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Guest Post: Why Things Will Get Worse - Much Worse

Tyler Durden's picture


Originally posted at Monty Pelerin's World blog,

It is easy to be upset about what is happening all around. The economy is being destroyed, deliberately, by insane economic policies. Incentives to work are being eliminated by punishing work. At the same time rewards are increasing for not working. Not surprisingly we get less of what we penalize (work) and more of what we subsidize (non-work).

As an economist I get sick over what I see happening to what was once a great engine of productivity, capital creation and improvements in standards of living.

After two centuries of progress that amazed the world, the conditions necessary for growth and productivity are steadily being removed. Their presence allowed the miracle of America. Their absence guarantees the decline. Carried to extreme, the US could become a second or third-world nation within a few decades. Virtually all changes in the last five to ten years point in this direction and these changes are accelerating.

As pained as the economic retrogression is, the loss of freedom is even more disturbing. It was free markets and free men that made America the dominant economic power and the beacon of freedom. Without freedom, no economic policy can succeed. Yet, just as economic policies seem designed to destroy rather than create, so too does the role of government as steadily destroys freedom with its expanded oppression and power. The absence of freedom is tyranny. The absence of freedom is also poverty.

Economic decline is difficult to convey, although data are useful.

The decline of liberty, however, is not easily quantifiable and even more difficult to communicate. An email from Simon Black, expresses his concern regarding Leviathan government and its increasing oppression. It provides as good a qualitative measure of what is occurring to freedom in this country:

By now it should be clear to anyone paying attention that most of Western civilization is on a dangerous slide into tyranny.


They’re confiscating funds directly from people’s bank accounts. They’re seizing reporters’ personal records and phone logs. They’re digitally spying on everyone’s emails.


They’ve authorized military detention and drone assassination of their own citizens.


They’re using tax offices to harass political opposition groups.


They tell us what we are allowed to eat and drink, what foods we are allowed to put in our own body.


Think about it. These are Soviet tactics, plain and simple.


What’s more, they don’t even care. They think we’re all idiots who are too stupid to even notice what they’re doing.


In fact, just a few days ago, Barack Obama staunchly defended his policies, saying “you can complain about Big Brother. . . but when you actually look at the details, then I think we’ve struck the right balance.” This is textbook sociopathic behavior: destructive, antisocial conduct and a complete lack of conscience.


Unfortunately this is just the beginning.


Imagine what it will look like in a few more years: trillions of dollars of more debt… more printed currency. More police state tactics. More invasions of privacy. More ridiculous regulations.

Unless government oppression is beaten back, there is no hope for the future. For those who focus on the foolish economic policies, they miss the root cause of all of our problems — oversized, overactive, interventionist, overcontrolling and oppressive government. Unless government can be reduced in size and power dramatically and then put back into its Constitutional box, nothing will improve in the economy. Ultimately the economy will collapse and freedom will be lost.

History shows no examples reversing these kinds of trends. Civilizations die as a result and then they rebuild from the ashes. But history never knew the flowering of such a vibrant civilization before our break from King George. It seems as though a similar miracle is required today.

I fear the majority of the American people are too dumbed down to understand what is happening to them and their country. They appear too content collecting whatever benefits the government buys them off with. These benefits will cease when the economy can no longer be pillaged. By then, it will likely be too late.

America will continue to exist and it will eventually be free and prosperous again. But there will be a long period, call it the modern-day  Dark Ages, before freedom and prosperity return. A century or so seems a reasonable guess. Evil will eventually be overcome, but not before generations suffer as a result of our allowing and enabling the growth in government power.


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Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:40 | 3652722 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Carried to extreme, the US could become a second or third-world nation within a few decades.

Within a few decades?? You optimist! Some areas are ALREADY third world... Ever been to Camden, NJ? Detroit, Mi? Slab City, CA? The whole political establishment and police force has as much integrity as a third world country... 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:40 | 3652744 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

He lost me at "I'm an economist"

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:47 | 3652771 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Was comparing notes with an old friend the other day and we both remarked on how much nastier business has become in recent times. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:02 | 3652853 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Have we every really been free? Are simply noticing more because teleweb communications makes surveillance more prolific?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:37 | 3652967 GAAP is crap
GAAP is crap's picture

"Have we every really been free?"


kinda of.  I'll go with this:

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
? Frank Zappa


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:47 | 3652997 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Nothing New Under the Sun,


History is merely repeating itself.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:24 | 3653284 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'But history never knew the flowering of such a vibrant civilization before our break from King George. It seems as though a similar miracle is required today.'

What, you mean like Singapore, Australia and Hong Kong? All ex British colonies built with British capital atop the British civil service.

You didn't make America, the British did. You just voted in a bunch of slavers, smugglers and crooks after the event who didn't even give you all the vote because they said you could keep your guns.

Did you ever think anything good would come of it? Good Constitution, not. What a load of bollocks.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:52 | 3653305 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

screw you and the queen you rode in on.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 04:53 | 3653389 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

touchy fuckers aren't you...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:24 | 3653483 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Stasi vs German Queen



Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:37 | 3653491 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

She kinda 'emigrated' don't you know...

They used to do that a lot, sort of 'cementing alliances' and all that.

Kind of stuff you can't do with a piece of paper... I mean Constitution...

Now that you can shit on... oh wait, they just did...

At least you have something useful nearby you can wipe your arse on eh...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:05 | 3653547 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

When the black pope squashes you like the treasonous bugs you are, I hope you are the first under the boot.

Silver For The People

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:14 | 3653570 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:07 | 3653555 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

U still mad bro?

You could always shoot yourself...

Oh no... you can't.


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:36 | 3653563 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

So, let me see, I may or may not have a Queen (depending on which nationality I might or might not be), but you're better off because you can shoot yourself?

You lucky, lucky bastard, I should be real jealous of that, but I'm not. Buy hey, you just go knock yourself out dude,

Somehow I don't think it will be my loss...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:06 | 3653700 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

...and you spell favor wrong too.

Fuckin Chavs.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:29 | 3653717 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

No I don't.

Fuckin illiterates..

What are you going to dop now, eh, go shoot yourself eh, lucky, lucky you... Why am I conversing with an intellectual mushroom?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:19 | 3653742 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

By "emigrating" and "cementing alliances" are you referring to the practice of European nobility of marrying off their daughters to the heads of other Royal families? A practice which eventually led to rather severe inbreeding.(Habsburg comes to mind)

Clearly this is a superior system to a document designed to protect the inalienable god-given rights of all men. Which was written on parchment BTW, not paper.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:26 | 3653757 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

You mean, like the real one, the Magna Carta?

Or that piece of cheap bog roll you call the Constitution...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:52 | 3653849 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

The Magna Carta was an important document to be sure. However it was only adopted by King James (I think) because it was forced on him by the barons. It was also heavily influenced by a similar french document that preceded it by over 100 years. And if I remember correctly, it only applied to "freemen", not serfs.

The US Constitution was in turn, influenced by and an improvement on, both of these earlier attempts.

But once again, I am left wondering how this tangent supports your positions on any of the earlier points. Perhaps now you will counter with a discussion of the superiority of the English Longbow (which was actually Welsh in origin).

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:11 | 3653882 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

No. but if you're inferring that because the Magna Carta was forced on a king (you think but aren't quite so sure who) that it importance is in some way diminished, or that Constitution that isn't doing quite so well nowadays is better because it is more modern I'm simply going to say that you are talking an awful lot of bollocks.

and no, I have better things to do than banter idle words about bows and arrows...

here. I've pasted the link so you can start learning your history. I already did this a long time ago at school, one of the benefits of being educated you know...

Have to go now so if you want to play again you have an open goal old stick, the other teams buggered off without conceding a point....

knock yerself out.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:34 | 3654020 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

No, I'm inferring that the Magna Carta (while important) was only one step in a series, that it borrows heavily from an earlier french document, and that it is inferior to the Constitution because it applies to "some" men not "all". Granted, it took us 4 score and 7 years to apply it to the slaves which Britain played a large part in enslaving.

Glad you buggered yourself off though. Cheers old bean! stiff upper lip and all that.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 14:11 | 3654733 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

Not ALL men were created equal, as noted in the Constitution... some were less equal, along with women...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:41 | 3653511 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

You might want to read some history you limey twit. There wasnt much British capital spent in America after 1776 (when the vast majority of the US was established). Nor even before 1776 really. The Spanish and the French were more active in "building" colonies. The English mostly viewed the colonies as a place to get rid of undesirables then tax the hell out of their productivity.

There was however a considerable ammount of American capitol spent keeping Hitler out of Buckingham palace.

BTW: you're welcome.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:08 | 3653558 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Run that history by me again will ya, it sounds like you're making it up.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:54 | 3653650 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Which part? The part where most English emmigrants to the Americas were religious and political dissidents who established their colonies with little or no support from the crown and were later taxed by said crown if they became profitable? The English crown did play a more active role in establishing and supporting the colonies in the Caribbean, but as you may or may not know none of them were part of the US until relatively recently.

Or the part where the Spanish and French colonies were more subsidized by their respective crowns from the beginning in a search for raw materials(gold,furs,etc)? The young US later purchased the colonies from said crowns.(not much British capitol there either.)

Or the part where only 13 of the eventual 50 colonies/states had any English involvement at all. (and one of those was bought from the Dutch, not established by England)? The other 37 were purchased from Spain, France, Russia, or established en toto by the American colonist. So where again is all this "British Capitol" of which you speak?

However, in 1940, After Britain's brilliant campains to catch German bullets in Norway and France: A considerable ammount of American capitol including 50 Destroyers, countless merchant transports, thousands of tanks, and many tons of fuel and supplies (called Lend-Lease), along with squadrons of American pilots who joined the RAF, did prevent the German invasion of England (Operation SeaLion).

I can understand if you dont know US or world history, but you should at least learn you own history.

Edit: Dont get me wrong, I am not at all proud of what my country has become in the last 60 years or so. Nor am I one of those annoying Americans who goes around thinking the world forever owes us for the times when we helped someone else. (others have helped us too.) That is just part of being a good friend/neighbor. But your comments were factually wrong and a little too snotty to let go unchallenged.


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:28 | 3653732 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Fuck me. I had no idea that you guys fought in WWII.

Did you eventually turn up?

Say it ain't so...

Well I never knew that. Thanks for that, enlightening for sure...

Nice to see your boys over there though eh, even if you did only pitch up for the after dinner drinks...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:31 | 3653772 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Clearly you have a dizzying intellect...

Your initial premise was that America was built on British capital. So far you have offered nothing to substantiate that claim. Score: 0

I have layed out a basic outline that not only refutes your claim, but demonstrates that Britain has actually benefited substantially from American capital. You have refuted niether point. Score:2

You:0 Me:2

care to play again?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:44 | 3653805 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I don't want to rain on your parade old stick but scoring yourself seems a little gratuitous and more so since you haven't demonstrated much of anything at all, simply made the same old bleating statements I hear time and again from a typical yank trying to justify a revolt against a monarch that set up one of many colonies overseas at British expense and sent a very large and expensive fleet to protect its trade routes so it could become  wealthy by trading with the rest of the world. Australia benefitted from it as did Singapore and Hong Kong, some of the largest and most important financial centers in the world today, as per my original statement above.

Apparently you guys didn't want to pay for it. You have refuted and established nothing. So, red card old stick, you're off...

Next time you want to play, bring a proper ball...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:12 | 3653903 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

True, scoring myself does demonstrate a slight lack of Hubris; but Im Texan(I cant help it). :) Texas BTW was not at all established with British capital.

And true the 13 colonies of New England were "one of many colonies overseas". But they were not set up at great British expense. They were mostly private enterprises. King George only sent his very expensive fleet to to "protect us" from ourselves when the flow of taxes and raw materials was threatened. Hardly magnanimous or humanitarian, more like greedy.

Also true as I mentioned before, some of Britains colonies (Singapore and Hong Kong) did recieve more support than others. But, as you point out, this was more due to the profitability of the trade routes. Australia, as I recall, was a Penal Colony; very noble that.

"Apparently you guys didn't want to pay for it." What? Actually, I think our taxes and raw materials did rather directly pay for Britain's other colonial endeavors. That was kinda the point we got upset and revolted over.

Better attempt than your earlier ones. Keep trying old chap.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 13:57 | 3654677 EINSILVERGUY


You remember that old ditty about not arguing with a fool

Harlequin Romance is all hat and no cattle


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 14:11 | 3654731 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Im not sure that rose to the level of an arguement. But 'round here we tend to call BS when we see it.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:49 | 3654085 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

As for the expensive fleets protecting trade routes:

In the western hemisphere Britain relied heavily on privateers because Britain was unwilling or unable to provide Royal Navy ships. These where independantly owned ships commissioned in the colonies by the crown(at the great expense of a piece of parchment) who fought the enemies of the British crown and surrendered most of the proceeds back to the crown. These proceeds(which were originally French, Spanish, or Dutch) financed Britains colonial efforts. This practice was quite unpopular back in "civilized" Europe as the line between privateer and pirate is kinda blurry depending on whether you gain or lose from the act.

How dare those silly American colonist revolt against such a "noble" British Monarch.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:11 | 3654298 SILVERGEDDON

Yeah - Americans and Canadians showed up for the Spanish civil war, WW1, and WW2.

Amongst other ventures to keep inbred homosexual former Brittania's masters of the universe from getting all fucked up by either the Communists, or the Nazis, or both.

Not that you minded getting buggered, mind. 

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:35 | 3653919 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

As for the slavery point; I think they mostly came on British ships from colonies in Africa to work on plantations in British colonies mostly in the Caribbean.

edit: none of the down arrows are mine. I either up arrow or answer.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:39 | 3654402 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

He's just mad because somebody stole his Burburry cap and he got McD's mustard on his track suit.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:00 | 3653027 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Ah the late great Frank Zappa.  I still remember the "Zappa for President" bumper stickers that started popping up in 1991.  Sadly, he would die only two short years later.  Frank Zappa may have been one of very few people who could have made a real difference as president.  His wonderful performance at the PMRC hearings showed that he was completely unafraid of the dog and pony show that calls itself "Congress".  A loss that still hurts...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:10 | 3653713 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture


Obama has powers that Stalin never even dreamed of...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:43 | 3652761 prains
prains's picture

An email from Simon Black


nuf said

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:19 | 3653193 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

In this case he was spot on.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 04:36 | 3653381 Davalicious
Davalicious's picture

Yes, but he/she is generally a dick.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:49 | 3652793 Midasking
Midasking's picture

The whole thing could be third world in a matter of weeks..

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:08 | 3653045 decon
decon's picture

Fuck you and your link

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:53 | 3653154 Vooter
Vooter's picture

I didn't make it all the way down the Salton Sea to Slab City, but I have been to Bombay Beach...just as nice!

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:10 | 3653178 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

I've been to Camden, because I thought I would run outta gas before the Schuykill.  Pictured myself in a Juvenile video.


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:11 | 3653179 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Or a COPS episode.  It's really the worst place I've ever been to in my life.  (never been to MI)

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:51 | 3653522 OpTwoMistic
OpTwoMistic's picture

There will be pockets of enlightenment and peace.  Anywhere there are armed citizens and patrols.  The rest, not so good.

When the food stamps stop, load up.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:38 | 3652727 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***America will continue to exist and it will eventually be free and prosperous again.***

I hope this is true, but I have to say in all honesty, I have serious doubts.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:50 | 3652798 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

I don't believe it's government per se - I believe it's corporations that have bought govt across the board and dictate policy to govt - the Bigs - big jumbo insolvent CRIMINAL banks, Big oil, Big arms merchants/intelligence technology, Big healthcare, Big sock puppet media - they own both political crime syndicates lock stock and barrel... unless we get corporate amerika 100% out of government we are all well and truly fucked.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:59 | 3652834 Unknown Poster
Unknown Poster's picture

I don't think politicians are for sale, you can only rent them.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:00 | 3652839 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Absolutely true. There is no better example that Booz Allan and the NSA. Executives hopping back and for between the two providing lucrative contracts and an endless flow of government money. True Fascism at work.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:09 | 3652881 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

lobbyists quit their lobbying job and go to work for congressmen and write the fucking bills that get passed on the floor, then go back to their former company

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:16 | 3652906 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Right. All those evil, destructive governments of the past several thousand years were caused by corporations.

It's government, and government alone, that attracts the worst psychopaths, the lowest forms of human life, and gives them the tools they desire.

Governments used to rely on religion and the army for control, now it relies on corporations and the army.











Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:52 | 3653009 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Disagree.  In this case, America is somewhat unique.  We had a government of/for/by the people.  It is the people who have let it go.  Alex De Tocquoville found during his time that even the most outlying woodsman could read and discuss politics.  Today the most educated city dweller probably doesn't even know who their senators are.

It is we the people who have failed.  Everything else springs from our failure.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:28 | 3653100 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

People want government.

But in no way does that stop government from being evil, and the people from being wrong.

And that sixty odd year old 'government of/for/by the people' managed to kill about 750,000 of those of/for/by people.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:54 | 3653139 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Well, technically it was never by/for/of the people, but I admit it was a pretty good attempt, one of the best the world has seen.

But it's pretty hard to keep it going when the roots are corrupt, when predators are stalking the shadows and whispering hypnotic songs, wolves in sheep's clothing lulling the people to sleep...

Grand-parent is right when he says that psychopaths have always used government for their ends. Or more specifically, hierarchies of any type. Quickly rising ranks, such sociopathic agents infect institutions, which then become pathological vectors in society. See Political Ponerology by Andrzej Lobaczewski, a must read on the topic.

Also an interesting article on non-consensual hierarchies here:

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:55 | 3653158 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Pretty much so.

Psychopaths and governments are mutualistic because the alpha-males in the social hierarchy were nothing but psychopathic.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 11:58 | 3654269 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Ponerology!   A definite must-read.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:06 | 3654283 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

from the link, Lobaczewski speaking of his "compatriot" ZBig:

he strangled the matter, treacherously.

quite the phrase

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:51 | 3653530 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

It was a very good effort. The founding fathers realized that govt, all govt, is inherantly destructive. So they constructed a cage to restrain and hold the smallest govt they thought necessary. It worked for about a century, then it found a way out.It has spent the last century entwining itself into and corrupting all it sees. It is like cancer. If the founding fathers were alive today, they would be suprised it lasted this long. And disappointed in us that we hadnt already killed it and started over.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:21 | 3653585 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

The ink wasn't even dry on the Declaration before there were contractors lining up to sell overpiced shoes and spoiled meat to the Continental Army.

These guys were well aware of how Govt. operates and they did their best to limit it's cancerous effect.

Something about refreshing trees and whatnot...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:55 | 3653018 forexskin
forexskin's picture

politics - show business for the *ugly* - ugly inside and out.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 03:06 | 3653310 beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

Corporations are creations of government  ... without State' force, they cannot exist.


IMO, taxation is at the very root of evil;  taking what you desire, by force.  Without taxation, Government cannot exist.


See "Eighth Commandment" for details.   If there is a God, then he surely did not intend for us to be governed by men, else he wouldn't have made those explicit rules.



Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:23 | 3653593 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Your tinfoil is on too tight.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:48 | 3653658 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

BREAKING: All "Government" a huge corporation......with a flag, army, and bombs.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:26 | 3652928 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Rubbish.  The problem is government, big, small or otherwise...

Does Walmart have guns?  Does Booz Allen patrol the streets with legions of Brownshirts?  Has any corporation ORDERED you to pay up under threat of having your property stolen, your being jailed or even murdered?

GOVERNMENT has the guns, the responsibility and the power to change the rules overnight if they wished. 

Not the corporations, although many are on the take.  Yet the naive public saps still look up to "their" governments and trust them...perhaps it has something to do with dumbing down and entitlements...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:07 | 3653039 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

No you are wrong one cannot exist without the other.  Would Wal-Mart exist as it does without its abuse of eminent domain and ability to game the systems to extract cheaper prices from suppliers than others can get?  Would Booz(e) Allen even exist without cushy government contracts?  You need to cut out this delusion that somehow corporate American (the large scale variety) exists in any semblance of a "free market".  They are merely an "outsourcing" of government to even more control of people's lives.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:02 | 3653170 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

I would have said it the other way around, but is is functionally the same, hence Mussolini's definition of fascism as the merger of state and corporate powers.
In a semblance of a free market, it is way more efficient for corporations to encourange the pre-existing monopoly of coercive power (definition of government) and to outsource their enforcement needs to it. Having a sole arbiter stabilizes the rules of the game...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:10 | 3654288 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

...especially when the referee and rulemaker have a vested interest in the outcome...

and most especially when the referee and the rulemaker are one and the same entity.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:29 | 3654364 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

I would take it even further and say that we are seeing the RE-merger of state & corporate powers.

The Crown birthed corporate powers with the East India Co. and now those corporate powers are coming back home.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 17:31 | 3655817 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Thanks. Had not seen it that way, but it is indeed that simple. Good ol' feudalism, with a veneer of modernity. Corpo-feudalism. Soubds right.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:24 | 3653482 TimmyM
TimmyM's picture

Obviously you don't know much about the history of the labor movement. Nor have you worked in a coal mine or an oil rig. You never heard of industrial pollution or faulty products or bad drugs. You've never been foreclosed on by mistake and evicted.
There are lots of ways corporations kill people every day. Yet, legally they have the rights of people without the personal liability. Who enforces those rights and protects those exemptions?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:28 | 3653601 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Corporations bought those rights fair and square.

It's the vendor who sucks. They can't buy em if they're not for sale...

This isn't hard.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:37 | 3653792 noless
noless's picture

Are you actually trying to argue that the united states government efficiently dispenses justice in the matters which you state?

Which would be better, an independent arbiter reasoning based on constitutional law and sane truthful definitions, or a government who legally Shields agencies like monsanto from any and all prosecution?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:25 | 3653487 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Yeah, as others have said and you yourself have said.... It's the high powered lobbies.

Our tax codes are used as weapons.... forget that flat tax... it makes too much money the way it is now for congress.

I believe that our downward spiral really was set in stone about the time Woodrow Wilson was in office.... He managed to allow lobbies into D.C.... while setting up the federal reserve....  the 1, 2 death blow to our free market.  Did we even have federal taxes before that asshole?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:38 | 3652728 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Time is ripe for a french revolution II .

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:42 | 3652760 dcohen
dcohen's picture

Only Kim Kardashian can lead a revolution in the US, she is the only one that has the attention of 99 % of the American people.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:50 | 3652797 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Only 100,000 people brought Communism in china in the 40's. that was 0.0001 % of the population

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:51 | 3652806 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I guess I'm a one percenter after all.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:09 | 3652880 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

Great. Maybe we can all ride into Washington on that huge ass of hers.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:39 | 3652974 jmk
jmk's picture

Got an ass on her like a $10 mule

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:44 | 3652768 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

A French Revolution on American soil............this might just be crazy enough to work........

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:46 | 3652779 prains
prains's picture

as long as you call it Freedom Fries

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:57 | 3652824 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

A French revolution? Is that where you throw down your guns and surrender before the war even starts?  I'll have to ask my buddy Malone LaBay about that.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:04 | 3652860 Hail Spode
Hail Spode's picture

The French get a bum rap in war.  Most of their wars were with Germany and England, so they are in a tough conference.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:33 | 3652951 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

True, but they don't mind firing into a crowd of civilians in Cote d'Ivoire now and then.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:08 | 3653047 g'kar
g'kar's picture

Until the last decade or so, I was glad the French stepped in back in the 1700's to bail us out against King George. Now it looks like it was a waste of time.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:03 | 3652842 booboo
booboo's picture

You may have a different opinion on the French Revolution if you take some time and study what came out the other end of that snake. Robespeirre's cleansing of different thought was nasty and brutal, Obama probably sports wood just thinking about it. How about just settling for a second American Revolution

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:45 | 3653516 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Seems like everywhwere I look lately I see people saying revolution.  I'm not against the idea, per se but, with all that's going on in our capital at the moment, 7/10ths of the population couldn't even tell you what the NSA stands for.

We are truly the fringe and are seen by folks as such. 

I truly believe that the only way we can right this country would be to have a popular movement with true public support.  The only hope for that would be to rally the country behind a cause...  there will have to be some event to light the spark.   It may be when finally it's so obvious to any thinking individual that our government is so corrupt that it can't ever be fixed.

Since we are fringe and actually watch what is happening and take in alternate sources of news, we already see this.  Lots of folks are waking up to the truth but, I don't think we have that spark that would bring in enough honest politicians to make a difference.

Sure... many of us have wet dreams of Feinstein getting blown to shit after someone mutters, "Say Hello to my lil friend!!!" as she gets reduced to a stain on the walls LOL but, I'm afraid that will just not happen.

Of course, if the whole market implodes, who knows what will happen... there may be 500+ stains all over D.C. if that happens.  LOL  The only thing I know for sure is it will be interesting to see unfold.  I don't want it to but, I don't think it will matter much what I think.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:23 | 3653752 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture




7/10ths of the population couldn't even tell you what the NSA stands for...

Of course they do. No Such Agency. Old 60s joke.

Carry on.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:48 | 3654078 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Contact your Senators, next week the National I D Card is coming up for a vote.For YEARS we have millions of illegals, and people who have failed to renew work/residency status(Green Cards), that just dissapear. But that's OK, NOW they want a BioMetrics data card on all of US.Hell no,send them an email,call or both.Enough is enough.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:41 | 3652743 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Look behind the curtain. Say, and answer that three to five times before forming a conclusion....

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:45 | 3652751 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

There was an article in the local paper about how some ex-judge's kid served less than 8 months for repeat heroin convictions  that should have gotten him 30 years and the same judge that handed out that weak sentencing gave some guy 21 months in prison for driving with a suspended license. These fucks in power are beyond the point of giving a shit about anyone but them and their governmental buddies.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:55 | 3652819 inevitablecollapse
inevitablecollapse's picture

what is this 'paper' you speak of?  

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:03 | 3652857 Talleyrand
Talleyrand's picture

Why would the judges - at all levels - be any less corupt than the rest of the political class?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:42 | 3652752 Errol
Errol's picture

Pelerin wrote:

"But there will be a long period, call it the modern-day  Dark Ages, before freedom and prosperity return. A century or so seems a reasonable guess."

He's quite the optimist; when Rome failed the resulting depression lasted about one thousand years.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:42 | 3652754 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Feudalism will arise during the new dark ages. Wars will take place inside abandoned sports arenas. Gasoline will be worth gold. Start shaving your head

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:56 | 3652817 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Why shave my head?  So it can be more easily barcoded? 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:07 | 3652870 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

No need for barcode. Microchiped after lobotomized

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:01 | 3653028 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Keeps down the lice.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:36 | 3653122 g'kar
g'kar's picture

And don't forget the shoulder pads

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:42 | 3652758 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

This is an insane load of gibberish.  Who is this clown Monty Pelerin?

"It was free markets and free men that made America the dominant economic power and the beacon of freedom. Without freedom, no economic policy can succeed."

American corporations are freer than ever: free to send most of their work offshore to third world hell-holes while skilled workers in the US are forced to live on food stamps;  free to import cheap labor from overseas on H1B visas to help drive down the wages of those locals who still have work;  free to shelter their record-profits in offshore tax havens.

Pelerin is a shill.  In his world those forced to live on food stamps have got it too damn easy - let them eat wallpaper.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:51 | 3652796 CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding's picture

Silly me, I thought it said Monthy Python. I was hoping to see Terry Gilliam's masterpiece, Conrad Pooh and his dancing teeth

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:58 | 3652829 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I think you are missing the point; no government intervention means no FED.

It would also mean no TBTF bailouts for banks or corporations.

It would mean enforcing immigration laws.

It would mean arresting Jon Corzine.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:06 | 3652868 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Monty Pelerin is a pseudonym derived from The Mont Pelerin Society.
The Mont Pelerin Society is an international organization composed of philosophers, historians, intellectuals, business leaders, and others who favour classical liberalism. Its founders included Friedrich Hayek, Karl Popper, Ludwig von Mises, George Stigler, and Milton Friedman. The society advocates freedom of expression, free market economic policies, and the political values of an open society.

The group does not aspire to conduct propaganda. It seeks to establish no meticulous and hampering orthodoxy. It aligns itself with no particular party. Its object is solely, by facilitating the exchange of views among minds inspired by certain ideals and broad conceptions held in common, to contribute to the preservation and improvement of the free society.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:44 | 3653138 prains
prains's picture

so why does the article site the international man of mistory Simon Noir ? He represents nothing of which you speak??

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:10 | 3652885 booboo
booboo's picture

Large Corporations could not exist without their willing partners in crime, Government; but I bet your top solution to any problem is to get the government more involved. Yes, just like stimulus, or heroin, one more push should do it. More government solutions are NOT the solution they are the cause. The strict rule of law would by it's very nature disolve the bands of government.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:00 | 3653026 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

We have more rules, regulations, laws, and tax codes than ever in our history.  They are all bent toward giving the big corporations an advantage.  This is not freedom.  It is a form of cronyism/fascism.

Freedom would be limited government with rules, regulations, laws and tax codes that would be small and simple enough for all to understand and follow without any undue expense or effort.  This would allow the little guy to compete with the big guy.

Today the big guy wins because he is the only one that can afford the armies of lawyers and accountants necessary to work the system to his benefit.  On top of that he is the one who can afford lobbyists to get the laws written in an advantageous way for both his business and his customers.

Words matter.  Please don't abuse "freedom".  Our government is doing that enough already.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:42 | 3652759 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

America will continue to exist and it will eventually be free and prosperous again.


What are you basing this grand assumption on.........??

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:45 | 3652772 prains
prains's picture

I think he's fully vested in Hammer Pants making a come back and their popularity will take GDP to the mooooooon!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:03 | 3652858 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I have to admit that caught me off guard.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:47 | 3652999 prains
prains's picture

the hammer pants or the caged squirrel inside them? man that was a bad look

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:48 | 3652783 cloudybrain
cloudybrain's picture

thats part of economic cycle

recovery, boom, peak, recession, bust and then recovey again

so no need to worry about, thats a normal cycle

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:35 | 3652826 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

In other  words the author believes that this time it's (ultimately) not different. I disagree.........

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:22 | 3653480 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

ceteris paribus (and the geography isn't)

The list of dominant States/Societies that have risen from the ashes of their collapse to achieve the status of even a leading State within a hundred years is rather limited.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:43 | 3652765 MythicalFish
MythicalFish's picture

Holy bat mitzvah, ES futures down 6 pts someone launch QE5 NOW!!! ;-)

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:45 | 3652773 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I look around me and I see third world signs everywhere, whether its the crumbling infrastructure or the families digging through dumpsters. When the Roman Empire collapsed the effects were felt around the world. My fear is that with the destructive power of the U.S. empire when we collapse we destroy the world.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:48 | 3652785 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Rome didn't have a bunch of decrepit old nuclear plants next to large bodies of cooling water dotting the countryside either.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:56 | 3652822 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

thats my biggest worry

someone needs to invent a method of taking care of those fucking things for thousands of years

and just who will do that during a collapse?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:03 | 3652855 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

If a nuclear meltdown occurs and the MSM refuses to report on it does it still wreck the environment??

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:22 | 3652919 booboo
booboo's picture

Stuff stays hot for years, we can hover around them in the winter to keep warm like the caribou in Alaska, if fact they birth their young there so we could have birthing camps around Thre Mile Island, sing songs, roast marshmellows and poop out "yutes". Apocalyptic bliss..........OH MY GOD THAT CHICK ON THE SIDE BAR AD HAS HUGE PUPPIES.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:31 | 3652945 kito
kito's picture

Keep your eye on the ball booboo...keep abreast of the important issues.......

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:33 | 3654381 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Sounds like the sequel to Planet of the Apes

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:53 | 3653153 yepyep
yepyep's picture

I can assure you than many Australians who understand whats going on have the same fears.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:46 | 3652781 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Charlie Brown's fucking teacher anymore.

Let's watch the chips fall where they may.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:00 | 3652841 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture


Chips you say ?

Got lotsa chips -

Some to eat, some to gamble with, and some near the base of that ES tree ...

Timbeeeerrrrrrrrr !

The trees will fall where they may.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:22 | 3653085 2discern
2discern's picture

when the tree fell, did it make a sound ? that is the question...or were you there to hear it and see it?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:49 | 3652790 hamstercheese
hamstercheese's picture


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:49 | 3652792 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I sure hope this post is wrong. That is scary.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:44 | 3653136 Vooter
Vooter's picture

It's not wrong.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:53 | 3652811 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Good lord.  If Pollyanna was a ZHer, she'd slash her wrists. 

Perspective people, perspective.  Take up a useful hobby.  I suggest beekeeping.  Tailor made hobby for pessimists.  And the bees are some of the most happy critters on the planet.  If it doesn't involve nectar, pollen, or defending the hive...bees really don't give a shit.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:00 | 3652844 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

colony collapse disorder


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:40 | 3653631 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Gotta be easier than raising honey badgers.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 13:27 | 3654584 SILVERGEDDON

Honey badger is a great pet - honey badger doesn't give a fuck about anything or anybody.

Honey badger would just as soon eat your head off and shit down the hole as look at you.

Honey badger comes in three flavors - Democrat, Republican, and Corporate.

Honey badger is the original " Fuck you, asshole ! " of the animal kingdom. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:55 | 3652815 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:58 | 3652831 worbsid
worbsid's picture

Resources are picked first from the low hanging fruit.  Oil only a few feet below the surface started this era. Iron ore was at the surface. Great pools of water were a few feet down throughtout the Ogallala Aquifer plains.  When the bust happens and we have more or less bottomed out, oil is now several thousand feet down if one can find it at all. Iron ore is deep and no bulldozers. Water is scarce and the droughts continue. Without power, radioactivity will stream from a hundred or more abandoned power plants.  There is a great possibility that we are headed into a great salvage era and after things are salvaged, there won't be much or many left.  There's your hundred year forcast. Another Carrington Event will cut that down to three or four days.  Dream on Monty. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:08 | 3652875 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Water is scarce? not here in the midwest- pounded with it tonite and as of now it is the wettest year on record ever- must be global warming.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:33 | 3652952 worbsid
worbsid's picture

Read about Ogallala here:

It doesn't recharge just cause it is raining, if anything the runoff will carry the topsoil down river.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:47 | 3653145 prains
prains's picture

and with it all the GMO pollutants that come with the soil

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:11 | 3652887 Kelly
Kelly's picture

Le'ts break out the booze and have a ball, if that's all there is.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:37 | 3652966 worbsid
worbsid's picture

I think Peggy was singing about small peters.  I'm 80 but my grandson may have a bitch of a time if he can't use his iPhone.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:51 | 3653007 Kelly
Kelly's picture

I read a great book called Cadillac Desert some years ago..Ogallala aquifer being essentially mined does indeed symbolize how unsustainable our present path is.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:43 | 3653133 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Best book ever written about the use and abuse of water in the western United States...and written in '86, no less!

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:32 | 3653775 Village-idiot
Village-idiot's picture

The Elites will get what they want; a world population reduced to around 500 million organized along communist lines.

It's doubtful it'll stay that way, humans being the way they are.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:01 | 3652843 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces"

A mad man's crazed words. The empire will be no different as it destroys itself, and quite possibly the world, in the pursuit of greed.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:02 | 3652851 Kelly
Kelly's picture

This is just a comment.

<-----Please click the red arrow and give my life meaning.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:06 | 3652864 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"...What’s more, they don’t even care. They think we’re all idiots who are too stupid to even notice what they’re doing..."

surely you don't think that they are mistaken do you?? the same wall street nazis who installed adolf hitler in power are the same wall street nazis destroying america....

you complain about barry defending his nazism - you complain foolishly....he is an indonesian citizen and citizen of the world who is not subject to usa law....not only that, he holds you stupid fucks in the highest contempt....america is going down the toilet and there is not a snow ball's prayer in hell of reversing course...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 05:18 | 3653405 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture


They know we know. That's why the security state is what it is.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:07 | 3652872 Future Jim
Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:48 | 3653146 prains
prains's picture

already done; USofNSA

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