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CME Hikes Gold Margins By 25%
How very unexpected. And how, judging by today's massive selloff, it is almost as if someone knew in advance this would happen. Can JPMorgan just restock its vault with whatever gold it needs to meet its massive delivery demands (at three year low prices) so some normalcy can return to the market?
Source: CME
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it's obviously no surprise, though. And I don't see ES and other such products in the 'general interest' (as defined by TPTB) getting margin hikes too often even when they get frothy and overleveraged a la NYSE margin debt being at all time highs of late.
Provident Metals' prices haven't fallen in lock step with the recent downtrend. Will be interesting to see if the PM dealers draw a line in the sand @ $20 even for say generic (like NTR) 10 ozt. bars.
The damn thing did triplicate on you, didn't it? Nice try at a save.
LOL MsCreant. +3 then.
Looks more and more like deflation to me. Some of the paper gold funds are going to go completely bust taking $billions with them.
I know that Zerohedge is dominated by the "keep stacking" and "boating accident" muppets but wake up fools.
yeah. deflation. with the market manipulation right in front of our eyes in glowing neon. what do they have to do for you to demonstrate the Comex is a criminal enterprise? What? Show up at your door with a submachine gun and demand your gold in the name of the JPM shortfall for May and June?
I'm cost averaging this bitch all the way to zero. Bring it on.
BICHEZ!
Sorry to have to do it but you get the the red arrow of fuck off from me which is only like the fifth or sixth one I have ever given. LawsofPhysics can deal with your ridiculous assertion about deflation.
I've been dealing with your types for a decade and half so listen up. I have a question for you and I have yet to see a paperboy answer it. Why do you care what we invest in so much? If we want to keep stacking and never improve our boating skills what's it to you?
I'm all ears.
Deflation it may currently be, but whichever way you slice it deflation is only support for the main act.
Bless your funny little brain if you think that those colored prices of paper, or electronic digits will only get more and more valuable.
When the fed transitions to a hard money system, controlled only by market forces, I will happily admit you were right.
+1 But the FED will never do that. The FED needs to be disappeared. We will have to do it ourselves in small economies. This paper ponzi will implode and whether it happens in my lifetime or in my children's lifetime, the foundations of sound money and monetary policy will be in place to facilitate trade at least on my end. We still have a long ways to go I am afraid, not because the system is a house of cards, but because so many are oblivious to what is happening. My biggest concern is that the BOYZ will coordinate a systemic global crash and, steal everyone's wealth effect and institute a "worldo" universal digital currency with which to rinse and repeat. In fact, I am sure that this is where we are headed and I challenge anyone to the contrary.
If a global currency is mandated through the UN or whatever illegitimate meiosis of a global agency they choose to create, secondary markets will emerge. Secondary markets, i.e. black markets, exist everywhere already. How's that war on drugs been going so far? Fucking waste of time and outright theft because they care so much for our safety. Yeah, right.
Agreed that the plan is most likely for a World Currency controlled by private interests, free of political oversight.
Probably with some sort of meaningless/powerless political parliamentary structure to divert and absorb the attention and energy of the masses. This Phony structure would endlessly debate all manner of hot button and important humanitarian issues, without so much as even acknowledging the presence of the real power/money structure.
Much as the Euro-Peon parliament does today.
The problem faced by the Elite is how do they get from "here" to "there"?
Some of the obstacles that they may have to overcome.
1. Controlling the flow of information. (probably impossible).
2. Destroying the US ( Constitution) hmmm?
3. Co-opting Christianity , and destroying what other religions cannot be
co- opted.
4. Controlling important resources.
5. Creating credible yet compliant future leaders (not that hard it seems)
6. Further centralizing the tentacles of power at every decision node.
Every time an individual or a family or a community or a state or a country, Gets out of debt bondage, or exercises free will, or uses local markets, or chooses a different path in even the smallest things, it is more difficult for brute power to control the situation. Those who seek to control the path of entire countries cannot risk revealing future plans except as a "response to some perceived urgent need". whereas an honest person can go about their life openly, freely explaining to others what they perceive to be the advantage of doing things a certain way.
Best of luck with the free trade and local markets!
Nicely stated.
My gold is still where it was this morning and that is where it is staying. Fuck off Crooked Market Engineers.
So let's see what happens when Asian markets open. Maybe some Chinese will buy physical?
ah. yeah. since we are stupid enough to sell it to them at these prices. yeah.
what a joke this has all become. its a sad day for the US and our once "free fair and transparent markets".
Why not? We sold them scrap metal and they sell us back bridges.
They will make good use of it.
Probably because those CFDs are based on gold too
I'd LOVE to know if Europe is doing it with oil and euro too
gold still way too high imo
You're looking at the price of 1970 dollars. 35 of them, to be exact.
So, on days like this,when I sell my SLV ETF, taking a loss, and enjoy the ability to offset other gains, like SWHC, and buy the real deal, am I having the government subsidize my purchases?
Swapped paper for real, and lowered my tax liability to boot.
That's the ticket.
Well, a better subsidy might be to sell puts on silver and then accept delivery after assignment. :-)
When will it go 100% ?
margin hikes is healthy - less speculators and more stable prices
amen
I doubt the margin rules apply to the Fed.
I'm all for brokers being able to extend credit for whatever trades their customers are making, but lets not pretend that price discovery will be thwarted by disallowing purchases of assets from people who can't afford said assets. Look at the housing bubble, easy access to credit caused prices to run AWAY from fair value, not towards it. In a free market world though, this would be done by the brokers themselves, instead of having the government do their jobs of protecting clients from losing other client's money.
That is a good point, and it's important to remember that speculators participate on the short side as well as the long side. Hiking the margin requirement reduces specs' ability to short the contracts. And let's put this in perspective - $8000 or so to control 100 ounces of gold is a pretty thin margin even after being hiked! It's about 16%, so you're leveraged about 6x even after the margin hike!
Uh, 8000/128000 = 0.0625 or 6.25%. That is 16-to-1 leverage, which is still pretty high. The deep pocket guys can still move the market with that kind of leverage.
This dip easily offsets the 2% additional import duty in India. It's truly laughable.
The sooner we go to cash only the better. After all that's what the constitution proscribes. Fuck the banksters and all their fractional reserve games.
Gold did go to the moon today... during daytime.
I need those little bears to explain all this to me ONE MORE TIME!
"Restock"? From where?
That was paper flying back and forth today, not metal.
Margin hikes, where the weak hands fold, and the strong hands get stronger.
Bring it on!
I'm a big fan of Gold and Silver. But I haven't liked the price action and I posted a couple of days ago that I thought Gold would go to 1250 and silver as low as 18.50. But I didn't expect it to sell off this quickly. No reason to buy yet, I wouldn't want to try catching a falling knife.
"Cash and carry" market is right around the corner.
cool. Dropping margins goes with price drops. Rising margins looks good to me for price rises.
Haven't seen Harvey Organ's take on this yet... he's running a little late.
If you raise margins, doesn't that force sales and push the prices lower?
Isn't that what happened?
Oops that was supposed to be in response to MeelionDollerBogus
Why respond to MDB or any of his clones?
Why shouldn't I be buying something that the US Govt and others are actively surpressing the
price of?
.Can we get an update of this chart?
shit, it's your chart, howcome I can't post it here?
SMI >OUT oF Stock!
NTR>>Out of Stock
A-Mark Minting.......20.87
Well, with physical gold impossible to buy and surely trading for 1700 an ounce if you're lucky enough to find any, what's the worry?
Really, remember all those loooooong and so detailed postulations on why gold was going straight to 3000 and if you didn't own a bunch at any price you'd become a slave to those who did?
Those guys are pushing milk carts today.
Everything is a trade.
Goldbugs that lack humility and are unable to except the notion their thesis *could* be incorrect, are misguided and deserve their fate. Step back, look at gold appreciation from 30,000ft. It went from $275 to $1900 (~600%!!) in just over 10-yrs, largest correction being 32% (1045-> 700) during our most severe modern day recession. It has now corrected again around 32%. Big deal, especially when it has taken such a parabolic trajectory. It speaks volumes when the naive can only blame SPAN margin (clearinghouse/xchange protocol around for DECADES!!!) and manipulation for their fiscal grief. Where is the self-responsibility? Manipulation, which certainly does rapantly occur on Wall St, can not cause such massive dislocation and extended period liquidition. Interesting how there was not a peep about manipultion as commodities were financialized in early 2000's, and shot to the moon. Yeah, COMPLETELY normal that the top 33 commodities appreciated in the same breath with a 5.5 STD correlation above historical (150-yr) mean. Give me a break. There was $11T of pension fund allocation alone in early 2000's that needed a home after tech bubble rout. Managers were rattled, unwilling to heaviliy allocate back into high vix equities. They needed a new trick. In steps Wall St's clever "Commodity Asset" pitch accompanied by Greenspan's put, and it's off to the races. Commodity complex market cap is peanuts in size compared to yield seeking cash of pension/hedge/sovereign wealth funds. Don't you get it, these were the primary speculative drivers all these years, not the hard working stiff "stacking" his shiny eagles in hopes of lofty $5-10k/oz valutions. Now they have been rotating out over the last few years looking for the next new trick to ride the wave back on up. It makes me legitimately sad because most of the goldbug diehards won't be able to swallow this until they are wiped out, holding $300-500/oz metal. Mixing idealism and risk management/investment decision making will be to the detriment of many. Opportunity cost... abide by it!!! Don't sit around waiting for gold to turn... sure it may be only a month away, but why not 1yr, perhaps 10yrs? Do you really know? I sure don't, neither do the best market practioners.
Please, I beg you, be patient and let the gold bear settle out. Do not underestimate how apathetic yet critical the main speculative drivers were in the majority of it's appreciation. Buy into strength, higher highs, new fond optimism. It's ok if you miss the bottom 10-20%. Let the amateur hr masochists catch the falling knife. Trade/hedge neutral during the bears, hold strong during the bulls!
Disclosure: Long SI contract 19.51, $1.5 bracket.
Granted, you have postulated some very interesting ideas here.
You may be right.
But, I believe in the unwritten law of human nature.
Au and Ag have throughout time been considered valuable. There is too much evidence of market manipulation for me.
Let a front-end loader suddenly open up a rich vein in your backyard and see if people run from this barbarous relic.
I will hold on and let human nature take its course.
If these metals are so overpriced, why are centarl banks scooping them up? Why is not JPM opening gold stores to get rid of this cheap yellow stuff so they can raise cash?
No, the old Sioux Chief was right: "You must protect our lands. The yellow metal drives white men crazy."
PMs are a source of "money" or wealth protection to me. I have Au from 3 generations. It stays at the bottom of the lake for the next generation, unless it is needed.
"I have Au from 3 generations. It stays at the bottom of the lake for the next generation, unless it is needed."
Best Regards LC55 and I agree. Once it goes gold, it does not get sold.
I am sorry, I missed your previous posts. Could you kindly direct me to them please? Thank You and -1.
There you go, just what we are talking about earlier.
A total fraud and gold troll. They are popping up all over this board tonight. (ZH chat had 3 or 4 in there).
"The Gold Market", just like the "Stock Market".... Is a steaming pile of maggot infested (New Normal) Ponzi on steroids, Shit.
"gold bear"?
Thats pretty fucking rich considering where we are right now Einstein.
i agree we are going back down to the average
Wowser: "Goldbugs that lack humility and are unable to except (sic) the notion their (sic) ..." Ahem.
SI has ticks of 0.0025, or four ticks per penny. So, it's possible that a person would have bought July silver SIN3 at 19.51, which was tagged very briefly Thursday evening around 8:30 PM Chicago time without tagging 19.40. The odds of buying within a few cents of a fresh multi-year low!
Assuming it's true, I could learn a lot from you. What made you buy that evening after it broke the support it had been holding for over an hour? Buying a break of support to a new multi-year low on a down-jitter during thin evening trading is amazing.
What made you think that 19.51, four ticks above 19.50, was a good place to buy? Reason for busting your chops is that "$1.5 bracket" is a very unusual way of specifying either, or both, your price target and/or your stop. If it's both, you'd have a bracket OCO: sell stop 18.01, sell limit 21.01. SI is not priced in penny ticks like GC is priced.
Pray tell why you have such a long way to go to hit the 1.50 symmetrical stop and target points. Nailing the entry so well seems a bit inconsistent with the loosy-goosy "bracket." OK, $18.00 makes sense for a stop because that level was so sticky for years. But you'd be losing $7500 + slippage and silver's trend is most definitely DOWN at this point.
On the upside, what made you think that SI will go up $1.50 for a $7500 profit/contract, when it's been going for the past year or so.
Jeez... what's with all the complaining?
I love it when things go on sale, especially shiny relics.
Deflation. All asset classes get taken out back behind the woodshed and severly beaten until they comply.
10 more years to go. Gold and silver are not immune.
Inflation running at 8, 10 12%?
Yeah sure...
Managed markets can never become "normal" unless the managers are stopped. It's simple. They are raising margins to keep the riff-raff out. Soon there will be 100% margin and a totally physical market. JPM may have been able to replenish a little of their depleted stock, but that will soon be gobbled up at these prices. Bullion banks are now net long as they have made big money on old shorts at these levels. "Tapering" from $85 mil a month to $50-$60 mil a month is still massive money printing. The FED will have to off-load MBS and Treasuries to unsuspecting pension plans if it wants to shrink its balance sheet in any meaningful way. Interest rates will go up and the bond market will suffer as inflation begins to rear its head in earnest. Have fun.
$1150 gold not that far away...mmmmm