This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

"This Is A Glock Block" – Frustrated Homeowners All Over America Are Taking Matters Into Their Own Hands

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Michael Snyder via The Economic Collapse blog,

All over the United States, frustrated homeowners are banding together, arming themselves and patrolling their own streets.  One of the primary reasons this is happening is because police budgets all over the nation are being slashed at a time when violent crime rates in the United States are increasing and many our our largest cities are being transformed into crime-infested war zones.  So instead of waiting for government to come up with a solution, many Americans are taking matters into their own hands.

For example, one community group in Milwaukie, Oregon has started posting flyers with an ominous message for potential criminals: "This is a Glock block. We don’t call 911."  You can see a photo of this flyer right here.  One of the founders of the "Glock Block" is a breast cancer survivor named Coy Tolonen.  She decided to arm herself after a thief stole one of her favorite statues out of her front yard while she was watching...

It’s mostly petty crime that neighbors are sick and tired of:  stolen lawn ornaments, vandalism.  But for neighbors like Tolonen, a breast-cancer survivor, that’s enough: “I will defend myself — and my home,” she told KOIN 6 News.


Tolonen recently had a beloved statue she calls “Lilly Rose” stolen off her front porch. She said she even saw the man who stole it and tried to chase him down — but he got away.


This was the last straw for Tolonen, who decided to take a class to get her concealed carry permit.

We are seeing similar things happen in other areas of the nation.  As I wrote about yesterday, the size of the police force has been cut in half in the city of Detroit over the past ten years.  Meanwhile, crime rates have skyrocketed.  So frustrated citizens are now teaming up with the police to patrol their own neighborhoods...

Volunteers given radios and matching T-shirts help officers protect neighborhoods where burglaries, thefts and thugs drive away people who can’t rely on a police force that lost a quarter of its strength since 2009. With 25 patrols on the streets, the city hopes to add three each year. Meanwhile, the homicide rate continues rising.

In some wealthier neighborhoods around the country, citizens are pooling their resources and are hiring private security firms to ward off criminals.  Just check out what is happening in Oakland...

After people in Oakland’s wealthy enclaves like Oakmore or Piedmont Pines head to work, security companies take over, cruising the quiet streets to ward off burglars looking to take advantage of unattended homes.


“With less law enforcement on the streets and more home crime or perception of home crime, people are wanting something to replace that need,” says Chris de Guzman, chief operating officer of First Alarm, a company that provides security to about 100 homes in Oakland. “That’s why they’re calling us and bringing companies like us aboard to provide that deterrent.”

According to Steve Amitay, the executive director of the National Association of Security Companies, this is also happening in other high crime cities such as Atlanta and Detroit.  In fact, it is being projected that the "private cop" business is going to absolutely boom in the years ahead.

But not everyone can afford to hire private cops.  Those with more limited resources are trying to cope with rising crime any way that they can.

In Chicago, firefighters are actually being enlisted to provide security for public school students walking to and from school...

The city of Chicago has ordered its firefighters to provide security for public school students walking to and from class through the city’s gang turf, according to an official memo from the Chicago Fire Department that WND obtained.


The memo, signed by Chicago Fire Commissioner Jose Santiago, states that the fire department will have “a strong physical presence” along student walking routes for three weeks at the beginning of the school year in the fall.

Sadly, this is just the beginning.  As the U.S. economy continues to get even worse, so will crime, gang activity and social decay.

But that doesn't mean that everyone will be bad.

The truth is that there are still some decent people out there.

Today, someone sent me a story about human decency that made me smile.  In Laguna Niguel, California a man accidentally sold a wooden watch box for $10 that contained his wife's $23,000 wedding ring.  When his wife found out about it, she was absolutely crushed...

Racquel Cloutier was distraught after her husband, Eric, told her he had sold the wooden watch box in which she had hidden the ring before going to hospital to have their fifth child. “I immediately started crying,” said Mrs. Cloutier, 31, of Laguna Niguel, California. “I just wanted the ring to be in a safe place and out of reach from my two-year-old twins.”

Fortunately, the box had ended up with a very honest couple...

A dozen kilometres away, in Mission Viejo, Alyssa and Andrew Lossau were frantically searching for a set of keys. They looked inside a box that Mrs. Lossau’s mother, Chaundel Holladay, had bought at a garage sale and given them as a gift.


Inside, they discovered the three-carat diamond ring. Mrs. Lossau found an email address for Mrs Cloutier and contacted her. “It is giving me faith in people again,” said Mr. Cloutier, 38. “By the grace of God it ended up with the most honest people,” said his wife.

So that story had a very happy ending.

There are still people out there that are ready and willing to do the right thing.

But not everyone is that way.  It has been said that desperate people do desperate things, and when the next major wave of the economic collapse strikes there are going to be millions of very desperate people out there on the streets of America.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:10 | 3669784 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

grab your gat with the extra clip and,
close your eyes and hit the switch
We're going to a place where everybody kick it kick it, kick it, yeah, that's the ticket

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:13 | 3669798 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Disarmament is a prelude to genocide!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:17 | 3669805 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Yeah well, I had my 'Obama in jockey silks' statue stolen off my front lawn... So now I'm heavily armed vowing to never let it happen again... Not on my watch...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:20 | 3669827 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Be your own first responder!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:24 | 3669838 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

What if the perps are wearing jockey silks too & talking on phones... It might be hard to ID & get a good shot...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:50 | 3669921 fourchan
fourchan's picture

blacks and mexicans, shoot them.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:10 | 3669991 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

I'd choose you!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:32 | 3670074 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

When seconds count the police are only minutes away.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:36 | 3670092 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

I got my G32.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:50 | 3670128 espirit
espirit's picture

You Loot, We Shoot.

Best to call 911 now, you're going to need it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:20 | 3670330 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

in the whole scheme of things this is relatively trivial, but the city in wisconsin is milwaukee not milwaukie: home of many magnificent machine tools, beers and at least one serious hitter of baseballs, hank aaron.

don't ignore spellcheck without knowing what you are doing.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:03 | 3670413 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

That may very well be, but it was OR not WI.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:53 | 3670467 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

good point.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 09:27 | 3671005 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

<insert foot>


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:57 | 3670152 imbtween
imbtween's picture

bla bla bla he-said she-said. The way eye sees it, between the transfer of goods to person A, and subsequent transfer of goods back to person B, we're talking $46000 in combined taxable capital gains. PAY MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:58 | 3670156 imbtween
imbtween's picture

dont try to hide, NSA already told IRS.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:19 | 3670207 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Oh c'mon. You're holding a precision piece, use more precision thinking.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:09 | 3669986 unrulian
unrulian's picture

if they're on their phone....dont worry...NSA has them

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:35 | 3669873 Midasking
Midasking's picture

All the DHS you need is a good GSD...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:46 | 3670268 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Not do fast, Quick-draw McGaw!  Gun laws vary greatly from state to state. 

In many states shooting is not the first resort, but last resort.  Read up on the laws in your state.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:45 | 3670381 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"In many states shooting is not the first resort, but last resort.  Read up on the laws in your state."

Unless you are a gun and badge thug (cop).

I think that that fixes that, or at least make it more correct, for 'ya.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:06 | 3670421 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Getting caught is the same in every state.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:59 | 3670404 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Probably a hell of a lot more effective and efficient having homeowners protecting their own blocks than a bunch of donut shop surfers who are just doing the minimum until they can collect their bloated public employee pensions.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:35 | 3669875 Telemakhos
Telemakhos's picture

Red, white and blue.  Very patriotic of you.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:39 | 3669889 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  This shit is beyond simple. I can't believe a thread is devoted?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:40 | 3669895 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  You couldn't  start a fire, if a blind midget `handed you a match!'

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:19 | 3670500 xtop23
xtop23's picture

They like, "little people", Yen. So un-PC :) You can expect lots of hate mail on very, very, small stationary in the future.

As far as GlockBlock goes, eh so so..... personally I think;

Prig, Sig, Dig, THEN Pig a much more appropriate criminal advisory.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:03 | 3669964 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

You can get that statue replaced. I've seen it available on the interwebs. But the current versions of the Obama statue are wearing MOM jeans.

It's good to want to protect yourself and all but make sure you don't use your Glock on a hoodie wearing black teen. You will get in trouble for that. Even if you were right.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:12 | 3669999 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Stealing lawn ornaments is kid stuff. Rock salt is the traditional ammo and fits the crime. 

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 02:45 | 3670559 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

Box o' Truth says:


Lessons learned:
1. At 20 yards, you might scare a dog or some other animal, but you sure wouldn't break the skin.

2. At 10 yards, you might break the skin with a couple of grains, but nothing very serious.

3. At 12 feet, you might get the desired effect, if the desired effect is to "burn" the target with the rock salt.

4. At 4 feet, you might cause a wound requiring a visit to a hospital for a human, or maybe death to a small animal.

5. Movie plots that show someone "burning" a bad guy at across-the-yard distances are hogwash.

6. Rock salt makes a pitiful personal defense load, as if we didn't already know that.

Got home and broke out the Tampax and soapy water, and got to work cleaning the barrel of the shotgun. I'm not going to take the chance of leaving salt deposits in the barrel. 

I then ran very hot water through the barrel and dried it completely. Then cleaned and oiled it as normal.

I then returned the plated 00 Buckshot to the magazine. If I ever have to "burn" a bad guy, he's not going to have any doubts or complaints about lack of penetration.

Shooting stuff is fun, even if it is something as silly as rock salt loads in a shotgun.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:17 | 3670319's picture


don't use your Glock on a hoodie wearing black teen. You will get in trouble for that. Even if you were right.


Another Democrat activist looking for liberal judge who will ignore the intent of the law.


"Well, simply because if you carefully read the statute, which most of the critics have not, and read the legislative analysis, there's nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue or confront other people. If anything, this law would have protected the victim in this case; it could have." -- Rep. Dennis Baxley (R), author of the Stand Your Ground Law

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:56 | 3670398 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture


You can pursue anyone.  You can ask any person what they are doing.  That does not give the person pursued or questioned the right to respond to your pursuit or your question with violence.


The Florida statute is pretty simple in that a person may use deadly force when he has reason to believe that his life is in danger or he is in danger of serious bodily injury.  


Should you find yourself on the ground with an unknown assailant pounding your face into the dirt, it would be reasonable to assume that you believed that you were in danger of serious bodily injury.


The moral of the story is be polite.  Here in Florida a statistically important portion of the population is packing heat.



Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:51 | 3670420's picture

You can not pursue anyone. Chase me down the street and I'll learn you better.

Zimmerman did not ask Martin any questions. After being chased by vehicle and on foot Martin asked Zimmerman, "Do you have a problem" and Zimmerman said "No" while he reached for something in his jacket. That's Zimmerman's own account. Learn the facts.

What would you do if someone chased you, cornered you, refused to say why they were chasing you and then reached for something? In Florida such a scenario gives you the right to use deadly force to defend yourself by way of the Stand Your Ground Law.

The authors of the Stand Your Ground Law back Martin and not Zimmerman. Of course, I don't expect you Democrat activists to understand what self defense is all about.

"Well, simply because if you carefully read the statute, which most of the critics have not, and read the legislative analysis, there's nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue or confront other people. If anything, this law would have protected the victim in this case; it could have. -- Rep. Dennis Baxley (R), co-author of the Stand Your Ground Law.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 04:21 | 3670598 Spanky
Spanky's picture


And tip of my hat.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 07:14 | 3670677 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Stand your ground is not being pled.  Self defense is being pled.  Different concepts.  

If you are being pursued you have the same rights as the person pursuing you.  You can ask them why they are following you and you can alert them that their behavior is placing you in fear.  You can dial 911. You do not have the right to resort to violence simply because you are being followed.




Wed, 06/19/2013 - 10:52 | 3671320 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

You are exactly right.

Martin should have asked Zimmerman what he was doing. As it turns out, Zimmerman had already given up following Martin and was returning to his car when Martin attacked Zimmerman, not realizing that Zimmerman had a gun.

Several witnesses confirm zimmermans account as does the physical wounds Zimmerman recieved from Martins assault.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 12:08 | 3671678's picture



Martin should have asked Zimmerman what he was doing.


As I said before, Martin did ask Zimmerman what he was doing. After chasing Martin down the street in his vehicle Zimmerman got out of the Vehicle and cornered Martin. Martin said, "Do you have a problem?" That was Zimmerman's opportunity to say, "I'm a self-appointed neighborhood watchman and I think you're suspicious even though you've done nothing wrong and the police are on their way." But Zimmerman said no such thing. He responded to Martin by saying "no" and reaching into his jacket.


Can you honestly tell me that if someone chased you down the street, cornered you, refused to say why they were chasing you and then reached for something you'd just stand there and hope for the best? I wouldn't. The law guarantees my right, your right and Trayvon Martins right to self defense in such a situation.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 12:01 | 3671651's picture



If you are being pursued you have the same rights as the person pursuing you. 


No you don't. Chasing people in the dead of night and then appearing to pull a weapon on them is a criminal act. The Stand Your Ground Law says that if you have an expectation that a felony is going to be committed against you you have the right to use deadly force to prevent that from happening. It makes no difference what Zimmerman pleads, the right to self defense belonged to Martin according to the authors of the law. Martin had a legal right to do exactly what he did.



2011 Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE[22]

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:49 | 3670465 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Yeah well, I had my 'Obama in jockey silks' statue stolen off my front lawn...


Prolly some dumbshit Zappa fan or a disgruntled African-American (tho, statistically, prolly a Zappa fan).

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 12:55 | 3671906 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Dumbshit Zappa fan?

I would argue that real Frankophiles are generally above average intelligence.

Zappa for president!

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 02:04 | 3670540 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

A little Obama Jockey?  Does it have a matching "Obamaphone" with it?  Btw,if you need firepower, try these links:

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:32 | 3669859 BlueStreet
BlueStreet's picture

Homeowners need tanks here in Chicago, a Glock just won't do. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:49 | 3670124 NvrGivUp
NvrGivUp's picture

CHICAGO--- Part of Potus's last stomping ground?... Going from bad to worse... home security in Chicago is no kids game. Private security firms popping up, probably hiring thugs to protect you from thugs... The next decade is going to be very enlightening, especially in the big metro areas where the haves will hire the have nots to protect them from the even more desperate have nots.  Selfish to say, but kinda glad I'm over the hill and enjoyed a comparitively safe ride while it lasted. Now, I find myself helping my kids secure themselves best we can for what's probably coming...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:14 | 3670321 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Get out of the city.  The laws are more sane in the (non Near North) 'burbs and chances are better of having at least some like minded neighbors.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:47 | 3669911 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

Let's see how it works out for George Zimmerman

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:52 | 3670135 espirit
espirit's picture

Near there, he screwed up.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:08 | 3670309 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

... sez he he must not be familiar with the actual facts of the case ...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:20 | 3670332's picture

By Zimmerman's own words he's as guilty as sin. People have a right to defend themselves against scum like Zimmerman. That's what the law says.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:15 | 3670431 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

It sounds like if you had a son he would look like Trayvon. One less porch monkey that mid-class taxpayers foot the bill for.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:13 | 3670438's picture

It sounds to me like you can't understand a simple law written by white Republicans.


"Well, simply because if you carefully read the statute, which most of the critics have not, and read the legislative analysis, there's nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue or confront other people. If anything, this law would have protected the victim in this case; it could have. -- Rep. Dennis Baxley(R), co-author of the Stand Your Ground Law.


Is your prejudice so strong that the concept of self defense escapes you entirely? All those who want Zimmerman to come to their neighborhood and murder their house guests feel free to downvote.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 04:25 | 3670600 Spanky
Spanky's picture



Men of principle are rare and ought be coveted.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 10:55 | 3671325 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

As  long as the house guests dont jump anyone and beat their heads in, there is no need to shoot.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 12:13 | 3671706's picture

The authors of the Stand Your Ground Law said Martin had a right to defend himself against the threat posed by Zimmerman. But you seem to think that a criminal has a right to kill a citizen who is defending himself in accordance to the law. You are wrong.

Read this again and see if you can get your head around it:


BAXLEY: Well, simply because if you carefully read the statute, which most of the critics have not, and read the legislative analysis, there's nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue or confront other people. If anything, this law would have protected the victim in this case; it could have.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 12:17 | 3691471 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

But you seem to think that a criminal has a right to kill a citizen who is defending himself in accordance to the law. You are wrong.

No I am not wrong on this point and you seem to agree with me. The criminal (Martin) had no right to kill Zimmerman.

And to clarify something you seem confused about; the 'stand your ground laws' are meant to allow people to defend themselves rather than flee. It isnt about typical self defense law at all.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:47 | 3670269 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

For those that need instruction on how to properly clean a Glock:


MALE viewers only, please.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:10 | 3670311 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Definitely MUST SEE TeeVee ...

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:16 | 3670494 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

I had to sign into my google account to watch.  Now the NSA knows that I like both Glocks and hot women in lingerie.  Drat.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:09 | 3669785 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Honey trap.  Night 'yall.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:09 | 3669786 Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture


Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:28 | 3670221 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The Left calls the state OREGUN, the Right calls it OREGANO.  Both sides think there are too many of the other.

My Oregon friends keep plenty of both on hand.  And plenty of Oregon micro-brew.  ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:12 | 3669792 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I don't deny that neighborhood watch groups are forming up.  However, the notion that violent crime is increasing nationally is not in the data I see.

Furthermore, my brother works for a crime lab in my state.  He recently commented to me that he is "out of work" at his shop.

Let's not bend facts to suit or view of the world.  The facts, stated correctly, are powerful enough on their own.

Just sayin'...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:14 | 3669801 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Brother Cdad, if you want to learn from a master, let me give you this.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:58 | 3669949 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Cdad - did you ever stop and think that police aren't investigating crimes like they used to? In Detroit the police are on duty only 8 hours a day, violent crimes are being solved at a less than 10% rate. Just because crime might be going up doesn't mean crime investigations are following.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:07 | 3669981 nmewn
nmewn's picture


You're absolutely correct. Crime rates are going down. Its also correct, more states have reciprocity laws in place for concealed carry...Illinois being the lone hold out.

Track both on a graph, crime rates per state and a state relaxing gun laws.

An armed society is a polite society ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:48 | 3670121 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Ill-annoy passed a concealed carry law.  Didn't want to, but a Federal judge forced them.  It was that or have Constitutional Carry.  Heh heh.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:05 | 3670141 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I stand corrected ;-)

"Feb. 22, 2013 - Today the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals announced they will not accept the IL Attorney General's appeal to rehear the case of Moore/Shepard vs Madigan. The court's ruling that the ban on carrying a firearm in public for self defense is unconstitutional stands.
The Attorney General has the option of appealing the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court. Meanwhile, the 180 day clock to pass a Right to Carry law keeps ticking toward June 9, 2013"


To my lone junker (so I don't live in Illinois...its just as he said, they were brought kicking and screaming to reality...

“We all know but for the Constitution and the federal court, we might not be here today,” said Sen. Bill Brady, R-Bloomington. “I think what’s most important is like 49 other states in the nation, the citizens of  Illinois will enjoy a right and will become comfortable with because we crafted a good law, at least as a start.”

Try and get over yourself or at least reveal your cowardly self ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:22 | 3670340 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

It's not law in IL yet.  The IL Atty General put a delay on the gov signing the bill in order to let municipalities try to pass some local home rule stricter "assault weapon" control measures before the new law takes effect.  More posturing and BS to follow no doubt...

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 04:39 | 3670606 Spanky
Spanky's picture


An armed society is a polite society ;-) -- nmewn


My father recently got a concealed carry permit.

He seemed tickled that, when stopped by a trooper, the officer immediately noted he had a concealed permit and asked if he had a weapon. My father answered yes, signed the ticket and continued on his way. The trooper seemed "more respectful" he thought.

Hello? Ya'll say you're worried about the NSA tracking emails?

Stay the fuck out of databases. All databases. Esp. those databases.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 06:04 | 3670630 Room 101
Room 101's picture

There are some within the gun owning community who don't bother to get a permit and carry openly instead.  Basically of the view that they shouldn't need to purchase a permit to exercise a right.  And they don't want to be in a de facto gunowners database. I sympathize with their point of view, but also think that the risk is fairly minimal compared to the advantage of being able to carry concealed.  There are also a whole lot of people in those databases.  There is some strength in numbers.   

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 13:22 | 3672020 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Silly rabbit... but tasty.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:31 | 3670066 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Violent crime may not be going up, but property crimes seem to be.

There are some very well-organized copper thieves in my area.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:38 | 3670521 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

If they need it, I have some copper for them.  If they wouldn't mind separating the lead later, it sure would be a great help.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:35 | 3670089 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

CDAD, I recently thwarted a home invasion by blockading the front door with my body as the intruders tried to violently enter my home as my wife and I sat quietly sipping wine and discussing things in a quiet manner on a friday night. I can only thank the gods that I was not asleep and chose to sit up and talk with her, as things panned out, it mattered immensly. I can tell you I had but a mere three seconds to decide to do my best, which was to blockade the door with my body to stop 'them' from coming in, which i instictivly knew would change the whole situation. I screamed hollow threats of " come thruogh this door and I'll blow your fucking head off" as I had nothing in my hands, to my great dismay! My girl ran to call 911, the dispatcher instructed her to retreat to a room with a lockable door as she explained that she was concerned for my safety,still, the dispatcher suggested she save herself. Thankfully the intruders decided to leave, we were spared. The cops did show up in about five minutes, by that time, I was outside looking around and trying to find damage to the front door. They did'nt take a report, but did ask for my name and DOB, which I quickly gave, knowing (hoping) thier database would rule me out as the intruder! Anyway, fast forward, I quietly mentioned around to the locals what had happened if only as a warning to be extra cautious ( the reasons for my 'subtllty as opposed to screaming to the rafters is another story), turns out the local police did not register  this as a home invasion. It seems for them statistics matter, all is well. After this affair, I personally question the official "DATA"...just sayin'...P.S. at that moment, I was really wishing I had a gun to protect me and mine

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:49 | 3670127 nmewn
nmewn's picture

There was a guy here, sitting in his lounger watching TV.

Some dude came up and started beating on his sliding glass door, he couldn't understand him, he (the trespasser) was Mexican...not that it matters...outside of what he was screaming about WHILE BEATING ON HIS SLIDING GLASS DOOR.

The homeowner retrieved a shotgun and stood in front of the interloper with it on the other side of the glass...the screaming and pounding continued...he aimed...the screaming & pounding continued.

No one to this day knows why the guy picked this house (a remote area) to go running up into the carport and start beating on the glass.

All we know for sure, is that he is dead now.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:06 | 3670178 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Nwewn, that fella had a glass door and still he made the choise, I had a solid door, no visual, it scares the heck out of you. The cops would have been very late had the intruders been "serious"!  There is no reason to feel safe in the current paradigm

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:33 | 3670232 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

whoopsing - glad to hear you and your family are o.k.  Why don't you own a firearm to protect your loved ones ?  Are you in a location where that is made difficult ?

There are many places where only a complete fool would attempt a home invasion.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:24 | 3670343 whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

It's not easy in NY to have  a pistol, a shotgun or perhaps a rifle legally is no big deal. I've never felt a need to own one, I was damn lucky this time. I'm thinking I misjudged the odds, still, to me it's a question of accessability, think three seconds, not alot of time, a sidearm would have been nice, but who carries while chilling on a friday night? I suppose this big picture reality added to the foolishness.I'm not a victim or a target, but I've changed in my mind what it means to me to be secure. Thanks for the concern

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 03:30 | 3670577 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You obviously need a stronger door, and an alarm system throughout the house because they usually never come in thru the front door, and a shotgun not a pistol.  I don't know why you would even consider a sidearm for home defense.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:29 | 3670240 nmewn
nmewn's picture

No, no, don't misunderstand.

He had the opportunity and the substance (the firearm) to do what he did. I find no fault in either actions...the end result is both innocent parties (his & his/you & yours) lived to tell the tale.

Either way is fine...its just that, in my real world example, he won't be beating on anymore doors at night.

We all will do what we feel is right for the situation. I may have tried to talk with the guy...may have...another may not.

The unknown intruder lays himself before the mercy of the homeowner always, whether he thinks so or not...he/they are in fact, fair game for whatever happens, they provoked it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:23 | 3670218 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Really? The guy could have been screaming that there was someone raping his wife and he needed help.  Having a shotgun at that range gives you a lot more options than firing.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 03:36 | 3670578 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Tru dat.  A shotty, and a door between them.  What was the urgency about killing him?

A man who can fight with his fists sees a lot less need to use lethal force.  Incidentally.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 05:52 | 3670624 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

pointing a shotgun at someone is universal sign language for "no."

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 07:05 | 3670668 nmewn
nmewn's picture


No language barrier.

It could have been worse when you think about it...we let our dogs run loose on our properties out here "in the sticks" and seven times out of ten they're pit bulls.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:54 | 3670145 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Other "official 'DATA'" I question is this claim that police budgets are "being slashed." From what I can tell, they're all about as big as ever, and maybe even bigger; it's just that the money is not going to employ police. The problem is that the system is/was predicated on this belief that, every year, like clockwork, every government budget would increase by 10% or more, and when it doesn't, well, we'll make the public suffer so they'll go along with our "it's for the children" tax increases.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:15 | 3670199 Matt
Matt's picture

No one claimed the budgets are being slashed, just the service. Defined pension plans + public sector unions + ZIRP. Only way out is municipal bankruptcy.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:19 | 3670314 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

 I question is this claim that police budgets are "being slashed."...


I tend to agree.  I haven't read all the comments, etc. here, but my understanding is this part of Oregon has had the historical benefit of federal timber sales that have been slashed due to economic and political decisions.  They built their infrastucture with the expectation these funds would flow in perpetuitiy and reality has taken root instead.

Having lived and worked in the lumber industry in Douglas county, Oregon in my youth, I can say it is a strange mix of what many would consider hard core right and left idealogies, many times under the same roofs.  Age, gender, makes no difference, they're all over the map.  Pretty interesting place imo.   (Great hunting and fishing too) 

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:17 | 3670434 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Hi Boxed, Grade school in Coos County, High school in Curry. 
Yeah, my Dad was a logger... 

Oregon Coast still wonderous - flew up from Eureka to Florence last summer low and slow in a Piper Cub - just beautiful. One o these summers, gonna make it to Astoria and back.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:14 | 3670428 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Remington 870.

Best $200 in threshold defense you will ever spend.

Leave screaming to your girls.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 08:43 | 3670862 ajax
ajax's picture



@whoopsing "It seems for them (the police) statistics matter,": you can say that again mate! Get yourself a dvd copy of the David Simon/Ed Burns Masterpiece otherwise known as the series "The Wire" to see just how and why all police everywhere "juke the stats"... By the way sir, congratulations on thwarting the bad guys and happy to hear you and your family are alright - albeit seriously shook up. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:12 | 3669793 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Cool, but do they know that a sidearm is only for a) showing off and b) fighting your way to the nearest rifle/carbine/smg/shotgun.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:14 | 3669799 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Yes...'cause they all play Call of Duty.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:16 | 3669810 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

naw.. in the movies you hold it sideways and put a cap in dat ass after a few choice words back and forth talkin about the pain you living in from all your dead homies and how u gonna git up outta here or die tryin



Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:29 | 3669855 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

This is what I'm talking about.  You general commentators really need to attend The Appleseed Project.  If there's not one in your general neck of the woods, that means you are already under occupation.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:27 | 3670234 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You're mistaken if you think people here haven't a clue.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 02:38 | 3670554 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The Appleseed Project?  I think you meant to say Project Appleseed, which teaches rifle marksmanship.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:05 | 3670177 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

Holding your weapon sideways is just the first step. You need to watch

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:25 | 3670230 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Not bad for a couple of guys who are obviously not in the entertainment business.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 05:27 | 3670618 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Works better when u cap da ass first, then use a few choice words about homie din have no choice... an dat other mofo died tryin'

jus sayin' cuz

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:20 | 3669826 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Clint Smith +1. Damn, I said I would duck out.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:25 | 3669841 squidward
squidward's picture

Yes and why bother with the conceal carry when Oregon is open carry, especially in a pro-gun neighborhood. 


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:15 | 3670015 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

From clothing to cars to weapons, discrete extends the time you have to react/retreat/respond by not drawing attention to yourself.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:24 | 3670050 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Yes, a lot of tactical experts think that Open Carry is a bad idea because it gives up the element of surprise.  I say that misses the point: the idea of self defense is that you and yours go home safe and sound. Most criminals are opportunists.  They aren't looking to tangle with someone who they can see is armed.  Guns save lives primarily because they act as a deterrent. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:51 | 3670130 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Low hanging fruit.  Even in the Apocalypse the deranged and desperate will go for the low hanging fruit.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:48 | 3670273 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Key take away: avoid the deranged and desperate when you can. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:30 | 3670355 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

Open carry has nothing to do with self-defense or preparedness, only appearance.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 06:14 | 3670633 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Open carry has EVERYTHING to do with self-defense.  Self-defense is ultimately the act(s) that you take to prevent violence to yourself and those you care about.  And, only if necessary,increase your ability to respond to violence should you be unfortunate enough to encounter it.  Using violence (fists, knives, guns, etc) is and should be a last resort to protect yourself and those you care about.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:54 | 3670139 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You underestimate the psychosis of the criminal mind. Some violent sociopaths will actively target someone who they perceive threatens their dominance. An openly displayed weapon is considered a challenge to this type.

Concealed weapons actually act as a deterrent to the violent sociopath, in two ways. First, in an environment where it is known that many people might be carrying a weapon, it generally disrupts their threat assessment capabilities. Second, these types of people count on speed and surprise to make their attacks work once they identify and target their victim. When the intended victim produces a weapon unexpectedly, the element of surprise is turned against them, which can cause them to break off the attack in progress.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:55 | 3670290 Room 101
Room 101's picture

And with respect, I think you overestimate the number of murderous psychopaths that you're likely to run into.  The plain truth is if you're unlucky enough to run into a William Matix looking to do you harm, chances are you aren't going to survive the encounter.  Concealed carry or open.

There is a long standing debate between those who prefer Open Carry and those who carry concealed.  And we aren't going to resolve it tonite.  And to a certain extent I find it a funny debate to have.  Neither side disagrees with the basic point that you should carry a gun.  


Wed, 06/19/2013 - 05:56 | 3670626 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Sociopaths and psychopaths make up 1-3% of the population. However, they are way, way over-represented among the criminal class. If you encounter a criminal, odds are decent that they will be a violent sociopath.

Anyways, as you said, the main point is to HAVE a gun when you need one, no matter which way it's carried.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 12:59 | 3671921 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

By criminal class you meant politicians right?

Sociopaths are often very smart and attracted to unlimited no strings attached power.


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:52 | 3670282 nc551
nc551's picture

I'm torn on this.  I conceal in the city and wear a duty style safariland locking holster (i love safariland) in the country or woods.  The time to draw and point with an open carry holster like this almost nothing whereas concealed will always take a little extra time to get at.  With the shithole cities i'd be concerned about the meandering zombies snapping out of nowhere at the weapon as you walk down the street (they are generally everywhere eyeing everyone who doesn't look as depressed as the average citizen in these hellholes).   When I leave work late at night for the walk to the parking lot I usually have a gun in my hand right inside my laptop bag.  I love laptop bag carry.  Might look a little weird with your hand in there but you are basically ready to go and can release it and pull your hand out like nothing on the days there happen to be cops hanging out in the parking lot.  I work in a shady area.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:26 | 3670337 nc551
nc551's picture

As a side note, this is an amazing super short essay on gun carry.

Carrying a gun concealed or not allows you to be unafraid.  Confidence carries and simply having a gun in my possession makes me not worry as much when a few thugs walking accross the street stop and stare for a moment.  This slight confidence boost may be the deterring factor in even being approached.

I shoot a LOT for practice on my land and generally feel prepared to handle anything but over the last few years my confidence has been shaken by incidences like Zimmerman and many others.  My biggest fear is having to put down a pack of minors armed with fists and feet who are out to put people into critical care at the hospital because they are bored.  Justifiable use of defensive force: yes  Politically accepted: pray yes

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 06:23 | 3670638 Room 101
Room 101's picture

If legal where you live, you should try Open Carry and see how it works for you.  Fair's a little weird at first, and you think that you have a huge neon sign around your neck.  You don't, and you'll find out that most people don't even notice that you're carrying. 

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 11:11 | 3671388 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

I used to open carry a lot, but I almost walked into my kids school with medicine she needed and realized as I was starting to get out of the car...this weird thing sticking into my side was my Glock. OOOps.

With concealed carry, if you fuck up and forget about the fact you have the gun because you are focused on something else, well, uyou might be able to fake your way out of the situation pretending nothing was wrong.

Open carry does not allow for that.

I only carry concealed now.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 06:07 | 3670631 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

the argument that people can use surprise as a self defense tactic is absolute garbage, and the reason should be completely self-evident.  granted, if ENOUGH people had concealed carry permits, sure it would makes a big difference.  

you are very correct that the overwhelming majority of bad guys will look elsewhere for an easier victim rather than going after the dude with a piece strapped on his hip out in the open.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:32 | 3670070 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Why bother with concealed carry in any neighborhood when you can Open Carry?  Concealed carry is definitely traveling second class in my view.  There are some places where you need to carry concealed, but those are few.  

Short list of the advantages of Open Carry over concealed:

1.  No expensive, uncomfortable holsters that print anyway.

2.   No more teeny tiny mouseguns.  

3.  You get better customer service when you're out and about.

4.  You get panhandled a lot less.

5. You get into some great conversations with nice people who share your views. 

6. For the rare hoplophobe you run into, you get to put their knickers in a twist. 




Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:35 | 3670085 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture


Also, I can't help but mention, I've read halfway through the comments and no one has resurrected the Glock vs 1911 argument, something I really expected to happend given the title of the article.

BTW, Glocks suck, and 1911's rule.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:56 | 3670142 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Naaah.  I won't junk ya but 1911's are jam-happy pieces of shit.  I like a gun that you can point and it shoots.  Glocks do that right out of the box. Getting a 1911 to rise to that level of utility requires you to bring along a gunsmith as an accessory.  

Any gun is better than none.  But a 1911 is pushing it.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:21 | 3670503 whotookmyalias
whotookmyalias's picture

LOL. Really?  Or did you forget the /sarc?


I have a Rock Island 1911 and it's been flawless.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 06:29 | 3670642 Room 101
Room 101's picture

No.  Personal preference.  I simply don't like 1911's. I find them jam-happy, I don't like the funky safety, and think you can get a more reliable glock or revolver for less money. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:10 | 3670187 espirit
espirit's picture

While I tend to agree (on the pucker factor), carrying a 1911 eight to ten hours a day as a tool will wear you down.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:33 | 3670249 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Yeah.  I forgot that.  1911's are heavy.  Why not just carry a cinderblock on your hip?  You can always thow it at an assailant.  Which is what you'll probably end up doing with your  1911 after it  jams.  

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:15 | 3670197 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Guess I forgot the sarc tag. Obviously every type of firearm is best-suited to different scenarios and needs. That being said, keeping a long gun/shotgun in reach really can't hurt.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:15 | 3669800 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

What's underneath the surface is that only major crimes are reported; purse and jewelry thefts, attempted or actual rapes, assaults are commonplace in big box store parking lots at night.  I don't let my women go out at night anymore even though I've taught them situational awareness.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:53 | 3669932 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Crime has already increased, to the extent that over 1 million attempted assaults, home invasions, rapes, burglaries, car and other thefts - are thwarted annually by armed defenders (FBI and other studies).  Since police do not take such reports, and nothing  reaches the local news, morons like Biden can pontificate that 'if just 1 child's life is saved' by disarming 200 million Americans, it is worth it.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:19 | 3669802 One And Only
One And Only's picture


PRISM the shit out of them and get the IRS goon squad to audit their asses. Investigate them until they fucking die. Traitors.

I bet they use bitcoin too. Baby rapers.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:33 | 3669868 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

How about we put the corrupt politicians in Detroit at dusk and tell'em good luck.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:40 | 3669891 squidward
squidward's picture

And no Snake Plissken to save them either.  

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:15 | 3669804 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Cost of a good bullet, less than a buck. Incarceration of one inmate, 30-60k a year.

You can hire a lot of teachers & firefighters for that ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:18 | 3669817 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Do it for "the kids"...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:55 | 3669940 franzpick
franzpick's picture

That's hillaryious.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:18 | 3669818 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  The cost of a good bullet?  Good on ya nmewn.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:19 | 3669824 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Firefighters sure. Teacehrs, keep'em. Most of them barely know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:26 | 3669843 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It was more of a pre-emptive strike on our regular Firedoglake cooing commenters ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:35 | 3669877 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Cumbaya, bitches!!


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:47 | 3669909 nmewn
nmewn's picture


I noticed James down below talking about predators picking out ladies at gas stations, parking lots etc...they should be wife will shoot them graveyard dead with her only thought being where the blood splatter ends up.

Its all about the angle ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:59 | 3669948 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I wish my wife would worry about blood splatter, the bad guy better hope she has a malfunction otherwise he's gonna end up with a belly full o' lead cause the wife is gonna keep squeezen' till it won't go no more...


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:17 | 3670026 nmewn
nmewn's picture

She sounds like a smart woman...when that instance is staring her in the face, she knows they are not inviting her someplace innocent, where they'll share a few common laughs, they'll pick up the tab, treat her like a lady and part as new found friends.

Its the time to shoot them in the face with no remorse...and when its over, for her to realize, they were about to do the same to her, once they were done with her.

Its just the way it is with animals.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:26 | 3669847 ifishivote
ifishivote's picture

hire more teachers to push their liberal views.. no thanks. Most teachers are useless. I know plenty that have no idea at whats going on in the world or their own town.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:19 | 3670031 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

What's with all thes liberal cesspools? You'd think they would have learned by now.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:16 | 3670202 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

The allure of what sounds good, over what is known to work, is enormous.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:31 | 3669860 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



LOL ... use a wood chipper - feet first of course to savour their agony.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:16 | 3669808 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

What? Honest people?

C'Mon, get with the program

Obama is in office and Holder is your att Gen.


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:28 | 3669850 James
James's picture

I live in the Tampa - Clearwater - St. Petersburg area of Florida.

Seems the bangers have a new initiation rite of passage. They are jumping into the back seat of womens cars when the women are looking away fueling their cars, loading groceries, at parks, anywhere and then taking them to a gang house to do harm to them. Warn the women to look inside before getting in.

And bangers, If I catch you I will fuck you up so bad you'll wish you died as a child.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:40 | 3669894 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Shoot them in the balls.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:03 | 3669968 franzpick
franzpick's picture

In desert cities CA the last gang initiation involved breaking all the rear windows of cars parked outside at night along a 4 block residential area in the opposing gang's turf, and the realtors and business owners were probably responsible for keeping it out of the news.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:18 | 3670032 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Shoot them in the balls.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:01 | 3670162 Room 101
Room 101's picture

Naaaah.  You shoot to stop the aggressor, not to cause harm.  The harm is an unfortunate side effect.  I might note, though, that the pelvis is a very effective area for shot placement. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:52 | 3670281 BeansBulletsBandaids
BeansBulletsBandaids's picture

Head and hips.

Oh wait..... That's for other bad guys.....

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:55 | 3670536 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Just being funny. I wish to never shoot anyone.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!