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Ron Paul: "Obama’s Syria Policy Looks A Lot Like Bush’s Iraq Policy"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Dr. Ron Paul via The Free Foundation,

President Obama announced late last week that the US intelligence community had just determined that the Syrian government had used poison gas on a small scale, killing some 100 people in a civil conflict that has claimed an estimated 100,000 lives. Because of this use of gas, the president claimed, Syria had crossed his “red line” and the US must begin to arm the rebels fighting to overthrow the Syrian government.

Setting aside the question of why 100 killed by gas is somehow more important than 99,900 killed by other means, the fact is his above explanation is full of holes. The Washington Post reported this week that the decision to overtly arm the Syrian rebels was made “weeks ago” – in other words, it was made at a time when the intelligence community did not believe “with high confidence” that the Syrian government had used chemical weapons.

Further, this plan to transfer weapons to the Syrian rebels had become policy much earlier than that, as the Washington Post reported that the CIA had expanded over the past year its secret bases in Jordan to prepare for the transfer of weapons to the rebels in Syria.

The process was identical to the massive deception campaign that led us into the Iraq war. Remember the famous quote from the leaked “Downing Street Memo,” where representatives of British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s administration discussed Washington’s push for war on Iraq?

Here the head of British intelligence was reporting back to his government after a trip to Washington in the summer of 2002:

“Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.”

That is exactly what the Obama Administration is doing with Syria: fixing the intelligence and facts around the already determined policy. And Congress just goes along, just as they did the last time.

We found out shortly after the Iraq war started that the facts and intelligence being fixed around the policy were nothing but lies put forth by the neo-con warmongers and the paid informants, like the infamous and admitted liar known as “Curveball.” But we seem to have learned nothing from being fooled before.

So Obama now plans to send even more weapons to the Syrian rebels even though his administration is aware that the main rebel factions have pledged their loyalty to al-Qaeda. Does anyone else see the irony? After 12 years of the “war on terror” and the struggle against al-Qaeda, the US decided to provide weapons to the allies of al-Qaeda. Does anyone really think this is a good idea?

The Obama administration promises us that this is to be a very limited operation, providing small arms only, with no plans for a no-fly zone or American boots on the ground. That sounds an awful lot like how Vietnam started. Just a few advisors. When these few small arms do not achieve the pre-determined US policy of regime change in Syria what is the administration going to do? Admit failure and pull the troops out, or escalate? History suggests the answer and it now appears to be repeating itself once again.

The president has opened a can of worms that will destroy his presidency and possibly destroy this country. Another multi-billion dollar war has begun.

 


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Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:16 | Link to Comment whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

Oh no, can't be. Obama ran on the platform of "not being like Bush".  Ron Paul must be wrong.

/sarc for those of you who confuse easily.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:46 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Obama promised...

They all promise!

I'll be surprised when they actually follow through. I'd even settle for no more promises.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

"The president has opened a can of worms that will destroy his presidency and possibly destroy this country. Another multi-billion dollar war has begun."

Way too late to stop this shitshow from reaching it's logical and foregone conclusion already.

Just on a personal note however... if he really wants to bring Syria to it's knees so badly...  wouldn't it be quicker and less bloody just to send his Wall Street buddies over there to finish them off?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:49 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

What do you think he is preparing the way for? Democracy (haaa, haaa, haaa, haaa haaa....).

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:20 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

We'll sell them all the freedom they can afford. ;>)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:40 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You will have Demockracy, you will like it, and you will beg for more.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:59 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

We found out shortly after the Iraq war started that the facts and intelligence being fixed around the policy were nothing but lies...But we seem to have learned nothing from being fooled before.

That's not true, a majority of Americans are against the arming of Syrian rebels. 

70 percent of Americans polled said they oppose doing so

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57589693/most-americans-oppose-armin...

Even the Iraq war barely had a majority.

Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47-60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval

.gov isn't interested in the common folks' opinions. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:46 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I had the pleasure of eating dinner with my parents tonight.  After the pleasantries I opened with "So Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama wants to provide weapons to rebels in Syria.  But its not like the Rebels are Muslim Extremists or anything!"

My dad asked "What are they (the rebels)?"

"Muslim extremists!"

"We are waging a War on Terror at the same time as supplying weapons to Muslim Extremist Rebels..."

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:48 | Link to Comment piliage
piliage's picture

Yep. We are killing them in Afghanistan and Iraq and supporting them in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and Syria. I guess the theory is to stop Iran gaining control of Syria in the great Shiite Sunni game, but frankly, our hypocrisy stinks to high-heaven.

But I'm sure our crack State Department has everything under control....

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 06:05 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

If anyone doesn't believe that the country is run by the military, take another look. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 11:39 | Link to Comment whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

They will be run by a former JPM/GS Rothschild crony soon enough.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:35 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

This Shi'ite vs. Sunni thingy is part of a grand divide-n-conquer strategy being employed by what is called The West.

Just like the Protestants were set up against Catholics and vice versa by the ruling elites of Europe not that long ago.

It is not 'organic' if you know what I mean.

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:30 | Link to Comment El Diablo Rojo
El Diablo Rojo's picture

Even worse piliage - this administration will create exactly what it doesn't want, a new Persian empire.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:43 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

What is wrong with that? Much better than the current PAX.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:51 | Link to Comment Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Could be....although I think the odds are more tilted towards the establishment of a new Islamic Caliphate, versus a new Persian Empire. The former is considerably more dangerous than the latter.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:58 | Link to Comment fallout11
fallout11's picture

"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. Hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance. This new version is the past and no different past can ever have existed. In principle the war effort is always planned to keep society on the brink of starvation. The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either [fictional boogiemen], but to keep the very structure of society intact." - George Orwell, 1984.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:11 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

+1

 

.gov isn't interested in the common folks' opinions. -- James_Cole

 

And just what do we plan to do about it?

Damn it's late (just one more post dear, it's ZH), I'm tired, work's early, ain't nobody I know getting killed -- fuck it, I'll do something tomor... soon. Real soon.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:28 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Toady, George W was going to be the education president, remember. Events, gentlemen, events.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:36 | Link to Comment HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Notice that Education doesn't make it onto candidate's platform anymore?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:37 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

It would, if the student loan bubble had any room left to go.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:32 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

The big lie from W, for me anyway, was the 'no foreign entanglements' lie.

Barry has him beat by a country mile though... His campaign rhetoric was to completely reverse what W started, and he doubled down instead.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:57 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Not electing Ron Paul  - - -

another dumb mistake of the American people

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:29 | Link to Comment Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Ron Paul: the best president America never had.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:57 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Besides Chuck Norris

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:05 | Link to Comment Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Ron Paul is a chump magnet.

I don't understand why he gets so much face time on ZH ... he hasn't done fuck about anything, won't do fuck about anything - can't do fuck about anything ... nothing but a steady warm breeze of hot air.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:15 | Link to Comment Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Oh, look ... anonymous downraters. Ron Paul chumps too lazy and braindead to defend their man with words.

Click the red button, little monkeys, and move along.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:51 | Link to Comment Last_2_Sense
Last_2_Sense's picture

Get fucked dipshit. There, words.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 11:00 | Link to Comment auntiesocial
auntiesocial's picture

Obama. McCain. Paul. hello? anybody in there? no clear cut choice for the interest of American People and the American Economy?

let me guess, you are a fevered Bachmann supporter. 

 

RON PAUL! 2016. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 11:29 | Link to Comment tvdog
tvdog's picture

Anyone who attacks truth-tellers like Snowden or Paul is a shill for TPTB. It makes it real easy to tell.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 12:51 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

tvdog - we probably agree on RP, but I disagree with you about opposing opinions. To me this sounds too much like the global warming pushers who call those who disagree names. If your position is strong, it will hold up to disagreement and debate. RP can handle such attacks with ease. - - -

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Ron Paul has always understood that you can't lead people where they don't want to go. He saw his role as asking questions and providing education. Only now, after all these years, has his efforts started to take hold.

IMO - there will need to be a massive economic crash (with all the social turmoil that comes with it) before the American people might be motivated to wake up. Hopefully, they'll remember some of the things that Ron Paul has spoken about all these years. As a long time conservative Repub, I thought he was a 'kook'. Of course, I only knew what others told me about him, not the knowledge and philosophy behind his positions. Its never too late to learn, but most people need to feel enough pain before theyre willing to drop their old failed notions. Hopefully theyll follow Ron Paul's example and choose Liberty . . . . rather than be fooled into choosing tryanny.

RaceCarDiver - now you may not know this, but RP isnt a dictator (and wouldnt want to be one). What exactly do you think he can 'do' if it isnt supported by the American people ?  Or does he just wave a wand and make it all better ?  Even if he had been elected, he would have faced a great deal of opposition from those who live off the system as it is. If RP had been elected, it would only have been the first step - - - and an indicator that many more Americans had stepped out of the false 'left' versus 'right' paradigm.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:02 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Obama supporting the canabalistic, organ eating rebels in Syria brings new meaning tho America's "Hearts and Minds" interventionist foreign policy.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:39 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

sharp.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:57 | Link to Comment auntiesocial
auntiesocial's picture

this is the part where the sheeples collective short term memory loss kicks in...

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:15 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

This is a test, a test of the world's intelligence. They will keep pulling the same shit over and over again until we actually call them on it. Until then we are failing the test.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:47 | Link to Comment FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

This is some batsh*t crazy stuff. Getting involved in another war in the middle east. Sort of like jumping into the Vietnam/Cambodia conflict a couple of years after 1975. I wonder if Obama sleeps upside down and hanging by his feet?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

That was Valerie jarret.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:17 | Link to Comment pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

meet the new boss ... same as old boss ... boy did we get fooled ...

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:38 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

Who is this we you are speaking of?  

If you were fooled, read moar.  

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 06:55 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Tell me you didn't vote for Bush, if you voted. BTW, I'm politically agnostic.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:22 | Link to Comment Muddy1
Muddy1's picture

Bush:  "Weapons of mass destruction"

Obama:  "Chemical weapons"

The reality is that all chemical weapons are weapons of mass destruction, but not all weapons of mass destruction are chemical weapons.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:30 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

A Baathist regime bordering Iraq has wMD? Come on now.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:18 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We have always been at war with East Asia.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:48 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Or was it Eurasia/Oceania?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:18 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I'm thinking more of a Bosnia bomb-the-shit-out-of-anything-that-moves from the air type operation.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Nothing is going to happen in Syria. O'bummer is a fag Tawlker.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:22 | Link to Comment CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I'm thinking it's gonna be a drone war.

"The Obama administration promises us that this is to be a very limited operation, providing small arms only, with no plans for a no-fly zone or American boots on the ground."

Drones can be counted as small arms, right?  And if there's no no-fly zone, the drones can bomb the entire country back to the stone age.  And there won't be any boots on the ground, since the war will be fought from a nice, clean bunker somewhere on a US military base in another country.

Don't drone me, bro!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

+1

How terribly obvious, but of course you are Captain.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:23 | Link to Comment DawgAss
DawgAss's picture

FUCK HIM (The Magic Negro not, RP) AND EVERYONE IN DC!

A bunch of NO BALLS pricks and cunts, with few exceptions.

WAR, what's it good for" "NOTHING, ABSOUTELY NOTHING"

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:31 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

You missed a spot...

 

"WAR, what's it good for" "NOTHING, ABSOUTELY NOTHING" (except profits, pipelines, geo-strategic positioning for the next conquest, and big dick bragging rights).

 

There, all fixed up. Your welcome!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:00 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

don't forget - - - psychopaths enjoy hurting and killing people

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:39 | Link to Comment kurt
kurt's picture

say it again...

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:39 | Link to Comment monad
monad's picture

How do we arrest him? Before he kills again?
Bush Crime Family Drug Lords
Fuck the IRS

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Crtrvlt
Crtrvlt's picture

Multi-trillion

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:30 | Link to Comment erg
erg's picture

*shouting at Morton Downey Jr. circa 1988*

The CIA ships in the drugs!

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:36 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

And da cash is laundered through the big Fed member banks so everybody get their cut!
Booyah, as Cramer would say hitting the Wank-O-Matic skin slapping sounding button

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

What state is Mena in ?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     Mena? You've visited Kashmir? Trust me when I say this!  KNUCKLES knows his shit, and is well traveled.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Obama is just Bush '44.

FORWARD SOVIET!

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:03 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     You're lost in translation.  Chuck Walla

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:52 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Mena ARKANSAS.  Where two young boys were mysteriously and ruthlessly murdered.

Yen, Chuck is saying the Obama regime is an extension of the Bush regime.  Really, the Bush/Clinton dynasty has been in charge (one way or another) since about 1978.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:32 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     Let's keep this a trading sight. 

   We've all experienced loses. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:49 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

That must mean we get Jeb next time, maybe Chelsea after that.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 08:41 | Link to Comment monad
Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:33 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Meanwhile U.S. Rebels are re-categorized as Domestic Terrorists, put on watch lists and get audited..........

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:41 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Oh, they can't be that inconsistent, can they?

Nah....

 

Or like everybody's taken to that open collar with suit coat Islam-o-chic look, partially shaved 3 day old beard, the tower on top of the freedom tower looks like a minaret, can't read christian stuff in the military anymore...
Huh...
If I didn't know any better I'd think a game was afoot, Watson.
Thank God I know better. 

maniacal laughter

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:46 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Noticed that also. They all look like douchebag Hollywood producers with the no-tie look.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Republi-Ken
Republi-Ken's picture

The process was identical to the massive deception campaign that led us into the Iraq war

GIVE ME A BREAK.

This is nothing like the IRAQ War build up...nothing. Zippo.

There was deliberate threat of "mushroom cloud" in Iraq by Bush Cheney Rice and Rumsfeld.

Wow! are you people that forgetful after 10 years...or that stupid?

Or that blatantly intellectually dishonest?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:44 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

So you ate some sort of mushroom and everything turned cloudy? That explains it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:48 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Haven't seen you around these here parts of the interwebz in a while. Welcome back.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I think the current threat is something like, "Terrorists will rape your daughters." Not sure how that works, though.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:25 | Link to Comment CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Well, that's not a problem.  All your daughters have to do is piss on themselves, shit on themselves, vomit on themselves, say they have AIDS, or say they're on the rag.  Or if that fails, just ask the rapist if he will please stop.  That's a surefire way to defeat those terrrrrist rapists.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:14 | Link to Comment chubbar
chubbar's picture

"A female Al Jazeera correspondent, who is covering the terrorist activities from different cities in Syria for months, was quickly moved to Qatar, after one of the commanders of Al Nusra Front, Al-Qaeda affiliated terrorist group, raped her in Aleppo. Egyptian daily Al-Nahar reported that Ghada Oweis, Al Jazeera correspondent, has long been working alongside terrorist groups opposed to Bashar al-Assad in Aleppo to send reports to Qatari
network.

A few days ago on the invitation of one of the commanders of this Salafist group, she went to his office. Surprisingly however, the Al-Nusra militias did not allow her camera crews to enter the office.

And they took Ms. Oweis by force and told the crews to come back for interview tomorrow.

Al Jazeera correspondent was rushed out of Syria via Turkey, when it was discovered she was raped by the commander of Al-Nusra Front in Aleppo. She was transferred to Qatar later, she is emotionally in shock.

Returning to Qatar, Ghada Oweis demanded justice and asked the senior leaders of Al-Nusra group to punish this commander. Reportedly Al Jazeera is trying to prevent the reporter from affirming the news by ways of pressure and payments of huge amount of money to maintain the good image of the terrorists fighting in Syria."

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235014477-syria-al-nusra-leader-rapes-al-jazeera-reporter/

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

The "process" is the same, what is different is that Bush/Cheney had to do a "hard sell" on the American public. Obama doesn't have to sell America on arming the rebels because the majority of Americans do not care.

 

You wanna watch a "process" that has been repeated for hundreds of years? Take a few and watch this incredible film. It will explain how the White House and Washington D.C. was hi-jacked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIvaBOxHDj0&bpctr=1371525297

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:39 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

Really?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:19 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Hmmm . . . you believe an anti Jewish Nazi propaganda film from 1940 ?

There are plenty of criminals among various groups. They like to cause division among people.

IF the 99.9999% stopped fighting among themselves and got together, the criminals would be in deep trouble.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Let me guess.. This is a noble war with honorable intentions. Freaking idiot. These wars were planned long ago. You don't believe me? Listen to Wesley Clark in 2007.

http://youtu.be/Ha1rEhovONU

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I was looking for that Doc!  Thank you 10,000 times!!!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:37 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Perle....all the usual suspects. That policy hasn't changed one iota in 20+ years.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:41 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

No shit. I recall their handiwork from my younger, more active days.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:59 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The genius in he own mind? That one? Will skip the link.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 11:22 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

3 year old account with only 16 posts in the last 4 months with 13 occuring in the last month. I remember when we use to ask of how was the view of the Mediterranian at sunset, I guess we have to ask the poster how is the view of the Potomac now...(edit correted spelling)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:43 | Link to Comment diomedes71
diomedes71's picture

Pre-existing plan: check

Lame excuse to implement it: check

Psychopaths calling the shots: check

The marginal difference?  This time it didn't directly follow 9/11.  That is all.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:36 | Link to Comment kurt
kurt's picture

...fast forward past Syria, destination Iran, New 9/11 "False Flag Day": check

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:39 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

I seen a plaque hanging over a door in a high rise condo that read "I would kill for a Nobel Peace Prize", I guess the guy did it to tweak the new left neocon/libs.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.'

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:44 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

Yes, kinda like the hunter that goes bear hunting and gets mauled and then buttfucked by the bear, after he recovers he goes out with a vengence after the bear with the same result, recovers again and NOW THE GUY IS PISSED, slips into the woods in full camo with a huge gun, gets a tap on the shoulder, turns around and the bear say's "you know, I am beginning to think you like this"  

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Now do Behind Blue Eyes.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

We need to fucking take care of Syria and... no.. NO This is not like what George Bush did! UGH! Just listen to what I'm saying. This is different!  George Bush was a huge liar and war criminal [...]

- Every Hipster/douchebag Obamaworshiper across America.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:33 | Link to Comment kurt
kurt's picture

Or it might have spewed from a fetid orafice of an old asshole.

 

 

Just Say No to Syria

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:02 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

But war is an asshole magnet! Apologies to PJ ORoarke.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:40 | Link to Comment world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

In forgotten memory is the war crimes of HW Bush when the US gave Iraq posionus gas that Saddam used against the Kurds.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:40 | Link to Comment The Devil
The Devil's picture

I long for his soul but that man will not be in my domain.  Humans don't know what they missed.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:43 | Link to Comment sosoome
sosoome's picture

Looks more like Johnson's policies toward Viet Nam to me...

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Surging Chaos
Surging Chaos's picture

Tom Woods wasn't kidding when he said war was big government's best friend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN3EryUG0EA

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 08:23 | Link to Comment Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

War is in fact the true nurse of executive aggrandizement.

James Madison

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We were for al Qaida before we were against them. Now we are for them again. You just can't make this shit up.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:47 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Now we arm them with the good shit.............

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

They were armed with the good shit in Afghanistan back in the 80s too.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:50 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

"You just can't make this shit up."

 But they did!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:25 | Link to Comment Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

I think that was one of Hitlery Clinton's famous quotes back in 2006 - 2007.  "I was for the war before I was against it!"

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:09 | Link to Comment OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Thanks for the Hitlery Clinton remark. She scares the shit out of me. Listen to her cackle as she describes all-out war with Iran:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvhBoF_pCHo

 

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:47 | Link to Comment S5936
S5936's picture

Wacko

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:47 | Link to Comment S5936
S5936's picture

Wacko

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 08:21 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

These people are insane. And policy is not going to change until the collapse. From Hillary to Jim Baker, from Obama to Bush. They are all psychopaths.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:05 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

No that was current sec state notable dumbass john Kerry, when he was running for potus. Hillary is unfortunately not as dumb as Kerry.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:48 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I'm applying for a secretary job in their new offices in Qatar but I think I'll have a hard time wearing a burqa in that heat.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Wasy solution join the military and have them pay for your transgender operation.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Thoughtcriminal!  We are at war with Eastasia.  We have always been at war with Eastasia.  Report to Room 101 for reeducation, comrade Engali Dr. 1198726.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:44 | Link to Comment Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

The Al Quaida Division of the CIA is one of their best units. They do what they are told  -they're not very good soldiers-they are motivated by the spoils and plunders of war. They are oldiers of fortune  -they are paid well from the massive opium profits from Afghanistan. They guard and protect the opium harvest, get unlimited free heroin for their own use and to sell for profits. They rape, murder and terrorize their victims with enthusiam and efficiency. And if they get out of line and become a liabilty-we just kill them  -they are expendable. Like I said  -they are perhaps one of the top Divisions of the CIA. If they prevail in Syria, they will soon come to America for domestic missions. I look forward to them coming to Texas. There are still enough of us here with the spirit of freedom and Liberty in our hearts-to welcome their arrival. Enough of our women are armed, dangerous and know how to shoot a rifle.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:16 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The price of heroine goes up 10x when it crosses the border and leaves Afghanistan (supply/demand, don't you know).  So you know who is getting the biggest cut, not the farmers, not the ones who make the heroine, its the smugglers.  Karzai's brother, and the CIA, in other words.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:48 | Link to Comment Spanky
Spanky's picture

+1 You're wrong. Reality imitates art.

Silly... ah... whatever you are...

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:47 | Link to Comment topspinslicer
topspinslicer's picture

The obomba style is more like Hitler than the bushman

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:48 | Link to Comment wisefool
wisefool's picture

Fix the tax code and 90% of this B.S. stops. Specifically, Congress will have to prove the nessecity to the american people to engage in these conflicts because they will have to implement a real legitimate tax for it.

Or they could just not use tax money for war, and only use the money off the printing press. 

Little chance of either until people start waking up.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Why do you think they closed the gold window and eliminated the gold standard?  That is like taking the locks off the doors to your house to prevent robberies.

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:13 | Link to Comment SilverIsMoney
SilverIsMoney's picture

There goes the people's President... 

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:24 | Link to Comment spfoo
spfoo's picture

Wasn't it just five weeks ago that Carla Del Ponte form the UN stated that there were strong indications that the Syrian rebels had used chemical weapons e.g. sarin gas?

 

 

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:28 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes.

"“Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals,” Ms. Del Ponte said in an interview with Swiss-Italian television. “According to their report of last week, which I have seen, there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated.”

This was use on the part of the opposition, the rebels, not by the government authorities,” she added, speaking in Italian."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/world/middleeast/syrian-rebels-may-hav...

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:47 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

It's like actually living in the Twilight Zone.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 10:13 | Link to Comment Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Wait for the movie, the best ideas, and `things to be proud of`, are always in the movies, that is why I always get my opinions from the movies, all the `smarter` people watch, and believe, the movies, after all, if you can't believe your own eyes,,,what can you really believe?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment The Invisible Foot
The Invisible Foot's picture

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes. In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows." Major General Smedley Butler

 

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:41 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   No questions. What brings you're trading prowess, this fine day?

Mon, 06/17/2013 - 23:38 | Link to Comment ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Theyre called "rebels" when they get assisted by Nato, US, GB, etc...they get renamed as "Insurgents, and terrorists" when we invade them

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:03 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I am glad we chose the president who didn't like war.....  Whew....

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:27 | Link to Comment WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

The reason that the ambassador was killed (and this the real story) was because of the movement of chemical weapons from Libya to Syria.

All of these stories about the Syrian government using chem weapons are false flag events. How hard is it to take one uniform off and put another on?

We (America) have between 1500 and 2000 Americans fighting in Syria. That is from john Kerry. We all know that liars minimize their stories in order to lesson the impact of the story. It's a liars tactic designed to obfuscate and deflect. Don't worry, there are those of us who the BS voodoo doesn't work on, and see the package that lies are wrapped in for what they are.

This story is the reason for ALL of the other scandals coming out now. Iran Contra was Regeans albatross. Ill bet a case of FULL SAIL GOLDEN ALE on this horse.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 00:34 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Come on, this Zionism man. You think they pulled 9-11, built the worlds reserve paper currency and pay Brad Pitt top dollar to stop now?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 09:55 | Link to Comment Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

You can never quit riding Tigers.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:28 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Americans oppose supplying military aid to Syrian rebels, poll shows (AP)

Not that ``The one`` gives a fuck.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:01 | Link to Comment newengland
newengland's picture

Lord Dannatt of Britain speaks for its Armed Forces when he sides with Putin, and says this Syrian adventure is just plain wrong in all aspects, and Western politicians choose to forget the lessons of Afghanistan and Iraq.

O'bomba is owned by George Soros, the nazionist major Democrat funder whose own jewish father gave him to the Nazis to steal from jews, gentiles and others. 

Corporatists...fascists...are killing the world, for their own feudalism, and  monarchies, their hofjuden, vatican. The old boss, same as the new boss, and O'bomba is their latest pet, soon to be booted out of their clique.

Defy them or die.

There is no such thing as coincidence in high politics. All O'bomba's latest woes are because he has served his purpose, and now the nazionists want rid of him.

Operation Paperclip brought high ranking nazionists into the USA after WWII, and the Trilateral Commission aided by traitor Rockefeller are monopolists, contrary to the Constitution, and Declaration of Independence.

Provincial Americans lack worldly insight, and are used accordingly.

Dr Ron Paul included which is why he is best suited to lecturing the young who might be wiser in due course.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:23 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

My true understanding of history started with Operation Paperclip.

Feudalism really is the historical equivalent for what we are dealing with, here in the 21st century.  Instead of being tied to your land, though, you are tied to your debts.  National debt, and student loan debts, not (easily) dischargeable, for example. Debt slavery, baby.

Any time people get all sentimental about slavery I try to explain the present day predicament of debt slavery to them.  Once they understand they are slaves presently it gives them some much needed perspective.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:34 | Link to Comment newengland
newengland's picture

Lecture your students if you have any, not me. The problem with you upstarts is that you think everything is new when you first see it.

Not your money or blood, is it. Be grateful that you have the chance to learn, and show some respect for those who cleared the path for you. Do not presume to tell me, nor anyone of greater experience.

I am tied to my land. I do love my land. I do love my people, and respect patriots of any land. WWI was supposed to be the war to end all wars, and President Wilson declared self-determination for all lands was the right course of action, but he later lamented giving into the international financiers of old Britain and Europe who funded his campaign, and founded the un-Federal no-Reserve Bored...the same old warmongers who profit from every war, for their feudalism, monarchies, vatican, nazionism.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:49 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"Provincial Americans lack worldly insight, and are used accordingly". Is it so? I can't judge, though in my experience the hallmark of the "Provincial American" would be the use of ammunition from past culture & propaganda wars, like "feudalism, and  monarchies, their hofjuden, vatican". Oh, and the invention of new hybrids like "nazionists", or the reduction of all political influences on US policies to a few, like Soros

On the other side, I usually associate "worldly insight" with the realization that it isn't that simple, and that a lot of human history is shaped by powerful interests. Like the interests of arms producing industries that clamour for a new war, or pipelines. Which leads back to Syria

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 03:03 | Link to Comment newengland
newengland's picture

You are inventing your own new world order, same as the old world order. Not a Republic.

Good luck with that, euro disaster; the powerful interest of the monarchies, vatican, hofjuden, nazionism, and lil helpers like Soros the jew who robbed jews, gentiles and others. Soros, the major benefactor of the 'Democrats' who chose O'bomba, and continues the nazionist endless war, as per Orwell's warnings.

Your problem is that you dislike fact. Herr Merkel has a problem: how to explain away the pain of the failed euro. Heil!

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 06:35 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

perhaps I do have a problem with facts, insofar as I do try to separate them from opinions. what was your fact again? that the euro is a disaster? care to explain why? it's still working as designed, in an expected scenario that did materialize (currency tensions due to the Dollar Complex). you seem to forget that we started with the EUR project when it was clear that the USD would not be backed again with gold, and our central banks were expected to finance certain deficits with the accumulation of huge quantities of paper promises. note how the same procedure was repeated with China, our new FrEnemy

care to explain what the fate of the Drachma or other smaller currencies would have been in this environment where all Masters of the Universe want to immortalize themselves as the great men who brought a national currency to their knees, aping Soros's feat against the British Pound? or look at the Yen complex puzzling how to pry that oyster open? care to explain how "the failed euro" brought more pain than a couple of completely failed smaller currencies? would you have preferred a dollarized Greece, for starters? if yes, Greeks seems not to be of your opinion, btw

madame, you seem to abhor imperialism. a fine feeling, shared by Ron Paul, but remember that we have imperialists, too, and they were happily going to trash Egypt in the 50's for it's nationalization of a critical canal - actually they were already landing - when your country called them back (Suez Crisis). And so since then it's your country wearing the "imperialist-in-chief" hat. and so it's your country's World Order - also called Pax Americana, after the template of the previous Pax Britannica. our role is that of the faithful allies

now, again, what exactly is your beef with our currency? that we adjusted it's critical size to the World Order envisioned by your country? Particularly after the decisions Nixon took on August 15th, 1971?

Republic? We have that, we share this sentiment with you. We have several republics, of which we are quite proud, including Federal Germany. And we are building up a confederation - slowly, mind you. One that your Founding Fathers would probably approve of, and appreciate several design features of, including a separation between confederate center with some administrative powers and armed national forces in the sovereign members. of course you can claim that your country's path in history is irresistible, but even if this would be true we'd still be some 100 years away from your setup, and it would imply that we'd be copying your country, which we aren't

so again, what are the faithful allies of your country doing that is not according to your wishes?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:17 | Link to Comment Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

so lets see Iraq allows Christians, Jews and non-extremist Muslims to live in the same country. Sure the dictator we put in power and provided chemical weapons to didn't listen to us, so we must remove him. Now there are no Christians or Jews left in Iraq. All we have left is sectarian violence and Al-Qeda in Iraq.

Egypt allows Christians to live alongside non-extremist Muslims, the dictator we funded and armed no longer listened to us and so he was removed. Now there are few christians, no Jews and we have extremist muslims in power.

Syria, allows Christians to live alongside non-extremist Muslims. It even allowed Hebrew to be taught in schools. The dictator we allowed to stay in power to 'balance' the region has now turned against extremists. Now we will arm the extremists, remove the dictator. Soon no Christians or jews will be allowed to live in Syria. Only extremist muslims may survive.

Iran, allows Christians and Jews to live alongside non-extremist Muslims. The dictator we installed was overthrown in a violent revolution. Since then we've disliked them. We will go to war with them, although now the timeline is extended a bit (it's been 30 years since we started asking for war, we can wait until the new president says something we can misrepresent as well). Soon no Christians or Jews will be allowed to live there and only the extremist clerics may have power.

Saudi Arabia. Christians and Jews are NOT allowed to live here. Non-extremist muslims ('moderates') are frowned upon as 'progressives'. Sharia law is in effect. Wahabism is the rule. 15 of the 19 hijackers from 9/11 were from Saudi. OBL was Saudi. We will continue to provide advanced aircraft, armor, missiles and even our own troops to this country. The extremists are already in power, we don't need to remove this dictator.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 02:24 | Link to Comment newengland
newengland's picture

And the cruellest cut? The House of Saud and its Wahabbi brand of Islam, wanting an international Caliphate by coercion, was founded by...British zionists after WWI.

Confuse and conquer; the British and European monarchies, the vatican, the hofjuden, the monopolists - aided by the Trilateral Commission, funded and promoted mostly in the USA by traitor David Rockefeller.

David Rockefeller is a traitor, and should be hanged accordingly after a hearing at the Hague; a show trial, much as he is all for show, and murder, crimes against the Armed Forces and humanity...without any remorse for his Trilateral Commission banksters.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 08:28 | Link to Comment Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

ONLY David Rockefeller! The list is depressingly looooooooooooooooong my friend.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:16 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 _ is it just me_ ? or, are we floating on honesty/

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:16 | Link to Comment n2dark
n2dark's picture

Either Mr. Paul is too polite or he's too ignorant to call it what it actually is. The simple fact that at the top of the circus now sits a psychopath instead of an undiagnosed mentally challenged baboon does not change a bit the mechanics of the game. The pimps just want their return on investment and the D.C. whores will have to deliver. You simply just can't ignore that this is one of the most lucrative wealth transfer schemes in history – using a bunch of cheap political prostitutes to shape and enact policies that would allow them to legally milk to death the American people through a public circuit of money. How else would the military-industrial complex be able to capture hundreds of billions, if not trillions of your money?!

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:18 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Obama's presidency is already ruined. He's outta there and so is Holder.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:26 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 POTUS is TOAST!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:47 | Link to Comment WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

burnt toast

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:28 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

REVOLUTION GOING DOWN IN BRAZIL!! COPS OPEN FIRE ON PROTESTERS... PROTESTERS GO ON ROOF OF GENERAL ASSEMBLY, SET IT ON FIRE...

ARMY IN THE STREETS...

Shit is going down and total news blackout from MSM... Please ZH report on it!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 01:35 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture
Brazil protests spread in Sao Paulo, Brasilia and Rio

"As many as 200,000 people have marched through the streets of Brazil's biggest cities, as protests over rising public transport costs and the expense of staging the 2014 World Cup have spread.

The biggest protests were in Rio de Janeiro, where stone-throwing youths clashed with police, and in Sao Paulo.

In the capital, Brasilia, people breached security at the National Congress building and scaled its roof.

The protests are the largest seen in Brazil for more than 20 years.

The trigger was a 2 June increase in the price of a single bus fare in Sao Paulo from 3 reals ($1.40, £0.90) to 3.20. Authorities said the rise was well below inflation, which since the last price increase in January 2011 has been 15.5%, according to official figures."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22946736#sa-ns_mchannel=rs...

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 04:52 | Link to Comment smacker
smacker's picture

 

Avoid the Rio beaches this weekend!

Arrastoes will be out en masse to steal your trinkets.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 05:13 | Link to Comment smacker
smacker's picture

From my knowledge & information, the BBC article is pretty accurate.

There are A LOT of Brazilians angry about the huge sums being spent on preps for the World Cup, whilst the nation's infrastructure is totally inadequate and decaying.

~$450 million (R$900 million) spent to refurbish Maracanã football stadium in Rio and new stadiums being built in other major cities. Little of this was ever supported or approved by the electorate, just the socialist political elites to gather personal kudos. Add to that, everyday prices in Brazil are very high relative to wages and as a result, Brazilians have become a nation of debt slaves. Add to that, Brazil has a huge crack problem which spurs enormous street crime in Rio, São Paulo and most other cities.

Personally, I doubt if these demos and riots will last long but perhaps the message will get thru to the corrupt socialist elites in Brasilia.

What we see today in Brazil is the direct consequence of 15 years of socialist government, first Lula and now Rousseff - both ex commies - who constructed a protectionist fence around the nation with import taxes to protect domestic jobs, but it's had the effect of domestic made goods being poor quality and highly priced. A Brazilian made washing machine still looks like a 1950s jukebox but costs more than a hi-tech model made/bought in Europe.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 06:02 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

15 years of 1-party government (vs 1 party pretending to be two), large corporate conglomerates with monopoly access to poorly tendered construction contracts that aren't properly overseen or disclosed to taxpayers, who are saddled with IPI & ICS taxes on everything they consume- there are a lot of reasons why a washing machine or a football stadium in Brazil is overpriced, but trade protectionism isn't high on the list, unless you are from the US State Department and trying to line up another nation to export US inflation to (since countries other than the US have free trade and double taxation agreements with Brazil).  Fixing the corruption and the tax code should be the priority. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 06:38 | Link to Comment smacker
smacker's picture

Fair comments, but I disagree with you downplaying the effect of trade barriers in Brazil. Brazil is known as the world's most protected economy. When high trade barriers exist like in Brazil, several consequences arise:

- little incentive for domestic corps to invest money in R&D to produce better quality products. the result is domestically manufactured junk that resembles 1950s jukeboxes. customers have no choice but to buy it.

- little incentive to improve domestic productivity. the result is overmanning and gross inefficiency.

- domestic manufactured products are priced just below the cost of imports which are sky-high due to import taxes. this essentially means huge mark-ups. the result is large profits and rich executives.

- due to high import taxes, many global corps don't even bother exporting to Brazil because sales of their products would not justify the costs. so choice in Brazil is severely limited.

All these play out together. Apart from that, Brazil is essentially a corporatist state, with the big corps feeding slush money into the political elites to maintain import controls and to buy favour. In the short term it allows the political elites to claim lower unemployment.

 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 07:21 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

fair comments, too, but isn't it for Brazil to decide? essentially (to keep up with your explanation) if they open up they exchange their national corporatist setup with the global corporatist setup, with even bigger global corps feeding slush money into global political elites to maintain control and buy favour

meanwhile they produce planes (see Embraer) that even european carriers operate with, which does not hint at a lack of R&D, imho

and the high import taxes look differently if a country is resource-rich - actually the US fared very well with this policy for something like a century or more, and the sheltered industries flourished up to the point where they were able to compete globally with the Brits and the Germans

keeping Brazilians employed instead of shipping Brazilian industries to the East does not look that bad as a policy, imho, even with the loss of efficiency that you describe

demographics is also important. I remember when the country had an underage majority. now those youngsters are in their "prime age", and jobs are important for them, even if this means less profits for Wall Street and The City and the global corps they finance

in theory, free, unrestricted trade would be a good thing, on this I agree. but reality is that in the current world "opening up" means that you then consume products financed by NY and London banking cartels, designed in the first world, produced in the East and shipped and marketed world-wide, all under the umbrella and protection of the greatest commercial empire that ever existed

fine, very efficient. but would then the great Pax Americana also give those Brazilians jobs? or would all those "efficiency gains" to to... financial gains in the markets and in bonuses? I honestly can't blame Brazilians to keep their continental sized market closed, and I wonder daily how so many people ask for free-trade policies without realizing that there are imperial strings attached to them

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