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Boeing 777 Crashes In San Francisco (NBC: 2 Dead, Up To 70 Injured) - Live Feed

Tyler Durden's picture




 

UPDATE: NBC Reporting 2 Dead, *SF GENERAL HAS '10 TO 12' CRITICALLY INJURED FROM JET CRASH

Just over an hour ago an Asiana plane inbound from Seoul, South Korea, crash landed at San Francisco airport. Given the images below, it is a miracle no one is reported dead (among the 291 passengers and 12 crew). An eyewitness noted:

  • *AIRLINER TAIL HIT NEAR END OF RUNWAY, EYEWITNESS TELLS CNN,
  • *AIRLINER SPUN COMPLETELY AROUND ON LANDING, WITNESS TELLS CNN

As far as they know, NBC reports, the pilot made no distress calls prior to landing and Federal officials indicate no indication of terrorism. The San Francisco airport will be holding a press conference shortly.

Local NBC news is reporting that the plane appeared to power-up as it was landing short and its tail hit the seawall.

 

as the plane hit the seawall...

 

NBC Bay Area local news - live feed

View more videos at: http://nbcbayarea.com.

 

Facebook CEO Sheryl Sandberg was supposed to be on the flight, but choose United instead. She posted the following on Facebook:

Taking a minute to be thankful and explain what happened. My family, colleagues Debbie Frost, Charlton Gholson and Kelly Hoffman and I were originally going to take the Asiana flight that just crash-landed. We switched to United so we could use miles for my family's tickets. Our flight was scheduled to come in at the same time, but we were early and landed about 20 minutes before the crash.

Flight path of Flt #214 (via NYCAviation)

 

And this image tweeted by a passenger who walked away (h/t Samsung Exec David Eun @eunner)

 

(via @blumonsoon)

 

Video of the plane on fire (h/t @360KID Scott Traylor):

 

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Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:38 | 3726811 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Bullish for new underwear sales.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:40 | 3726817 Banksters
Banksters's picture

I'll bet a syrian/nkorean/iranian  terrist  did it.   KILL EM ALL.  Cough

 

Off to euroasia!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:46 | 3726826 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Apparently, that exploding battery issue has not been fixed.

Time to wear some Boeing shorts.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:58 | 3726846 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Is it the 777 that's called the "Screamliner" or is that the 787... I always seem to forget...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:12 | 3726879 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

They'll report The "Snowden" was on that plane.  Tragically one of the few that perished.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:24 | 3726894 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

A passenger musta had his iPhone on, causing plane electrical system total meltdown.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:38 | 3726909 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Passengers certain to die!... Airline Negligent!... THERE'S A SALE AT PENNEY'S!!!...

~~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJSgZYUnQn0

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:54 | 3726941 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

You bitches know what this means: WE NEED TO STRIP SEARCH EVERYONE FROM NOW ON!!!

Oh, yeah...And invade Iran to, um, prevent more accidents.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:58 | 3726944 resurger
resurger's picture

Boeing is ready to shortsqueeze everyone on Monday! Am sure.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:27 | 3727003 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

the photos are fake

usually after an incident like this, there is no debris. no bodies. 

only a 6-foot-wide and 2-foot-deep charred depression.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:39 | 3727024 malikai
malikai's picture

If it ends up being like BA38 and others, this tidbit may be interesting in the future, via wikipedia:

The report acknowledged that a redesign of the fuel system would not be practical in the near-term, and suggested two ways to lower the risk of recurrence. One was to use a fuel additive (FSII) that prevents water ice from forming down to ?40 °C. Western air forces have used FSII for decades, and although it is not widely used in commercial aviation, it is nonetheless approved for the 777. The report also suggested that, because low fuel flows are conducive to ice formation, airlines could make operational changes to lessen the risk of a blockage forming shortly before landing.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:01 | 3727062 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Quick, somebody get that Captain a chair on the Fed board!

Regards,

Cooter

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:35 | 3727132 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I was listening to the news as the story was just hitting.  They just CAN'T be bothered to check facts when they need to be first to report.  They said the plane flipped upside-down even though the photos clearly showed it right-side-up with the wings still attached.  Then they gave a few technical details about the 777 starting with "The 777 first entered service in 1974."  I thought, wait a minute, no it didn't- I think they're talking about the 707!  (I'm not an aviation kinda guy but even I knew that info was dead wrong.)

Then they read some other stuff about the plane's history in "crash incidents" that was also probably wrong AND, I strongly suspect, was pulled straight from a report on the Audi "unintended acceleration" kerfuffle from the 1980s.

I turned it off.  I figured I'd wait to read the story on ZH.  Probably a slightly better chance of getting some accuracy around here.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:09 | 3727198 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

The plane finally stopped and wound up facing 180 degrees from the direction of landing.  I suspect it spun and may have almost cartwheeled but I doubt it was ever inverted. Was Denzel the pilot? This is the second destroyed 777.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:34 | 3727235 flacon
flacon's picture

Fat finger. It's Waddel & Reed's fault.

Hey, we said "short the market", not "short the runway"!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:59 | 3727292 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Don't look at me. I was at home sitting quietly on my couch eating a Krispy Kreem Do-Nut reading an old Reader's Digest article about obesity.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 22:06 | 3727426 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

This is like a download completing 99.9% and then crashing at the last bit.

 

billionare sandberg uses miles? Joos.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 11:17 | 3728122 patb
patb's picture

3rd destroyed 777.

 

BA 38 in macnhester

 

one had a cockpit fire in egypt and was written off,  

 

now this

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 22:39 | 3727463 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

About that 707...

Since I flew from Sydney to Los Angeles in a 707 in 1969, I think your info about this plane is somewhat incorrect.

"Pan American World Airways began regular 707 service on October 26, 1958."

Sorry, i always had the year 1959 pegged as the year, but I was wrong, as well. This is probably due to watching an old 'Twilight Zone' episode...

The 777 started in the mid-90's, I think.

"The original 777-200 variant entered commercial service in 1995,"

I was correct on this one...

The pilot was coming in short, and saw his mistake at the last second. He powered up to full throttle, and the aircraft (with flaps extended to give maximum lift, and elevators at full climb, as is appropriate for a flare-out for a smooth landing) went 'nose-up', and the tail struck the runway approach apron. Subsequently, it broke off, and the aircraft pitched up at an extreme angle, and then belly-flopped on the runway, breaking all the landing gear, and slid out of control before skidding to a halt.

Chalk this one up to 'pilot error'.

The investigation will, of course, take months, and the lawyers and bureaucrats will battle it out in court, looking to place blame everywhere but where it is due (all the while collecting grundles of moolah).

Same old story...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQov8HpYzqg

The band's name IS, after all, AERO-SMITH!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:58 | 3727288 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

I read the Speedbird 38 link someone else posted and this does not appear to be the same situation , the failure on that crash was with those crappy Rolls Royce engines and a problem with ice in the fuel ,, NOT affecting Pratt or GE powered aircraft. The photos I've found of Ariana 777's do not show the RR logo on the engines.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 22:21 | 3727446 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

With all of the camera phones and youtubes WHERE IS THE LIVE FOOTAGE?

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 19:03 | 3729146 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

...a finely manicured lawn, and a passport.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 14:17 | 3728404 ImReady
ImReady's picture

Yes, and an unburned passport is sure to be found within hours.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:45 | 3727266 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Seems to me the news reports are accurate ,, dragging it in , applying power but apparently not TOGA , just enough to make the landing zone ... missed by 20 or 30 feet of altitude... Asiana's probably gonna get a new more fuel efficient plane to replace this one ... maybe a A350.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 02:40 | 3727797 SolarSystem1932
SolarSystem1932's picture

A Takeoff/Go-around switch (TO/GA) is a switch, on the autothrottle of modern large aircraft, with two modes, takeoff (TO) and go around (GA). The mode is dependent on the phase of flight; usually, on approach to land the autopilot will be set to approach mode, therefore if the TO/GA switch is pressed it will activate the Go Around mode of the Autothrottle; conversely, when take-off is set on the autopilot the switch activates Take Off mode of the Autothrottle.

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:02 | 3726855 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

If you hit tail down, well short of the runway, bad things will happen.

South Korean pilots had a bad reputation for years - poor cock pit communication because of odd formalized speech patterns and far too much deference to authority i. e. the captain.  Coming in that short on a clear day should have been pretty obvious.

Pilot error until proved otherwise.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:31 | 3726901 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Ditto Kiserhoff.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:32 | 3726902 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Excuse me!

Kaiserhoff!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:41 | 3726924 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Danke shein,  but it really doesn't matter.

I'll answer to, hey you.  Just ask my GF;)

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:32 | 3726903 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Snowden was on the plane. So now we can go back to fiat bunga bunga.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:54 | 3726940 resurger
resurger's picture

My guess too, pilot error, with an ILS approach very hard to crash, with windsheer the nose would have been hit.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:48 | 3727270 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Even on an ILS on they would have gone visual at DH. NOT windshear , they would not have recognized or reacted to it in time.. NOT A FACTOR.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 23:10 | 3727514 seek
seek's picture

ILS was out of service.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:13 | 3726949 malikai
malikai's picture

I don't know, could be bad attitude. But it seems similar to the 777 crash at LHR a couple years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38

EDIT: See below.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:33 | 3727009 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Agree.

Video after crash shows pretty clearly the tail section hit the seawall embankment as there is luggage and debri almost up to the water.

They are probably lucky they didn't land in the water or come down on the wings and fuel tanks or it would have been an immediate fireball.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:23 | 3727091 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Should've used a Rockwell Collins HUD. Or maybe they did.

What about the plane's computer... Did it not say "Pull Up, pull up, pull up!"?

Hopefully some joker did not replace 'Pull UP' with 'Pull OUT' in the latest SW rev.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:05 | 3727190 monkeyshine
monkeyshine's picture

Yeah what happened here? Came in too low, and the tail hit the sea wall?  Initial reports I heard on the radio were that the tail end "fell off" on final approach, but AFAIK there has never been a known catastraphic fusilage collapse like that.  The only thing close I can think of is that Hawaiian Air flight that had the top part of the front cabin torn open.  I'm guessing pilot error, coming in too low, tail end hits the sea wall.  Very bizarre.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 23:24 | 3727526 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Crash in Rockaway, NY about 2002 due to tailwaing faikure if memory serves me.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 19:25 | 3729183 monkeyshine
monkeyshine's picture

You are correct, the rudder and verticale stabilizer broke off and fell into the ocean on that one. And there was an Alaska Air coming from Cabo to Seattle or SFO that had a tail bolt break, the plane lost its stabilizer, flew upside-down over the pacific ocean before diving in.  But they didn't fall off the jackscrew just got stipped and the pilots lost ability to stabilize the plane.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 22:45 | 3727480 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Poor 'cock pit communication':

'You like this?'

'No, it hurts.'

'I'm gonna cum!'

'You fucking bastard!'

'I love you.'

'Leave me alone, you prick!'

'C'mon, baby, one more time...'

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 23:13 | 3727517 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+1
I read an article years ago or something. Maybe WSJ. Korean Air was scary due to the exact things you mentioned. Agree with you and Scotty. He came up short and pulled up at the last second then buried the tail. If anything, kudos to Boeing because only a few people died. That is a big plane and fortunately the few was low due to a landing.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:53 | 3726827 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

God bless all injured. I hope they will survive and be well to live long lives!

It looks like the plane landed too early, right on edge of the runway. The weather here in the SF Bay is perfect - clear sky and minor wind - all normal.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:55 | 3726836 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Soon to be released on AP -- official statements:

Boeing:  "pilot error."

NSA:  "it would have been worse had we not been monitoring everything and alerted officials to respond."

Obama:  "Boeing didn't build that plane."

Bush:  "No one could have seen this coming."

Cheney (from his bunker):  "We must act immediately with a strong military response to prevent another crash."

Kerry:  "hey look honey, a whale."

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:03 | 3726866 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

LTER -  I am with you. Very funny - the new American way to spin the news.

I am not aviation expert but just loooking at the early videos showing the wreckage it is either the pilot error (too early touchdown) or some sort of malfunction that made the plane drop altitude too quickly just before touchdown. Not weather related as I can tell you it is a perfect summer day here...

I know this airport very well - landed there tens of times: many times during heavy fog or strong wind. They frequently land very close to the edge of the runway... 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:17 | 3726889 duo
duo's picture

A 777 almost landed short at Heathrow (IIRC) due to crappy fuel.  Can't rule that out.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:15 | 3726956 malikai
malikai's picture

Way too similar. See below.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:37 | 3727137 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

Not true. The fuel was fine, but ice crystals formed, blocking the fuel lines. The fuel essentially froze due to colder than normal  conditions and a minimum fuel flow due to a long idle descent. There are supposed to be heaters to correct this. Rolls Royce had to re-design the fuel heating sytem because of that crash.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:22 | 3727340 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Probably the case here as well. Mark Twain once said that the coldest winter he'd ever seen was the summer he spent in San Francisco.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:17 | 3726890 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Could be a combination -- pilot error and equipment.   

As an aside, I was too quick with the jokes.  Initially thought there were no casualties.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 22:37 | 3727467 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

I don't think anyone took it that way.

Your previous post will become legend (I lost another keyboard though).

In this sooooooofuckedupworld I, for one, appreciate the sarcasim laced humour... taste full or otherwise.

Rock on LTER!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:50 | 3727042 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Same here, I've flown in and out of SFO lots of times, it's an awesome airport as far as airports can go. That landing always scares the shit out of me, the strip starts just a couple hundred yards from the water...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:10 | 3726970 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 

Building a sea wall across the runway was an Un-American activity.....

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:16 | 3726979 freet0pian
freet0pian's picture

I hereby award you the title of Big Boss for compressing 12 years of absurdity into one ZH post.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:28 | 3727351 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Krugman: The plane wasn't landing fast enough.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 23:04 | 3727509 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

More 'official' A.P. statements...

MSM (cutting to helicopter shot of a former strip-mine in Pennsylvania):

"It looks like the plane buried itself in the ground. Obviously a terrorist attack! Osama Bin Laden...OOPS, wrong decade..."

BLOOMBERG: "If only the crazed passenger in row 59 hadn't had a gun,..."

McClatchy: "The design flaws that allow a pilot to make an error like this have been known for decades. All the more reason to put all aircraft under computer control!"

'OFFICIAL WHITE HOUSE SOURCE': "Obviously, the president didn't know about it, until he saw it on CNN this morning."

KRUGMAN, KUDLOW, and BUFFETT: "At this time, I am advising all my investors to short Boeing, as well as any airport. I also put all South Korean financials on a watch list, as well. Hey, just 'covering my shorts'..."

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 06:19 | 3727871 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Jackson:  "Where did all the MuthaFsckin' snakes go?"

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:14 | 3727088 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Somebody depending on the glide slope that was inop?
One of the chapters in the book "outliers" is about the Koreans and their horrible safety record due to not questioning authority.
It didn't surprise me that it was Korean.

Any chance they starved the engines of fuel? Yep.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:46 | 3727154 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

Also for Asiana--think of all the free advertising they are getting.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 11:56 | 3728157 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I know I would have shit my pants if I was on that plane.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:42 | 3726819 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i dont mind flying.....its takeoff and landing i hate !!!!!!!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:59 | 3726850 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Just fell short of the runway, that's what that is.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:01 | 3726954 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

It was actually a pretty good landing. He didn't miss by that much. Next time he'll do better.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:33 | 3727234 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

ahhh

the Monica L. excuse

 

good one Bill

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:18 | 3727332 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Nah. Maxwell Smart!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:02 | 3727298 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

As long as #takeoffs eq #landings you're doing alright ...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:43 | 3726821 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

For a while S. Korea-based airlines used to have a pretty poor safety record. Glad to see there were no fatalities

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:02 | 3726833 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

RIP

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:13 | 3726977 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Shoulda flown Quantas...

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:58 | 3726847 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

2 dead

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:44 | 3726823 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

 

 

Rumor: US government officials thought Snowden was aboard.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:57 | 3726842 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

Yes. He was reportedly in the missing tail.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:06 | 3726966 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

 

 

All kidding aside, I hope everyone gets home safe and sound.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:46 | 3726824 B2u
B2u's picture

Where is homeland security?  Why didn't they prevent this?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:50 | 3726829 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Those people who exited with their carry-on luggage should be put in jail. The plane landed short.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 23:02 | 3727499 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Agreed, for the safety of the Childen of San Francisco the DHS should have 'Lit 'em up' has they ran for the terminal in a less that orderly manner.

Making such a decision, on your own, without the either the pre-approval and/or being marshalled by .GOV AUTHORITY figures is clearly Terrorism by Action. They should have allstopped, stood in an orderly line and calmly waited to be processed by Customs.   They should filled out their arrival cards while they waited.

For all we know these Korean's could have had non-declared food on their person and have taken the opportunity to smuggle in some Kimchi.

The Government must do something.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:55 | 3726838 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Was there a DHS drill scheduled for today? Because that usually explains a lot.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:56 | 3726839 monopoly
monopoly's picture

As a retired airline captain maybe the airspeed was too low on the final approach over the numbers, (landing entry) and the tail smashed the runway first since the plane ran out of lift, ripping it off. Control lost but brought the airplane to a stop as it tore apart and caught fire as both fuel lines and hydraulic lines snapped and mixed with the friction of metal on concrete. Airplane stopped, deploy slides and off they go.

No one killed. THAT is amazing and wonderful.

And sorry, no terrorists, long term plan, a new war or some radical nut trying to blow up the plane. Just...a mistake. What do they say.....Shit happens.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:08 | 3726872 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

I think your explanation fits better than mine below. This aircraft is CATIIIB capable, but I don't know if the airline uses it. To early for flare, so he either totally undershot or was to far back on power.

After seeing the horizontals and vertical laying so far back from the rest... that must of been one hell of a smack.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:20 | 3726884 Taku
Taku's picture

Thoughts to the passengers and crew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRgeSoRplmQ

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:04 | 3726960 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Many times we would use all the tools, then if nice wx. disconnect all and hand fly the last few moments. Gotta have some fun. 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:21 | 3727103 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Cat iii approaches need the full ils including localized, glides lope, dme and marker beacons. Also radar altimeter on board and certified aircraft for cat iii approaches.

More than likely pilot error. Got too low and to slow. Maybe got complacent with the autopilot and had it engaged even though the ils was down. Radar altimeter cross checks with marker beacons should have prevented that. I think they may have lost power when they fell short. He may have realized the autopilot was letting him get too low yet couldn't spool up the engines in time. We will see.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:24 | 3727345 whisperin
whisperin's picture

I think the copilot flew the approach and got behind.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:02 | 3726957 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

An alternate explanation is that they had set up for an autocoupled approach with autoland, with either mechanical failure or glideslope / localizer interference.  Two accidents come to mind, Turkish at Schipol (autothrottle failure) and Signapore at Munich (localizer signal interference from a departing aircraft in CAT I conditions).  Many operators routinely do autolands without advising ATC / tower and the ILS critical area's remain  unprotected.  Thats why I leave my autolands to the simulator unless it is genuine CAT II, relatively rare in my part of the world.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:17 | 3726982 malikai
malikai's picture

BA38. Same equipment, similar outcome. I'd be looking there first.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:17 | 3727095 NaN
NaN's picture

My understanding is that autoland (and auto everything) is gaining popularity to reduce fuel expenses. 

Unfortunately, the self-adjusting nature of the systems masks problems and when inputs get sufficiently out of range, the control systems give up, passing control back to the humans who have a few seconds to fix the problem during a landing. It is hard to imagine that a pilot would maintain sufficient vigilance if everything works fine 99% of the time.

(On the other hand, IF the automated systems have a better safety record overall, then the vigilance problem might be mere noise.)

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:56 | 3726840 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Hand flown. Below glideslope. Corrected by nose up with power.... to late.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:13 | 3726881 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yup.

 A mechanical problem could have contributed, but they were too low and slow.  Bad combination in a heavy.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:51 | 3726934 resurger
resurger's picture

Wind Sheer?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:13 | 3726962 malikai
malikai's picture

Low and slow? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38

The first symptoms of the fuel flow restriction were noticed by the flight crew at 720 feet (220 m) and 2 miles (3.2 km) from touchdown, when the engines repeatedly failed to respond to a demand for increased thrust from the autothrottle. In attempting to maintain the instrument landing system (ILS) glide slope, the autopilot sacrificed speed, which reduced to 108 knots (200 km/h) at 200 feet (61 m).[1] The autopilot disconnected at 150 feet (46 m), as the co-pilot took manual control.[4] Meanwhile, the captain reduced the flap setting from 30 degrees to 25 degrees in order to decrease the drag on the aircraft and stretch the glide.[4]

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:52 | 3727166 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Heard one witness watching from a  balcony say  the plane was shaking as it was coming in to land ... like wobbling. Also apparently tower told cockpit that emergency vehicles were on the way.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:50 | 3726933 resurger
resurger's picture

Whatever the fuck happened to ILS approach, this is no Kai tak.

My guess he disconnected AP before approaching the RW. with ILS no room for error, this could be a Visual Landing.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:16 | 3726981 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Shoulda checked the Radar Range...

~~~

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEywGpIt0vw

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:22 | 3726992 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

One of the funniest movies ever.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 12:00 | 3728162 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Don't worry. I speak jive.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:56 | 3726841 shankster
shankster's picture

Probably just a fuel tank explosion just like TWA flight 800.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:10 | 3726856 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The Government said it was a fuel tank explosion... the conspiracy nutjobs and 200 eyewitnesses said it was a missile...

I however say they are both right.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:36 | 3726906 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

You effing idiot ... most of those WITNESSES that night were DRUNK.

 

Talk to the pilots in the airlane BEHIND TWA800 if you want THE TRUTH.

 

They didn't see a missile BTW.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:32 | 3727011 General Decline
General Decline's picture

"Talk to the pilots in the airlane BEHIND TWA800 if you want THE TRUTH"

Oh, you mean other pilots who would like to keep their jobs and their pensions? Yeah, those are credible witnesses.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:10 | 3727074 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

Oh, another effing idiot ... glad you poked your head up ...

 

And NEVER MIND this kind of thing would be a secret TOO BIG TO KEEP.

 

You guys and your loads of crap. 

 

All you've got are loads of drunks on party barges and on the beach.

 

That's it. 

 

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:21 | 3727106 General Decline
General Decline's picture

And you got pilots who don't care to go on unemployment and the MSM? Who pays you to reinforce the status quo?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:25 | 3727112 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

-1 for me and for you.

 

For you, b/c you are an idiot. And for me b/c I tried to argue with an idiot.

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:57 | 3726844 shankster
shankster's picture

Why didn't TSA stop this?....Why?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:58 | 3726848 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Not good. My thoughts go out to the crew.

This is another bad mark on Korean/Asiana, that have really cleaned their act up and are safe airlines with great service, hot KR CC too.

My guess looking at the pics is they somehow got low and slow on a nice sunny san fran day. You come in over the bay, and it can be a bit of a carrier approach, especially at night.. "Hey, lets take the autopilot and autothrust off and shoot a visual."
I hope it wasn't something so simple, but you would be suprised in aviation how simple big accidents are.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:11 | 3727202 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

The F-105 was one of the best, most versatile designs, EVER. Saved many a life, including mine - you know where.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 23:36 | 3727538 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

+1 for recognizing the Thunderchief/Thud!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:59 | 3726851 shankster
shankster's picture

I can fly without ever leaving the ground.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:01 | 3726858 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Now that I like shankster. lol

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:01 | 3726852 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

By the way it's funny how the connected people tend to miss flights like this. Kind of like when mark wahlberg missed his flight on 9/11. He talked about it on the Tavis Smiley show but that thing is heavily scrubbed from the internets.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:41 | 3726916 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

Seize Mars: "By the way it's funny how the connected people tend to miss flights like this. "

 

Speak for yourself only loose cannon; Barbara K. Olson is no longer with us because of that flight into the Pentagon ... DO YOU KNOW WHO her husband was?

 

" He talked about it on the Tavis Smiley show "

 

 

3rd rate, no, MAKE THAT 5th rate show with a 5th rate host.

Da truth.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:56 | 3727048 General Decline
General Decline's picture

"Flight into the pentagon"

Lol.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:16 | 3727084 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

" General Decline " - kinda sums up what's happening to the level of education and competance and ability to reason here in AMERIKA.

 

Thanks for the contribution.

 

 

Meanwhile the number of moonbats and mindless conspiracy theorists like your self who can't do anything but breed, multipy, and f*ck over each other's weak useless minds ...

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:26 | 3727116 General Decline
General Decline's picture

The most heavily secured building in the world and they can't do better than two frames of footage that shows nothing that looks like a commercial aircraft? And it was flying 500+mph at sea level? And I'm the one with the weak, useless mind?

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:32 | 3727126 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

Hello idiot.

 

Forget about that phone call made by a passenger aboard that craft to her husband, the Solicitor General at the time?

 

Forgot about all the witnesses in their cars on the beltway there?

 

How about all light poles that were knocked over?

 

You are proving to be an even BIGGER Idiot than first thought.

 

Idiot.

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:50 | 3727160 General Decline
General Decline's picture

What about the unbroken windows where the "wings and engines" would have impacted. The engines are the densest and hardest part of an aitcraft.
And you never answered to the fact that a 757 cannot attain the velocity they claimed id had at that low of altitude. Get back to me when you've taken and passed a fluid mechanics class.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:26 | 3727221 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

uh, airplane that hit the Pentagon. Right....

What hit the pentagon, and both towers, was one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM

The videos that were shown of plane 2 hitting tower 2 were fakes, and now the question is: what did tey do with / to al the people?

http://septemberclues.info/

Thos airplanes could not do what they were shown doing. Impossible.

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 11:50 | 3728151 malikai
malikai's picture

So, you're saying that the video of the planes hitting and the eyewitnesses were all fakes?

Can you explain to me how a 14ft cruise missile with a H/E warhead can blow up like 11,500+ gallons of kerosene and leave damage shaped like a 757/767?

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 12:17 | 3728177 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Every single video made of a plane impacting the building was shot by a person who was later found out to be a "media professional." Every. One.

There was no damage "shaped like an airplane." That's part of the problem here.

Just one slight problem, also: the speeds that the plane are shown moving are impossible. Can't do it. The physics are wrong. The whole thing was a fucking video trick. Seriously, if you haven't, please invest an hour in looking at the main video on www.septemberclues.info ; it will pretty much blow your mind.

They blew up the buildings with cruise missiles. Then on TV they showed an animated airplane superimposed over the missle strike. The problem is they fucked up some stuff on live tv. Note that they will no longer show the stuff of tv any more.

They've also got "crisis actors" and everything.

Anyways just please check out.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:26 | 3727222 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Wait, I'm a "loose cannon?" That's what she said!

Sun, 07/07/2013 - 12:23 | 3728185 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Yes, Tavis Smiley runs a fifth rate show. That's true. I assume that when you typed "Da truth" you meant that as a racist affectation of the guy's accent. Whatever. It doesn't really matter that Tavis runs a high or low quality tv show.

Mark Wahlberg was on his show, and said that he backed out of his reservation on flight 11 from Boston to LA. Now you can't find the video on the web. But I saw it.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:59 | 3726853 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

No pic of the tail?

Did it turn into dust?

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:02 | 3726861 shankster
shankster's picture

Si' into cosmic dust.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:47 | 3726930 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

DollarMenu: " No pic of the tail? "

 

Check the area inward of the seawall; also known as the blast pad area, overrun area or stopway.

 

Don't you see what the rest of see? 

 

 

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:01 | 3726952 CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

Tail cone strewn across displaced threshhold, rudder and elevators sitting on displaced threshhold, main gear sitting near the numbers for 28-lefyt.

Tail strike, probably pilot error.

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 16:59 | 3726854 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Hey, I have an idea!  Let's make cars that drive themselves!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:13 | 3727206 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Yeah, people aren't helpless enough yet.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:12 | 3726862 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Edit -- two dead.  I'll quit with the jokes.  

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:09 | 3726871 jomama
jomama's picture

clicked through this article looking for liberal bashing posts, left disappointed.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:10 | 3726877 shankster
shankster's picture

Cap'n I'm given her all she's got!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:12 | 3726880 b_thunder
b_thunder's picture

Billionaire Sandberg uses miles?  What 'snext?  She tells her personal shopper to use more grocery coupons?

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:06 | 3726965 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I have to say that explanation is a bit odd.   But this doesn't smell like a fore-knowledge situation.   My guess is that the real explanation had something to do with this flight not having enough of the good champagne or something else she didn't want to admit that would make her look like a douche. 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:20 | 3726888 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

And yet flying is still safer than practicing neo-Keynesianism or Monetarism.

"Ladies and gentleman, uuh welcome aboard US FedAir flight uuuh QE4Eva, uuuh this is your captain speaking, just wanted to uuuuh remind you this will be my uuuh first non-simulated flight."

Update: I won't be rescinding this joke, because what Captain Ben is doing, make no mistake, is deadly. And quite intentional, unlike, I will presume, this plane crash.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:20 | 3726892 virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

Amazing it doesn't happen more often.. these flying tubes of sheet metal.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:26 | 3726895 blindman
blindman's picture

I give great credit and praise to this pilot for
what he/she? did, it seems with only two fatalities.

as an aside, there should be no question of terrorism
here as all the plane parts remain and are recognizable as
belonging to the plane that took off.
since 9/11 the standard has become, the indicator, when there
is an air traffic disaster and terrorist are accused, the parts
of the plane are not identified or recoverable at all.
has there been one part of a plane from the alleged four involved
in 9/11 that has been identified as belonging to the plane that
took off on that Tuesday morning?
.
so one might conclude that the "terrorists" have mysterious ways
of covering up, disappearing, this vital evidence that can lead
to discovery of the source of the crime, if crime enters into
the cause of the disaster that is.
.
it appears there is no such indication in this current disaster/ burning
plane situation.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:00 | 3727058 blindman
blindman's picture

is it true that you hate humanity for it's freedom?
could be.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:12 | 3727085 blindman
blindman's picture

george carlin Airport Security
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeHCgzk99lI
.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:55 | 3727253 blindman
blindman's picture

it has become evident to me that there are at least
4 imbecilic shitheads reading this shit lacking the
proper and demanded credentials to word up and say
something of significance, preferring to merely
push a stupid fucking button; this, by the way, perfectly
reflects the significance of the act and the state of consciousness
of perfect suffering thereby so enjoyed.
since I do love crude language , in the figurative sense,
you can eat me you spineless and meaningless maggots.
there, my 2 minutes of hate speech!
we have heard the term fight club, but now with little colored
flags? I want to talk to Bob English, god damn it !
..
make it 5 and counting ....

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:38 | 3726908 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

This is an extremely unusual type of crash for a commercial plane to be involved in.  Usually commercial jets of this approximate size disappear 50 or so meters into the ground never to be seen again.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:26 | 3727001 Kiss My Iceland...
Kiss My Icelandic Ass's picture

 

 

For all we know, the pilot may have made a miracle landing. Let's wait and see.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:15 | 3727050 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Doubt it; clear weather and he came in too low ....

 

Unusual nose-high attitude with feet of sea level, followed by a tail strike?

 

This screams PILOT ERROR.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:49 | 3727158 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

Yes, it does. But BA38 looked like pilot error, but that turned not to be the case. So let's not jump yet.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:53 | 3727278 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Hey, just like your personality screams ASSHOLE.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:39 | 3726917 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Asians are the worst drivers. Almost went off the runway twice on China Airways flights. Scary

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:14 | 3726975 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Son of Britch!  SHLIT!!

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 21:57 | 3727410 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

"...on China Airways flights"  says it all. China /= all asians. Did my flight training at Singapore Airlines flight college and there were some Damn fine Singaporean Pilots that would run rings around almost anyone.

FWIW a lot of Chinese airlines SOP's make it mandatory for the pilots to use all available automation whenever possible. No exceptions. This is also the case with India (and if you want to talk about dodgey Pilots well India takes the cake - very heirarchical). Not sure about the US but Australian/Singapore/British Pilots would go visual asap on a fine clear day. I mean really - ILS on a fine a day?? what happens if something goes wrong on a *bad* day. Need to keep the hand flying skills fresh.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:39 | 3726919 worbsid
worbsid's picture

It is very possible the tail hit the sea wall and pieces flew up to the end of the runway.  They were probably going 125Kts about there.  The slam-down probably took out the landing gear and the belly rub caused a tank to catch fire.  I am sure we will have all the gory details with the FAA investigation.  Sorry bout the dead and critical but "It happens".  Oakland sea wall has claimed a few also.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:40 | 3726922 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I would not want to be that pilot.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 17:47 | 3726931 resurger
resurger's picture

Fuck i always thought 777 is a good aircraft! DAMN!

 

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 18:58 | 3727053 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Here, can I say it, and make you happy? "Asian pilot"

There.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 19:20 | 3727099 resurger
Sat, 07/06/2013 - 20:12 | 3727204 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yes, sometimes the inner kamikazi takes over.

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