greenwald and the other whistle-blowers and reporters. They should be defended, as their work defends our freedom.
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*golf clap*
Unfortunately this is the media's response whereas it should be outrage and then recognition that all those labelled nuts were right on the money. Yet nothing it seems will light a fire under their asses to dig all the way to 911 and WMD- where the lies fostered the Patriot act and NDAA.
Is Edward Snowden going to be droned?
In death, a member of project mayhem has a name, his name is....
I'll bet Ted Kaczynski is laughing his ass off wanting to take out a pencil and write "I told you so."
Interesting that Obomber's [Jesuit] National Security Advisor, Tom Donilon, "resigned" and was replaced by Susan Rice earlier on the same day that Greenwald's story broke on the NSA.
Could it be any clearer that Rice is a political climbing lapdog for Obumdumbs communist takeover? Nothing to see here, move along, move along? She has proven that she can stay out of the way and read the script when told to. Good doggie.
In case you missed this yesterday:
Snowden donated to Ron Paul's campaign in 2012. It should have been a clue that he was not a goose stepping sycophant who can be influenced to toe the "company" line.
SNOWDEN, EDWARD
COLUMBIA,MD 21045 DELL 3/18/2012 $250 Paul, Ron
SNOWDEN, EDWARD
WAIPAHU,HI 96797 SENIOR ADVISOR 5/6/2012 $250 Paul, Ron
They let a Ron Paul supporter run their servers? If they're that stupid we may have a chance.
The biggest threat to the banks is, that the our puppet government that they use to manipulate our rights will be overthrown by the people. Period. That’s it, not terrorism, not who took out WTC, they already know the answer to those questions! TPTB want to nip revolution in the bu……………
Hold on, someone’s knocking at the door.
Barry boy needs a very very big distraction to divert this shit,,,any guesses???
"Afghanistan Now" with Robert Downey Jr as Colonel Kurtz.
I'm pissed as the next guy about this but if Americans step back and really put the blame to the correct entity, it's the American people who allowed this. DC technocrats are sociopaths by definition so they are being who they are. The populace is allowing this to happen. If the repubs are so rah rah pro-America, why aren't these people arrested, thrown in Gitmo and droned by Lyndsy Graham with John McCain in his lap controlling the joystick. They are all complicit. Nothing will be done.
But then again, LOOK A SQUIRREL THAT LOOKS LIKE KIM KARDASHIAN!!!
BTFD and tend to your garden.
"The government does not need to know more about what we are doing.
We need to know more about what the government is doing.
We need to turn the cameras on the police and on the government, not the other way around. "
god damn right!
Syria, probably.
Get them to shoot down a US plane - not an Israeli one, obviously, as their soldiers' blood is soooo much more than precious that ours - and then get some boots on the ground.
Bit farfetched, I know, but the Russians appear to be backtracking on the S300s, so I expect 'The Free World' to be somewhat emboldened going forward.
The Rice appointment will keep her from giving Congressional testimony. Score Obama.
She is a cab member, they can subpoena her... National Sercurity Advisor with no background fuck she can not be imune....
His name is Robert Paulson.
Interesting that you mentioned Ted Kaczynski. When I watched Glenn Greenwald's interview with Ed Snowden, somehow Unabomber Manifesto came to mind, too. Shall we expect to see an interview with Mr. Kaczynski on 20/20 any time soon?
Should we be shocked...or just waterboarded?
Vindicated.
Or maybe "Renditioned." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0804522/
There are only three main themes in the world today 1. Theft by inflation 2. Misallocated resources (beyond shakey financial markets) 3. Keeping the sheeple in line so 1 and 2 continue.. http://tinyurl.com/mem7o7x
PEACE = NO BANK LOANS + NO WEAPONS CONTRACTS + STAFF REDUCTION IN FBI + STAFF REDUCTION IN NSA ETC ETC.
If their is no enemy, they'll always creat one
We've left the leash off of the US gubmint for far too long, outside of mass public display of protest, somewhere in the millions, we might as well just delete the news channels and keep it auto tuned to your favorite commercially paid waste of time TV brainnumbing show.
Yes Dr. Paul, WE THE PEOPLE! should be shocked.
(golf clap, also Where.Is.The.Fucking.Outrage?)
Forward USSA.
If you are shocked you haven't been paying attention.. http://tinyurl.com/mem7o7x
well... THEY THE PEOPLE... missed it while watching wheel of fortune. Maybe they'll be shocked next time when there's nothing else on TV...
There is always something on TV...
The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
The FBI, IRS, DOJ, DHS, CIA, the Supreme Court, and the White House are no longer a legitimate governing body, having broken their governing contract with the states (the Constitution) on so many occasions, the Federal government has voided its right to govern.
The fact that every State Government has allowed this to continue on so long a time, renders their governing contract just as void and illegitimate as the Federal Government's.
It's way past time to re-secure our God-given inalienable rights. "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Lots of talk about "rights" for the past several hundred years. One only gets rights when one assumes responsibilties, but I don't see any American leader or group scrambling for more responsibility. There is one group that has worked for total control over the last 150 years and now they sit at the top, but they are Americans second. The American goyim are still chewing their cuds contentedly, despite their nonstop bitching. A TV is on in every room 24/7, the State substitutes for daddy, and the few people who have heard of Snowden will have forgotten his name and his act by next week.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/06/10/cbs-news-u-s-state-department-...
WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Uncovered documents show the U.S. State Department may have covered up allegations of illegal behavior ranging from sexual assaults to an underground drug ring.
CBS News reports that is has unearthed documents from the Diplomatic Security Service (DSS), an internal watchdog agency, that implicate the State Department in a series of misconducts worldwide.
Everything is in place for an authoritarian Police State.
Just need some real economic hardship for the public to buy into the final step.
Guess what - that's not too far away.
http://ian56.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/all-infrastructure-tyrant-would-need.html
All the infrastructure a Tyrant would need, courtesy of Bush, Obama and Congress Combining the people who didn't trust Bush and the ones who don't trust Obama adds up to a sizable part of the citizenry. But even if all the critics were proved wrong, even if the CIA, NSA, FBI, and every other branch of the federal government had been improbably filled, top to bottom, with incorruptible patriots constitutionally incapable of wrongdoing, this would still be so: The American people have no idea who the president will be in 2017. Nor do we know who'll sit on key Senate oversight committees, who will head the various national-security agencies, or whether the moral character of the people doing so, individually or in aggregate, will more closely resemble George Washington, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, John Yoo, or Vladimir Putin. What we know is that the people in charge will possess the capacity to be tyrants -- to use power oppressively and unjustly -- to a degree that Americans in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, or 2000 could've scarcely imagined. To an increasing degree, we're counting on having angels in office and making ourselves vulnerable to devils. Bush and Obama have built infrastructure any devil would lust after. Behold the items on an aspiring tyrant's checklist that they've provided their successors:- A torture program that could be restarted with an executive order
Even if you think Bush and Obama exercised those extraordinary powers responsibly, what makes you think every president would? How can anyone fail to see the huge potential for abuses? NOBODY knows who will get voted in, in 2017.Read more at :-
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/all-the-infrastructure-a-tyrant-would-need-courtesy-of-bush-and-obama/276635/
Read more on the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs and Prism at :-
http://ian56.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/verizon-revelations-tom-clements.html
Read more on the catalog of civil rights abuses since Obama came to power at :-
http://ian56.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/obamas-civil-rights-violations.html
"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are NULL AND VOID. --Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (2 Cranch) 137 (1803)"
This includes the Patriot Act.
Statute law cannot and does not supercede, override or modify the Constitution.
Re: Edward Snowden
How is all this different from what William Binney revealed, he being a top guy at NSA?
Hat tip to Ron Paul who has been all over these issues for years.
"How is all this different from what William Binney revealed, he being a top guy at NSA?"
He has actual NSA documents as confirmation.
He's a hero, but he sacrificed his life for nothing, just like Manning. The sheep will pay attention for a while, then go back to texting about nothing with their iToys. The programs revealed will at most be renamed, as was the Total Information Awareness program that everyone was so rightfully enraged about.
And that is why there are so few whistle blowers. Even if they believe what is being done as part of their job is wrong they will, at most, just move to another job, correctly realizing the fact I stated above. Binney is naive if he believes that the same citizens who got us into this mess due to their stupidity, inattention, and apathy will get us out of it. Neither will their bought and paid for "leaders."
Heroes and historical icons
notice it's young guys
guys whose conscience just could not stand it any longer
Both are eloquent
A lot of us have their principle
If every one of us just had an ounce of their courage
Courage, yes. Naivete, yes.
Charging into a machine gun nest is heroic, but your buddies behind you are actually fighting along with you.
This is a case of charging into a machine gun nest while your buddies text each other at McDonalds.
Yes. The way to deal with a machine gun nest is not to charge it recklessly. Instead, just go quietly about your business, GIVING NOTHING TO THE GUNMEN until they starve sitting in their own filth inside their pillbox.
SOMA does not stand for System Open Market Account. It stands for "Sitting On My Ass", which is the policy I now live by. As far as the government is concerned, I am a production unit that has gone dark. This droid is out of service.
SOMA until the mobsters starve and flee to their hideouts in Zurich and Grand Cayman. Go thou and do likewise.
Mother Nature makes lots of morons because she doesn't have to pay attention to the details.
A lot of the young guys typically have less to lose.
Older dudes still have a conscience, and typically families to think of. Also, as Winston Smith 2009 pointed out so well, us older dudes realize that for the effort, likely nothing will change.
...and how they capitalize on that
funny thing, having children and a lot to lose, is my motivator not my detractor
Anyone who has children or is planning on having children should be the most upset about the things that are happening. Anyone who objectively sees the current reality and doesn't want their children to have something better are slaves. Worse, they are doing nothing from preventing the same shackles they wear from being put on their children. Just like the rulers who set this system up, these people deserve nothing but contempt from someone who has the moral courage and intellectual capability of seeing reality for what it is, and more importantly, for doing something to change reality for the better.
In short, fuck the statists and fuck the people to scared to admit they are slaves to the statists.
So fucking true.
One drop of rain, two drops of rain, ten drops of rain, one hundred, one thousand, a million, billions and there was a flood that lasted forty days and forty nights.
This evil power operates under the assumption that if they murder or otherwise destroy a few, then the many will fall in line through fear and be good unquestioning slaves.
It does not work that way. Once the government loses the willing consent of the people, the loss of power is inevitable. It just may take time for a new generation to take the reins (reigns).
"Once the government loses the willing consent of the people, the loss of power is inevitable."
That won't happen until the Games and Circuses end and they haven't.
Ellsberg had great luck, an FBI agent called Deep Throat, that kept him out of jail and it was the revelations of Watergate and not the Pentagon Papers that led to the Church Committee and their minor crackdown on the NSA, CIA, and FBI for Stasi-like activities in the US.
Technology has rendered quaint the techniques used by the fedgov agencies back then and along with the actions and inaction of predominantly ignorant and inattentive voters have now given us the surveillance state that Senator Church warned about. It won't be rolled back.
This evil power operates under the assumption that if they murder or otherwise destroy a few, then the many will fall in line through fear and be good unquestioning slaves.
Kind of sounds like the definition of terrorism.
Even though NSA whistleblower Snowden has more documents than NSA whistleblower William Binney and others, there really is a good question here -
Which is WHY the mainstream media is touting the current incident and not previous whistleblowing incidents, which are buried on the slandered so-called 'conspiracy' sites
The docs do not explain the media circus ... Some whistleblowers have many 'smoking gun' docs, but the media ignores them, especially on America's most forbidden topic, the corruption and bribery of US federal judges, the intimidation and murder of federal judges like John Roll if they don't co-operate, the killing intimidation of Congressmen who try to address the corruption (Sonny Bono murdered, John Conyers had wife jailed and threatened with death)
So why the media circus over Snowden ... the CIA's own Washington Post is helping, plus the at times extremely corrupt UK Guardian
Glenn Greenwald is often very timid, he basically stays away from judicial corruption, all the lawyers who get disbarred and even jailed for trying to fight the bribery
But he's suddenly 'brave' right now on the Snowden story hype
The Guardian and the New York Times ran the Wikileaks hype right up, then they turned 180 degrees and began bashing Assange together, like under orders
Something stinks here, even if Snowden is honest ... and a couple of ZeroHedge commentators have raised some interesting possible 'holes' in the Snowden story that point toward him being a possible planted head-fake
But even if Snowden is honest, was he allowed to escape and spread his material to the media ?
Are they trying to get us to trust some of these corrupt mainstream media stooges again ?
Are they running a test to see how much REAL outrage there is, versus just on 'fringe blogs' like ZeroHedge ?
Are they just trying to get people more used to fascism, and the seeming fact there is little that can be done about it ?
Are they just trying to 'deepen their list' of which Americans should be added to the 1 million or so who already have spaces built and waiting for them in the FEMA concentration camps ?
I'm hoping its an increased awareness among journalists to their own privacy rights violations.
If you are familiar with Dr. Webster Tarpley, his prevailing theory on this is that powerful UK-based media are pushing these stories that they might otherwise suppress in hopes of pressuring Obama to become more cooperative in European wars of aggression in Syria and North Africa.
America is the military arm of the all powerful British Empire. And England is not happy with Obama's failure to follow the script.
We lost the war of 1812. They just let us keep the name.
While cynicism is always warranted these days, it is nonsense to suggest that Greenwald is "timid", and even more absurd to lump him into a category of "corrupt mainstream media stooges".
It's not any different, except the public are now waking up.
William Binney on Democracy Now from last year.
http://privacysos.org/node/589
The 'government' has identified the enemy and we are it.
exactly
"We need to turn the cameras on the police and on the government, not the other way around."
Taking Ron Paul's suggestion, then the real enemy is...?
In Taxachusetts, the Transit Authority refuses to turn over their retirement payout records due to "privacy" issues. Yet they full expect the taxpayers to write the checks because the Transit System loses money every year.
The scariest part is that the sheeple response is we just got to pay it even though we have no idea what we are paying for and to whom because of privacy.
Also the same thing with welfare recipients etc.
Meanwhile, certain local and state governments are all to happy to turn over concealed carry permit holder records -- names and addresses. But God forbid they release the names of those receiving food stamps and other government handouts. No, that's a privacy breach.
Of course. That is the dialectic that is being created to destroy the US. The government is being led to believe that the people are the enemy and the people are being led to believe that the government is the enemy. The question is: Who is manipulating the dialectic safely out of view? It seems likely that it is those who have the money power (and their ultimate leader) because they are the ones who bought the media, bought corporate America and its leaders and bought our politicians. They control the game and unless both side wake up to the fact that they are being maipulated by evil forces that want us to fight each other this will not end well.
To fix the problem target those who are manipulating the dialectic, not those who are servants to it.
not sure why you got the down votes.
i guess people dont understand that you cut the snakes head off and the body will follow suit.
Maybe some of us have realized that replacing bad guys with different bad guys is not the answer.
For perhaps ten thousand years, bad guys have been being replaced and government is still the evil shit it's always been.
If a person can't learn from that and the complete failure that the US has become, then they are too stupid to be repaired.
He got down votes because this board is monitored by people in the employ of the elites.
It is a bit telling to observe the number of down votes in relation to the subject matter. There is a slight correlation.
Right, the Saudis. They bought Clinton and Bush, they have us advancing the Muslim Brotherhood in the middle east. They paid for Obama's Harvard according to Willie Sutton, and they are surely clever enough to understand how vulnerable libtards are in their fears of being culturally judgmental. Yep, pretty clear, it's the muzzies.
Not much has changed sine the early 1900's. Rockefellar and Morgan heirs and representatives still vie for ownership rights of USSA inc.
"In the end, there can be only one."
..because the government realizes the opposite. It knows there is a growing body of knowlege and discontent. Likely unstoppable.
In the greatest irony, it seeks to cage the internet knowing it is the one beast of truth in can not slay
and like its resource and financial wars, its political ones will be violently self destructive as well.
Hmmm maybe the tide is changing. CBS is breaking a story on state department coverups.
This too serves the dialectic designed to destroy the US. We are weakened when we fight ourselves. Root out the rats and unrepentent, the way Andrew Jackson did. I can only imagine that it is 1000 times worse today.
The US government was a mistake from the beginning.
All governments are.
best comment of the thread by far.
Yeah, because a constitutional republic with elected top officers is just so tyranical.
You are an anarchist and anarchists have NEVER been anything other than fools and tools.
Anyone who supports government, a man made creation that caused 400 million deaths in the 20th century, is either insane or stupid.
How many deaths will your alter ego kill in the 21st century?
Oh, you must be referring to his Trail of Tears?
If "the tide is changing" in mainstream media, it means that the Big Event is near.
None of this would have ever hit the MSM except they snooped on thier MSM buddies accounts as well. This would never have gone main stream if they had left their friends alone.
Possibly... but the timing of that could also have been "on purpose". People who want to throw darts at "conspiracy theorists" like to talk about how many different moving pieces would need to be in on a lie... but often a single act can create responses from whole groups of people that are easy to predict. Those people are not in on the lie as much as they are easy to lead.
I see the (ene)media always in line with the policies of the Obama administration. Owners of Big Media are corporatists on board with the "everything is good and getting better" narrative. Their editors write the news.
I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Shocked, absolutely not. Criminal Federal Government run by Criminals for Criminals.
Think he was referring to a taser there
PRISM at work..
http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2013/06/10/1226661/442901-130611-ku...
The NSA is one thing, and its bad, but the private companies like TRW, Booz Allen, Boeing and Lockheed plush British Aerospace are all helping and the Constitution has no control over those...and the information they have and can lose is amazing
I am still naive enough to be shocked by the reaction of "if you have nothing to hide, why would you mind being monitored?", but I am hearing that. Mostly from people that still refer to Bush 2 as a war criminal and nazi.
#HiBarry
when who you voted for becomes something to hide, it's too late.
When someone who you voted for has something to hide, it's too late.
I hear it all over too. SHows you just how fast they can be conditioned
We need to wake up to the fact that virtually all "so called" leaders are war criminals by whatever other label you attach to them; Nazis, Commis, Fascists, Dictators, Oligarchs ... etc.
Name one in the last 100 years who was not.
Then as the question why? Why are we (humans) always being driven to fight ourselves by those whom we are supposed to trust. Then ask ulitmately who keeps driving us in this direction and what they have to gain by keep us weak and battling internally.
Satan?
Why are we (humans) always being driven to fight ourselves by those whom we are supposed to trust.
Dunno, maybe it's instinctive....http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1232/1232-h/1232-h.htm
The Lizard people?
not surprising.. its the same response I got from limbaugh / beck / hannity followers when all this was first revealed under shrub... now the hope and change koolaiders... have made it ok..becasue thier criminal AKA has expanded the policy.. go figure..
pavlovian politics...
we deserve it at this point.
MY children DO NOT deserve it, and I think most of us feel this way.
If you are so despondent and demoralized before all peaceful options have not been used and not a single bullet has flown in open rebellion, then you are 'faint of heart', to say the least.
Bullets have been flying for some time now. You may not have noticed. What do you think those SWAT, ATF and DEA raids are about? Did you not notice the Ruby Ridge terror operation or the Oklahoma City Murrah Bldg. or the Branch Davidian destruction? Did you miss 9/11?
No, your kids don't deserve this, but like those kids in Palestine and the nearby refugee camps, they're going to experience it. I feel sorry for them.
@replaceme:
As I have stated before, your answer should be that they should be very concerned, as they don't get to determine what's "right" or "wrong", someone else does that, and what they think is "right" today, may be "wrong" tomorrow, and end up with them in a re-education camp, mental institution, or renditioned to east bumfuckistan for further evaluation.
This is the same playbook that has been used since at least Roman times, only this time they have much more sophisticated tools, and it seems to me, a much more compliant populace. Public "education" has done its work well, and the "panet et circenses" much more entertaining and omnipresent.
Pray for total collapse of the system, so the beast may be starved as well.
Yeah, there Mike. Authority decides right/wrong. The innocent can't be controlled, therefor their conversion to guilty until proven otherwise.
Guilty folk assume sheepish qualities.
Still, nothing new here. It's just that with the Freedom of Information act, the breakup of MSM and the Internet Reformation, more is exposed.
Back in FDR's Reign of Terror, information was all filtered. That's what made the State what it is today.
And my, my, did Ron Paul ever get the message out!!! This is a good revelation here.
If just one more dupe gains enlightenment, it's all worth it. One mind at a time.
And, like the Bush before him, everywhere now, I hear "We had such hope for Obama."
So I comment "Put shit on one hand and hope on the other and see which you get first."
Theater of the Macabre.
Anyone remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNXVgYhPOc
Either the man was lying through his teeth or was utterly clueless about what goes on in his own agency
I'd laugh at at how many of these tools are being exposed in their lies except I'm becoming more convinced this is on purpose.
In a couple months when no one is held to account for these crimes their message will be clear:
We know everything you do and say and there's nothing you can do about it.
Your conclusion is what makes this so infuriating.
You are, of course, correct.
-30-
Like Pure Evil likes to say
~~~
"IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS"
That cat just loves to be spied on & censored...
I thought about rolling an alt named Pure Stupid that would up arrow him and agree with everything he said, but in the end I thought that was too subtle for him.
I'll take lieing for $200 Alex...
Shades of Truth ----
http://goatmug.blogspot.com/2013/06/shades-of-truth.html
The office pool is bullish "lying."
-30-
And of course they would not intefere, edit, invent, insert artificial records as well.
Or would they say use personal information for political purposes...like if somebody want to run for some sort office...
This is exactly the issue. The IRS scandal, if you believe the govt, is that rogue employees were doing what ever the hell they wanted to. But if you pause a moment, and think, the Tea Parties complained all the way to Congress and it was never resolved. Still isn't resolved. What happens if your next door neighbor NSA guy is mad because your kids keep kicking a ball in his yard? State Dept? Justice Dept?
Effectively every campaign office is bugged by the people in power. Long incumbents.
Well I am definitely not shocked by this spying. I go about my day to day life as if this is the case.
I also see every thwarted terrist plot as a sting until otherwise confirmed.
My biggest fear is that this landslide of scandals will only indict this current administration, and not the entire system.
The system is the problem, not who runs it. Too many will fall for the prettier horse in the glue factory, the party not in power.
I hope these are big enough to make people realize that the US government is there to protect the interests of the US government.
Those interests might be vastly different than the people there.
pods
@ pods
+1 Good point, but only scratches the surface of the ulterior motive I'm sure.
Not following. Expand?
The collusion must include all of .gov, or there would never be any synchronicity to their actions.
Many believe of in .gov incompetence, however the stakeholders would not leave this to chance.
Sooo... there are ulterior motives which we do not foresee, and can only hypothesize.
Oh I can see many ulterior motives of those within the system. And at certain points, public opinion is going to go against the system. Those who wish to maintain the status quo also realize this.
So at certain points, key members of this system are purged. Kind of a sell by date for the figurehead.
Their best method of achieving this is through elections. Every major election cycle one group is satisfied that things are going to change.
This group alternates over time, allowing the status quo to march ahead while the average person is trapped in the silly game set up to ensnare them.
As for collusion, it does run government wide. Just like in average society, even in government there are those who see certain jobs as worthless. But it is never their own.
That is why it works. Because they are under the impression that they are making a positive difference in the lives of those affected.
Taken as a whole, it is horribly rotten. But one CPS agent who saves one kid is satisfied that THEIR job is worthwhile.
And the nature of all of these jobs is that each one is compartmentalized enough that nobody sees the big picture.
pods
Dude, I have worked for .gov for nearly twenty five years and never underestimate government stupidity.
There is not enough discipline for the entire government to be engaged in some vast conspiracy.
But I do agree that there is conspiracy, as such is merely 'networking' for illegal or corrupt purposes. what causes the problems in this nation are at the top appointed and career bureacrat ranks.
Pods
My biggest fear is that the empire does what it does best and that is to lull the sheep back to sleep. Sure people are in a tizzy right now, but the empire is very good a distraction and making these type of events just disappear.
Nothing brings together a populace that is living in fear of its own government like a war that is seen as just.
Yep, a lot of people are very emotional right now, and are no doubt calling for a sacrifice from the administration.
That is the thing that actually gets me angry. That so many fall for the easy, no doubt scripted, sacrifice of a player, instead of seeing the system as the problem.
I have been around this since I first head of TIA, or Eschelon or whatever name it was back then.
It never goes away. Now it is prism.
It will get another name, more off sheet funding, and grow.
Twenty years from now we will be longing for the days when only this goes on.
pods
I remember Echelon, worldwide tapping of phones. You know, to thwart the Red Menance and all.
Well then, there is a use for voice recognition software. And look at the explosion of computer memory in the past 20 years (I wrote my thesis on a 20MB hard drive), not to mention the birth of the trend algorithm.
This really sucks, not sure how much the average person realizes how powerful all of this is.
There was also a Carnivore in the 90's for internal monitoring of emails and what not.
I am betting not even the current administration will be indicted by the vast majority of people (much less indictement of the entire system). The MSM will dispense with this within a week.
It's going to be difficult to lull them to sleep with a raging economic crisis and their toilet paper money turning to shit...
Things are about to change...
Once the money system collapses, the TPTB are FUCKED...
Look for a MASSIVE revaluation in the precious metals and Bitcoin...
I really wish I could agree with you that people are in a tizzy right now, but based on my anecdotal observations, that doesn't seem to be the case. The apathy in this country truly worries me.
Apathy has been killing this nation far a long time that's for sure.
This confirms a few things:
A) It's now a silly idea to believe these companies like Booz Allen are truly private entities.....this also proves that the silly idea of private citizens no longer exists (unless you are a 1%er). I think that will be the new "premium" of the future - paying the state/corporation for the "privilege" of privacy (as well as other perks, like not being subjected to data austerity which I foresee coming in the future).
B) This also confirms that best way now to think of a country is as a large corporation you happen to work for. What does this mean? The Constitution, something which *We the people* feel is a key cog in the social contract of a nation's society in relation to its government.....is sadly, no longer moot. It's like a contract that's written by a corporation: the corporation (in this case, the US Government) believes that it can be ripped up at any time, for any reason, for any target, at any time. Since they also play "the arbiter" in the legal system, they feel they can also change the rules whever they feel it is best (this will be sold as, "for the good of the country").
Whenever you hear "for the good of the country"...remember this line was first conjoured up by the Royals in the Middle Ages, along with Joesph Goebbels. And as we've seen on twitter, these policies already have their defenders in the MSM, punditry, and amongst the D.C. lobby whores.
C) Ron Paul on Govt Spying: "Should we be shocked?". Well, I hope Ron wasn't, considering his Super PAC's main funder, Peter Thiel, owns Palantir.....a CIA contractor that develops software for spying on citizens.
We are SO fucked.
"It is easier to build strong children than it is to repair broken men" - Frederick Douglass
What gives you the impression the current administration will be indicted...
This is a game that we play... the out group... faction out of power... supposedly after the in group... the faction in power...
We the people are the out group... the collective government is the in group... But it must be amusing as hell to watch the country take sides while their masters choose the teams...
"..The system is the problem, not who runs it..."
That rings a bell, John Steinbeck style:
The system is something else than men. It happens that every man in the system hates what the system does, and yet the system does it. The system is something more than men, I tell you. It’s the monster. Men made it, but they can’t control it.”
Comment deleted, nevermind.
<---- Junk here for relief from all these recent bad developments
I'm not shocked by this information, and I expect nothing to change. The average American is too busy sutffing the Big Mac into their mouth while trying to watch "So You Can Dance" and "The Voice" on 2 TV's at the sametime.
The avg anerican will never do anything ever so they're irrelevant in consideration of what will make something 'change'....it won't ever be due to them, that's for certain.
When will people realize government is not here for you? In any way shape or form? They do not provide any service or product that any other normal person or organization couldn't provide.
The notion that they represent "the will of the people" is laughable, when you realize they have to put a gun to your head and threaten you with jail time if you don't follow their rules. Nobody does anything in your interest when it has to be backed by force, plain and simple.
Until people realize the very "existence" of the government as an entity is what will always bring us to war and depravity, things will never change.
People always argue about poltics, parties, bills, and the process without ever asking if anyone actually ever asked for any of these.
It's like being able to choose your rapist out of a pool, and then convincing yourself and others that you have free choice because the rapist belonging to your "party" is better than the other rapists. But you never stopped to reliaze you do not have a choice of not being raped.
Until people stop hacking away at the branches and focus on the root of the problem (government), things will never improve.
It is not Bush, Obama, the Liberals, Democrats, local or state governments. It IS government that is the problem. And we must educate others and make them aware of this.
Until we remove this cancer from human society, we will always be repeating the same mistakes... putting our trust in someone we believe to have a higher degree of morality and intelligence because they are part of the rapist group.
and they produce things we don't want or even need, can't afford and can't get rid of. i hate to hate the folks woring for the gov't, but they are the philosophical enemy of even themselves, useful idiots. ghandi was angry, but christ was forgiving...long cruel march continues.
Please read George Orwell's "1984".
Granted,it's a depressing read,even though unbelievably prophetic.
However,to read this-easily enough read-book,is to see that, not only is the story of
enslavement nothing new,and the ultimate end point predictable, but also,that the antidote
to totalitarian slavery is personal responsibility.
Talk to your friends and neighbours,tell them what you know.Don't continue to be part of the silent majority.
Seriously do you think anyone here probably HASN'T read 1984??
You would be amazed at how many there are out there who won't even bother to read Animal Farm much less an entire book.
What would amaze me is if Zerohedge was full of a bunch of people who have never even read standard high school/freshman college books before.
I have never graduated from High School or College, and that is probably the reason why I'm here and HAVE read all of George Orwell's works and ARE aware of what is going on in this world, more so than most graduates.
Don't assign too much weight to government regulated education and the people it produces.
“In our dream we have limitless resources, and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hand. The present educational conventions fade from our minds; and, unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning or of science. We are not to raise up among them authors, orators, poets, or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians. Nor will we cherish even the humbler ambition to raise up from among them lawyers, doctors, preachers, statesmen, of whom we now have ample supply."
- Rev. Frederick T. Gates, Business Advisor to John D. Rockefeller Sr., 1913
Maybe everyone here has read 1984 but I am amazed by how many people don't even know what that is.....
1984 ..... wasn't that the year Prince dropped "Purple Rain"
::Heavy Sarc
for all you lets deluge them with data, here's another view point..tax unit oh I mean citizen A, has a chance encounter with one of our over lords er I mean elected or unelected rulers- and some how it is recorded or video'e and makes it on the net or tv (telly for our brits)...well one call to NSA, CIa, IRS, NSA did I say NSA? and all of serf oh I mean citizen A's life is then data minded from the copious files..little people who do not make it to public view beware, they end up dead..V foster,Obuma's gay lovers, and so many we never knew of.
Probably everybody on this web site has read or a least is very familiar with 1984.
Think of the sheer number of Americans who didn't even couldn't even comprehend the overt allusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfqw8nhUwA (much less get see the irony - back then it was of proprietary and closed designs- which then morphed into a cancerous desire to join the evil empire's establishment).
It's not like half of America didn't see that video live...
ain't read it, is it on cd yet. seriously, can't read everything that's ever been written, love ayn rand, history in general, biographies, philosophy, but i get the point of the book. what i found fascinating was that liberals were scared of the prophetical nature, but were still big gub folks, go figure.
I appreciate the honesty of your post. I tend to be sarcastic so please dont take it personally. How can you get the point without reading the book? Could you get the point of ATLAS SHRUGGED without reading it? yea there was like this chick and she was like boning a architect and the rebublicans really eat that shit up. Fair metaphor?
What is this "reading" of which you speak?
But seriously as the principles and methods of totalitarian society portrayed in 1984 are demonstrated more and more in USA society everyday it is quite strange. How could a man have such foresight? It is also strange to see a book that I considered to be fiction come true. I find the portrayal of naming things their exact opposite "ministry of peace" to have so many contemporary examples its the norm. This practice has the effect of destroying meaning and once meaning is destroyed, the state can tell you what meaning is. The widespread use of acronyms serves the same function and is also forseen by Orwell.
ZH in some ways a true expression of freedom as defined by 1984.
Freedom is the ability to say 2+2=4
See yall in room 101
2+2=5, Im practicing
Hey Government r u listening????
FUCK YOU O'SELLOUT AND FUCK YOU COCKROACH CONGRESS WHORES AND SENATORS
AND, FUCK YOU CIA, FBI, NSA, AND THE REST OF YOU TOTALITARIAN WISHING MOTHER FUCKERS...
FUCK THE US GOVERNMENT AND ALL ITS BANKER OWNED BRANCHES...
I WILL NOT SUBMITT....FUCK YOU ALL.........
There aren't enough +1's in the world for this.
I hope they aren't monitoring green arrows too.
Three green arrows and you're out.
Yep, there's a video about the Eagle Drone........it can snatch you right up for re-education encampment.
Of course they are. Make up your mind now - leave ZH today or stand and be counted. Your choice.
Down arrowed in hope of avoiding room 101.
How about you try telling us how you really feel?
Well said Ron. Thanks for not disappearing too deeply into retirement.
Unfortunately, Dr. Paul can only scratch that itch - not remove the scab that infects the wound.
Playahs, we are.
Our government betters know that they can get away with all of this. They control the dialouge and the majority does not care. The destruction of privacy has all been poll-tested and citizen-approved.