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The World Reacts To Egypt's Coup
As the mainstream media shows endless scenes of celebration in Tahrir Square following last night's military ouster of democratically-elected President Morsi, the tensions with his supporters grows more widespread. Perhaps, what is more worrisome for the future of Egypt, which we noted last night was definitely on a path on instability, is the reaction of world governments - from "deeply concerned" America to Turkey's "unacceptable" perspective to Saudi Arabia's "congratulations" and Russia's "democracy is not a panacea"- it seems not everyone is behind the second coup in 3 years (but everyone is calling for calm as the middle-eastern turmoil ripples into their markets) but is a "setback for democracy."
Via Al Arabiya,
United Nations
Meanwhile, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Wednesday appealed for calm and restraint in Egypt. "Many Egyptians in their protests have voiced deep frustrations and legitimate concerns," he said in a statement, reported by Reuters,that did not condemn the Egyptian armed forces' ouster of Mursi. "At the same time, military interference in the affairs of any state is of concern," he said. "Therefore, it will be crucial to quickly reinforce civilian rule in accordance with principles of democracy."
Saudi Arabia
In the Arab world, Saudi King Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz congratulated the newly-appointed Egyptian interim President, Adly Mansour, on Wednesday. “In my own name and on behalf of the people of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, I congratulate you on assuming the leadership of Egypt at this critical point of its history,” said the king in a cable carried by the Saudi Press Agency (SPA). “By doing so, I appeal to Allah Almighty to help you to shoulder the responsibility laid on your shoulder to achieve the hopes of our sisterly people of the Arab Republic of Egypt.”
Russia
Meanwhile, in controversial remarks, a top lawmaker close to Russian President Vladimir Putin said Mursi’s ouster proves that democracy does not work in non-Western states. "The events in Egypt show that there is no quick and peaceful transition from authoritarian regimes to democratic politics," said Alexei Puskov, chairman of parliament's foreign affairs committee. "This means that democracy does not work as a panacea, especially in countries that are not part of the Western world," he told the Interfax news agency.
European Union I
EU officials said they had no plans to reconsider foreign aid to Egypt. "I am not aware of any urgent plans to rethink our aid programs at the moment," Michael Mann, a spokesman for foreign policy chief Ashton, told reporters. "But the dust is still settling on what happened last night."
European Union II
European Union's chief diplomat, Catherine Ashton, urged all sides to return to the democratic process, "including the holding of free and fair presidential and parliamentary elections and the approval of a constitution, to be done in a fully inclusive manner, so as to permit the country to resume and complete its democratic transition." She added, "I hope that the new administration will be fully inclusive and reiterate the importance of ensuring full respect for fundamental rights, freedoms and the rule of law."
Poland
"Recalling our democratic transformation, accomplished without bloodshed, we appeal to the sides of the conflict in Egypt to continue the process of the country's democratization through negotiations and without resorting to acts of violence and military intervention,"
USA
President Obama said Washington "is deeply concerned by the decision of the Egyptian Armed Forces to remove President Morsi and suspend the Egyptian constitution." The president called "on the Egyptian military to move quickly and responsibly to return full authority back to a democratically elected civilian government as soon as possible through an inclusive and transparent process, and to avoid any arbitrary arrests of President Morsi and his supporters."
Turkey
The response from Turkey, where mass protests have targeted Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was even stronger, not least because Morsi had been a very close ally of Ankara. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu described the military coup as "unacceptable." He said: "You can only be removed from duty through elections, that is, the will of the people. It is unacceptable for a government, which has come to power through democratic elections, to be toppled through illicit means and even more, a military coup," he told reporters.
France
The government in France said it has great hopes for the election that Egyptian military leaders have promised, "so that the Egyptian people can freely choose their leaders and their future." However, the statement from French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius did not directly address Morsi's toppling.
UK
Prime Minister David Cameron called on all parties to end the violence in Egypt, where nearly 50 people have been killed in clashes between Morsi supporters and opponents since Sunday. "It is not for this country to support any single group or party," he said in a statement. "What we should support is proper democratic processes and proper government by consent."
Foreign Secretary William Hague also told the BBC: "We don't support military intervention as a way to resolve disputes in a democratic system." "It's of course a dangerous precedent to do that, if one president can be deposed by the military, then of course another one can be in the future -- that's a dangerous thing."
Germany
[the coup] has been described as a "serious setback for democracy" by Germany.
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle said the country must return to constitutional order as quickly as possible. "I call on all those responsible in Egypt , to act calmly, to meet each other halfway and to seek ways out of this serious crisis of state together."
and The Telegraph's Peter Osborne notes six interesting points many should ponder...
Here are six points that strike me as indisputable about today’s events in Egypt.
1. Mohammed Morsi is in custody this morning, yet the only crime he has committed is being elected president of his country.
2. If you don't like a democratic government, you stick with it until the next election when you have a chance to throw it out. That is how democracy works.
3. There is no doubt this was a military coup. Attempts to claim otherwise are absurd.
4. Mohammed el Baradei (and the Coptic Church) have done himself great damage by backing the military intervention. Whatever form of government comes next will lack legitimacy because of the methods used today.
5. William Hague failure to condemn outright and wholeheartedly the military coup on the Today Programme today was a terrible mistake.
6. This is another democratically elected Islamist regime, like that of Algeria in 1991, which has not been given a chance. Today's events are disastrous for the relationship between the West and the Muslim world.
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No one really cares what established governments have to say, most of them are just as bad as the ousted one in Egypt, or in some cases worse.
OK, seriously, how is 33 million people on the streets of your nation a 'setback for democracy'?
Because everyone in the country's voice was heard equally, so it wasn't fair to the ultra-wealthy? There was no way to rig the process, hence a 'setback for democracy'? /s
The mini-Fascists will all protest the event because it sends the clear signal to the rest of the world that they should not be putting up with the constant shit that they are putting up with.
this is little different than an old fashioned recall of an elected official
prob was this guy was fast tracking to dictator status
Fast tracking, slow tracking, they all want to be dictator on the inside, no matter the timing or pacing of it.
Did you guys notice that any problems make markets actualy going much higher on their "resolution". Problems in Greece contributed to about 2000 do up points as every other days we where hearing how Greece will or is "saved". And it was for time. Same Cyprus initialy market went little lower just to take out new hights after problem was "solved", Now Egypt - Europe rallied 3% today and regardless payroll numbers US will rally like crazy on a thin volume
God, I love the sound of hypocritical comments in the morning.
What the hell is Peter Osborne smoking?
His comments strike me as totally sold out to the statist view of the world, eh?
DaddyO
Clashes between Army and Egyptian demonstrators.
https://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-ash4/v/1051568_154689081387...
https://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-ash3/v/1055195_437248383040...
Wow - that's a brutal video zerozulu. Got a date/time/place for this one?
This thing is going to spin out of control VERY quickly. Whatever you think of Mursi he was elected with a big majority. Those millions upon millions who voted for him are not going to take this lying down. This is going to be like the Algeria civil war of the 1990s.
Bullshit he was in a run off. With 40% of the people voting. He was backed by the big money islamist and other anti military back. He lost all support when he tried to male changes to the constitution turning egypt into a dictatorship. So before u make statements go lool at the facts. I will bet many in usa would like to toss out obama but the people who own obamanation also own the military
n
The Egyptian Military could see the writing on the wall.
They did not want to get dumped by Morsi the same way his fellow traveller Erdogan tossed the Turkish top brass.
Just noticed that did you?
Now that you've been red pilled, there is more to learn. Carry on Horatio!
Just wait until the Great Reset hits with full force. Poverty, desperation and hunger will drive billions of people mad all over the world, and the weakest forms of government will crumble first. Weak nations will either crumble into lawlwss-like Somalias ruled by warlords and gangs, or they will be militarized and totalitarian in one way or another. The West will probably be thrown into a "State of Emergency", with each nation taking even more rights away and imposing draconian fiscal policies that will try to strangle and subdue. The pain will be terrible. It's going to get real fucking ugly, and none of the bozos within our democratically run nations have even the slightest of ideas how to transit this culling time. China on the other hand is buying gold as fast as it can. Guess who wants to be running the show after the Great Reset has burned itself out?
The cracks are everywhere to see. PIIGS. The UK and US. Eastern Europe. The Balkans. Most of the Muslim world. Japan. Argentina. Venezuela. There is massive debt, huge unemployment and misery everywhere....and it's all undermined by a 700+ trillion dollar derivatives timebomb that is ticking relentlessly towards detonation. Dom't count on Ben Bernanke, or whoever else, to be there to save the day and snip the red wire and disarm that bomb either. They will be sipping cognac in their bunkers looking through periscopes.
Gang lords or warlords aren't a great improvement over our current overlords, granted, but at least it will result in decentralization. That alone will be good for the economy. The black market economy, any way.
Oh, sure they do. It's called, "Continuity of Government." Note, not "Continuity of the Nation" or "Continuity of the People" - there are no plans for that - just continuity for them.
Somalia had xeer until the disease called the US government interfered.
Xeer, pronounced [?e?r], is the polycentric legal system of Somalia. Under this system, elders serve as judges and help mediate cases using precedents.[1] It is an example of how customary law works within a stateless society and closely resembles the natural law principle.[2]Several scholars have noted that even though Xeer may be centuries old, it has the potential to serve as the legal system of a modern, well-functioning economy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer
@ Zerohead,
No kidding. Why do you suppose our douchebag prez sounded so offended (in his quoted resonse) by a military that would dare to choose the people's desire over the world's dictator and all his reprobate friends??
How big is the egg on Obomba's face in all of this, it's really ridiculous. I mean WTF do we want anyway? Are we not opposing & drone bombing radical Islam wherever it appears (not that I think that's a successful idea). But now Obomba says he's "concerned" that the very secular army got together AFTER the very secular people went to the streets and said a 51% vote for Morsi did NOT justify a transformation to a 14th century fundamentalist Islamic dictatorship?
WTF guys has anyone thought this through for even one tiny little minute?
Let's review the tape: Obomba did everything he could to see the former Mubarak people get elected but the MB won. Then Obomba pressured Morsi to take $4.5 billion in aid because he knew it would immediately turn into an order for $4.5 billion for Lockheed-Martin for bombs and jets, which it did.
Now he's bitching that the secular army and the secular people overthrew a dictator? I mean precisely how is that different from the US toppling Saddam, except that it didn't (yet) result in further $1 trillion in taxpayer funds being transferred to the American War Machine?
Fucking Obomba is well on his way to legendary status as the worst.president.ever. This from a guy who held his nose and voted for McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obomba (once).
This is a military dictatorship with a civilian front. Nothing more, nothing less. Democracy in the proper sense of "senseless mob rule", aided and abetted by an all-powerful but usually hidden and discreet military junta, is what this was.
Democracy in the idiotic neoliberal pablum Hitlary likes to spew, whether of the more or less corrupt variety, this was not.
My sentiments exactly. The people and the army said screw you to foreign military adventures in alliance with one or more like both of Islamic fundamentalists and the Western agenda. I would call a massive demonstration like that a vote of non-confidence according to the British democratic parliamentary process.
Problem is that Morsi has supporters too and their votes may not exactly have been counted ...
So the conclusion seems to be that the world is run by two types of governments, CIA supported and Pentagon supported.
RT @SarcasticTJ Tomorrow's headline: U.S. Funded Egyptian Military Overthrows U.S. Supported Egyptian Government.
This cycle will keep repeating as long as they don't get along with their neighbors. I.e., anytime they piss off Bibi.
Russia says (LOL!):
"This means that democracy does not work as a panacea, especially in countries that are not part of the Western world,"
Yes, there are quite a few agendas on display in the quotes assembled by Tyler.
"Setback" imho is newspeak for "major improvement" in this context.
Enjoy your day hedger bitchez...and most importantly...don't get captured.
Democracy doesn't only apply to Election Day. The People democratically voted him in - and they democratically yanked him out. Just because they made a mistake doesn't mean they have to live with it. That is democracy - the people surely voted - just not on Diebold machines.
It was a Beautiful display of democracy at work. I only wish we were as courageous as the Egyptian people. Democracy is a fraudulent Billionaire's game show here in the US.
Apparently they were supposed to wait for the next election cycle, like good sheeple!
They are not practicing modern dem0cracy (technocracy)
Yet, over here...
Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice... We are shameful
The problem with democracy is apologistic idiots like you will redefine the word 1000 times to suit your needs. Modern fools say democracy is arithmetocracy, pure and simple. Rule by majority. Show me the vote count that proves 51% or more of the Egyptian public was in favor of this.
Oh, there was no election, no vote, no plebiscite, no roll call. It was a mob, enabled by a dictatorial military council. The morons still can't see it.
Do you lie just for the fun of it?
This is why the Founders set up the US to not be a democracy and for the first approx 140 years actually behaved somewhat like its republic design. Then democracy started to seep in in the 1910s and beyond (popular vote for Senators, Federal control seeping into many areas (e.g., education), etc.). It has been pretty much downhill since then.
Historically, democracy was viewed in the US as mob rule - not any more.
Are u serious? U are the fool - as Stalin said he cares not who u vote for, as long as he counts the vote. The definition may change, but the spirit of democracy stays the same, and as Bob mentioned - this country was designed as a republic - Democracy is now used as a tool of deception.
So,u can get your panties in a bunch, but know your are wrong.
... and surprisingly, all of this has led to real democracy as the majority of the Egyptian people get their wish granted
The real losers in this game are the elitist representatives in "representative democracies" or those who have abused the powers granted to them by the people through some sort of election process.
Egypt is an example that representatives need to work for the people, or their cozy self-serving modus operandi will get them placed under house arrest.
I believe it's safe to say this administration is in over its head and in smoking ruins.
Russia is right; savage arabs must be ruled by force, and their rulers must be kept on a short leash at the end of a nuclear armed 7th Fleet
I remember the same being said about the Natives everywhere before colonization.
I remember the Harkonnens thinking that about Atreides & their Weirding Modules...
Take up the White Man's Burden ...
Substitute "muslims" for "arabs".
The Telegraph's Osborne said that the change of government will "make Muslims think that democracy has no room for them".
It is the Nazi-fostered Muslim Brotherhood that has no room for democracy. They had their one man, one vote, one time. Now it was time for an eternal totalitarian theocracy and they showed their true colors. That is why Egyptians of both religions rose up against them.
Osborne tries to blame the ten million Copts, who were headed for slaughter under a theocracy. He sounds like a West End oil money sycophant; lots of them in London.
I was thinking more like sheep or goats, something they could identify with.
Next up Valhallahrie Jar-it broadcasting personal reminder that the good olde UZZA does a wondefrul job with its pets.
Egyptians did not like a future supporting / mingling with the US of A supported Al-CIA-da cannibals in Syria.
Who can blame them??
not an expert but Morsi definitely didn't seem to be a Cairo boy to say the least. i also think the role the Army played...while significant...was obviously a back drop to the Government folks who really were primed and ready to take it too the jihadi's. i fail to see the surprise...and i would not be surprised actually if Egypt "calmed down" actually as the State starts gearing up for more professional expansionism.
"setback for democracy."
LMAO.
Truly is a setback when the citizens demand freedom.
lol.
Yup. Seems that people are deliberately forgetting the millions upon millions [the largest demonstration on earth] of Egyptians who were demanding that the "bait and switch" used on them during the last election was thrown out. The army was executing the wishes of the people. The Egyptians have a rocky road ahead of them. Every tin pot administration is going to want to interfere AGAIN.
Anyone else cringe when Obama uses the words "tranparency" or "human rights"?
The US has had over 200 years to get used to Democracy and elected puppet presidents. Egypt is still in the stage that they believe a democratic government will actually help and support liberty and freedom for their people. What a bunch of unsophisticated dolts.
THIS.
No cringing anymore, I just get right to it and throw up.
My cryging became throwing up, then became ignoring him entirely. It was obvious he was a bait/switch even before the first inauguration.
Here's a clue for next time. When a candidate tries sounding like a preacher, full of the fake emotional voice inflections -- run fast... he is a con artist. When he has one set of promises to win his party primary, and another to win the election... he has no decency or moral character.
Fascism, totalitarianism, militarism, it all rolls onward. From financial engineering and plunder, and now to include military coups...the will of the people continues to be churned under in order to accommodate the will of those who count themselves as chosen.
I have no love for the Muslim Brotherhood, anymore than I have love for the Republicans or the Democrats in the U.S. That is not the point. Instead, we continue to witness the legacy of cronyism, political elitism, and those who generally believe that the ends justify the means.
Well, I have news for you all. There are principles that trump expediency. They include democracy, liberty, freedom, and self-determination. And no matter how many times the "chosen" try to bury these principles...they will rise again and again in the form of bloodshed.
And now...sit back and watch as the U.S. military industrial complex attempts to "color" events in Egypt in such a way as to insure that US strategic interests are preserved there...in the form of forward arms sales, of course. Because we all know that these are more important than...liberty.
God help us all.
Democracy is the opposite of liberty, freedom, and self-determination.
The US is the poster child for that.
Democratic processes can, and do, play an important role within Constitutional Republics.
In other words, democratic processes are certainly useful - even when democracy itself is nothing more than a recipe for tribal and neo-tribal warfare.
The founders got it right, with Federalism; a concept wholly cast aside with the 17th Amendment.
+1 Ancient Romans had a different constitutional method for the same issue, which is simply about monopoly on state powers: sharing power on the first and second elected, with veto power - no co-decision, no power
interestingly the first US President and the first VP were supposed to be chosen in a similar way way, if I reacall correctly - Founding Fathers were big into Latin Classics
the devil behind the 17th is that it marginalizes state congresses from co-share decisions, and so centralizes
often small shifts in constitutions have a long, long tail of consequences
Often, bloviating European imbeciles will try to sound (pseudo)intellectual and (quasi)informed by mentioning and opining (hilariously) on the most irrevelant minutiae conceivable, for the sole purpose of distraction.
What is it? Are you really that pissed off that they got rid of Morsi and the Muzzie Brotherhood. WTF agenda do you have?
I've noticed that some Northern Euros get real freakish about Democracy, like it's some Calvinist principle or something.
Toeten needs to check out de Tocqueville.
The ancient Greek city states voted to toss their democracies at times because they knew the process ages and breaks done.
No Anusocracy, totalitarianism would be the opposite of liberty and freedom.
You could say that it would have been more accurate to use the term Representative Republic while making my point...however, I chose "democracy" for its universality due to the Egyptian context. In either case, I believe the concept of "consent of the governed" applies. Consent of the governed seemed to have occurred in Egypt via free elections...which are now being arbitrarily countermanded through a military coup.
Now...if your point had been that libertarianism is more in line with liberty and freedom, I would not take up the contra point.
If only the Greek military cared as much for the plight of the citizens whose rights it is sworn to protect...
Yes, what happened there? Deeply entrenched in the political corruption themselves, I guess? One of the Papas must have sworn on his life and the lives of his kids and grandkids that the paycheques for the military will continue to be issued in Euros as long as the Euro exists ....
Every military and police force in the world can rest assured that they will be the last of the last to be targeted by any given regime.
Egypt's military knows who butters their bread - it ain't the Muslim Brotherhood and it ain't the Egyptian people. If they seem to be most remarkably independent of their government, YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE WRONG GOVERNMENT.
"The purpose of a system is what it does."
but is a "setback for democracy."
A democracy is the rule of the majority and therefore is the tyranny of the majority. Individual rights mean absolutely nothing in a democracy. It is why the founding fathers of America made it a republic. It is very easy to proclaim a democracy as a great thing because it reflects the will of the people, but in reality, it is only the will of some people.
Incorrect, the founding fathers made the US a confederation. It was the politicians and bureaucrats that forced the US into accepting the establishment of a republic at the behest of the banking and merchant classes.
It's proper that I can only up arrow you once but it's times like this I wish it could be more.
Thanks.
Good point. And, the Framers of the Constitution created this "Republic" behind closed doors. They set an example for future generations on how to be sneaky and secretive. It's no different from what politicians do today.
Behind closed doors? Ever hear of the Federalist Papers that led to the creation of our Constitution and Republic? Where the fuck did you go to school?
The Federalist Papers were published after the Constitution was adopted, which was on September 17th, 1787.
In 1787 the Constitution was still being drafted and in the process of being ratified and amended. It didn't even include a Bill of Rights until 1791. The Federalist papers were written to defend, explain and promote its ratification. It wasn't done in secret like you say and the framers are not villains asswipe. What's your beef? It's not to you liking and they should have conferred with you first.
Are you talking about the British Colonies that existed here before the American revolution? Because the confederacy was set up in 1861, almost 100 years later. Please explain.
He's talking about the Articles of Confederation (q.v.).
There's no way a new Nation would have remained united for long as a group of 13 sovereign states. So the framers settled on a partly national, partly federal Constitution.
"There's no way a new Nation would have remained united for long as a group of 13 sovereign states."
AND YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? Oh, I guess states' rights are only relevant when thoroughly subordinated to a strong central federal government in which context they are simply a bad joke. You Constitution-worshipping shills are all the same. You can't see just how stupid, naïve, and hypocritical you sound.
So the framers instigated a SECOND coup against the colonies (now states) and laid the framework for the nightmare we have today. Oh, bravo, really, bravo. The worst thing that ever happened to America: the Federalists and their tyrannical Constitution.
You have been brainwashed by the most successful propaganda campaign in this continent's history. Congratulations, Federalist Quisling.
I disagree. The worst thing that happened to America was the progressive movement and their creation of The FED in 1913. States rights and seperation of powers are in the Constitution, but the modern neolibs and neocons disregard this and continue to grow and empower the federal government. We've become a facist state only because of our disregard for the Constitution which was created to explicitly limit Government power and prevent tyranny.
The Constitution w/o the bogus 20th century amendments would be a huge improvement to what we have now.
Confederation: you join, you share, you can leave. Often you keep your army, you definitely keep your tax-rights and treasury. Often shared currency and fleet
examples: Switzerland
Federation is tighter, and leaving is less easy
examples: Austria, Germany, Belgium
an unitary, centralized Nation-State is the tightest form
examples: France, Italy, Portugal
All governments are just the will of some people.
There is no way you can change that and still have government.
People that don't know even basic history should keep their opinions to themselves.
That would be you. The fact, that no government ever is the will of all the people, is absolutely correct.
That makes zero sense.
to smart people it makes perfect sense - history confirms.
Whatever government you want, there will always be others that don't want it.
What doesn't make sense is wanting government because however small it is, the forces of nature will cause it to grow.
One biological form stealing resources (and the ability to prosper) from another biological form is smiled upon by nature.
In the West, at least, government generally arises from the ideas and institutions best articulated in The Second Treatise of Government.
Of course, those ideas and institutions have degenerated at an increasingly accelerating rate, mainly due to the odd notions conjured up by Karl Marx and still worshiped within the ivory towers of detached academics and urban intellectuals.
"In the West, at least, government generally arises from the ideas and institutions best articulated in The Second Treatise of Government."
Statists bitterly clinging to their sacred myths.
"It was the politicians and bureaucrats that forced the US into accepting the establishment of a republic at the behest of the banking and merchant classes."
Please explain your version of exactly how that went down. You almost make it sound like the founders weren't, by definition, politicians and bureaucrats, as well as members of the merchant classes (I'd just call them aristocrats, which is what they were, with a few notable exceptions). There is never a meaningful distinction between these groups, they all serve the same god: power, via the state.
incorrect. The voice of the individual can only be made in a democracy. By all other means it is silenced.
Democracy is mob rule clod.
communist marxist socialist and islamist are all upset about this. What does that say about the world we live in
only because the Criminalists don't fucking care, let them eat air
Technically he should have been impeached or recalled....make no difference to me
Of course, 8,000 years of minding their own business doesn't mean shit.
No offense to our military persons, but imagine a day when the military stands behind the people they "protect", and not just to give a double tap. /just saying.
The oath is to the Constitution.
Despite desperate attempts, from within, to change the oath to be to the "government".
I wish that was possible let alone true.
The need for an inclusive and transparent process......says Obama.....hahahahaha
Maybe he could teach Egypt how to run a secret court whose rulings, in secret of course, effect the lives of millions regardless of which country they reside in.
Yes, this is a serious setback.
For David Rockefeller.
memo to Seize Mars: DRock's most likely got his greasy scaly hands in both sides of the pool. that's what makes DRock DRock.
the more folks see the chess board in only two dimensions, the more the greedy fuckers that see in 3+ manipulate the pieces to their own advantage (at the expense of the rest of us 7B+ "pawns") every single time.
recommend John Carter from Mars for further reference. cheesy movie, but with very deep subtle undertones that touch on this.
The major lesson of the 20th century, don't start a war if you don't control/finance both sides.
I.E. the major players behind WWI controlled both sides, as in WWII. Vietnam, Korea, etc were asymmetric, so the same need for control prior to conflict was unnecessary.
Hey...What's good for M&M Enterprises.....
When it's important.....You have to lie?
Criminal activity is inherently dishonest.
A lie.
Government is a criminal activity.
I read an article (regrettably) from The Atlantic the other day. It was a black author discussing an eviction he witnessed/took part in. He commented on the evictee's use of 'threats' and how violence was the last resort of someone desperate and powerless.
HELLO! YOU USED FORCE TO EVICT THE BASTARD.
So funny when people do not realize government is the legalized use of force.
or as my very old Italian buddy always says .. government is the legalized mafia
OT: No matter what you think of Russians and Russian jet pilots this is just simply ubercool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85948tHJD1s
how's this for democracy (lessons from the past):
237 years ago, a group of freedom fighters decided to say f--k you to a British king and build a new independent nation-state, which without the aid of the French, USA’s evolution as we know it, in all likelihood, wouldn’t exist. As a consequence of the support that sealed American independence, the French monarchy went heavily into debt, which sowed the seeds for a harvest of another group freedom fighters.
That Osborne is a 'roid... and a fool... Morsi, like our own islamist... promised the moon, all sweetness and light.. until he got in and then, like our own islamist fraud, reneged on all promises and tried to become a dictator... crapped on the Egyptian Constitution... re-wrote it, tried to take all power to himself. When that happens, it is the duty of those who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and the PEOPLE... to topple the asshole.... I mean assholes.
Let's keep the unmentionables on the table:
1. Barry Sotoro & Co. were staunch supporters of Muuuuursi and the Muslim Brotherhood.
2. Huma Abedin Weiner (HAW), wife of Anthony Weiner of Twitter fame, was a long-time aid and Chief of Staff to SECSTATE Hillary Clinton. HAW worked directly for Abdullah Omar Nasseef, a known "financier" of terrorism and Muslim Brotherhood member, until taking her position with SECSTATE Clinton. HAW's family also has very close ties with Yusuf Qaradawi, widely seen as the "spiritual head" of the Muslim Brotherhood.
3. Ayman al Zawahiri, current #1 of al Qaeda, is an Egyptian and has been a member of the Muslim Brotherhood since age 14. Early in his tenure (oneure), Muuuuursi promised to smuggle Zawahiri into Egypt from whatever shithole he was living in at the time (believed to be somewhere in AF/PAK).
The overthrow of Muuuursi and subsequent arrest of so many Muslim Brotherhood members throws a MASSIVE wrench into the murky Sotoro plans and policy.
He (and others) must be pissed livid about this point.
As this all goes forward, just keep asking yourself how Barry Sotoro and Hillary fit into the picture.
Something stinks bad about all of this.
I struggle over what to "think".
The smell though is inescapable. One might even say intuitively something of a two x four upside the head?
"Stinks like a ------?"
Well put DW.
Democracy is Tyranny if those elected ignore The Constitution and the Rule-Of-Law in the name of safety, security, or expediency.
The very goal of a "progressive democracy", such as that imposed through the 16th and 17th amendments, is the legitimization of counter-constitutional, tyrannical centralized power under the guise of "democracy".
A tyranny of the ignorant, so to speak. Enforced by mob rule. Counched as "democracy".
Stuart Chase imported much of the roadmap from Italy and Germany, during FDR's reign:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Chase#Free_Enterprise_into_.27X.27.5...
Egypt is fucked however you slice it. 80 miilion people, little arable land, declining oil production.
If they are good to the tourists they can do alright for themselves.
Argentina only has 40 million people and a tremendous amount of natural resources yet they're economically fucked. So it's not the amount of resources but the type of Government.
Not for long. No accessible oil wells = you're fucked, regardless of government.
Quit yer bitchin. The Neanderthals had it even worse,
No TV even.
Notes from a cliff-side rock: This isn't the Special Olympics, you don't get a medal for participation[1]. You get a medal if you make it work.
The 20th Century was a hundred years where Ideology ran rampant - and it merely added cream to an already heady brew of 19th Century (Capitalism / Socialism etc) ones not to mention the long, boring path back to the Pyramids of Monotheism > all other Religions (at least, in the ME / West).
The pro side and the con side are a massive jumble of variously outdated ideological urges all blind to the fact they're all the same damn impulse, expressed differently. And, if you wanted a list of causation to all of this, it's a long list; from the Sovereign interests of the EU, Russia, America, Israel (Sinai - where the USA supported the military for re-militarization against Israeli concerns, if you're interested) and Sudan and the African nations we never hear about; the Religious mess out there - Coptic, Shi'ite, Jewish and on and on and on; the economic mess from the IMF loans requiring austerity, local businesses going under, multinational Corporations selling tourism worrying about the bottom line, the stock market & currency supply crashing / over-heating, wheat prices traders in the USA and so on to the environmental issues of falling agricultural output to water rights to pollution to all of these issues combining into a massive shit sandwich. And this is a list of thinking about it for under 5 minutes.
Oh, and if you missed it - GRED June 2013, threats of war by Mursi / Morsi. (And that piece has an interesting flavor - Harry Verhoeven completed a doctorate at the University of Oxford, where he teaches African politics. His research focuses on conflict, development and environment in the Horn of Africa and the Great Lakes Region, and he is the Convenor of the Oxford University China-Africa Network (OUCAN)).
But anyhow: 33,000,000 people out of 80 odd million (if we can believe the figures) is a fairly good indication shit ain't working. The only interesting question is if it can be fixed, and fast. Bring on the Porn Fairies.
[1]Please note, I'm using this not to denigrate the hard, disciplined athletes who participate in the Paralympics, but the lazy mind-set who makes that kind of joke.
missed it, but it seems synchronicity strikes again
33,000,000 stones could make a bunch of nice earth dams (note the plural), yes?
"If Egypt is the Nile's gift, then the Nile is a gift to Egypt…"
ah yes, the question is from whom? wonder how a drunken Zawi Hawass would answer that question? or Chuck D for that matter.
p.s. re: fairies -- Man, I really need some shrooms.
"You Americans have killed a lot of sand. The sand was very evil."
I just dig the 33 part.
I like three.
I should have sourced that: it was from The Atlantic Wire.
Your Icon of the Day.
I'm fairly sure it was clear, but there we go. Can't say this wasn't a positive vibe moment, despite all the baggage.
love that copter
think it was photoshopped in?
don't step over the ledge 'rora ;-)
Around the World Blueprint with extreme austerity for the 1% with the resultant transfer of wealth into engineering and agriculture and science creating education and jobs for the youth!
This is a happy 4th of July... Obama's boy in Egypt is out on his ass.
Let's all hope this is shades of things to come.
"It is unacceptable for a government, which has come to power through democratic elections, to be toppled through illicit means"
No this was not Alex Jones that said this but Erdogan (a Turkey dude).
I swear to God..."Turkey dude"? If we actually have "turkey dudes" running around out there then that means my dream was real and so that means I'm actually crazy.
FUCK!
In the 90's I played a computer game where one got to control different humanoid races, helping them evolve and co-exist, acting as a political advisor. One of the races resembled wasps. Monarchy was their social order with the queen in charge. Another race was fish-like. When fish people established democracy, wasp people found out about it and got curious. Inspired by the promise of equal rights, they staged a revolution and killed the queen. Within a generation they were extinct because they couldn't reproduce.
How pitiful that you experience and understand the world through video games. Why our youth today is so dysfunctional.
LOL, yeah its video games fault, not sociopaths and institutionalized fraud... Right...
There's a lot of good learning in some video games... Not all but some good folk are behind some great work
Also public schools aren't going to push your brain and a kid won't know what books to grab from a library on his own anyway
Same with tv and movies..just clouded by lots of shit but plenty of gems to be found
@Julia. I know which game you are talking about... If I google a bit I'd find it
The game is Millenia: Altered Destinies.
It was quite philosophical. It illustrated that there was no template solution to all problems - that environments and social backgrounds had to be taken into consideration when detemining policy.
I say it's a good lesson to learn, regardless if it comes from a book, a newspaper, a video or... from our failed attempts to set up puppet democracies around the globe.
Meanwhile in America
Total enslavement is celebrated
http://www.clevescene.com/binary/22fc/1372703053-lakewoodparkrules.jpg
What do Americans celebrate on the Fourth of July again?
For the 99%, it's beer and bar-b-que. Baaah, baaaaah.
At least people in some countries have the guts to kick out non performing and incompetent governments unlike the zombie citizens of the so called developed countries that go about their lives ignoring their governments illegal actions of taking away their civil liberties by spying on all their activities, letting their countries drown in debt and letting big businesses and banks dictate the rules and regulation by which the majority of the citizens have to live.
llusion of Democracy today.
People sponsored by the rich, make false promises to the masses to get elected. Distribute national wealth amongst themselves and their sponsors (Industrialists) and when that is not enough borrow money from rest of the world and continue the distribution process. The borrowed money has to be paid back by taxing the masses keeping in mind that tax rules are made such that the politicians and their sponsors pay minimum or no taxes.
End of political tenure, rinse and repeat till the whole system breaks down and the world wealth is cornered by a minuscule of the population.
Having deprived a majority of the population of their wealth and the means to earn a living, the politicians need unlimited access to the military to control the probability of a revolt by the victims of their crimes.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40231.html
When the people turn out and remove the authors of their misrule i t is indeed a setback. But not for democracy.
I'll bet the US is not too "deeply concerned" about this:
Egypt launches crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood after Morsi's ouster
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/04/19280068-egypt-launches-crackdown-on-muslim-brotherhood-after-morsis-ouster?lite
Then one should ask who has the greatest influence on the Egyptian military and who, therefore, had the greatest influence in Egypt before the "Arab Spring" and the greatest influence now and that would be the US. Therefore, I think the US is only "deeply concerned" that the CIA operation probably in progress gets them a more US and Israel friendly leader in charge after it's all over.
Also:
Analysis: US billions prop up military that toppled Egypt's elected president
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/04/19283700-analysis-us-billions-prop-up-military-that-toppled-egypts-elected-president?lite
Quite so, except Mursi was just a puppet, he was plenty friendly to Israel and US. The only ones who haven't been absurdly friendly to Israel and the US were Saddam (eventually) and Ahmedinejad. The rest know Gaddafi was an "example", and stay in line.
If I missed this point in the previous comments - my apology in advance.
The US has been sending F-16's, tanks and munitions, in quantity, to Egypt - this year.
I believe these arms were destined for the Syrian rebels whom Morsi had decided to back with the Egyptian military in a speach last week.
The army said no- hell no- no foreign excursions. We get a military coup this week as a result.
This is a major setback for the US goal of support for the Syrian rebels.
It's just awful when some people actually think for themselves as opposed to letting others think for them ... just awful when you're a Pentagon strategist or cental intelligence analyst ...
Aid to Egypt came with strings attached. That's why they're so quick now to discuss whether or not this aid will continue to flow...
Precisely.
Anyone who thinks we'd be sending military hardware to a neighbor of Israel without some pretty fucking strong reasons to believe it won't be used on Israel is a twit. Why is Hezbollah a terrorist organization while the FSA is not? Why do we arm one and condemn the other? Hint: it has nothing to do with the fact that both are Islamic fundamentalist terrrrrrrrrrist groups. Answer: One has attacked Israel.
www.dailystar.com.lb/
nav bar: News
goto: Local news [Lebanon], ME, and Int'l
great site... jmo
The will of the people, what do you not you understand muthafuckers!?
Democratic government:
1. Make 2 parties that do the the exact same policies except polarizing, but ultimately unimportant issues (gay rights, abortion).
2. Make both parties the puppets of big corporations and big banks.
3. Make a good, dramatic showbusiness.
4. Define any other contender as unelectable and extreme.
You are describing the "Western style DEmocracies" where they make rules that are exempting themselves from all the theft and all other shenaningans. To favour their Bankster bosses. Greece, USA and Italy first come to mind, not wanting to leave others out.
that's corruption, plain and simple
a rotten apple does not spoil immediately all apples, forever
true, a diseased apple tree can once again bear productive fruit, but it might take a generation of very skillful methods to bring it back. and a willingness to accept that it may never bear fruit again despite your efforts.
Fun fact: all commercial apple trees now propagate via grafting. The really fun thing about the apple genome is that it doesn't breed true, and it has one of the largest variances of all fruits in terms of taste, texture, acidity and so on. Although it's cultivated as a virtual monoculture, this is actually the diametrical opposite of its natural expression.
Worth a look, it might be a fun analogy. Malus Domestica are extreme heterozygotes.
diametrical opposite of its natural expression.
indeed, my dear. did you know the Empire State used to have the highest diversity of varieties in the world? now it's down to about a half dozen, and there are no organically grown (even in the cheesy sense) apples in NY? why is that? the need for pesticides, due to grafted monocultures, perhaps? enquiring minds wanna know...
The apple is the pomaceous fruit of the apple tree, Malus domestica in the rose family.
once you realize that apples are a rose (r a rose), it all makes perfect sense. where's gookempucky when you need him? he was the master of roses, wild thangs they are.
as for the pesticides, the way they used to do it in the old days is grow lotsa fennel within the dripline. (a fennel a day keeps the bugs away...) that and grow lotsa different varieties in a patch, along with peaches & pear & pecans, etc.
If weakness were the only effect of the mutant allele, so it conveyed only disadvantages, natural selection would weed out this version of the gene until it became extinct from the population. However, the same mutation also conveyed advantages, providing improved viability for heterozygous individuals.
exactly. so let your freak flag fly...it's all good...
...and might I add "they" are scared shitless that what happened in Egypt will start to spill over into other nations where tyranny has taken over. The rats are freaking out, damage/spin control time, sorry but it's too late assholes. The world is awaking from their slumber with eyes open.