This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Guest Post: Melting Ice And Freezing Fossil Fuels Ambitions
Submitted by James Stafford via OilPrice.com,
It’s not mere anecdotal evidence: Visibly melting sea ice is the best evidence that the planet is warming. So prospecting for oil in the Arctic is a tricky endeavor that must be undertaken slowly and with extreme caution, argues Fen Montaigne, senior editor of Yale Environment 360, author of “Fraser’s Penguins: A Journey to the Future in Antarctica” and other books, and contributor to National Geographic, The New Yorker and Smithsonian magazines.
So just how hot is it going to get? Hotter than we can handle if we fail to reduce greenhouse gas emissions significantly, Montaigne tells us in an exclusive interview in which we discuss:
• Why prospectors should proceed with extreme caution in the Arctic
• Just how hot it’s going to get with global warming
• Why science is being side-lined in the climate change debate
• Why oil companies will have to keep their assets in the ground
• Why we need to rethink agricultural subsidies
• What we can expect next from the volatile EV market
• What really concerns environmentalists about natural gas
• The great fossil fuels paradox
• Why natural gas may not only be a bridge to the future, but the future itself
• Why the US government has no business mandating ethanol
Interview by James Stafford of Oilprice.com
Oilprice.com: We’ll start with the Arctic Sea because so much of your work has focused on this area. Right now, the talk here is of vast opportunities, and vast environmental concern. How can we balance these two, and what is at stake?
Fen Montaigne: I am in the go-slow camp when it comes to developing the Arctic, whether it be the region’s fossil fuel riches, its minerals, or its fisheries. I think the problems that Shell has experienced in its early attempts to drill off Alaska’s coast bolster the case for a cautious approach. Cleaning up an oil spill in that environment would be far, far more difficult than in the Gulf of Mexico, and a spill’s effects would be more severe and long lasting in a cold-water environment than in warm waters.
The Arctic nations — as well as other interested countries, such as China — need to carefully survey and assess the resources of the Arctic basin and draft a conservative plan for their exploitation. That may include a ban on drilling for oil and gas in large sections of the Arctic.
Oilprice.com: How can you make the case for global warming using the decline in Arctic Sea ice, and how profound will the consequences be?
Fen Montaigne: No better evidence of the warming of the earth in the last century — and particularly in the last 30-40 years — exists than the melting of the cryosphere, or ice zones. More than 90% of the world’s glaciers are in retreat, and the disappearance of Arctic sea ice is nothing short of stunning.
I have seen this melting with my own eyes, having spent 5 months researching a book on the Antarctic Peninsula, where sea ice and glaciers are retreating rapidly. Earlier this year, I visited a glacier in Switzerland that has retreated by a half-mile since I last saw it 20 years ago; this is not mere anecdotal evidence, as nearly all the glaciers in the Alps, Andes, etc., are in rapid retreat.
The world is warming. The overwhelming evidence is that it’s caused by human activities. The only question is how hot things are going to get. If we continue doing as little as we are doing now to rein in greenhouse gas emissions, it is entirely possible that the world might be 5 to 10 degrees F warmer in a century or two, which is not a world I’d like my children, grandchildren, or great-grandchildren to be living in.
Oilprice.com: More broadly on the climate change scene, Yale Environment 360 recently published an article discussing the implications of a climate activist movement seeking to persuade universities, cities and other groups to sell off their investments in fossil fuel companies. What’s the long-term logic behind this movement and what will the impact be?
Fen Montaigne: I won’t attempt to predict the impact of the divestment movement. But to me one thing is clear: If in the next 100 years the world’s oil, gas and coal companies develop all the fossil fuel assets that they’re now sitting on, the world is going to be a very unpleasant place in which to live, barring some technological miracle that enables us to suck vast amounts of CO2 out of the air. It’s this realization that is driving the divestment movement and the fight to slow climate change.
Believe me, as a 60-year-old American, living in the most affluent country in the most affluent period in history, I appreciate and value what fossil fuels have done for civilization. I know we’re not going to be able to transition to a non-fossil-fuel economy overnight. But if you keep approving tar sands projects, or massive pipelines, or drilling in the Arctic, when does it stop? When does this movement to a renewable energy economy begin? If I were running a fossil fuel company, I’d be uneasy about the concept of so-called “stranded assets,” because at some point — when seas begin to rise significantly, when weather is sufficiently wild and destabilized, and when things are just too damn hot — people, business owners, and governments are going to say it’s time to stop burning fossil fuels as if there is no tomorrow. I think that as global warming intensifies, it’s likely that a significant portion of the assets of fossil fuel companies are going to have to remain in the ground.
Oilprice.com: As the climate debate increasingly polarizes the American public, science seems to be getting in the way of agendas on both sides. Your magazine recently noted how even environmentalists are ignoring science when it stands in the way of furthering their agendas. Are we entering a period in which scientific facts will be completely sidelined as climate change becomes the strict purview of politics?
Fen Montaigne: It’s indeed unfortunate that climate change has become so intensely politicized in the US and that both sides resort to twisting the facts and using super-heated rhetoric.
From my perspective, however, I think there is a lot more distortion of science on the climate change denier side. Still, when global warming activists ring alarm bells every time there is a heat wave or a period of intense storms, I think that’s a mistake. What happens if we have an unusually cold spring in the eastern US or Europe, like the current one? Does that mean global warming is a hoax? Of course not. Short-term ups and downs in the weather should not be the cause for either side to crow or cry wolf.
I also think it’s unwise when global warming activists warn that it’s “game over” for the climate if something like Keystone XL is approved. OK. So what happens if Keystone is approved? If that means it’s “game over,” then why should any of us worry about reducing CO2 emissions?
I do believe that in the US, we’ll soon be moving into a period where there is less debate about the science of climate change, for the simple reason that it’s going to become increasingly clear that human-caused climate change is affecting the world, from our backyards to the poles. Of course, the debate over whether global warming is real scarcely exists in Europe, which has far less of the contrarian, anti-science streak that exists in the US.
Oilprice.com: There is a significant amount of resistance to the Ethanol mandate, not only because of the connection to food crops with corn-based ethanol. Do you think America is ready for this mandate?
Fen Montaigne: I think that the US’s byzantine system of agricultural subsidies is a mess and needs to be seriously reformed. And I don’t think the US government ought to be in the business of mandating ethanol production.
Oilprice.com: What can we expect from the electric vehicle market in the next 2-3 years? Why have they experienced so many ups and downs? Where has it gone wrong?
Fen Montaigne: I am no expert on electric vehicles, but I am confident that reasonably priced EVs and hybrids will become increasingly common, especially as batteries improve and charging stations become more widespread.
As has been widely noted, the Obama administration’s mandating of far-better fuel economy standards was probably the most important environmental achievement of Obama’s first term. I think that the federal government, working closely with the private sector, also has to become far more involved in stimulating the transition to a renewable energy economy.
Ultimately, it’s innovation and advancement in science, engineering, and the private sector that are going to help solve this climate problem, but a transition as massive and revolutionary as the one away from fossil fuels cannot be done without government involvement.
Oilprice.com: What do you think of T. Boone Pickens’ idea to convert US trucking fleets to natural gas? Is this viable over the long term?
Fen Montaigne: I think using natural gas as a “bridge to the future,” including powering more trucks with natural gas, is a good idea. But many environmentalists are right to be concerned that natural gas is looking less like a bridge to the future, than the future itself. As I said earlier, societies have to take major steps to wean themselves off fossil fuels, and few countries are doing that now, with notable exceptions such as Denmark.
Oilprice.com: Is it possible for the fossil fuels and alternative energy industries to work together to create a viable “transition” period for a sustainable future?
Fen Montaigne: Of course it’s possible. The challenge is that it’s just so easy to keep using fossil fuels, as they are such a compact, relatively inexpensive, and effective source of energy. The profits are enormous, far greater, at this point, than in the renewable energy industry. This is why it is so hard to disrupt the status quo, but that’s what has to happen. What we’re looking at is one of the great paradoxes of history — the very sources of energy that have enabled us to achieve such an advanced civilization and to bring us so many comforts and conveniences are also the sources that threaten to dangerously destabilize the climate that has fostered the growth of human civilization over the past 12,000 years.
Oilprice.com: Are there any significant ways in which the environmental movement has metamorphosed in recent years due to the shale revolution, the natural gas boom, and other energy-related developments??
Fen Montaigne: Leading environmental thinkers such as Bill McKibben have pointed out that the environmental movement used to take heart in the prospect of peak-oil or peak-coal. I think the shale gas and shale oil boom of recent years, as well as the discovery of new oil and gas fields, have demonstrated that fossil fuel use is not going to decline in the next century because oil and gas fields or coal mines are tapped out. That changes environmental strategy, and is one of the reasons that McKibben’s 350.org and other groups are now targeting specific projects like Keystone XL.
And I am sympathetic to one of their central arguments: At some point, you’ve got to stop developing new oil and gas reserves and begin seriously developing alternative sources of energy. Otherwise, it’s going to get awfully hot, and rising seas are going to pose a major threat to cities from Shanghai to Miami.
»
- 29964 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Coldest spring ever? Those who seek to change the world only wish to control it.
Well the idiots cannot control the weather but their fallback is total control of the sheeple plus higher taxes to pay for the global warming tooth fairy. Those professors must be paid well with golden pensions after 10 years while they study fictional science at seminars at 5 star resorts,
My daughter is taking a summer class for college. Her teacher said bring a pocket copy of the Constitution to every class.
Maybe we can find some more like her teacher and right the ship that is listing at 30 degrees
Probably rounding up copies for a good ol' book burnin' party.
I'm a glass half empty kinda guy, though..
They cannot control the weather? I beg to differ
HAARP, Chemtrails, et al?
I love that conspiracy shit.
I've heard about chemtrails and didn't think much of it, but then actually saw some being laid down overhead like a giant tic-tac-toe pattern in the sky this Spring over NC.
I've always lived around major airports and flight paths but these were way different. 2 all-white planes were flying parallel 1-2 miles apart same direction, then 2 more appeared doing the same but coming from opposite direction to complete the next two parallel tracks. Same thing then happened at 90 degree angles to the other patterns by 4 other jets to make the grid pattern. After a couple of hours the grid pattern went from my horizon to horizon.
These chemtrails were also bigger, fluffier than normal ones and they didn't dissipate rapidly. Easy to tell the difference because all of this was going on overhead within 50 miles of a major hub and the normal traffic appeared was going on as normal.
Who gives a shit.
The question is whether we should pay various CO2 taxes or not (Answer: we shouldn't).
That is the perfect description of the 'Liberal Manifesto' ... "Comes the Change we Control". Have you noticed that the Liberal always says thing are so, so bad that they need to be changed and oh, they just happen to know how to change them through greater controls. Study every liberal agenda and you will find "Hope and Change" at it's root.
With the antarctic melting I'll bet penguins are easier to club than baby seals.
maybe club them with baby seals... really get the PETA folks going....
+1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs
It's a big club & you ain't in it...
obviously you've never clubbed a penguin with a baby seal
those PETA folks need a punch in the face.
mmmmmmm
PETA folks
Anybody clubbed them, yet?
Just askin'
Forget baby seals. I say they should start clubbing baby morons and go from there. The country has way too many of them.
Yeah, but first blind them with hair spray, then club em, then dip em in tar sand bitumen for lube, then fire their bloody asses up thru the freakin ozone layer using a compressed freon gas cannon. But getting back to the serious topic at hand, what the hell do we name Greenland when the ice melts?
Iceland II?
Fucking epic, my brotha...
Can we name Greenland New Cleveland?
PALESTINE!
oh ya, People Eating Tasty Animals. They're like Epic Meal Time, right?
http://i.imgur.com/KIgQG.jpg : piglets are bacon-seed
in no korea clubbin seal means food.
In SoCal 'clubbin seals' are bracelets that get you in to all the great places.
I hear Penguins taste like Chicken.
I am the walrus...so I have no idea
geez, "Tyler", this is such complete horseshit.
Pretty much.
Tyler, for God's sake, stop posting articles talking about oil scarcity with the source of the interview someone with NO PETROLEUM ENGINEERING CREDENTIALS!
This Oil Price site is littered with journalists WHO ARE NOT GEOLOGISTS.
For cryin' out loud, you're better than this. You're light years better than this. Get EXPERTS. Geophysicists. Petroleum engineers. Not economists. Not consultants. Not Joe Schmoe who wrote a book on oil this or that.
Sashay over to the Oil Drum. The academics running that site have folks who actually understand what porosity and permeability is. They don't pontificate about the effect of global warming on penguins (which you can find this interviewee doing on youtube).
Well, I'm not a geologist or petroleum engineer and I know that my Jaguar runs very nicely on Iraqi oil, dammit!
scratching nuts
Did you really just say Sashay?
No matter, you're still my favorite poster. :)
Oil depletion DOES NOT EQUAL Global Warming
The idiots trying to somehow link the two are muddying the debate so much that I will hold them personally accountable when we run out of distillate for my monster truck.
Idiot retard doomer CO2 exhalers
Clearly, "Tyler" has added someone to staff who is a complete loon but apparently good with the market enough to let him or her get away with posting this shit and the crap from Pivot Farm that litters this site as well as all the support obama ads - REALLY? Obama? You should ban them from advertising on this site.
You clearly don't have a clue on how internet advertising works, do you?
damn we better send all of our coal to china then, that will reduce pollution (where they burn it inefficently with no pollution controls).... fuktard article....
Right after we send them some coal buring plants and allow illegals to burn coal in their new HUD houses for a tax rebate
Send them CONgress. And K-Street.
We'll be the ones in HUD cribs...or a bunk at happy joy camp FEMA
Ponch and el Heffe will be rockin in su casa, gringo
http://www.google.ca/search?q=china+air+pollution&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=...
China's pollution problems are enormous. In the air, the water, the land.
Chinee have liver lunning of piglet sweet and slolr soup. Onry prace on Eurfth.
0[8)
Gay marriage legal AND global warming is real all in the same day? It's full on slap a conservetard day at ZH. Love it! I suppose if you want to run a Fight Club, you've gotta get the chum in the water.
His Most Holy Invisible Hand is most displeased with your lack of faith in the Force.
Well I think that homosexual seals & penguins have the right to marry because once you give them that right, studies show positive effects towards reversing global warming... I need $10 million more to complete my reasearch on the project...
Koch will give you $20M to stop it.
Fantastic!... I can use it to devote all my time to my next project... BAN DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE
~~~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
As Kedi notes below, warmer temps cause more dihydrogen monoxide to enter the atmosphere. You can't ban the ocean, but you can ban that which causes the ocean to evaporate into the atmosphere accelerating the natural process. But fuck science. It sounds better to say "ban dihydrogen monoxide!" And it appeals to small minds.
Dihydrogen monoxide? Must be a terris, using that kind of kemikal.
As Jack notes, LTER is just saying he's "pro-science" because he doesn't actually know shit about it and thinks it will make him sound less dumb.
When you don't know Jack, he'll call you out.
That's the substance name you need to use the next time you go thru airport security. ;-)
Don't do that.
I'd have to drink the bourbon neat.
Given the level of stupidity in the country, you'd provide a far greater benefit if you'd work on banning t.v. and public schools.
America is filled with morons.
What did you expect under U.S. President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho?
good one.
Earlier today I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if a million Rush listeners suddenly cried out in terror that they will have to give in to their urges now that it's legal.
When gay marriage became legal here in Washington State, it gave me ideas I had never even considered. I divorced my wife of 20 years and tried every gay thing I could think of. I'm bored with all that, now, and I want to try something different - like maybe relationships with household appliances.
Just kidding.
/still married
/still Catholic
Maybe you need to see L. Ron Hoover at the First Church of Appliantology. (Get a german one)
Did the appliance thing work out?
I've heard you really want to leave the toaster unplugged.
Clean your lip.. There is some penguin juice on it
Is that legal now? Guess I gotta try it.
A penguin is driving through the desert and notices that something is wrong with his car. So, he pulls into the first available service station and drops it off for the mechanic to look at. In the meantime, it's pretty hot so he decides to get some ice cream while he's passing the time. After a while, he goes back to the shop to ask the mechanic if he's found anything. The mechanic looks at him and says, "Looks like you blew a seal." The penguin replied, "Nah, that's just ice cream."
@ LTER- I'll blow a fart in celebration of your liberal agenda.
Speaking of urges, please tell all your queer liberal friends to stop anally raping little boys in our public schools and covering up this huge problem that is 2000% bigger than the Catholic pedophile scandals ever were. Thank you in advance!
Had to give you a green uppity on the conservtard bash there LTER...
DaddyO
Brave soul. I am truly saddened to see that so many who identify themselves as anti-establishment are simply corporate and religious shills who don't realize they are being such. Like Rand Paul.
Kinda like Reggie Middleton suggesting using Sploogle Glass to "win over the surveillance state in our favor" lolololol!
The Stark Fist ready to smote?
ZH posts articles to run up the "unique" webtraffic numbers from the mouthbreathing paid-troll Obamabaggers sent out to seek and destroy dissent on all electronic communications from data mining key words. You're excused because you don't know any better.
What is the #1 greenhouse gas by volume? water vapor, are we going to blow dry the atmosphere?
What melted the last ice age?: global warming
The fraud continues to be perpetrated while the fraudsters fly around in carbon gushing aircraft.
And ice melt and warmer temeratures caused by CO2 will introduce more water vapor. The climate is filled with feed back loops, plus and minus.
Fuck science.
We don't need no stinking science!
We control the media.
stick that in your e-cig and smoke it.
Science says
Fuck You
I thought you only spoke for God. Now science too? I am humbled by your Great presence.
I haven't been to church in 20 years.
So you a sciencetologist?
No, he metaphorically attends the Church of Skatan with me.
kedi, where did the co2 come from that melted the last ice age? You neglected to answer that one.
The Clovis Indians were warned about driving Hummers & Escalades... But Nooooooooo... Those fuckers wouldn't listen...
So the mounds were...garages!
Fucking awesome. One more mystery solved.
You know, I read ZH for comments just like this. I have not laughed this much on one thread since I can remember. Time for another Captain and Coke as I read on.
Who said CO2 caused the ice to melt from the last ice age. You are jumping to conclusion there that are not verfied. Perhaps what melted the ice last time was the giant ball of fire in the sky that has millions of nuclear bombs going off every second. Or perhaps it was the lower density of water vapor in the atomsphere.
I am so sick of this global warming BS. It is all about control, nothing more and nothing less. These people want to control everthing you do right down to what you exhale from your lungs. They are sick sick people.
The last ice age continues to melt. The long term trend of rising temperatures is a result of that ice age still receeding.
the methane hydrated
melting out of the permafrost
big problem, not spoken about ..
True, but now you might as well be talking General Relativity to most folks here. All the GOBs and Lowbrows are out in full force.
Scotty, you're fucking fired if you don't fix that Transporter and fucking beam me up. /s
Been going on for long time, and they exaggerate the methane numbers in permafrost... and for the last time, the planet is continuing a cooling trend. Natural oil and gas leakage from sea floors of oceans also occurs 24/7, bigger than Gulf spill, every year, new sea life has evolved around the oil/gas plumes just like the volcanic vents.
FUCKING " A " DUDES !!!!!!!
BRING ON WATERWORLD !!!!
I get to be Dennis Hopper on an oil tanker of my very own !
I am changing the smokes from Marlboro's to Kona Gold, though.
Pirate king of my very own floating grow op oil rig.
Kewel.
A perfectly good page one post - pushed to page seven by a bunch of bitchy neo con and lib tard wannabe scientists.
Global warming, my ass.
We are all gonna drown in hot air, hyperbole, and hissy fit-isim.
Reminds me of my wife during the dreaded PMS week - no rational discussion of any topic.
You argumentative fuckers are all right, and, all wrong, 100 percent of the time.
Get used to it. Real change comes from the center. Of each individual.
Otherwise, we're all gonna die, skewered between opposing egos as the world comes crashing down on both you, and, all the ordinary folks who just wanna get along at enjoying the short sweet experience of being alive.
Wed. June 26th
Today marked the 26th day of June that reached 100 degrees or more.
Tucson AZ
ps: record is 28 days, weather man says all 30 will be over 100
Well, 60 and raining here in the Pacific NW. 3rd year in a row with little to no sunshine this month. Colder than normal temps too.
Enjoy the heat.
Gladly trade you for tornado's.
A little further north:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57590963/record-heat-wave-hits-alaska/
north of the alaskan range , today
92 degrees above zero
last winter -52 below zero
144 degree swing ..
enviormental volitility ...
give it a fucking rest... it was 90F when I was in Fairbanks twenty years ago... with the models these fucking assclowns use we should be doing the backstroke to work in the midwest US by now... fucking curves can be tweaked and tilted to extrapolate whatever agenda you want, doesn't mean that's what reality is going to be... FAKE SCIENCE IS FAAAAAAKE
If you don't like the pot, then get out.............
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah its hot down here in the desert in the summertime..........
Think it will dry up all the drunks wandering around downtown?
I swear, Tucson is the Mecca for winos.
Maybe I was there during Hadj, I dunno, but I've never seen more bums per square foot anywhere like Tucson.
Are Alky-birds like Snow-birds who go south for the winter?
But it's the dry heat!
I'd expect this bull shiite on CNBC. Are we shilling for Al Gore or George Soros today?
gold trashed... ZH trashed.. what's a bugger to do?
BTFD homeboy
Notice at the bottom of the page- zerohedge/abc media ltd. ZH has been overtaken by libtards. They've streamed in as commenters and now doing content control as well... Gotta watch what you type, unless making fun of christian conservatives. Then, just as on ABC, anything goes. Free thought and tolerance as long as you spout the pro gay/global warning/anti business drivel that shallow thinking libs subsist on.ABC/disney has as much appeal/quality as a stinking, steaming pile of dog shit (or the average public school system).
Do some original fundamental research
abc media ltd. has nothing to do with Disney, ABC, etc.
Hint... it may not even be a US domiciled entity..
Go fish
I appreciate and value what fossil fuels have done for civilization. I know we’re not going to be able to transition to a non-fossil-fuel economy overnight.
Translation; 7/8ths of the population needs to be exterminated.
Its for the good of the planet don't ya know.
As an aside to the global warming "science", geologists still cannot agree on what the cause of the ice age cycle is based on.
Gaya must be protected from the evil human virus
/sarc off
I recomend we start by exterminating the people that want other people to die............ like Al Gore..... etc............
"geologists still cannot agree on what the cause of the ice age cycle is based on"
-- PMS?
AGW == total fraud
These cycles have always happened. It was much warmer circa 1000 years ago, plus or minus, and that had nothing to do with carbon dioxide. Don't let people who sell only carefully selected portions of data sway you.
Disclaimer: I live far from human beings and 100% of my electric power is from solar-panels, wind-turbine, battery-bank and DC-to-AC converters - in other words, totally green energy, and about as close to self-sufficient and sustainable as I can manage. And I'm a huge advocate of these sorts of power systems too, and not only for "off-the-grid" folks like me. However, I refuse to lie to further my personal opinions, agendas or goals. AGW is fraud.
That disclaimer wasn't really necessary - you don't prove your green fanatic creds by emiting as little CO2 as possible, but by ordering orders what to do and redistributing their resources to others while keeping a cut for yourself and your big gov / oligharch buddies.
My reason for liking so-called "green" technologies is individualism, independence and self-sufficiency. I don't care about CO2, because CO2 is plant food, not pollution. I do, however, believe it is wise to grow lots of oxygen emitting organisms (plants, algae, etc).
So I really don't have the same perspective as the vast majority of greenies, and I don't consider myself "one of them". To be sure, I totally love living in a crystal clean, clear environment (which I do, with only ~20 humans within 120km of me), but what I care about most is individualism, independence and self-sufficiency.
The oligarchs are certainly no friends of any individualist like me, most certainly including those oligarchs that enslave mankind and get rich off CO2 credits and other predatory authoritarianism.
Global Warming....my fucking Ass.... Ever hear of Own the Weather in 2025...????
Ever hear of "Stratospheric Aerosol Geoengineering...???
Ever hear of..."Solar Radiation Management"...?????
Ever hear of "HAARP"...?????
WAKE THE FUCK UP........
Look up ,and check the fucking sky......
You think all those low flying jets are carrying passengers......???
Delusional fucktards...!!!!!!!!!!
STOP CHEMTRAIL SPRAYING...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see the .gov shills gave me the down arrows.
They either can't use a search engine,or are paid to discredit me or anyone who talks about the terrorist who fill our skies with their toxic soup.
FUCK YOU'S
I guess some people where born to take orders.
Stop Geoengineering...................
Chemtrails cool me off when I'm on the patio.
On a related note, my family practitioner said last week that he is seeing more serious upper respiratory infections since the start of this year than he has seen in his 20 year career.
On an unrelated note, here is an interesting blurb in today's newspaper that deserves to be documented somewhere:
DEAR DR. ROACH: Almost on a daily basis, I have small black spots in my phlegm. My doctor has told me that it is blood. I am concerned that it could be something more serious. I am a veteran of the first Gulf War, and I was exposed to oil fires and burn pits. Is it common for blood to be in phlegm, or should I seek further treatment? — C.T.
ANSWER: Blood in the mucus (phlegm) is NOT common, it is ALWAYS a concern, and you should definitely seek further treatment from a pulmonologist (lung specialist). You almost certainly will need a CT scan. Don't wait.
Come on, ZH! This is the kind of crap I expect to see on Huffington Post or Democratic Underground or one of the environmentalist wacko sites. You guys are better than this. Stick to finance and cut this nonsense out! This article absolutely SCREAMS big government intervention - NOW! WE CAN'T WAIT! DON'T LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE! SURRENDER YOUR MONEY AND YOUR RIGHTS AND WE'LL SAVE YOU!
This article demands everything ZH is supposed to warn us about.
Exactly. The problem with global warming hysteria is that it is just a rationalization for bigger more powerful government.
To hell with that. I'll take warmer weather and no polar bears with a side order of freedom.
It's been four years.. time to leave the campus anyway
This is right up zerohedge's ally. Take away these fuckers, I mean climatologists government funded climate "research" and they'll be lucky to make $20 giving BJ's to congressman in a bathroom stall of the Rayburn building. Actually, that probably how they get their grants in the first place. This climate bullshit goes back to the 1960 and the Club of Rome. Look it up. This farce has been planned for decades. Another way to confiscate wealth from the gullible masses. Remember the carbon credit exchange? Where corporations would be forced to by carbon credits, aka a carbon TAX? Remember that corporations don't pay taxes, you pay higher prices? And guess who gets to manage and profit from these exchanges? This is from Wikipedia, but the references are legit:
The European Climate Exchange (ECX) manages the product development and marketing for ECX Carbon Financial Instruments (ECX CFIs), listed and admitted for trading on the ICE Futures Europe electronic platform. It is no longer a subsidiary of the Chicago Climate Exchange but rather a sister company. Both companies are owned by Climate Exchange Plc a holding companylisted on the London Stock Exchange's AIM market.
ECX / ICE Futures is the most liquid, pan-European platform for carbon emissions trading, with its futures contract based on the underlying EU Allowances (EUAs) and Certified Emissions Allowances (CERs) attracting over 80% of the exchange-traded volume in the European market. ECX contracts (EUA and CER Futures, options and spot contracts) are standardised exchange-traded products and all trades are cleared by ICE Clear Europe[1] (LCH.Clearnet was the designated clearing house prior to November 2008).
More than 100 leading businesses, including global companies such as Barclays, BP, Newedge, E.ON UK, Endesa, Fortis, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and Shell have signed up for membership to trade ECX products. In addition, several hundred clients can access the market daily via banks and brokers in a process called 'order-routing' without having to be a member themselves.
ECX is a member of the Climate Exchange Plc group of companies, founded by Richard Sandor. Other member companies include the Chicago Climate Exchange (“CCX”) and IFEX. Climate Exchange Plc is listed on AIM on the London Stock Exchange, and was bought in April 2010 by IntercontinentalExchange (ICE).[2][3]
So there you go. Fuck this global warming shit and the fucking fucks who promote this fucking garbage. Nuff' said.
Bingo!
Buy your Carbon Indulgences....save the planet, lose your life
Euhudimac: YOU, sir, are a man who does his due diligence. BRAVO. And you are also very eloquent, and the first poster to make me laugh into my drink this evening. Well done. Keep fighting the good fight.
Yeah, nothing changes, until it does, then it isn't our/my fault. Then everyone cries for big government to save them. Repeat through history. Societies fall apart because we become lazy and complacent. We get cheap with what our forefathers sweated mightily to build for us. We get stupid, because thinking and knowing is too hard, so we let others do it for us, to only their benefit, not ours. The ice is melting, the weather is getting wierd. Whatever the cause, there are things to do about it. But we won't. Because we are lazy stupid sheep. I have been watching the stupidity grow since I was a teen, 40+ years now. My only surprize is how fast stupid became the norm. Luckily I got the good times in my life. Now I can watch the disaster movie that is dumbass humanity play out when only the last creaky years of my life will be affected. When I read the comments here I always like to recall the libertarian who didn't want to pay into the local fire department. The firemen watched his house burn down as he promised to pay them to save it. Yeah right. He had the cash to buy a firehall, fire engines and pay for firemen to be there when he needed them. Fucktard indeed.
How about the ass-munches that didn't hire private fire protection services in San Francisco prior to the earthquake. They watched their properties burn while those who paid got the service.
What did they do? Petition the government for government fire services. Too fucking stupid to get fire coverage so daddy government has to provide it. Those people are the real fucktards.
A wise petition. If you are the only one in a neighborhood paying for fire protection, the fire department may be far away..... And a whole bunch of houses may flame up around yours, so even if they get there, it will be too big. Use your brain. Fire departments must have the fullest coverage. So have everyone pay through general tax revenue. You demonstrate the single step thinking of most libertarian types I have met. It is a complex world. Simplistic and singular thinking only works well if you get out into the woods by yourself. But nature will still kick your ass beyond the capability to survive sometimes.
If big government were made up of you beautiful ZH posting fucks, well, then we'd applaud big government.
i know i would.
Then
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cretaceous_seaway.png
Now
http://imgur.com/lwGTPKe
Moar coastal property for all... plus think of all the great scuba diving.
Phoenix by the tides..
ahh..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtMX_0jDsrw
What a bunch of BS.
Sure, the planet is warming, as it has done so many times in the past.
To firmly fix the blame on man made causes is a bunch of crap.
There has been ZERO solid science behind the claims.
Just liberal tree-hugging nonsense wrapped in hypothesis and put forth by researchers fearful of losing their funding.
If the problem is not man-made, their entire field collapses.
The hidden secret no one likes to discuss is that outside of the 'green science' circles, the rest of the scientific and engineering communities mock and ridicule the very notion of man-made causes.
The Divine Wind has indeed spoken, like a fart in a small room filled with small minds with big noses.
Only fair as you are the mouthpiece for a big mass of venting e coli.
Train the polar bears to eat royalty.
Or at least use them as bait. Even Polar Bears have standards.
Anyone know what compound retains more heat and contributes to global warming by an order of magnitude more than carbon?
.....water vapour
Ban water.
This global warming based on carbon is not only bullshit it's just a scam propogated by the government to raise taxes on everyone (everyone uses carbon, it's a product of breathing) More taxes mean more welfare, and more government dependency means more votes which equates to more power.
Simple. As. That.
Dihydrogen Monoxide
~~~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
Funny that American's recognize we HAD AN ICE AGE. The world was an ice cube.
Somehow the earth warmed and the ice melted before humans understood that rubbing rocks together near some fodder could make fire.
WHAT CAUSED THE ICE AGE TO END? It sure wasn't Obama taxing the farts of cavemen.
Somehow I have a feeling that Obama's fleet of aircraft and SUV's that run on rainbows and the tears of unicorns will only get bigger. Al Gore has one up on Obama, Gore's jet and SUV's are fueled on the hopes and dreams of leprechauns.
This is about money, taxes, power. Anyone who doesn't realize this is a brain dead fucktard. These two asswipes don't give two shits about the enviroment.
Somehow the earth warmed
?
Profit!
Some of you guys argue about global warming because average temps are so hard to track which is true. It's easy to measure C02 though. It's going up. It's also easy to test in the lab which gases store more heat. What we are seeing even now is a atmosphere that stores more energy and has more extreme weather both hot and cold events. This stuff ends up effecting the world economy. The debate belongs here.
Fuck science.
OK.
and she can bring her cute friend Religion too..
;
First, weather is not more extreme.
Second, the sun warms the seas, causing them to release more of the stored CO2 When the earth cools the seas will store it again.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
I anxiously await your condescending explanation for why we need to reduce CO2 production in places we haven't been yet, and how it's all the fault of Faux News and the Kochs and George Bush. Say, troll, how can we say with certainty that global warming is manmade when it seems to track with the heat output from the sun? BECAUSE REPUBLICANS!!!!1!!
Though, it is kind of fun when the trolls show up with their fake left-right split and assume that people here fall in one or the other camp. Especially when you agree with them on a point or two and calmly show them why their other points are utter shit. But note that with what I consider the main split in politics, that between statists and non-statists, the trolls are invariably on the side of the statists. That seems significant somehow....
I clicked just for comments and skipped the article. I own a rotary so guess where I stand on 'man made global warming'.
Also what the fuck ever happened to that ozone hole that 'appeared' (over the southpole? can't recall) when I was kid that was going to turn anyone venturing outside into instant fried human? Haven't heard much about it the last 20 years or so.
Like, I dunno, man.
But I got fried a lot when I was in college back then
Teeesssssssshhh
The "Ozone Hole" was a big problem when DuPonts patent on old style freon ran out.
It got solved when the Govt. mandated all A/C had to switch to DuPonts NEW patent.
Ain't science grand?
Science may be grand, but Melanoma is a bitch
Remember that thing about the arctic ice cap melting by 2012? I guess we managed to get through that. Oceans must have risen several feet while we weren't looking. More BS in service of the corporatocracy. God damn, the big lies are getting tiresome.
You're the 1st to say so that I've ever seen.
The fucking Duponts..blame them for marijuana being illegal, too! Fuckers.
Something about hemp fibers, naturally occurring plants can't be patented, and Dupont's new ''synthetic fibers'...
we spent the last 20 years stopping the use of CFC's that caused the ozone hole and prayed it would close. It's not closed but it's smaller. There's nothing more we can do now. The damage is done.
I suggest addressing the issue of Corruption before worrying about oil, and the climate.
Otherwise, nobody's making any sense at all.
And then, I bet Corruption wins.
The sun is making the earth hot, gee that bit of observation would have saved a bunch of money on research. I forgot to mention that the sun varies in strength of warming.
That's right. The sun is hot! How did we miss that? Oh right. It's been hot since before the shit started to get hotter here. But I'm sure you've taken sun measurements and can prove your theory and dismiss all of those "scientists" who claim to know jack shit.