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Snowden' Second Interview To Hong Kong Paper: "I Am Not Here To Hide From Justice; I Am Here To Reveal Criminality"

Tyler Durden's picture


Following the dramatic self-revelatory interview/profiling of Edward Snowden by the Guardian's Glenn Greenwald, the media world, and everyone else, has been abuzz about what other revelations the NSA whistleblower may bring to light. Moments ago, the South China Morning Post releases the much anticipated second interview with the 29 year old. While hardly earth-shattering, it does provide some additional insight into the mind of the administration's current persona most non grata.

From South China Morning Post:

Snowden said last night that he had no doubts about his choice of Hong Kong.


“People who think I made a mistake in picking Hong Kong as a location misunderstand my intentions. I am not here to hide from justice; I am here to reveal criminality,” Snowden said in an exclusive interview with the South China Morning Post.


“I have had many opportunities to flee HK, but I would rather stay and fight the United States government in the courts, because I have faith in Hong Kong’s rule of law,” he added.


Snowden says he has committed no crimes in Hong Kong and has “been given no reason to doubt [Hong Kong’s legal] system”.


“My intention is to ask the courts and people of Hong Kong to decide my fate,” he said.




Beijing will seek to interfere in a likely extradition case.


The Hong Kong government has so far refused to comment on Snowden’s case. While many Hong Kong lawmakers, legal experts, activisits and members of the public have called on the city’s courts to protect Snowden’s rights, others such as Beijing loyalist lawmaker and former security chief Regina Ip Lau Suk-yee said he should leave.


Hong Kong Human Rights Monitor director Law Yuk-kai said he was surprised by Snowden’s choice, adding: “Snowden’s positive view of Hong Kong no longer matches the reality.”


Law said a possible reason for his choice could be Hong Kong’s role as the region’s news hub.


“Hong Kong remains a hub of the global media, not least because of its proximity to the economic boom in southern China and the ease of access to many other Asian cities. The publicity could complicate efforts by the United States to charge Snowden and have him deported,” he said.


Snowden said yesterday that he felt safe in the city.


“As long as I am assured a free and fair trial, and asked to appear, that seems reasonable,” he said.


He says he plans to stay in Hong Kong until he is “asked to leave”.


The United States has not yet filed an application for extradition.


Snowden could choose to fight any extradition attempt in court. Another option open to him is to seek refugee status from the office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees in Hong Kong.



Local activists plan to take to the streets on Saturday in support of Snowden. Groups including the Civil Human Rights Front and international human rights groups will march from Chater Gardens in Central to the US consulate on Garden Road, starting at 3pm.


The march is being organised by In-media, a website supporting freelance journalists.


“We call on Hong Kong to respect international legal standards and procedures relating to the protection of Snowden; we condemn the US government for violating our rights and privacy; and we call on the US not to prosecute Snowden,” the group said in a statement.


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Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:53 | 3650257 The Juggernaut
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'I'm neither traitor nor hero. I'm an American.' - Edward Snowden

Damn this dude is a hero

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:53 | 3650262 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

He's got more guts than all the pampered bank CEO's currently running insolvent institutions.  I give him credit.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:00 | 3650279 Pladizow
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"Treason doth never prosper. For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." - Sir John Harrington 1561-1613

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:14 | 3650363 Fanatic
Fanatic's picture

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies". -Ron Paul

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:17 | 3650377 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Has Snowdumb mentioned the agreement he signed and dated, which stated the max punishment should he divulge the secret info he was to handle..??

That is the key.

He is so screwed.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:20 | 3650389 bagehot99
bagehot99's picture

MDB - are you a national security hawk now? LOL, and an expert on the detailed terms applied to government contractors!! I'm pretty sure you were a massive defender of Scooter Libby, weren't you? Hello? You did defend non-leaker Libby, right?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650395 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

Yes.  As an American, he did obviously uphold the US Constitution agreement.  Unlike the vast majority of DC... and you, MillionDollarBogus_.

Wasn't it "Bonus"?

"Earlier, in the interview in which he revealed his identity to the world, Snowden explained that he had sought refuge in Hong Kong because it “has a strong tradition of free speech” and “a long tradition of protesting in the streets.”

Local activists plan to take to the streets on Saturday in support of Snowden. Groups including the Civil Human Rights Front and international human rights groups will march from Chater Gardens in Central to the US consulate on Garden Road, starting at 3pm."

I am Edward Snowden!


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:47 | 3650509 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

There are several versions of this troll. I'm not even sure the original is still around anymore.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:47 | 3650715 redpill
redpill's picture

Any one of these dirtbag politicians that try to call this man a traitor are only condemning themselves.  The curtain just got pulled back and the roaches are running.  Fuck yeah, Ed Snowden, fuck yeah!  How do we donate to the legal defense fund?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 21:20 | 3652380 mjcOH1
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"...because I have faith in Hong Kong’s rule of law,” he added."

He's articulate and I've enjoyed reading the transcripts of his interviews. There's been little bluster or bullshit in his remarks. Until this one that is. Sounds like he got bored and hit the cheap saki before that gem. Good luck with Communist Chinese courts or civil liberty protections.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650415 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Years ago I signed a 'need to know' agreement in order to receive a security clearance. 

Snowdumb did the same.

He has scewed himself in a royal fashion...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:26 | 3650422 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

MillionDollarBogus_:  You're a traitor to the USA.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:32 | 3650664 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

And MDB is a liar since he shuold know that a NDA does not cover CRIMINAL activity, of course.

That so many normally intelligent Americans think this guy a traitor for whistleblowing shows haow stupid the public has become.

Our democracy is almost brain-dead.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:30 | 3650429 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"Secret info"...LOL. How about just providing confirmation of what many already suspected/knew?

He understood exactly what he was doing. And what about you? How's the view from the bleachers pussy?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:06 | 3650582 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

the bleacher's view is much better now that the panties are off.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:38 | 3650478 Henry Rearden
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Agreements become invalid if illegal activity is involved.  Not having a search warrant to gain access to someones information is illegal. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:28 | 3650643 BraveSirRobin
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This is a potentially valid point, and may be the bone of his legal defense. You cannot use government classification to attemtp to hide or coverup illicit or criminal activity. However, if the program exposed is deemed legal, and the government will contend it is so, he will be prosecuted and convicted. His trial will be political not in the sense of it being a show trial, but in the sense that the determination of the american people as to the legality and acceptability of what he has exposed will determine his fate.

Latest polls show a majority of the people are OK with what the NSA is doing, so it looks like life in a SUPERMAX for Snowden.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:27 | 3650416 RichardP
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... stated the max punishment should he divulge the secret info he was to handle..

Can you be more specific?  There is people's private information that the government collected that he was to handle.  Then there is the fact that the government was actually collecting said private information.

He has not revealed people's private information that he was handling.  He has only revealed the fact that the government was collecting it.  Do you think he signed an agreement that laid out the maximum punishment he would receive if he revealed that the government was collecting your personal information, illegally?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:34 | 3650916 BraveSirRobin
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So here's a list of all the countries without an extradition treaty with the US:

: Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burma, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, China, Comoros, Congo (Kinshasa), Congo (Brazzaville), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Ivory Coast, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macedonia, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Mauritania, Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Vanuatu, Vatican, Vietnam and Yemen.

There are quite a few suprises here considering the political relationships between the US and some of these countries. I have been to quite a few of these places and would deffinitely have my preferences. It is not clear if Hong Kong must honor an extradition because of China's status. In any event, Snowden can quickly slip the border to China if he feels pressure to do so. Hong Kong is also the media capital of the region, so it's easy to get his story out.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650421 OutLookingIn
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Only if he is under the exclusive domain and custody of the good ole U.S. of A.

Otherwise, he can legally renounce and tell them to go "pound salt"!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:30 | 3650434 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

His integrity trumps your fear, MDB.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:22 | 3650628 angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Your Bonus already turned Bogus ??


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:45 | 3650711 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

What bonus.?  We've been downsized - cutbacks are hell.

My point here is not that the govenment has engaged in illegal activity.  They do that stuff every day. Just ask any American Indian with knowledge of treaty violations going back to day 1.

Like a driver rolling through a red light, or driving while legally drunk, the goverment gets away with what it can, while they can, as long as they can.  Call it human nature.  Cheat until you get caught, then quit cheating.  Everyone does it.  Nixon is the poster-boy of government cheating/coverup.

So-dumb signed a confidentiality agreement of sorts.  The deal had nothing to do with the content of the info his employer handled.  The deal was that he would not talk about what he did.  He decided to not be quiet.  He broke an agreement.

Who here has never signed a confidentiality agreement?  Based on my red arrow count, I would say 99% or more.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:31 | 3650903 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Confidentiality agreements do not pertain to notification of illegal activities.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:54 | 3651022 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Hence the Patriot Act.

Every bit of data gathering will always be protected by the PA.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 17:22 | 3651627 analyzer_66
analyzer_66's picture

its funny how that old Patriot act was already written well before 911 happened, then, in the middle of the night, while no one was looking, the Patriot act was rammed down our throats with few lawmakers actually reading the "BOOK" that is the Patriot act.  The snowjob on our right to privacy, is now being....

Snowden'ed ??

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 18:35 | 3651847 NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

Back in the late '80s I was assigned to an Air Force recon unit that required a very high level security clearence and we were "forced" to sign all sorts of shit. And then upon leaving the AF, I was required to sign another "agreement" that supposedly shut me up for 70 years (pretty funny eh?). So yes, agreements like MDB describes are for real. HOWEVER, and this is a big however, there were limits even on those documents for those of us in the military at the time. We were not required to follow illegal orders and were in fact required to blow the whistle on illegal orders and activities. And "I was just following orders" was not a defense to illegal activity. And finally, as an AirForce Officer, I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. (One of the reasons I got out was many of the missions I was flying had absolutely nothing to do with our defending our Constitution)

So yes, Snowden probably signed some worthless paper, but if he can prove he was trying to uncover illegal activity he may have legal cover. I do realize there may be differences between active military and contractors, and things have gone full retard FUBAR since my days, so I think some confidentiality docs are the least of his concerns.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:16 | 3650843 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Did the SS sign agreements with Hitler?  Didnt mean dick when it was all over.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 16:25 | 3651429 booboo
booboo's picture

hey Retardius Maximus Bogusius, you ass mutts need to get your story striaght.

 Monday the narrative was "he was a traitor and committed treason" today it is, "Well, this so called evil spying, it's really reasonable peek a boos into a huge pile trying to find the needles befor they are stuck in the hay stack" (kinda like the boston bombers that they knew about but did nothing, you know, actionable information that the lame ass gooberment does not take action on because it harm to human life can be leveraged.)

So I ask: what state secrets did he divulge? OR If is really not big deal that they spy on us, what did he violate?


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:20 | 3650388 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

the nsa fucks with our privacy and snowden is a hero.  and he is.  the us army slaughters civilians in bagdad and bradley manning is a footnote.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:33 | 3650452 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

Maybe this will help Bradley Manning..

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:35 | 3650675 JimBowie1958
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Manning was a homosexual who put out US military secrets to embarras a former lover.

Manning is of ZERO comparison to Snowden.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:33 | 3650910 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Does it still sting that he embarrassed you?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 15:45 | 3651262 tunnelvizn
tunnelvizn's picture

Something only a current lover would ask !

Fri, 06/14/2013 - 11:34 | 3658171 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

You know, counter-acusations are the cheapest, least creative and boring rhetorical tactics in the books.

Manning is no hero, but a confused and angry little twit.

Your low-life humor does nothing to change those facts.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:58 | 3650284 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Can we extradite Obama to Hong Kong pls? ( for a fair trial) what are the rules on that one?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:03 | 3650310 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Conveniently the EPA has a document on the subject.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:05 | 3650311 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Well let's see. When he was born he was a British dual national at best, but Hong Kong is no longer tied to the Brits politically. He was/i an Indonesian citizen, so that angle could be investigated. He may be a US citizen or may have been at some point in time, but I'm not sure that helps either way.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 15:26 | 3651175 LostAtSea
LostAtSea's picture

Not to take anything away from his heroics, but I bet he had some pussy lined up in Hong Kong.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 16:25 | 3651422 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

MDB lives in Hong Kong???

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:07 | 3650325 falak pema
falak pema's picture

lol, maybe WB7 can get him to do an interview on how he became GWB's soul brother. 


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:02 | 3650565 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

This is a difficult question. Do the Hong Kong/USA rules apply or do the Hong Kong/Kenyan rules trump them. Hard coices.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:10 | 3650814 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

Moscow rules entirely

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:15 | 3650367 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

He's got 5 times the guts of all our papererd politicians currently running an insolvent country.  I give him credit too.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:43 | 3650495 resurger
resurger's picture

+1000000000 lol

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:02 | 3650293 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

once again,  bradley manning also...

im glad they are going to take to the an american i will be watching jerry springer...and wont be available that day...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:46 | 3650712 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

I will state Manning's case is different. Manning contends he released the classified information in reaction to callousness he saw expressed in combat "shooter" videos, or so I recall. However, he did not release only that video, he relased everything he could get his hands on, no matter what its nature or potential to expose perfectly legal and legitmate activity because of disdain for a single particular action unrelated to all the other documents he released. Snowden's defense is that he saw illegal activity that was classified to keep it from autorities and the american people, and that the documents he is exposing are narrowly drawn and focused on that illegal activity.

There is a big differnce between the two. One is focused in his exposure, the other had a visceral reaction that smaked more of personal retaliation that lead to a lot damge and people getting killed. Manning is no hero. I will wait for more information to make a judgement on Snowden. First reports are often wrong, but it appears from my point of view the NSA and USG are engaged in something called a "general warrant" which is exactly and specifically what the 4th Amendment was adopted to prohibit. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:22 | 3650867 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

Manning did what he could 

the sheer volume was immense

it was not vindictiveness that drove him

it was realizing the depths of military carelessness

calousness and malicious incompetence

and the political universe of war lies 


interesting timing for Snowden's action amid Manning's CM

hope it's a trend

Thu, 06/13/2013 - 00:40 | 3653126 BraveSirRobin
BraveSirRobin's picture

No, Manning was rash and reckless. He released a multitude of documents that had nothing to do with the supposed sins that drove him to his action. As a result, a number of people were killed as they were exposed as collabortors with US and allied forces. His actions were as crass and callow as those he coplained about. He is not hero.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 18:43 | 3651870 NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

+1 For closing the circle on general warrants and the 4th Amendments.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:59 | 3650297 BandGap
BandGap's picture

He's no dummy picking HK as his Alamo.

I like this guy, he's thinking things through for the long haul.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:16 | 3650362 xtop23
xtop23's picture

I remain skeptical, but in so far as I fail to see how this would be of benefit to anyone, I have to assume he's done the moral thing.

Even a neocon-led agenda ( political take-down of 'Bama ) doesn't really fit the bill. Most of them have identical goals. They would just prefer to be the ones pulling the strings and thereby benefitting financially.

I don't see how, if the U.S. really wanted him, they wouldn't simply black-bag him and ship him off to some undisclosed location for extraordinary rendition.

You have my gratitude and respect, Mr. Snowden.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:18 | 3650382 Umh
Umh's picture

That seems like a really good reason to stay in the news. If he does disappear people will assume that the US did him in.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650418 xtop23
xtop23's picture

I think rather it's a matter of not bothering to attempt to put the pin back in when the grenade has already blown up.

I'd also comment that if he does in fact have further evidence of significant criminal transgressions, and he isn't holding them back as insurance, he should disclose those items as rapidly as possible.

Otherwise, he may not get the chance.

Kid has balls.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:42 | 3650494 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

Going public is a good thing, but only when the MSM pays attention. This was a huge risk he took, to be ignored by the US MSM, which is why it was key to have Glenn Greenwald expose this in the Guardian first. Some stories are just too big for the corporate owned and controlled US media to ignore, or highlight briefly.

Hoping this can somehow help Bradley Manning, and many other whistleblowers..

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:52 | 3650259 Racer
Racer's picture

There are very few around who risks what he has done to reveal the criminality of the eleeches in the US

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:00 | 3650299 Midasking
Midasking's picture

The kid has guts.. get your tyranny news here..

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:05 | 3650317 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

it's a long hard road he's on. it's gonna be tough. i wish him the best. he stole documents from a Security Agency...that's a firing offense in any organization. Good luck convincing "zee authorities" to turn over the documents of course. Requires a certain amount of "creativity" as they say...heck even Congress is having a hard time with that...although they are discovering when they work together...anyways The back and forth between Hong Kong and New York of course as been very interesting. "Just a small little trading post" you say? Boy...been a long time since i've been there (late 80's) but it's quite the City...and urban metropolis. Of course "good luck speaking Cantonese." I spoke Mandarin (barely) and they used to run circles around my "quaint Government language." Don't even get me started on reading or writing "their style." being served tea was alright though. that part i got. anywho "the NSA was not authorized by Congress" so i think he might have a potential (bipartisan?) friend there. they have to listen to all us complainers all the time so "it's the bear of the job in DC" unlike say...being a Senator. this will be interesting to see...a media war between Hong Kong and New York would be a sight to behold indeed. Oh, and...unlike me as well...this Snowden guy is a real cool customer. I can see why the CIA/NSA folks liked him.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:54 | 3650266 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Cool. No extradition, so try the US Government in front of a Hong Kong jury.

Moar popcorn, please!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:54 | 3650267 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I think you are going to see a big turnout on Saturday. These people know how to throw a shindig on weekends.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:01 | 3650302 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Shindig in Hong Kong. I'm still laughing.

Mojo Nixon's next CD title.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:07 | 3650326 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i'll be watching. "the thing about New Media is's NEW." hmmmm.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:15 | 3650368 Fuku Ben
Fuku Ben's picture

You're probably right next door to this guy

See if you can track him down and get a ZH exclusive

And get a copy of that powerpoint presentation while you're at it

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:15 | 3650840 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

All forty-one pages instead of Only the four published.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:16 | 3650372 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

fuck I hope so

he's a step ahead of assange

he's already in the country

the one that can have the most effect on us

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:56 | 3650281 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

He may.......I say may, just have saved the USA from fully turning in to a Nazi Superstate.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:07 | 3650301 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Hate to be Johnny Raincloud here... But my fear is that if he gets too cozy with the Chi-Coms, in 5...4...3...2..., the sychophant media will have the public believing he's passing 'secrets' to them and make him a villain...


They already have Maxine Waters working on the 'Peggy Joseph' crew...

& Feinstein already has her derelicts rounded up by calling him a traitor...


He's already been called out for dating pole dancers... Next thing you know, they'll have a 7 year old come out to say he flashed a group of kids in a playground... He'll get the full on 'Ben Richards' treatment...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:13 | 3650359 Peachfuzz
Peachfuzz's picture

We've seen what the likes of waters and feinstein have done for guns and ammo sales, why would they have any credibility on this issue?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:28 | 3650428 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

They don't [have any credibility] in the ZH world... But to the 'I don't give a shit' crowd, it's enough for even an ambivalent fence sitter to think... 'Hey ~ there's a Congresscritter of a Senator who says this person is bad... I'm not alone'...


Let me put it to you another way... DON'T look at 'guns & ammo' sales to take the pulse of America... Here's a better way... Look around at bumper stickers and see how many 'Obama' stickers haven't been pulled off... Even if it's only due to outright laziness, that ought to tell you something important right there...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:41 | 3650482 malikai
malikai's picture

I haven't seen an Obama bumper sticker since 2010.

But then again, 2010 was the last time I was back in the prison colony.

Point being, this effects the entire world. And the entire world has no concern for who the teleprompter is or what lies it says.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:50 | 3650519 Peachfuzz
Peachfuzz's picture

Funny you should mention that. I was out in the woods a couple weeks back and happened across some baby boomer couple with an obama sticker on their woods rig. I come up on them, the wife down on her hands and knees crawling under a tree that had fallen on the path, meanwhile the husband walked around it. It was the only fuckin thing in the way for miles, and she headed right for it. I think I know who put the sticker on the machine. Other than that not only are all the obama stickers gone in my area, but the American flags have even been taken down. This is a Joe 6-pack community we're talking about here.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:14 | 3650364 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

You know its coming francis. They will try to marginalize him and discredit the story.

So let's keep our eye on the ball around here.

A Call To The Invisible Army Of The Restoration Of Liberty (Col Potter, ret.)

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650391 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

i have a feeling (maybe just a hope) that he's already thought that through and perhaps so have the chinese. It will be interesting to watch. What do we say here everyday. Only the money matters. But the chinese have an extraordinary opportunity here to once and for all call bullshit on our fictional democracy and capitalism. a rare opportunity to demonstrate, mostly by their opponents actions, that they are no second rate society of rules or government. Remember this unconstituional scheme involves not only corrupt government but market controlling huge corporations making secret deals. Capital markets like everything else are based on nothing more than perceived respect and stability

This could get weird 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:48 | 3650510 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"This could get weird"

HK is a very interesting choice.  "Snowden" is a great name if it is an alias.  I want to believe this story at face value, and I will accept its credibility until I see convincing evidence that is not actually as it seems on the surface.  That aside, if this were a set-up of some sort--perhaps with the Utah Data Center coming online, as David Rockefeller said to the CFR, "It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government", and now the Gov's puppeteers are less concerned about exposure, since their plan is already operational and unstoppable by rival technology--a triple-agent 'Snowden' is sent to start public uprising in HK, which because of its 'anti-American' nature will rile up the Chinese public to protect a dissident of their 'foreign national enemy', while then next refocusing their dissent at their own government.  It's an elaborate enough plot to tempt the creativity of antiestablimentarians, but Occam suggests its implausible.  The surface story still seems the most likely, and Snowden, despite the odd name, seems a human hero.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:24 | 3650414 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Dating pole dancers adds to credibility in my book.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:30 | 3650435 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

So if they can't get to him they'll get to her... They'll find her in an alley ridin the white horse with a stolen LV bag...

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:57 | 3650544 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

That of course is why nobody seems to give a shit about Bradley Manning.   What if he had been a mountain climber with a hot girlfriend?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:30 | 3650437 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

I can't even listen to that idiot Waters, and Feinstein better watch out who she's calling a traitor.

There will be a huge attempt to focus on the messenger instead of the unconstitutional acts being perpetrated. As we have seen just because our branches of govt vote in favor of something doesn't make it legal, but that seems to be the argument at this point, that everyone voted for it, everyone knew about what's the big beef? These same clowns are trying to downplay the fact that the monitoring overstepped the bounds defined by the alegedly legal legislation.

The big beef is the extent to which peoples privacy has been violated.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:39 | 3650688 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Both of them (and about 550 others) should be dangling from a lamppost.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:57 | 3650282 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Duplicate Post

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:57 | 3650283 falak pema
falak pema's picture

this guy impresses me more and more; right on the button : my personal concern is telling the truth on the amplitude of the fraud, not protecting my own neck. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:12 | 3650352 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"truth" unfortunately is the goal in these matters. He may THINK that way...but he's just one guy. Giving VOICE to concerns however is something worthy in my view. "the word not spoken to begin with...the conversation that was never had"...THAT is the infringement...and i ain't talking "liberties" here. we're HUMANS...this is how we COMMUNICATE!!! (perhaps a more direct approach is with a little stand up comedy number: "there were these two intel guys who sat down to have a conversation about secrets and it went like this."

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:57 | 3650286 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I've been hearing increasing theory that this is some sort of limited hang out operation, and I hope it isn't the case. We'll find out soon I expect depending on what subsequent information is revealed - Greenwald seems to suggest alot. Interesting times. I hope all is what it appears and this is a nerd with a conscience. The stories about his girlfriend, replete with glamor ballerina shots and dialog that would make a romance novel writer blush is however..... odd.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:00 | 3650300 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Even so.


I can't see how this benefits the NSA, CIA, Obama, etc etc etc. But as you say, if it is all a show, who is pulling the strings and why? A NeoCon lead takedown of Obama? A large group of likeminded true "Americans" who have seen what is happening, and need a way to break the news, so a dramatic story with good looking actors and great lines for the TV??


Interesting times we live in.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:21 | 3650392 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I get that. The postulate is sort of the same as wikileaks with assange. Where there is a muted indignation revealing more about secrets we knew were there, but not as bad. The guy gets demonized, and 3 weeks later, the new season of duck dynasty starts. I hope not, but it certainly isn't implausible, given the attention span and lack of principle in the masses. This in many ways will likely boil down to a partisan fist fight, with mongoloid neo con republicans taking the dem side.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:40 | 3650473 ponzisaurus
ponzisaurus's picture

Very simple.  They want us to know the level of surveillance we are under.  They cant just come out and tell us that doesnt fit the narrative.  While the narrative is malleable and growing more so it has structural limits.  So a leak has to occur.  This transition from guessing that all you say or do is known to knowing that all you say or do is known is a obvious progression.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:28 | 3650893 Insignificunt
Insignificunt's picture


The machinery of a police state is almost useless if the people are unaware that they are being watched.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:12 | 3650347 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

I wish he just leaked to wikileaks. Then we would have got all the documents, rather than one powerpoint slide at a time (with redactions) from the Guardian.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:26 | 3650423 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Regardless, that is part of the fun.

I have just loved watching them spin and lie one day only to be revealed as such the next, followed by more spin and lies--rinse and repeat. They seem to have shut-up now, fearing what else may come out and reveal the petty liars and cons that they are.

Based on that, I would bet that they are more angry at this reporter than Snowden, as the reporter's methods also revealed to all their mendacity, not just the spying, and that they fear most of all.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:36 | 3650466 RichardP
RichardP's picture

We won't get any more information from the reporters.  They will lose their families if they do.  The reporters have their entire lives to lose, so they can be successfully threatened to shut up.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 15:02 | 3651059 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Glen Greenwald is a pretty fearless guy, but he is seriously stepping on the toes of these fascist scum. His life could be more in danger than Snowden's

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:53 | 3650529 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Unless of course the foxy Guardian is waiting for NASA suits, et al,  to have their says, and then is going to pop them big time.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:24 | 3650410 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

I like the Daily Mail's headline:

Snowden's pole dancer girlfriend 'barely holding on'.

Needs more rosin, I guess.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:23 | 3650874 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Daily Mail likes making puns.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:33 | 3650450 G. Marx
G. Marx's picture

I know this kid, former roommate of my oldest son back when Ed lived in his mom's townhouse. This is the real deal.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:25 | 3650881 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

If true, you have now identified yourself and your family to the Government.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 15:28 | 3651186 G. Marx
G. Marx's picture

If they monitor my FB page they know better than to ask me anything.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:57 | 3650287 jtg
jtg's picture

Edward Snowden is a very brave young man.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 11:58 | 3650290 GoldForCash
GoldForCash's picture


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:21 | 3650393 ponzisaurus
ponzisaurus's picture

Appears out of the blue.


Cult of personality.


Telling us what we want to hear.


YEAH Snowden Snowden hes our man!!!!!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:27 | 3650885 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Still too young by six years.

But Obama is Unconstitutional as Not a Natural Born Citizen.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:00 | 3650298 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Who was Julian Assange again?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:02 | 3650303 XRAYD
XRAYD's picture

... And it is hard to do a drone strike in the canyons of Hong Kong. But that goes without saying ... we are already too scared of China.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:02 | 3650305 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Considering that the USA has quite likely spied deeply on the Hong Kong government, and many of its citizens, seems like a good call to me.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:07 | 3650306 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Eventually, we will learn that members of the MSM are now participating in NSA spying on its own citizens. Reporters will be used to entrap and/or capture whistleblowers. They'll be told that they are helping to "protect" us by spying on us and by "turning in" whistleblowers.

The MSM is not BIASED. It's COMPLICIT! Obama's recent sudden appearance as a press conference with preselected media people is suggestive of a new coordination being established with the Obama Admin. They will be given "privileged" access and news as a quid pro quo for dispensing propaganda and "cooperation" with government.

THIS is what tyranny looks like!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:05 | 3650316 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Holy shit... CNN is reporting about a gay lobby inside the Vatican't... the entire world is locked down in some sort of .gov spying and that's the best CNN can do?  Somebody stop this carnival ride I want to get off.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:49 | 3650518 TheMayor
TheMayor's picture

I stopped watching CNN years ago, just remove it from your favorites button on the remote.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:06 | 3650319 jean paul marat
jean paul marat's picture

Could this be a psyop designed to distract us from something bigger? Just a thought people.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:17 | 3650376 ponzisaurus
ponzisaurus's picture


 Whatever the crisis RFID and digital currency will be the solution.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:27 | 3650426 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

AIRFID: Anally injected RFID

I mean, would you put it past these assholes to want to put it past your asshole?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:48 | 3650516 ponzisaurus
ponzisaurus's picture

If they wanted to do it without individuals knowledge vaccination could be used but currently technology that is able to recieve and transmit is somewhat larger than a syringe orifice.  You cant very well pay for a purchase with RFID if you dont know it is there however.  Perhaps it will have a cell phone feature- wouldnt that be neat!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:38 | 3650682 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Colonoscopy, anyone?
Annual health check and prostate exam? Cough!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:15 | 3650821 ponzisaurus
ponzisaurus's picture

Your upgrade examination is overdue.  Examination is mandatory under the affordable health care act page 4659.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:01 | 3650772 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Whatever the crisis RFID and digital currency will be the solution.

RFID, by its very design, has a pretty big vulnerability which cannot be fixed. We should hope that those in control become utterly dependent upon it. What a laugh it will be.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:45 | 3652992 jean paul marat
jean paul marat's picture

Sibel edmonds > ed snowden. My gut tells me snowden is a spook, edmonds is the REAL whistleblower.  LET HER SPEAK FREAKS!!!!

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:06 | 3650323's picture

Join in on the fun!! 7 PM EST

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:17 | 3650374 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

delete from database where message like '<% script % >'

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:07 | 3650327 Screwball
Screwball's picture


Local activists plan to take to the streets on Saturday in support of Snowden. Groups including the Civil Human Rights Front and international human rights groups will march from Chater Gardens in Central to the US consulate on Garden Road, starting at 3pm.

I'm guessing it won't be televised here.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:08 | 3650334 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

Odd that he picked hong kong and expects china to assist him. If he was chinese and did this to the chinese government I dont think he would be alive still.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:20 | 3650385 machineh
machineh's picture

China is one of the few countries in the world big enough that the U.S. can't just push it around.

Whereas Europe is completely pussy-whipped. 

If Snowden had carried his data to the Guardian's headquarters in London, he'd already be renditioned back to New York or Vichyington, D.C.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:08 | 3650335 BGO
BGO's picture

Something to consider with the Snowden case... right now, the CIC is covertly trying to get his immigration bill passed. The Snowden case is doing a fine job of keeping the media pointed in one direction while the CIC works in another. 

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:10 | 3650340 ponzisaurus
ponzisaurus's picture

Yall got your chocolate ration.  It was even increased from 400 grams to 300 grams.  We have a lot of tolerance but this sort of behaviour is counter productive to our great society.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:11 | 3650345 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Meanwhile, back in the USSA:

If you haven't been taking those red pills, you've nothing to worry about:

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:11 | 3650346 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Conveniently, now many members of HK's Civil Human Rights Front will be in one place, so that China's much scarier version of the NSA doesn't even have to get off the couch. This guy Snowjob is a hero for all seasons!

All the Big Lie stuff of late is so stupid and transparent, it doesn't even appear to us in words: it's all in code. Goebbels would be creaming his lederhosen. People willingly submit to teevee programming, allow their bags to be checked, and offer intimate detail via FaceSpace while carrying a government-subsidized tracking device. It is an awesome thing to behold.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:12 | 3650348 sbenard
sbenard's picture

I don't know of a jury of 12 people anywhere in the US that would convict Snowden.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650419 machineh
machineh's picture

You overestimate your peers. 

Half the people in federal prisons are there for victimless crimes.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:47 | 3650719 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Probably mostly on plea deals. It's a standard MO for prosecutors to charge a defendant with 50 crimes, then take 49 of them off the table in return for a 'lenient' sentance and an easy conviction.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:36 | 3650467 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Never underestimate the stupidity of a jury.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:41 | 3650490 Darkside
Darkside's picture

they wont this is going to get real interesting

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:12 | 3650599 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

I don't know of a jury of 12 people anywhere in the US that would NOT convict Snowden.

There, fixed it for you. Don't forget, juries are pre-selected through an interview/screening process. Sure, you can pretend to be a blue-piller in your answers and hope to get on the jury and run interference. But these days, if the robed-tyrant with the gavel doesn't like the jury's decision....he just ignores it and proceeds with the decreeing the outcome desired by TPTB.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:56 | 3650753 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Motherfucker should be dangling from a lamppost. The judge, that is.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:37 | 3650671 BattlegroundEur...
BattlegroundEurope2011's picture

For a straw pole of opinion go to Military photos .net

Alot of those "Military" guys want Snowden hung drawn and quartered.

"USA Strong!"....No matter what the Gov. has to do to keep up the perceptions.

What these drones do not understand is that what goes around comes around sooner or later.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 19:23 | 3651981 mkhs
mkhs's picture

How many sock puppets included?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:12 | 3650350 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

We know more about this guy in a couple of days than we know about Obama in 5 years.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:12 | 3650351 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

What I find interesting/disturbing is that many in the US media and government are proclaiming that he is guilty of passing secrets to "the enemy"...yet, the secrets he passed along where passed to a journalist and the people of the US and world. This to me suggests that many in the media and government view journalists and the population as a whole, as the enemy.

When a government makes it illegal to disclose illegality within the government, that government has lost the right to govern and must be replaced by any means necessary. If the people are the enemy of the government, then the government must be the enemy of the people.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:28 | 3650432 machineh
machineh's picture

The State vs. the People -- this book was written before 9/11, and proved prophetic.

Wolfe and Zelman enumerate the 14 characteristics of historical police states. The U.S. now meets nearly every one of them.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:37 | 3650469 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

"Our Enemy the State" - Albert Jay Nock.

And conversely, "we", the people are the enemy of the state.

The MSM (American Pravda for those who remember the 50's), is wholly dependent

on the government, beginning with broadcast spectrum.

All their advertisers are hooked into the corporate welfare system in some manner or another.

The 'free press" is another fictiion in this country.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:37 | 3650909 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Passing secrets to the enemy by way of the media.

The enemy that sees / reads the media.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:14 | 3650361 Dr. Grover Visicool
Dr. Grover Visicool's picture

Curious to see if the gov't "disappears him" by simply choosing not to prosecute him or seek to have him returned to the US. I can imagine his popularity in the media will subside pretty quickly if they simply ignore him.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:17 | 3650373 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture


In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell


But the more important question is WHY?

Why always do those of government fear the truth, prevent the truth, silence the truth?

Because they and all they do are a lie. A lie covering theft and disguising murder.

The truth is, they live off of us while they also fear us and that truth reveals the absurdity of needing and fearing them, the pathetic liars, cons, thieves that they are.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:27 | 3650387 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I see very few US TV journalists pushing back or asking the right questions of the US authorities they interview.

The only commendable exception I know of, is Alex Wagner of MSNBC. Go Alex!

None (except maybe Wagner) are in the Tim Russert league. Using his legal training, he could 'depose & cross-examine' his guest like none other. Maybe too well. Tomorrow is the 5 yr anniversary of his sudden death. RIP.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:37 | 3650468's picture

Whatever skills Russert may have had, he did not use them in pursuit of truth.


Ron Paul & Tim Russert on Meet The Press - Full Interview 12-23-07

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:40 | 3650484 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Kirk, what makes you think these TV "journalists" have any agenda other than staying on their talking points and thereby preserving their positions/paychecks?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:56 | 3650537 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

If you are looking for journalism, stop watching CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX, MSNBC, CNBC, NBC and the rest of the MSM alphabet soup of government approved propaganda.

"Politicians and the media have conspired to infantilize, to dumb down, the American public. At heart, politicians don't believe that Americans can handle complex truths, and the news media, especially television news, basically agrees."
Tom Fenton, CBS foreign correspondent

"Television is altering the meaning of "being informed" by creating a species of information that might properly be called disinformation... Disinformation does not mean false information. It means misleading information - misplaced, irrelevant, fragmented or superficial information - information that creates the illusion of knowing something, but which in fact leads one away from knowing."
Neil Postman

"The media serve the interests of state and corporate power, which are closely interlinked, framing their reporting and analysis in a manner supportive of established privilege and limiting debate and discussion accordingly."
Noam Chomsky

The truth is out there...but you will not find it inserted in between 30 second commercials for toothpaste and i-phones.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:23 | 3650409 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Gotta wonder how many Goldman moles within PRISM are siphoning off business data from companies. Makes you wonder about the BLS leaks, now even perfect security is irrelevent. Corporate espionage takes a giant leap forward.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 13:40 | 3650693 BattlegroundEur...
BattlegroundEurope2011's picture

That is what really pisses me off about the whole thing.  With over 140,000 agents with "snooping" rights you bet ppl are getting rich out of this data.


Wed, 06/12/2013 - 12:25 | 3650417 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

What I find truly incredulous about this whole affair is the government stance on treasonous activities.

Its perfectley OK for the government to illegally spy, un-warranted on any citizen it so chooses, therfore itself comitting a treasonous activity, but,

When an insider points this out, he is deemed person-non-grata and is guilty of treason by aiding the enemy??????

Aye, been said before but worth repeating, we are going to hell in a hand cart unless we stop this gross over step of unconstitutional government bullshit.

This is beyond insane, this is the realm of unpossible.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:01 | 3650769 Chump
Chump's picture

I don't know why, but I've been shocked by the generally blase attitude most of my fellow countrymen have had towards all this.  What should be a true lightbulb moment for the population is being met with...shrugs.  "The only people who should be worried are the people with something to hide," so on and so forth.

At this point the U.S. government (and really every government) can get away with literally anything, so long as the supply chain is maintained.  When it breaks I'm going to have very little sympathy for anyone.

After the SHTF, what's the ZH greeting from afar so I know you're not a zombie?

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:07 | 3650803 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


After the SHTF, what's the ZH greeting from afar so I know you're not a zombie?

"Fuck you, Bernanke!"

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 14:09 | 3650812 Chump
Chump's picture

PERFECT.  Duly noted.

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