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Is The Low In Place For Gold?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Citi's FX Technicals group is biased to believe that the low in this correction may have been posted for Gold. Here's why...

 

Via Citi FX Technicals,

Gold

Two years ago gold bugs ran wild as the price of gold rose nearly six times. But since cresting two years ago it has steadily declined, almost by half, putting the gold bugs in flight. The most recent advisory from a leading Wall Street firm suggests that the price will continue to drift downward, and may ultimately settle 40% below current levels.

 

The rout says a lot about consumer confidence in the worldwide recovery. The sharply reduced rates of inflation combined with resurgence of other, more economically productive investments, such as stocks, real estate, and bank savings have combined to eliminate gold's allure.

 

Although the American economy has reduced its rapid rate of recovery, it is still on a firm expansionary course. The fear that dominated two years ago has largely vanished, replaced by a recovery that has turned the gold speculators' dreams into a nightmare.

The above note is probably a close representation of consensus market view at the moment, except that it is taken from an article in the… New York Times, 29 August 1976 (3 days after the corrective low had been posted in 1975-1976 before Gold started a 3 year rally into late 1979/early 1980)

Long-term Gold Chart

Between 1973 and 1974 the DJIA fell 45%. As the Equity market then recovered Gold went into a corrective phase within 3 months that saw it fall 445 as the Equity market rallied.

This time around gold has in fact been much more resilient.
– It did not peak until Sept 2011 ( 2 ½ years after the Equity market bottomed out)
– It has so far corrected 39% with an Equity market that has rallied 140% off the March 2009 low (DJIA). In 1975-1976 it corrected 44% as the equity market rallied 76%

In 1976 the Gold correction ended in August and the Equity market began a deep correction in September (27% over 18 months). During that period Gold rallied by about 78% and over the 1976-1980 period it multiplied in value by a factor of 8 from just over $100 to over $800. The final part of that rally saw Gold rise from about $470 to $850 over about 4 weeks on the back of the USSR invasion of Afghanistan. Even without that move it still multiplied by about 4.5 times in just over 3 years.

So what are we looking at to increase the likelihood of the “low being in”?

In addition daily momentum is turning up from more oversold levels than those seen before the $270 bounce in 2012. On a daily chart this is the most oversold we have seen since the turn higher in Gold in 2001.

In addition it has become very stretched to the 55 and 200 day moving averages which now have a big gap between them

An important thing to note is that Gold broke its support level the same week as the S&P broke above its 2007 high. As long as the equity market stays resilient (As we saw in 1975-1976) it may be a drag on Gold’s ability to rally substantially. In the 1980-2000 period when financial assets were aggressively rallying, Gold took a back seat. We may need the market to be more concerned about the financial/economic backdrop before Gold can get any real traction again.

The pattern into the low on Gold also reminds us of how the S&P set its low in March 2009

Once the first impulsive low at 741 was regained by the S&P it never revisited it.

A close above $1,322 on Gold, if seen, would look similar

In 1976 the move lower in Gold overshot the 55 month moving average by about 14%

A similar move this time would equate to about $1,185 compared to a low so far of $1,181

The 55 month moving average stands at $1,379

The 200 week moving average stands at $1,459

IF and when we start to overcome these levels from $1,322 to $1,459 our conviction of a bottom being in place will grow. While we remain below these levels (especially if the Equity market continues to remain robust) we cannot rule out the danger that we could get another move lower.  

In that respect we would remain focused on the 1975-1976 correction which if replicated could suggest as low as $1,075

 

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Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:01 | 3725455 Martdin
Martdin's picture

We won't see any meaningful rallies if the dollar keeps strengthening, in my opinion.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:12 | 3725471 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/elderly-couple-evicted-in-ajax-to-make-way-for...

Tony Kapostins, 90, and his wife, Gaida, 88 forcibly removed from house they lived in for 50 years near Toronto, Canada to make room for toll road.

 A sheriff backed by Durham Police officers delivered an eviction notice Friday to an elderly couple whose Ajax home stands in the way of a planned expansion to Highway 407.

More than two years ago, Ontario’s Ministry of Transportation expropriated a half acre of the couple’s 13-acre property to make way for the construction of an interchange at Lake Ridge Rd. and Highway 401.

The land the MTO expropriated included the home belonging to Tony Kapostins, 90, and his wife, Gaida, 88, who have lived there for 50 years.

 The couple refused to leave, as Tony Kapostins demanded $9 million in compensation for his home. The MTO offered more than $600,000 in compensation plus moving expenses, which Tony did not accept.

On Friday, the sheriff delivered a Superior Court warrant ordering the couple out of the house.

“This has been going on way too long,” an officer could be heard saying inside the home. “They just can't wait any longer and today's the day.”

But Tony Kapostins refused to budge.

“If you want to take me out without paying me $9 million, you shoot me here,” he told officers.

The couple’s son, Greg, explained that his ailing parents “want to live their last few days on the property.”

But construction on the interchange has already begun nearby and the MTO needs to tear down the house to continue the work.

“They have a home for you guys, a beautiful bungalow house,” said the officer. “Everything’s covered, but you have to leave.”

As discussions between the MTO and the couple carried on throughout the day, work crews set up fencing around the home in anticipation of its demolition. The couple was also told they would be issued a trespassing notice if they would not leave.

“Unfortunately this land isn’t yours anymore, so you have to leave one way or another,” an officer said.

After five hours, the couple complied with the eviction order. They were taken by ambulance to a nearby hospital to ensure they were fine after the day-long ordeal.

The couple will be allowed back into the home to retrieve their personal belongings.

The couple has been given a new home in Pickering. However, Greg Kapostins said the home is farther away from the hospital his father is receiving cancer treatment at in Ajax.

The toll road is controlled by
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?p...

The person who is the governor of Ontario Canada is Kathleen Wynne
(she is a good person and can help please contact her)

kwynne.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:13 | 3725481 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

EVERYONE knows the low is NOT in.......buyers waiting will continue to wait.....uneducated newbies that held out will sell early as it rises.......only physical holders will survive.....remember......EVERYONE knows its going to sub1000

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:17 | 3725495 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Last week's analysis from citis crack team didnt play out so now posting shittybank's new call....from the 70s?

What does JPM (circa 1976) have to say about all this?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:18 | 3725501 Spider
Spider's picture

We need to take back this country and the only way we can do it is through PM's - we are slaves to the banksters right now but we do have the means to free ourselves.

Together we can break the silver market and break the banksters - if you're interested check out the "Silver Pledge" and join us:

http://www.communitysynergy.com/subscribe/silver_pledge_subscribe.html

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:23 | 3725513 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Marc Faber is still buying...he has roughly a permanent 25% allocation, I think.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/07/marc-faber-on-gold-and-asset-defla...

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:04 | 3725622 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Everyone knows TA is pointless, hence the 5 hindenburg signals.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:53 | 3725775 cifo
cifo's picture

Who's Citi trying to fool?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:59 | 3725789 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

+ 1 for you here, cifo.

It does not matter what Citi says or what the TA people say.  It is my guess (based on other people's opinions) that technical analysis at this point will not work for gold.  A friend from a while back said he could never get gold charts to "speak" to him anyway, and this was some years ago.  And technical analysis has never been demonstrated to me to actually work.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 07:08 | 3726020 FranSix
FranSix's picture

$GOLD Weekly

With an $1179/oz. low, gold prices have now at least confirmed a '4' wave of a Wave One extension.  What that should mean is any comparison of the One Wave extension with a prior Five Wave extension is probably false.  Expectations for a multiples of return such as in the '70's are unfounded.  Returns will probably be confined within an elliot wave paradigm.

http://scharts.co/19Z24MI

The correction we are going through is called a Volatility Smile.  A Volatility Smile is the functioning basis for a long/short derivative strategy. This position is 'in-the-money' as long as trades are maintained below the top blue line in the above chart.  One variable that did not enter into the calculation is that people are buying into the price correction rather than selling.  The simple truth is that the bull market will continue.

http://ectrie.nl/met/pdf/MET11-2-6.pdf

 

-F6

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 07:47 | 3726046 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

It doesn't matter if the low is in. Gold is the only thing of real value left.

 

You either own it now....or you're playing Russian Roulette.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:05 | 3726065 Marco
Marco's picture

Power is the only thing of real value ... everything else can be taxed away, including gold.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:30 | 3726105 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Germany has a lot of power.....but they can't get their gold back.

 

Gold could go to $35/oz and they still wouldn't get it back....what does that tell you about the real value of gold?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 09:17 | 3726166 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:34 | 3726111 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Speaking of power, that's where lead comes in....

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 09:54 | 3726206 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Who was it, that makes the rules?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:23 | 3727338 GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

Rules come from people with power, and I heard somewhere that power eminates from the end of a gun ... in some small form(s) of lead.  I claim if I have enough lead and the ability to deliver it effectively, I can acquire all the gold I want; the question then simply becomes how much is `enough`.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 10:56 | 3728095 uhb
uhb's picture

rules come out of gun barrels ;)

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:19 | 3725496 Spider
Spider's picture

has gold now become contrarian again?  Hmmm I sure think so...

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:20 | 3725504 IPA
IPA's picture

Until it doesn't 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:27 | 3725529 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

@ kliguy38 "EVERYONE knows its going to sub1000"

I don't know that.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:50 | 3725687 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

+1 SM.

kliguy38 is sounding like a scared sheeple looking for someone to validate the tip he got to invest big in GLD puts. 

My buying behavior is the same as it was the last time we went through $1,200, which is the same as it was when it was $1,800.  Because in the final analysis, the only thing that will matter is the weight of my gold holdings, not the price.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:02 | 3725797 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, that's right, the number of ounces you can accumulate with your fiat, until fiat will no longer buy gold.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:06 | 3726067 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Or until you can "buy" it but Comex can't deliver it.  (The proverbial difference without a distinction).

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:24 | 3725516 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

...And the same move, from 76 to 80, an 8 fold move in gold, would put us at about 9,770$, or to be conservative at 7,000$ gold, and beside the fact tha this seem reasonable, we still need the ignition to sparkle the next gold bull rally.

 

 http://zysites.com/silververitas/

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:18 | 3725728 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

don't worry, the spark is gonna come. may even be the failure of the London Metals Exchange in the next couple of weeks. 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:38 | 3725543 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

if it happens in Canada does it really matter?  Canada used to be alright before they turned into mouthy fuckers like that Israeli boot-licker Harper.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:32 | 3725756 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

About what I would expect from them- in the old days, this was called "stealing." This shitty company puts up a toll road that doesn't tell you what the toll is. No toll booths, no people, just cameras. I know- I got a bill for about 50 bucks like a year after I drove the damned road. The bill included the threat that they would have my driver license suspended if I didn't pay it. Even though I do not live in nor am a citizen of Canada. First and only bill I got from them. Nice to see they treat there fellow countrymen the same. Somehow, I expected more from Canada. What happened to common decency or morals?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:05 | 3725806 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

+ 1

An interesting tale.  We just came back form Canada, and thought it was a wonderful place (ex. weather), courteous people and all.  I guess not, we're all under watch and the boot now.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:18 | 3725927 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Don't paint any country with too broad a brush.  There are some very fine people in North America.  You just have to look outside the cities, by and large.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:40 | 3725949 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Good point.  There are fine people and jerks everywhere.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 07:30 | 3726031 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> You just have to look outside the cities,

Isn't that in itself painting with a broad brush?  I'm fairly sure fine people exist no matter what the population density..

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 12:06 | 3726374 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

How uncomfortable was the anal search upon re-entering the USSR?

You are lucky you were not shot and killed by a state thug, IMO.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 04:43 | 3725986 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Tony Kapostins, 90, and his wife, Gaida, 88 learned that the GovT held allodial title on the house they lived in for 50 years near Toronto, Canada to make room for a toll road, due to eminent domain.

 

Only GovTs can hold allodial title to real estate. 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 10:40 | 3726244 Doowleb
Doowleb's picture

"The person who is the governor of Ontario Canada is Kathleen Wynne 
(she is a good person and can help please contact her)"

WOW...She's a good person?

Current unelected Premier of the Ontario economic destruction team called the Liberals.

First openly gay woman premier who was previously the minister of Education. The ministry that feels teaching grade two kids about homosexual sex is good governance.

Was deeply involved in just one of the many scandals involving billions of taxpayer dollars. Signed off on relocating two gas plants during the last election in order to curry favour with the leftists in two ridings. This allowed them to hold the two elected seats but cost the Ontario taxpayer well north of half a billion dollars. How many elderly residents had to eat cat food in order to afford their electric bills so her party could keep power?

She may be a good person at home, but her leftist policies are wreaking havoc to the good peoples of Ontario.

 


Sun, 07/07/2013 - 16:26 | 3728761 Enemy101
Enemy101's picture

In Canada, the Crown owns the land, and you purchase Freehold use of that land, but do not truly own it. this prevents strange situations where people demand extortionary rates for way-out-there farmland because they know the government needs to build infrastructure (as can be seen with a 600k market value being extorted for 10 million, 9 million, whatever). Works well in this and many other cases.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:46 | 3725678 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

We won't see any meaningful rallies if the dollar keeps strengthening, in my opinion.

 

You sound like Lady Tremaine with the "if"...conditional prognostications are not worth the keystrokes.

Of course gold is going to weaken if the dollar keeps strengthening, as gold is kryptonite to all fiat currencies (whose fate is sealed, btw).  But that is not the relevant issue.  What's relevant is whether the dollar can keep strengthening when 85 billion of them per month are being injected into the system with no attendant increase in the base of physical goods production.  Anyone who understands math at a 3rd grade level knows that it is an impossibility.  And so the dollar will ultimately lose out to the gravitational pull of its own printing press.

All of the gold monkey-hammering and meme-repeating is to me a blinking red light of CB desperation.  I don't know how long they can keep the orchestra playing, but I can wait them out...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 07:11 | 3726022 Martdin
Martdin's picture

Don't get me wrong, long term(I'm talking decades) I am bullish on the price of gold, but it's THIS chart that worries me in the short term.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:05 | 3726066 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

If you are worried about the price of gold - or GLD, rather - in the short-term, you ought to check your rationale for holding it at all.  I am holding gold as part of my portfolio of protection against debasement of fiat.  As such, the LAST thing I worry about is how much more or less fiat it is worth on any given day.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 12:04 | 3726370 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Man, do not buy PMs if you are not going to hold them at least 5 years! At least!

Do NOT let go of them unless you have acatastrophic emergency!

I would even consider robbing a likker store before I sold mine.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:00 | 3726059 Lets Buy The Dip
Lets Buy The Dip's picture

Well I can sure see your point....however - Weekly DOW chart looks amazingly good ==> http://bit.ly/14TRH9G

It seems dips in todays economy are nothing more than opportunities for funds and traders to get their asses LONG. 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 09:38 | 3726185 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

You could also debate, "Is the low in for AAPL?" After all, I read it was the mostly widely held (and loved) stock by hedge funds and big pension plans...and it has plunged 40%.

 

How about oracle?

Blackberry?

 

Each stock, company, commodity is different so you need to look at different issues and ask, "What are the fundamentals?" For the yellow metal, has the Fed stopped pritning? What will happen with over $115 trillion in unfunded liabilities of the US Gubmint as Kotlikoff asks in hi sbook? How about the $400 trillion in global derivatives?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 13:42 | 3726522 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

It's difficult for gold perma-bulls to accept even the smallest heresy.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:46 | 3726825 Redneck Hippy
Redneck Hippy's picture

Interest rates going up.  Dollar going up.  Gold pri  ced in dollars is going down, false correlations with old S&P charts notwithstanding.  Get a grip gold bugs.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:07 | 3725464 q99x2
q99x2's picture

It is in or nearly in. But if gold crashes the world economy because no more is available then no it is not in.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:10 | 3725473 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I really think this time is different. But maybe I am deluded. I see interest rates and crude oil breaking the back of everything again. The difference is I don't see people running for an etf tied to the thing they want. They will just go looking for the thing they want. Put that scenario alongside a bank going under and getting "bailed in" and you have the perfect storm.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:53 | 3725692 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Fonz - you are on the mark.  The things that move the needle fastest are bond yields and oil prices.  Both are becoming nightmares for the CBs.  I view the gold monkey-hammering as some very smart people giving themselves a discount on their harvest of the phyzz.  Unfortunately for them, I have nothing to offer, as all of my bullion was lost in a...well, you know the rest.  ;)

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:25 | 3725940 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

With the decline in silver and gold prices, I admit, my first EMOTION (which I don't trade or invest on, ever) was worry.

I've used most of the dry powder at this point.  But it made me think.  How massive are the losses for the guys who are holding interest rate swaps?  How massive the bond losses have been (esp. relative to the losses one would expect w/ bonds), what is coming for the stock and real estate markets (and MBS), and the USD....

Play for the end game.  Don't sweat the small stuff.  Gold is insurance, and silver is a highly useful industrial metal w/ very little in the way of above-ground stocks.  That hasn't changed.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:59 | 3726363 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Oil hikes, what a fucking ripoff.

Why? Because of Egypt and the Suez?

The US Military is AT the Suez Canal right now, disguised as MPs to help control riots. There will be no closure of the Canal.

Oil Price Ripoff!

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:27 | 3725527 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Physical Gold will never "crash", it will find it's real worth when the manipulators can't control it because they no longer own it.  When you live in a unicorn world of socialist make believe, the only things that have any worth are things which are naturally limited.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:29 | 3725534 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

in what year??  3087? after it is uncovered after the nuclear fallout by bees?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:35 | 3725549 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Fear, I have none? The truth shall set us free.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:00 | 3725599 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture
  1. Can I get a good argument from a statist that I can respond to?
Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:01 | 3725617 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I doubt it.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:55 | 3725693 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

A good argument from a statist is a contradiction in terms.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:55 | 3725777 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

These arrows down are funny. Do statists know they are statists and thus defend the position?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 05:09 | 3725990 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Part of being a statist requires you to believe that government is the action of the people, so they can see no wrong in the arrangement. They do not see themselves as statists, but as "civilized" humans.

 

Dare I say that the Germans were more civilized than the Romans. It's not like the Germans started out running around sacking cities in the name of Germania before the Legions marched on them.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 15:40 | 3726729 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Looks like you got a few extra down arrows just for pointing out the situation, Missy.  See what happens to whistle blowers?   Oh, the humanity!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:00 | 3725791 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Who cares what year?  Paper longs?  Fuck those guys, they should have known better after MF Global.  People who used credit cards to buy?  Fuck them too.  They can default on them like everyone else.  People who only started buying in the last couple of years?  All they have to do is hold.

The reset was never going to be easy.  The path is simple and straightforward, but the temptations to leave the path are such that only a few will make it to the other side.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:13 | 3725819 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Right on several points, tmosley.  MF Global and Cyprus should have been enough to warn everyone with a brain that an ill wind blows this way...

I (maybe?) disagree re credit cards.  All just debts should be honored (paid).  That was in my grandfather's will.  IMO, very few should default on their debts because it is convenient.

Staying on the path is simple: the more ounces you have, the more prepared you are, the better.  But simple <> easy, I have learned that just in the past months...

Excellent post, I have learned from you, Mr. Mosley.  For me, that is a pretty good compliment.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:53 | 3725864 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They get back exactly what they gave, with an arbitrary multiplier.  Remember, credit cards work by creating money out of nothing, not by lending out people's savings.  I don't know anyone who banks with JCPenny, or Discover Bank, or any of a million other credit card issuers.  Where did the money they "lent" you come from?  

They made their bed of oil soaked rags and crystaline oxidizer.  Let them sleep in flames.

I also believe in paying back debts, but only debts that resulted from a transfer of funds from a saver to a debtor.  All other forms of debt are invalid.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 01:15 | 3725892 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And those who racked up big purchases at JCPenney, etc. via their credit cards?  You are OK with letting them (customers) default?  Some of them bought in bad faith, with no intention of paying their bills.  As those creditors lose some money, we eventually pick up that tab as customers...

I do recognize that credit issuers are in many cases absolute scum.  And I have no problem with, say, Corzine, sleeping in flames.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:27 | 3725942 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Have them pay back the principal.  But thats it.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:27 | 3725943 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Or even 30 cents on the dollar of the principal.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 04:16 | 3725976 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Live simply.

A sure path to wealth and ease of mind.

Always follow the first and foremost rule of personal finance;

"Neither a lender nor a borrower be."  It takes your time, effort, energy and conviction, to gather wealth that has been paid for in full, without being encumbred by anything or anybody.

To remain fully solvent, is to remain fully liquid. By all means, use the systems credit option for ease of purchase or proof of credit 'worthiness', but after playing on their dollar for 21 days, pay it down fully upon being billed.

Where ever possible pay cash, barter, trade, or a combinztion of these when purchasing. Remain debt free.  

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 09:43 | 3726192 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Not that I agree on sticking it to your creditors but, considering JCP probably bought the item they sold you for a dollar from Chinese labor and then turned around and sold it to you for 20, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them

They whole credit system encourages cheating, lying, stealing and eventually murder at every transfer point along the way. This is one good reason why a credit based system is fundamentally immoral. It rots people's ethics

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 10:25 | 3726233 tmosley
tmosley's picture

JCPenney CARD, not JCPenney PURCHASES.  If their card only worked at their store, then you should pay it back, as it is an extention of credit from saver (the store, who saved the capital required to produce the goods) to debtor.  But when you use it at the gas station, or at Walmart, or anywhere else, what is happening?  They are printing money to give to those stores, and expecting you to pay them back on said printed money with interest.  This means they are getting interest without savings, which is implicit theft (the victim being those who lose purchasing power by holding the printed currency).  Do enough of this, and the system falls apart, just as surely as if the theft was being carried out by marauders raiding highway travelers.  Further, the fact is that JCPenney is legally distinct from the issuer of their credit cards, so even purchases there aren't really loans from the store, but are created money.

The consequences of default on said JCPenney credit card are this: JCPENNEY Bank, Inc gets bailed out, or goes under and the debt is purchased by a third party.  JCPenney Stores, Inc is not effected, as they are seperated.  There is no effect on prices, because no capital has been lost.  Rather, it is allowing them to continue with their theft of interest which raises prices, not only at that store, but for everyone, everywhere.  

A third party purchaser of the debt at least brought savings to the table, though only a fraction of what was created and lent, but you didn't have a contract with them, and as such are under no obligation to pay them.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:53 | 3726357 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

DCRB, do you have a hideout in Peru?

Is it a good place for a hideout, as in can you buy land? My wife and I both speak espanol.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 15:18 | 3726689 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Sort of.  We have an import company there, room at the in-laws (short-term) and almost enough to buy a decent condo.  I would NOT recommend rural land until you have really checked it out, and I mean throroughly...

What I have been telling our lil ol Exfiltration Study Group is that anyone considering a country should pass a minimum of eight weeks there.  gmail me at my moniker for more info on our lil ol group, lakecity55...

FYI, "Gold Chip" last night (mine months).  :)

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 15:44 | 3726738 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Congrats!  ...again.  Is the 1 year chip platinum?  That's your favorite metal, I know. So you have incentive to trudge the road just a few more months.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 15:47 | 3726741 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

We wish..............................!!!!

Else, 52100 steel, precious to Bearings!

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:47 | 3725681 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Once in a Lifetime Opportunity to Buy Barrick Gold!(Motley Fool)

 

Baron Rothschild, who made a fortune after Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo, is credited with the saying: “The time to buy is when there is blood in the streets.” In more recent times, Warren Buffett expressed a similar sentiment when he opined: “Be greedy when others are fearful.” These snippets of market wisdom have never been truer than now when you consider the total collapse of gold mining stocks. In my opinion, we currently have a once-in-a-lifetime buying opportunity to purchase Barrick Gold  at an incredible discount.

 

Full [interesting] article here at the Fool:

http://beta.fool.com/drdreport/2013/07/05/once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity...

 

I had to add some today...it's too low right now so why not diversify a little?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:02 | 3725800 tmosley
tmosley's picture

A fool and his paper were parted before he even bought it.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:51 | 3726352 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

I am sticking with the one mid-tier Ag I own, EXK.

It went way down, so I bought some moar.

I am going to buy some moar next week as soon as the market opens.

If WW3 starts, I would suggest going long in Uranium miners.

If TPTB had not stolen and locked up Tesla's scientific discoveries, we would be able to defeat them. I read a great bio on him, and his books and notes were stolen by the government (read, Banksters).

To think, we now live on a prison planet, and the facade is slowly falling apart. Grrrr!

Grrrrr again.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 14:07 | 3726570 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Did you ever read about Tesla's assistant/secretary, George Scherff?  The rabbit hole...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 14:30 | 3726617 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes.

Tesla loved America and was a man of The People.

His handlers, not so much.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 13:37 | 3726517 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Forget Barrick, check out the royalty companies. They have no risk since they are not mines but almost the same potential gains when the trend turns.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 08:14 | 3726084 Marco
Marco's picture

The manipulators own plenty of things which are naturally limited ... even more which are artificially limited.

The socialist make believe is just a veneer ... in the end they will own enough of everything and the make believe will disappear. You'll be bled from your gold in due time, you might bleed a little longer than the peons without gold but it won't matter in the end.

The rich get richer, the poor get poorer ... gold changes nothing about that equation.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:08 | 3725467 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

We all know Gold is going to Zero.....Once you admit that to yourself......the rest of life is EASY

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:22 | 3725512 therover
therover's picture

In an economy full of negatives, zero looks pretty good. 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:25 | 3725656 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

LMFAO!!!  You are blowing smoke through a sphinkter orifass...

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:24 | 3725742 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

What does it mean if the value is Zero Dollars? Did gold lose all value? Or?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 01:22 | 3725902 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

not the value.

the price.

as they say, an economist is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

some goldbugs do belive the paper (comex) price will go to zero,  before gold is libertated and true price discovery can begin.

i am sceptical, but, what do i know?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:01 | 3726275 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Madame Bovary, bitchez.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:13 | 3725483 impermanence
impermanence's picture

People, stop obsessing about gold.  Buy it, keep it, and shut up about it!!

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:18 | 3725500 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

what you said but with guns/ammo.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:39 | 3725561 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I have my 20 year charts on which crow is going to fly off the fence next if anyone wants to see them... [eh ~ fuck it, I'll just link it here ~ It's the 6th one down]...

~~~

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7wLkuQvz2UI/USO3ZiZgyKI/AAAAAAAAALg/nJpQHMqnee...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:43 | 3726341 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

And at least enough land for a small garden and some pullets to start with.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 12:31 | 3726412 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

+1 just for knowing what a 'pullet' is...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 01:25 | 3725904 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

Buy it, lose it in a boating accident, and shut up about it!!

fixed that for you!

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:14 | 3725485 Unknown Poster
Unknown Poster's picture

The historical comparisons are quite interesting, but it seem nowadays somebody is hell-bent on selling large quantities during low volume times. Obviously their market strategy needs some refinement, unless they have a very long term outlook, or an unlimited supply of 1s and 0s.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:51 | 3725688 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

They have lots of 1s and 0s, plenty of friends in high places, and don't even need to worry about delivery if it ever comes down to that.  I can only conclude from the June Comex reports and the total lack of inventory movement post June 28 that it's become an entirely non-delivery market now.  Based on what was reported as standing at the end of June, and the Comex' own rules, JPM should have run short about 80K oz, and the whole Comex, since they had to deliver something in the neighborhood of 30 tons, should have shown SOME FUCKING INVENTORY CHANGE this week.  But apparently not, apparently the Comex is now a 'play for fun' market, not a settlement market anymore (if it ever was).

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:31 | 3725945 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I think there is blatant manipulation going on, with a side of insolvency.  If you are getting margin calls, and you can't sell say... your pledged collateral... It is possible an institution such as a Wall St bank, hedge fund, etc would sell paper gold and silver.

But probably 75% manipulation to 25% margin calls, IMO.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:15 | 3725488 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

We heard this @$1700, $1600, $1500, $1400 etc.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:33 | 3725544 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

i think half the commentors are coin dealers that just want constant buying..

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:38 | 3725556 Diablo
Diablo's picture

or scam artists like max keiser, mike baloney, peter schiff, alex jones...etc, who are making a fortune off of dumb people who buy into the bullsh#t that they spew.

 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:41 | 3725570 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Schiff will turn a large fortune into a small one if you invest in EPCapital.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:42 | 3725574 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

ya,  and the ones that say they buy, buy every freaking week regardless of the price anyway..

so any talk of lows is bullshit since they say they buy all the time and never sell..  sheep sheep

 

 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:51 | 3725598 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

So Schiff, Willie, Sinclair etc etc etc all say buy buy buy regardless of price, and have been wrong for $500 plus now.

The teevee says king dollar and buy buy buy stocks regardless of price, every day.

Gundlach and Bill Gross say buy bonds, regardless of price, every day.

The real estate guys say buy real estate, every day, regardless of price.

So where to put money?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:56 | 3725610 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the bank of Sealy. 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:16 | 3725826 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Gold and CA$H are a great combination.  With lead and lead delivery devices.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:41 | 3726339 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

DCRB, what do you think of the euro-pacific fund?

good or bad if you are going to use some fiats?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 15:20 | 3726692 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Moi?  CA$H and (physical) gold only, unless you already have plenty of each.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:04 | 3725624 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

exactly.. you find out they are all 'selling their book' as they say.  All salesmen

No matter what you think to do, there are many flavors of a tailored message already chirping for you to justify your actions with.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:03 | 3725799 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Randolph Duke: This is not a meal, Valentine. We are here to try to explain to you what it is we do here. We are commodities brokers, William. Now, what are commodities?

~~~

- Commodities are agricultural products.

- Like coffee, that you had for breakfast.

- Wheat, which is used to make bread.

- Pork bellies, which is used to make bacon, which you might find in a bacon,lettuce and tomato sandwich.

Then there are other commodities like... frozen orange juice...and gold... Though, of course, gold doesn't grow on trees like oranges.
Clear so far?

Billy Ray Valentine: Yeah.

Randolph Duke: Good, William. Now, some of our clients are speculating that the price of gold will rise in the future. We have other clients who are speculating that the price of gold is going to fall. They've placed their orders with us and we buy or sell their gold FOR them.

Mortimer Duke: Tell him the good part.

Randolph Duke: The good part is that no matter whether our clients make money, or lose money, Duke & Duke get the commissions. Well, what do you think, Valentine?

Billy Ray Valentine: Sounds to me like you guys are a couple of bookies...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:18 | 3725829 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Nice, + 1

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 02:52 | 3725953 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

:-) You got it, Pontiac!

"It's always a good time to buy" - the timeless line you'll hear from realtors, car salesmen, bullion & coin dealers and brokers.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:40 | 3726336 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Well, hell let's start up the ZHDuke Broker Company.

All Mortimer and Randolph had to do was keep track of the buy/sell orders so they could get their commisssions.

As brokers, they obviously don't go "broke."

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:45 | 3725677 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Nobody advocates a cash position, so there's your answer.  :)

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:13 | 3725820 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I guess you missed the bail-in stuff.

There is no place to hide without short and perhaps medium term volatility.  Everything looks like a bubble ready to collapse, or a bidless market.  Rather, one must take the long term view.  Think about what you KNOW will have value in thirty years (hopefully long after all this nonsense is over).  There are a couple of answers, but only one of them is really any good.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 01:22 | 3725900 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

tmosley,

No, of course I didn't miss the bail-in stuff.  

But notice that I didn't say a cash position in a bank, either.  Look, I AM taking the long term view, and for that reason I believe in getting a return OF your principle rather than risking everything to get a return ON your principle.  It is the least popular strategy, but it has worked for me.  It's what the vast majority of people should be doing, although they won't.

By the way, you didn't mention your one good answer of what you KNOW will have value in thirty years.  Don't be cryptic...say what you think!  :)

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 10:42 | 3726247 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Except that by holding cash, you guarantee a 5-10% loss of purchasing power each year to inflation, and risk catastrophic loss if the currency issuers decide to play more games than they are currently playing with said currency.  Games like, say, declaring that $100 bills are no longer legal tender (because many foreigners hold huge hoards of hundos).

As for what will have value in thirty years, let us use the Socratic Method to come to an answer.  I would like you to think back 30 years, then 30 more years, then thirty more years than that, and so on, for the last, say, 3000 years.  Travel to any civilized place in your mind, and think about what you could hold in your possession that would have value.  Is it US dollars?  Bitcoins? Lumber?  Treasuries?  Cocoa beans?  Equities?  Precious metals?  Debt derivatives?  Farmland?  Rental properties?  Oil?

Yes, you are supposed to answer.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:10 | 3727315 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

tmos,

I haven't experienced a 5-10% loss of purchasing power by holding cash.  Just the opposite.  That argument is very popular, but quite weak (no offense to you personally).  Look, I know inflation has eroded away purchasing power, but people are free to change their behavior.  In an inflationary environment, you have to save more and spend less.  Simple as that.

It also depends on what you are purchasing.  I bought a million dollar sailboat last year for $300K.  I would not have been able to do that without a cash position.  

As for your Socratic Method exercise, I'm going to give you my best answer (having been trained in the Socratic Method in law school)....IT DEPENDS.  LOL.  All of those things you listed have been valuable at one time or another.  Travel back further in time, and salt, spices, and silk were the name of the game.  

I'm not here to put down anyone's investment strategy.  I was simply advocating a cash position.  I made good money in the stock market.  I made good money with gold.  And I've done really well having a cash position.  That is all.  :)

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:53 | 3725691 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Tequila.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:14 | 3725723 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Ok, that'll work, too.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:56 | 3725694 Tinky
Tinky's picture

"...and have been wrong for $500 plus now."

Really? They first began advocating buying when gold hit $1700-1900, and not before? You sure about that?


Sat, 07/06/2013 - 01:18 | 3725869 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Started reading Jim Willie around the time I started buying gold (seeing the inevitable collapse coming, perhaps a bit early).  That was at 400-something-dollars an ounce.  From what I've seen of his writing over the years when Mr. Willie makes an error in analysis (not a frequent event) he steps up, takes responsibility and applies the lessons learned.  

Everyone talks their book.  The important thing is knowing which one to believe and when/how to act on it.  Right now an interesting book worth examining is that of Jim Rogers who advocates buying assets with fiat, including metals and farmland.  At the same time, I'm not planning to have my family learn Mandarin Chinese.  Yet.  

BTW technical analysis of rigged markets is totally fucking ridiculous.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 01:21 | 3725898 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Jim Willie writes very interesting stuff, but he can be wrong (Bron Suchecki of the Perth Mint says that they do not get $2000 / oz selling kilo bars to Asia).  He may be wrong from time to time, but he is one of the most fun guys to read.

***

I agree re TA in rigged markets.  I wonder how long that has been true re gold?  A few years ago, a friend (good at TA) told me that gold charts never "spoke" to him, he traded live cattle futures, hey it (seemed?) to work for him.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:32 | 3725911 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Agreed Do Chen.  I know of no human being, especially one who does analysis for a living, that isn't wrong at times.  The important thing is that he is honest and upright in admitting it.  

On the matter of physical premiums, I'm sure that they are volatile and variable now.  How much would some be willing to pay to avoid the problems COL Klink describes below when buying in large quantity in Asia?

TA in my simple way of thinking about it is trying to capture market psychology in graphic form to make predictions about the future.  When the current behavior matches past psychology, all is clear.

There are some things we know happen regularly in paper gold market (and have for years) like the month end contract rollover where the spot price decays and strengthens soon after with a fair degree of predictability.  Also the spot gold price often gets hit in conjunction with unemployment reports or Fed communications.  None of these things are about market psychology yet to the extent that the paper market still influences pricing in the physical market these "regular distortions" can help a poor man playing along at home (without the benefit of insider info) to enhance the effectiveness of his periodic investments in "Armageddon Insurance".   

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:36 | 3725762 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Uh, give it to me?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 09:52 | 3726201 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

"So where to put money?"

Buy a set of ear plugs

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 09:54 | 3726205 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Too bad we couldn't invest in government. We'd make a fortune

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 13:58 | 3726523 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

or scam artists like max keiser, mike baloney, peter schiff, alex jones...etc, who are making a fortune off of dumb people who buy into the bullsh#t that they spew.

 

Those people are not scam artists, they are just not as ignorant as you are. People like you only look at the short term corrections, and ignore the fact that great gains have already been made before the correction not to mention the gains that will be made after.

Every secular bull market has a few healthy corrections. As long as you hold and buy the dips you lose nothing.

So actually the scam artists are the people pushing stocks and/or spreading lies, people like you.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:35 | 3725551 Diablo
Diablo's picture

nah, man. THIS time its different.

gold, bitchez.

LOL

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 13:50 | 3726540 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

THIS time its different.

 

No it may be similar to the seventies, only much worse for the economy.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:20 | 3725505 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

yeah, yeah, yeah, i don't know why anyone bothers with the charts....its not gold that they are charting, its paper......

gold and silver, the actual stuff, totally different. demand is off the charts. 

buy it, take delivery, and keep your mouth firmly shut. 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:21 | 3725507 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

nobody here would sell at $1900 why bother mentioning until it crosses $2k?

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:17 | 3725647 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

please buy mine for 1900 right now.  I will sell, take the money, and use it all to buy at 1300 increasing my stack by 30%... 

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:37 | 3725554 Confundido
Confundido's picture

$1,180/oz will be retested this next week.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:05 | 3725710 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

We haven't seen the stock market tank yet. How much gold will get shook lose when the margin calls happen? Do any of the hedgies even have gold anymore? That's my biggest wondering about the bottom. There is a big deflationary crunch yet to come, better minds than mine might be able to say what it does to gold prices.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:20 | 3725834 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

+ 1

OK, Confundido, we'll be watching.  I am always interested when an informed person makes a flat prediction like that.  I got out of the prediction business, ah, because I was no good at it...

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:41 | 3725568 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

sure it's bottom'd, but who wants to wait a minimum of 3 months for delivery or perhaps even longer...

jus sayin

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:42 | 3725575 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Why do you guys say that -every dealer I know can get you as much gold as you want within a few days.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 05:34 | 3726000 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

They all say that, but when you order it takes them much longer to get it.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:54 | 3725601 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Tulving is taking forever to deliver the phyzz.  7 weeks and counting.  This was after his sales rep said it was in stock and would ship in a week. He'll never see my business again.  I recommend people stay away.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 21:54 | 3725607 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

don't you have local dealers?  tex precious metals is good.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:00 | 3725615 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Yep, too late for me.  Tulving won't issue a refund and won't say when it will ship.  Already filed a BBB report and will work with authorities next.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:02 | 3725620 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

good luck man. that sucks.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:06 | 3725629 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Thanks, fonz.  It'll be promptly lost in a boating accident.  I'd just like to see it for a few days.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:11 | 3725637 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

roll up on that place like Hermann Goering- now that fucker knew how to take delivery.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:13 | 3725639 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I would if I had a panzer division.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:17 | 3725642 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

the only way to roll- with a little“ Horst Wessel Lied“ blaring from the radio.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:20 | 3725652 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I was thinking more like flight of the valkyries.

The one of the reviewers in the link I posted (Tim Cook) had posted all the local PD and attorney general information.  Apparently since he JUST received his delivery, he removed all the information.

I'd avoid Hannes Tulving like the plague!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 00:23 | 3725837 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Colonel Klink, I too have heard other bad stories about Tulving, including a bankruptcy years ago (when in a similar business).  It sure would be nice to know WHO IS GOOD in delivery of physical bullion in the, say, 10 oz - 1 kg amounts.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 04:28 | 3725981 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

DoChen, I'm assuming you're talking Ag.  If not, that's a bit too rich for my blood if Au.  So far I've had pretty good experience with Apmex.  At least they seem to have what they say in stock and ship in reasonable timeframes.

He had a BK back in 1995 if I recall the facts correctly.  I've had a concern that he may be close this time due to how long it's been taking to ship but it is only speculation on my part.

My next step will be contacting the 5-oh and filing a report.  My brother's shipment took 7 weeks and I specifically asked about any delays in shipping.  I was told approximately 1 week.  I'll still reiterate my opinion of stating to steer clear of Tulving since they misrepresented themselves when I specifically asked about long ship times. Furthermore they still can't provide any shipping timeframes.  I've been shined on for 5 weeks now.

It costs less to keep your reputation than trying to buy it back.  His rep is crap to me now.  I'll be taking my business elsewhere.  I'd recommend the same to everyone else.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:17 | 3727210 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

Very good dealer and like to drive there as often as I can.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:15 | 3725640 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I'm not the only one having delivery issues with TULVING either.

http://golddealerreviews.com/reviews/gold-dealers/3-tulving

STAY AWAY!!

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 22:57 | 3725698 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Well, to be fair, most places seem to be having delivery issues, just some are honest about it and others not so much.  Guess that's what happens in a bear market, nobody wants it anymore, so the inventories all get sold out and then you can't.... fuck it, the current situation is so transparently fucked up and criminally out of balance and disconnected from reality that you can't even make up a bullshit sarcastic explanation for it.

Fri, 07/05/2013 - 23:06 | 3725711 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Agreed, I wouldn't have had as much of a problem if they had just been honest in their dealings.  We're not talking about just a few ounces here.  Lack of their ability to tell me when it may be shipped is the issue.  I've been told week after week it would go out soon.  It's deceptive in their business practice to say one thing to incent the order, then deliver 6 weeks later.

 

I'll be happy to give my honest opinion about my dealing this his company.  I would have went with Apmex and know in the future he'll NEVER see my business again.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:31 | 3726318 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Klink, you shall not go to the russian front.

Thanks for the link, it is the best I saw since I posted about some kind of review site.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!