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IBM Or Amazon: Whom Will The CIA Choose?

Tyler Durden's picture


Over the weekend we pointed out one of the more disturbing facets of the Snowden espionage affair: the covert, if massive (and very lucrative) symbiosis between private companies, who have explicitly opened up all private client data contrary to privacy disclosures, and a secretly uber-inquisitive government. We asked: "The reality is that while the NSA, which is a public entity through and through, is allowed and expected to do whatever its superiors tell it (i.e., the White House), how does one justify the complete betrayal of their customers by private corporations such as Verizon and AT&T? This may be the most insidious and toxic symbiosis between the public and private sector in the recent past." But while the quid was finally made public (if known by many long ago), the quo wasn't quite clear. It now is - the answer, as as always, is money. And not just any money, but in this specific case taxpayer money paid to either Google or Amazon by none other than the Central Intelligence Agency, or CIA for short. Lots of it.

WSJ closes the full circle on the private information-for-taxpayer cash circle:

The battle between International Business Machines Corp. IBM and Inc. over a $600 million contract to set up a cloud-computing system for the Central Intelligence Agency shows the growing importance of intelligence-agency business for technology companies.

It also shows in whose pocket US corporations truly are, and why when Uncle Big Brother says jump (and hand me over all the data), the IBMs and Amazons of the world are delighted to ask how high.

The background story is well known: "The competition comes amid extraordinary disclosures of secret government-surveillance programs and shows that even in the rarified world of intelligence agencies, companies selling Internet-based cloud-computing services—like Amazon—are challenging the position of traditional technology vendors."

There are many companies suckling on contracts paid for by the government's taxpayer dollar:

Which is why everyone else wants in on a piece of the pie. Like Amazon.

"The federal government opportunity is enormous," said Adam Selipsky, a vice president at Amazon Web Services, the company's cloud-computing unit. "We believe that will be a very significant business for Amazon Web Services going forward."

Significant enough to hand over all related and unrelated "cloudy" data to the client on asap basis? And if not now, maybe tomorrow - after all there is much more deficit spending in the future of the US.

The Defense Department, which manages many of the nation's intelligence assets, including the National Security Agency, spent about $35 billion on information technology in the fiscal year that ended last September, down from the 2010 peak of roughly $38 billion, according to research firm IDC Government Insights.


The rise of cloud computing—where users share space on hundreds or thousands of Internet-connected servers—has created an opening for less traditional vendors.


The CIA surprised IBM earlier this year when it picked Amazon to build a cloud-computing service that would connect the broader intelligence community. The contract could be worth as much as an estimated $600 million over its initial four-year term. A win for Amazon could help unlock doors with other security-sensitive government agencies and commercial clients like Wall Street banks—big, profitable sectors that have long been IBM's turf.


IBM protested the award, and the Government Accountability Office recommended last week that the CIA reopen negotiations. The agency has 60 days to say whether it will follow the GAO's recommendation. "At this time the agency is reviewing details of the GAO decision," a CIA spokesman said.


A spokesman for IBM said the company anticipates the reopening of the contract proposal process. A spokeswoman for Amazon Web Services said it looks forward to a fast resolution of the issues

Amazon may not be profitable, but it sure loves letting the government use its cloud:

In May, Amazon Web Services announced its U.S. businesses received security authorization from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to provide some cloud-computing services. The key stamp of approval could help bring more government business to the Amazon unit, which already works with 300 U.S. government agencies including the Treasury Department, Mr. Selipsky said.


IBM is a technology supplier to the intelligence agencies. It sometimes installs software for free, with the benefit being that it gets to test new technology and keep the intellectual property, a person familiar with the matter said. Over the last two years, the NSA and the CIA have been testing parts of Watson, IBM's Jeopardy-playing artificial-intelligence system, the person said.


The New York Times reported the intelligence agencies' testing of Watson earlier.

Who would have thought that indirectly spying on one clients, and not to mention citizens, would become one of the most lucrative revenue streams?

To the CIA we all the best of luck in picking the lucky winner. We also hope the compensation in terms of pieces of silver is 30 with at least eight zeroes behind it, or sufficiently high to allow the CEOs to sleep peacefully at night, under the NSA-super. As for everyone else using "the cloud", be careful when it mutates from Cloud "Nine" to "NSA."


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Wed, 06/12/2013 - 22:59 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I believe there are rules prohibiting the government from replicating anything already available from private contractors. Therein lies the business model.

Jeffrey Bezos: I don't know what Bilderberg is...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:24 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Everybody keeps talking about these Build-a-Burger people. Are the the "have it your way" people? Do they run a food shop that operates like a Build-a-Bear workshop?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:01 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Build-an-empire workshop. Featuring Crony the Crow.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:50 | Link to Comment illyia
illyia's picture

We are all data points on someone else's revenue stream...

(Keep working, drone...)

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:59 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

What would the Facebook IPO have looked like if they could have openly claimed .GOV kickbacks as part of their revenue stream?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 03:35 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

This article is actually a bit misleading.

Amazon has operated a US federal govt. "region" in AWS for a couple of years.  It's essentially a separate large datacenter for miscellaneous federal customers who are not willing to put their stuff in AWS public data centers.  The CIA private cloud is a smaller version of the same thing -- the CIA would never put its computing actrivities in Amazon's public cloud, so Amazon agreed to build them an exclusive, highly secured data center.

Providing private clouds to the government does not in itself give the government access to data on Amazon's public cloud.  (Of course, the NSA probaby has all the access they want, which is a completely unrelated matter, and it would be true even if the government did not hire Amazon to build private clouds.)  The sensitivity is rather the opposite -- the government worries that using public clouds would expose its data to hacking, so they demand exclusive infrastructure sealed off from the public.

Yes, you could suspect that Amazon would play nice with the feds and give up its customers' data willingly when it is simultaneously seeking billion-dollar contracts with the security state.  And yes, AWS has suffered a bit of a reputation in the past for being a place where some bad guys buy computing power to do bad things.  In webmaster circles, there is a whole sub-culture devoted to tracking AWS IP addresses so they can be blocked from one's servers, on the assumption that anything coming from AWS is likely to be harmful.  AWS users have undoubtedly been of great interest to the feds for a long time, and will remain so.  It's probably true of any public cloud.  So don't expect any privacy from .gov in a public cloud, whether or not the owner does contracts for the feds.  Government access to everything in public cloud computing services was probably an important goal of CISPA.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 10:25 | Link to Comment imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Instead of them having access to all public data, the public should have access to all spook data. Criminal activity around the planet would diminish rapidly.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The Nazi's chose IBM to track down the firearms and the Jews.

I'd guess IBM if recent events are any clue.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:45 | Link to Comment BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture




Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:01 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

The number code tattoos on Jews arms?
That was Big Blue! Maybe they brought that up in the GAO protest.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 04:18 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Do you even know what you're talking about, or just having fun in creative writing?

IBM provided the computing (database & info filtering), but it was the Nazis who engraved the plain, legible numbers (not codes) on the Right Forearm.

Do you even know how many digits these numbers had? Without googling for this?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:36 | Link to Comment Janice
Janice's picture


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 11:12 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture


When I was a child, I saw the some forearms of Auschwitz survivors, who where there 1941-45.

If you want to do a bit of research, try these little-know sites:  (List of death certificates, last names starting with A)

If you like, you can copy/paste the data into Excel, convert text to columns, and then sort by town or religion.  Interesting stats.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment fallout11
Thu, 06/13/2013 - 06:31 | Link to Comment Roandavid
Roandavid's picture

Where Amazon employs subtle principles of negative selling in an effort to undermine IBM's efforts.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 11:20 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Amazing book.  Read about half of it, years ago, before I succumbed to the mountain of info and data.  Amazing research.  Must have had a small army helping the author (Edwin Black).  But some interesting 'takeaways' on corporate games of profit.  Prescott Bush (father of GHW Bush and grandfather of GW Bush) wasn't exactly a saint, as history and records show.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:45 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Well, you'd figure so......but this time its the Jews who are running the monetary circus, and they *might* have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to IBM lol 

Amazon has been a good corporate partner of the United States.  And by good corporate partner, I mean, been a consisent warden of the consumptiontration camp that is the United States Economy.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

While in Kommiefornia...

A growing number of key California cities are a lot worse off than previously thought, thanks to new changes coming in the way state and local governments must account for their pension costs.

The pension changes from Moody’s, and separately the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, scheduled for this month, could result in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, Azusa and Inglewood joining fiscally troubled Stockton and San Bernardino, among others, as severe credit risks. It's all largely due to soaring employee retirement costs, according to new analysis based on the methodology by Bob Williams and his team at State Budget Solution (SBS), a non-partisan organization that studies state budget crises.

The new rules could nearly double California’s unfunded liabilities to $328.6 billion. Moreover, California cities that have already filed for bankruptcy protection, like Stockton and Vallejo, will fall deeper into the red.

Officials in these California cities did not return calls for comment.

Government retiree costs to date have been improperly underreported nationwide to taxpayers, says Moody’s. New government rules in effect at the end of this month from the Governmental Accounting Standards Board seek to fix this problem, which could show California is worse off than expected. A growing number of Senators also now warn these pension costs could result in a taxpayer bailout of the states.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

just wait until the local "law enforcement" gets the greedy mitts on PRISM.

will boost those revenues right up...w/ enough to stick a greasy few in those back pockets.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Ain't that nice? The rest of America will be forced to bail out the commies in California... Just like the EU is forced to bail out Greece or Spain or Portugal...  at least in the EU they acted like those countries would have to do something in exchange for money... but you betcha the bailout of commiefornia will be done without any restrictions.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:33 | Link to Comment g'kar
g'kar's picture

That's probably part of the deal for taking in some of those 70,000 Syrian "refugees".

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:51 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

High earners I hear.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:04 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Oh goodie.
Do they get to bring their MANPADS with them?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:01 | Link to Comment straightershooter
straightershooter's picture

simple solution: just don't use it.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

The government?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:01 | Link to Comment pitz
pitz's picture

Now we know why these companies are propped up by the 'market' with sky-high P/E's (with no relationship to their actual economic productivity or growth rates).  As well as virtually unlimited H-1B visas (despite resume queues that receive literally millions of resumes from qualified software engineers).  They've essentially been crowned TBTF's by the US gov't. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:03 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Open the pod bay doors HAL.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:04 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Amongst the scary things out there is what AMZN kindle and I'm guessing other e-books out there are gathering...

old article:


"Your E-Book Is Reading You

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:05 | Link to Comment Duc888
Duc888's picture

"The reality is that while the NSA, which is a public entity through and through, is allowed and expected to do whatever its superiors tell it (i.e., the White House)...."


You have that backwards... 


Administrations come and go.  The real power brokers don't.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:16 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Yep. The White House is a puppet. Anyone who doesn't know that isn't worth reading.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:09 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture


Look at who comes and goes every 2-6 years,

Look at those who stay in positionis of power.   Benny,  Timmy, Summers  et al

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:06 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Textbook fascism.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:24 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Yes, and it is well past the time that I need to stop using the internet altogether. It's just too creepy these days. See y'all at the halliburton death camps.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Nassim
Nassim's picture

If you seriously wish to protest, start using other search engines, book retailers and so on. Try

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:06 | Link to Comment Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture



And how do we know IXQUICK isn't a CIA/NSA/Chinese Government/Google front ?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:09 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Henrique just asked me this on Max Keiser's site:


Here’s a serious question: if the government is downloading stuff you wrote, isn’t that intellectual property theft? Thus, if you can prove that the government intercepted (that is, downloaded) an email you sent, couldn’t you sue them for piracy?

Might be an interesting path to go down – civil suits alleging copyright infringement.

I also wanted to ask this question over at Zero Hedge, but I don’t have access to the Comments section. If someone who does have access would like to do so, please do so.

Read more at #003399;"> 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:14 | Link to Comment nobodyimportant
nobodyimportant's picture

Let me tell you -- if the government does it then it is legal -- remember - they own the courts - they get the verdicts they want regardless of what written law is.  Been there and know how it works.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:24 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Theoretically, this kind of action does not have to be brought exclusively in the US. It could be brought in the EU for example. It could be set up as a civil claim by Kim Dot Com as another example.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:30 | Link to Comment nobodyimportant
nobodyimportant's picture

Yeah well go for it.  I beat my head against the wall for a few years too.  No regrets but got my ass kicked every time in court because the government out lies you.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:21 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Nothing personal, they have deeper pockets. Much deeper.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:11 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

There's a reason why litigation is the sport of Kings

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:41 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

In general:

criminal law = indigent treadmill/spectacle for small fish; and

civil law = the resolution of rich people problems.

There are a lot of people who fall in-between and are largely eliminated from the court system...  I suspect that this unserved mass will decrease over time as the plethora of lawyers gets more and more desperate for clients, but it could also be that small claims courts are expanded accordingly (and jurisdictional maximums are increased) and we let pro se litigants duke it out more in a "bouncy castle" type court.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:27 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The Tyranny for Dummies manual states that once you or your property, be it physical or intellectual, enter the public domain it's all up for grabs. Also, unread intercepts are not violations since the material is still technically private, blah, blah, blah............



Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:27 | Link to Comment James
James's picture

WB7, the problem W/that is you don't own the origin site where you put the email. Your ISP technically owns all email content by virtue of you placing it on there property.

Same as a graffiti artist suing Bruce Krasting for using his work. The graffiti artist does'nt own the wall, train car,etc.

Crazy huh?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:34 | Link to Comment Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

if you read the EULA's of various services im sure you gave up any privacy.    who the fuck reads those?  It'd be scary to know what's in em.    We need a open source co-op that reads all that stuff.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You just need to submit to it so you can find out what's in it.........

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:43 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Kind of like how you need to pass a law so you can figure out what's in it...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:09 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

The discovery portion of the case may be tough for the plaintiff, what with the whole national security thing.
Find an attorney with sec clearance and give it a shot.
Imma ask this on Bill Handles radio show, just for kicks

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 05:55 | Link to Comment Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Depends on what jurisdiction. Data privacy law in Hk is very strict but limited liabiliaty (Common Law) might not get at the extent of the commercial violation. Need to protect any email communication with the standard warning that lawyers use as to third party breaches--you know the this email etc. Many universities  and lawyers will state this after their email communications. Not sure this is a 'protection' if the other side of the equation is a spook scoop.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

If you're not buying semi- local and paying with cash then you're freaking crazy. I can see the NSA goons now... According to Amazon's records you have bought two slings and two scopes in the past month. We need you to turn over both you rifles right now.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:17 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Oh boy- that is just the tip of the iceberg with my AMZN orders.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:42 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

Considering that VISA/MC/Amex are forwarding data as well, they're not getting much more from Amazon that they aren't getting through other means.

It's a challenge to buy almost any bit of tech that costs more than $500 for cash these days. I'm just presuming I'm on the short list of Main Core or whatever new name they're using. Given that they've been gathering data for more than a decade, unless you raised your kids to only use cash, they've got something they don't like the looks of on virtually everyone.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

amazon is a cia front - it is not a private has been in business for years and loses money hand over fist - nothing which a truly private concern could has already handed over every electron of data it has to the government....

i was going to order from the nazis - before i knew they were nazis - when they would not process my order without a phone number - just in case my mailing address would not work. i told them to go fuck themselves....i am an ex-amazon customer and proud of it.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:15 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

One of the more common arguments to surface out of the statist is: "well, the phone company keeps that data so big fucking deal" Yes retard they do but I am free to contract with the fucking phone company and if I find out they are abusing it I can tell them where to shove it, ever try doing that with the IRS?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:23 | Link to Comment Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

Yes, I tried it.  Now I walk funny.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:20 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Losing $ has nothing to do with being in business and everything to do w/ the stock market. Without the Fed most companies would be in the same boat as AMZN.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment pitz
pitz's picture

Nah, there's been tons of companies, particularly those that actually make things (rather than just use cheap money to speculate) that have been seriously damaged by the Federal Reserve and Helicopter Ben's actions.  After all, bad money drives out the good money.  Why run a factory, when there's far superior profits to be had by buying US T-bonds or similar proxies thereof on margin at 0% rates? 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:34 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture




You are spot on. There are thousands of companies whose sole customers are federal departments and agencies.

FedBizOpps ( ), the follow on the old yellow sheet Commerce Business Daily, is a gold mine for companies selling goods and services into the federal system.

Worth checking out sometime, along with the Federal Register ( ) where the calls for proposals and vendors are made public.


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:29 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Who junks a post like this? Troll fucking city

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:17 | Link to Comment g'kar
g'kar's picture

The "Main Core" database must be huge after 30 years. (become a beta tester)

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:21 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Corporate welfare bitchez.........

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:35 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

“If a country intrudes on personal interests in this way, why would one need a country?”

excellent question


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 04:29 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In case you guys didn't know... The Chinese bought IBM years ago.

TPTB did not object. But when they tried to buy a Californian oil company, to get a sear at the US oil cartel table, they kiboshed the deal.

Now they're simplify prepping for a US-China escalation.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 12:18 | Link to Comment Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Chinese company bought the IBM Personal Computer Division.

Beyond that, I don't know.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Interesting blogpost, but it entirely misses the point. The quote may be inauthentic, but it Is definitely accurate. The fact that it carried a different a slightly different meaning in the theoretical context of Italian Fascism does not mean we cannot use it today, though it is important that people know the differences as well as the similarities. The point stands that the state merges directly with the economy, but this by itself does not constitute fascism, it is too vague anyway. The author goes to pains to prove this very point, he merely (over)emphasizes the fact that the state is in control, that it is more of a takeover than a merger. If not for the number of people who blame corporations while giving the government a free pass, it would be a minor point of only academic interest. Unfortunately such stupid people exist, and in large numbers, and they continue to fundamentally misunderstand the nature and role of the state. The blog did not mention this aspect of the issue, though it is clearly there, between the lines.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:51 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

agreed that his point misses the point.   i see as more of a chicken and egg scenario.    whether it's the chicken or the egg who's driivng is irrelevant.   still thought it was a interesting bit of history on a well-used quote.

got no problem myself quoting Mike Ruppert paraphrasing Mussolini.   he hit the hammer on the nail with that one.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

So welcome back mercantilism. Capitalism is dead and buried and America has given up on economic freedom. It's now every corporate/military/state for itself and to hell with the victims. There is no Geneva Convention for victims of economic warfare, no refugee camps, no bailouts, no Red Cross assistance. Learn subsistence.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It's awful hard to call people who line up at Wall-Mart at three in the morning in order to be the first to get a hold of the latest techno gadgets (among other things) victims...........

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:13 | Link to Comment TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

People who kill themselves are victims of suicide.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:19 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Awful easy to call them assholes though

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:33 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Looks like we may finally get Holder's head on a stick. Apparently FISC court ruled PRISM was unconstitutional as far back as 2011 and the DOJ moved in have the ruling sealed so they could continue an unconstitutional program without any oversight.

You may have heard about the NSA-based PRISM program that’s been blowing up the web lately. What you probably haven’t heard, is that the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court ruled that it was unconstitutional. In 2011. 

Why hasn’t this come up before now? Simple, once the ruling made its way to the DOJ, they immediately moved to seal the judgement and keep it a secret from the American people. In a recent (and rare) public filing, the DOJ’s actions are made clear (if you have the patience to read all the way through it, that is).

Direct link to the DOJ filing

So, let’s follow the chain of events here:


  1. NSA violates the 4th amendment by seizing electronic records without warrant or probable cause.
  2. “Secret” court rules that NSA’s actions are unconstitutional and violate said 4th amendment.
  3. DOJ gets wind of this, and immediately orders that this ruling should be kept a secret, lest the citizens find out that their government has been violating the bill of rights.

Yeah, that seems to be about the size of it. As if the DOJ hadn’t already lost the confidence of the American people, now we learn that they actively work to hide violations of the bill of rights. Nice.

Congress should be calling for this fuckers head and criminal charges against him and the DOJ lawyers that worked this case.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:38 | Link to Comment g'kar
g'kar's picture

It's a Hydra, many heads need to be on many stakes.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 05:39 | Link to Comment Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

So glad you said this.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:40 | Link to Comment Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

the court didn't know holder was continuing the practice?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I don't know what the court knew only that Holder and the DOJ had the ruling buried so no one could see so the program could continue.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:34 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

if true, that could be the straw that broke the camel toe.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:44 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

Yes, Bezos the ponytailed moron with an online bookstore which never made a profit, built Amazon into its current state all by himself. Unfuckingbelievable. Perhaps sending this to my friends that think I'm a conspiracy but will wake them up.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:49 | Link to Comment pitz
pitz's picture

Its very hard to even get a coherent answer as to why Amazon has a P/E ratio of 500 or so.   Or what's so great about AWS or EC3.  Even the tech professionals I associate with can't seem to answer such. 

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 02:23 | Link to Comment IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

AT&T wireless every make a dime?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:12 | Link to Comment 2discern
2discern's picture

It now becomes clearer why Bezos was at the Bilderberg meeting. The planning goes forward...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:42 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Ponytail?  Bezos?  I thought the guy was bald.

Yes the multiple is obscene

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Keep buying shit from Amazon (or eBay) because you get the best deals... L "oh" fucking, L... Jumping Jesus H Christ, I've been using the intertubes longer than either of those websites have been around. My total interaction time (or purchases) is exactly ZERO.


... and, BitChEZ!

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 05:32 | Link to Comment smacker
smacker's picture


Quite so. Here's another of Musso's quotes:

"The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative."

More at:

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:07 | Link to Comment Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

GE Healthcare to spend $2 bln developing software
11 June 2013
, (MarketWatch)

Pentagon Five-Year Cybersecurity Plan Seeks $23 Billion
10 June 2013
, by Tony Capaccio (Bloomberg)

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:33 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

IBM, Indians Badly Managed is not the IBM of yesteryear.

It is a guarenteed failure in anything and everything they do.


PS.  I think one or two researchers in their Silicon Valley research facility are good but the firm is to be avoided.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:36 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Participate in the latest alternatives by attending your local Linux User Group meetings.

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

It is very profitable and I have had my campaign to license and tax data sellers for the last couple of years, billions are made.  Walgreens makes short of a billion a year selling data so watch what you do there. 

Now on healthcare, tons of profits are made and all of those devices for consumer heatlh, well most could not survive without selling data, just read their privacy policies.   I'm glad more are paying attention here as it's a rip, they make millions selling your data and when the flaws and errors catch up wihich are growing in numbers, you are on your own dime to fix..fair?  Not hardly. 

When it comes to insurance exchanges, the biggest health insurer in the US is also one of the biggest data sellers too and they make millions at it.  Also as a side note, see how embedded United is with the military too.  They have more truckloads of subsidiaires than you can shake a stick at so when not recognized by the public and others, let the subsidiary do the work.  They have the big Tri-Care contract and hired Steve Larsen who wrote most of the healthcare law from HHS, and now look what this division of United does.

With all these subsidiaries they have you know data is being shared and analyzed. 

Back on topic, why id the public not more outraged?  I keep asking that question but most have a hard time getting their heads around how the data mechanics make all of this work.  It is an intangible and not something you can see, and that was the entire root of the Occupy movement which I called when it started.  Something was wrong but folks could not put their fingers on it.  Heck I even had an editor at Forbes back then ask me how this works, so lots don't get this.

Looking for major insurers on state heatlh insurance exchanges..they are not there when the living is good off of DOD and VA contracts, they dont need us.  Uncile Sam is taking care of United it appears.  Again everyone knows about the Tri-Care but look at the LHI contract which nobody ever discussed and further more has no clue this is a Untied subsidiary.  NSA inerests here too...could be

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 04:20 | Link to Comment NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

IBM or Amazon for Spook infrastructure?


My money, errmmm... BitCoin,  is on IBM - if for no other reason than an ex-IBMer -  that  fat little toad  Gerstner - currently squats atop the "Ex Presidents, Prime Ministers, Uber Spooks & Narco Kingpins Retirement Club" aka The Carlyle Group.

All part of "Keeping it in the Family" .

Also, probably figures its a good opp.  to "plump up" his stock-options a little.


Thu, 06/13/2013 - 04:54 | Link to Comment Debugas
Debugas's picture

based on announcement of the further job cuts in IBM the winner is ... Amazon

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 05:32 | Link to Comment Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

Speaking about parasitic pigs at the gov't trough hasn't't the DoD been Microsoft's biggest customer?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:24 | Link to Comment Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

“the hypocrisy of the US government when it claims that it does not target civilian infrastructure, unlike its adversaries”. “Not only does it do so, but it is so afraid of this being known that it is willing to use any means, such as diplomatic intimidation, to prevent this information from becoming public.” -  Ed Snowden

The rewards to some private companies engaged with the NSA in  spying activities may go beyond lucrative payments for system contract development. The information ultimately gathered while operating these systems in the name of national security could have huge commercial value to those with exclusive access to it. Suppose if while spying on the Chinese, Booz Allen Hamilton happens to uncover some secret government plan to step up oil and commodity purchases, or build a pipeline somewhere. Might that be valuable information for the Carlyle Group to have on an exclusive basis? I think so. I think such information could give them all kinds of advantages over their competition in private sector activities. It would not be unlike the advantage SAC was gaining in the markets from information gathered through its expert networks. I can imagine BAH and Carlyle being, “willing to use any means, such as diplomatic intimidation, to prevent this information from becoming public”, all  in the name of national  security, of course. The information itself is potentially a lot more valuable to them commercially than anything they make from their government contract with NSA. If so, is this whole affair not also another example of crony capitalism, with the government funding activities in the national interest which indirectly favor and produce huge profits for a select chosen few in private sector activities (you know, like the Fed’s relationship with Wall Street)?  Perhaps it’s the Carlyle Group which should be paying the NSA, instead of the other way around, for the exclusive right to spy on others in the name of national security? Perhaps the NSA should be auctioning those rights to the highest bidder instead of spending taxpayer dollars on it?   

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:09 | Link to Comment IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

"The hand that gives is above the hand that receives."

If the government makes Booze Allen Hamilton and Carlysle dependent on it them for their existence then the government has captured and assimilated those two companies.

The temptations of evil, eh?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 07:36 | Link to Comment highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

Magnot line, breach.  Ron Paul was wrong it is not "Soft Fascism." ..  How abut CEO pay to top line with clawbacks.  Not earnings.   That would put a crimp in 1%

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:46 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

when fascism comes to America it will come
wrapped in the flag and waving a cross." ...

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 08:59 | Link to Comment IamtheREALmario
IamtheREALmario's picture

Maybe "so called" investors should consider how much of corporate America's revenue and profits are funded out of Obummer's TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT. How much money are the US spy agencies sending to Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Apple, Microsoft, ATT, Verizon et. al. in exchange for data on the essentially good and harmless people of the United States of America.

Are there any implications to be drawn on this for the future? Please keep in mind that control comes out of the creation of dependencies. Are the large data collecting companies becoming DEPENDENT on the spies, spooks and thugs to maintain their P&L and justify the obnoxious and antisocial salaries and perks of the captured and corrupted heads of corporate America?

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:33 | Link to Comment post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

COTS, bitchez!

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 09:34 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

Taxpayer money?  Hardly.  That's just for salaries, office equipment and such.  The payoff money comes directly from from the CIA's drug trade.

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