This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Edward Snowden Issues Statement From Moscow, Slams Obama
Via Wikileaks:
Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow
One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.
On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.
This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.
For decades the United States of America have been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.
In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.
I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.
Edward Joseph Snowden
Monday 1st July 2013
»
- 55069 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
...and THIRD amendment.
We are quartering and paying for the spies which spy on us. Think about it!
I don't find his eloquence odd in the least, and doubt he has/needs writers, but maybe that's just me being overly optimistic.
I heard his interview...he's a smart and articulate young man. From what I read (which could be crap), he used to believe in what he was doing. He bought into the 'fighting terror' meme. As time went on, and the more he saw, I guess he approached an epiphany of sorts.
I read he went to Hawaii because that's where Booz tracks all 'the machines' around the world. No one gives up Hawaii AND Switzerland to tell the The Truth knowing it could get one renditioned.
"Just over one-third said he should not be prosecuted for revealing the National Security Agency's collection of Internet and phone data from billions of communications. That was down from a peak of more than 40 percent last week.
The percentage of Americans calling Snowden a "patriot" dipped from 36 to 32 during the last week, while nearly one-quarter of respondents said Snowden was a traitor, up slightly from 21 percent."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/26/us-usa-security-snowden-poll-idUSBRE95P1A420130626
So, still a third are wlling to go "on the record"...be recorded as supporting his actions...they're going to need bigger camps...thats still over a hundred million even with the psy-ops working overtime 24/7 casting aspersions at him.
Still say he's got a deadmans switch, now Putins trying to shut him up.
Well, publicly ;-)
The psy-ops are unbelievable aren't they?
I was forced to watch NBC Nighty News over the weekend (at a beach house with only an antenna).
There was no debate, no news reporting, no nothing... just, 'this and that {insert polital wrangle} to bring ES back to face justice'
Justice would be for his head to be carved next to Lincoln's on Mt. Rushmore and for Obummer's to be put on a pike.
.........head on a pike sounds good, but maybe we can get one of those freedom fighters in syria to eat oblowme. i'd pay to watch that.
By eat, I mean his organs and stuff, not the gay thingy.
I just laughed iced tea through my nose. So thanks for that.
+1
Yes. He does have a speechwriter. The best one in the world. It's called truth.
-Churchill
Lies and falsehoods make for better prose. Sorry. Just the way the human mind works.
Anyone with true conviction needs no ghost-writer. Even when wrong they remain eloquent.
Obama and all his kind lack all conviction. Anytime they go off-script they sound like idiots.
We need more statesmen.
Perhaps from all this, they will reemerge.
Maybe he hacked Obama's telepromter algo. I would prefer that rather than use it for soundbites he reprogram it to make the Failure in Chief sound like the idiot he is.
The Failure in Chief already sounds like the idiot he is.
+1
Bank Guy in Brussels did a couple of convincing posts denouncing Snowden and Assange as CIA shills, his theory being that they are the product of inter-agency rivalry (cia vs nsa), but call me naive, Snowden seems to be the genuine article: A pissed off angry young man with a conscience, like the rest of us. Articulate to boot. Bless him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is a zh regular.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-29/venezuela-new-killing-it-and-it...
Snowden can be genuine but still be a CIA shill.
think ellsburg....and play both sides of the insight towards the good
A genuine shill? Wha?
I'm a combat vet and thoroughly ashamed of what this lost and traitorous government is doing in my name.
THIS 4th of July will remain uncelebrated; while the traitors who occupy the positions in government and appoint themselves ever more priveledge without the commensurate responsibility, and until this givernment is returned to the people and the constitutional base from whence it came, then we as a nation have no need to celebrate a government that has lst it's way.
However, with that said:
I will place a well appointed table draped in black for this nations lost soldiers.
The trick will be when once again they start referring themselves as PUBLIC SERVANTS and not my LEADERS. I lead and give my family direction, they don't. They give to themselves special dispensations at our expense, where criminal activity does not pertain to them while sitting in office, that they go there and become wealthy while lobbyists bribe them to their masters work.
There are 535 politicians in the federal capital who are directly responsible for the destruction of families lives, the pillaging of our treasure to the criminal elite and applying immoral, illegal and unconstitutional laws to the people, but NEVER themselves.
Thursday's a good day to hoist the black flag.
...and begin to slit throats...
I'm in
Primarily the flag part, not gonna be the red white and blue for me this year..
I'll be flying this on the 4th. Suggest others do this or possibly a Gadsden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennington_flag
WAMO, Thanks for your service
US Army
1981
63B
Agree, I haven't celebrated the 'Forth of July' for a long time. However, every year I celebrate our Independence Day, and pray it arrives post haste....
86...half of them outside US, fucking storm is coming godspeed, but 214 more and we have 300 here :)
What is "an informed and angry public"? Does such a creature exist?
"What is "an informed and angry public"? Does such a creature exist?"
It most certainly could. Just cancel DWTS, The Voice, etc. and you'll find one truly outraged public!
Oh wait - you did say informed. Maybe through TMZ or Entertainment tonight?
Max Kaiser got this one right: it's not about foreign intelligence or the war on terror, it's about industrial spying and playing the markets with inside information to finance an imperial expansion of the global banking cartels. The personal data they're collecting isn't nearly as VALUABLE as the financial data they're gathering. Booz Allen is a business consultancy; they sell software that uses this data for banks to profit from. Let's not forget who our government is representing in this affair. The best way to free Snowden, Manning, and all the whistleblowers to come is to focus on draining the swamp:
28th Amendment (The Constitutional Emergency Amendment)
Corporations are not persons and shall be granted only those rights and privileges that Congress deems necessary for the well-being of the People. Congress shall provide legislation defining the terms and conditions of corporate charters according to their purpose; which shall include, but are not limited to:
1, prohibitions against any corporation;
a, owning another corporation,
b, becoming economically indispensable or monopolistic, or
c, otherwise distorting the general economy;
2, prohibitions against any form of intervention in the affairs of government by means of;
a, congressional lobbying
b, electoral sponsorship or advocacy
c, educational sponsorship or publication
d, media news reporting
3, provisions for;
a, the auditing of standardized, current, and transparent account books
b, closing the FRB and the establishment of state-owned banks
c, civil and criminal penalties to be suffered by corporate executives et al for violation of the terms of a corporate charter.
STUD
"Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me."
Indeed.
No. Fear.
I read a quote awhile back that resonates more and more ... "A brave man dies once ... a coward dies every day". Indeed
Considering the huge number of Americans accusing him and all the other whistle blowers of treason, if I were in their position I would think twice before risking my freedom and lifestyle for such ungrateful bastards.
They are not ungrateful. They are frightened. There is a big difference; ungrateful is a philosophy that keeps one down, whereas the frightened will eventually rise up.
We will see when -- not if -- they rise up. People cannot be frightened of their own government forever. For a very long time maybe, but history shows us that there are no fearsome governments that lasted forever.
+1 Always enjoy your posts.
Freddie,
What manner of troll have you pissed off? You give a simple complement to Cougar and some dipshits feel the need to hit you with red arrows. Show yourselves trolls, stop hiding behind the arrows and confront Mr. Freddie in the open. Why the fuck would you waste time to chase Freddie around the interwebz just to give him a red arrow? Freddie, granted you have possibly the goofiest avatar on ZH, but that is no reason to junk a guy. Is it? Fuckin' trolls...
Oh ya, back to the thread. Not sure if you are the real deal Mr Snowden, but this was a well written letter.
Well, fellers, I'd say we scared the crap outta someone with all the down arrows as evidence.
People Are Strange (more like some people posting here & haton on me are pretty F'ed Up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3CHi_9sxj0
Sung (and probably written) by a guy who's dad (Admiral) was commander of US Naval Forces in the Gulf of Tonkin on the night LBJ really $tarted The Vietnam War. $$$$$ Another scam that got 55,000+ American kids killed and a lot more Vietnamese because LBJ and his MIC cronies were greedy. Just years after Ike warned us.
Morrison goes from a nerd at FSU to a hunk pop star in LA in a few years? Operation Mockingbird anyone?
I am still not sure about Snowden but I am leaning towards him being a hero but they know we want a hero. They just lie so much to us. Based on their endless demonization of Snowden - I am guessing he may be the real deal.
Now that I think about it, they are neither ungrateful nor frightened. They are just repeating what they've heard on TV. The same TV that gives them 99% of the information they have.
They are sheep.
That is a commonly repeated lament. You will get a lot of up-votes for repeating what everyone wants to believe.
Everyone wants to believe that the reason the nation is dying is because people are stupid and lazy. That they are below the rest of us, unevolved and unwashed.
But think for a moment. What if people really are afraid?
Fear halts us, stops our forward motion. We are evolved to stop everything for fear. Fear is the mind-killer -- but only for a little while. Then when the edges of annihilation are known fear gathers us up, mans us up, circles our thoughts into gates and walls and motes and backs us up against our children's futures as if their future were something alive that we gave birth to ourselves.
Which of course it is.
People. Will. Rise.
They will rise and sweep this fearful government into the furnace of our all-consuming outrage, there to burn it with the lasting fire of the our natural will to be free of fear.
Fear is the greatest tool of manipulators.
Desire is the flip side of that coin.
Gotta run and get me a Big Mac...
CH1, yours is a great mind, but I gotta disagree. HOPE is more powerful than FEAR. That single word got us eight fucking years of pure bullshit, that a majority thinks is fine wine and cheese.
I'd bet on hunger. Fear is a blunt instrument. Hunger & sex can be blunt OR nuanced.
I speak (actually write) from what I see. Of all the people I interact on a daily basis, ONLY TWO seem to be able to "see" past the MSM propaganda.
Everyone else, when I say something that contradicts the "common knowledge", they either raise an eyebrow or they change the subject visibly troubled by the fact that what I'm saying CAN"T MAKE SENSE.
I really hope that I'm wrong and you are right!
Interestingly the ability to "see through it" does not seem to be all that predictable based on people's background, age or upbringing.
I have been frustrated on many occasions as I explained what should be a relatively simple concept only to have some lame MSM bullshit regurgitated back to me in leu of an informed answer.
Having said that, many more people are ready to explore different answers and look at things differently. The continual re- examination and re- evaluation of the JFK murder is a good example.
The combined mental might of millions of those who ARE informed is indeed something to behold.
Crisis need not create opportunity just for the Elites.
When they ridicule you, they are defending their last remaining safe place -- the comfort of a vanishing past.
When all we have left are memories and no clear way forward, we fear change and the future. We see no path, find no way through the thorns, cannot sail our ships to a safe port free of hidden rocks.
This is no accident. Our governments -- with the collusion of our media, religious leaders and educational systems -- have convinced us that we have no viable future, only the past. That is because they made the most money and had the most power over us during the recent past, and they have no assured way to carry their influence into the uncertain future where unliving, undead things can only decline and be replaced.
But humans embrace the future when they choose to have children. It simply happens; parents have no fear except for the well-being their offspring. Institutions on the other hand are barren and from the lessons of history see nothing in the future except evidence for their own decline. They then take our natural optimism and twist it into a shadow of their own dread, hoping to slay in the cradle a future that might not contain them.
But that is silly. Living beings belong to the future only. Your friends need to overcome their link to media and it's grotesque death-motif. We do not need to go down with that ship. The admonition to "kill your TV" is as true today as it ever was.
Remind them that the future reels us in, and we live there forever, but we have to fight for it. All other things must perish and will, taking their immortal desire with them into the Hell of forgetfulness.
I dunno cougar, I think as you do, and moved to Texas hoping enough people down here would and will eventually feel the same.
I may have been wrong. Many people, especially in my church, will acknowledge corruption, but things getting bad enough to take matters into our own hands, I'm not so sure, despite all the gun owners here. Not feeling real encouraged these days.
Shit, Coug. That is some of the best writing I have ever seen here on ZH or anywhere on the net, in fact. And you nailed it (and expressed it dead on) with the fear stuff. I have been stymied by the responses I have received when I have displayed incontrovertible info showing the gov's nefarious deeds. The listeners were PETRIFIED of the implications of a terribly rogue, immoral government.
"The listeners were PETRIFIED of the implications "
No, Not petrified. That is the visual symptoms of the body when the brain just encountered something that made it update 10's of thousands of beliefs, opinions, understanding of events, and understanding of the ramifications.
Something like what you tell your 40 year old son/daughter they are adopted. They just glaze over for a while. They look petrified.
The ramifacations for the brain is "Everything you know is possibly wrong, Please verify"
Standing Clapping Cougar.
If you turn off the TV, a lot of that programming starts to wear off.
"They are not ungrateful. They are frightened."
No, they are stupid and/or undereducated, mostly apathetic, successfully propagandized occupants of the US, twittering and otherwise BSing about nothing with their tech toys and spending vastly more time on eating, rutting, and other leisure activities than they spend on important issues like this. Which is precisely why we have the government and financial system we have and are in the economic situation we are in. The only thing that will lead to significant change is an end to the gravy train and the games and circuses.
"No, they are stupid and/or undereducated..."
By design.
They do propaganda and schooling because it works, as does advertising.
They do propaganda and schooling because it works, as does advertising.
Absolutely.
First off, just gotta say I think Snowden is the real deal. He not only "sees" the issues, but he articulates them in a way that Patriots skorry.
Stupid is a harsh word, but I have to admit that many are- especially I think, in the home of the formerly free and brave. Undereducated? Maybe it's "over taught". The wisest people I know are not even college educated- like Edward here. The most important thing IMHO in this life is to learn how to learn. Don't rely on teachers, they have an agenda of personal bias- even if they themselves don't realize it.
There will always be the bottom-feeders, the truly stupid, the ones that don't want to know. But, I had lunch last week with an old friend and customer. He is 72 years old, and has headed his own company for nearly forty years. I started telling him about the zeitgeist we live in about five years ago. He said I was crazy. Now, he asks for my opinion on everything from Snowden to Egypt to precious metals.
This pleases me. Not because I want to be "right"- which is actually a curse in many ways, but because he's arrived at many of the same conclusions, on his own, that I have. Now if I could only get him on ZH.
awellplacedempshouldturnthetide
Don't you believe it.
Brits have been frightened of their government since at least the days of Oliver Cromwell. And I see nothing that suggests they will rise up against the gang of criminals and gangsters who run the country and rip them off each and every day.
The secret to the British Empire was always Cricket, Rugby and Tea. Possibly Crumpet as well, but Eton boys were known to bat in the Roman fashion.
If you think I'm joking, cricket is about the only thing that stops the Indian - Pakistan nuclear hoe down each year, and there's a lot of involvement with the outcome in the darker places underneath all the crooked gambling fixes. Lot of money in sport, and a lot of geopolitics and crowd control too. American sports though - ye Gods, too much faffing around. Six hours of foreplay for a 90 minute game, you'd need to be mentally dull for that.
p.s.
If you don't understand why the Brits asked a Dutch man & woman (the woman is the key) to come play Monarch, you don't understand the history of it. Always about business, it's always about business. (Hint: those tulips were the by-play of a prosperous Empire, look up the history of Run and nutmeg some time).
"People cannot be frightened of their own government forever."
That's true - but what scares me is how long they can remain apathetic......
Sorry, double-tap.
I agree with you Cougar.
When doing something risks losing what they have, they will stay frightened and in their path.
But when you have nothing (or believe you shortly will lose it) you have nothing to lose.
The phrase "I'm just an average guy with nothing to lose" gets dangerous when it gets in the 10's of millions.
Even if it isn't the majority opinion. (like in 1776)
I'll now topple your argument like a house of cards. Watch closely.
"history shows us that there are no fearsome governments that lasted forever."
There is not a single state or nation or government or anything else that has existed forever, let alone continuously for a period of more than about 3000 years, average being a few hundred years. The statement is false under all interpretations.
Revised to ""history shows us that there are no fearsome governments that lasted long.", it remains unequivocally false. Hundreds to thousands of years is a long time.
Same applies to "People cannot be frightened of their own government forever." Indeed. And they generally aren't, though that has no relation to your subjective appraisal of the government in question, as regards fearfulness or anything else.
"the frightened will eventually rise up."
History, actually, shows this is the case but not at all in the sense you imply. The people do indeed riseup, particularly the rural agrarian peasantry, in fairly predictable cycles. That being said, these peasant revolts are crushed with virtually no notable exceptions in recorded history, to my knowledge - they almost never, for example, toppled a nation-state government. The cycle simply repeats itself. The tyrannical government always comes back. Name any supposed exception, I'll gladly destroy it.
"For a very long time maybe", yes, for a very long time, as in the entire duration of any given government's existence as such. Everything in human life exists in a cycle. People rise up, people are crushed, nothing is resolved. Repeat. Reason? The physical and biological facts underlying human existence as such cannot be altered by protest or revolt. They may change over thousands or millions of years, but only according to their own internal logics, modern scientific possibilities aside. Rising up does not alter human biology, physiology, or psychology. It may alter the formulas describing what is needed to maintain a society with a given configuration, but it does alter the reality those formulas may have described. Revolting over inequality, for example, does not alter the social factors which give rise to inequality any more than revolting over high food prices impacts the physics and chemistry of food production.
I get it. People don't like uncertainty, they like to feel informed and in control and secure and hopeful, no matter how inappropriate these feelings are, as regards reality. This is entirely unhelpful to the task of actually purposively altering reality with some desired goal-state in mind. To change reality, it helps to acknowledge it first, and to at least try to comprehend it, even if the latter is never entirely possible.
I am disappointed that so many are so naively optimistic. Reality will prove very disappointing, if they ever choose to acknowledge it.
We have gotten nowhere, as the current state of the world demonstrates, by grasping blindly at any shoddy, nice-sounding solution to a hard, complex, stubborn problem. For all the social, economic, moral, and political progress I am insistently and endlessly being told of ... nevertheless, here we are, all the same.
Of course, the forefathers of idiocracy could be told what to think in virtually every endeavor... I'm not sure it's fair to judge any state by these folk... despite their vocal majority.
This reminds me of our previous revolution and those true patriots who called for the overthrow of the then fascist Redcoats. Death, by law, to the new Redcoats, bankers!
Manning is a traitor fag who should be executed while Snowden is a hero.
You can't have it both ways unless you are a fool in your thinking.
I fully agree.
More comments below.
Well, you get the "Lightning Rod" award.
#1 Manning hasn't plead guilty to any betrayal / treason
#2 being gay isn't a crime and you're fuckface deserving of a kick in the teeth for even POSING as a patriot much less freedom-loving while attacking someone for being gay
#3 anything Manning has been accused of doing is exposing MASSIVE treason & corruption by your SLAVE MASTERS. You obviously love licking the balls of your slavemasters so I question why you attack gays.
Manning sold out his brothers in arms and the constitution he swore to defend for a case of KY and a golden dildo.
Dont like the military, dont enlist. If anyone deserves a kick in the teeth its that misguided homo freak. And hopefully he'll get much, much worse very soon.
Manning put boots on the ground at risk by revealing secrets to the enemy. Hate the war on terror or not, revealing military secrets is far different from informing American civilians that their own govt. is spying on them.
Im a slave to no man or govt. so fuck you and your suppositions
The only "enemy" that Manning revealed "secrets" to were the American people.
It's the commanders, not the military - I'm fine with the military.
I'm not fine with treason at top levels of military control and non-military legislators.
It is the duty of every person to go farther than "not joining up" but to overthrow, by any means necessary, acts of treason by "high authorities".
The open multiple execution of children and journalists is NOT MILITARY SECRETS.
It's WAR CRIMES, like exposing Hitler sending Jews to the ovens.
Hitler loved kicking gays in the teeth and having them tortured for medical experiments.
Congratulations, your gay-hatred joins you at the hip with a sociopathic eugenics demon.
Manning was a low level tech who saw his government lying and clumsily did something to expose it.
Snowden is a hell of a lot smarter. He actually thought most of his plan through (except his escape plan) and formulated a sound philosphical rationale for his actions.
The difference between Manning and Snowden is intellect. That's why Snowden will probably avoid a cell and Manning will probably never get out of one. In all fairness, Snowden was able to learn from Mannings predicament. Hopefully the next person can learn from Snowdens predicament.
Facts are stubborn things.
The information released by, and actions of, Bradley 'Fresh Fish' Manning are considerably different than that of Snowden.
Manning had a myriad of options available to him to have his revelations and grievances heard within the system and acted upon. Instead, he chose to go outside the system and release massive amounts of secure information to foreign nationals during wartime. He violated his oath, endangered lives and it is nowhere near over.
People can piss and moan about the unjust nature of war, how the oath is too restrictive, how their should be no secrets, the flawed military grievance system and how patriotic his actions action may have been. I dare say that most (but not all) of those who travail the loudest for poor Bradley have never been to war, have never been anywhere near the pointed end of the spear, have never had to entrust their lives COMPLETELY to others nor have any real perspective on the level of real-world threats facing this nation. Most only have a depth of understanding equal to or less than that which they pick up at Starbucks or from the NYT, HuffPo and CNN.
Unfortunately, that is not the real world.
Most of those who have been to war, who have served at or near the pointed end of the spear and have had to put their lives and trust into the hands of others, QUITE UNDERSTANDABLY, feel immensely betrayed and think Manning should be prosecuted to the greatest extent possible.
For clarity, my words are not to be taken as to condone all of the wrongdoing being revealed about our government. Far from it.
But Snowden's situation is in a completely different ballpark than that of Manning.
There are no such options.
Just go check with Pat Tillman.
Oh right, they shot him to death.
Nevermind.
Manning as well as Snowden, both swore an oath of silence in regard to "state secrets", but they both also swore an oath to "uphold and defend the Constitution" As did Obama, Congress and everyone in the military as well as the traitors at the NSA. It's pretty obvious that the oath to the Constitution takes prescience over all other oaths. The truth is that the "secrets" that Manning revealed were more of an embarrassment to the people in power than a help to our "enemies"
It's kind of ironic that the bravest guy in the USA, before Snowden was a wimpy gay guy.
Both Manning and Snowden are true American heroes!
This is where I respectfully disagree with you. I think Manning was intimately familiar with the crushing bureacracy of the system. He knew that there was no recourse within the system - only outside the system.
I am not aware of any instance in which an internal military whistleblower was able to sound an alarm, based on classified information, and have policy altered as a result. If you are aware of an instance where "the system worked" so to speak, I would be interested to learn of it.
I agree that Mannings methodology for release was flawed and could have been handled better; but I am not aware of any people who have died as a result of his release.
I am aware of many who have died as a result of government lies, crimes and misdeeds.
When the scoreboard of innocents killed is tallied up, from what I can tell, it's FedGov hundreds of thousands and Manning zero.
"Considering the huge number of Americans accusing him and all the other whistle blowers of treason [...]"
And who is tallying the "huge" number?
I will not be celebrating the 4th this year in ky I will be celebrating we still have men like mr snowden godspeed
A true Statesman, I raise my glass a drink to Mr. Snowden.
Indeed! I'll be pouring a nice KY bourbon for Mr Snowden.
I have a very large flag which will be flying upside-down...and having a drink to people like Snowden right-side up.
Replace the stars and bars with the Gadsden Flag.
I will raise my Gadsden Thursday in Snowden's honor...
If Obama were an honest, moral individual, not one with an agenda to "fundamentally change America", this would never have happened...not the spying on American citizens, and not the lying duplicity of the Kenyan in Chief.
Who is this informed, angry public you speak of?
The shoppers of Walmart?
Only on Black Friday.
funny, I do feel like a target, my footprint is out there, come and get me and my ilk, fuckers
"The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves." -Lenin
Snowden is an op designed to control the opposition. The dude doesn't exist. One video, no pictures, mysterious communiques issued by third parties....
His name should be Caucasian bin Laden. I have great faith that a huge number of people will fall for Snowden like they fall for everything else.
I'm not following your story arc here?
We have no photos of Snowden in airports in Hong Kong or Moscow, do we?
I don't believe photos count for much anymore.
Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and Reddit would disagree.
Thousands, if not tens of thousands of people would have come into contact with Snowden in his recent journies through some international airports of the world. Not one pic from a passing tourist with a cellphone that saw the most talked about man in the world. Not one.
May want to change your screen name to "All Out Of Brains".
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" or some such.
Worthy speculation, but speculation nonetheless at this point.
In the end, the issue is not Snowden but total, unconstitutional surveillance.
> In the end, the issue is not Snowden but total, unconstitutional surveillance.
Agreed. That was Snowden's job, to let us know we're being watched.
The knowledge of being watched is far more chilling than the actual spying.
"Next in importance to personal freedom is immunity from suspicions, and jealous observation. Men may be without restraints upon their liberty: they may pass to and fro at pleasure: but if their steps are tracked by spies and informers, their words noted down for crimination, their associates watched as conspirators, who shall say that they are free? Nothing is more revolting to Englishmen than the espionage which forms part of the administrative system of continental despotisms. It haunts men like an evil genius, chills their gaiety, restrains their wit, casts a shadow over their friendships, and blights their domestic hearth.
The freedom of a country may be measured by its immunity from this baleful agency. Rulers who distrust their own people, must govern in a spirit of absolutism; and suspected subjects will be ever sensible of their bondage."
The Constitutional History Of England Vol II (1863), pg. 288
by T. E. May
I have been pretty confident in Snowden's legitimacy up until I considered your point, and I have not yet thought of a counterargument... It just doesn't make sense that there would not be a single picture of him anywhere. Come to think of it, there really is a bit of an Emmanuel Goldstein element w just a single picture of him splashed across every story.
Disguise(s)? Perhaps, but that only further suggests that he either has experience in such things or help from those that do.
I'm not fully convinced but like I said, I am having a hard time explaining this away. Please share if you have a reasonable explanation...
Thank you for considering my point.
In my own defense, I'd like to remind all of my beloved downvoters that I was telling you, on this board, to buy bitcoins when they were at ~$10.
Ignoring me isn't wise.
it sure is. bitcoins will crash to 0.0000000000000001 and be useless. In that time I could have had gold & silver instead of having useless btc and unsafe "exchanges" which could be branded criminal at any time to link back to me as money-laundering. BTC are insecure for transit & irreversible too. Useless to me. Nothing tangible? Fuck no. Garbage. At any price bitcoins are supreme garbage and I consider them toxic.
I bought a bunch of btc when they were going up to $3-$20. I traded a good chunk of them out for Ag and Au when they hit $200+ on down.
You are a dipshit if you can't see a good deal.
You're a gambler. Many others gambled and lost.
I'm an investor & I use risk management strategies - none of which can be applied to the only-risk/all the time situation of bitcoin.
I can estimate reward vs risk for GLD puts or SLV calls or SPY options.
No one can estimate anything on btc. They can go to 10 billion and 2 cents in the same hour.
Unstable.
I can get a lottery ticket with much more anonymity for a cheaper price.
they didn't know who to look for and then he wasn't in public anymore.
You won't find me anywhere on facebook, reddit, etc., either. Not one picture of me has actually been on the Internet PERIOD.
snowden is an unwitting asset who was covertly assisted in his intelligence gathering.
shadow government factions fighting for turf? or a limited hangout to announce to the sheeple what the new normal looks like. we'll see if ANYTHING he revealed is acted upon in a meaningful way
Snowden is both a turf war and a limited hangout.
US intelligence is an operation of the Money Powers, not of the US government. Snowden has utterly destroyed the credibility of the Obama administration, Congress and the entire diplomatic corps. Politically, the US is near where Russia was in the late 80's.
But the intelligence sector, the Bankers' Intelligence Sector to be more precise, is still in full swing and no one can stop it. The power of spying in the USSR, East Germany, China, Nazi Germany, etc. is the fact that everyone knows they're being spied on. It's easier to control people if they think they're being watched.
We'll never see Snowden again because there is no Snowden.
Interesting observations, but would require that China, Russia, and other countries are playing along. Russia certainly knows whether they have the guy in their airport.
If they are part of the gag, the meaning of this whole affair is far, far different than anything discussed so far
Putin calls on Snowden to stop harming "our American partners".
There ya go.
Lots of possible reasons for that statement, e.g., Putin takes on the position of moral high ground and avoids evil empire appearance.
Your theory is as good as anyone else's. My post was to prod you to carry through with the thought if you really believe it. Which game is afoot? Who is Putin collaborating with? Deeply important questions here as they point to the forces that will define the next chapter.
> Who is Putin collaborating with?
Putin is no fool. The hands that control the US intel racket are more powerful than Putin's.
The wise man makes a deal rather than fight when confronted with superior force.
My guess is that the situation is more subtle, and more dangerous. It seems no one is happy right now - lots of international intrigue. Time will tell.
Maybe that is what they call wisdom from where you come from, but from where we come from, we call it something else!
Save your yellow talk for Rachel!
Better to be a live wolf than a dead lion, amigo.
...oh pluheeze...is that the best you have... Mr. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS LISTEN TO ME BECAUSE I'M A SELF IMPORTANT AZZHOLE... Putin is fuking with BO... and telling Snowden to save all the best bits of intell for Russia... Putin may be many things... but stupid isn"t one of them...
> Putin is fuking with BO
Barry is almost as important to Putin as the pimple on Putin's ass. Putin is working with Barry's employers.
after that interview about the syrian rebels being cannibals? Fuck no.
You are clear out to lunch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YsOsC23MAo
Yeah, that "our american partners" is loaded with bitter irony. If one followed the news over the past few years Putin, used that same phrase with cutting sarcasm after we pulled something on him.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/29/speech-nsa-snowden-j...
***We'll never see Snowden again because there is no Snowden.***
I'll bet you didn't believe in shit until someone rubbed your nose in it.
If this guy was a plant the government and the whores in the MSM would all have their stories straight. They would all be sing off the same song book. Instead they have been stumbling over themselves try to figure out how to handle the situation. They don't know how to deal with it. This more than anything proves he's the real thing.
The interview with Edward Snowden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOCdxfkNXB8
> If this guy was a plant the government and the whores in the MSM would all have their stories straight.
He's a plant to fuck up the status quo -political and media - to give a free field to those that actually own the Surveillance State.
The same people that own the monopoly on the issuing of currency and credit in the US are the same people that rule the Surveillance State. Snowden is their kitten.
if he for real list his intel leaks.
show us the money shots.
how about snowdon leaking something with a name jfk,nixon bush or blair.
anything.
he could start with the true story of the dead us ambassador of libya
Yours is an ugly dream, from which you would be fortunate to awaken.
Your dream of the one, brave man standing up against people that kill children for fun is uglier.
If Snowden actually existed, he'd already be dead.
Exactly what tyrants have alway told us.
Tyrants tell us to comply, not to think.
I'm suggesting you use your brain rather than your emotions.
We'll see. In the meantime try not to outsmart yourself.
> try not to outsmart yourself.
I could have used your advice in 1978. Where were you then?
Ha! I was outsmarting myself. +1
no, Tyrants do NOT tell you to comply.
They shoot your children and then expect you to figure it out.
Then shoot you if you don't and move to the next house.
I'm starting to think auto-junking you is a good habit.
So he's the new Emmanuel Goldstein? I'm paranoid enough to at least consider it.
That said, I'm definitely enjoying him thumbing his nose at the US government, regardless of whether this is all real or an elaborate act of fakery.
Edward Goldstein, indeed.
I don't care if he does not exist. They fucked up by creating him. I have not seen a picture of Jesus at the buffet at sizzler but that does not stop billions of people from believeing in him.
They created him to get people to go all emotional when he gets killed in a plane wreck/car wreck/hit job/etc. They WANT people to react so they can have an excuse to crack down.
This is most peoples' first Police State so I understand if not everyone groks what's going on.
I believe that's possible.
Should be careful what they wish for.
They must have created his father too.
His dad doesn't even know if it's him because he hasn't spoken to him:
"Snowden said he had not spoken with his son since Edward left the country last month and revealed classified information about the National Security Agency's surveillance and data-collection network.
"I love him. I would like to have the opportunity to communicate with him," he told NBC."
ZH used to be full of people that had brains, not people that get sucked into hero worshipping whoever the mainstream is pushing this week.
Thanks for the reply and completely missing or ignoring my point.
"ZH used to be full of people that had brains, not people that get sucked into hero worshipping whoever the mainstream is pushing this week."
To me it's your brain we should be questioning. Main stream isn't pushing him as a hero, but rather a traitor. May want to work on your critical thinking skills.
I don't worship anyone, not even the big old guy in the sky they keep telling us about in that big story book.
Swing and a miss, you may want to try again.
> Main stream isn't pushing him as a hero, but rather a traitor.
It doesn't matter what they call him. The Mainstream was pushing him hard, as they push all of their operations.
If Snowden was working for himself, hardly a soul would have heard of him. How many people know about Michael Hastings vs. Edward Snowden?
Hastings, actual opposition, is murdered in a "car accident" and gets a little mention, then poof! Down the memory hole.
Snowden is a media circus. A media circus is a sure sign that it's an op.
It does matter what they call him. Even our politicians (criminals) have branded him as such, without the presumption of innocence and due process.
I have no facts to back up my beliefs, and neither do you. If you have any, please feel free to post them versus your conjecture.
The simple fact he's "revealed" a world wide spying/recording network run by the US AND he's still alive could be one reason why he's still in the news. Agreed that Hasting's story just disappeared, but he's dead and there's only the "official government" side of the story. Too much conspiracy theory has become conspiracy fact, so it's hard to know what to believe any longer.
Remember that the BP spill happened, they denied much, and now it's no longer in the news. Doesn't mean it wasn't real or didn't happen. It disappeared around the time Fukashima happened, and now that's no longer talked about either. Am I getting anywhere?
> I have no facts to back up my beliefs...The simple fact he's "revealed" a world wide spying/recording network run by the US AND he's still alive
Prove to me that he's alive.
Where one does not have facts, one can still determine relative probabilities of various explanations based on deductive logic.
I can't find a picture of him taken after the Greenwald interview, anywhere. If someone can provide one, great.
You have gaping holes in your logic. One cannot state one unproven fact to support another.
One could point to the fact that he's still releasing statements and information as proof he's still alive, but even that isn't proof. Short of a pic with him and a current paper, there's no way to prove factually.
Keep throwing out irrelevant questions and misdirection to keep your theory alive.
Ultimately he doesn't matter since the cat is out of the bag. I have no doubt there is an internal struggle between factions within the government at play here.
So you have no proof that he's alive, do you? If you can't prove if he's dead or alive, why do you trust, on faith, these mysterious communiques of his being floated out via the mass media?
> Ultimately he doesn't matter since the cat is out of the bag.
Snowden didn't say anything that any student of Echelon didn't already know. The only difference is NOW everyone knows that NSAJPMorganSachs is now spying on everyone.
That was Snowden's job: to let you know that you're being watched. He didn't tell you the names of anyone doing it, did he?
prove to me Jesus existed.
ZH is not mainstream. so if msm is portraying him as a traitor, then it should be no surprise that he is accepted here as anything but.
As far as the people doing it....he did not have to name names. the people being the loudest about him being a traitor pretty much say it all.
> if msm is portraying him as a traitor
The MSM is portraying him as real. You're supposed to believe he's real based on one video and their word.
I don't have any facts. I stated that several times. Comprehension failure on your part or just ignorance?
Snowden has stated he purposely has avoided names and would rather keep it at an organizational level.
Again, I'm just an observer of history and not directly involved in the beef other than to fight to keep government in it's box as the Constitution was clearly intended to do.
I'm done with you. You've failed to convince me of anything other than you're inability to debate logically.
Good day sir!
> Snowden has stated
Correction: The MSM has reported that Snowden has stated.
> Good day sir!
Returned, cubed.
Well it was video. One must make the assumption it is him, however again since he's not personally known to me, I must take his word for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yB3n9fu-rM
> Well it was video.
One video and nothing since.
You're staking a lot on one sighting of a dude that hasn't surfaced since.
Again, assumptions. I'm not staking anything as I have no skin in the game other than retaining my rights and trying to keep big brother contained. It's not a one man job, it should be EVERY persons job.