This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Visualizing When Higher Education Doesn't Pay Back

Tyler Durden's picture


College is usually a good investment, but that is not the case for every single school in America. As the following infographic shows, you may want to rethink your decision before handing over that big tution check.


When Higher Education Doesn't Pay Back
Image compliments of Cheap Online Degrees


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:00 | 3719648 bjfish
bjfish's picture

And you expect today's kids to apply rationality when making decisions ... WTF

Just go to school, vote for Oblamer, and everything will be cool ... "it's what plants like".

P.S. I'm a college prof.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:03 | 3719686 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

I don't understand.  I mean, I learned that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves, Sydney is the capital of Austria, and that the USA is supporting the al-Queda rebels in Syria.  It's all true, right?  RIGHT?!

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:18 | 3719729 Bear
Bear's picture

No ... a Constitutional amendment freed the slaves (Lincoln got shot in the head) ... Sydney is just a seaport in Austria (near Klagenfurt) ... and we don't know who the f**k we support in Syria (or Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Nigeria, UAE, Qatar, Lebanon, and Afghanistan)

Ask for a refund 

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:25 | 3719748 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"College is usually a good investment"


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH... <stopped reading there ~ & the rest was fucking pictures>


Visualizing When Higher Education Doesn't Pay Back

<ladies & gentlemen ~ I present you Edward Snowden>

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:39 | 3719776 max2205
max2205's picture

100 million people on welfare can't be wrong

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:03 | 3719839 prains
prains's picture

The Art Institute of Pittsburgh has got to be an oxymoron

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:18 | 3720132 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I've worked in a variety of offices where people are predominantly 25 - 35, median salary I'd guess ~70k - ~100k, specialization going into multiples of that. Almost everyone I've come across has at minimum a college degree (outside of management). Occasionally there's someone who's a genius and didn't go that route, but otherwise a basic education is the minimum. 

Everyone on here laughing at college - I'd be curious where all these great jobs are that don't require a degree, other than some Godforsaken resource extraction project. 

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:40 | 3720177 prains
prains's picture

I'm not laughing at college, spent the best nine years of my life in college, didn't go broke doing it, worked in a steel mill summers to pay for it. Liked it so much I stayed for two degrees, but not for the pay. That's the difference University is not about the pay, it's about the experience and the gift of being taught how to think critically. Now the proviso being mine was not an american experience and my first year of college tuition was $800. The best advice I ever got from a prof was; " don't let them niggerize you" best advice you could give anyone.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 06:34 | 3720770 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

 The best advice I ever got from a prof was; " don't let them niggerize you"

after 9 years of paychecks from you, you became the "prof's ngger".   He then took a sabbatical to study female aboriginal sexual habits in australia.  From there he went to Thailand to study " the sexual tendencies of young men and older men".  Hope he thanked you.

9 fucking years? really? and you don't feel like a ngger?  a fucking professional student telling me the world is great, wonderful!


Thu, 07/04/2013 - 07:00 | 3720785 RKDS
RKDS's picture

I agree.  Most of these people probably started working in the 1970s.  Try getting your foot in the door today without a college degree.  In IT, they've outsourced so much of the entry level work that it's difficult enough getting over the no-experience hurdle.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 08:09 | 3720863 spine001
spine001's picture

Education is one of the very few things that you invest in safely , without the risk of it being taken from you by expropiation oir devaluation. For what is coming it will be what will save you. He who can provide value to his fellows will be provided value back. He who can't won't. Imagine a financier in this new environment or an in vestment banker? Now imagine a Doctor or a nurse or an expert in Agronomy? Who would be provided value back?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:47 | 3720194 InvalidID
InvalidID's picture


 I know quite a few debt collectors collecting on defaulted student loans that don't have a degree. In fact a few have GEDs. They're making pretty good money right now...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 23:21 | 3720461 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Agree. Two of the wealthiest men in my neighborhood are both high school drop out; one is a tow truck operator and has the city contract for towing with his fleet of ~25 tow trucks...the other intstalls sprinkler systems, mainly commerical stuff but also has nabbed most of the local Gubmint contracts.


Not for everyone, but there are other [very good] choices besides being in school for 86 years [and in debt $100k] to be a Brain Surgeon.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 23:32 | 3720483 prains
prains's picture

your theory only works if you're the One dude who owns the joint and gets to tell the rest of the bitchez to gets to work. For the other 99 who have to suck on actually hanging the sprinkler pipe day in and day out, being uneducated and trapped IS NOT the answer. Try hanging the pipe for a living first before you hypotho-size, you'll have some pretty skinny kids.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:18 | 3720244 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

IT Data / Programming / Admin droid here.  Making > 6 figures for the past decade with no degree.  Just skills and the ability to learn on the fly while solving problems.  College != success.  Hard work, curiosity and communications skills will take  you far.  Maybe you learned that in college, maybe you picked it up before or after.


Thu, 07/04/2013 - 08:19 | 3720875 spine001
spine001's picture

Doesn't matter how you learn, the key is to learn things that help you provide value to others. In mho having been in both ends of the teaching equation, Thus knowing that learning enough to teach a good new subject in College took me 1week  per hour of class, I find most efficient to learn from good masters rather than goin at it alone and without guidance, again in mho in this way the learning is much faster and a lot deeper. I am back in College now and very happy for it. Please also remember that even now not all is measured in terms of fiat money.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 22:03 | 3720354 chubbyjjfong
chubbyjjfong's picture

Speaking of oxymoroms..  "You gotta lose to know how to win" does not apply anymore.  You just "lose".

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:38 | 3721617 EINSILVERGUY

Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Southern states that were in rebellion. He didn't free those in the 4 slave states that hadn't seceded. They weren't freed until the 13th amendment and slavery is still a possible punishment for crime

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:19 | 3719737 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Butt mie college advizer sent me a e-male telling me my Aromatherapy Degree wood pay off easilee my $78,000 laon...inn know time!

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:50 | 3719802 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

I should have gottten a degree in Breast Examination!! Could have changed my name to Dr. Feelgood!! Might not pay off my loans but that would be OK

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:10 | 3719866 YC2
YC2's picture

Since when is ROI a dollar figure and not a percentage? Should I have gone to FMU?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:30 | 3719760 Stuart
Stuart's picture

Don't Forget about the Germans who attacked Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th, 1942.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:19 | 3720133 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

The capital of Australia is Canberra.


Thu, 07/04/2013 - 05:03 | 3720720 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Chilly Canberra please.

You'd have thought with all the hot air our Politicians generate Canberra would be permanently sub-tropical (and the brightest IR target in the Southern Hemisphere).

Obviously the "Centre of the Australian Political Universe" just needs to work harder . . . . . . . .

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:37 | 3719768 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Imma feeenix!

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:45 | 3719789 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The 'Fightin' Phonecians'...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:19 | 3719913 puckles
puckles's picture

to bjfish:

Then I'm sure all of your kids, assuming you have some, have used the tuition exchange system.  75% of those eligible in our family have done so, despite our atavistic desires to see our kids go to the ivies/7 sisters, as we did.  We didn't even discuss ivies, etc. with kid #4, who was academically the strongest after kid #1, who was a standout. (Note: this is a blended family,  2+2 kids; the younger 2 were raised in DC burbs, the older 2 in NYC burbs) It was tuition exchange all the way. And they agreed, except for #3, who is now on food stamps, etc., but no debt; also virtually no employability, mainly due to attitude. She's quite the princess. It's always her way or the highway. So she gets part-time "gigs." This means she is eligible for free medical care as well.  Is this a great country, or what?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:44 | 3720012 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I went back to grad school not too long ago. These kids are intelligent, but complete idiots.

Nearly every single one of them.

BJ is correct. They 100% voted for Obama. They are truly clueless about what happens when the gov takes over anything, and what it does to costs. Even though they are being gouged because of gov backed student loans via incessant and massive tuition hikes.

Do not waste your time with any of them. Talk to your dog.  It will have more effect.  The faster they feel the pain of their grandiose visions, hopes n' changes, dreams, etc......the faster they will pull their heads out of their collective asses.

Whether they want to (highly unlikely) or not.

Reality is a bitch.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 08:55 | 3720790 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Can't see how they voted for Obama over an idea-less draft-dodging industry-gutting robot who likes to fire people and _they're_ the idiots?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 17:53 | 3719652 One And Only
One And Only's picture

College is no longer about education and I don't care what anyone says about it. It's a business and it's a business in bed with the government.

Look how much some of these fucking college sports coaches make per year.

This is how the scheme works: Government provides loans to anyone depsite some having the IQ of a gerbil. Students take money and spend at college. The more students the more shit faculty etc etc get. School now has teachers that promote big government liberalism onto malleable minds. The bigger the scam gets the richer the teachers get and the more pion voters are churned out for the dictaorial regime.

Stalin had some quote about brainwashing people at a young age and having their allegiance for the rest of their lives. This is the same concept of a different shade.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:16 | 3719726 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I got a pal < law enforcement > who got a Ph.d in public safety sciences from some hairball college for 16 grand and didn't have to do no book larnin or nuthin.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:21 | 3719745 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

Not much "thinking" in LE, I guess as long as you can fog a mirror, you're hired... hahahahaha

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:29 | 3719968 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

It depends on which college you go to

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:06 | 3720094 Renfield
Renfield's picture

<<It's a business and it's a business in bed with the government>>

That being so, I wonder if we'll soon start seeing "Return On Investment" calculations, like the one posted above, published regularly comparing university grad employment stats?

I like this measure, but I think a lot of colleges would oppose its publication, either to prevent embarrassing truth being known or to discourage people from thinking this way in the first place. There's a reason economics has disappeared from most public schools in many 'western' countries.

I can't think of a better measure for anyone considering college, than ROI.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 17:56 | 3719668 The Invisible Foot
The Invisible Foot's picture

You'd be surprised at how many people say "You're not going to college?!!"-same people who think voting matters

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:11 | 3719712 P.T.Bull
P.T.Bull's picture

Just feel shame all the way to the bank, to modify a saying... ;)

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:31 | 3719762 Stuart
Stuart's picture

Grade 10 was the best 4 years of my life!  just sayin'......

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:03 | 3719689 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

I agree. Public schools lack, seriously. Public school from K-12 should focus on BUSINESS and an understanding of finance. Perhaps, every student in grade K gets 100 chits, they use these through your entire 12 years, with different mock programs designed to use said chits for mock businesses, mock investments, whatever - purpose is to see your chits grow, and a basic understanding of MONEY and ECONOMICS which runs the fucking planet and most households (unless you get free gibbme dat shit). At the end of the 12 years I can guarantee you that every student would have a basic understanding of MONEY and finance. Shit, you could reward students with scholarships based off of this - real, tangible, concrete "works" and not bullshit sports, or other inane educational experiences that do not translate to the real world...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:10 | 3719710 P.T.Bull
P.T.Bull's picture

The problem I have with public american education, and all colleges, is the teach followership. They teach the green religion, submission to the all powerful state, and demonize non-statist views, as well as demonizing christians and republicans (despite their statist and liberal views). Look how passivated our entire population is--the re-election of obamugabe, in the face of his manifest failures, told me that america is past a tipping point where the active and dynmac are outnumbered by the dependent, the passive, the freedom-adverse voters.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:15 | 3719724 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

Never had that issue when pursuing my engineering/mathematical degrees. Sounds like a lib arts type indoctrination...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:50 | 3719809 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"Perhaps, every student in grade K gets 100 chits, they use these through your entire 12 years, with different mock programs designed to use said chits for mock businesses, mock investments, whatever"...


They already tried that... fonestar 'blew' all of his on BITCOINS, & parlayed his success into becoming a cult favorite & 'Legend in his own Mind' favorite on the 'Cheers with a Bloomberg Terminal' blog...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:04 | 3720228 prains
prains's picture


it's not even a fair fight anymore

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:15 | 3719828 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

School is BS... period. Especially in the Internet age where information is practically free.

Why did you need to pay for an engineering/mathematical degree when all that information is freely available in libraries and on the Internet?

If STEM degree holders are so smart why don't they build businesses using their talents instead of grinding out a BS, MS, or PhD to work for Uncle Scam or one of his subsidized whores?

School is just a key to open establishment doors. The problem is Uncle Scam has been handing keys out like candy to buy allegiance, and now there's not enough establishment doors.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:16 | 3719903 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

I didn't pay for my Engineering Degree, my employer did

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:28 | 3719960 RebelDevil
RebelDevil's picture

And those were the days of good will man!

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:27 | 3720148 Bobportlandor
Bobportlandor's picture

Farmers,  planters, and shopkeepers in the American colonies found it very difficult to hire free workers, primarily because it was so easy for potential workers to set up their own farms.

Consequently, a common solution was to transport a young worker from England or Germany, who would work for several years to pay off the debt of their travel costs. During the indenture period the servants were not paid wages, but were provided with food, accommodation, clothing and training. The indenture document specified how many years the servant would be required to work, after which they would be free. Terms of indenture ranged from one to seven years with typical terms of four or five years.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:26 | 3719954 RebelDevil
RebelDevil's picture

Totally agree man! but I have to add this.
Sometimes, an intellectual will be consciouslly aware that it will take him either a long ass time to earn start up capital he needs for a new business idea, or that he is otherwise a slave to the demands of a venture capitalist if he took their money.

It's much easier to study and work for the government and big corporations like GE and Lockheed Martin (popular employers for STEM degrees) than it is to build a business from scratch, though I regard the latter as more rewarding. :)

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:41 | 3720295 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Many STEM majors do start businesses. Nearly every tech or biotech company was founded by STEM majors or people who studied STEM.

Not every STEM degree holder can start a business. Being smart doesn't mean you have leadership abilities or have the desire take the risk.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 22:05 | 3720353 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"Being smart doesn't mean you have leadership abilities or have the desire take the risk."

Risk... is that the shit those STEM degree holders working in finance calculated so well leading up to 2008?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 08:02 | 3720854 PT
PT's picture

Hmmmm, risk ...
"The problem is that these young people are no longer willing to take any risks" ...
"Young people need to learn how to manage risk" ...

How do you manage risk?   By finding a sucker who will offload all of your mistakes?
What is risk?  Isn't that where you bite off more than you can chew?
Oh, but you just need to manage your risk ...

Yeah, right.

Don't worry, as soon as I assemble an adequate portion of capital and knowledge, I'll start my own business.
Hey, it took me half my life to get this far.  Don't expect progress to be too quick ...

I'll probably be beaten by someone who is willing to take on more risk ...


Thu, 07/04/2013 - 08:23 | 3720879 PT
PT's picture

dwdollar, did you ever get yourself a STEM education just from looking on the internet?  Some things are much better explained by a real, live teacher.  Some subjects are heavy going, and I can't imagine learning them without a teacher.  Yeah, you could get lucky and find the right book, maybe.  Or you could spend 6 months learning something that someone could have told you in five minutes.  (Happened to me several times.)

I would argue that if you can find all your answers on the internet then you aren't asking hard enough questions.  I am surprised at the things that I can not learn on the internet.  A simple programming question yielded six "leads", four of them in foreign languages.  The two english ones had no answer to the question I had at the time.  So much for "just fucking google it".

If you want a cheap degree, I'd try getting an Indian graduate to teach you.  Everyone else is outsourcing their labour ...
... maybe next time you get an unwanted phone call from a foreign call centre ... "No, I don't want a time-share holiday home, but do you know anything about Chebyshev polynomials?" ...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:29 | 3719757 nowhereman
nowhereman's picture

Sounnds like you really believe in the system.  That's right get them rug rats ready for the rat race. Teach 'em some "economics" you know, how to cheat and steal and get  away with it.  Yeah, that's the ticket.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:46 | 3719795 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

As opposed to living in some utopian society, picking fruits and vegies, and wearing loin cloths?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:10 | 3719857 nowhereman
nowhereman's picture

As opposed to making children learn to read and write English, as apposed to learning Algebra and Geometry, shit you can'r even make it  as a carpenter without those. As apposed to not failing if you don't learn what's required. As apposed to letting Sociologists tell you that failing little Johnny will ruin his self esteem. As apposed to teaching critical thinking, heaven  forbid we require the little 'uns to think for themselves.

Nah, you'd rather they immerse themselves in the psuedo-sciences like economics.  How's the invisible hand working out for you?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:10 | 3719865 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

Chits, come on man. Quit thinking like a slave. I want my kids to be holding real $100 bills, gold coins, and dealing with the pointy end of tool, building things, pointed at the juiciest opportunities, subsidized. running businesses in the "free market". All the services supplied to the school would be open for bidding by the students. They can take my eights years of calculus, and shove it up where the sun don't shine. Quants be damned. Everyday, school and business and the community are merged, engaged in trade. I guess what I'm looking for doesn't a exist, a true free trade zone to teach our children the nature of business and commerce. The closest I can think of is fund raising for school events, but the adults make sure the kids never touch the fucking hundreds.

The educational system is designed to produce employEES not employers. It's part of the plantation, and none of that involves creating a yearly crop of young idealists, with ideas germinated and partially executed while students.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:00 | 3720073 puckles
puckles's picture

While I grant you that there is zero interest in public education in finance and business at this level these days (as distinct from as few years ago as the 1960s, when there were still "business" tracks in public schools in many districts, and most kids could at least get a smattering of bookkeeping and accounting, as well as "business English", etc.), the situation in public schools thse days is so dire now that the main emphasis MUST be put on teaching reading via the phonics method from the get go, and then English grammar and spelling, as well as rote memorization of basic addition and the times tables. Yes, this means doing it from memory, in your head, and being tested on it, typically in a timed situation.

I know that for many of you this sounds utterly radical, but it was the normal foundation of literacy in this country as well as in the rest of the Western world and Japan until very recently.  It still is the foundation of literacy in most countries to this day, which is why we have fallen so far. Emphasizing self esteem above all else has gotten us to this point.  Getting back to competition, which is actually healthy, will begin to bring us back to parity.

We cannot begin to teach anything else before we make these our absolute priorities.  We have now failed several generations of children because of incessant experimentation; we have made failures even of normal kids, with normal abilities, who could not follow the experimental curricula designed to enhance those who had been "left behind."  They went to sleep, because they were bored to death, or confused to death.  

As to the benefit of that curricula, I daresay we saw a fair amount of that on live TV during the Zimmerman trial's featuring of the star prosecution witness, who is allegedly still a High School senior at age 19.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:13 | 3720119 Promethus
Promethus's picture

K-12 should focus on the three R's.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:46 | 3720310 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

How about teaching basic math, reading comprehension, and writing first?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:46 | 3720312 Andre
Andre's picture

Yes, they lack.

  • History ("And where have we seen THAT before?")
  • Science (handy for figuring out bullshit)
  • Math (also handy for figuring out bullshit)
  • old-fashioned "Home Ec" (budgeting, cooking taking care of yourself)
  • Civics (What does the Constitution say - and WHY)
  • Reading and Writing (I can't forget the comment here about the "non-reading graduate" who could not fill out a job application)

This is the kind of stuff the older generation had. They were not perfect, but they did a lot more with a lot less than we have.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:05 | 3719691 P.T.Bull
P.T.Bull's picture

I don't accept the assertion that it is a good value more than half the time--only for engineering/technology majors. Aside from the inestimable benefit of being feminized and indoctrinated in marxian thought, what are the financial benefits? Getting a job at a help desk? Wait tables? Other jobs that don't require a degree, but can be done by a degree holder.

 I submit that most college income surveys are based on the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy anyway. Kids from middle class families have in the past been better workers, on the average, than kids from families that didn't send their kids to college. So they make more--nothing to do with their worthless liberal arts degrees. And I suspect more recent surveys show the college advantage barely exists anymore for lib arts majors.

OTOH, college grads typically owe more money than the cost of a small house or large car, so they are at a disadvantage financially compared to non-college types.

Again I will state my strong belief that vocational education is a great option, despite its being frowned upon by liberals due to lesser political indoctrination. Having had both, I value the vocational more.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:07 | 3719702 Praetorian Guard
Praetorian Guard's picture

Getting a blue AND a white collar education is the best of both worlds. Thank god I grew up in a blue collar home, learned several trades, and proceeded to get an advanced engineering degree... hell most kids today could not fix a car or a simple leaky faucet to save their life... sad and pathetic...

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:44 | 3719786 Meatballs
Meatballs's picture

True, but it does provide opportunity for people like me who can fix most everything.  Proud and happy to be a Managed Care executive corporate drop out. I can actually look myself in the mirror! No college- didn't need it, have talent.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:09 | 3719860 pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

Pretty Much.

I've got a certificate of Automotive Proficiency from Votec in high school, worked a cars for a brief stint, decided college would be worth a shot.

Started in finance, graduated with a blue collar degree as a RN.

I wish now after years of not using my degree that I'd have gone the HVAC route, maybe plumbing.  There are so many ways out there to make what I consider big money.  Out of all the people I know personally who make a lot of money few have degrees, and none really use them.  It is almost like winning a lottery in corporate america to get a seven figure job, but with determination it is very possible to self employed in a trade.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:40 | 3720176 puckles
puckles's picture

When I grew up (I am a boomer), it was unheard of for any kid who was male to be ignorant of basic electrical/plumbing/carpentry/car problems and routine maintenance.  I am female, and I still had to learn a few things; my Grandfather made sure of that. Our family was very far from blue collar.  But we simply saw no need to spend money on things we could easily fix ourselves.  That may have been partially a combined Depression/Knickerbocker attitude, but I see it equally in my husband, who was raised in New Haven, in a family of similar circumstances.  I even saw it in my ex, who was French.

Our kids are careful with money.  My son learned advanced carpentry, plumbing, electrical, and electronics as a sideline while he was still in college (he basically apprenticed himself to a crew), and as a result, began flipping houses very early, and made a fair amount doing that, most of which he subsequently lost when Mr. Bernanke pulled the plug. He is currently rehabbing his dream house, mainly by himself, but with a little outside help.

His sister, who is not as skilled in the construction trades, nevertheless knows how to deal with her own small house very well, and almost never needs to call in a contractor, except for major fixes, such as roofing.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:06 | 3719697 involuntarilybirthed
involuntarilybirthed's picture

Like oil and water, capitalism and "We" the people will not mix unless stirred.  Not with a spoon of socialism but it's time for something to change as everything is capitalism for the "me" and the working class "we" are becoming bystanders.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:13 | 3719719 bjfish
bjfish's picture

Try not to cionfuse cronyism and corruptocracy with capitalism.

Here's the real oil & water:  Willful Ignorance and Democracy.

"We" are only bystanders if we choose to be.

I junked you.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:34 | 3720165 involuntarilybirthed
involuntarilybirthed's picture

To each his opinion.  No, I didn't junk you because I don't care. 

Are you sure that "On a long enought timeline...." your cionfuse cronyism and corruptocracy becomes part and parcel to capitalism  (or the reverse)?  Seems reality shows that it is?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:09 | 3719709 redux2redux
redux2redux's picture

How long until we bail out all those student loans?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:10 | 3719711 Bear
Bear's picture

Education is like any other 'investment' you make ... find the value first, study the outcomes, calculate the ROI and then join that frat

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:13 | 3719721 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

do you want to supersize that?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:41 | 3719779 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Would you like another EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES????

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:11 | 3719869 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Give um a bud light and tell him to go on vacation.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:18 | 3719732 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

Get ushered into an ivy league and tapped by bone and skulls, priceless.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:29 | 3719756 azengrcat
azengrcat's picture

Ivy leagues are running this contry and I feel like I am getting boned and skulfd eryday

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:35 | 3719766 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

Bush and Kerry both Skull & Bones

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:07 | 3719844 Boozer
Boozer's picture

Those stone fortresses dot the New Haven landscape.  Pass several often yet have

never seen a single soul enter or leave via the front doors in 40+ years.  Skull and Bones faces

a cemetery and i've wondered if they enter through a tunnel for their cheesepope voodoo rituals.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:27 | 3719754 Yellowhoard
Yellowhoard's picture

Students should have to borrow from banks just like small businesses.

They should have to provide a prospectus that outlines how they are going to achieve their degree and what they expect to earn thereafter.

"I'm sorry miss but we cannot loan you $120,000 for a degree in Womens Studies. There is no way in hell that you will ever earn enough to repay us."

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:38 | 3719770 Bear
Bear's picture

Woman Studies ... teaches how to have babies, stay home, take care of hubby ... I think 120k is well worth it if you can find a real graduate that learned her lessons

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 22:48 | 3720410 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Those skills are what we used to call "home ec". 

Women work now, but very few can cook, take care of a home, or raise kids.  So the family eats fast/junk food and has ill health, the house is a mess, and the kids are raised by a minimum wage person who doesn't care about them.  Guess that's progress.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 23:45 | 3720505 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

After having this degree your target should be to find a rich husband.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:28 | 3719755 TheFulishBastid
TheFulishBastid's picture

Can't believe U of Phoenix is not on this list.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:55 | 3719820 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

better lobby

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:39 | 3719771 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

no one ever includes the 4 years (or 6) of income that you could be making by skipping partying   

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:50 | 3719811 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

No shit,



I smoked a beach house while going to night school.......

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:03 | 3719840 Rainman
Rainman's picture

ffft... a beer shot thru nose.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:21 | 3719929 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

It did take 13 years.....

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:19 | 3719808 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

Shit worked for me. I just retired at age 48, of course an Engineering degree is far more valuable than most.



Hmmmmm. seems like someone is Jealous!

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:59 | 3720058 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

After the world wars economies were booming in north america and europe. Because lots of men died. It was a completely different situation. Nowadays there are too many men (and women who want a career and no kids) and not enough jobs for all of them, especialy considering our elites opened borders and imported millions of third worlders to do the jobs single moms didnt want their sons to do.


All of this will end in blood as usual.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 18:53 | 3719818 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Elite colleges + Gubmint + Bankers = National Socialist Party of Amerika. Get used to it workers. Heads down.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:01 | 3719831 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

University of Life - School of Hard Knocks at Third Rock

Graduate when you die.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:20 | 3719925 StarTedStackin'
StarTedStackin&#039;'s picture

I have that degree just does not pay as well as having a number after your name.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:23 | 3719937 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Well I"m going for the girls and creative writing at either UCLA or Santa Barbara so that should be ok.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:29 | 3719966 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

You can't look at means and averages if your are trying to figure out if college a good "investment".  It's a strongly non-linear cost/benefit relationship.  If you go to school and get a degree in math, engineering, CS, or a hard science - it's going to pay off well.  If you get a degree in ethnic studies or 19th century French poetry (liberal arts generally), then no so much.  Yet, our centrally planned college loan system is designed to "invest" our tax dollars more in niche liberal arts than hard sciences.  It also provides guaranteed financing to the colleges, insulating them from the market forces that would otherwise punish them for turning out lousy products - i.e. that 19th century French poetry graduate.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:59 | 3720067 Promethus
Promethus's picture

The government is agnostic – it doesn’t care what degree you get. The reason so many kids get a BS liberal arts BA is because they can’t cut the math for a BS in the hard sciences. If a Petroleum Engineering degree required the same smarts as a cultural or feminist study degree we would see engineers working at McDonalds or poll dancers at our favorite clubs.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 22:54 | 3720420 mkkby
mkkby's picture

"You can't look at means and averages if your are trying to figure out if college a good "investment"."

Didn't read past this sentence.  Flunking 2nd grade english disqualifies any opinion.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:51 | 3720040 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

The west is flooded by unskilled immigrants imported by cynical elites who want to lower salaries and crush the middle and lower social classes, and by overskilled youths whose diplomas are useless. Basically, there are too many people wether they re unskilled or overqualified , and not enough jobs.  How many times does it have to be said; how do you think it will end? just like it always ended when there were too many people and not enough jobs/ressources; by natural selection ie. WARS. Is there a need to mention the fact that scientific and technological progresses replace men by machines which means we re actually destroying jobs?


The next steps are obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of history and anthropology; a major economic collapse worlwide, billions of poor people starving, and...elites leading them against each others -in order to serve their own interest- in bullshit wars for bullshits reasons.


A young man nowadays is at war against his elders, third world immigrants and his peers, to get a 9bucks an hour job.



Wed, 07/03/2013 - 23:05 | 3720437 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

the bad elites need to be exterminated

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:50 | 3720043 Promethus
Promethus's picture

$112,100 for Florida Memorial University?

I had to Google Florida Memorial University because I’ve never heard of it. Holy cow, it’s in Miami where I lived for ten years.  I pushed through the pop up ads for student loans and found it’s a Black college located in Dade County the world capitol of Latin American corruption.  Black school in Dade County with Government loans -  I would expect a better ROI from a community college located on top of the ruins of the Fukushima atomic power plant.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:58 | 3720063 suicidalpsychologist
suicidalpsychologist's picture

After the economic collapse, billions of deaths, we will rethink a new world from scratch. Births will be controlled and we will plan who will do what before they re even born.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:53 | 3720331 Andre
Andre's picture

Was there a /sarc tag, or were you channeling Obama?

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 19:58 | 3720064 pointer
pointer's picture

I would probably shy away from hiring a college grad as a sole proprietor - if I ever needed an employee.  It would depend on what they want for a wage.

Colleges are just business - they advertise on the radio and sell paper (aka degrees).  The curriculum to get the degree is more than likely manufactured by the same corporations.  They tell you how to write, teach you their history and in return you get a piece of paper to get hired at some corporate cubicle farm.

The degree shows that you were able to follow directions and complete the tasks assigned to you on time (for the most part)

Going to a technical school and learning a niche trade is where I would go if I were to ever go to college.  Getting a Bachelor's degree in "marketing" is money down the toilet because more than likely the person doesn't have any ambition anyways.

Just another hamster looking for a wheel.  Some people are just so brain-dead and lazy with no ambition they think they can get an "education" then be plopped into a pre-defined mold with a cozy salary.  This is modern day slavery...including debt slavery.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:04 | 3720085 Promethus
Promethus's picture

"The degree shows that you were able to follow directions and complete the tasks assigned to you on time (for the most part)"

Sorry, today not even that.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 20:59 | 3720221 gunbunny
gunbunny's picture

Something makes me think they won't get bailed out- they will become indentured to the state and have to work it off doing "whatever" in the middle of Detroit or Atlanta.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 21:20 | 3720254 Z-Tranche
Z-Tranche's picture

If I could go back and do it all over again I probably would've learned a skilled trade and passed on my business degree.


Wed, 07/03/2013 - 22:18 | 3720373 Greshams Law
Greshams Law's picture

San Antonio has some of the most educated strippers I've ever met.

Thanks, ITT Tech!

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 23:02 | 3720429 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

If strippers and whores could learn more personal etiquette, (and stay away from drugs and excesive tatoos) they could make a lot more money. Most are scam artists, drug addicts and lesbians. They are not very good at business. They have very poor social skills.

Wed, 07/03/2013 - 23:43 | 3720502 Moomah
Moomah's picture prepared this?! Well of course they did. And they suggest that Univ of Phoenix is a good option? Hahaha. One of the biggest degree mills in the country... VERY expensive and a farce. This infographic holds no water. What a crock ... 


Thu, 07/04/2013 - 10:13 | 3721076 Faust100F
Faust100F's picture

I think the measure of an education is not so much where you went to school, but where you scored when you took the licensing examination.  

I went to a small public college in Northern Michigan where those who flunked out of Michigan State and Michigan came to try to rebuild their grades so they could get back into those schools.

Upon graduation from that small college, I went to work for the #1 CPA firm in the world, graduated #2 in my class, and passed the CPA exam the first time I took it.  Fewer than 10% of all those taking the CPA exam in their first sitting.  So much for Harvard, Princeton

Later in life @45 I picked up a JD degree, never became a licensed lawyer, it was just a tool I wanted in my war chest.  You see . . . I never trusted lawyers, and never wanted to be part of a profession that relies upon theft to earn a living.

I think it is knowing what you want to be in life, and my goal was to avoid paying income taxes and investing those taxes into my own business instead of letting the government spend it on $100 hammers.   To get there I chose this path to achieve that goal.

What is my occupation - I am a Farmer in Iowa, and I do not rely upon others to take care of my business, and my records are totally private. 

Education is what you make of it, I do not place much credibility in where a degree is received, but I think one of the measurements of ones seriousness in reaching a goal, is determined by taking licensing examinations.  If you pass the licensing exam, then your education was worthwhile.  It was more worthwhile if it gets you to where you want to go in life.

To this day, I cannot name one person I graduated with from college, I never received a commencement or had a picture taken wearing a mortar board, all degrees were mailed to me.

Of course I attended college on the GI bill and it was during the Vietnam War, so I made few friends.  

To me a sheepskin got me to where I wanted to go and along the way I picked up the real education i.e. the farm crisis of the 80's where I lost 2600 acres that I owned, but it was a learning experience, the second time around, I did not make the mistakes that went with "leverage".  

A college education is what you make of it, life is to short to spend your life in a University to not get the tools you are there to get to help you on your road in life.   



Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!