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Kyle Bass Hunkers Down: "We Dramatically Reduce Portfolio Risk"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Kyle Bass goes to Japan and finds all as expected...

After traveling through Japan for the past couple of weeks and with their economic experiment at the forefront of the financial press, it is an appropriate time to give an update on Hayman’s current thoughts regarding the island nation. My travels took me from Kyoto, the cultural heart of Japan to Tokyo, Japan’s financial epicenter. I met with all kinds of thoughtful and wonderful people throughout my trip – from tea service with Zen priests in Kyoto to the metaphorical Zen priests of finance in Tokyo. The Japanese people are some of the most inviting, respectful, and thoughtful people with whom I have ever had the opportunity to spend time. There is no doubt that culturally and historically, Japan is one of the richest countries in the world.

 

Unfortunately, I had this overriding feeling of sorrow and empathy for most of the people with whom I met because my conclusions regarding their potential financial fate were reinforced on this trip. Most large and complex problems do not have a single cause, and there are countless decisions and circumstances that have led Japan to its current situation. While there is no formulaic determination for the solvency of a sovereign balance sheet (despite many attempts to develop one), the inescapability of economic gravity remains constant. Japan and its leadership face an unsolvable equation in my opinion. The structural problems in Japan have existed for years and were evident during our original analysis of the situation in late 2009, but it is fascinating to observe the progression of the decline over time and the recent broad acknowledgement of their plight.

And also learns something new, if not unexpected...

Despite the abundant quantitative data indicating the fragility of the financial system and the risks posed by further indebtedness, very few individuals in Tokyo have expressed a willingness to embrace the difficult choices required to resolve this looming crisis. During my trip to Kyoto, I was introduced to a Japanese phrase that encapsulated the strangely fatalistic viewpoint that many local Japanese market participants have toward the twin threats of debt and deflation. This concept explains a resignation to the unfolding of events and a willingness to submit to this unfortunate reality rather than to fight a seemingly inevitable or impossible challenge. It seems apposite to reprint it here as we watch the beginning of this endgame in the Japanese debt markets unfold:

 

“Shikata ga nai”

 

It cannot be helped.

But perhaps most interesting are Bass' thoughts on China:

The speed and depth of the Chinese policy response will help determine the severity and duration of this crisis. If the Chinese address the issue quickly and move decisively to rein in credit expansion and accept a period of much lower growth, they may be able to use the government and People’s Bank of China’s balance sheet to cushion the adjustment in the economy. If, however, they continue on the current path and allow this deterioration to reach its natural and logical limit, we will likely see a full?scale recession as well as a collapse in asset and real estate prices sometime next year.

 

China’s direct contribution to global growth is enormous, but perhaps equally as important is its role in generating growth in developed and emerging economies. A slowdown, whether significant or extreme, in the Chinese economy heralds very bad news for asset prices around the world. A growth crisis centered in Asia will further exacerbate the instability and volatility in Japan and have a devastating impact on second derivative marketplaces such as Australia, Brazil and developing markets in South East Asia. The combination of rich valuations and further threats to growth has led us to dramatically reduce risk in the portfolio and actively position ourselves to withstand the uncertainty and instability ahead.

In short, Bass is once again hunkering down.

Full Hayman Capital investor letter below, courtesy of Valuewalk:

 

 

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Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:20 | 3721561 Smuckers
Smuckers's picture

Aaaand I'll sit in this chair.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:23 | 3721574 tsx500
tsx500's picture

KB rocks !   Keepin' it real.    Thanx KB

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:27 | 3721582 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I kind of like it.  We have to hang the traitors.

Shikata ga nai.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:37 | 3721597 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

If THEY Put The Brakes on CHINA ...

What Will 1 Billlion Broke & Angry Chinee Workers Do ??????
I Doubt That The Powers Will wait And See...
EASY::: PRINT and PRINT Big Fiats, Aound The Whirld !!!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:50 | 3721655 HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

What will 1 billion...do?

 

Burn lots of foreign production plants to the ground...

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:59 | 3721670 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Locking up / kidnapping foreign born CEOs??? Hell, i think they will roast them alive for dinner!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:37 | 3721877 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Hey ZH, wake up-Europe was up 3% today and S&P furures are up 15!!!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:53 | 3722117 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

It's all Bullshit!!!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 20:00 | 3722385 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

Please don't tell me he's buying Treasuries.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:52 | 3722727 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Jim Chanos seconds Kyle's emotion:

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/05/chinas-actually-gotten-worse-jim-c...

In fact, he has stuck to his thesis for some time. Understandably the China implosion story could take a while to conclude but when it does Jim could be the next Nouriel...

And to top it off, liquidity is shrivelling and the system is super-levered...

Christine Hughes of OtterWood Capital Management: The System is as Levered as it Was in 2008

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/07/christine-hughes-of-otterwood-capi...

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:52 | 3722764 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

I think everyone should follow World Bank whistleblower Karen Hudes, still recognized as their chief counsel by the finance ministers of 188 countries (kahudes.net). Here is a paper she frequently cites called “The Network of Global Control” which provides a formal mathematical demonstration that a small group of a few hundred people are a supra-national entity that controls the world economy and has captured the political processes of the transatlantic nations

S. Vitali, J.B. Glattfelder, and S. Battiston: The network of global corporate control

Table S1: Top 50 control-holders. Shareholders are ranked by network control (according to the threshold model, TM).

Rank Economic actor name
1 BARCLAYS PLC
2 CAPITAL GROUP COMPANIES INC, THE
3 FMR CORP
4 AXA
5 STATE STREET CORPORATION
6 JPMORGAN CHASE & CO.
7 LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP PLC
8 VANGUARD GROUP, INC., THE
9 UBS AG
10 MERRILL LYNCH & CO., INC.
11 WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT CO. L.L.P.
12 DEUTSCHE BANK AG
13 FRANKLIN RESOURCES, INC.
14 CREDIT SUISSE GROUP
15 WALTON ENTERPRISES LLC
16 BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON CORP.
17 NATIXIS
18 GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP, INC., THE
19 T. ROWE PRICE GROUP, INC.
20 LEGG MASON, INC.
21 MORGAN STANLEY
22 MITSUBISHI UFJ FINANCIAL GROUP, INC.
23 NORTHERN TRUST CORPORATION
24 SOCIÉTÉ GÉNÉRALE
25 BANK OF AMERICA CORPORATION
26 LLOYDS TSB GROUP PLC
27 INVESCO PLC
28 ALLIANZ SE
29 TIAA
30 OLD MUTUAL PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY
31 AVIVA PLC
32 SCHRODERS PLC
33 DODGE & COX
34 LEHMAN BROTHERS HOLDINGS, INC.
35 SUN LIFE FINANCIAL, INC.
36 STANDARD LIFE PLC
37 CNCE
38 NOMURA HOLDINGS, INC.
39 THE DEPOSITORY TRUST COMPANY
40 MASSACHUSETTS MUTUAL LIFE INSUR.
41 ING GROEP N.V.
42 BRANDES INVESTMENT PARTNERS, L.P.
43 UNICREDITO ITALIANO SPA
44 DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION OF JP
45 VERENIGING AEGON
46 BNP PARIBAS
47 AFFILIATED MANAGERS GROUP, INC.
48 RESONA HOLDINGS, INC.
49 CAPITAL GROUP INTERNATIONAL, INC.
50 CHINA PETROCHEMICAL GROUP CO.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1107/1107.5728v2.pdf

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 00:37 | 3722808 bilbert
bilbert's picture

What the fuck??

Goldman Sachs a paltry #18 on the list??

If Goldman is doing God's work - who's doing Barclays work??

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 03:34 | 3722879 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Think it through...  toss out assumptions...  toss out inferences...

You can get it... 

Goldman and Barclays are OWNED AND CONTROLLED by the same Big Finance Cartel.

They are, in essence, front corporation subdivisions of the very same international banking cartel.

If you collected rent on the world's money supply, would you use your proceeds to buy control of Coke and compete with Pepsi, buy control of Pepsi and compete with Coke or actuary out the minimum amount of money it would take to buy control of both and run them as subdivisions, all the while selling the gullible public on choice and competition?

Whenever I ask that question, I always get the same answer.  Every time.

Does that little key to the puzzle improve your optics?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 18:03 | 3722133 thestarl
thestarl's picture

So does'nt change the big picture situation.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:49 | 3721999 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

"Burn lots of foreign production plants to the ground..."

Great! Perhaps that will bring the jobs & production plants back home.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 01:24 | 3722837 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

What - Mexicans building Android phones in Duluth?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:37 | 3721709 CPL
CPL's picture

They did it in the 90's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China

I heard numbers like 65 million - 140 million people laid off when it was happening.  Not sure of the real number, probably closer to 300 million considering the place was fully blown state run (like it isn't now, lol).  unlike last time the Chinese people didn't borrow any money and made due.  This time though there are lots of bank loans floating around out there.  Not just internally, I believe the IMF has billions on their sheets as well.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:30 | 3721590 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

While KB has a reputation for "telling it like it is", remember he is always selling his book!

I will say he is one of the few often quoted fund managers who puts his money where his mouth is...

DaddyO

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:41 | 3721623 prains
prains's picture

except the entry to his book is prohibitive to guys like you and me so he's not really selling

OT

here's a great graphic on our real lack of choice and pretty much sums up the overarching corporate control_tyranny we live under

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+AlirezaYavari/posts/fmauRTvHb27?cfem=1

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:48 | 3721648 tsx500
tsx500's picture

great link, thanx !

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:08 | 3722017 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

I like this choice better ...

Ag or Au?

 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 18:40 | 3722186 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

"Talking your book"

Sprott too, ZH too, Reggie too, me too...

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:00 | 3721677 Not My Real Name
Not My Real Name's picture

Let's get one thing clear: "tyranny" is the sole domain of government. Not corporations.

And it will remain that way until the day finally comes when companies like Nestle, Exxon or any other conglomerate have thepower to take away my freedom at the point of a gun.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:33 | 3721735 prains
prains's picture

it's nice you still distinguish the two as separate entities, for me 1980 was the start of USUK going full retard corpro and out in the open with a public doctrine, although this was going on behind the scenes for a century Raygun rolled it out like he was one of the Kool Kids

Tyranny is the drink and you will drink it regardless of whose hat you want to put it on, personally I'm out on anymore 'ism' parties

 

Don't think for a second all those wonderful boys and girls dead in some ditch in Iraq (on both sides) didn't lose their freedom at gunpoint that wasn't entirely sponsored by a corporate entity, so I don't really get your point

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:45 | 3721781 blabam
blabam's picture

Without the The State it wouldn't have been possible. Try fighting a war without taxing power/ deficits/ Benny bucks.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:57 | 3721804 prains
prains's picture

Yes but behind the state machine is the corporate oligarch initiating the policy to start, execute and profit from illegal wars. The state is just in charge of making illegal action "legal". How is it you don't think entities like Carlyle Group aren't initaiting the idea of Iraq. The elephants and donkeys are just the frontmen to their policy choices.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:27 | 3721852 blabam
blabam's picture

Without The State the Carlyle Group wouldn't even exist.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:07 | 3721921 prains
prains's picture

you're talking ancient history, I'm sure Haliburton started out as one guy down at the incororation office too. Now however, Carlyle Group is a beacon of regulatory capture and crony capitalism,TODAY, this minute, right now. How else to capture a state, you own those who work in it. Don't let the door hit you in the ass as you revolve out of state policy making into corporate policy and back again. This is all simple well documented stuff, none of which I discovered on my own, you've got some catching up to do.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:27 | 3722723 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You have causation backwards.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:03 | 3721926 walküre
walküre's picture

You don't seem to get it. The "State" IS corporations like Carlyle Group. Your vote does not count. Execs at Carlyle Group or Exxon, PG have a say. But mostly the majority shareholders in the big corps are the ones calling the shots. Who are they? TBTF and their investors of course. Who are the investors at TBTF? A handful of indidviduals or families. Don't fucking kid yourself about who is calling the shots and who will always benefit no matter what direction the wind blows from.

Money begets more money and power begets more power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Behind all the corporate networks are people, real people. These are the oligarchs who some might call the shadow government. Politicians are ignorant puppets, wilfull helpers of the oligarchs.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:09 | 3721936 prains
prains's picture

+^^

Crony 101 thanks W

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:29 | 3721964 blabam
blabam's picture

The State is a creation by and for the elites. People have been oppressed for thousands of years by this institution without the help from corporations. The monopoly on violence IS the problem not corporations. 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:40 | 3721983 prains
prains's picture

I can't help you man the blue pill is all yours, good luck

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:58 | 3722014 blabam
blabam's picture

Great rebuttal.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:17 | 3722029 prains
prains's picture

dude we're arguing the same point just with different names, I say corporate you say state, it's the same thing. They are both the same so why take up space on the thread? Time to move on

 

edit: a good book for you to read is Ferguson's "A Predator Nation" read it then ask yourself how is it this is in print and in the most litigious nation in the world, a bunch of lawyers haven't gone batshit trying to suppress it. <<they can't>> Also read Stockman's "The Great Deformation", that'll be enough red pill for ya

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:20 | 3722715 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

I think it's critical that we distinguish between the 2 governments, one imposed by overlords, and one elected by the citizenry to protect them... by government, I'm referring to everything from the current system, to the election of the sheriff who protected the local community from the criminals. We chose certain roles / people to serve the people, but these people are often coopted by the overlords given their threat of force and financial bribery / blackmail.  It's not just a government against a corporation narrative. It's the government imposed by the overlords, the government coopted by the overlords and corporations, the corporations imposing their will on the globe, etc. Long story.

 

I disagree that the corporations need government to be oppressive and destructive... a part of the government was actually created to control the out of control corporations such as Standard Oil... unsuccessfully, sure, but many corporations were destroying the citizen before some form of government intervention occurred to protect the people, but now, the corporations have the government captive, so the regulations are actually working against the people.

 

So the argument seems to be, because there is a likelihood that a corporation will coopt a government, let's not have a government at all. Has it not occurred to anyone that it is the Oligarchs and the Corporations - the structural elements that are far in excess larger than the power of the citizen - that are the problem and that getting rid of these is the primary concern? We don't need to eliminate corporations per se, we just need to reorganize them so they have no capability to accumulate any political or real economic clout. The people will hold that power.

 

We are at the verge of a structural change, but so many people are focused on resolving past problems, not addressing the future. Reorganize the system, so it cannot be captured.  I've written far more about this in the past here... this is a recent post.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/475884#comment-3712381

 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:58 | 3722686 BigJim
BigJim's picture

You're seeing 'The State', we're seeing a bunch of predators, swapping hats with signs saying 'government', and 'corporate', so quickly the sheep can't read the writing.

The State is the fist of the Elite, who own the corporations, that lobby the politicians, who run the State, that regulates the corporations. and sign-off the legislation... written by lobbyists working for the Elites... who...

You get the picture?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 08:01 | 3723005 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Some in the LameStreamMedia claim he hasn't 'sold out by taking a Wall St job'. 

BS.  How much $$ is he making?  Who's paying him?   -- both above and below the table. 

Oh, and TaxCheat Timmy's mentor, Robert Rubin, is co-chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations.  Imagine that ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin 

====

Tim Geithner Now a "Distinguished Fellow" at CFR

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/02/06/council_on_foreign_relations_snags_geithner_treasury_secretary_to_cfr.html

 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:57 | 3721801 Not My Real Name
Not My Real Name's picture

Sorry, Haka, but this isn't a chicken and egg thing. We're suffering from fascism now, but it can't exist without a corrupt government to set the wheels in motion and pass the laws that enable it.

If you think the fascist policies wer're suffering with now started under Reagan, you might want to tell that to Dwight Eisenhower, who was warning against the military industrial complex two decades earlier.

You can argue red and blue are one in the same, but to say private corporations and government are equivalent is painting with too broad a brush.

From some of your previous comments, it seems to me that you lean toward the collectivist/government side of things, so I can see why you "really don't get my point." it also explains why you would want to try and lump private corporations in with government -- but it's wrong.

As for those dead boys and girls in some dead ditch, corporations don't order anyone to war. Your hyperbole notwithstanding.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:04 | 3721818 prains
prains's picture

Well lets agree to disagree, but behind every donkey and elephant is a Carlyle, Booz, Allen et al. corporate revolving door crony, directing policy and my arguement still stands that their influence was essential to starting the Iraq war. Without it I doubt it would have happened.

As to my "collectivist" leanings yes, I will always help my friend and neighbor, sorry I love them and would do all I could to help. I'm not sure that type of "collectivism" is a bad thing

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 20:50 | 3722498 forward ho
forward ho's picture

That type of collectivism is great.

Its a problem when others decide how much help needs to be given.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 00:11 | 3722778 prains
prains's picture

the word collectivist / ism is a meaningless word it has no universal understanding so I'd rather ditch it and start another; I'm a mudivist and a believer in mudivism; I like mud

plus being a mudivist has the added bonus of confounding the NSA.....WTF is a mudivist? We like mud and eat cheesepoops

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 09:58 | 3723401 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

PAINS is a true commie - changing the meanings of words to suit his collectivist worldview.

OBAMA did the same thing to get elected twice (stimulus, investment, green energy, etc.)

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 00:07 | 3722784 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

I'm not sure that type of "collectivism" is a bad thing

not at all, just as long as it's not enforced upon someone else.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:00 | 3721924 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

>>>>>corporations don't order anyone to war. Your hyperbole notwithstanding.

That's right! CONgress does...Oh wait 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:07 | 3721933 walküre
walküre's picture

Why don't you discuss Paula Dean or homosexual marriage? After all that is what you're supposed to care about and get distracted with. Don't look behind the curtain - ever.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:56 | 3721916 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Ahh, the RayGun-Thatcher years. That was the beginning of my awakening.

 Govt & Corp = Symbiotic Incest

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:05 | 3721928 prains
prains's picture

and one of their first steps was to capture the universities intellectual base through funding removal and thereby eliminating a major source of intellectual criticism. Basically intellectuals were told play along or no funding for you, keep your mouths shut. Most sold out and hence no reliable source of scholarly debate is left in the Various States of Detroitification. It's up to CNN now, holy fuck!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:14 | 3721947 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Should you like to see how that very process also caputured pharma & healthcare treatment protocol, look no further than a docu "Under Our Skin". 

Much like the Hank the Tank in what they've done to physicians. Heaven help the pukes if they ever get on the wrong side of theirs. 

Leprosy & scabies to the errogenous zones would be to kind for them. 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:36 | 3721970 prains
prains's picture

it's all boxed and ready for shipping, even the SHTF is prepackaged and waiting for release. The first to go violent will be TPTB, it's their trump card for total control. But it only works through fear and violence. The only way to win is stand still, don't blink and don't move. Total silence.

 

my theory is VSD<2013usa> has two canaries in the coal mine;

1. Japan > print to the collapse > probably goes down first

2. Germany > austerity to the collapse > PIGS may take them down first.

Two opposing fiscal theories are playing out real time for the US to monitor effects both financially but also socially. Interesting how both these countries as cultures are the most submissive as well. So when one or both of these cultures goes over the cliff, the US will have advance notice of how severe the backlash from their own populations will be and the US can prepare accordingly knowing that if it goes batshit in relatively benign cultures then it's going gong show back home and we all know Tanks beats guns all day long.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 10:03 | 3723447 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

How do you go from austerity to collapse?  Isn't the problem with Socialism is that you run out of other peoples money to spend?

So cutting back on socialism will cause the German economy to collapse?  Why?  You've twisted yourself into a illogical pretzel.

 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:33 | 3722736 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

If you think capture of academe, as if such a thing even makes sense, only goes back 40 years, I've got bad news. When did academe begin? That's how far back it goes.

If you're hoping for intellectuals to have any moral compass or moral integrity or moral courage, you're hoping to bleed a stone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocPTdtXEKD8

Disclaimer: I'm not a Chomsky fanboi, as far as I'm concerned he's a far left gatekeeper who devotes quite a bit of effort to internal political squabbles between various brands of leftists (which is good fun to watch), but his criticism is generally razor sharp, and that is certainly the case in this video.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:56 | 3722767 prains
prains's picture

far left - far right; what do you have; the same thing; stalin/hitler

left/right means nothing anymore and Chomsky eats guys like you and me for breakfast intellectually; only I'm smart enough not to put him in your left/right paradigm. Take him out of your pigeon hole, scrape off the left/right bullshit used to muddy his ideas and generally he's pretty much spot on with his analysis.

control the medium you control the message; that is the USA chapter and verse; from that starting point you have the last two centuries ready to ship, free delivery

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:38 | 3722692 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

1980? Dude, you're off by a century as regards the US, and about 300 years as regards Britain.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:58 | 3722771 prains
prains's picture

pick whatever date you want, I'm not publishing a fucking article for peer review. You want to go all footnote that's your choice

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 01:18 | 3722833 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Someone's testy. The date is kind of relevant, because, you know, things happen in order, and some things cause other things. As I said elsewhere, you don't grasp causation.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 09:51 | 3723414 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

He picked 1980 so he can blame everything on Reagan. 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 06:29 | 3722923 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Yes, NMRN! You are one of the few that gets it right. Corps can try to influence but they have no police, F-18's, NSA, etc. They pale in comparison. Yes, the do buy influence and try to get the government to do what they want which may include making your life miserable, but they cannot do it themselves. Almost every conspiracy theory you can name disappears when you disempower gov't.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 05:04 | 3727850 gsmiley
gsmiley's picture

Wackenhut Corporation does which is where they will send you (private prison system) and can hold you indefinitely on the basis of possible gang membership (got any tatts? A library?) and god knows what else.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:59 | 3722021 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

@prains, +1

Thanks for the link and chart.  It would be awesome to superimpose the Board of Directors attached to each of those entities. I started something like that but simply couldn't afford to keep it up and still put food on the table. Would have to be crowd sourced because of the amount of work involved.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:24 | 3722067 prains
prains's picture

I think that's a great idea;

link the logo's to faces and names and start a tree to corpro/political affiliations, see where that worm hole leads. I will contact the maker of this chart and float that one by him, others should do the same.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 06:55 | 3722940 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Muckety.com does sort of what you're looking for...

Here for instance is a Booz Allen Hamilton query @ Muckety:

 

 

or: http://www.muckety.com/Booz-Allen-Hamilton/5000259.muckety

quite the wormhole right there...

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 07:15 | 3722955 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

You can query names too...fer instance:

Kyle Bass

 

looks pretty simple, right? double click on that lower right box("Business Executives For National Security") and see what that opens up.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 19:41 | 3722326 PKF
PKF's picture

A MSM chart would be nice as well....I saw someone refer to the MSM as 'Vintage Media' which made me feel good. 

We're way past the days of 'friendly fascism.'  It's now hardcore.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 20:31 | 3722464 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Think this guy's book is "prohibitive"?

LMFAO

Nothing is "prohibitive" in a police state darlin'.

Not if you run the tables bitch.

LMFAO (again).

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:38 | 3722739 prains
prains's picture

prohibitive

in the sense I don't have the cash to join his club, he has a minimum buy in and I can't buy a seat at his table so he's not selling me anything

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:29 | 3722631 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

Looking at the pictorial I was struck by the fact that the Geriatric of Omaha has controlling stock in almost all of the companies listed. Folksy, quaint investor - my ass. Warren Buffett is a total shark. 

These companies make billions while poisoning the masses one spoonful at a time. But  "hey were all safe the FDA is keeping close watch on em" ... that is when they're not busy busting up farmers markets and destroying the livelihoods of amish who dare to sell raw milk.  What a fuckn farce this country has become.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 00:08 | 3722785 prains
prains's picture

Oligarchs man, it's the new drink and we have to drink like it or not, until we don't, tick tock

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:31 | 3722635 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

Looking at the pictorial I was struck by the fact that the Geriatric of Omaha has controlling stock in almost all of the companies listed. Folksy, quaint investor - my ass. Warren Buffett is a total shark. 

These companies make billions while poisoning the masses one spoonful at a time. But  "hey were all safe the FDA is keeping close watch on em" ... that is when they're not busy busting up farmers markets and destroying the livelihoods of amish who dare to sell raw milk.  What a fuckn farce this country has become.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 01:31 | 3722841 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

The Illusion of Choice

Here's the much higher resolution version plus one about the Media Consolidation into the SIX GIANTS - http://webodysseum.com/history/the-illusion-of-choice/

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 03:37 | 3722882 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Also note that those mega corporations are all financed by the very same international banking cartel - and they don't mega-finance a corporation that isn't a member of their that supports their agenda.

Perhaps some time should be invested trying to figure said agenda...  it could be important.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:12 | 3721702 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Seems like I recall the company was named after Buster Hayman.  I think remember him from grade school.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:41 | 3722743 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

That was Buster Hymen....

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 07:50 | 3722993 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Sorry about your Hayman.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:47 | 3721996 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

(T)His book doesn't need selling by KB. It sells itself.

(insert deity here) help us all.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:34 | 3722641 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

What I find is that true "experts" are often able to break things down to very simple but powerful components. More than anyone I can think of, Kyle Bass does this over and over. When he shows equities versus actual production numbers I find it both beautiful, powerful and very understandable. As he explains the dimishing returns and results of stimulus and monetary policy you can match it up very well to recent history.

Then you compare his analyses to the "All is well!" noise and BS that dominates the talking heads in government and on TV and you begin to see how it all may come down in the future.

I read ZH for these types of links, analyses and the ever enjoyable comments that usually follow...even while I am depressed at the future.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:48 | 3721646 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

China is drastically slowing down. It looks like we may soon be entering into another 2008 style crisis, but this time with much much more debt.

 

http://schiffblog.blogspot.ca/

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 18:23 | 3721711 CPL
CPL's picture

With the levels of debt and rising interest rates.  2008 is going to seem like a dream come true.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 20:38 | 3722475 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Just STFU and join us in seeking 'solutions'.

Thanks to the NSA and umm, well whatever, we can still pull this off for at least 3-4 more years.

More if the teabaggers would just FOAD?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:43 | 3722659 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I have family and friends in China and frankly, you can see it building up in a thousand ways. I personally believe China has been a sort of faux economy for well over a decade. They took our theories, mostly Keynsian and our bad economic theories like GDP and did them big, Chinese style. China is still an authoritative centrally planned and controlled economy. The components of their economy are not very sophisticated and they are direct and simple in their actions. So, when China orders governors to hit GDP targets and like the (stupid) West use government spending as a component then you see them build empty shopping malls, office buildings and even entire towns. But, hey they hit their GDP targets and construction companies got wealthy. In the West, there are at least skeptics and counterpoints, enough resistance and judgement that we do not build empty cities but we do similar things by inflating sectors and funding innumberable Solyndra's and Fiskers.

It will not end well in China nor in the West for that matter. I believe 2008 may look like a piker compared to what comes next. In a strange sense I actually feel sympathetic to all the other citizens of the world who will crash and burn with us for believing in the concept of genius, elitist, clairvoyant, disinterested economic planners.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:43 | 3722748 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Very thoughtful, good if sobering post.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:41 | 3721773 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Deflation, Bitchez?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:49 | 3722001 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

TYLER: MICHAEL BURRY IS COMING BACK.  

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:20 | 3721562 Mongo
Mongo's picture

Kyle Bass for president!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:59 | 3721675 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Texas ought to secede from the union and appoint Kyle Bass the first President of the new Republic of Texas.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:41 | 3721774 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Kinky Friedman or Alex Jones for President, KB for Treasury Secretary.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:33 | 3721866 AGuy
AGuy's picture

Consider the flood of Socialist pouring in to TX from CA, NV, OR, WA, and even NY. Sooner or later TX is going to morph into the Socialist state of TX. Texas often talks about it Mexican Border issue, will ignoring the real border problem: The wave of Socialist immigrants from Other US socialists states. TX is likely to elect the next Jimmy Carter for Governor than Bass.

 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 07:53 | 3722999 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Nobody who isn't already a chest-thumping Repugnicant is moving to Texas; the only thing turning Texas blue is the propensity for Texans to piss off any and all new arrivals with skin darker than a brown paper bag.

 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:24 | 3721570 gjp
gjp's picture

What about good ole US of A, Kyle?  Who's making the tough decisions here?  Who's moving decisively to restrain credit and accept lower growth?

Oh, nobody is?  But you're happy to play Zen Priest at home while you point out everybody else's problems?  I see ... just cannot be helped

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:34 | 3721608 ATM
ATM's picture

Ypu've got a computer. Go back and read any of the Hayman letters that are free on the intraweb.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:05 | 3721630 gjp
gjp's picture

From what I've seen, he glosses over USUK problems as most USUK hedge fund managers seem to do, when USUK is the most over-financialized, highest trade deficit major global region.  If you want to compare, who is living most beyond their means as a country (not just government, the whole country, household, corporate and govt sectors together)?  It's USUK no contest.

The financial problem is global with USUK and the 'reserve currency' dollar at the heart.  Ben will print to support Japan and everyone else, because America can't afford to have anyone go under since it will crash the whole system in mere hours.  Ben will print to support everyone.  Japan's 80s bubble was mostly at the hands of the usual culprit, USUK hot money.  It's a global problem, and I hate hearing about Japan's problems constantly from 8-figure financial masters of the universe.

Bass is better than most, I'll give you that, but he's too quiet about the elephant in the room (USUK cancerous financialization).

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:05 | 3721687 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Last video I saw of him he said the US was totally fucked up and he left DC depressed.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:19 | 3721717 Late to the party
Late to the party's picture

Agreed. He says that all the time. He just doesnt think they US will be first to fall. 

He's of the opinion that this will end in war. He says as much in a lot of interviews. Unsurprisingly its not something the people interviewing him normally press him on. 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:53 | 3721798 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

KB has often said first Japan, then the US. He has his fortress in Texas and his 20 million nickels, so he is ready. I bought the 15 acre farm and loaded up some PMs, base metals, and delivery devices, so bring it bitchez. Happy Independence Day.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:48 | 3722672 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Here is another consideration: He is in a competitive industry and you win by being ahead of the herd. How much can you publish compared to what you know or think? Besides, KB has testified in front of Congress and been consulted by the very governments you name...not that they take his advice. So, I think he has no higher duty to governments. I consider the fact that he shares his thinking at all with the common riff raff like us to actually be humanitarian. He could build a fortified compound, say nothing and wait for the catastrophe and still be well off, even profit from his economic clairvoyance.

So, personally, I think him and all who disseminate this type of information like ZH.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 14:25 | 3724277 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I meant "thank him".

And while it is depressing I am glad for the other side of the story here at ZH. I am sure we must all be on the NSA watch list for future prosecution.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:46 | 3721638 dryam
dryam's picture

Are you retarded, seriously?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:43 | 3721576 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Largemouth Bass

Don't hate bro, I actually found the post interesting...

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:24 | 3721577 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

 

 

Those with money managed by Bass are fortunate.

He is one hell of a smart guy who certainly does his homework.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:53 | 3721661 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Most money managers are smart, smart enough to know without fiat currency they'd be glue.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 06:34 | 3722926 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

oddjob, I understand what you say but I will categorically disagree. Change the rules and paradigm and the money managers will change their methods and investments. If we had a full reserve banking system producing things and saving would be astoundingly profitable and the way to go. Money managers would invest accordingly. Governments set the rules and everyone else responds.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 18:05 | 3722128 Aurora Ex Machina
Aurora Ex Machina's picture

Now now, there's plenty of cases of drunk young men being run off the road by deer rushing them and crashing into trees.[1]

One thing that did cause a Matrix moment:

In November 2011, Swank spoke at the AR Symposium, an annual hedge-fund event in New York, and recommended buying shares of McMoRan Exploration Co. (MMR), an oil and gas producer, HedgeFund Intelligence Ltd., a London-based data provider, said on its website.

Within five weeks the stock rose 27 percent, then declined. Yesterday, it jumped 87 percent after the New Orleans-based company agreed to be acquired by Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc., for a gain of 22 percent since Swank’s recommendation. The Russell 2000 Energy Index declined 11 percent over the same period.[Bloomberg 2012-12-06]

 

Phoenix-based Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc. has completed its acquisitions of McMoRan Exploration Co. in New Orleans and Plains Exploration & Production Co. in Houston.

The McMoRan Exploration transaction was completed Monday and the Plains Exploration deal on Friday.

The $19 billion in deals gives the global copper, gold and molybdenum mining company a portfolio of oil and gas assets and re-unites McMoRan Exploration with Freeport-McMoRan. [source June 11th 2013]

That's a long negotiation, to be sure.

 

[1]Reminds me of how the father of an old friend died. He had a chauffeur, and was always very careful about the old Law and drinking. One night, on a business trip, he learned it was his chauffeur's birthday, so invited him to dinner, and offered to drive so the man could drink. So, he did. Driving back to the hotel (country roads), a police car on pursuit topped a hill going far too fast and wiped them out. Official investigation: he was drunk driving, his rolex and wallet had disappeared at the scene of the accident and there was no formal investigation. My old friend never did trust the authorities after that one...

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:03 | 3722592 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

re-unites McMoRan Exploration with Freeport-McMoRan

hmmm, seems there's a history.   wonder what it is?  

(sorry, i'm a lazy sod right now to be bothered to dig.   watching "illegal" fireworks and listening to hendrix & the pistols is much more fun...oh shit, here comes the copter...haha!)

p.s.  interesting story...camels and needles come to mind...

Happy Big Brother Day everyone.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:28 | 3721586 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Kaboom to the global table invitees. Sorry, we ran out of money and had to close this circus function down.


Dead Can Dance - The Carnival Is Over

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:35 | 3721610 ATM
ATM's picture

Why would they ever run out of money? Money is free for them.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:29 | 3721588 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

The Japanese people are facing the same question as those in the southern US, namely are they willing to give up their culture to support a bastardized crony capitist monopoly system run by the liberal elite of the world. In the end the answer for both in my opinion will be negative

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:37 | 3721615 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Not just the south, kemo sabe.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:09 | 3721824 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

The midwest, with the exception of Illinois and parts of Ohio, is asking the same question. 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:46 | 3721892 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

100 counties of Illinois are on the side of the angels. 

Cook County (think Sow Chicaga) and East St. Louis should roast in their own special sauce.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:07 | 3722603 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

while the 99 interior counties roast in their GMO cornfields

all we need now is a flintlock

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:00 | 3721923 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Muppet, the South would die if not for the "liberal" states. The Southern (mostly R team) states are benefited more than they put in per dollar collected.

From Business Insider: "Anything over a dollar means the state received more than it paid; anything less than $1.00 means the state paid more in taxes than it received in services. The higher the figure, the more a given state is a welfare queen.

Of the twenty worst states, 16 are either Republican dominated or conservative states. Let's go through the top twenty.

  • New Mexico: $2.03
  • Mississippi: $2.02
  • Alaska: $1.84
  • Louisiana: $1.78
  • West Virginia: $1.76
  • North Dakota: $1.68
  • Alabama: $1.66
  • South Dakota: $1.53
  • Kentucky: $1.51
  • Virginia: $1.51
  • Montana: $1.47
  • Hawaii: $1.44
  • Maine: $1.41
  • Arkansas: $1.41
  • Oklahoma: $1.36
  • South Carolina: $1.35
  • Missouri: $1.32
  • Maryland: $1.30
  • Tennessee: $1.27
  • Idaho: $1.21

Does anyone else notice the overwhelming presence of northern "rugged individualist" states, like Alaska, the Dakotas and Montana, along with most of the South? Why it's almost like there's a pattern here or something.

Where can we find liberal bastions California, New York, and Massachusetts? California is 43rd, getting back only $0.78 for every dollar it sends to Washington. New York is 42nd, and one penny better off, at $0.79 per dollar. Massachusetts is 40th, receiving $0.82 for every dollar it sends to DC."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/red-states-are-welfare-queens-2011-8#ixzz2Y6nbLlV1
Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:25 | 3722069 ATM
ATM's picture

Your stats don't tell us what you think they do. It is basically a list of poorest states by income. And since taxes, the denominator in your equation is lower, you end up with propaganda.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:53 | 3722120 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Bingo!

Also, many of those dollars that are 'sent South' go to manufacturing plants that build military hardware. The plants are down here because the unions are up north. 

If the north wants to reclaim their manufactiuring base and keep their taxes, they should start by getting rid of the unions. 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:51 | 3722610 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

if america wants to be free, it better stop worrying about what corporations do to increase the tax base (aka interest payments for debt created from nothing, payable to holders of said fictitious debt),

including digging up old wounds to divide & conquer...

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:45 | 3722666 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

You'll need to post some stats to prove that to me. I was digging around and couldn't find what you claimed to be true. As far as I know, military manufacturing is pretty well spread out throughout the country on a per capita basis. Not saying you're wrong, I just can't find your stats anywhere.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:59 | 3722690 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

That's my point. The poorest states would be FUCKED without the "liberal" states paying for their shit. My post was as a response to a guy who thinks that the South shall riiise a'gin and become independent. The South couldn't pave a road without the dollars flowing in from "liberal" states.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:30 | 3722075 Dr.Engineer
Dr.Engineer's picture

So where is California and New York?  Are you trying to tell me that they aren't on this list?  Why not?  That list is a piece of bull pie in a field of doo doo.

Bet it was composed by a liberal rag.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:49 | 3722668 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

Keep reading my post Doc. NY and Cali are explained. And when did Business Insider become a liberal rag? Jesus, if it's not Rush or FoxNews it's a liberal rag??!!

 

 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:13 | 3722613 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

In a lot of those states a good portion of the landis owned and managed by the Feds, so a lot of federal money goes into them.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:52 | 3722677 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

False.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:56 | 3722684 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You misinterpret the data. It does not mean what you hope it means. Federal spending covers a raft of things from basic welfare to pork to military expenditures. Most military bases are in the South and West along with many other things like high rates of poverty, particularly among minorities and illegals. Why don't you take a look at states running deficits and most likely to go bankrupt? Your list will change dramatically.

If you think socialism-collectivism, etc. is a good thing just say so and say why. These data do not really help your cause. You also like to intimate that somehow leftist-statist-libs are superior to anyone in Republican states. I will happily assent to that idea. In fact, it is such a good idea that I think all the states you feel are superior should secede immediately and form the USSA. I will take my chances with the rednecks. Good luck!

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:07 | 3722700 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

I'm not trying to play the R Team vs. B Team thing. I hate all of them equally. I was attempting to end the idea that the Southern states could be independant. They financially can't.

 

Also, you are the second our third person to say that these numbers are wrong because of military spending going to poor states. Could you please post that information? I keep searching for it, but cannnot find a thing.

 

 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 00:05 | 3722783 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

On the contrary; you conflate cause and effect. They are poorer beause they are not independent. As for the reason for that, you need to go back to this nation's founding and then follow the trail to the courthouse at Appomattox.

The lesson of the decades since: welfare destroys. I say, if we are going to argue over states, let every state exit the union and thereafter do what it will, let them rise and fall on their own merit. (Okay, maybe that it just an indirect way of accomplishing the immediate goal: dissolve the federal government in its entirety, banish it from this Earth forever, I admit it).

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 06:37 | 3722929 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Exactly. It really doesn't matter what you say about the independence of any entity. Can Washington survive without the rest of country? Can Dallas survive without Texas? Can your neighborhood survive without your city or country? Depends on what you measure and want to prove?

The problem at the core is still government and they systems and incentives they set up.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 08:12 | 3723024 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

This trend is repeated at state scale...the "red" counties in CA are routinely handed hundreds of dollars more per capita than they contribute by the "blue" counties of SF, Marin, and Sonoma.

It's almost like the cityfolk are paying them a bribe to keep their hillbilly asses up in the Sierra Madre.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:47 | 3721641 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> run by the liberal elite of the world.

Seriously, where do you get this liberal tag from?  Are the Koch Bros liberal?  What's liberal about the MIC?  What's liberal about big oil? What is liberal to you?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:15 | 3721708 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture

Liberal to me is big government and all that comes with it.  Liberals are people fully willing to put their people and the peoples children (and their children for that matter) into bondage to run a corrupt entity that essentially has no real use for all of the stolen cash anyway.  They try to hide how they spend it just to keep it from the people that they did not really even need it in the first place.  Liberals to me are corrupt people who lie to the masses about what their statist entrerprises are actually up to so that they and their friends can extract massive amounts of wealth without actually working for it.  Yes it is not so simple as to be able to explain to the masses in one sitting the methods undertaken by these folks but rest assured, at the core of their power is the ability to convince masses of the proverbial free lunch.  This is nothing new, and it too will end at some point.  Sadly the Egyptian people are showing that they have far more spine to rid themselves of tyrants than the Americans at this point.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:21 | 3722057 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

are you serious? how about keeping it simple? Like "Liberals are people"? followed by "who call themselves liberal"? i-dog taught me to bite straw-men

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 22:17 | 3722619 tip e. canoe
Thu, 07/04/2013 - 18:10 | 3722142 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> Liberal to me is big government

Help me out here.  When is the last time anybody of any party reduced the size of government?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 10:19 | 3723514 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Exactly - that is what the tea party is all about.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:04 | 3722693 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well, Muppet, liberal and liberalism has come to mean something in the common vernacular. However, "liberal" used to be good word and frankly, most of us who love freedom and LIBERty would be classic liberals. It got mixed up and misused in the early 20th century.

The true far left is communism with 100% government and 0% individual liberty. Government owns you and your labor. You serve the government. The far right is anarchy (100% individual liberty and 0% government) and libertariansm with little or no government and you own yourself and your labor...and any government that exist serves you. When you use this spectrum, the the words, liberty, liberal, Libertarian all align properly.

This spectrum drives leftist-statists batshit because all the badguys in history come from the Left. Hitler was a National Socialist (Nazi) and a leftist, not a far right. Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim, etc. are all even farther left, but still Leftists.

Short of that...I think you are actually right.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 00:17 | 3722796 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"However, "liberal" used to be good word"

Yeah classical librrrrrulism blah blah blah gotcha. "Used to be a good work" before the world had centuries of empirical evidence to show it was only yet another variety of horseshit which has been extremely useful to the wealthy and powerful.

PS: Don't ever bother trying to talk to leftist about left vs. right. For them, anything left of, for example, the modern American Democratic party is not left or right, it is reactionary. For them, "right" means not-entirely-100%-on-board with the immediate implementation of full socialism (the definition of which they will argue over endlessly) as per orthodox Marxism. There were "right" and "left" elements of every so-called Communist regime which inherited from Marxism/Marxism-Leninism, if you understand their particular use of those terms. The whole thing is a vastly complex heap of bullshit.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 06:43 | 3722933 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well, I will meet you halfway. However, the Left always changes the language to set the agenda. I have spoken to groups and I draw out the model with a lot more detail and explanation. There is a lot of value in getting the definitions right or even changing them if you will. It changes the conversation and the Leftist-statists-collectivists sort of get verbally disarmed. When you take the blinders off people start realigning themselves with what they think they are and where they want to be. It starts a valuable thought process. It is not bullshit in that sense. It launches a lot of valuable thinking.

You are spot-on with the Left and their intolerance of anything not 100% invested in the utopian State they promise (but never deliver). This is bullshit.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 08:16 | 3723029 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

By your definition, every Republican in congress is also liberal.

You're mad and you want a name for what you're mad at; thanks for putting the leash on yourself.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 14:30 | 3724296 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well, not every Republican is liberal in the classic sense. There are a whole lot of big government Republicans. But, your point is actually correct while your conclusion is wrong. I talked to a group of older Republican women once and I told them by classical definitions they were actually "liberal" in that they favored more freedom and less control. I almost had to do CPR on a few of them.

Using the modern definition of liberal which in general is a statist-collectivist, there are many Republican liberals, especially in the Northeast...like Romney who did RomneyCare. Is this news?

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:16 | 3721710 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Most people don't have a clue what "liberal" really means. "Liberal comes from the same Latin root that "liberty" does. The "elite of the world", like the Koch brothers, certainly do NOT advocate liberty for their herds of proletarian livestock.

Elites are basically what remains of the landed gentry, kingly class of the middle ages. "Conservative" had always meant beliefs that support, i.e. conserved that feudal class structure and its dogmas. During the American revolution, conservatives were the Tories. This is still pretty much true in Britain where the opposition party to the Liberal Party are the Tories. (This shouldn't be interpreted as meaning I believe the British Liberal Party is actually liberal. It's really just another fascist organization.)

That Big Oil is NOT liberal should be obvious to anyone that has an IQ above 50.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 14:28 | 3721741 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Big Oil's tax subsidies tell a different story.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 08:17 | 3723038 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

The fact you think tax subsidies are unique to liberals is very telling.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 23:11 | 3722707 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You are wrong on multiple counts. Like most errors you start on the right path. "Conservative" as a word and political spectrum just tend to be people who are for the status quo and limited change. So, it might be the Tories in early American history or the political right as it is now. Our Constitution and early government was pretty much libertarian. So being a conservative is to want to preserve that tradition of liberty. You don't know squat about the Kock brothers and like most lefties you just make assertions about the character of your opposition. Would you say Soros and Moveon are laudable and selfless in their pusuits?

You also fall for leftist ideology on "Big Oil" and "Big anything else".

If you want to avoid fascists, elitists and the likes keep your eye fixed on the real enemy. It is an all powerful government interested in itself and power as it's end. This is its historical natural evolution. Without it, Big Oil or anyone else cannot oppress you.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:52 | 3721873 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Koch brothers, lol. Yes, libertarians or libertarian leaning forces run the world. They don't get much for their money apparently cause the Democrats or the GOP (statist clusterfucks) always manage to be elected and the Libertarian Parties on both side of the Canado-US border get like 2% of the vote and the Canadian version sometimes doesn't even qualify to be a party you can vote for.

Talk about "running the world"...

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 08:21 | 3723045 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

What kind of clusterfuck is the state of Wisconsin? There's a recent Koch purchase for ya.

You only think they're "Libertarian" because you've been too busy spanking your greed to consider the facts.

They live by the American motto, "You pay for what you get." 

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:30 | 3721594 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Hell, I've been hunkered down since 2008 and the bailouts.

This is Bubble Part II, more explosions in the sequel.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:32 | 3721598 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

“Shikata ga nai”

It cannot be helped.

Institutionalized by the state and accepted as a part of culture, the belief that "It cannot be helped" implies that the Japanese are all just victims and powerless to stop that which they participate in and willingly enable.

While we can all sit around discussing how this attitude is exclusively endemic to the Japanese culture, I can't help but see the obvious threads woven within the various Western cultures beginning with the money meme and flowing outward from there.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 13:38 | 3721618 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Ask yourself a question. Is this macroeconomics and microeconomics? You will find your answer my friend.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 15:12 | 3721829 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Have any of you that have taken world history classes actually encountered the Rothschild family name during the course of your studies? I think not. Before problems can be solved they must first be identified. With all due respect to the peoples of Egypt and others in similar situations around the world, nothing will be changed by installing a new puppet ( undoubtedly with Rothschild alliance) as head of state. You can't eradicate a dandelion population without attention to the roots. It all begins with education.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 16:13 | 3721946 walküre
walküre's picture

History has been rewritten and allot of time and money was spent to re-educate the people since 1945 .... Anyone even mentioning the Rothschild's in a public forum will get a severe bashing and beating. If they're lucky it stops there. Was hoping the Chinese would set the record straight but I'm disappointed to this date.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:11 | 3722044 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

various Rothschilds have been in China since the early 1970's, when Nixon / Kissinger "opened the door" for them,

Q. How do you really split your investments between emerging economies and the developed world?

A. Well, just to make your list more complicated than it already was, we are actually for the first time taking a very serious look at Africa. We were in India early. We should have been in China early. My husband with Rothschild Bank was here very early. He came after the Cultural Revolution ended, and he was the first major bank to come to see the government in the 1970s. We at E.L. Rothschild, missed a few boats, regrettably in China. We invested in India pretty early, and we are looking at infrastructure in Africa right now to add to your list. Where we find the management team, we’ll make the investment.

same as it ever was.

Thu, 07/04/2013 - 17:55 | 3722122 walküre
walküre's picture

profiting on both sides of the aisle .. talking out of both sides of their mouths

That 'ole book they wrote cannot be understood unless the reader is bipolar. Any sane person trying to make sense of it will develop bipolar disorder as a result. Many people are completely off the rocker bipolar, paranoid and have schizophrenic behaviour. But they're being medicated either knowingly or unknowingly. I'm somewhat over the top and cynical here. All that's left to cope with the present.

I like to immerse myself into the research of peoples before "their" time and "their" records distorted everything. Worth preserving that and hopefully one day, a generation can be born that won't give them the time of day.

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