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Snowden: Patriot Or Traitor? America Responds
"I'm neither traitor nor hero. I'm an American," is how Snowden describes himself to the South China Morning Post, but, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released today, more Americans see the NSA Whistleblower as "Patriot" than "Traitor." Some 23 percent of those surveyed said former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden is a traitor while 31 percent said he is a patriot. Another 46 percent said they did not know.
As Reuters reports, the Reuters/Ipsos poll finds 35 percent of those surveyed said Snowden should not face charges while 25 percent said he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
The confusion reigns as some 45 percent of those surveyed say the program is acceptable under some circumstances, while 37 percent say it is completely unacceptable though only 6 percent say they have no objections to the program.
Source: Reuters
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Was this all another false flag psyop?
I wouldn't rule it out.
Everything ("scandals") seemed to escalate from the first Benghazi hearings onward. Maybe it's just another page from Rules For Radicals cookbook. If they corner you on one scandal give them ten more so they can't concentrate on just one. Smell test probelms on all of it.
That's funny because I was thinking the exact same thing. Just overwhelm and confuse system.
Yep....I first thought things were odd when they all of a sudden "found' those 3 girls locked away for 10 years in Ohio the day of the first Benghazi hearings which the media made the "News Story Of The Day" instead of the hearings.
Patriotism is supporting your country always -- and your government when they deserve it. Mark Twain
Forty-five percent think that PRISM is acceptable.
In a demoracy (Or a Constitutional Republic), you the Government you deserve.
interesting polls
he says he's an American, and he's right. Those voting him ''traitor'' arent Americans. They just happen to live in the United States.
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
-Voltaire
reuter's poll? that's the first problem. what does the public cunnilingus display on the nsa/dhs by the senate hearing committee yesterday say? i heard "internet security for our bank accounts". so it's all worth it. no? plus, how many tax dollars have been allocated to the stenographer's pastry allowance and those ballsucking sycophants in the audience? my question is whether R2D2 milkowski or feinstein (how would you like her for your grandmother?) or i can't come out of the closet because i'm from montana tester were in defensive or offensive mode while reading their scripts...
Henceforth, there will be no more elections. Only Rueters polls.
Seriously no shit...
~~~
I'd have more faith in a Pravda poll...
I would have guessed this mystery would have been more easily decoded by the ZH audience (in particular on on all the web) only less quickly than Bernanke creates "money".
Using all the scandals to ram immigration down our throats.
It's all about the illusion......time to breakout the handcuffs.
Rubio.....up yours.
McCain.....screw you.
Graham....give us your cell phone records you pimp.
Boenher.....find someplace to die.
Obama.....go to hell.
I don't think we're stickelers for form around here at ZeroHedge, but please, if you must ...
Bernanke.....fuck you.
This is a good list. Don't forget about Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer et al...pretty much everybody in the Obongo Regime...bureaucrats...John Roberts and all but two or three of the SCOTUS clowns...etc...etc...
FUCK THEM ALL!
I am unable to comprehend how a government that needs unlimited surveillance of their citizens for security reasons thinks it is a good idea to invite in more immigrants. Wouldn't the secure thing be to deport all non-citizens and even some citizens?
Their is an agenda at play here...another smoke & mirror show with bits of truth and lies mixed in to confuse us.
.
Something doesnt exactly add up.
.
'They' are smarter than you & I think...
Congress consistently passes bills that have fewer than 5% support in the public. We call that representation?
"was this another false flag psyop?"
we'll know for sure when they survey that question
no, they call it campaign funding
An excuse for more surveillance and more control and more tyranny.
there are many folks that already knew about this, i personally just did not know it was called PRISM, all he did was wake up some of the MSM, but if history is any indicator, this story will lose steam as soon as we have a Monica, Britney or disaster to distract the sheep.
Gold bitchez..
Seriously no shit... I'd have more faith in a Pravda poll...
I surprised that not more consider PRISM or NSA spying to be "OK". The vast majority has no idea what is going on besides what Aunt Suzy told cousin Rhianna at Sunday School last week. They don't watch the news or read the papers (or books) or are students of history and historical patterns.
Someone on ZH is always knocking polls they don't agree with but they usually end up accurate. Out of curiosity I've been talking to folks - UPS workers, guys painting house, financial advisor, friends, etc about their reaction and in a very affluent county with newspapers, talk radio, local news, internets, etc....most were clueless, misinformed or lost in Conspiracy Land.
"They're opening my mail/ I hear a click on my phone /I heard they track us through glasses and a secret recorder" "It's for the good of the nation/ we need to fight terrorists / they wouldn't do anything bad, etc" "Yeah, I've heard about it - taxes or something?" So yeah, I think the poll is probably dead on.
This is why i don't bother talking to most people, because i know eventually it will come back as some twisted and bizarre rumor, most people have no idea what I'm talking about to begin with, pepper in some crazy, stupid and/or a little malice and suddenly a completely rational and fact based analysis twists into pointless or damaging thought lightning.
re: james cole on Voltaire:
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.
Voltaire had to spend three years in exile in London due to his opinions
I like this poll better:
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/election/2013/06/10/whats-your-view-on-edwa...
Still MSM, but this one shows 69.5% think Snowden is a Patriot, 30.5% think he's a traitor. It's still open, too - go vote.
How about a ZH poll?
How about no fucking hack polls at all [on Constitutional matters]?
How about reserving polls to the realm of Dancing with the fucking stars?
How about not spying on people, and, everytime you decide you want to usurp power, you don't use your cronies to publish an op-ed in the NYTimes, Washington Post, or on Reuters newsfeeds and slather CNN, Fox, & MSNBC with a bunch of fucking bullshit?
does anyone but me get a pop up error when they try to up arrow something semi controversial?
like mr sawyer here?
No, but I got one on yours. I voted you up for testing purposes only.
I clicked the down arrow on him and it worked.
Assuming user error at this point.
yeah, i got a pop-up, said NSA sumthinorother, which then morphed into a camera lense and appeared to snap a photo of me....i got my middle finger up just in time
I'd like a poll as to what America will look like in 10 years time.
Like a bad case of pink sock.
Damn shame we didn't educate this generation on how bad the USSR sucked.
Anyway.....coming to a theater near you unless a couple people standup. It won't come from anyone under 25.
"How about no fucking hack polls at all [on Constitutional matters]? How about reserving polls to the realm of Dancing with the fucking stars?"
Fucking bingo!
The NSA & CIA have no charter from THE PEOPLE to spy on them. In fact its the opposite...
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
The above does not read like it authorizes the federal government to search or seize or demand that private companies search & seize as their partner without probable cause.
Unless of course, the entire population are criminal suspects to them ;-)
It points to centralized paranoia.
Couldn't be much clearer than that, could it nmewn?
~~~
Somebody, [commenting on the 'stasi' state of affairs], yesterday something to the effect of "How the hell did this happen to a country like this?"... I answered... "Well, I could tell you, but I'd probably get kicked off this blog for telling you" [which, of course, received a lot of downvotes ~ ostensibly on account of 'assumptions' by the pre-crime unit crew]...
Anyway ~ my answer would have been 'POLLS'...
For the record... I personally like the Constitution as it was written more than 2 centuries ago... I don't like EVERYTHING in it, but most of the important stuff I like [& I'm willing to abide by the rest]... I liked ZH in the same way before... I liked The Fight Club... I didn't like all the comments contained WITHIN Fight Club, but as long as everyone was playing by an agreed upon set of rules, then that was OK by me... Then things changed... WHY?... In essence... POLLS [only this one was a silent poll, conducted by a minority, who only bothered to publish the outcome as if it were a black & white issue which implies a unanimous verdict]...
~~~
But hey ~ as Pure Evil will gladly point out... 'IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS'...
I think the Articles of Confederation were much better. The US Constitution was a stalking horse for the Hamiltonians.
Confederation would have been 12 separate tribes.
The United States is the New Israel of Prophecy.
Unfortunately, the tribe of Judah hates the Lost Tribes of Israel.
Perhaps one reason the tribe of Judah could not let the Lost Tribe Mormon leader Romney win the 2012 election, and instead supported the illegitimate Non Natural Born Citizen Obama fraud.
And the Lost Tribes of Israel have mixed views on the tribe of Judah.
The traitor side is very close to the % of people working for .gov. Hmm!
Polls are a way of conditioning the "plebs" that we live in a democracy ….you know that two wolves and a sheep thing. How about this fucking poll,,, What form of government do we have? HAHAHAHA
ZH is fucking awesome.
Oh wait, that's not what you meant is it? ;)
I would express it thusly: a republic gets what you give it; a democracy gets what it deserves.
I am Chumbawamba.
You Certianly are Chumbawamba.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chumbawamba
Removed.
Maybe they were confused by the question...there is a Prism Beer...and I support it.
http://prismbeer.com
" "News Story Of The Day" instead of the hearings."
... AND THEN story of the day quickly went to black guy in McDonalds who saw one of the girls screaming or whatever.
... AND THEN story of the day went to MdDonalds giving the unlikely "hero" a life time supply of Big Macs!
Nothing like the thought of a lifetime of FREE Big Macs to distract the hungry mases from the more important issues...like the suffering those poor women esperienced in extended captivity.
Single/double distraction. These psy ops guys are good. MSM one of their most potent weapons - the narcotic of the masses.
There is a book by C.S. Lewis entitled the "The Screw Tape Letters". Passage in the book where Satan distracts a guy from thoughts of an Almighty God.and Saviour by placing a ham sandwich on the park bench where guy. Guy sees the sandwich sitting next to him, completely forgets what he was thinking about, and stuffs his face.
The girls weren't found, one of them was trying to escape the house and got the attention of a neighbor, who went to help. I first heard of the story while watching BBC on PBS. I don't think BBC was trying to bury the Bengazi hearings.
brute force false flag attacks?
Everything published by the mainstream media is under very tight control and censorship.
Consequently, why did the mainstream media publish Edward Snowden's story? Did he really reveal anything new and/or secret? It is not a big secret that both Google and Facebook are in bed with NSA.
So, what else is new? Either
1. Somebody is building Snowden's credibility using him at a later date for releasing some misinformation and/or it is a beginning of a very important information diversion campaign or
2. There is some discord and disunity at the top of the ruling oligarchy
After all, Wikileaks has made a lot of publicity apparently leading to nowhere, however, it was a skillful and deliberate information campaign diverting international attention from the US/NATO 'Arab Spring' operations. I suspect the Snowden's affair is also a diversion campaign in progress.
There are always factions fighting against other factions for the Top of the Pyramid.
I just read these posts after I posted.... same as it ever was.
FUCK IT! WILL DO IT LIVE!
They know that it's harder to see the knife they'll use to kill you when it's pointing straight at you.
I hate to be the one to 'go there', but its a common elephant tactic in a donkeys second term.
It could be a distraction for Benghazi, but as I ponder on it, I'm wondering if it's not intentionally building momentum for a failed government at the top, so that when the collapse come, it's blamed on gov't and not those actually responsible upstream.
I still can't shake the Benghazi feeling, though.
First Petraeus, and now the #2. Something pretty fucking big happened there, at this point I have to imagine it's something so big it would guarantee a loss of the current presidency and any chance HRC has at it in 2016. I'd caught wind of a conspiracy theory that I thought was whacked that the white house/SoS were funding the failed kidnapping to keep the news that we were arming AQ in Syria from getting out, and I dismissed it as whacked, but now I'm not so sure. Iran contra updated for the twenty-teens?
There is more going on here than we have the information to come to the proper conclusions to. Mostly anectdotal and circumstantial eveidence which is the way the higher powers like it.
On the other hand, none of this is really new, but it's just more visible now. The NSA has been spying on Americans since 1945 (Project SHAMROCK and Project MINARET). FISA came about because of the prior abuses, especially in the 1970's; the Bush administration relaxed the chains on the NSA, but they were working on analyzing domestic data in the Clinton era (see ThinThread). I suspect the recent events have more to do with:
Yeah, something happened with Benghazi; otherwise Petraeus and Clinton wouldn't both have gotten Good Reasons Not To Show Up for their first rounds of questioning. But, I don't think it's tied to Snowden any deeper than that the administration is overworking the intelligence services. Not a full coincidence of two wholly independent fuck-ups, but rather a symptom of overreach in the abstract.
Either way, the right solution is the same: rein in and refocus the intelligence services and reduce the MIC. There clearly is a problem, even if not a dark conspiracy centered on some godforsaken nowhere in Libya.
Dear Pending Benghazi WhistleBlower: Please take your cue from E. Snowden and proceed promptly...
IRS whistleblower, etcetera ....
'Son of Ghazi' was a M.....d Black Ops event.
Revenge for CIA gun-running to Syrian islamist terrorist rebels as a danger to Israel ?
This poll is already skewed by the sample. Anyone here take part?
.
.
deleted
It's a scam .... to secure paid leave status !
If it's a psyop for distraction, they must be getting desperate for distractions to cut loose some of these monsters... Perhaps the old distractions are no longer working.
Or perhaps they're trying to hide a particularly big monster.
Thats what I think it is, distraction. Obama wants two things more than anything else in my opinion. First he wants a Middle East united under the Muslim Brotherhood, which leads us to Benghazi where arms were being funneled to who needed them. Second, he desperately wants to neuter all conservative (not Republican) opposition in this country using his Immigration legislation. You legalize 10 to 20 million illegals and through chain migration you bring another 50 to 100 million new "Press D" voters and you change the political face of the US. I think the evidence seen on how the IRS was targeting conservative groups might support this. Gun bans would also be easier to implement once the neutering is complete.
The NSA disclosure directly impedes the ability of the US government to to obtain cooperation of foreign governments, unlike the IRS and DoJ disclosures, where are primarily a domestic issue.
I'm gonna say no. Something this big is to hard to steer in the direction you want.
I'm guessing he has a nice big bag of poo. I think he let a bit out..and he's going to let the politicians and thugs hyperventilate, call HIM a traitor and generally show,their collective asses.
The he's going to squeeze out a big steamer to show how absolutely criminal and treacherous the entire gov is. I think it will be so well timed and placed, so glaring, stark and undeniable it will bring it ALL to a crash. I think we will be neck deep in chaos by Friday.
Or, he'll get his face blown off. That has other consequences, too. Since I think he probably put his eggs in other baskets, too.
You could be right. For me, too much happened too quickly with nothing to go by but what our comprimised news media tells us. I'll stay in "I Don't Believe, Trust No One" mode until things make more sense to me.
I think you're wrong, I think a happy politician is one who lays low as long as they can to not open that can of worms. When anyone (mostly reporters), scrutinizes politicians, politicians get nervous about losing their job and have to turn to juggling instead of politicking.
Dude, I'd up-vote your description regardless if I agree... and I happen to agree.
The inside oil on 9/11?
NSA hiding the truth about 9-11 Inside Job ?
Presumably NSA would have learned more about the Inside Job than any other Investigative branch of Government.
yes, but they insist that their dog ate the report that they had written about the matter
I'm curious what you think he could release that would cause chaos? The American public has witnessed so much utter bullshit in the last decade that I can't imagine what "the big one" would be. Of course, my lack of imagination doesn't mean you're wrong, far from it.
IRS targetting individuals and groups based on politics.
President killing Americans without charge or trial.
Supreme Court "affirming" government's right to force citizens to buy a product.
Regulatory targetting of businesses and industries with the goal of bankrupting them.
Example after example of money laundering, fraud, contempt of court, and on and on by large banks without a single charge brought against anyone.
The TSA, nuff said.
And now, we know, not just suspect, that the government is recording literally everything you say, type, post, and send digitally.
And...crickets. Nothing from the general public except more of the R vs. D bullshit. My opinion is that as long as there is food on the store shelves and whatever the "Reality" Show du jour is flickering on the tube, everything is hunky dory for 98% of the population. They may gripe and moan, but they won't get chaotic until they can't eat.
I would love to be wrong on this.
Oh, I don't know, Let me see.
Conclusive facts of a small ME nation getting 19 pattsies to pseudo fly planes into buildings(and film it while it was happening) in coordination with the dual passport owners over here might just cause a problem or two.
I think that would be the least likely to spark anything, in my opinion. Conclusive evidence means nothing to the various apologists that would parse and destroy it immediately upon its release. And we're talking about evidence of something that a lot of people wouldn't believe even if they saw it in real-time...
Let me put it this way: not one father, husband, son or boyfriend has strangled a TSA agent for groping his toddler, wife, girlfriend, or mother. Not a single household refused entry to the storm troopers going door to door in Boston, without warrants or even reasonable suspicion. So...what? Evidence is released as you say, rinsed and sanitized within minutes, and that's supposed to get us off our asses? No way.
Just as a side note, don't think I'm separating myself from "the public." You don't see me leading any charges or marching on Capitol Hill. I'm as much of a coward as anyone else. RIP Joe Stack, you shame me utterly every day I do nothing but comment on a website.
@g'kar, did you say "was"? ;-)
Okay....Is...But that depends on your definition of what "is" is. :-]
Put him on paid leave .... like the IRS cunt .... being a PSO (public servant oligarch) .... has it's perks ?
Was this all another false flag psyop?
Yes, and it is meant to discourage the people from revolting against the regime. After all, who's going to do anything when everything you do is monitored?
That's the message they want to get out to the people: Don't try anything, because we are watching you and we will kill you before you can do a damn thing about it and then we will say you were a disgusting pedophile that deserved to be killed without a trial and all the people will cheer for what a wonderful job the government did in killing you.
"Another 46 percent said they did not know."
Are there really that many people on Prozac in the USA?
No, there aren't. This poll is total propaganda. ZH needs to rise above posting this kind of stuff.
Those are the smart 46% -- the ones who aren't creating a trail of statements that will be held against them later.
Keep in mind, after the Bolsheviks took power, they began prosecuting people for violations of Bolshevik laws prior to the October Revolution.
If you don't think that you're speaking on the record or that somehow polling companies can't provide your identity, you haven't been paying attention.
Exactly my thought. Was this poll via Skype, Facebook or Pony Express? I think you can safely put the missing votes in the win column.
Rothschild [Reuters]... nuff said... Y'all like 'polls' so much... Here's a poll...
~~~
Seems to me there's been a lot of REUTERS bullshit on this site in the past few weeks... Let's do a poll to see who thinks ZH has been bought out by Rothschild...
Goddam right Francis.
The good times couldn't last.
No, there may not be that many people on prozac in the country, but there are that many people on either: prozac, american idol, dancing with whatever the fuck, or the dole. Name your idiocy, there is either a TV channel or a gubmint program for it.
Flouridated water from birth...
The stats make perfect sense if you know how to read them. No confusion or contradiction.
The people who think he's a hero, also think that he should not be charged and that the program is unacceptable. This is an undifferentiated group.
The group that thinks that the Program is acceptable, is a differentiated group. Only a subset thinks that he is a traitor and should be prosecuted.
QED. Here all week. Try the salad.
46 percent thought it is too soon to know the truth.
It would be interesting to see the results if the red team puppet were currently occupying the White House.
They should ask "should he divorce Kim Kardasian?" to get a feel for the profile of the respondents.
Touche'
douche'
Red puppet team polls as to the wars, debt, deficits and unemployment rates we have in the US these days would be interesting too.
Why would a majority then think Prism is acceptable? Makes no sense like most polls.
Because they are too freaking stupid to even grasp what Prism does.
As an example of how this stuff is used as propaganda, notice the use of red and green.
Green is good right? So I should go with green no?
NLP = Neuro Linguistic Programming: A propaganda technique using subliminal cues to confuse and influence the target of your propaganda. (the public) Most people are effectively continually hypnotized.
The Presidents speeches are one long NLP script strung together.
Most times too obvious to be effective but that's just me.
Obviously someone's buying the shit he sells.
I have all of Bandler and Grinder's books which I found online. I am sure it is all required Black Ops reading.
They say Art of,War and The Prince are Black Ops bible study
Check out The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Set aside the controversy of who wrote it... somebody wrote it and it's one hell of a recipe for nefarious control.
Oh yeah. I've read em. Fake or not, TPTB obviously liked them enough to work them into the play book. Those used to look pretty silly when I first looked at them way back when. Not laughing anymore, though
from 2008...
http://www.pennypresslv.com/Obama%27s_Use_of_Hidden_Hypnosis_techniques_...
Alright, so let's have a look at the master's book:
"My voice will go with you", by Milton Erickson
http://ebookbrowse.com/my-voice-will-go-with-you-the-teaching-tales-of-m...
WB7,
I notice you use the colors Red and Green in your graphics.
So . . . . .
Care to respond?
Nothing I do in my graphics is in accident.
As you know green commonly denotes risk on and red is risk off in trading culture.
You will also notice my avatar is red which makes it very easy to spot it in a comment thread.
In Asian culture, red typically denote auspicious events and good luck.
Here is fascinating reading on the emotional significance of color: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lüscher_color_test
Color is cultural.
That's why I changed to the big eye, easier to spot.
I use green in my avatar... Just like MDB... We both have the same 'agenda' to draw as many 'red' arrows as possible... weird...
You changed your eye to make it easier to find your avatar?
Cool.
Right, red is for boys and green is for space aliens. It's all gender and/or interdimensional conditioning. The bastards.
What exactly is PRISM should be a poll question.
Would love to see respondent selections.
That would put said poll into context.
Poll question: do you prefer prism or prison?
given the NSA's economic incentive to save PRISM perhaps they helped the polling?
That's easy...just ask the question in a way to get the sheep to bleet like you want them to.
Try this....
Would you find PRISM acceptable if we put Kiefer Sutherland in charge at the NSA?
Easy..
Exactly.. Why the "under some circumstance " qualifier?
Not - is it acceptable?
Vagueness allows the subject to imagine what circumstances required for him to allow such an intrusion . (Bonus points if the subject Urinate on himself well thinking about those Scenarios)
While distracting from a more Pointe question about the constitutionality of such a program.
They polled just the right people determined by Prism?
I don't get it either William. That's where my mind goes like yours. Conspiracy.
They should throw him in PRISM .... then throw away the key !
"Thank you sir, may I have another?" -45% in last poll
Is this a trick question? The guy should have a constellation named after him.
I was listening to that jackass Boehner earlier, and got the dry heaves.(talking about what a traitor Snowden is) He is a prime example why people can't stand politicians. He's a two faced douch bag.
A constellation of Black Holes would be best.
Isn't half of the US population getting a gubbermint handout?
Is their a chance he maybe be a patsy? (Just so we can cover all the bases)
.
We all know the documents, the spying, the lying, etc...is true...thats not the concern.
But, you got to think like 'they' do, so...could he be a fall guy for someone/something. If he's still breathing in the next few weeks...that may give us a clue.
Did somebody pay a fee to get that poll from Reuters a few nanoseconds before the rest of us?
+1 okay. that....was fucking funny.
Patriot or traitor?
No.
What surprises me most is that people find this whole thing surprising.
I am getting sick of the smug-ass 'we already knew this' shit.
In an abusive relationship there comes a point of saying 'no mas'. What kind of idiot or jerk says 'well that's nothing new, ho-hum have another Cheeto' then?
It's like the yawning cynic or faux nihilist at the college party who, if pressed, ends up crying on the back step.
Pull your head out of your ass. Most people don't get a kick out of mistrusting all authority, and yet most people DID in fact know or suspect this kind of thing, but they are STILL pissed and offended when the extent and the lies about it are rubbed in their faces.
There has been more time and many many more lies told in that time, particularly by a certain Constitutional law professor who claimed high ethics and transparancy.
And, really, who is acting surprised? I am not seeing surprise. I am seeing rage.
What does piss in corn flakes taste like?
Here's the story in case you aren't in the loop. A couple weeks ago there were people going around telling dumb@sses that the .gov spies on citizenry. That was two weeks ago, they were labeled "nuts" and "conspiracy theorists" but now, with the current events. A bunch of stupid fuctards come out saying "didn't everyone already know this???"
So basically people changed from "you're a stupid conspiracy theorist" to "didn't everyone already know this???"
Can you guess which group you come off as belonging to?
"So basically people changed from "you're a stupid conspiracy theorist" to "didn't everyone already know this???""
~~~
Welcome to the "walk a mile in francis_sawyer boots" on the subject of cheesepopes... ["oh but that's different" ~ rolls eyes]...
True, and I hear nihilism is exhausting.
It's not even an ethos.
yes
No down arrow here, Jim in MN, but this stuff has been known for so long that only the willfully ignorant could possibly claim "I didn't know." Carnivore, Echelon, and Total Information Awareness (TIA) were programs reported on and largely ignored by the mass media, but in the alternative media, these programs were completely exposed. Maybe being a civil libertarian in the tech sector, I was paying more attention, but most everything is out there in the public domain if people care to look.
I'm not saying don't do anything, to the contrary, now is the time to stand up if ever there was one. I'm glad Snowden has ripped off the thin veneer of legitimacy the US has used to bully the world, and I hope that this empowers a 9/11 whistleblower. That's what we need.
Only a small percentage of average people read the Establishment newspapers that may have earlier mentioned these spying programs,
and an even smaller percentage of average people read the alternative media that earlier wrote about these spying programs.
For most people, alternative media is Internet TV and Movies, YouTube.
Pretty soon, the average person is going to be starving (give it a few years) and at that point, I will revisit your thesis.
There is often a vast difference between what one actually knows and what one thinks they know.
For an Urban Redneck, you seem like a fairly wise guy - and I don't mean that in the pejorative sense.
Jim, (love your posts btw)
And Angrygrrrl below.
psychologically there is a big difference between Everybody Individually Knowing, but not "Officially Recognizing" and agreeing you all know it.
Something like The father cheats on the wife, both know he cheats but the family life continues "normally" but if the kids in front of both of them acknowledge the cheating they "Officially" have to recognize it. And Family life cannot continue being "Normal"
That's where we are.
As I wondered in a comment on the German reaction, Now the Chinese have to "Officially" acknowledge it and respond.
It matters not that both Germany and China already knew everything, Now all their respective citizens know too.
We may have reached that juncture when we go from "Everybody knowing it personally, but not acknowledging it to each other" To the state of "Everybody knowing it and having to officially acknowledge to each other that each other knows"
Commonly called "The Emperor is Naked" moment.
Things will be interesting.