This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Google Challenges Surveillance Gag Order: Squares NSA Secrecy Against First Amendment

Tyler Durden's picture


It appears that unlike the president, whose rating is plunging in the aftermath of PRISM-gate, US corporations are not eager to double down on their privacy intrusive ways, and some are becoming increasingly concerned about what all the recent exposure may do to their bottom line. Such as Google, which earlier today became only the first company to challenge the long-standing gag order issued by the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA), arguing that the company has a First Amendment right to speak about information it is forced to give to the government. From Google: "Greater transparency is needed, so today we have petitioned the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to allow us to publish aggregate numbers of national security requests, including FISA disclosures, separately." And yes, GOOG, which once upon a time pretended its motto is "don't evil" and since transformed it to "be evil, just don't get caught", still refer to "constitutional rights" - how quaint.

From WaPo:

The legal filing, which cites the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech, is the latest move by the California-based tech giant to protect its reputation in the aftermath of news reports about sweeping National Security Agency surveillance of Internet traffic.

Google, one of nine companies named in NSA documents as providing information to the top-secret PRISM program, has demanded that U.S. officials give it more leeway to describe the company’s relationship with the government. Google and the other companies involved have sought to reassure users that their privacy is being protected from unwarranted intrusions.

It is not as if Google is even requesting much: in the petition, filed with the FISA court in downtown Washington, Google is seeking permission to publish the total numbers of requests the court makes of the company and the numbers of user accounts they affect. The company long has made regular reports with regard to other data demands from the U.S. government and from other governments worldwide. Basically, this would at least put the FISA court's data demands on equal footing with all other judicial entities. But we can't have that now, can we, or else the terrorists win.

That information would not necessarily shed much light on PRISM, whose existence was first reported by The Washington Post and Britain’s Guardian newspaper. But initiating a high-profile legal showdown may help Google’s efforts to portray itself as aggressively resisting government surveillance.

More importantly, it will now start an arms, or rather words race, between US corporations, in which the company that does not seek to emulate the "truth-telling" overtures of others, will be seen as the one most willing to handover user privacy to a secret organization without a fight. Which to internet companies means less users, less eyeballs, less clicking lifeblood. And most importantly, less top and bottom line.

All of the technology companies involved in PRISM, including Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, Google and Yahoo, have struggled to respond to the revelations about NSA surveillance. Most have issued carefully word denials, saying that they do not permit wholesale data collection while acknowledging that they comply with legal government information requests.

So now the ball is in the administration's court which will have no choice but to reject the demand, or else find itself bombarded on all sides by enjoinders from all other internet companies. Which in turn will put Obama in an even more unpleasant place: against the companies.

Because if anything, at least until this point he could spin the ever-escalating scandal as one in which the US was collaborating with an very eager private sector. This will very soon no longer be the case.

And if the accelerating of PRISM-gate means further loss of revenues and profits for some of the biggest companies in the world as a result of Obama's resolute defense of his Dubya legacy inheritance which he has succeeded in putting on steroids, then we would most certainly open a long private sector, short Obama pair trade.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:34 | 3669674 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Monkey see< Monkey do>

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:42 | 3669696 knukles
knukles's picture

Poo flinging for comedic entertainment and propaganda purposes... well, OK, I over state my case... just perceptions management....

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:43 | 3669703 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Spare me any too late rhetorical defense of the Constitution from Google.  I'm not long lip service or Google shares...and neither should anyone else be.

Good grief.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:07 | 3669779 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Rats flee sinking ships.

Everyone will rush to make their hands as 'clean' as possible.

We've already seen Rahm Emanuel, Geithner and soon Bernanke flee... 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:36 | 3669878 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I'm not buying the whole "Google as defender of liberty" thing.  AFAIAC Google is an NSA front company.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:08 | 3670182 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Time is ripe for a new search engine to replace Google.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:43 | 3670265 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Google is in fact a 14th Amendment person, just as any "freed" negro slave.  They can in fact claim the 1st Amendment right (actually privilege) of the Constitution of the United States (BTW, I challenge anyone to find a copy of the 1871 US Constitution online...if you do, let me know) as Google is a juristic person (i.e. an entity with rights, privileges, duties and obligations).

Just thought I'd throw this out there.  Those who are paying attention get it.

I am Chumbawamba.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:47 | 3670271 Renfield
Renfield's picture

It's about time you showed up!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:50 | 3670276 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

A little beer for the boys at the NSA and FBI?


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:47 | 3670379 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

yes.  these fuckwads have no idea what is coming their way when the disinflationary or hyperinflationary (i have both stock puts and silver miners) depression reasserts itself.  bad shit in any case.

karl marx had a point.  unchallenged corporate power is hideous and popular control of government can, on occasion, ameliorate things. 

but, almost too much to bear, when the costs of political campaigns for democratic election become so expensive that the powers of the government are sold for a pittance to the same hideous powers, it truly is a small but significant consolation that what remains of the marketplace gives the sad muppets a tiny countervailing force with which to modestly discipline the owners of the now utterly corrupt protectors and defenders of our constitution.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:06 | 3670422 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Wait, this is on the Atlantic? heh

I thought the Atlantic loved them some Bark Oblammo. Mind you I haven't really looked at it since the last U.S. elections, and can't say I really read it before, either. I'm not up these days on MSM publications. I had to check that it was indeed the Atlantic twice during the article, and reading thru some of the comments I thought I'd landed back here on the Hedge.

I guess this means the peasants really are revolting - or at least, grazing much less easily. I wonder if we'll see another 'protest' year like 2008 was. (Remember how the Bankster Bailout united the so-called 'left' with the so-called 'right', albeit the sheep promptly ran back to their respective pens for the 'election'.)

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:51 | 3670464 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Think they might pick door number three, if... they only had a choice?

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:11 | 3670490 Freddie
Freddie's picture

F Google!   Use or or or even

Google seems a little concerned that people will stop using their spy bot shit services.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 09:38 | 3671070 Variance Doc
Variance Doc's picture

+1E100  Use the alternate engines!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:25 | 3670231 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

"Foreign" intelligence surveillance, eh? A new government oxymoron.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:18 | 3669814 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Regarding Google, when this story first broke I logged into my two main GMail accounts and deleted all but 30 days worth of email. It was a big pain in the ass doing inbox, sent, and some other folders I found. Tons of Google chat history too. Purged it all. They did not make it easy, nor entirely obvious.

It was difficult at first because I always think I might need an old copy of something, but now that it is all gone I don't think it was such a big deal.

Not sure what the policy is as far as Google keeping a copy of something from 10 years ago which I delete today.



Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:06 | 3670166 Spanky
Spanky's picture

To: Cooter

From: The Google Team

re: email, chat and file deletions

Don't worry, we have backup copies stored for you.

Have a nice day!

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 10:12 | 3671201 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

We store it in the Cloud to be sure we have transparency.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:46 | 3670383 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Goog saves your emotionally-heated auto-saves that you never sent -- indefinitely.   

Every key-stroke.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:56 | 3670370 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

You are more right than I'll bet even you are aware of.

Google and the other Fascist government mammary suckers have lied to all of their clients - the ones that pay the bills.

Businesses, local governments and even people themselves are ditching these "services."  There is not a prudent business that isn't looking for a "cloud-exit" from these fucks.

You read it here first.  Whispers in small circles say numbers could get bad -- really bad.

Short all Fascist "ghost in every closet" corporations doing the bidding for Crony-terror-state Inc.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:17 | 3670499 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hopefully from your lips to God's ears - brother.

I hope people start to run away from these eye spy bot shit companies.

I want to start setting up LINUX machines that don't phone home back to Redmond, Cupertino, Langley, Fort Meade, Bluffdale, Utah, San Antonio (NSA other big center) every 10 seconds.  

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 02:48 | 3670525 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Aye, if ever one's sailed in pirate seas...

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:39 | 3670522 Spanky
Spanky's picture

You read it here first. -- Widowmaker

Thanks for the tip...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:52 | 3669740 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Has no one caught the question dodge by the NSA director??

He was asked: "Does the NSA have the ability to listen to average Americans phone calls and e-mails?"

The response was: " No, we do not have the authority to do that".

The question was, do you have the ABILITY?

The answer was, we do not have the AUTHORITY.

So, no answer on the ABILITY part, because they obviously have the fucking ABILITY, or we wouldn't be here right now then would we?

I have it on recording, i have watched it about 20 times. I have had other people watch it with me to confirm what was said.

When you have the ABILITY to do something, you do not need authority to .exe

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:37 | 3669880 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Good catch and interesting as well.

He basically said that they do not have the "AUTHORITY," and so my ears tell me that he admitted that he and all the rest involved have been and are criminally recording everyone's conversations.

Now of course, we, the people, have the authority but not yet the ability to bring the criminals to the guillotine.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 00:38 | 3670455 mkhs
mkhs's picture

They don't have the authority, so they do not infringe your rights.  Afterall, that is what Boozy Allen Hamilton is for.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:05 | 3670307 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

consistent with all the whistleblowers

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:20 | 3670502 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The other game they play is the Brits spy on American citizens and the USA spys on the Brits to get around the laws.  They obviously make the ino available to each other.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:35 | 3669677 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:37 | 3669684 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:40 | 3669689 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Thanks WB7

The one weapon we have is merciless ridicule via art.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:42 | 3669695 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Thought Criminal!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:42 | 3669699 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

That would be me.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:07 | 3669781 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Information war.  And they ARE losing.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:16 | 3669806 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Yes, and if all else fails they could pull off a "Jericho" scenario.

An animal backed in a corner is capable of anything. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:44 | 3669708 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Indeed it is an important weapon. One image can convey a vast network of themes and tie them together, many of which are digestible on the first look. Like music, art speaks directly to your core.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:52 | 3669734 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Get a load of that umbrella handle

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:21 | 3669832 Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

Mr. Banzai7..........I just wanted to say I appreciate your perseverance in always lightening the mood around here.  I was worried when I first discovered your last name.  Yet here you are, still around after all this time -- long after my memory (and that computer's hard drive) has been destroyed.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:00 | 3669851 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

The key is to play by their rules. But play better. ;-)

BTW, it is a tremendous exercise in mental discipline to change your name to a pseudonym full time. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:30 | 3669858 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:33 | 3669869 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Victorian humor

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:49 | 3669919 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

Priceless !!!      thanks,  WB7

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:01 | 3669763 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

LMFAO.....billy bonzai.......ONE MILLION THUMBS UP

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:16 | 3669807 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:45 | 3669904 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

You got it ;_)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:28 | 3670060 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture




Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:37 | 3669681 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

What is this term "constitutional rights" that you speak of? I am unfamiliar with this term.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:51 | 3669912 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Constitutional rights -- [phrase] Basic human rights once enunciated by a social contract covering a large part of North America, particularly a region formerly known as The United States of America. 

Appended to the Constitution in an effort to ratify the social contract, these rights were indirectly described as negative prohibitions on the behavior of persons elected to serve as "government" towards all those party to the contract. The original document was known as the Bill of Rights.

As it progressively fell into obscurity and disuse by citizens, "government" exceeded it's charter and expanded its power, usurping individual autonomy. Aided by self-interested commercial, corporate and wealthy interests, and abetted by citizens whom refused to exercise their power to control those whom they elected to office, the Constitution, while never formally dissolved, became a cult object subject to both veneration and derision by those under government domination.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:08 | 3669983 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I notice no mention of "free shit".......

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:42 | 3670262 noless
noless's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:37 | 3669682 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

It's over.

Someone get the lights, thanks.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:45 | 3669713 Cdad
Cdad's picture

It is indeed...over.  Said it yesterday.  Everything going forward here and now is the proverbial lipstick on the pig.

There will be no recovery, folks.  That has been postponed indefinitely.  

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:24 | 3669839 Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

It has been over for awhile now.  Hell, even my father is starting to grasp the futility of trying to "save" the system, and the system is all he has ever known.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:48 | 3670534 Spanky
Spanky's picture

My sea daddy was a chief. Blue nose, lobster back.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:37 | 3669685 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:10 | 3669788 knukles
knukles's picture

Sweet..... George Orwell was right

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:38 | 3669687 mobtown
mobtown's picture

Ok, I have had enough. FUCK YOU NSA. Read that you slimey motherfucking intrusive cocksuckers. It's time to burn down washington. Somebody organize SOMETHING TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:43 | 3669704 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

It's called cascade failure, mother nature is on it, but you may be on hold for a while.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:11 | 3669790 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

All we have to do is NOT SAVE THE SYSTEM.

Thats it.  Just let it fall.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:14 | 3670006 Spanky
Spanky's picture


You're wrong. Dead wrong.

It needs to fail, but we must be ready for it, if we wish to prevail.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:04 | 3670304 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

How pray tell are we to recognize "be ready" and who is this "we" you refer to?


Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:02 | 3670478 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Looks like it's you and me, DaddyO.

It's complex... but really, really like simple too. Ya know?

I stand by what I write in these threads...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:45 | 3669710 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You are somebody..........

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:01 | 3670300 noless
noless's picture

People talk. Want to organise? Have fun with the mouth breathers that show up at the public offering.

What needs to happen in this country is drastic, irreversible. If the fed can pull off their current scheme then ok, super, but seriously, there is nothing between US and the forth Reich.

We are well and truly fucked,

I've offered a focal point in the past, it garnered nothing.

Don't pretend that you can pick up a flag and start some shit, its not the way it works.

I do look forward to the concurrent and pointless rebuttals however, those are always fun.

Not to be too discouraging, I'm down to meet a/s/l...

Serious though, organize, meet you on the forefront.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 03:43 | 3670480 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Mouth breathers are useful too... Just don't ask too much. Keep it simple.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:12 | 3669782 Renfield
Renfield's picture


The whole idea of their spying is to prevent organization.

It isn't REALLY that they're interested in the pix you & your girlfriend emailed each other. (Well that too.)

They're waiting for someone to start shit. Then that person can be disappeared, a quick computer search done, and a complete dossier of their communications handed to the interrogator-in-chief for review a half-hour before your interrogation.

Trial by fascist and all document review will take place in a closed room, it will all be over by morning, the court system will not be troubled, and the public need never know. Well, unless the perp has already made any waves or organised any resistance, in which case same dossier will come in handy for efficient descrediting.

I'd lay doughnuts to dollars, this has been the plan since it dawned on Cheney how time-consuming, tedious, and embarrassingly PUBLIC trial is, especially that annoying discovery phase.

I have yet to hear of any bar associations speaking out against this or refusing to co-operate. Strange thing, since this will make 'attorney-client privilege' a thing of the past and their job largely redundant (except for the facilitation legislature, of course).

Anyone wanting to organise anything, had best read up on guerilla warfare and non-electronic communications.

Don't worry, you're still safe to say ANYTHING you like, unless and until you actually do anything to draw Their attention. It's a natural evolution of the 'dirty tricks campaign', to put troublesome political loudmouths away quiet and nip in the bud any 'hope & change' from the upstart proles.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:13 | 3669795 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I don't think the answer will be to elect a new leader, or organize a new party.

We will need 10,000 new leaders and 10,000 new parties.  Decentralization, baby.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:55 | 3669939 Spanky
Spanky's picture

I've been trying to discuss decentralized, cooridinated political action... but you're having none of it, as best I can see. Que?

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:16 | 3669990 Spanky
Spanky's picture

It's past time to discuss what can be done, solicit ideas, work up some plans and develop a strategy. I hear a lot of bitching, read a bunch of ideology, and smell many an ego, but something, anything, useful? Ideas? Plans? Strategy?

But it's my fault, I just wasn't expecting a bunch of poseurs.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but every time I read a post about "the sheeple", it's hard not to notice its author bleating right along with the flock.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:33 | 3670078 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

Solzhenytsen reminds us that the entire system of Gulag and Great Terror would never have worked if only people had resisted. If anyone--anyone had killed their captors instead of meekly walking to their fate, the system would have unravelled. But everyone assumed their own arrest was a mistake, and if only they acted reasonably and cooperated, they system would realize it was mistaken and release them. 

Your arrest will not be a mistake. Unless you resist.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:45 | 3670266 Renfield
Renfield's picture

I reckon that by the time They show up to arrest you (or me), resisting will be your best chance at survival; perhaps your only one.

I respect those communities banding together to try to combat local crime. Looking out for the neighbours would greatly increase the chances of their doing the same for you. A fascist weakness is now and always has been personal relationships.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:14 | 3670409 Spanky
Spanky's picture

If "they" come to my home, I doubt, strike that, I know my neighbors will not come to my aid.

An APC or MRAP and squad or two of heavily armed and armored para-military troops? Will your neighbors stand with you?

What will you do? ...Brave words, but I suspect none of us really know what we'll do when (if?) the time comes. Wives, children... what happens to them if we live up to our pride? A few will. Most won't.

Do you have first hand experience with organized, institutionalized, violence? There's a lot of bravado around here, but experience says it will evaporate faster than water spilled on a Panhandle farm road at summer noon. Don't recall seeing any folks rushing over to save Waco or Ruby Ridge from the federales? That's because there weren't any...

Call me whatever you will, but I prefer to avoid that fate, if at all possible.

But that doesn't mean I quit, defeated and resigned to being bulldozed. Just because I "prefer" not doesn't mean I won't...

Necessity is the mother of invention. That's the true genius of this country. When we hit an obstacle, we overcome. And that's the problem we face right now, in this instant.

It's obvious many here have lost "faith" in the Constitution. In voting. So have I. That realization crashed in the day GHWB "won" the presidency. I knew exactly how bad Iran-Contra was, factually and Constitutionally, and now you too see the effect of a Congress sweeping secrets under the rug. Crime family indeed. And they aren't the only ones.

This shit ain't new, it's just coming to a head. Entirely foreseeable, if you cared to look... 1913? Smells like 1917, 1929 and 1933 to me.

How many of you "awakened" since 2007/8? Why then? What tidal change occurred in your life to force awareness? My point is, if the ZH editors and contributors are right, we can expect another, possibly on a much larger scale. Maybe soon. 

We ought plan for it...

What would have happened if, when you awoke, when you *knew* it was real in your gut, you could've simply stepped into a ballot box and told the bastards to fuck off -- and mean it? You and all your friends. Anybody that cared to join you. Why the fuck not?

No, it's never been done, but our backs appear to be against the wall. We gonna rush 'em? Or just let 'em shoot?

Let's roll...

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:17 | 3670497's picture


Wives, children... what happens to them if we live up to our pride?


And what will become of your wife and kids in an out-of-control police state?

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 02:15 | 3670542 Spanky
Spanky's picture

My point exactly...

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 01:26 | 3670509 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Rent the video The Lives of Others to see what is was like to live under the Stasi in East Germany. 

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 03:41 | 3670580 Spanky
Spanky's picture

The term, "when you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow", springs to mind.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:43 | 3669692 knukles
knukles's picture

Somebody gonna get screwed.

Not really, it's all for public consumption.  The NSA was one of the Original Investors in Schnoogle along with DARPA, etc., have had a presence on their campus forever, are essentially the "public" information hoovering arm of the MIC.
To wit, don't forget when China was gonna muzzle Googs, the censorship thiongamajig?  Mrs Clinton, our then erstwhile SecState within hours was busting Chinese chops about censoring Google but no mention of Yahoo, etc., any of the other ISPs, etc.
Nope, defend Google as a Mercantilist Policy of the Gubamint.  In fact defended Google better than the State Dept and Gubamint defended the Ambassador in Libya, FFS
And that's but one occasion I can recall at the moment.

Public pabulum.  Nothing changes.

Don't hold your breath or believe that Do No Evil is da Troof, folks!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:17 | 3669811 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

Google: "Don't be evil. Outsource it"

Be careful, Knukles... Future President H. Clinton does not like being associated with her former minions: State Department rapists and pedophiles. 

You don't want to see her mad. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:43 | 3669701 Duc888
Duc888's picture

Meh, phuck google.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:45 | 3669711 knukles
knukles's picture

Servers in the Netherlands, so everything is hoovered off the fiber-optics running off and on shore... 
By definition....
Foreign communications.  Which it's Legal to Read.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:02 | 3669767 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Some people do not understand that there is nothing they can not read if they so chose to. The system itself was designed to have back doors by law.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:12 | 3669794 knukles
knukles's picture

Precisely...  If they wish to read it, they read it.
Matters not where, who, what form anywhere on the planet....

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:21 | 3669831 seek
seek's picture

They can't read modern encryption, and it's been mathmatically proven they can't read one-time-pads, so all is not lost.

I also seriously doubt given the amount of code review there are any backdoors in bone-stock linux installs.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:25 | 3670053 Spanky
Spanky's picture

What does it all matter? Anything they wish to hang me with is right here. Sure I could encrypt it, but then you couldn't read it either.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 07:54 | 3670763 Umh
Umh's picture

I'll agree about the one time pad, but they can read modern encryption if by that you mean the use of public private key exchange. If you have to go through their choke points they can implement TCP intercept.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:22 | 3669834 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

same layout, but isn't "enhanced" by google

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:43 | 3669705 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So lemme get this straight.

The government wants to use Google, Faceplant, Microsoft, i-shit etc. to spy on people who buy pressure cookers but they're going to give away AK-47s to Syrians without a background check? ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:46 | 3669715 knukles
knukles's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:47 | 3669719 knukles
knukles's picture

And in fact a whole buncha them Syrians are self avowed cicadas who are our avowed enemies... and you're thinking background checks...

maniacal laughter

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:55 | 3669746 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Them damned cicadas, always causing trouble, a couple of them suicided right into my pool intake last night!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:48 | 3669723 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

to protect the inner party. Ignorance is strength!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:13 | 3669796 knukles
knukles's picture

"Inner Party"

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:51 | 3669736 jon dough
jon dough's picture

Winnah, winnah, chicken dinnah...

Tell him what he's won, Johhny...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:06 | 3669777 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thats right, you've won a dinner for four & a night on Bidens balcony shooting skeet over his next door neighbors house!

And a new caaaarrrrr!!!

Yes, its the imported 2011 Fisker Karma...with sleek fire retardant faux leather upholstery, sport wheels and unlimited mileage towing service!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:09 | 3669778 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

nmewn said:  "...but they're going to give away AK-47s to Syrians without a background check? ;-)"

Yup, and send AR-15's to Mexican drug gangs but "crack down" on Americans buying them as individuals in the U.S.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:18 | 3669816 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its friggin classic cognitive dissonance ain't

I really think they're trying to drive sane people nuts...really.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:23 | 3669836 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

You guys... it's not that bad.

I understand they are asking for first inital and last name before they hand out the light mortars and wire-guided missiles. It's not like they're just throwing them off the back of a truck in the middle of freedomtown. 

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 03:57 | 3670544 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Good to know. I was worried there, for a moment... Did you know Michael Jackson has a kid? How the fuck did that happen?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:57 | 3669933 Shad_ow
Shad_ow's picture

Then they are going to legalize the Mexican cartels who sneak over the unguarded border and import Syrians who love Al Qaeda.  All this while monitoring mom and pop for signs of racism because they disagree with The POSOTUS.

Nothing to worry about.



Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:44 | 3669706 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

There are alteratives to Google.  They're called ixquick and startpage.  Quit giving these fuckers any hits, watch their ad dollars take a nosedive, and have your revenge.

And if you use Chrome as your browser, for fuck's sake, delete it and get a different browser. 

If you have an Android phone, dump it, as it is a Google product.

Hit 'em where it the wallet.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:48 | 3669720 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Oh - and get an iOS device? Snooping is built into the hardware there, buddy.

edit: I use a Samsung Stoopid Phone.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:54 | 3669745 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I don't carry a phone anymore. ;-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:56 | 3669750 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Best practice.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:27 | 3669848 seek
seek's picture

It really is. I commented yesterday that Android is just as bad as iOS as far as squealing on you. I've put an RF emission monitor on phones turned off via the soft key and they still decide to bark out a RF packet or two when you think they're "off."

I make it standard practice to "forget" my phone as often as is possible, and I carry a burner with the battery removed for those times where having a phone might be a good idea.


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:39 | 3669886 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Hard as it is to believe, it is possible to survive in the 21st century sans cell phone. 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 22:54 | 3670287 Renfield
Renfield's picture

I've never had one, but then, I'm nobody important, certainly not enough to be 'on call' for anyone, for any reason. :-)

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:03 | 3669771 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I haven't carried a cell phone in more than a decade.  Any cell phone can track you by GPS if you leave the battery in.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:31 | 3669861 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   cary a "ding -dong" fone.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:48 | 3669722 Fiat Burner
Fiat Burner's picture

Yes, withdrawl all support for these fascist pricks. They can't survive without us.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:19 | 3669822 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Yes. While we're at it, let's see if we can start educating people on what "Money" in fact is.

As long as Fascist Fiat can be mistaken for "Money", then if you don't give them yours, they can just print more.

So you can see that simply withholding your Fascist Fiat from Google, doesn't by itself solve the problem.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:32 | 3670071 Spanky
Spanky's picture


I like. Doing counts.

While we're at it, let's see if we can start educating people on what "Money" in fact is. -- Renfield

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:48 | 3669724 knukles
knukles's picture

To repeat a prior comment:

Servers in the Netherlands, so everything is hoovered off the fiber-optics running off and on shore... 
By definition....
Foreign communications.  Which it's Legal to Read.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:01 | 3669959 yepyep
yepyep's picture

true dude but they are getting everything either way i think the goal is more to prevent them getting advertising revenue.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:57 | 3669752 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

The Iron browser is a chrome clone with all the spyware eliminated.   I've been using it for a while now.   Comes from a group os German computer privacy nerds.  Iron even uses most chrome extensions.

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 05:11 | 3670614 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

The Google product that hurts me the most to let go of, is youtube. I loves me some music, and to be able to search out some old obscure song.

It really sucks that Google bought out the youtubes...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:45 | 3669712 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

LOL and goog expects us to trust them? dont they have an office in the WH? arent they part of the fed government 

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:49 | 3669728 knukles
knukles's picture

You're getting it!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:46 | 3669716 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

why now Google?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:49 | 3669732 knukles
knukles's picture

Perceptions Management

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:52 | 3669741 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The snake has to eat something, even if that's its own tail.

This is the fun part - where the creeps start feeding on each other.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:00 | 3669760 Possible Impact
Possible Impact's picture

"Perception is the only reality that matters"

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:46 | 3669717 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Google isn't evil. How do I know? They have "not being evil" as part of their mission statement.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:47 | 3669718 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

joke of the day - cbo and congress claim amnesty illegal free for all bill will reduce the deficit - they said the same thing about obamacare - it would solve everything, reduce healthcare costs, reduce the deficit and put a chicken in every pot

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:52 | 3669742 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Perhaps you do not realize this, but jokes are supposed to be funny...........

Wed, 06/19/2013 - 08:09 | 3670794 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

That always depends on which side of the joke you are on...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:48 | 3669721 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"In other words, gentlemen, it's a big shit sandwich and everybody's gonna have to take a bite."

-- Full Metal Jacket

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:03 | 3669772 pods
pods's picture

Does this mean Ann Margret is not coming?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:34 | 3670081 Spanky
Spanky's picture

No morning dew for you...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:49 | 3669726 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:49 | 3669729 Duc888
Duc888's picture

...oh, and you all should read a book called "The Puzzle Palace".  I read it about 15 years ago, all about NSA.  It's not like they diddn't come out and tell ya they were gonna do this shit.  Really.


What ever tech "consumers" have available, they make it a point to be 20 years ahead of that, at a minimum.



Gawd I lubb dat werd.


Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:07 | 3669758 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Yea, I used to have a copy of that book about 15 years ago. Good stuff, though it wasn't nearly as good as his newish one (Shadow Factory - James Bamford).

3 words, John Muthafuckin' Poindexter:

Father of "Total Information Awareness".  This has been cooking a loooong time.


Evil shit never dies in Mordor of the Potomac.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:47 | 3669910 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture


Robert MacFarlane (graduated from USNA the next year)

Iran Contra

Yeah... I think we know who this guy works for.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:55 | 3670147 Spanky
Spanky's picture


See also:

Agents of Repression, Ward Churchill

Who's Running America, (series) Thomas, Dye Phd

Tragedy and Hope, Carroll Quigley, Phd

In the Spirit of Crazy Horse, Peter Matthiessen

The Ordeal of Change, Eric Hoffer

On Civil Government, John Locke

The Prince, Machiavelli

The Shadow Factory, James Bamford

Spy Chips, Albrecht and McIntyre

The Myth of Democracy, Ferdinand Lundberg

The Merchant Bankers, Joseph Wechberg

Information Warfare, Winn Schwartau

Wealth and Democracy, Kevin Phillips

...among others.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:49 | 3669731 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

"We don't always share your information with the govt...

But when we do, we don't like it. Really."


Google...Do no evil...occasionally.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:53 | 3669744 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It's okay, they are just following orders.............

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:49 | 3669733 steelrules
steelrules's picture

PR. They won't change a damned thing, they're all hard wired to the NSA and the FBI, some of this was done under Bush and the patriot act and then Obama made it much worse.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:51 | 3669737 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Having C-Dad and Knuckles, on the same page makes me wonder.?

   Both of those men have the collective trading ideas< dating back 100 years<

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:55 | 3669747 knukles
knukles's picture

Hey C-Dad!
He called us old farts!

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:29 | 3669852 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   Knuks, ? I'm not getting any younger.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:11 | 3669743 Duc888
Duc888's picture

"The government wants to use Google, Faceplant, Microsoft, i-shit etc. to spy on people who buy pressure cookers but they're going to give away AK-47s to Syrians without a background check? ;-)"


 Don't forget, we can not "secure" our southern border. Why not just fukken fire NSA, CIA, bring all the troops home and have a block party. Invite Al-CIA-Dugh and the Messicans, throw in MS-13 for entertainment value, head choppings and all...

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 19:55 | 3669749 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

Don't be Evil. Unless You're Deepthroating Obama.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:02 | 3669764 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Let's see, make buckets of money or do the right thing?

Apparently, Google decided to make buckets of money, and then later act as though they are/were/will do the right thing.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:06 | 3669774 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Sergey Brin, can you loan me a pair of Google Glasses? I would like to record your stock shares tumbling from the convenience of my monitor. Gag or no Gag, the awareness has been known for years.


Google is Watching you | packet sniffers don’t lie.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:07 | 3669780 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture


BuzzFeed is saddened to report that Michael Hastings died in a car accident early this morning in Los Angeles. He was 33.


 General Stan McChrystal says he will be sorely missed.




Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:28 | 3670345 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

False flag.  Who and what the hell did he know?  Are we going to expect the medical examiner to die too just like with Breitbart?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:43 | 3670380 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Doesn't appear they missed him. Looks to be on target.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:13 | 3669797 imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

So, do you think it has gotten their attention that a number of us have stopped using google?

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 20:21 | 3669830 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Honestly, probably not yet.  There's a reason many companies that start down the path of failure never recover - the Xerox Apple effect.  It takes new eyes to understand the trend. It may also have something to do with the relationships between actors and observers.  They are not symmetric.

Tue, 06/18/2013 - 21:04 | 3669972 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Or more specifically in this case, reactivity: the influence that being observed has on behavior.

The desired influence is self-censorship.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!