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10Y Treauries Hit 2.50% - Highest Since Debt Ceiling Crisis

Tyler Durden's picture





 

While the headlines will note the 2.50% level's importance, it is the belly (5Y and 7Y) that is being crushed.

 

 

 


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Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:39 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

DOH!

Paging Dr. Bernanke!  Paging Dr. Bernanke!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:42 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Fonz called it. Let the kabuki theatre begin!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:45 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Is Bernocchio choosing inflation instead of default?

Of course, he can fix it all in under 15 mins......

 

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:49 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

<--Bernank - after shooting multi-trillion USD wad - lost control of yield curve

<--Bernank is at risk of losing control of yield curve (& has turned printer dial to 11)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

At some point, fed buying will chase yields higher and Fed selling will expose the bankrupcy of the US.

The exact same thing happend in the Asian financial crisis.

As foreign investors attempted to withdraw their money, the exchange market was flooded with the currencies of the crisis countries, putting depreciative pressure on their exchange rates. To prevent currency values collapsing, these countries' governments raised domestic interest rates to exceedingly high levels (to help diminish flight of capital by making lending more attractive to investors) and to intervene in the exchange market, buying up any excess domestic currency at the fixed exchange rate with foreign reserves. (Indonesia had foreign exchange reserves of more than $20 billion)
Neither of these policy responses could be sustained for long. Very high interest rates, which can be extremely damaging to an economy that is healthy, wreaked further havoc on economies in an already fragile state, while the central banks were hemorrhaging foreign reserves, of which they had finite amounts. When it became clear that the tide of capital fleeing these countries was not to be stopped, the authorities ceased defending their fixed exchange rates and allowed their currencies to float. The resulting depreciated value of those currencies meant that foreign currency-denominated liabilities grew substantially in domestic currency terms, causing more bankruptcies and further deepening the crisis.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment JeffB
JeffB's picture

I guess one thing in our favor is that we don't have much in the way of foreign denominated notes due.

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Gosh, now I'm confused. If the economy is doing as well as they say, why do we need to "entice" to buy T-bills with a higher interest rate?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:53 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Good thing I always keep 33% of my assets in US dollars. My portfolio consists of what I call the Iron Trifecta: One third US bonds, one third US equities and one third US dollars. No matter what happens, my portfolio is hedged, allowing me to invest confidently within these asset classes.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:55 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

So you're the little piggy who built his house out of straw?

Good luck when the Big Bad Wolf comes knockin'.

 

*I up-voted you for the true humor/witty sarcasm.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:58 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

I'm planning to hold my treasuries to maturity anyway, so why should I care about falling bond prices?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment TerminalDebt
TerminalDebt's picture

I don't know

maybe because your treasuries are earning 0.2% while inflation is 6%?

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:36 | Link to Comment madbraz
madbraz's picture

you must have just bought a house to suffe through such high inflation...

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

.....so, raise the interest rate so inflation appears lower. It worked with education. When kids weren't meeting the "standard", we lowered the standard.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:06 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

And with rising real world interest rates coupled with the real rate of inflation, you'll be on E-Z street on redemption day.

 

*p.s. - Nasdaq is first to bleed in the lead when the Bear draws a bead (on).

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:03 | Link to Comment bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

You shouldn't. Thats what idiots do.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment game theory
game theory's picture

Are you holding your US dollars to maturity too?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"Challenger go at throttle up" 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Sorry, man, but all three of those are "US Dollars".

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Poor, sad Bullard. I almost feel pity for him and his empty, hollow words and attempt at attention whoring.

06-21 11:45: Fed's Bullard says Fed may need to increase QE if inflation slows

Visual Representation of Effect of Bullard's Words

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Your always spot on, TIS. Great photo.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Bullard wants to replace Bernanke. He wants Wall Street to know that if he does replace Bernanke he will continue with QE to keep the markets happy and rolling in abundant cash and credit. Wall Street rejoices and sees a savior in Bullard. Meanwhile in the rest of the world, people are shocked that anyone on the FOMC would openly admit that the fundamentals of the US economy are in fact bad, just as suspected.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Bullish! (I mean... MOAR desperate Bullshit. Pick your poison, Bernank)

 

06-21 12:48: Market talk that Fed sources say should delay tapering if worse financial conditions hurt the economy - Unconfirmed

Market talk that Fed sources say should delay tapering if worse financial conditions hurt the economy - Unconfirmed

*'Market talk' - Signifies information that has not been formally tested through traditional journalistic channels and therefore is to be treated as unsubstantiated. Any interpretation of the talk is taken at the readers own risk and is a representation of the rumours within the market place and never generated by ourselves.


 Reaction details:

- In an immediate reaction emini S&P 500 has seen a 5 point higher in a move from 1575.50 to 1580.50. The USD index has seen a 0.08% move lower from 82.49 to 82.42.

- 16:53 Fed watcher Hilsenrath says markets might be misreading the Fed's messages and overlooked dovish signals in Bernankes Press conference

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Our very own 'Baghdad Bob' for the Fed makes his appearance to save the day. I wonder exactly how much the Fed pays him and is it in cash or kind?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Got an email from GoldMoney this morning that explains the effect of rising interest rates in a much easier to understand way than what I've been attempting to explain so far:

 

Systemic risk should not be treated lightly. There are two worries for Mr Bernanke that explain his indecisiveness: firstly, falling equity prices undermine consumer and business confidence (at least in the central bankers’ playbook); and secondly rising interest rates along the yield curve are bad for bank solvency.

This latter point needs more explanation. During the Libor scandal, it became apparent that a small interest rate fall boosted derivative values significantly. Citigroup helped us quantify the effect when in 2009 it reported that a 1% fall in interest rates would enhance its derivative values by nearly $2bn a quarter. Citigroup is one of the smaller players in the derivatives market, with only $14.2 trillion of interest rate swaps at the time. This explains why zero interest rates were a necessary component of the rescue package at the time of the Lehman failure.

According to the Bank for International Settlements, last December there were $370 trillion of interest rate swaps. Using the Citigroup numbers as a guide, a 1% rise in interest rates would cost the banking system over $200bn in a year. Bear in mind that this cost is concentrated in a few too-bid-to-fail banks, and this is only part of the total derivative market, which amounted to $633 trillion. The reality of tapering is that the Fed is going to have to tell Congress that their interest bill is going to rise, so they better cut their spending, and that he is going to have to find an extra one or two trillion to give to the banks.

Instead, the reality is there is no going back from QE, and current instability in financial markets is probably only the beginning of an acknowledgement of this dilemma. The trade-off is between escalating systemic risk and being locked into further monetary inflation, either of which justifies protection by owning precious metals.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 14:28 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

This article dovetails nicely regarding just how fragile US banks actually are:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-21/u-s-weighs-doubling-leverage-standard-for-biggest-banks.html

"Among the biggest U.S. banks, only San Francisco-basedWells Fargo & Co. (WFC) would exceed the 6 percent threshold being considered, with a 7.3 percent ratio estimated by KBW in a report this week. Morgan Stanley (MS) would be the worst, with 3.8 percent. JPMorgan (JPM) and Citigroup Inc. (C) would be at 4.5 percent, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. at 4.6 percent and Charlotte, North Carolina-based Bank of America Corp. at 5.1 percent."

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:07 | Link to Comment TheEdelman
TheEdelman's picture

The printer dial goes to 11?  I guess even the fed sometimes needs "that extra push over the cliff.. ya know"

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment Muppet
Muppet's picture

TIS: Agreed.  Bernank appears to have "Lost control of the yield curve".

Did you see the Hilenrath comment today "Mr. Bernanke suggested the Fed could keep short-term interest rates near zero even longer than previously planned."

 

Even though the FED now (mis)reports losses as being "deferred Assets" (LoL)... the increase over the past few days in "deferred assets" has to have stunned the Bernank.    Gulp!    

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:10 | Link to Comment Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

oh-oh...somebody is loosing control over the 10 yrs treasury....not looking good Bernankestain!

also, who is selling all the silver? THE US MINT!LOL

http://zysites.com/silververitas/

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:51 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

irrelevant

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:51 | Link to Comment tawdzilla
tawdzilla's picture

Sorry, Dr. Bernanke has left the building.  Let me introduce you to your new physician, Dr. Copper. 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Fonz nailed it.... this is gonna get fugl (ier)...........................

 

Moving my target on EDZ to 85.....

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Watch house prices/sales plunge accordingly.

 

I can hardly wait to see that chart!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:39 | Link to Comment 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

*nomnom*?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:40 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Pink slips are flying at mortgage lenders today!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

The cash crunch pandemic is here!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment bullet
bullet's picture

TBF being very very good to me...

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It is a bit puzzling. It's almost like the markets are out of sync or something.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:43 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

....a strange disturbance in the force....like a million voices screaming out at once....

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

George Lucas is poop.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:45 | Link to Comment TLT
TLT's picture

Yes, since 2009.

The historical correlation between stocks and bonds is gone.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:44 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

It is puzzling, but I attribute it to a sudden realization as to how strong the economy is.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

We've reached another permanently high plateau.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:54 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Strong like BULL!    (shit)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

The chairman said the same.
Nominate the man for Nobel prize economics and then let's see if Turbo Timmy can do better!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Shit you get 25 greenies for that and I get a bunch of poo throwers who can't take my sarcasm anymore?

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:53 | Link to Comment madbraz
madbraz's picture

NY Fed is lending $20 billion/day of treasuries to primary dealers every day for the last 3 months - typical amounts used in times of serious crisis.  The "supposed" purpose is to fill collateral holes in the repo market.

 

Or...banks are re-lending these securities on an overnight basis to hedge funds (sic...Bridgwater...sic) who in turn short the same treasury bonds.  Every day.

 

If true, in short, it would amount to a manipulation scheme between the NY Fed, primary dealers and hedge funds to try to push interest rates in the direction their bets are on and to close out on the "safe haven" trade.

 

Theories aside, why should the NY Fed lend treasuries to the largest banks at these incredible levels when treasuries are taking a beating and players should be forced to buy collateral in the market place?  If they don't have to buy the collateral on the market, you eliminate a huge chunk of the buying that would normally take place.

 

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Well, if you assume that the Fed operates in the best interests of the Primary Dealers, rather than the best interests of the US Treasury, then it makes more sense.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:41 | Link to Comment madbraz
madbraz's picture

Well said.

 

In Japan and in Switzerland (and most places) they try to protect their currency and their interest rates market from speculation.  

 

Here, above all they try to protect the banks who owns them.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Foot meet Shoot.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Spigot
Spigot's picture

We are fucked. We've been Bernanke'd. Enjoy the relative calm of the next few days. After that, all bets off. Grab a decent steak, beer or stronger. Enjoy the sunset. Forget about everything for a few hours. The singularity is now in full control and will be ripping your molar roots out before you know it. But until then ... take your rest.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 20:45 | Link to Comment Spigot
Spigot's picture

I also want to point out that most of you fucktards blew me off back in March when Abe changed BOJ into a MiniMe-Bernanke machine. Well, well, well ... so the end of the world IS upon us, you toothless goons. All of this would not have happened if Japan had continued on its course of slowly eating its own corpse. After the 500 quadrillion Yen pledge to "adjust" the value of the Yen and the subsequent protestaions for 2 months by China, now we have China's financial system vaporizing in a pink mist of atomized flesh, bone and blood. The fucking US 10 year just took on 30 bips in 36 hours, look at the slope, far more to go there. State Street (and others) starting to seize up like a cheap lawn mower without oil...give me a green arrow if you get it and know that next week and beyond is indeed no longer Kansas as we have known it.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:15 | Link to Comment SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

There's that word again...puzzling.   :)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:41 | Link to Comment stant
stant's picture

curious george wont be happy about that, the drone and super computer payment is almost due

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:28 | Link to Comment YuropeanImbecille
YuropeanImbecille's picture

Love It! Curious George !!! HAHAHAHAHA

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

It always makes me laugh

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Well, i guess the ARM holders will be easy to identify, since they will all have an ARM hanging out of their ass...

Taper!!

 

LOL!!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:50 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I actually do have an ARM, and mine just adjusted. Currently, I have a better rate than the government.

pods

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment BandGap
BandGap's picture

I have a 15 year ARM, I can ride this for awhile.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Midasking
Midasking's picture

Better fire up the helicopter http://tinyurl.com/mem7o7x

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:42 | Link to Comment trillion_dollar...
trillion_dollar_deficit's picture

On a POMO day too.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

n/m

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

Collapse imminent.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:50 | Link to Comment NipponMarketBlog
NipponMarketBlog's picture

 

 

Careful what you wish for....

 

http://nipponmarketblog.wordpress.com/

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Sweet Chicken
Sweet Chicken's picture

I don't wish for collapse. I wish for hangings.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:14 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Be careful what you wish for.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

But guillotines are so much more fun.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

A little dated, but a classic, and still relevant. http://www.amazon.com/Silver-Profits-Century-Theodore-Butler/dp/B000XKZO...

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Its Only Rock N Roll
Its Only Rock N Roll's picture

Hey Fonz...they hit 2.50% this week.  2.75%-2.90% next week?  My bet is C and BAC have their rate term structure all messed up and at big risk here.  Who doesn't have their hedges on right??

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Let The Wurlitz...
Let The Wurlitzer Play's picture

I can feel the margin squeeze now!!!!

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

That's ok, don't you think?  I'm sure all the algo trades are programmed to BTFD at 2.5%.  Nobody would trigger selling of such a high quality asset at a threshold like that, not when the 'asset' is backed by the FULL FAITH AND CREDIT of the US Government...

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:45 | Link to Comment czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

What does this mean? :(

I read Zero Hedge but I'm still not smart enough to be a millionaire. Oh well, I'm still not bitching about my fake "losses" in the box of silver at the bottom of Monterey Bay, despite my blue collar wage.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:48 | Link to Comment TLT
TLT's picture

Rising yields mean that bond prices are down = selling pressure.

When investors get out of bonds, it's game over. It's the last domino to fall, as stocks are being completely manipulated since 2009. Bonds too, but being a larger market, can mean that the FED is losing control.

Also, rising yields mean larger interest payments. That makes the fiscal deficit even larger.

Summarizing: the system is fuc***.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Oh, just say it. THE SYSTEM IS FUCKED.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:17 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

If this is indeed the end, I did not time things correctly. Que sera, sera. It is only funny money anyway. Peace out my brothers.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:44 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture
  • Sept FOMC Notes "We were only kidding about tapering"
Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Emergency Hilsenrath blog post on Friday afternoon - 'Fed was only kidding about tapering'.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:18 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

And there it is....

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475533

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:46 | Link to Comment clones2
clones2's picture

Could be an ugly afternoon...  free fall without any clear support below qqq, spy, dow, tlt (et. all)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

I certainly hope there are no technicals used in the bond market.. 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:48 | Link to Comment jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

The clapping is getting louder.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Shad_ow
Shad_ow's picture

...and so are the voices outside the windows.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:48 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

What does it do to the Fed's balance sheet?  How much has the Fed lost on its holdings of treasuries - must be at least $100 billion so far.  What does it do to the budget deficit since interest costs are higher.  How much does the deficit increase by every year? $100 billion or $200 billion?  Enquiring minds want to know.

Meanwhile unfunded liabilties continue to grow at $7 trillion a year.  

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:49 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And how about the insane leverage on it all too? 20% leverage + 5% drop = 0.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

You buy that motherfuckin' dip goddamnit! You understand me? BUY THAT FUCKIN DIP NOW! 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

And Curious George Goes To Germany is on the telly...

I'm sure his trip was planned long ago and this is just coincidence.  

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:48 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Bond (the real world) panic now making it impossible for Bernank to pump the fraud illusion equity indexes....this is getting real interesting!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:49 | Link to Comment WelfareFTW
WelfareFTW's picture

COME ON YOU MOTHER OF A MARKET... Give us what we've been waiting for!! RED across the board on all monitors, torch those sheep that are invested in stocks and bonds and destroy everything in your path...

 

AGSDASDFGDFGFDGF

 

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:51 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Must.....BTFD.....EZ monies....guaranteed.....4eva......arrrgghhhhhhh

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:50 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

It's over, it is over

Coming up:

- dow cratering

- crude oil cratering

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Nothing is over, they can double down, they can ban short selling, they can do whatever they want...
If it's "over", define "over" and/or the event timeline.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:54 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

Double or tripple lehman coming

 

Exact Timing belongs to God, not humans.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:59 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

People still don't get it....the salad days are over. 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:59 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

All preplanned, all intentional

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Troll King
Troll King's picture

Do any of you use data and facts?  Or is it always opinion?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

All opinions based on extensive reading of everything

 

Where do I find those facts? Impossible.

Just bits and pieces what is available online which makes me put a structure together

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:17 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

You, sir, hugely underestimate the power of governments over illusory things like money.

If they don't like the closing prices tonight, they can decree them to be whatever they want at the open Monday, and make it illegal for any transactions to take place at a lower price for the next 3 weeks.  And Congress would agree, if their constituents had lost a lot of money.

Nothing is "over" until oil decides it is, and not its price, its availability.  It's the only thing that can't be printed.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

Setting a "minimum price" would accomplish nothing except sieze up the markets and cause widespread panic as people are unable to convert their stocks into spending money.

Like a bank holiday in the equity markets.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The government would then impose a minimum trading volume requirement on major firms.  They WILL trade at those prices or be fined.

The point is . . . there was no money in the garden of eden.  It's illusory.  There is nothing sacred or defined-in-physics about it.  It was invented.  It can be changed. 

Numbers on a screen will not be allowed to destroy civilization.

Oil will do that soon, but numbers from an invented, illusory entity? Nope.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:37 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

I agree 1000%

It's about oil availability, not price.

 

Howvever, the Fed has created a lot more claims on that crude oil, that it is not making it into the economy but going to storage, hence economy is starving for energy

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You two aren't talking about the same thing.

A national financial catastrophe, economic catastrophe, collapse of the government, etc., has happened plenty of times in modern and ancient history, it's one of the things we know has happened to every agricultural civilization ever. And generally, they rebuild. It might take a long time, but they do. As far as the civilization is concerned, it's not an extinction-level event.

Peak oil, or just peak cheap abundant energy, is and always has been a civilizational extinction-level event.

A Lehman 2.0, or something like it, could easily trigger a full-blown depression or possibly a collapse. But as long as the energy (and raw materials) are there, things can be rebuilt in time.

Most of the ZH crowd is waiting impatiently for such an event, for many different reasons of varying prudence and justification. I'm not sure anyone but LawsOfPhysics is eagerly awaiting a global catastrophic collapse due to energy supply contraction, as (as you undoubtedly know) such an event will not something most people will live long enough to tell their grandkids about.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:16 | Link to Comment Troll King
Troll King's picture

So you won't state any data to support your theories?  Why do you even write here?  Just to watch your words appear on a page?  You think we all care what you think?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:24 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

It's for free to post on zerohedge and exchange thoughts and learn from everybody

 

Just ignore me, Nobody forces you to read what I say.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:29 | Link to Comment IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

I, for one, enjoy reading your posts and often seek them out, EKM. I look for posters who challenge me to pay attention and seek my own information. You and several others are valuable to readers like myself. So, thanks.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:35 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

Humbled. Thx a lot

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

Well now, isn't your screen name an appropriate one. You obvioulsy care what he thinks since you released your troll juice all over his post. Douche.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Tinfoil hat strapped firmly on here.

Ekm,

Not God mate, there is one lot higher than that.  This ends when the Rothchilds say it does not before.

The worlds only Trillionaire family.

Tinfoilhat removed and safely stored.

;-)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Nope. No God. Just humans doing what humans do best.

Destroying humanity.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

9/11 times a thousand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh the hyperbole! This is an orchestrated cool down of the markets. It was becoming too obvious. The marionettes never get control. The puppet master always pulls the strings. So keep buying gold and silver. It's like religion. It's makes helpless people feel better about being helpless.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Yep. It's gonna be a cruel summer.

You called it. Kudos.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:58 | Link to Comment ekm
ekm's picture

Two main issues:

1) crude oil price about $90 for two years=economy starving for energy

 

2) Currency swaps between France, UK, Australia, New zealand and ..........CHINA = allies avoiding the dollar = SUPER DISASTER.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Basically we've been OK for a while....the barkeep was willing to let the drunkard run up a bit of a bar tab but his drunken bully antics have worn out his welcome and there's no more pints with the promise to pay later.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:41 | Link to Comment e-recep
e-recep's picture

i believe crude oil will be less affordable to americans, not more. vehicle miles driven are dropping, and rightly so. the americans are not getting wealthier and deserve less and less to drive those cars. obama can give executive orders but he cannot change the trend, it is not possible as long as the policies stay the same.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Not yet, Ekm. There are so many ways for this market to be manipulated. I think your conclusions are right, but I do think your timing is way off.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:53 | Link to Comment Tinky
Tinky's picture

I'm beginning to suspect that Angelina Jolie's tits were the last effective distraction.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Rumor is that even after the surgery the faint scent of Billy Bob remains.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:36 | Link to Comment Scro
Scro's picture

He has a ranch not too far from me, he's a big a-hole.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:53 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Doesn't matter, congress still believes there's no bond market crisis.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Clowngress....the most corrupt and myopic among us ALL they care about is their kickback checks.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:54 | Link to Comment NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Unfortunately, these are probably still well within the "free money" range re the Big Fucking Banks. ("BFB")

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Imminent collapse is now upon us folks.

Dead men walking methinks.

:-)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I see you're new to Calvinball.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:03 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Slow learner GM.

;-)

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:23 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

+10 C&H reference.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

good thing the nice men on CNBS say higher rates will have no effects on the stock market

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:57 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

NAH! Panic rise in UST rates mean NOTHING to our beloved holy stawks! We got da BERNANK, our Messiah we're down on our knees sir!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Let's Ride the Bomb! Calling Major Kong. http://youtu.be/JlSQAZEp3PA

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:57 | Link to Comment bullet
bullet's picture

CME margin hikes on interest rate complex... did the trick..

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:58 | Link to Comment NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Bullish!!  (Didn't look like anyone had hit that yet."

 

Also, gold biatchez.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 11:59 | Link to Comment jpc578
jpc578's picture

The Treasury's hope of refininancing T-Bills and shorter term T-Notes at super low rates in 10 to 30 year Bonds (>2%) is slipping through their fingers.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

Anyone see any falling banksters yet?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

The Wall Street Triple Lindy.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:28 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

It ain't over till the Fat Cat Splats.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment Troll King
Troll King's picture

Yet we are not rotating out of bonds, right guys?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Come babe, come babe, puke me up some of those 2.6 ten years.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

What counts as an inverted yield curve in a ZIRP environment?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

Ben needs to go back to the chalkboard.. this isn't going as planned. I have a feeling it's going to be an uugly afternoon session.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

It's been ugly for me because I'm short and rooting for a crash

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

They´ll almost certainly test 200-Day MAs, 1500 in the S&P and 14000 Dow.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
Fri, 06/21/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

To restore confidence, Ben needs to find a nice strong rope and a chair, go outside, find a tall tree with a strong branch, attach the rope to it, make a nice hangman's noose, get up on the chair, tie the rope around his neck, step off the chair... and nature will take it's course from there.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:26 | Link to Comment virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

That was epic short squeeze... wow> Now back down.

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:25 | Link to Comment mademesmile
mademesmile's picture

Why is it called "getting crushed" when the interest rate goes up? I'd think people who are now buying would be happy!

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment game theory
game theory's picture

Uh oh.  You mean the gov't will need to pay more to fund itself?  How will the IRS pay bonuses and the NSA pay for expensive consultants and the state department hire cronies if the costs of gov't borrowing go up?  Maybe China's Communist Party will extend a "Friends of Mao-angelo" loan?

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

Pakistan cut its interest rate today, that must mean something, no? MOAR growth. I am sure Pakistan can offset all the low imports of US and Europe from China, all by itself? /sarc

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-06-21/pakistan-unexpectedly-cuts-r...

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 15:41 | Link to Comment PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

Hard to disassociate the politics of this,

Barry is anything but an effective pol- he has never had to actually compete nor govern as a shepherded political pawn- he is nothing more than a minor league bully with a major league truncheon.

One of the cardinal rules of cut throat politics is never toss someone under the bus that is still driving the bus- loose screws sink ships.

Ben only had to give it a shrug along with a mostly neutral set of minutes and a somewhat blank look to show Barry who really is in charge, after all the Fed doesn't really answer to Ahl kida D.C.

The hammer of destruction to our economy doesn't want to be blamed directly for a pile of ashes he created, his plan is like every other self absorbed academic is for the next fool to deal with the issue.

it's going down hard eventually but who really knows when?- we still have the Nikkei as a buffer wot?

 

Fri, 06/21/2013 - 19:55 | Link to Comment rjs
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