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Ron Paul: "What We Have Learned From Afghanistan"
Authored by Ron Paul via The Free Foundation,
Last week the Taliban opened an office in Doha, Qatar with the US government’s blessing. They raised the Taliban flag at the opening ceremony and referred to Afghanistan as the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan"—the name they used when they were in charge before the US attack in 2001.
The US had meant for the Taliban office in Doha to be only a venue for a new round of talks on an end to the war in Afghanistan. The Taliban opening looked very much like a government in exile. The Karzai government was annoyed that the US and the Taliban had scheduled talks without even notifying Kabul. Karzai’s government felt as irrelevant to negotiations on post-war Afghanistan as they soon will be on the ground. It seemed strangely like Paris in 1968, where the US met with North Vietnamese representatives to negotiate a way out of that war, which claimed nearly 60,000 Americans and many times that number of Vietnamese lives.
For years many of us had argued the need to get out of Afghanistan. To end the fighting, the dying, the destruction, the nation-building. To end the foolish fantasy that we were building a Western-style democracy there. We cannot leave, we were told for all those years. If we leave Afghanistan now, the Taliban will come back! Well guess what, after 12 years, trillions of dollars, more than 2,200 Americans killed, and perhaps more than 50,000 dead Afghan civilians and fighters, the Taliban is coming back anyway!
The long US war in Afghanistan never made any sense in the first place. The Taliban did not attack the US on 9/11. The Authorization for the use of force that we passed after the attacks of 9/11 said nothing about a decade-long occupation of Afghanistan. But unfortunately two US presidents have taken it to mean that they could make war anywhere at any time they please. Congress, as usual, did nothing to rein in the president, although several Members tried to repeal the authorization.
Afghanistan brought the Soviet Union to its knees. We learned nothing from it.
We left Iraq after a decade of fighting and the country is in far worse shape than when we attacked in 2003. After trillions of dollars wasted and tens of thousands of lives lost, Iraq is a devastated, desperate, and violent place with a presence of al Qaeda. No one in his right mind speaks of a US victory in Iraq these days. We learned nothing from it.
We are leaving Afghanistan after 12 years with nothing to show for it but trillions of dollars wasted and thousands of lives lost. Afghanistan is a devastated country with a weak, puppet government—and now we negotiate with those very people we fought for those 12 years, who are preparing to return to power! Still we learn nothing.
Instead of learning from these disasters brought about by the interventionists and their failed foreign policy, the president is now telling us that we have to go into Syria!
US Army Col. Harry Summers told a story about a meeting he had with a North Vietnamese colonel named Tu while he visiting Hanoi in 1975. At the meeting, Col. Summers told Tu, "You know, you never defeated us on the battlefield." Tu paused for a moment, then replied, "That may be so. But it is also irrelevant."
Sadly, that is the story of our foreign policy. We have attacked at least five countries since 9/11. We have launched drones against many more. We have deposed several dictators and destroyed several foreign armies. But, looking around at what has been achieved, it is clear: it is all irrelevant.
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What did 'we' learn from Vietnam?
false flags work?
Irrelevant until you look at the check book.
Yes, irrelevant for the stated goal, quite successful when you look who benefitted?
Booz?
Lockheed?
Government?
Yep, successful on all those fronts.
Freedom? Not so much.
pods
the syrians will welcome us as liberators
GDP bitchez
Learn the rules of engagement. First sentence begins with $$$
jb
he is looking at it from the wrong angle....the answer of success is the common theme...trillions (wasted)..nope trillions spent PROOOOOFFFFIIITTTTTSSSSSSS...mission accomplished. than they just franchised....more trillions...yeah beer...yeah killing...fuckers
'We' are a warrior people.
('We' being the elite fucks who run the joint for their own benefit)
Afghanistan is a devastated country with a weak, puppet government...
I think he meant to say the United States is a devastated country with a weak, puppet government...
Ron Paul did the voice of Charlie Brown's teacher.
It's true.
Afghanistan is another Vietnam where MIC went to get rid of their old inventory. Now new production will start as was after Vietnam.
This: when you leave people quit dying. Iraq/Afgan/Syria: Americans quit dying in an eternal war than only the God's can stop, if and only if God's exist.
That the price of everything will triple in the decade following the war, as the inflation comes home to roost. Except this time, wages won't increase along with prices.
So true Dr Paul so true.
Wag the Dog bitches
I really miss this man on the national stage.
Damn near the sole source of honesty and sanity in Congress.
Which is why he will never get elected to a higher office.
The PEOPLE won't elect an honest man.
They want freebies, or promises of same.
So honest that the little imp fails to mention that he voted to kill babies in Afghanistan because of a fairy tale to which he still pathetically clings.
He voted for the authority to go in and get bin Laden, right after 9/11 occurred. He did not vote for the protracted farce it has become. You suck.
Sadly, the sheeple are already duped beyond saving. They send their loved ones abroad to get killed in stupid wars, and they turn around and spew "we support our troops" and wave the flag and put the slogan bumper stickers on their vehicles.
It's really creepy to me.
It doesn't matter as long as the connected companies got rich.
The USA will collapse from overextending itself, and this ain't going to take dozens of years, merely several at most. Once the government spigot runs dry America's military industrial complex will collapse and all those weapons and technologies will be discarded or stolen by the mafia or rogue groups.
"rogue groups.",... Does this include local and state police?
They already have a good chunk of hardware now. I can imagine when things go bad.
pods
yes, but Russia is quite back within 20 years....and that's Russia
Honestly, what do I get out of the empire? Nothing but crap. Let it collapse already!
Ron Paul don't fight the military Industrial complex too much or you'll end up driving off a dark road some night.
There are just so many evil people making large sums of money off of other people's blood and agony.
At this point, when I hear continued support of US foreign policy it is sounding more like an alcoholic's or domestic abuser's co-dependent spouse...
From TheDailyPaul.com
Ecuador Foreign Minister Patino speaks: "Who has betrayed Who?"Paradox
He stressed that the Ecuadorian government puts human rights above any other party’s interests. Patino also said it is “paradoxical” the person who revealed alleged rights violations is being “persecuted.”
“It should be asked, who betrayed whom,” Patino stressed as he questioned the correctness of calling Snowden’s leak a “treason.”
“Is this betraying the citizens of the world, or betraying some elites that are in power in a certain country?” the Minister asked.
International Violation
The alleged US espionage plan would be violating the rights of “every citizen in the world,” Patino said, referring to Snowden’s claim that the US agencies are “intercepting the majority world’s communications.”
http://www.dailypaul.com/290311/who-has-betrayed-who-equador-speaks-to-t...
http://youtu.be/hdzR5FjObEI
my avatar has done great things for his country since he took over........................i jumped for joy the day he threw the imf and world bank out of quito on their arses.....he closed the u.s. base in manta.....told the u.s. that ecuador is not a vassal state........much to the dismay of our mighty military......he has helped align and unite south america so that the nations are no longer exploited and abused by tptb...... ......he has changed ecuador for the better..................the u.s. govt should take a long, hard look at what is happening.....its spheres of influence are drying up rapidly......that does not bode well for the aging empire.................
and the dollar (cash)
I could not help it sorry.
yes fonz...... as the u.s. fades into the sunset, the dollars influence will shirley go with it....no question about it...........im bracing for deflationary event/debt jubilee/debt liquidation style event as per the other post on iceland......and i just think that physical cash will be the thing people need the most.........i think it will become scarce........but over a longer horizon, you are likely right......the dollar will fade......but im holding the cash for an acute meltdown........and so far, i have been doing ok...its there....its within reach.........sure, i couldve made some nice gains in the stock market over the past several years....but i have zero faith in the market.....zero faith in the fiduciaries.....i have no trust in the system.......so just as many grandparents kept cash in the mattress during the depression of the 30s....so shall i throughout this depression...........no need to apologize btw.....you brought out a very good point........
I'm so freakin bored of this.
lets join a beer and wine blog...........
"...beer blog..."
It's called 'football season' in America where when a ref blows a call like in the Seattle/Green Bay game it gets national attention and is solved (strike settled, replacement refs out).
Personally, I'd vote in the NFL refs to run the joint if they formed a ticket. They seem to have the greater interests of the game in mind most of the time and maybe they could transfer that caring attitude to the country at large.
Here you go.
http://blogs.ajc.com/drink/
This one comes with an iPhone app so the NSA knows what you are drinking.
http://www.wineandbeerblog.com/
i only drink the "patriot beer"....sam adams of course ;)
(from the blog)
"My limited palette has yet to taste an elderberry... I've been tempted to get one of the palette training kits for espresso judges."
Simon Black
lol...nice fonz........you see, in the midst of a slow u.s. death....we can find ways to amuse ourselves.........
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries :)
http://youtu.be/cAy4zULKFDU
Are you going to invest in the patriot fund? No terrorists allowed.
man they ruined such a great word....patriot....now all i think about....when i hear that word.....is drones.............and nsa.......and cheneybushrumsfeldobamaholderclapper...........................................
Nice youtube Doc :)
I had some family over before. The news was on and they did a thing on Snowden. As they were leaving one of my family said "I really hope they get this kid, he should be shot". I said "Do you think people will ever distinguish between their love for their country and their love for their government, like this kid did?". Their response was "I sure hope so"
?????????????????
That sounds like a lot of the conversations I'm having. If people didn't look at me weird before they are now. I look forward to the whispers when they see me coming.
I am going to bed early. Japan can go shit in a hat.
Ugh, like this?
"I would vote for him again!"
"I have nothing to hide!"
"I dont see it as 'blatantly unConstitutional'"
Unreal! Even my father the liberal is pissed off.
Family like that would not stay family for very long. I would rather suffer alone than deal with that sort of bullshit.
I am waiting for the inverse etf.
I couldn't make out your avatar until you just said who it was.
google images search has helped me solve a few of those questionable avatar issues on this site.........
The scumbags in DC couldn't carry this gentleman's jock!
Next invasion target: Ecuador
the u.s. would be taking on the entire continent of south america sans colombia...who are a bunch of foreign aid welfare puppets................
Man Kito I always was looking at your avatar and thought this guy looks familiar. Now I see it. Go Rafa Go
"nothing"
The world has learned that the biggest banks run the drugs from Afghanistan by using US military personal as their personal mercinaries for the drug running. And, the US Attorney General Eric Holder has publicly protected the banks involved in the drug running and terrorist activities from prosecution because that fucker is a criminal.
Yes, that fucker is a criminal. But, so were Ashcroft and Reno and everyone before and in between. They run interference for the
" boyz."
ETA- Through color of law. And the color of law is GREEN!
Yeppers, took me awhile to appreciate how integral the global illicit drug trade is. It's a fucking fire hose of cash for foreign exchange, wars and other such indulgences.
In 1971, there were more heroin junkies in the US Army in South Vietnam than there were in the entire US. Why? Because the CIA's Air America was flying it in for the Hmong tribes in exchange for their help against the Ho Chi Minh trail.
Believe that the CIA is up to their elbows in the opium trade in Afghanistan, too.
It is refreshing to hear an American speak the truth with logic and common sense.
I wish there were a few hundred millions more like Ron Paul.
The world would be a much better place and our view south so much more sereine.
The greatest President EVER that America never had.
Except he voted to attack Afghanistan. What a hypocrite.
Ron Paul voted for the authority to go in and get bin Laden specifically. He did Not vote for the decade long tragic joke it has become. Idiot.
Afghanistan has been known as a destroyer of empires for hundreds of years. The whole thing stinks. It has preyed on my mind ever since the Soviets got spanked.
This will not end well.
i never knew if ron paul gives me hope or desperation......cause he is only one
The whole thing was nothing more than a money making scheme for the MIC
Sadly Mr, Run Paul,who put the ,Talibans(Mujahideens) in Power????,The intelligence,the Langley cowboys,dont forget that!
Irrelevant in all but profits
it all reminds me of robert duvall and the sweet smell of napalm in the morning as the ultimate "only" objective - nothing needs to make sense beyond that - along with of course .... money!
the words: democracy, freedom and liberty are all ways to recruit the kids for a death march - nothing more
all sick, wrong and completely fucked up country - MAY THE WORLD ELIMINATE THE TOOLS OF THE BEAST
hey I actually had a long board in Nam....... c4 in the early morning... about 2am on a tax collector...no aroma...
That the american taxpayer likes it long, hard and deep.
Ron Paul, you are right. I would like you to try and have someone in authority arrest the individuals involved with starting these things, they won't take my complaint seriously.
After all, the General and John Kerry and that King fella and Diane Feinstein are claiming Snowden broke the rule of law, but what about America? I didn't see the troops stop in and check with Iraqi or Afghan customs before they rolled in. There is and was no respect for sovereign nations in the US government. That has to change as in the Constitution it states "All men are created equal", it didn't specify nationality did it?
I love you, man. And I haven't been drinking (yet), so that really means something.
Immediately after 9/11 the taleban beardy weirdies said point blank they will turn over osama based on formal charges and evidence. I thought great, but the media never spoke objectively of this they just went into covering the tough guys in America shouting USA USA USA and the war was on. Ron Paul should talk about WTC7.
A month before the Iraq invasion I was having lunch with a former member of the Mosad, an American business man and me, a Canadian. We all concluded Iraq and Saddam was no threat to the USA.
However, at that time, the public was so full of the media hype, anyone daring to question the motives of the US was looked upon as a traitor. Years later, Americans are starting to realize they've been hoodwinked by George W, Dick and others.
My son in law did two tours there. I told him, don't go anymore, you got children now and they need their father more than those idiots in DC need you.
Hope your son in law is safe and finished with tours.
The first person mentioned in your lunchgroup may have already known what is now painfully obvious, in terms of who did 9/11.
Little Ron has spoken out extensively on 911, always going out of his way to denounce those who refuse to suck down Uncle Sam's fairy tale. He also voted to bomb Afghanistan and kill babies there.
I will never vote for a Bush, of any color, ever again.
Looks like you won't be voting for quite a while ;)
We don't learn because it was sanitizd for our protection. No pictures of the dead, mutilated or wounded. No photos of the bodies coming home No draft so the elite, the rich, and the priviledged never had to worry about their children hitting an IED or being beheaded. The only images we get are the images of the wounded warriors wrapped in a red/white/blue 'feel good about America but don't ask why they have to be this way' packaging.
In the beginning it may have been an honest attempt to rid the world of the Taliban but as with anything profit motives took over and it became about money. Now the soldiers drive only a view miles from their bases in giant slow moving fortresses in order to cut casuallties. Why bother? Just keep up the front that we have a war against terror going on and keep that giant fucking vacuum cleaner sucking money out of the taxpayers wallet.
What did we learn? We learned that we are dumb fucks, and we were probably too dumb to learn even that fact.
We learned that 12 years after they endorse the war politicans will admit they were wrong without actually admitting they were wrong.
Simultaneously, said impish politicians will continue to sell the 911 fairy tale. Guess you gotta keep suckin' off the Bush family if you want little Rand on the ticket in 2016, I suppose.
Afghanistan didn't bring russia to its knees. We gave the warlords missles that brought the russians to their knees and lots ofguerilla training and boots on the ground advisory help and mucho dinero and we built tora bora. then the boomerang hit us in the head when the ruskies left, the al q went after us. Clintoon let us be slapped around and refused to kill bin laden 3-4 times... and threw a few tomahawks at an empty camp.. clintoon gifted us with 9/11. Thanks BJ. We are repeating the boomerang with libya and syria.. manpads dont care what they take down. Manpad fired at commercial aircraft from mosque at end of runway in _______( you fill in the USA city). Hoopleehad Obama/and shit for brains brennan made sure we got nothing out of iraq and nothing out of afghanistan... We died for China....like cheap mercenaries... I love and respect the military. I detest the political bags of vomit squandering our youth. let the scumbag shit and sunny rip one another apart like they did in iran iraq. Now that was a good war..... one worthy of funding both sides.
Keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
The Heroin distributers working the poppy fields in Afghanistan that the US allowed and even promoted think everything went well.
Actually, the Taliban, which was the government of Afghanistan , refused to turn over Bin Laden. That was an act of war and sufficient cause for action, though badly handled afterward. Largely due to the distraction of Iraq, which was totally unjustified.
Invading Iraq was a blunder, but it wouldn't have changed much in Afghanistan had the US not done so. The attempt to create a country out of Afghanistan was always going to fail regardless of how many troops and resources you put into it.
Afganistan is a country. Maybe it is not your idea of country, but it is a country. That may be part of the problem. Perhaps we should keep invading people who don't tie their shoes like we do. People need to get a grip and understand that shoes don't even need laces; haven't you heard of velcro.
So why did the little impman, Ron Paul, vote to occupy Afghanistan?
Bin Laden admitted he had NOTHING to do with 911
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/
http://www.globalresearch.ca/interview-with-osama-bin-laden-denies-his-i...
http://youtu.be/ulWWKK3MLJA
http://911blogger.com/news/2013-02-02/osama-bin-laden-assures-he-did-not...
False: the Taliban offered to turn him over, and Uncle Sam rejected it.
Then Ron Paul voted to BOMB and OCCUPY Afghanistan until the end of time.
"We cannot leave, we were told for all those years. [War criminal George W. Bush and Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama said] If we leave Afghanistan now, the Taliban will come back! Well guess what, after 12 years, trillions of dollars, more than 2,200 Americans killed, and perhaps more than 50,000 dead Afghan civilians and fighters, the Taliban is coming back anyway!"
Very well said Dr. Ron Paul. You, and your succient, well-said articles at their very best. You couldn't be 100% more correct.
Many people and many corporations made billions on this little excursion and THAT is why we were there. Once the money starts flowing, it's a shark feeding frenzy; I saw the same thing in Vietnam. When you're making the $$$, the blood spilled doesn't matter. Afghanistan was a rousing success in the ways that matter to our psychopaths and sociopaths in the inner echelons of the MIComplex... Who gives a shit about winning/losing when you walk out to your multi-million 200 foot yacht.....
I have yet to see a discussion about what the 100X overkill in nuclear weapons really means. I think it means that the US is trying to manipulate the Russians to the point where we can kill them all and suffer no more than a 20-25% loss of population in return. There is no other rational explanation for why we would build so many nukes, and why the Russians, who can barely afford to feed themselves, struggle to keep up. They know that if we get to the point where we can, with 99% confidence, destroy them that we will. One of the biggest lies on the planet is that communism is dead. In fact, communism is the only system that makes sense to the vast majority of the poor people of the world - capitalism is irrelevant to them and is in fact demonstrably their sworn enemy. It is only a matter of time before the poor people of China realize the fact of betrayal of their political leadership - re: warlords and Landlords. It has happened before and it will happen again. I see another Maoist revolution coming, and soon. Meanwhile idiot Americans keep wishing that they ( or, rather, their surrogates, since most Americans are loudmouthed cowards) could just kill another commie ( or terrorist, or Muslim, or atheist, or any one of a whole spectrum of abstracts that the sheeple have been programmed to hate) for christ. Jesus fucking christ. I am afraid that Americans have had their revolution, and that it will never happen again. The bad guys have won. The experiment in liberty is over.
I think Big Ears was better than Ron Paul....
Big Ears had those nice charts....
I admit I scanned quickly through the comments, ready to pounce on the anti-Paul.
Gratifying that I lost that game; unless I missed it, there are none.
But the pro-Paul dwindles, as his voice becomes increasingly overwhelmed by the ignorance that shut him down in the first place.
It can be surreal to witness the last patriot sent to pasture.
But as sad as it is, you could also consider Ron Paul to be a wake-up call.
That's all he needed to be, was trying to be, and that is his legacy.
Ron Paul will not be going away.
He will not be going away because his message is ridiculously simple.
Don't squander it.
Why did you vote for the war in Afghanistan, Ron? Why were you for the war before you were against it?
Please crawl back into your FOX hole and burden us no more.
Don't sling mud at me, clown, because your idol voted to occupy Afghanistan. Deal with the fact that he's a warmonger who spins the 911 fairy tale and attacks anyone who calls out the lie.
Where is the congresscreature who can pick up where RP leaves off?
Is there anyone out there in the wilderness to support as a voice of sanity?
Back in the U-S, back in the U-S, back in the U-S-S-R!
Must. Save. The. Poppy. Plant. Harvests.
Correct. The Vietnamese never defeated us on the battlefield. They just collaborated with useful idots in the US to sabotage the victory.
Another fake war, started under fake pretenses to justify spending bankroll and keeping the drug trade flowing.
Whack JFK + Tonkin Gulf + Golden Triangle = 20 years of war.
Actually, it was the Russians that brought the Pashtuns to THEIR knees. Literally and figuratively. Our primary goal in AFG was to kill UBL. He is dead. The war was won. It was never our intention to bring democracry or a republic form of government or a solid infrastructure or better economy to AFG. Those things are useless in a land of goat fuckers and basically 'cave men with cars and AK's' <-- THAT is ALL that AFG is population wise. AFG has also served another purpose. Every T in the whole world has known that if you want to fight American Soldiers, you go to AFG and that is why we have been there for 12 years, to give the scum a battlefield to fight us on instead of at home. AFG is not a country to control, instead it is a place controlled by countries. Always has been, always will.
The ridiculous and historically lazy 'Afghanistan is the new Vietnam' continue. The two have almost nothign in common and US-backed forces were defeated in South Vietnam ultimately by a highly-trained, well-equipped modern military from North Vietnam.
Viet Cong ceased to be a relevant military force after Tet when their leadership and ranks were so decimated that they never put meaningful forces in the field again. It was all NV regulars from that point on.
Ron Paul voted for the war. The Authorization to use Military Force had his support after 9/11 to attack Afghanistan.