This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Germany Demands Obama Explain "American-Style Stasi Methods"

Tyler Durden's picture


When even Zee Germans are staring open-mouthed at what they call "American-style Stasi methods" you know things have got a little out of hand. As Reuters reports, German outrage over a U.S. Internet spying program has broken out ahead of a visit by Barack Obama, with ministers demanding the president provide a full explanation when he lands in Berlin next week and one official likening the tactics to those of the East German Stasi. "The more a society monitors, controls and observes its citizens, the less free it is," Merkel's Justice Minister exclaimed, adding, "the suspicion of excessive surveillance of communication is so alarming that it cannot be ignored." While Obama has defended it as a "modest encroachment" on privacy and reassured Americans that no one is listening to their phone calls, the Germans reflect "I thought this era had ended when the DDR fell."


Via Reuters,



German Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman has said she will raise the issue with Obama in talks next Wednesday, potentially casting a cloud over a visit that was designed to celebrate U.S.-German ties on the 50th anniversary John F. Kennedy's famous "Ich bin ein Berliner" speech.


Government surveillance is an extremely sensitive topic in Germany, where memories of the dreaded Stasi secret police and its extensive network of informants are still fresh in the minds of many citizens.




"The more a society monitors, controls and observes its citizens, the less free it is," she said.


"The suspicion of excessive surveillance of communication is so alarming that it cannot be ignored. For that reason, openness and clarification by the U.S. administration itself is paramount at this point. All facts must be put on the table."


Markus Ferber, a member of Merkel's Bavarian sister party who sits in the European Parliament, went further, accusing Washington of using "American-style Stasi methods".


"I thought this era had ended when the DDR fell," he said, using the German initials for the failed German Democratic Republic.




Obama has defended it as a "modest encroachment" on privacy and reassured Americans that no one is listening to their phone calls.




Peter Schaar, the German official with responsibility for data privacy, said this was grounds for "massive concern" in Europe.


"The problem is that we Europeans are not protected from what appears to be a very comprehensive surveillance program," he told the Handelsblatt newspaper. "Neither European nor German rules apply here, and American laws only protect Americans."


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:30 | 3646715 RacerX
RacerX's picture

ah this is where it starts getting interesting.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:33 | 3646725 true brain
true brain's picture

"but we learnt it from you." Obama.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:34 | 3646745 maskone909
maskone909's picture

They pulled yo skirt up B

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:36 | 3646754 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Obama: One Big Ass Mistake America

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:37 | 3646764 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture


The Stasi only dreamed of these capabilities.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:41 | 3646784 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Merkel, the former communist organizer, wants answers.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:45 | 3646809 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Pots and kettles clanging loudly against one another.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:13 | 3646945 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

"the lives of others"...great movie about east germany before the wall fell

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:14 | 3646950 knukles
knukles's picture

OK... What's the line on mooch going to meet Angie?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:19 | 3646982 Element
Element's picture
    The world is not supposed to rotate in this direction.
Edward Snowden: Russia offers to consider asylum request

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:32 | 3647047 knukles
knukles's picture

Sure glad all this shits being reported in the British newspapers.  Makes me feel right at home in the Matrix....  Say did you all see Tebow's comments?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:22 | 3647306 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Don't you love the irony? There's hope that if you're presented with some (vaguely, ish, diluted) honesty, things don't have to be so batshit crazy pants. It's only a theory, so welcome to where the Wild Things Are!


Your MSM loves you being batshitcrazypants; easy to sell you fear remedies.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:38 | 3647379 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The biggest irony of all is that all this crack reporting is being furnished to you courtesy of Rothschild owned REUTERS...

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:40 | 3647390 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Never said it was my theory.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:57 | 3647465 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Just reminding everyone that nothing escapes the ever constant eye of Sauron


Only difference is that some are Orcs [who fight for the cause], some are Hobbits & Elves... & there's always a few Smeagols in the crowd too who are willing to LEND you a hand if it means staying close to the Precious...

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 16:25 | 3647577 Greyhat
Greyhat's picture

And Moerkel forgot to tell us, that the German Counselers Office itself and the BND are the housekeepers of the NSA data slurping machinery in Germany. Thats why germany is orange on their map, they get everything they want here. :)

Moerkel just wants to say "do us a pleasure and make shure your ops in Germany dont pop up in the media, we have elections in september"...


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:35 | 3647061 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Putin is licking his chops.  Get an intelligence asset AND poke the US in the eye at the same time.

Russians play chess.  We play checkers.  (Another ZH member goes a bit further by saying "we eat the checkers," which I thought was a great line, worthy of repeating.)

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:02 | 3647200 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Russians play chess.  We play checkers.

lol, good joke, but no, checkers is not our chess, ie parlor game of choice among adult males.

Poker is. Chess has the same set up everytime, while poker gives you random cards at least some of which are face down and hidden. Chess is purely mental strategy and analysis, poker requires strategy and analysis as well as the ability to think from the perspective of other people and read their cues.

Chess is the parlor game for ideologues who prefer to think in an abstract world of perfect peices and standardized, equal starting points. Poker is real life; unfair, partially hidden and disguised, and you play what you get.

Chess is for egg heads, poker is for people who prefer real world challenges, lol.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:16 | 3647276 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Au contraire. We Americans prefer slots. Sit on you fat ass for hours. Free drinks. Cheap buffet, all you can stuff down. TV like graphics and thought-numbing noise. And a guaranteed losing proposition.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 10:19 | 3649916 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Nah, thats the retired Americans whose memories wont let them play poker any more...them and women.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:03 | 3647213 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture




Thus passed the once-great Republic, in a puff of Cheerios dust.



Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:58 | 3646867 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Yes, a fascist love fest between two criminals who deny in public their ongoing crimes.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 17:34 | 3647873 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Merkel wants answers?

The answer is:  Do the same thing you did when you had to live with the DDR Stasi as you now have with the USSA Stasi. 

Adapt & counter, in your own German way: Low-tech asymmetry eventually beats the demands of hi-tech bandwidth.  :-)

I.e. Be careful what you say to whom, and where.  In the meantime, deluge the system with useless Noise.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:42 | 3646793 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Total bullshit coming from a country (germany) that lives in a virtual mental lockdown.

Denying the hollowcost is a crime in Germany.

And they complain about this?

All zis huffing and puffing is just drama.



Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:56 | 3646860 pods
pods's picture

Ya kind of lose the moral high ground when you will toss someone in jail for asking a question.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:59 | 3646872 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

If this were not the "Summer of Recovery" I'd be really depressed.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:13 | 3646944 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

@pods : precisely.

@ cheap b: germany has been in a perpetual summer of recovery since wwii. no wonder they are depressed.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:35 | 3647062 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Please Don't mention zee war

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:15 | 3647271 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

denying a genocide is the same as calling for more genocide. It has NO purpose but to commit a new generation to a new genocide. There have been so many. The only real immorality here is to declare one genocide more important than the others as "the" holocaust.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:23 | 3648014 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Funny (strange), but it's not the Germans who are denying the Holocaust.  Only some Americuns (of German descent?) have that 'challenge'.  If ya know what I mean.

Having said that, millions of Christians --even Catholics -- were murdered.  Hitler was 'Catholic'.  Not to mention the 14 million of Russians who died.  To keep things in perspective and our feet on the ground.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:55 | 3653017 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I know who's denying what.

Israel denies Naqba mass graves of Palestinians killed in 1948

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 19:43 | 3648386 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Absurd and funny:

IM Erika (=Merkel's cover name when she was collaborating with the Stasi in the GDR!) is prosecuting every year more than 10.000 peaceful people for political reasons!

The FRG today has mor political prisoners today, than the GDR ever had.

IM Erika is supporting the US Echelon system, knowing, that it intercepts all phone calls and that it's industry espionage creates a damage of more than 20 billion Euros every year!

What a disgusting regime.


ps: for the NSA computers: terror, bomb, Allah, Obama, dead, dirty bomb

pps: fuck you, retarded globalists!

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:53 | 3646851 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Never saw this coming.  Hats off to the Germans for speaking up.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 16:30 | 3647598 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

Is "Stasi-Style" the sequel to PSY's "Gangnam Style". 

I can't wait to see Obama star in his first Music Video.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:57 | 3648219 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


He's not educated enough to appear in a music video.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:37 | 3646768 macholatte
macholatte's picture



The really scary part: they've been doing this for years and still make lousy policy decisions.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:38 | 3646769 maskone909
maskone909's picture

Damn that has a nice ring good job +1

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646778 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Well some around here (myself included) have observed that TPTB may be throwing O under the bus, the better to get their next patsy lined up for the job in 2016.

If so then I suspect we'll be hearing a lot more about "truth in government" real soon now from the next annointed Fascist leader of the supposedly "free" world.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:52 | 3646848 davinci7_gis
davinci7_gis's picture

I agree...the president of Chile sat in Obama's Oval Office chair just the other if that wasn't a total "F" you to his face, then I don't know what is!

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:28 | 3648069 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

They were discussing American investments in Chile, no doubt.  Commodities, farmland.

Which the Mormons are buying up 50x faster than Simon Black and his readers.  Rich Mormons buying up poor Catholics.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:59 | 3648223 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Neocons will bring Rand Paul in to really confuse people.

He is most willing to comply and toe (and tow) the neocon line.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:53 | 3646852 reload
reload's picture

Even the BBC, who went into default damage limitation mode yesterday am are still struggling to get talking heads to interview who will play the game and give them the `if you are doing nothing wrong....bla bla` argument.

Today they had ex M15 head Stella Rimmington on air - who should have been a dead cert to play the game. She did not, pointing out that even if people trust their current governments things should never be put in place that could be abused politically or commercially. Once again the interviewer was left floundering for a way to close the piece on message.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:13 | 3647266 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

the wonderous BBC is still trying to stop youtubers who uploaded the segment on 9/11/2001 of them calling the wtc7 down 10 minutes before it did, "copyright infringement"

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 16:52 | 3647682 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

It is coming apart at the seams.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 20:06 | 3648467 throughthelooki...
throughthelookingglass's picture

Interesting in the UK the story is broken by the Guardian while the Telegraph, another mainstream broadsheet that is also a security service mouthpiece bearly mentions it ... they're probably hoping that if they don't mention it, people will pay more attention to the rugby and cricket ... mind you the Telegraph much prefers security theatre ... rather than security fact ...

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:46 | 3646814 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

"Candidate Obama debates President Obama", starring Barry O...... Don't forget the popcorn.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:36 | 3648125 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Bush & Cheney must be ROTF, laughing their asses off.  Carefully Mr. Cheney, your heart-pump might malfunction (operate outside its design parameters).

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 20:00 | 3648443 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

"Let me be clear, most Americans believe___________________________"(<insert bullshit here)-BHO

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:27 | 3646925 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"Obama: One Big Ass Mistake America"...

dont ya'll get it???

he was purposely planted there after 8 years of the other puppet...

that's why he came with that "hope and change" bullshit cause they knew dumb ass americas would fall for it after all the crazy shit the Bush clique did...they're all controlled by the moneychangers.........

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:34 | 3646747 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Germany is regretting it did not have excessive surveillance on the vault it's gold was stored in.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:30 | 3647042 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

gone, long gone, all gone, the German gold that was in 33 Liberty. Not really there....took a walk

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:37 | 3646767 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

So here's a question to think about:  When the US catches a terrorist BEFORE the planned event and thwarts any action, did anyone consider to ask themselves the simple question "I wonder how they intercepted communications detailing the plot?"

This has been going on for years.  Everything you do on the internet is watched.  No one should be surprised by this.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:59 | 3646875 pods
pods's picture

Every single terrrist plot thwarted has come right out of the FBI.

They have like a 99% rate on stopping the plots they started. The 1% was the first WTC attack, when they fucked up and gave them the real bomb.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:34 | 3647060 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Giving them the real bomb was NOT a fuck-up, it was part of the plan. The informant protested and recorded his FBI handlers insisting on not only a live bomb, but a particular placement of the bomb where it would do the most damage.


Thankfully, the informant did not place the bomb exactly where specified, and it did far less damage than it could potentially have done.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:03 | 3646891 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

To date I believe most all the thwarted attempts were when the suspect was being led into the crime by the agents who arrested them, so that this type of surveillance was unnecessary in those cases.

On the other hand we have the Boston bombers with clear links to terrorism from the Russian government and they aren't able to stop that despite all this surveillance? These Boston guys were a case where these methods would be legally applicable and no one would have a problem with them being used. Perhaps if they weren't spying on all Americans then they may have been able to use more resources on the people that need it.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:04 | 3646900 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


"I wonder how they intercepted communications detailing the plot?"

No need to intercept communications when you've written the script and hired the patsies.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:18 | 3646976 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

The ones that I remembered being thwarted,  were because some retarded wannabes tried to buy explosives from the friendly FBI.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 19:48 | 3648404 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Why would someone try to buy explosives from the FBI when they are easily obtained from your local chapter of the Crips?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:32 | 3647050 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

So why no coverage of 'Main Core' db?

Now thats a Big Deal...!

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 16:20 | 3647564 pods
pods's picture

I prefer to call it my Zerohedge contact list backup.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646780 Talcott
Talcott's picture

...the legacy of operation paperclip(aka give a bunch of warcriminals carte blanche in the US subervion state)

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:58 | 3646870 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

Two word answer: Reinhard Gehlen.

IOW, yes, we learned it from you.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:17 | 3646969 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

"All facts must be put on the table."




Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:43 | 3647404 Midasking
Midasking's picture

I've seen this story before... the action scene is coming up soon! The suspense is killing me though.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:33 | 3646734 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

The average Germans are smarter than the average Americans, so thats why they can do this in America, the O-Puppet in Chief will say.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646774 Matt
Matt's picture

The problem is that they are spying on the whole Internet, not just America. This could be the beginning of the end of the Internet as a (mostly) single network, with countries compartmentalizing off behind their own national firewalls.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:01 | 3647206 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

servers & lines not in the USA will require stations built & operating outside the USA. I'm sure there's some but certainly plenty that are not.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:33 | 3646735 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

It's poetry in motion when the Germans ask, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS, INSECURE ABOUT DISSENT?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:34 | 3646742 Gidas19
Gidas19's picture

Obama: "Don't worry, we will explain everything when we give you your gold back Germany..."

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:35 | 3646753 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

We have our cameras and surveillance on everything but our supposed holdings of gold. Makes sense. 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:20 | 3646980 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

"Hello Bundesbank, have some coin bars, they're nearly as good as the real thing, just a bit orangey in color, no one will notice. What's that? Sorry, you don't want the coin bars? You already got lots of coin bars in Paris. Well, well, this is a problem. OK lets put it like this. You take the fuckin coin bars or we break your fuckin bradwurst weiners, got it? OK, thats better.'

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:36 | 3646760 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

wait till one of these guys turns and starts talking about the "main core" and the government's advance planning for these people. 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:59 | 3647194 noless
noless's picture

It's exceedingly obvious I've been listed, It's fucking insane to watch.

(don't ban me bro)

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:37 | 3646766 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

USD/JPY is fuckign melting down right now.  

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:46 | 3646811 RSloane
RSloane's picture

I'm watching it. I feel like someone smeared vasoline on my reading glasses. Its either that or the USD/JPY is shitting itself right through my screen.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:46 | 3646818 Phat Stax
Phat Stax's picture

What's up?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:06 | 3646907 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Unfortunately for FX carry traders, the yen

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646775 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Not really, cause we actually gave Germany full access to the data that was mined.  They were in on it from the beginning, Merkel is playing the "re-elect" me card.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:56 | 3646861 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Of course - but that tells you that the German people aren't down for this (having lived through it and its fallout twice now).  Their support and insights should be welcomed.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:57 | 3646863 augustusgloop
augustusgloop's picture

she's a chemist and an opportunist! she quickly became part of the democracy movement after the fall of the berlin wall. 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:13 | 3646943 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Or the CYA card to keep her ass from being thrown jail for ECHR violations, given the suspiciously high number disclosed intercepts from Germany.  Although the extent to which the NSA was actually sharing data and analysis about mistresses and offshore bank accounts of members of her own Government remains up in the air, other leaders in Europe have a more plausible case for ignorance of scope.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:13 | 3646947 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Fuck!  Is it Christmas!

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:46 | 3647128 km4
km4's picture

Pentagon Papers whistleblower says NSA leak is most important in US history

United Stasi of America

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:51 | 3647159 B2u
B2u's picture

The respond to Germany was we won WWII, F.O.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 16:08 | 3647518 RabidAngel
RabidAngel's picture

Yes, it is. This monitoring affects everyone on a global scale. It would take an enormous amount of pressure from foreign countries to create any real change. Maybe an impossible amount.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:15 | 3648023 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Said it before here last weekend, but to fit the occasion,
this is my topical German translation :

Nur Unrechtsregime brauchen Ueberwachung !

And to set the record straight, I want to see people engaging in Gestapo/Stasi like activities behind prison bars.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:33 | 3646730 kito
kito's picture

bullshit...please dont tell me germanys spooks werent aware or in collaboration with the cia/nsa........................

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:37 | 3646763 FoeHammer
FoeHammer's picture

Politicians are quick to wave a finger at other 'dirty shirts'.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646779 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Gotta keep that ole "Facade of Integrity" shiny, ya know.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:40 | 3648143 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hint:  Merkels' election is around the corner.  This Sept.  Questions?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:33 | 3646737 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Ahhhh..Germany is upset since they had a trademark on the stasi shit

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:34 | 3646738 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

According to Commie leaders, Obummer, Reid, Boxer, Pelosi, Holder and Immelt, we like the Chinese system and their methods, Stasi or not, the Germans can go pound sand.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:27 | 3647325 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

you forgot mr traffic cone himself, boehner

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:33 | 3646740 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

They should demand their gold back in 7 weeks instead of 7 years.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:34 | 3646741 TLT
TLT's picture

Pressure in the bottle just got higher.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:34 | 3646748 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Next, China will demand us to explain political crushing tactics like IRS targeting or Russia will want us to explain why we use gulags when all us ZHers are sent to Camp FEMA. 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:35 | 3646751 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

All a shitshow. Merkel probably loves this shit

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:41 | 3646781 OpTwoMistic
OpTwoMistic's picture

Merkel might want to say some kind words about spying on citizens and who knows for the election in Sep.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:58 | 3646868 reload
reload's picture

I thought she actually had been a full on Stasi agent before the Berlin Wall came down. I know her files (East Germany had them on everybody) went missing while most did not. A lot of outed Stasi agents were hounded in the witch hunt that followed the Fall of the Wall. Seems an odd thing to bring up again, memories of a dark time.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:37 | 3648126 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Studying in Russia was KGB suspected ever since, however,
some would return to Berlin and report there, albeit very few. Ending up somewhere else with flying red colors in the provinces would mean no need for Stasi affiliation. Full KGB clearance would do. Hence no Stasi records worth a fake birth certificate. Compromised all the more.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:40 | 3646752 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

"with ministers demanding the president provide a full explanation when he lands in Berlin next week and one official likening the tactics to those of the East German Stasi."

It would be kind of cool if they streamed it live.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:36 | 3646755 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Any more irony today and my head is going to explode.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:36 | 3646756 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Oh please.....give me a break. This German outrage is being publically declared strictly for home(land) consumption. The German government MUST distance itself from any knowledge or involvement in this dirty little affair in order to maintain its own credibility particularly with national elections just around the corner.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646776 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This circus is getting boring and my bread is getting stale.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:43 | 3646798 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Cute. However this is actually the main act. They've hammered us with so much cheap drama and distraction that we can't tell the difference anymore between that and the real future of the world.

This is the real future of the world. They need to trot it out once in a while so we can start incorporating their distopian nightmare into our daily lives.

A tiny glimpse, behind the curtain.

Now get back to your confusion.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:47 | 3646821 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is the main act?

I demand a refund. Or at least more bread.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 17:35 | 3647882 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

No shit there, if this is it then it's a major f-ckling letdown. I was hoping to see the obarry cards and phones shut off so I could sit back and watch all the fat azzes on TV killing each other for the last twinkie or ho ho.

That would beat Hunger Games hands down.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:41 | 3646789 john39
john39's picture

germans are dreaming if they believe that their government is not every bit as corrupt as the U.S. goverment, including by spying on civilians...  all to protect the evil psychopaths running the show.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:38 | 3647077 machineh
machineh's picture

You'll know the Germans are serious when they finally expel their U.S. military occupiers.

Failing that, they are just PWNed pussies.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:46 | 3646817 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

I agree. Nonetheless, if Obama has a teleprompter reading event in public, the German attendees could give him a good old fashioned NAZI salute.  We could adopt it here as well.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:48 | 3647140 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

 These comparisons are tiresome. Obama isn't fit to have shined Adolf Hitler's shoes.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:38 | 3646757 OpTwoMistic
OpTwoMistic's picture

Stalin would be proud of this thing.

Obama has defended it as a "modest encroachment"

I find Obamma to be an encroachment on my freedom as an American.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:41 | 3646787 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, it's "modest" all right.

Compared to what's coming.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:49 | 3646834 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

Dear Leader is and will be more than a "modest encroachment" before he leaves office.

Forward (over the cliff)!

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:52 | 3647161 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

not to worry, this is only moderate treason.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 17:39 | 3647886 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Modest encroachment then must be the same as "I will only stick it in a little bit?" sans lube of course

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:36 | 3646761 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

New reality show, since Love is gone...Stasi-American Style

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:39 | 3646777 IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

It really is the prior generation of Germans fault (no not really ... we made the deal that they did not). They discovered/hatched the psychopaths who have charted the efforts of the CIA, NSA and other aspects of the US secret governments ever since we imported those people who went out in search of the secrets that would help them defend the West against Communism (that was Hitlers original mandate from his London and NY handlers).

They found a double edged sword, no?

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:41 | 3646791 kengland
kengland's picture

So is ZH now part of the ABC Family?


Copyright ©2009-2013 Media, LTD; All Rights Reserved.


I take it Trav has been "banned" for his FREE SPEECH on other issues?
Review our notice on Racial Discrimination.


ZH is over

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:44 | 3646804 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Something else will come along.

To stay alive, keep moving.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:48 | 3646830 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Do you think its ABC, as in american broadcasting co? Its not

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:07 | 3646832 kengland
kengland's picture

I left out the "LTD" so my apologize to the affiliation. I'm still not sure why ZH has to be "policed."

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:54 | 3646856 denverdolomte
denverdolomte's picture

ABC Media LTD EU based registrant company for online services.  - here is a link explaining all you may want to know about Zerohedge. 


Disney owns the ABC you are thinking of, research their child companies, none are listed under this companies name. As well research ABC Media LTD to find out more about them, then have their own website. 

Just do a 5 minute amount of research before pointing fingers. 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:41 | 3646792 Milestones
Milestones's picture

This is the dawning if the age of Oh Query US. It's getting closer to the start of the start of the real start. Break out the bullets and the beers.    Milestoness 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:43 | 3646801 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Hmmm. the German Constitution is a very interesting document. this document is HIGHLY Federalized...and obviously (in theory) could allow for the existence of a multitude of States (a United States of Europe) until a single legal jurisdiction with MULTIPLE enforcement mechanisms. this does in many ways improve upon a very "Basic" design flaw in the US Constitution (one could argue...and I have) namely "the power of the Judiciary is almost de minimus." in other words "how are these Rights to be enforced"? needless to say that wouldn't be a problem in a United States of Europe since barriers of language alone could be enough to make anyone "seeking injustice" here (via making a mockery of the Law itself) difficult to effect. Interesting play by Chancellor Merkel...but while law is big in Europe...trying to "reign it in" in the USA will be a true challenge indeed.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:17 | 3646973 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Links to Wikipedia, a CIA-Mossad website, support lies and hoaxes that kill innocent people. - Better to take a few seconds to find a more reliable link, than help such criminals.

Even if a Wiki link has some truth at the moment, 5 minutes later it can all be changed to sell CIA, NSA, or Mossad lies.

CIA and Mossad laugh when people link to support their Wiki-propaganda tool for spreading government hoaxes.


The 'trick' of the CIA's Wikipedia is to have 90% of info appear 'neutral', content supplied by 'useful idiots' on topics the CIA finds unimportant -

So that giant enormous lies can be inserted on Wikimedia, whenever the CIA or Mossad want to deceive people, on targeted victims and 'special' topics, like US or Israeli dissidents.

The fraud 'founder' of Wikipedia, Israeli-Mossad and CIA asset Jimmy Wales, is so high up in Mossad, he goes to intimate birthday parties of the President of israel.


Jimmy Wales was originally a pornography pusher, where Wales' willingness to support any sick crime, to help violate children, to lie or help kill innocent people, led him to be the CIA's choice to run the CIA Wikipedia project, and become the biggest internet fraudster in the world.

Google Inc. - also a CIA contractor company, developed with CIA money - Google artificially pushes and pumps CIA partner Wikipedia, to make Wiki a dominant source of CIA and Mossad false information.

Lies on the CIA's Wikipedia are intentionally multiplied over and over, in search results via the CIA's Google, at the top of search results, to crush and erase the truth.

So with only two CIA websites - Google Inc. and Wikipedia - the USA and Israel have achieved massive internet dominance of false information.

Wales and his staff give Wikipedia support to US and Israeli figures involved in the sickest crimes, violating the bodies of children or spreading lies to smear and murder US or Israeli dissidents.

« Wikipedia is hailed by Zionist Israel as "…the major source of information in the world." They even advertise, with standard Zionist chutzpah, that Wikipedia is "…under constant, paid review of Zionist assets." »  - Veterans Today, citing the following article


« Intercepted emails expose Google as an intelligence contractor openly involved in aiding terror organizations throughout Africa, Asia and the world, working well outside any official oversight and authority, far beyond even the CIA’s wildest abuses. »

'Google, Beyond the CIA: Insurgency and Espionage Factory'

'Ex-Agent: CIA Seed Money Helped Launch Google', retired intelligence agent Robert David Steele interviewed by Paul Joseph Watson, and speaking of the CIA's Dr Rick Steinheiser and his connections with Google:

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:32 | 3647354 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

so the sourced document is forged?  is that your accusation?...  fucking hell man, if you are going to discount wikipedia please do not link to veteranstoday or infowars... 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:46 | 3647412 trader1
trader1's picture


i didn't expect that from the bank guy...

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:57 | 3648218 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Psst, CIA, got more fiats for a new biz?  I can be blackmailed, with some effort.

And I got a starship I can sell you.  Serious offers only.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:45 | 3646808 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

You know it is bad when Germany is concerned.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 16:43 | 3647633 samsara
samsara's picture

Nice to  see you posting WFS.... 

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 18:12 | 3648003 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Sometimes it is better to be an observer rather than a poster.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:45 | 3646810 Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

How much international internet traffic goes through the US? If US citizens have essentially no privacy protections for internet traffic, how much do foreign citizens have?

Even traffic that wouldn't normally go through the US could probably be forced to by trojan programs installed on internet routers. The downside is that the Russians, Chinese, and who knows who else could do the same thing.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:46 | 3646815 cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

Since when did "moderate" encroachment make it right?

There are other free nations out there with their own Bill of Rights.  Why should they kow tow to the USA?

After all, we know these spook agencies are checking all their stuff too.

If I were any country, I would be pissed that my citizens are being spied on by a foreign power.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:51 | 3646816 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

The NSA collected 97 billion pieces of data in March 2013.  Only 3 billion pieces were from USA and another 3 billion pieces from Europe.  There is huge potential for economic gain by collecting so much data.  Key competitors of US companies may have been targeted.  If a foreign source was collecting 3 billion pieces of data a month from USA by illicit spying, it would be considered an act of war.

Germany must be worried that some of its politicians can now be blackmailed or if their economic interests have been harmed.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 15:33 | 3647358 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

rumor has it that the nsa has up to a 5sec lead time on most transactions....   don't know if i buy this but this is what is said

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:47 | 3646825 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

US Congress runs for cover or makes mouth noises while the outrage over spying comes from former East Germans...

Go figure.

That's when you know history in America is dead and these thugs make a mockery of our Constitution.



Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:47 | 3646826 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

The stasi were pikers. These fuckers are pure professionals.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:10 | 3646919 Element
Element's picture

Notice they're building walls at th border? ... that's to keep the immigrants in once they all finally realise they made a terrible mistake, they bought at the top.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:41 | 3647097 machineh
machineh's picture

Yep. And once they get that coveted green card, they are U.S. tax slaves for life.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:57 | 3647183 rustymason
rustymason's picture

I and several of my friends, and Ron Paul, IIRC, made the observation that a wall that could keep people out could also keep people in.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:51 | 3646827 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

ah San Francisco, home of the passive aggressive spy coders...and global embezzlers. Fuuny, how their code appears to generate from China, where their products are manufactured...

Jobs: Death by a Thousand Cuts

The passive aggressive majority, through subtle and not-so-subtle peer pressure, behavior replication programming, acts as an extension of gravity. By seeking only to confirm itself, it retards your timing when you pass through its field, Civil Law, which rules out the natural aggressive physical response.

If you look, you will see that the empire rewards the breeding of passive aggressive behavior with debt credit make-work jobs, rewarding the use of credit channels with jobs that produce no economic output, creating a line of lines for you to wait in as its primary defense, and penalizes the aggressive response with jail time. Pick your prison.

The US Family Office has no rival when it comes to misinforming the general population, which abides willingly, and its job, creating artificial demand for all the other failed nation/state systems, through a TBTF ponzi monetary artifice, reflects its best-history-practice of ignorance exploitation. There isn’t a dumber, more expensive education system in the world than that of the United States, but it’s the empire majority’s line in the sand, ensuring future economic slaves to feed the ponzi.

If there is any civilization more guilty of false pride, idolatry, than any other, it’s America. There is nothing more artificial than GDP, replacing parents with a nanny-prison state in a positive feedback loop as a jobs program. Ignorance begets tyranny, belies tyranny, and bemoans tyranny, and, contrary to popular belief, automating the system does not improve quality of life, for anyone.

Economic activity is attempting to solve the same problem as many times as possible, growing the problem with each iteration. From the perspective of the empire, homelessness is the solution. It’s a stick, a cross, ensuring compliance by others watching the sh-show, and the orator implementers get paid more, by future generations, to put on a bigger show with each implementation, war on whatever.

Within the empire, a relative negative interest rate world of artificial business cycles in which the vast majority find themselves inured, skill, especially at adaptation, has nothing to do with advancement. Bank simply increases rates and decreases access to the credit ‘lifeline’ from the bottom up to produce fountain pressure, selling licenses for each pump station to the middle classes.

So, you’re in a contract negotiation from birth, with an empire model that has been ‘perfected’ over thousands of years, sometimes with the same face, sometimes not, more often with a computer intermediary, and you expect not to be bankrupted at some point in the process? For labor, it’s not a negotiation.

Project tax revenue ahead of delayed and hidden costs all you like, an empire is an empire is an empire, is a loss-leader is a loss-leader is a loss-leader, granting bankruptcy preference from the top down. When demographics decelerate and interest rates turn, as they always do, it gets ugly.

Automating empire operation as MAD insurance delayed, but grew the size of reversion reckoning, and there is no empty continent with a wealth of easily exploitable resources available for escape. Africa doesn’t work. Surrender the land or perish.

War, military law, is about killing, efficiently, and right now the empire is losing, badly, and sinking faster all the time. Keep labor in a catch-22 of catch-22s and watch the sh-show, expecting to never be held responsible. Who do you suppose has the most experience fighting a non-linear war?

Ozzie and Harriet was a TV show, hawking environmental exploitation. Parenting is a skill, honed with experience. Self-discipline is the tip of the spear, not some eunuch sitting on the Personnel Board of the US Navy, threatening women with their newly won make-work jobs. Learn to employ your anger, and the anger of others effectively, for propulsion; that is what the empire fears most.

Some kids are born walking uphill and never turn back. Most walk downhill and never turn back, in ignorance, forming tyranny of the majority. The fundamental fact is that the only person you can change is yourself. Others may or may not choose to follow, of their own accord. Competing to lead the herd downhill always ends badly. Gravity isn’t personal; it de-personalizes you, if you accept its assumption.

From the perspective of the empire hydra, reversion produces a quantum release of Davids. The dead-beat-dad scapegoat doesn’t earn traction in the killing zone. How many times have you compromised with the empire in your lifetime? Where are you relative to the dead zone and what are you carrying for trade? What are you a witness / accomplice to? The majority doesn’t expect kindness from a stranger for a reason.

What do you suppose is more effective, throwing your baby in the water to encourage its instinct or allowing the marines to teach your children how to swim? MIT doesn’t train enterprise architects; they are born, in a field of gravity, which is why Bank loses the war every time, with increasingly complex intermediaries to delay the inevitable. Dolphins prefer body surfers. Sharks prefer board surfers.

The Empire grows every time you turn your brain off in public. Your brain has many gears, to set your distance from the public. Neither the majority nor a rebel without a cause be. Life is about regeneration from the bottom up. Gravity operates from the top down. Learn to employ them and you will never suffer for a job, and treasure privacy.


Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:55 | 3646835 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Heil Hitler!
Heil Hitler!
Heil Hitler!
Hail Obama!
Hail Obama!
Hail Obama!

Jail Obama!
Jail Obama!
Jail Obama!

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:50 | 3646836 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Merkel couldn't care less about the usa gestapo tactics.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:59 | 3646876 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

She is up for election this year. She will pretend to be no matter what the truth is.

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 13:58 | 3646866 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

Leno: 'We Wanted A President That Listens To All Americans – Now We Have One'

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 14:45 | 3647119 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!