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Guest Post: 5 Reasons Why Now Is The Time To Buy Bonds

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Submitted by Lance Roberts of Street Talk Live blog,

 

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Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:39 | 3684282 NidStyles
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Meh, and be the last clown standing when the music stops?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:45 | 3684295 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Methinks Lance is just talking his book. I'd rather be 2 months early, than 2 minutes late. No thx.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:11 | 3684340 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Sometimes 'this time is different' really is different. Look at bonds during the Lybian crisis. Somehow the flight to safety didn't quite happen. That was the turning point. Thinkiing the old rules have to apply when a bubble pops is naive.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:23 | 3684364 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Any interest-based or leverage-based asset is hot potato at this point, and has been since 07. You simply do not know what the return will be, as it can fluctuate like a diabetic's sugar levels. You can only trust physical inventory anymore, whatever form it may take.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:53 | 3684433 economics9698
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Right before a hurricane hits it gets inharmoniously calm.  

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:00 | 3684452 Kirk2NCC1701
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But maybe sovereign bonds are like real estate?  Where it's almost always a good time to buy?  ;-)

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:17 | 3684354 max2205
max2205's picture

I bet lance is wrong until the 30 is at 5%

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:07 | 3684470 QE49er
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Leave the Gun...take the canolis

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:40 | 3684284 uncle_vito
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Bonds and stocks are generally inversly correlated.  The last week they were positively correlated.   One has to change.   Which is it going to be.   Stocks or bonds?  Not positive it could be bonds.   Not sure that bonds are getting any lower but stocks could rebound.   At least short term   Long term, who knows.   If the economy drops  (stock drops)  Bernanke is not goiong to taper.   So stocks will rally.   I am not sure stocks or bonds are going to drop much more.  Bernanke is not going to let either one 'crash'.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:37 | 3684393 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh sure..

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:55 | 3684437 economics9698
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I second headbanger.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:00 | 3684453 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I didn't get past the first sentence, which was hogwash. Also, inversely was misspelled, not that I care.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 04:44 | 3685825 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I put it more simply. It is the contest of governments' ability to wreck economies (deflationary-positive bonds) versus stimulus policy from the Fed and central banks (inflationary-negative bonds).

I personally believe that governments have the greater ability to wreck economies. Europe in in recession and there is not enough money in the whole world to fund long term US and Japanese obligations.

Having said that I still own gold and silver. Governments can wreck currencies, as well.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:41 | 3684288 wisehiney
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TLT looked good for a trade at Fridays close.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:46 | 3684297 fonzannoon
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I agree it did, but for a trade.

I gotta be honest, something seems weird. There have been many articles on here from guests and the authors pounding the table on bonds, starting about 40 basis points ago. It would be unfortunate if the same crowd that spent years understandably missing the equity rally were to walk into an asswhooping buying into the possible unwind of the largest bubble out there.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:11 | 3684342 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Yep!  And while I understand ZH is a "financial" blog but wasn't it created out of protest with the existing system.  I've found it strange that ZH has moreso lately been endorsing it.  Just sayin...

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:26 | 3684371 NidStyles
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You aren't the only one that noticed it.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:43 | 3684406 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Money has pull. Paid writer gets spotlight for a few fiatskis. Why the hell do you think you keep seeing GS articles?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:20 | 3684451 MisterMousePotato
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Several years ago, one interesting factoid about ZeroHedge was where the site's traffic originated. Sure, there was New York and elsewhere, but a grossly disproportionate amount came from Herndon, Virginia, which is ground zero for just about all U.S. intelligence operations. Another thing that was obvious was that many of the people posting on this (then) blog were talking about things that nobody (and I mean nobody) else was in a remarkably casual, knowledgeable, and professional manner.

My conclusion was that ZeroHedge was at the time some kind of publically accessible forum where a bunch of financial spooks got together and openly talked shop.

It was very weird and just a little scarey. Kinda like that forum where Ezra Kahn (?) and a couple thousand other 'journalists' all got together and coordinated stories and spin (aka "lies").

It's changed quite a bit over the years, even before the most recent assault on anything goes.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 19:05 | 3684952 Thorny Xi
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Please let us know how you're privy to the IP addresses of ZH contributors, will you?  Is there a site besides nsa.mil that records them?  :)

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 05:06 | 3685175 MisterMousePotato
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What I wrote was from information in an article on this very website (which was a mere blog at the time), which, if I recall correctly, was based on statistics from Alexis or some such.

Look, when you or I or anyone else comes to this site, our client computer browser makes an http request to this website's server. In order for this website's server to answer that request, it needs to know where to send the packets of information that our computer's browser fashions into what we see on the screen. In this context, the *where* to send packets is defined by 'ip addresses'; that is, the ubiquitous 123.456.789.012 numbers that even most casual computer users have seen.

Those ip addresses, in turn, are generally and loosely associated with geographical areas because that is (was?) the way ICAHN and others assigned them.

So, in short, it would be no great feat for anyone seeing the ip addresss currently being used by my computer (to tell ebay, for instance, where to direct their server's response to my search for whatever) to deduce that I am in or near Sacramento, California. More than that requires (or, well, used to require) accessing more detailed logs maintained by one's isp. These days, .GUV probably gets them even before our isp does, but, oh, well.

This of course, is why real hardcore security and privacy types advocate TOR and other techniques to conceal one's ip address from, e.g., ZeroHedge or any other website. In fact, there was, and may still be, some advice on this site about how to conceal one's actual ip address from this website or others.

I am not privy to anything not equally available to all. Maybe a little more knowledgeable, and even that's debatable. Bottom line is that what I wrote is a paraphrase of something that I read on this site several years ago before it changed.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:59 | 3684445 MisterMousePotato
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dupe

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:58 | 3684446 gatorengineer
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and sometimes people wake up with Horseheads in their bed......  E.G. Rupport Murdoch....

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:25 | 3684506 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Gotta beat the bastarooni's at their own game.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:41 | 3684400 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Even Robert Prechter is screaming get out of all bonds. But anything can get stretched. Let's make some money for the good guys.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:53 | 3684431 noless
noless's picture

Do you remember, i think it was Leo something, pumping Greek bonds on here before the default?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:21 | 3684684 MisterMousePotato
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Chinese solars.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:36 | 3684387 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

A little TLT profit next week will get a good price on the "Great Rotation" into Silver.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:23 | 3684696 pauhana
pauhana's picture

We are all just renting at this point. 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:42 | 3684289 CrashisOptimistic
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All those things are largely true.

They are very possibly trumped by the loss of the biggest bid establishing a floor.

Because deflation is universal.  Decline in price of assets, including bonds.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:17 | 3684351 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

This.  People are going to cash; this will accelerate next month.  Redemption, in every sense of the word.  

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:43 | 3684292 beaker
beaker's picture

Sounds like the was written by someone who is long - or advising clients to be long - bonds.  There's a question of risk/reward here.  It looks pretty disproportionate to me.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:04 | 3684293 buzzsaw99
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Agree that the T bond bull is nowhere near dead but for none of those bullcrap fundamental reasons above. There is no market, there is only the bernank.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:47 | 3684299 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

 5 reasons to buy bonds??
After a 30 year bond bull, with the whole world and their dog long on bonds, sovereigns and banks leveraged and drowning in debt. You go for it.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:56 | 3684314 CrashisOptimistic
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That's not really the point.

The point is relentless, grinding decline in GDP growth rates, and economic activity in general.  It's been going on for a very long time and there is zero evidence that has changed.

Bond yields have fallen globally because there's no growth.  If that hasn't changed, why would there be any sea change for bonds?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:50 | 3684304 ebworthen
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If I could have put all my money into a 30 year T-Bill at 15% in 1977, wouldn't I have been a lot better off than the stock market?

At this point, why would I want to play the FED's game and jump on the yield/% rate Yo-Yo?

And, isn't buying bonds a way of supporting the FED?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:50 | 3684306 EscapeKey
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The fuck? ZeroHedge tells me to buy bonds?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:53 | 3684312 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

and it ain't the first time in recent weeks.

I'm not sure when we went from the only winning move is not to play to catch the hot potato.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:13 | 3684346 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Gotta pay the bills, I guess.

Usually postings of this type fall under "guest" articles at least.

I don't recall seeing the Tylers advocating such an investment vehicle. When and if you do........then it's probably best to find an alternative to ZH. Because that will mean the credits are rolling and it's time to leave the theater.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3684402 PlausibleDenial
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I am not sure by posting articles by others (wherever palced) is the same as suggesting one participate in the message.  In addition, I have always thought that it was common knowledge by ZH'rs that only a fool would come to any website or blog for investment advice.  However, it is interesting to see how commentators react to various articles.  Do you guys still read one star rated articles?

@Fonz....I enjoy the exchange you have with several folks .  Keep up the good work.

 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:47 | 3684416 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

thanks for that.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:15 | 3684348 Colonel Klink
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EK, I said the same thing above in Fonz's post.  I've been noticing a change in the site.  Makes me wonder if it's under new management or edict.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:34 | 3684383 EscapeKey
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If I wanted to be told to buy bonds, I'd be on Marketwatch.

 

Seriously, WTF. I'm on this site specifically because it goes against the grain. If that were to change then why the fuck would I waste my time here, as there are plenty of sites sucking Bernankes cock. 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3684399 fonzannoon
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At least they make it clear. Unlike marketwatch which is just full of shit.

"You should assume that at all times we are so totally just talking our book it would shock and awe you like the unexpected, early-morning arrival of a cluster of BGM-109C Tomahawks (were you a believer in the importance of "optics" that is).

If we make a off-hand remark about New Zealand sheep herders it's because we are long New Zealand West Island Cold Kut (NZ-WICK) Wool futures and Kiwi brand Condoms ("For it's pleasure").  If we are joking around about Cliff Asness, it's because we have developed a synthetic short of ARQ.  If we jest about Joe Sixpack, it's because we are trying to hype our cheap-American-beer holdings so we can exit quickly.  Basically, we are telling you about a position we believe in strongly enough to invest in.

......

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/13972

 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:51 | 3684415 Marco
Marco's picture

Marketwatch is still telling people to get into stocks and out of bonds though.

 

If you just want to hear "buy physical" and "this is the last time they can take it down, really really this time" well, yeah ... there are probably better sites for that.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:54 | 3684435 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

marketwatch is part of the CIA/MSM psyops owned by rupert murdoch.......dont waste ur time......

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:18 | 3684493 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I never said I subscribed to the belief either way. I use ZH to counter out the koolaid sites like MW.

Both are to be taken with a grain of salt, of varying size.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:27 | 3684512 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I hear you. was not implying anything other than the thought that at least zh is upfront with their polocies.

 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:39 | 3684547 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

True... but I still never realised going here meant being pushed bonds.

 

Time to adjust the bias filter.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:34 | 3684526 Colonel Klink
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Hahaha, with MW you'd have to hit me with the bottle of salt.  That place is so full of shit the banner should be brown instead of green.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 20:19 | 3685125 YC2
YC2's picture

Are you reading this for an article or a deity? If this site was always opposite of the consensus, it would be useless. Just do your own due diligence.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 02:39 | 3685723 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

EscapeKey             "Seriously, WTF. I'm on this site specifically because it goes against the grain."

 

If you depend on the opinion of others, you are never against the grain.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:50 | 3684424 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The Hedge isn't telling you anything. Just because a guest posts an article it doesn't mean the Hedge endorses it.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:52 | 3684428 fonzannoon
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I've seen a few by the Authors Doc. Just calling it like I see it.

That being said the hedge makes it clear they can say one thing while they do another.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 02:36 | 3685722 sessinpo
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EscapeKey    "The fuck? ZeroHedge tells me to buy bonds?"

 

Comment:

Where is ZH telling you to do anything? TD provides his own incites and also presents the thoughts of other authors.  Are unable to think for yourself? Okay, I'm an ass for asking that question. The answer is yes because of your post unless it was sarcastic (missing the (sarc) tag.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:59 | 3684318 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

      Here's a short read. BIS tells central banks to head for the exits | ForexLive

    I think that bonds are going back up in price. Bernanke is trying to get some sort of guage as to what will be the result if he starts tapering. If bond yields don't go back down appreciably, he'll never taper. I still think the equity markets have more downside to come, but it won't be in a straight line.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:11 | 3684338 fonzannoon
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I agree Yen. This is going to be choppy. The next move seems to be up in price for bonds and down in equities. However from what I hear, the trend is actually higher in yields as time goes on. I am amazed to hear that. I guess we will see.

 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:25 | 3684369 Yen Cross
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     Earnings starts July 8th, for Q-2 Fonz. That should stir up some dust.

    I see some folks talking about keeping their holdings in cash, so keeping an eye on the DXY will be important. It's pretty overbought again s/t. Everyone keeps talking about this strong dollar trade.( I don't see any bad reason to stay liquid and wait for direction) Personally, I think the dollar trade is going to be range bound over the next 2-4 weeks.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:34 | 3684382 fonzannoon
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I think what is being underestimated is the reaction the 1st week of July when the 401(k) crowd gets those statements and sees their stocks and bonds whacked. If I had to take a guess, and it's just a guess, the overall trend, being choppy, is for a higher USD and lower bond prices.

My only caveat would be if rates move up even 10bps from here in a disorderly fashion. Then all bets are off.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:19 | 3684495 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Thinking the same. A good bet that bond prices will stay mostly down through quarters end.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 19:06 | 3684955 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

WTF, I've been selling my bond holdings. Now I gotta buy em back? Screw this, I want a government subsidy.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 14:59 | 3684321 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

um, nice thesis.....that forgets one pivotal factor......

 

complete and total loss of confidence in the US and Mr. Bernanke. 

 

anyone holding US bonds now is on a suicide mission. 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:09 | 3684334 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Yup, I agree with that, suicide mission. But, I do think they will mellow for a while before moving to new lows. Too much to soon. But the last investment I want in my portfolio is bonds. When they do crash you can lose a years worth of interest in 1 week. And these markets are not free. No bonds for me.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:10 | 3684336 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     I think you're correct about the eventual outcome, but it's a ways off yet.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3684398 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I'm guessing the recent move in bonds was a selloff in order to prop up the stock market (or a btfd, either way, same outcome). The fear play will absolutely begin in equities and that will tend to be bullish for bonds. When the fed starts overtly buying stocks that will probably be bearish for both markets because it means there is no liquidity/margin left anywhere.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 01:39 | 3685689 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

end of the year

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 20:24 | 3685141 YC2
YC2's picture

Yea but its more cigarettes than a shotgun.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:06 | 3684330 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

For a lousy couple of percentage points of interest, one is better off keeping fiat dollars under the bed in view of potential bond implosion and further haircuts of both deposits and bond holders.

If you care to extrapolate any further then gold is a much more natural choice against the madness of this world.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:46 | 3684413 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 forget paper. silver. bullion. in your hands. 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:07 | 3684331 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Seize Mars is done with paper. No more stocks, no more bonds.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 22:57 | 3685486 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

What about USD?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:13 | 3684345 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Kyle Bass: I'd Much Rather Own Gold Than Paper
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94OVi_lS2Xg (3:26)

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:38 | 3684394 tictawk
tictawk's picture

people forget that the 30yr Bond bull started when inflation was rampant along with an overheated economy and there was real fear that it would continue ad infinitum.  Today, a weak economy for years to come coupled with no fear of inflation and the argument is being made for bond investment.  I think MARKET interest rates could rise dramatically even while Bernanke keeps short term interest rates low.  The gulf between short term rates and long term rates could widen dramatically and the Fed will only be able to unload those bonds at a loss.  Poetic justice.  Cash will be king, bonds or notes are not the same as cash when there is a liquidity crisis.  Today cash is the most despised asset given the Fed's propensity to print but the debt balloon is so huge it threatens to engulf everything several times over given that it has grown to this level via extreme leverage.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:47 | 3684417 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

I have no idea how they will do it, but the Fed will not lose one thin dime on their purchases, quite the opposite.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:42 | 3684401 Marco
Marco's picture

What does his fund actually own?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:29 | 3684716 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yep, just what I want to do, continue to feed the beast that's eventually going to murder us all.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:44 | 3684761 DosZap
DosZap's picture

stupe

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:17 | 3684352 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

See there is just no sane place to allocate capital. The pigs at the top have everything so locked up to the status quo that even when there are wonderful, smart, lucrative and eco friendly investment opportunities, they get squashed by the over-lords and or totally exploited and raped by management. Until sanity of some sort returns if that ever happens investing is just asking for financial ruin. 

Playing means playing by their rules and in this rigged game...  well forget it.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:13 | 3684660 noless
noless's picture

Free money to people that don't give a shit about anything you just said trumps actual investment in what needs, by any sane persons rationale, to be invested in.

That's the entire problem.

Sending false signals that cause egregious malinvestment.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:29 | 3684373 Marco
Marco's picture

"Inflation is ultimately a function of economic activity, employment and production and wages."

Not for any country with a high current account deficit ...

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:30 | 3684376 dolph9
dolph9's picture

While I agree that interest rates are not going to rise, the worst mistake you can make is to buy bonds.

There are only two possibilities:  either bonds default, or the currency hyperinflates.  In the former scenario, you will be left with nothing.  The bond simply "dies" and becomes worthless while you hold it.  The latter scenario needs no explanation.

You are much better off holding short term cash for spending and physical precious metal for saving, and just waiting for the biggest shitstorm in recorded human history to pass.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:19 | 3684675 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“individuals continue to overlook the significance of fixed income to an overall, long term, portfolio allocation model.”

Maybe this is the “fair and balanced” way of presenting stuff,. maybe the PTB really can distort their way back to rationality, maybe if I just gulp down the whole bottle I can drink myself back to sobriety, but until now I have never projectile vomited, explosive diarrhea’d, bled out my eyeballs and ears and pee’d my pants all at very same instant.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:25 | 3684701 noless
noless's picture

You're missing out bro, we obviously don't go to the same one man parties.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:21 | 3684692 noless
noless's picture

Please don't forget that espousing such ideals is like offering yourself up to the Colosseum, that's why a community of like minded people with the ability to provide for themselves, and with like values, will trump the individual "hoarder".

Alone, and the mob will hang you and waste your life's work and lay waste to your family, stand together with people that you respect and that respect you, and you might have a chance.

Sorry for the heady proclamations, but i find the reminders necessary.

The most scarce resource is just and honest human communities.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 18:02 | 3684812 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Here's hoping the mob does'nt gain control of any of the many nuke plants in this country.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:31 | 3684377 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

#1 reason NOT to buy bonds: Doing so contributes to the continued enslavement of mankind.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:28 | 3684708 noless
noless's picture

When was the last time you held a united states government bond in your hand?

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 23:18 | 3685532 are we there yet
are we there yet's picture

Last week when I sold some of my US treasuries.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:35 | 3684384 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh pu-leeez....

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:37 | 3684388 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Yencross:  " I think you're correct about the eventual outcome, but it's a ways off yet."

Cold comfort indeed.  How much $$ I lost short 2009-2013 ... {sigh}

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:43 | 3684404 Jake88
Jake88's picture

there's a word for people who take investing advise from ZH. They are called "broke".

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:33 | 3684725 noless
noless's picture

Information isn't advice, and if you take anyone's word for anything at face value you are bound to get yours ripped off.

This game is for survival, have fun trusting the smiling faces on your view screen.

They really enjoy that you do.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 18:26 | 3684853 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Actually most of what zh does is sardonic macro stuff. The rare times they do come out and sarcastically suggest a trade it is more often than not money good.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:46 | 3684410 Jake88
Jake88's picture

Sure hope the market doesn't "muddle" much longer. If it does we'll have to call it a crash.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:48 | 3684420 Vint Slugs
Vint Slugs's picture

I don't buy Lance's "interest rates are pushing extreme overbought levels".  Precisely when markets start to trend the overbought does not get relieved.  I like this picture better (posted link earlier on another thread), also it's a month old and so far right on the money -

http://eideticresearch.com/uploads/2/8/3/4/2834543/u.s._treasury_30-year...

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 15:57 | 3684442 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The smart money is making a quiet exit for real* assets, and rebalancing select secondary or tertiary assets.

This does not exclude shares in businesses, or in time-proven companies -- with share certificates in own hand, to avoid 3rd party counter risk (Lehmanized, Corzanized).

The only 'bonds' I'd touch would be corporate bonds.  But probably from select companies across the globe, not just the US.

* Mineral/Resource rights, PM, quality property (arable, rentable), select art or antiques (which I personally avoid).

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:07 | 3684468 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Now that Japan is stabilized i would imagine the hot money would be flowing that way....

Lot of news not getting reported anymore...

What happened to the Greek Government.?

Protests in Egypt?

No Fly in Syria?

Is Japanese can really kicked?

Isnt there a fiscal cliff out there none too far?

wasnt there an Odumbo scandal or three a few weeks back?

 

There is 100% certainty that bonds will go up, or they wont....  hard to see a 2.5% bond if the inflation rate starts to fly....

 

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:55 | 3684507 TallDog83
TallDog83's picture

This article is perhaps the worst I've read on ZH. It's almost as if Ben Bernanke slipped in as a guest writer and is trying to find some competitors for his bond buying expedition. Buying US sovereign debt is clearly playing with fire. Sure, you could argue money will leave other sovereign debt or stocks into government bonds and you could speculate we don't know how long we can "muddle along" but real assets are the only viable and sane option any longer, unless you just want to throw your chips into the casino and watch them all float down the river.

As interest rates rise, the value of debt instruments will collapse. If you want to wait until it matures to get your money back, your purchasing power will be incapacitated even if you retain the same nominal terms of your investment. Anybody who has the faintest understanding of the fundamentals of the world economy, but especially that of the United States, knows that we are broke beyond all capacity to repay, and there is going to be a bond crisis like never before, not just overseas but most definitely in the US. Only plausible outcome at this point is default, either by inflation or refusal to pay. It's disaster either way. So I cannot understand how anybody on ZH would ever with any semblance of sanity actively encourage buying US government bonds.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:00 | 3684623 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

: "So I cannot understand how anybody on ZH would ever with any semblance of sanity actively encourage buying US government bonds."

It's a short term bubble. But, what a bubble it will be! Peter Schiff explains in his book that when nobody buys U.S. bonds anymore, the government will step up its bond buying (in this case, the Fed). This will create a "super bubble". Many day traders will jump in and buy bonds (making the bond bubble even bigger) and they will make a fortune. But when the bond bubble finally "pops" all Hell will break lose. That is when the game is finally over.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:38 | 3684538 Monedas
Monedas's picture

"Coming soon to a Kabuki theatre near you !"  .... See, people do read Monedas .... although, they don't normally admit to it .... in polite company .... but when they quote my witicisms .... it's amusing !        Monedas     1929      Comedy Jihad It's Fun Being Me World Tour  

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 16:49 | 3684568 Monedas
Monedas's picture

I think this guy has a point .... they'll knock down these fear driven .... interest rates .... because it's imperaFUCKINGtive .... in this market of no return .... I still recommend .... being 80 to 100% in fyzz PMs .... if you have a little money to play around with .... go for it .... there is plenty of movement in PMs .... so you should be able to turn a profit there, also .... since it's your fucking field of expertise .... but so hard to do .... keep hoarding .... and as for me .... keep doing nothing .... and keep enjoying my favourite soap opera .... AS THE WORLD SQUIRMS !   

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:30 | 3684715 dragoneyes74
dragoneyes74's picture
There are two paths Bernanke can take from here, but they both lead to the same destination: a unprecendented global depression.  The same global depression he has delayed and made worse by not letting the free market work in 2008.  The Emperor streaked through the FOMC press conference wearing nothing but a beard and the puzzled look of flawed theories being devored by the free will of reality.  If he decides to increase QE, like Peter Schiff expects, it would not surprise me in the least, but the damage has already been done.  He might be able to get the markets to rally again, but the whole world just got a preview of how this story ends: selling of everything.  A lot of bond holders are feeling the heat and while the low-growth flight-to-safety mentality remains, which should buoy the market for the foreseeable future, the more insightful bond managers will now see bonds as the long-term no-win situation they are, and they will be looking to protect themselves from the inevitable fire by selling the rallies, even as they "talk their book" on TV.  Underneath it all is the simple fact that at some point in the not-to-distant future A LOT of debt needs to be wiped out.  Whether it's inflated away or defaulted upon will be decided by monetary policy, but in either case debt takes the hit, so why would you want to own any?   So I agree with Lance's view that bonds will probably bounce from here since they are sitting on a weekly uptrendline that dates back to the 2007 May low, which should be strong support.  They might start to form a triangle by returning upward in price to the downtrendline from last year's top.  They better or Bernanke has some serious trouble on his hands.  I don't, however, agree with Lance's underlying assumption that interest rates will only go up permanently when economic growth returns (like in the past).  That ideology is exactly what will get a lot of these bond guys burned.  There is nowhere in the past you can point to where interest rates were so suppressed from the actions of the Fed.  If Lance's assumption were true then why wasn't there a flight to safety rally in bonds when stocks sold off for the last month, and especially the last three days?  Bonds sold off with stocks because the biggest buyer said he's going to slow down his buying.  Period.  That is exactly what makes it different this time.  Whether he actually does slow down is speculation at this point, but he sure created the impression that he's serious, and until he himself corrects that impression I think the markets will trade on it, or they will at least be much more cautious about accumulating big positions, which changes the psychology entirely.   The main force behind the historic highs in stocks was the relentless, fear-less BTFD mentality that simply can not be there to the same degree anymore.  I would be very surprised to see stocks return to their highs anytime soon.  I believe a corrective process is underway and it won't stop until the commercials have forced the longs to liquidate.  Or to put it another way, we're now in STFR mode until a definitive bottom gets put in.  I'm expecting S&P mid-1400s.  I would love to see a continued bounce early this week, though.  A backtest of the 50-day would be ideal, but I'm not holding my breath.  Playing the short side of equities should be a set-it-and-forget-it slam dunk, but as we saw in the Hilsenrally rumor on Friday, making a counter-Ben trade is never easy.  I don't expect to see massive uncontrolled selling, though. It will probably be the controlled, stair-step, constantly frustrating, grind-out-a-leg-lower type of action.  Probably until mid-July.   The next scheduled press conference for Bernanke is July 31st.  He will either continue the taper talk, or backtrack.   Until then I think you short the rallies, take some profits on dips and repeat until a clear bottoming stick gets put in.  A strong close above the 50-day would negate this view (keeping in mind a bull trap that stays below the downtrend line).       I also think we're getting very close to a bottom in silver and gold.  I've been saying for a long time that $18/19 would be the bottom and we're almost there.  I have my eye on the $18.50-$19 range, but silver has a way of telegraphing the bottom.  It usually likes to meander around sideways near the bottom with a slightly upward bias for awhile so stops can build beneath the recent low, then it has a violent drop to run the stops that gets immediately bought up, forming a hammer on the daily charts.  If that happens, it's pretty reliable.  The COT positioning has never been more bullish.  Ideally, I'd love to see a backtest of the FOMC breakdown first.  I have a feeling that something is going to happen later this summer or fall that will be bullish for silver and gold, and if we've already carved out a bottom by then it will force a lot of short covering, so this has potential to really take-off again, but one step at a time.  Obviously, this is all speculation at this point.  You have to play the technicals as they happen.      
Sun, 06/23/2013 - 19:21 | 3684977 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

Good post - thx!

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:35 | 3684733 HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

The upside of buying bonds is?

The downside potential of buying bonds is?

Ben, you're spending way too much time here on ZH now that you have been told to back off the manipulation.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:46 | 3684765 Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

I don't know if now is the perfect time to reenter the bond market, but I will stand by my call of 1% on the 10Y Treasury before all is said and done.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 17:49 | 3684781 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Good time to load up on debt purchases if you want to be forced to swap it for equity. Not sure if there's a liquid market in sovereign equities... at least not yet.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 21:37 | 3685332 Sam Spade
Sam Spade's picture

Dr. Lacy Hunt has pointed out several historical instances in which the combination of a financial crisis and a large debt overhang resulted in 30-year sovereigns bottoming out in the 2% range long after the financial crisis occurred.  In his research, the average time to reach this nadir was 14 years after the financial crisis! It’s funny that so many Zero Hedgers seem to be banking on a Weimar-style hyper-inflationary collapse, when the much more likely doomsday scenario is a slow, grinding, Japanese-style deflation and stagnation.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 22:04 | 3685390 neutrinoman
neutrinoman's picture

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 22:22 | 3685425 taketheredpill
taketheredpill's picture

SENTIMENT for Bonds has been extremely negative.  Current sell-off doesn't seem to fit with the bond sentiment, but it does fit with the margin debt levels on equities.  This could be Reason # 6.  Just use (% Long + % Neutral) / (% Short + % Neutral) using JP Morgan sentiment indicators.

 

Could also chart % population UNDER 50 years and compare that to rates.  US today is where Japan was 20 years ago.  Reason # 7.

 

 

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 08:34 | 3694137 lmile61
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