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Chart Of The Day: When ETF Paper Beats Gold Rock

Tyler Durden's picture


Demand for physical gold across the world continues to surge at an unprecedented pace leading India to blame its soaring current account deficit, sliding currency and even deteriorating economy on it (even if failing in its attempts to regulate demand for the yellow metal), and yet gold continues to slide. How come? One word - paper, or rather, ETF paper.

And more vividly, the combined holdings of GLD and IAU.

So, for now, paper does indeed beat rock.


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Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:50 | 3669188 flacon
flacon's picture

Short GOOG, IWM. 


GOOG is ripe for the picking:


Look at IWM (Russell 2000) - it's a good time to buy puts:


Bonus, JPM is looking like it can't keep it's erection either:


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:52 | 3669195 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

RoShamGold Bitches!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:55 | 3669203 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

NFLX, GOOG, Tesla...  I don't want to try call a top, but wow, those boys have got some room to run.  To the downside.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:56 | 3669207 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

I agree on IWM...but not sure about GOOG....I bought puts on IWM today.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:59 | 3669219 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Someone come up with some dynamite to blow up this ponzi.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:02 | 3669231 Spider
Spider's picture

So 30% of the trust's gold is gone?  If it keeps selling it should be empty by year-end - there's your plan...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:09 | 3669251 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I am really getting tired of seeing all of these paper gold flecks all over the damn boulders and rocks here in NW Quebec.  Ohh, that is real gold?  Sorry, my bad!

Plusieurs detailles plus tard...

And when do they turn on the heat around here?  High will be 61 F, brr...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:10 | 3669258 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


GLD shares are being redeemed for physical delivery - note the post Cyprus acceleration.

It is part of the run to physical underway worldwide.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:31 | 3669314 Nue
Nue's picture

Seeing as GLD shares are leveraged 100 to 1 going to be some disappointed GLD holders

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:15 | 3669523 Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

They are driving the price down so that they can

a) pay paper out in cash

b) confiscate or

c)  both of the above.

Rule of investment number one:

Nothing is an accident and nothing is as it appears.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:40 | 3669691 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

The only paper I'm interested in is located in the bathroom.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:20 | 3669291 knukles
knukles's picture

You best be fishin', DoChen...
And catch yourself a buncha walleyes, when ya gut 'em fry the livers up in butter or better yet, Crisco, post haste
About as close to heaven as possible....

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:35 | 3669322 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Extra Virgin, Olive Oil.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:46 | 3669478 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"About as close to heaven as possible...."

Eating crisco will get you there even faster.  It's a hydrogenated transfat designed to last forever.  Maybe its good for emegency food storage, but that's about it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:11 | 3669643 Chariots of the Feds
Chariots of the Feds's picture

Actually they make great candles for emergency and survival.  Loooooong lasting.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:52 | 3669927 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Don't use Crisco lard is healthier, better for cooking and baking and tastes better.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:10 | 3669253 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:11 | 3669260 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I bet it's already empty. The remaining 70% is likely nothing but Comex "good as gold" delivery receipts.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:25 | 3669447 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Exactly. The selling is going to be over at some point, probably not too far into the future.

I've been sitting on a butt-load of cash for a couple months now waiting for the gold charts to turn up.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:04 | 3669238 knukles
knukles's picture

The real philosophical question needed to be discussed broadly, in public is: "Why should the Central Bank have such influence?"
Yeah, yeah yeah, I already know the answers and arguments.
Just sayin', it's not being discussed besides venues such as this.

Needs another Hamilton/Jackson moment

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:52 | 3669361 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture


I have been wondering the same thing the last eight years - since my monetary consciousness awakening and rising awareness that there is something other than Keynesian BS - that would be von Mises.  Of course I always suspected debt, as in B. Franklin: "I would rather go to bed hungry than wake up in debt."   Duh.  (Not to take anything away from that genius.)  I think that I will see if I can arrange to attend Bernanke's going away luncheon and present him with a copy of Franklin's Autobiography.  I were supposed to have read that in the eighth grade.

Funny how the Coinage Act of 1792 stipulted the death penalty for dicking around with the value of a dollar.  But the Dead White European Males - what did they know?

Hey!!!!  Somebody has to decide how much money is placed in circulation.  The Constitution specifies it as Congress.  Congress decided to subcontract it out.  Nothing wrong with that.  But if it went that route, they were supposed to do so dilligently - as in asking the basic question....does our contractor of choice (that would be the Fed) have a conflict of interest in performing its new role?  Duh.  Foxes watching the hen house bitchezs!!!!!!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:38 | 3669468 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

it is being talked about knucks...on the internet were the biggest crowds congregate...fuck tv

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:55 | 3669488 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

why? because it's an instrument of power. like nuclear power/arms

control over the FED is control over the global fiat currency

a tremendous amount of power. and it even pays bills, btw

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 02:39 | 3670556 e-recep
e-recep's picture

but but what about free market theory?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:23 | 3669299 Satan
Satan's picture

The NSA say they foiled that plot.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:29 | 3669312 Umh
Umh's picture

I didn't know they were into foil. They always seem to paint their opponents as into foil.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:37 | 3669329 Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

You didn't foil that.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:28 | 3669450 youngman
youngman's picture

From here on out..all we are going to hear about are the foiled plots the NSA caught.....100´s of them I am to be trotted out in front of some congressional keep up the good works....and funding...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:46 | 3669479 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

NSA - "Of the hundreds we foiled, we will show you 2! We are still sorting out the retarded kids the FBI was setting up and may find one or two more."

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:03 | 3669618 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture


Funny and truthful

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:36 | 3669325 Strider52
Strider52's picture

Negative: That's GOTTA be an NSA Bad Word. Your accounts have been frozen, they ARE listening to YOUR phone calls, etc. Expect a visitor you've never seen before.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:10 | 3669513 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Fuck Langley and all those asswipes.

They can nSa my balls in their mouth.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:42 | 3669579 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Almost Solvent ,


For maximum effectiveness you need to work at including the word detonator into your conversations.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:49 | 3669352 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

when they are ready they 'll blow the ponzi themselves, after the suckers are dragged into stocks, s&p, bonds and shorting the PMs sector, they will buy and let the short squeeze take care of the prices...they will be already long gold & Silver

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:56 | 3669492 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

tna puts make more sense since there is daily time decay in the etf,  if you can handle the volatility

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:15 | 3669276 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Tesla .. Why would anyone buy a car that requires so much thought to drive ,, start planning the day before to make sure it's charged up ,, chart all the charging stations along the way , pack snacks for the wait while you charge up ...and when you forget to condition the batteries and they go flat you have a $40K bill not covered by the warranty ... Good Times I'll tell you..


For Gods sake buy a $25,000 used Mercedes SL already and DRIVE .

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:55 | 3669490 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

Agreed, MB makes a sweet driving machine. Buying a used one coming off a 2 or 3 year lease redemption offers great value.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:26 | 3670042 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

Tesla is hypertech compared to Fiskar-Fisker, or whatever.

 A 5400 pound car that does 40 miles on batteries if it runs at all. All for 100,000++ FRN's.

 I saw that Consumer Reports actually bought one to test. That is a good reason to never subscribe to their magazine. The car puked before it made any miles on the test track.

 Of course the taxcows are on the hook for the failure of such a piece of shit company and their "tech".


Any dope that knows anything at all about cars would never have considered for a moment to buy a 5400 pound turd car with those performance figures. It took the goomint maggots to put the taxcows on the hook for such a project.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:23 | 3669443 midtowng
midtowng's picture

While its fun to accuse all ETF's of not having gold, it isn't true. There IS some physical gold behind the ETF's, and the sooner you deal with that effect the better off you'll be.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:00 | 3669501 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

So what's your point? You have to redeem a very large number of shares for physical. Soros can (and probably did) pull that off, but the little fishes will end up with the heartache of a fool.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:10 | 3669515 midtowng
midtowng's picture

My point is that the physical market is getting temporarily saturated from all the ETF selling.

This will all end in time, of course, but it isn't just a factor of paper manipulation. That's all I'm saying.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:35 | 3669464 SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

Gold and silver keep falling even though gold is now getting close to break-even for the top gold miners.  Also, the majority of top 12 primary silver miners are losing money below $25-25.

Also, the price of gold and silver will continue to rise because costs are rising:

Silver Price to Rise as Top Miner’s Production Evaporates

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:53 | 3669200 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Black or Red.... same odds..... Casino is rigged.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:57 | 3669213 flacon
flacon's picture

How else can one make money if not for taking advantage of a rigged market? Don't tell me that you are still a PRODUCER in this environment, trying to make an "honest" wage! Pfft. Ayn Rand warned about the delusions of PRODUCERS thinking they can change the system. The only way out is to DISENGAGE. 


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:03 | 3669505 fourchan
fourchan's picture

We are John Gault.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:02 | 3669232 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep that's why I bypassed all this long ago and bought as many firearms and ammo that I could, and have been selling it off for double and triple. No need to play in their rigged casino at all.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:12 | 3669265 Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

Yes, but now they have paper guns too!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:13 | 3669270 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well, plastic....but anyway you need a $5,000 special printer too.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:08 | 3669509 markettime
markettime's picture

I would wait for the 50 day moving average to be breached, then buy puts or go short. Unless the fed comes out and announces a 125 billion per month print fest. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:53 | 3669198 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

ETF game has destroyed any "undesirable" assets deemed "too important" for the ponzi to let rise so of course they divert the peeps funny money into these frauds......nice touch boyz

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:53 | 3669201 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I heard on CNBS this morning that Bernanke was going to really dump on Gold at the meeting and it will be taking a big hit. I didn't hear anymore because I left. So there might be a big sale on Gold and Silver coming.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:04 | 3669237 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

How exactly is the Bernank going to 'dump on gold' again....say it's a barbaric relic? We've already heard it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:08 | 3669249 knukles
knukles's picture

Pull out his weenie, wave it about in public, wiggling his hips, pants about his ankles, singing Steely Dan's "Your Gold Teeth" and lamenting that this is what happens when you own gold, therefore private ownership must be abolished, if only for the children.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:19 | 3669288 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Shouldn't he be singing "Charlie Freak" ?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:27 | 3669309 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Hey Nineteen

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:03 | 3669969 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

it's astounding...

time is fleeting...

madness...  takes its toll


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:09 | 3669257 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

1) they always slam gold for Ben

2) triple witching

3) stack while it's cheap

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:05 | 3669629 Cosmicserpent
Cosmicserpent's picture

Naked short selling.  (See mid April).  The Fed hates gold and will do whatever is in its power to drive the price down, lest some other country decide to back its currency with it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:13 | 3669268 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Perhaps this will be the last takedown before the force majure ends the Crimex for good?

If they knock the price down low enough first, settlement in dollars becomes a non-issue.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:56 | 3669374 hamstercheese
hamstercheese's picture

I read he wasn't going to attend Jackson Hole later this year, not sure what that means.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:23 | 3669440 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

This game will end bad for America.  These Jewsih bankers never stop till they destroy the entire economy.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:53 | 3669202 Impoverished Ps...
Impoverished Psychologist's picture

People/nation states are prepping for the fiat system to implode, physical gold being required to back the post collapse new currencies.. whatever they may be.

Welcome to the vortex...


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:56 | 3669210 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Show me some "Hedge Fund" paper.  Remember this chart Tyler?  Oh wait bloomturd pulled this chart. (MVOLUSE Quote - US Tape A+B+C Volume Index - Bloomberg

  I have a better chart.

World markets
Shanghai     2,159.29     +3.08 (0.14%)
Nikkei 225     13,007.28     -25.84 (-0.20%)
Hang Seng Index     21,225.88     -0.02 (-0.00%)
TSEC     8,011.02     +18.13 (0.23%)
FTSE 100     6,374.21     +43.72 (0.69%)
EURO STOXX 50     2,700.93     -1.76 (-0.07%)
CAC 40     3,860.55     -3.11 (-0.08%)
S&P TSX     12,374.10     +85.20 (0.69%)
S&P/ASX 200     4,814.40     -11.50 (-0.24%)
BSE Sensex     19,223.28     0.00 (0.00%)
KOSPI     1,900.62     +17.52 (0.93%)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:58 | 3669218 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

How to hold Washington accountable using the Racketeer Influence & Corrupt Organizations Act

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:01 | 3669225 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

People have been saying that for decades, but who is there to deliver the indictments?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:16 | 3669273 knukles
knukles's picture

Earl Warren's ghost


Farmer Brown

Who was
Bald on Top

Said I wish I could

Rotate the Crop

Burma Shave


Impeach Earl Warren

Ah, the good olde days driving along some wayback county road 5,000 miles from nowhere in Iowa on a sunny day, bright blue clear sky, listening to some good olde Texas Swing with a bottle of Dr. Pepper in a souped up '40 Ford rumble provided by a 289 with cutouts....


Them bastards done went and took that away from us...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:16 | 3669279 Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

I wish everyone would quit bitching about paper gold.  If you are truly holding gold for the long term, who gives a fuck what paper gold is doing?  Plus today's paper liquidation of gold eventually becomes tomorrow's paper gold rally. Like it or not, financial and commodity derivatives are here to stay - at least until the whole world crashes.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:23 | 3669301 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

becomes tomorrow's "physical" rally...  fixed it for you...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:37 | 3669327 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"who gives a fuck what paper gold is doing"?

97-99% of the investing public that's who. This shit isn't good for anyone but except those who disparage and denigrate gold and silver as effective hedges against this QE4eva printing press madness. In other words, it creates the perception and impression that gold and silver demand is weak when it isn't.


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:48 | 3669347 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

The bitch isn't about paper gold per se but about the whole crooked system that punishes the correct and rewards the wrong; taxes the productive and subsidizes the unproductive; and generally fucks us all in the ass.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:08 | 3669511 aka Gil
aka Gil's picture

Who gives a fuck? People who save their money in gold and have to dip into their savings. I wish everyone would quit posting like they know it all.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 15:59 | 3669220 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

I have a hunch that IF there is a "taper" it can only be beneficial to gold.  Ditto for ETF selloff.

With every market, every asset price, every value and every index rigged, manipulated and fixed, gold will look quite honest in comparison to the bloated paper assets...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:00 | 3669224 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

They get more insane every day.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:02 | 3669230 newworldorder
newworldorder's picture

Most know what the gold ETF is.

Couple this with paper futures trading of unlimited gold tonnage backed by a marginal 5% physical backing and you have the basis of a manipulated market. Regulators do not want to see this, because it is the government who is doing the manipulation.

The only question is how long can this last?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:03 | 3669235 exartizo
exartizo's picture long as nobody wants the real stuff, they're golden. forgive the pun.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:05 | 3669401 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

And when they do want the real stuff, they're Tungsten.....and who will be forgiving then?


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:06 | 3669241 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No worries though, apparently the now fully delusional ObaMao believes 'he gots this shit' and wants Bernank gone. Man what a clownshow this is shaping up to be!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:11 | 3669243 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Guys, correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm reading this, the takeaways are: 

   1. Ride the stocks higher (if you're in them already) on the Greater Fool Theory, till...

   2. You sense a Stock Reversal (Correction or Crash), or

   3. Paper gold goes even lower, then buy up bullion.  Assuming it's still available.


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:12 | 3669266 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I guess!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:13 | 3669271 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hey, "junker",  I asked a question and requested feedback.  So... are you retarded, or just a world-class asshole?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:23 | 3669300 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

junkers abound worries. Some people junk for no reason. Consider it a medal of honor. To answer you....3.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:44 | 3669343 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture


Looks like #3 is a possible scenario, but if they go that way hard, many miners will go bust. That will kill the supply chain, creating massive shortages.

They are playing with fire.....and more like trying to walk on the Sun. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:16 | 3669524 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

"but if they go that way hard, many miners will go bust. That will kill the supply chain, creating massive shortages."


However, the central planning committee will intervene and reopen the mines. Signing up miners should be easy - work 10 hours in the mine each month in order to keep your Ophone & SNAP card . . .


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:05 | 3669628 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin''s picture

yep, and ticks and leeches will magically start working for a living.....and I'll get a unicorn that shits milky way bars

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:11 | 3669997 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

Every one knows unicorns shit skittles......milky way bars would be a miracle

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:52 | 3670134 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

Bay of Pigs

"but if they go that way hard, many miners will go bust. That will kill the supply chain, creating massive shortages."

The moneyness of 79 is that there is a huge supply overhang that will be minimally affected even if all new supply is stopped.

What would happen if 2% of total supply went missing? There are no other "commodities" remotely like that excepting silver to a much smaller extent. But then I am sure that you already know this.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:37 | 3669328 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

1) Once you "sense" the reversal in the stock market, game over, market goes no bid, you don't get crap out of it.

2) Then try to buy the gold you were wanting to buy, except none to find, and all your money is locked up in a no bid in the stock market anyway, so no money to buy said gold.



Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:07 | 3669407 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

For me the sensing the reversal was a few weeks ago at 1680 (plus a modest number of times before that). I might 'unsense it' if we hit a new high but that may never happen. The problem with this market your first real clue may be when the market opens down 10% on a Monday morning. IMHO war is likely coming our way and that first day after it starts will be interesting. Sweeping pennies in front of the steam roller at this time is much stupider than its normal level of stupidity. Hope I'm wrong.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:55 | 3669371 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I have been buying now, as I think posters are correct if it keeps going lower, no fizz PMs will be available.

My last orders from Apmex and Provident were quickliy shipped, but there are lots of out of stock items.

Also, my local dealer is running very low.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:07 | 3669244 involuntarilybirthed
involuntarilybirthed's picture

Paper covers rock.  Even kids know that.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:15 | 3669262 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Paper, is worthless ink< until it's third partyied>  same as fiat, OOPs mybad>

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:38 | 3669331 FreeMktFisherMN
FreeMktFisherMN's picture

but, but, the DHS video on 'defense' shows that scissors beats paper and rock (and guns)



Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:51 | 3669346 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Is this a financial post? FreeMktFisherMN   ShaRE SOMETHING FINANCIALLY BASED WITH ME?

    How much does pork cost {per [pound]} in Minasota?


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:48 | 3669482 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

But me scissors are made of metal and they belong to me

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:07 | 3669246 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well, there's another in-your-face +1% across the board day for ya!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:05 | 3669621 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I just +1'd you, SD-1, to negate the drive-by junk you received.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:08 | 3669252 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The supply deficit of both gold and silver will become readily apparent by the end of the year; next up will be gold and silver storage facility bail-ins (for national security purposes, dontcha know).  Then an EO by Obama on banning all guns, followed by militarized TSA thugs searching every house.

"but officer, see the hole in my boat; it's all gone"

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:11 | 3669263 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'End of the year' is significant why? Isn't it likely we'll just see the usual mandatory run-up rally...gotta front run stellar retail sales and all. Why would we expect to see anything else by year end?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:02 | 3669766 mt paul
mt paul's picture

training a crew of pirate beavers

to chew holes in all z hedgers boats

and steal all their gold ...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:09 | 3669254 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So....basically....if I got this right, everyone wants gold so they're putting it into 'paper ETF's' yet this actually crushes real gold price. Huh....well I guess it all makes sense to someone out there.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:19 | 3669289 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

you got it backwards.  everyone wants physical gold which is why sales are off the charts.  however, as the chart indicates, gold ETF's are being sold off in record numbers (sales of paper gold) driving the spot price down...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:22 | 3669297 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

and if TPTB are shorting paper gold to force price down, don't they have to at some point in the future buy that same amt of paper gold at a cheaper price to keep the position solvent?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:33 | 3669318 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

They could just print more money to short more gold..  the newly printed money forces phyz gold higher, and once again print more money to short more, causing gold to rise some more... print fiat / gold rise / print fiat / gold rise oops I could imagine a spectacular feedback loop cluster fuck in my dreams.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:56 | 3669947 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

good explanation, thanks

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:16 | 3669281 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

I can fix this, hand me those scissors.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:51 | 3669484 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

The gold ones or the silver ones.?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:30 | 3669290 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 ETF's are/were an entry point into offshore markets. ETF's are just another explaination of why we can't find (JOHN CORZINE)


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:24 | 3669304 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

If the Fed tapers then there's LESS liquidity available to naked short PMs, right?

Kreditanstalt may in fact be onto something. Still, everyone repeat after me in our Al Swearengen Memorial Chant:


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:26 | 3669306 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Many have speculated that the ETFs are an ingenius bankster tool created for the suppression of sound money. Endless paper games to fool the sheep.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:28 | 3669310 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

When did the taper nonsense start ? Was that after BB realised there's a massive run on the banks and into phyzz after the March 2013 Cyprus bail in ? Did he panic and call for a taper less than 60 days later as the JPM vaults were being cleared out?  It feels like I'm standing on the beach and watching the tide (gold etf's) mysteriously go out, everyone awe struck by the shallowness but what is that out on the horizon coming in fast?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:34 | 3669321 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Yeah, and what's wrong with this? You have a moral objection to buying physical at artificiality low 'prices', or what? Sure, the system never should have worked like this. So? It does. And since it does, STFU, and buy what you know is actually going to be worth something in 20 or 30 years. That is unless you also have a moral objection to protecting your 'wealth'.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:00 | 3669379 honestann
honestann's picture

Indeed, many of us have been doing just that.  And yes, good for us to have artificially low prices now, and artifically high prices when the manipulation scheme collapses.


You ignore those folks who bought long ago, have been holding many years to many decades, and are now ready to retire, or buy a home, or otherwise convert their gold savings into some other real, physical good (or maybe even tuition for their kids).

Those folks are objectively being ripped off.  Yes, some of us earlier in the curve may benefit from the price manipulation, and certainly the fiat-pusher predators-that-be benefit from this.

But the notion that it is just peachy keen fine to screw some people because others benefit is a sick excuse for an ethics.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:07 | 3669408 sitenine
sitenine's picture

That's all good and well, but ethics? Really? As if fairness was an issue when the older generation was spending my and my children's wealth to pad their retirement with? With ALL due respect,  FUCK THEM!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:59 | 3669500 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> the older generation was spending my and my children's wealth

And you've done what differently?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:52 | 3669698 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Nothing. I was born into this ass-rape culture, thank you very much. But thanks for asking. I guess? Whatever. I don't give a shit anymore. The current 'system' has no rule of law, no morality, no work ethic, no privacy, no freedom, no choice, no future.

I'm doing what is right for me as I see it, and just maybe there will be a better 'system' after this one implodes all over itself in some kind of greed driven, fiat enabled, debt ridden, rehypothicated cosmic orgasm. I highly doubt it, but I refuse to believe that we have to live like slaves either.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:10 | 3669416 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     It took you the better part of two days?

                                                        "To write this response"?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:40 | 3669335 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

every thing has played out pretty much as i thought it would EXCEPT i thought Gold would be over $2500 at this point.....


Normally i would be worried.......Yet, I am not

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:40 | 3669336 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

I have never seen one shred of evidence that the gold represented by GLD is not in storage. I also believe the paper price is a fair representation of the physical price rather than the other way around. Despite all the printing there still exists too little money for ionflation and thus gold is losing value.  It's not all a grand conspiracy.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:54 | 3669351 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

At SlightlySeptical....

What shred of evidence have you seen that it is there?

"a fair representation" what is this statement based on? fair in relation to what?

and how long do you think they can print before inflation?

Just ask'n


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:52 | 3669357 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Are you a troll, or just an idiot?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:56 | 3669360 A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

"I have never seen one shred of evidence that the gold represented by GLD is IN storage."

There, fixed it for ya! Gotta stick with the facts, you know...

"I also believe the paper price is a fair representation of the physical price rather than the other way around."

The tooth fairy figure into your fuzzy math as well? How about market pixies?

"Despite all the printing there still exists too little money for ionflation and thus gold is losing value."

I've never seen ANY evidence for this laughable statement.

"It's not all a grand conspiracy."

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe someday when the Genie of the Lamp grants your your 3 wishes it can come true...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:01 | 3669389 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Have you seen a shred of evidence that it is?  I would think the burden of proof resides with the etf.  They and their vaults are full of shit until they prove otherwise.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:07 | 3669404 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Nothing, not even one word of what you just wrote makes logical sense - especially this statement: there still exists too little money for ionflation and thus gold is losing value.  a down arrow for possibly the dumbest thing anybody has ever said on ZH EVER!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:10 | 3669516 Vooter
Vooter's picture

Where have you not seen inflation?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:24 | 3669539 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

slightlyskeptical said:  "I have never seen one shred of evidence that the gold represented by GLD is not in storage."

You don't need evidence, just ask yourself a simple question: 

"Do I trust that an Exchange Traded Fund started in 2004 and traded on Wall Street and other World markets is not leveraging the fund and has a 1:1 ratio of assets (physical Gold) to paper (liabilities)?"

Remember that the 2008 crisis was triggered by leveraging up tangible assets using deriviatives (paper).

If you trust human nature, and that the humans on Wall Street are honest, you are right.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:58 | 3669607 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

And while you'r contemplating leveraging gold, SS - look up how the gold leasing industry works and let that play out in your mind once the run starts.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:41 | 3669337 MxBonanza
MxBonanza's picture

"They" are doing a fine job manipulating gold. Now they want to punish Paulson by ruining him and his fund. 

Too many articles about COMEX and The Morgue running out of physical, but still they can lower the price at will. I doubt they really are in trouble. 

I await patently, and buy more as I can. People forced to sell are being ruined by these powerful bullies! 


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:48 | 3669348 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Paper rock scissors is so old school.

Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock   is the new game in town.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 16:54 | 3669369 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

The premium is always there to make up the difference between the real price and the imaginary paper price.  Only a dumbass would sell physical for the spot price.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:04 | 3669395 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

just go to the mall.. I've seen people selling at 30% BELOW SPOT.
On I've bought silver at a 50% discount and there's plenty of it.
I'm becomming pretty pissed off to be honest... I'm in this game for over 5 years now... and I'm actually down on my investment. It simply sucks...
I kind of thought it would be at least at a 100 right now.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:01 | 3669385 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I feel like I lost a shotload of money right now.... I'm sitting on a small mountain of silver with a average of 32$... Yet again it feels like I'm in way to early. damn... could have had a shitload more if I waited a bit.

I bought 50 eagles today for 1100$. It's like I don't want to place them next to my other silver at these prices.

Now I'm gona save my money and waiting for a serious drop in gold to load up. My dreams tell me I'll be able to buy leopolds 20 for 120 euro's real soon. Now that would be the bomb!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:07 | 3669405 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Buy MOAR!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:07 | 3669406 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

LOL !!! Yes SD i know what you mean......I also have a $32 average on APMEX 1 oz bars

all my recent $24 buys have been for Silver eagles........

i do keep them it feels like they should be divided into Good Silver and Bad Silver

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:09 | 3669412 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Please tell me where you got 50 eagles at 22 bucks each.  Must have been a desparate private party or a burglar.  Better check to see if your other stack is 50 eagles short.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:13 | 3669423 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

1100 euro's that is.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:56 | 3669493 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:55 | 3669604 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

lowest I've seen rounds on the net was $23 bucks, w/t a minimum $1500 order. Nice NTR Buffalo/Indians.....anyone got a cheaper price than that?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:13 | 3669424 fuckitall
fuckitall's picture

I think we've gotten the point now, spot can be hammered way further down than we ever imagined, despite the growing disconnect with physical.

Yes, operating in totally manipulated markets is a learning experience.

And yes they can keep it up out into the future, long as major currencies hold up anyway.   But injecting printed money is having diminishing returns as economic reality catches up, and catching up means economic reality will overtake printed money injecting at some point bringing prices down in spite of printed money injecting. 

That's when Fed loses control.  When economic reality overshadows printed money injecting. When Fed can't print and buy trash fast enough to keep prices up.

That's why there will no "tapering".  The opposite will happen, more printing and buying.  Fed's balance sheet will grow faster than it does now.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:26 | 3669544 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Yup. The way "these" fuckers operate now, if "they" say "we're tapering by x%" they are actually increasing by y%. If "they" tell you it's raining, "they're" actually pissing on your leg while screwing your spouse. 


These fuckers don't care because if they stop, they'll be dead (along with most of the rest of us, unfortunately)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:24 | 3669837 fuckitall
fuckitall's picture

"along with most of the rest of us, unfortunately"

Actually not.  If Fed stopped printing and buying trash, Wall St would die, and US govt would die, but everbody else would actually be better off, dollar would hold value better (with no more printing).

It's a fantasy of course, not gonna happen.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:15 | 3670004 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

I hope you're right.


I'm looking at the sheer number of folks that eat what oil produces. Should oil become "scarce" and big farms fail, or even the just in time delivery system, it would be catastrophic. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:32 | 3669458 PhilofOz
PhilofOz's picture

Yeah my average buy is spot on yours and am just as pissed I could have a lot bigger stack right now. Not selling anything, but am not game to pile in anymore even at what seem bargain-basement prices.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:59 | 3669498 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Bullish again BTFD B17CH3Z

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:29 | 3669663 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Is there any way to get to display in English?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:57 | 3669394 fuckitall
fuckitall's picture

Remember, ETF funds are kept in banks. When bail-ins come to America that ETF money (your money) will be subject to bail-in even if its only a thousand bucks.  After bail-in you won't be able to redeem your shares and forget about getting any physical metal for 'em, it's all leased out, rehypothecated 10 times over, etc.

M F Global was the first bail-in (more or less) here.  More will come.  Getting regulations changed so bail-in is legal here in Amercia is a huge win for bankers.

401k / IRA /pension fund bail-in is in the works.  Not long before regulations will be in place for it.

If you can't hold it in your hand, you don't own it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:10 | 3669417 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

It's the Alinsky Fed .." Control / power by any means necessary". Kudos to Hillary who did her thsis on Alinsky.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:39 | 3669469 Pancho Villa
Pancho Villa's picture

Shades of the late 90's when everyone wanted to be in stocks because they were surging and no one wanted to be in boring gold. I think people are selling their GLD in order to buy stocks. Some big players may be borrowing gold, selling it, and buying a futures contract in order to get funds to invest in the stock market. This allows them to profit from gold falling as well as stocks rising.

In any case, I think gold will languish as long as equities outperform. It is hard to tell how long that will be. Enjoy the PM price break as long as it lasts!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 18:34 | 3669564 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

How can gold languish? It is a critical part of the monetary system? This has been declared several times by the CBGA.

Gold is fine. Its commodity pricing mechanism is the problem. They can sell paper derivatives until the last guy with a few tons to sell says 'no way, not at these prices.' Then it is over and we will see what gold is worth with no fractional reserve gold to lower the price.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:40 | 3669471 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

I won't go all fofoa on you but his observation is that the paper market has a natural tendency to go down and has been (until last Fall) actively supported. That support has been withdrawn and we are now seeing what happens without it. 'Gold' will keep falling until no physical is avaiable.

I just saved you 100 hours of physical....keep it close.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 17:55 | 3669487 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     If the Fed. holds easing at current levels.   It's priced in

      If the Fed. tapers it's priced in.

   The markets are going to crash, as Fed. inflows are priced in. The trades are obscure, so i'm staying flat.

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